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The Situation Room
President Bush's Immigration Plan Stalled On Capitol Hill; New Developments In Trial Of Zacarias Moussaoui; Mary Landrieu Interview; Massachusetts Lawmakers Approved Healthcare Reform Plan To Extend Coverage To 500,000 Uninsured; Watchdog Group Calling Attention To Pork Barrel Spending
Aired April 05, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, thank you very much.
And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington, where the Senate is struggling over ways to let illegal immigrants become legal. President Bush calling for quick action right now. But how much political capital does he have left on Capitol Hill?
It's 3:00 p.m. in Louisiana. Will the levees hold when the next hurricane hits? Democratic Senator Mary Landrieu threatening to hold all administration nominations unless the president requests billions of dollars more for rebuilding. I'll have a one-on-one interview with the senator.
And should your tax dollars go to support a teapot museum? How about water-free urinals? It's time for the annual survey of seemingly frivolous spending. We'll take a look inside the pork barrel.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now on Capitol Hill, the president's immigration plan is stalled. It looks like it could be going nowhere. Efforts underway to see what can be done. There are enough proposals and counter proposals to make heads spin in the U.S. Senate. But the real problem could be the president's lack of political capital right now.
Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is standing by.
But let's go to Capitol Hill right now. Dana Bash has the latest -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the name of the game here on Capitol Hill is to try to find that magic solution, the magic compromise, if you will, that will garner the 60 votes that are needed to find an issue where, with regard to the guest worker program, that can actually get off the Senate floor.
And all day long, key senators have been going in and out of the Senate majority leader's office in intense negotiations trying to find that compromise. And they say they're close. And right now what the talks are centered on is the idea of treating the 11 million to 12 million illegal workers differently, depending on how long they've been in this country.
But although they say they're close with anything, sometimes what you know is going on in private seems quite different in public. And because the emotions are so high over this particular issue and the political stakes are so high what senators on both sides of the aisle are trying to do is position themselves just in case they don't get to a compromise.
Let's listen to what happened on the Senate floor just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: The immigration system is broken, and yet the Democrats today don't have the courage to address the problem, to fix the problem. They show a lack of courage, I think, convictions and leadership to fix the problem. And you fix the problem by doing something -- not coming with just a solution and say this is it, take it or leave it. It's to allow us to have an amendment proposed.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), NEVADA: My friends, the majority can move forward with a bill that will fix our borders and reform the immigration system, or continue to stonewall this. It is in the eyes of the beholder, Mr. President, who's stonewalling it. I think what we have here is a compromise. I think we have a real bipartisan opportunity to fix our immigration system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: So there you hear both the leaders, the Republican and Democratic leaders, on the Senate floor just a short while ago, talking about the fact that each of them thinks that their position is the right one, mostly when it comes to the procedure.
What's going on right now is that Republicans are furious because they say the Democrats won't let them debate amendments that they say that many in their very divided caucus want to talk about and vote on. Meanwhile, the Democrats say they have something that they call a compromise and a guest worker program that passes Senate Judiciary Committee. And they say they're fine with that.
Again, that's what's going on in public but privately behind the scenes intense negotiations to try to come up with one particular guest worker program. Again, they say they're very close. And the pressure is on. They're probably going to be here late into the night trying to figure out if that's doable. At least by tomorrow morning there will be the very first test vote on this guest worker program -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Dana, thank you very much. Dana Bash with the latest from the Hill. The president is calling on Congress to come up with an immigration reform plan as quickly as possible. But is anybody listening to the president these days?
Let's turn to our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, very interesting, the Bush administration is really in a state of suspended animation, if you will. The president is trying to use what political capital he does have to push forward his domestic agenda. We saw that on immigration reform today as well as health savings accounts.
And really, I guess, the big question is whether or not he can even achieve that. I mean, the president, even before getting aboard Marine One, went before the cameras and essentially said I want these three things. I want an immigration bill with a guest worker program -- that one is against amnesty. And in a statement yesterday saying no automatic path to citizenship.
There are supporters of course of that Senate Judiciary Committee's bill who says well that's the kind of legislation we have here. There is no automatic path. It is an earned one. So perhaps there is an opening there of negotiating with the White House.
The other point today of course he was in Bridgeport, Connecticut, pushing forward his health care initiatives. But, Wolf, I have to tell you, the Republicans that I have spoken to say they don't think there is very little appetite for either one of these issues before those midterm elections -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Is there a sense that even if the Senate comes up with something it would be acceptable in the House? Because they would have to have a joint House-Senate conference committee and then something would have to be worked out, the consensus by both houses, if you will. Is there a sense that that is doable at the White House?
MALVEAUX: Well, at this point they're not very optimistic about it. The president keeps saying, I want a comprehensive bill here. He lays out the qualifications. But, you know, I mean, they are not very close when it comes to the House and the Senate on reaching that compromise.
And there's still a lot of divisions within the Republican Party. You're talking about the religious community, the conservative Republicans, that big fear that they're going to lose the Hispanic vote as well. They are far from a resolution at this time.
BLITZER: Suzanne, thank you very much.
A dozen years ago, the political tide turned on Capitol Hill, sweeping Democrats out of office as Republicans came surging in. Will we witness something similar this year but in reverse?
Let's bring in our senior political analyst Bill Schneider. He is looking at this question -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, there's a lot of buzz in Washington about a tidal wave coming, not from the Potomac River, from the Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Many experts believe midterm elections are a referendum on the president even though he's not on the ballot.
STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: The midterms are likely to be much more referendum on George W. Bush, the war in Iraq, other news not on delay.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush's latest job approval rating is 36 percent, 10 points lower than President Clinton's in November 1994, when the Republican tidal wave hit. Is there a Democratic tidal wave coming? Unlikely, Republicans say. Why?
For one thing, there are fewer vulnerable incumbents these days. House Republicans have built levees by using the reapportionment process to create safe districts and protect themselves from a tidal wave. Back in 1994, Republicans needed to gain 40 seats to take over the House. This year, Democrats need to pick up only 15 seats. They don't need as big a tidal wave.
In 1994, Republicans promoted their contract with America as a positive alternative. They still claim that advantage.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our party will continue to succeed because we're the party of ideas.
SCHNEIDER: What positive alternative have the Democrats got? Last week, they ceremoniously unveiled their real security plan to protect America. Missed it? Well, guess what? Most voters in 1994 had never even heard of the Contract with America.
STEVEN HESS, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The Republicans in 94 made that into the myth that it became.
SCHNEIDER: What drove the 1994 tidal wave was anger at President Clinton. It was the year of the angry white men. And this year...
HESS: Oh, there's plenty of anger out there.
SCHNEIDER: The question is whether that anger can be sustained for the next seven months.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: They say you can't beat something with nothing. They're wrong. If people are angry enough at something, they'll vote for something different, even if they're not entirely sure what it is -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, thank you very much. And this is just coming in to CNN. New developments in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui.
Let's go live to CNN producer Phil Hirschkorn. He is joining us on the phone now from the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia.
What are you picking up Phil?
PHIL HIRSCHKORN, CNN PRODUCER: Wolf, I know you like to deal with a lot of stories at once, so I'm going to give you two headlines here on the Moussaoui trial.
The first is this, the lone cockpit voice recorder that was recovered from the four planes hijacked on September 11 will be played publicly for the first time in this trial next week, the judge has just decided.
Leonie Brinkema issued an order today that the cockpit voice recorder from United flight 93 -- that's the one that crashed in Shanksville. It was on its way to San Francisco from Newark -- that will be played for jurors who will be deciding starting tomorrow whether to sentence Moussaoui to execution or life in prison.
Until now the judge has been concerned that this recording might be too inflammatory for Moussaoui's trial. But, you know, that was before the jury found that Moussaoui's lies a month before the attacks contributed to those 3,000 deaths.
The flight 93 recording, according to families who have heard it and have been dying to talk about it and dying for the rest of us to hear it, shows that passengers did try to storm the cockpit and did force the pilot hijackers to crash that plane, the plane that everyone believes is on the way to perhaps the Capitol in Washington.
That's the first headline, Wolf, here from the Moussaoui trial. Let me tell you the second one, which is pretty interesting. We understand that the man who led New York through the September 11th attacks is expected to be among the first witnesses when the trial resumes tomorrow.
Of course, I'm talking about Rudy Giuliani. He's expected to be called as a government witness to offer his perspective on the attacks. One reason is the government is going to try to show this jury how the attacks disrupted the functions of New York's government and economy.
Of course, again, the 3,000 deaths are something that Rudy Giuliani can talk about. He knew a lot of the firefighters and police officers who were killed responding to the attacks. He certainly knew one firefighter, who was married to his own executive assistant for 17 years. Giuliani married them at Gracie Mansion. And he was one of the many heroes who died that day. His name is Terry Hatton.
A big part of the trial that resumes tomorrow is victim impact. And we're going to hear that from Giuliani, as many as 40 other families who are going to testify in this case -- Wolf. BLITZER: Phil, I understand some -- at least we've spoken to some of the victims' family members who oppose the death sentence for Zacarias Moussaoui. They say this would make him a martyr and make matters even worse. They want him to spend the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole. Will the defense ask that some of these family members testify at this trial as well?
HIRSCHKORN: Well, we know that Moussaoui's defense team has been reaching out to family members and has had contact with family members that feel that way. We don't know exactly who is on the defense witness list. We do know that Moussaoui's mother, who we thought would be on the defense witness list, will not be. She tells CNN through a representative she may come back to the trial. She was here at the beginning of it, but she does not plan to testify.
It's really a mystery who the defense is going to put up there to vouch for Moussaoui other than, of course, some mental health experts that are going to call into question his sanity and his, you know, competency to say the things he's been saying, especially recently, admitting a role in 9/11 and advance knowledge of it.
BLITZER: Now what about Moussaoui? I assume he's going to want to take the stand once again, as he did in phase one of this trial.
HIRSCHKORN: He has vowed to do that. He's saying for four years that he wanted to testify and that's why he did last week. I tell you, nothing did more damage to his case than his own testimony. It actually looked like he might, you know, win, his attorneys might have won. There was so much solid cross-examination of the government witnesses in the first phase.
But once Moussaoui opened his mouth, it completely turned things around. He showed no remorse for the attacks. He expressed that he had rejoiced when he heard about them. And these are, again, factors in part two that the government will try to prove and persuade these jurors to impose a death sentence.
BLITZER: Phil Hirschkorn is our producer on the scene in Alexandria, Virginia, in the courthouse, phase two of this trial of Zacarias Moussaoui under way with some new developments. Phil, thank you very much.
Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is following this as well.
What are you picking up, Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, we've just seen this order come on the Virginia courts site. This is the order about the flight recorder. Unless there is a written objection from a family member not to release this flight recorder, it will be released. And that order we've just seen come online from the Virginia District Court site -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you very much. We're going to continue to watch this story, update you with more information as it becomes available. In the meantime, let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty standing by once again with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Nobody in Washington, D.C., seems capable of addressing the fact that about 50 million people in this, the richest country in the world, have no health insurance.
Massachusetts may have figured this out. The state legislature there overwhelmingly approved a bill that would make Massachusetts the first state to require all residents to buy health insurance. And if they don't, they will be fined. Republican governor Mitt Romney, who is considering a run for the White House in 2008, supports the proposal.
Under the plan, poor people would be offered free or heavily subsidized coverage. People who can afford insurance but don't get it would face increasing tax penalties, and those already insured would see a small decline in their premiums. It doesn't call for any new taxes, but businesses that don't offer insurance to employees would have to pay an annual fee of $295 per employee.
So here's the question. Should health insurance be mandatory? E-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile. And if they can prove that this is a workable idea up there in Massachusetts, Wolf, my guess is that Mr. Romney's designs on the White House might be greatly enhanced if it's the kind of thing that could be transferred over and applied nationally.
BLITZER: Well, could be a good experience in Massachusetts. Let's see what happens. Jack, thank you very much.
Coming up, billions of dollars in pork barrel spending. Where is all that money going? We're going to take a closer look at a new report singling out some of the worst cases.
Also, a new bill with high stakes for poker players. We're going to show you why some of them came to Capitol Hill to hedge their bets.
Plus, drastic measures by a Gulf Coast lawmaker threatening the White House over money to strengthen New Orleans levees. Senator Mary Landrieu in THE SITUATION ROOM. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. When it comes to rebuilding the storm- shattered Gulf Coast, are the White House and the Congress throwing good money after bad? One influential U.S. senator says more money is need in the right hands to make sure Louisiana's levees hold. And she's willing to take drastic action to get it. To press her point, she's putting a complete hold on all of the president's executive branch nominations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now, Democratic Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. Senator, thanks very much for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Why are you doing this? Some of your critics are suggesting this is an extreme measure to try to justify more funds for Gulf Coast reconstruction.
SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: Well, it may be a bit of an extreme measure but, Wolf, our situation is quite extreme. As I wrote to the president, this is truly a matter of life and death for the people of south Louisiana and the Gulf Coast. We are, as you know, America's only energy cost.
And not one, but two, devastating storms hit us just seven months ago, and then the levees broke in and around New Orleans that this put this major metropolitan area at great risk. And all we've gotten from the White House is hit or miss appropriations for levees. Last week we were told they were off by $6 billion. They need $6 billion more.
You know, Wolf, the president himself said in Jackson Square that he would do whatever it took to stand this coast back up. And I'll tell you what it's going to take. It's going to take more money for levees and coastal restoration.
And, again, because we produced so much revenue for the Federal Treasury, you would think that people would understand -- or the president or the administration -- that just a small part of that investment back would help us with this long-term recovery. So that's why it may seem extreme, but our situation is extreme.
BLITZER: But, Senator, the president and Congress have already appropriated more than $100 billion for Louisiana, for Alabama, for the entire Gulf Coast reconstruction -- $100 billion plus. What you're complaining about now is an additional $6 billion that you say needs to be funded right away.
The White House says, let's talk about that with Congress and work this out. Who at the White House have you spoken with directly to try to resolve this matter without jeopardizing the appointments of all of the president's nominations?
LANDRIEU: Well, first of all, Wolf, let me just try to work with you here to try to get a few things straight. That $100 billion has gone to fund FEMA, that has not gone for reconstruction for Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Texas, which is part of our cry. Stop sending money to FEMA. It is dysfunctional. It is not working to rebuild the Gulf Coast and ...
BLITZER: But isn't FEMA supposed to be working to rebuild the Gulf Coast?
LANDRIEU: Not really. They're a Federal Emergency Management Agency. We need new tools and new methods, which is why we came together along the Gulf Coast with Haley Barbour and Governor Blanco, Thad Cochran, myself, and Trent Lott and others and crafted help through the community development block grants.
Plus, we've gotten direct money for our universities that were devastated. Plus, we've gotten money for housing. That's the problem. The president keeps saying we're sending hundreds of millions of dollars down there, sending it to FEMA, which is wasting money, dysfunctional and even on its best day not up to the task. That's one issue. The second issue ...
BLITZER: But let me just be precise in this. What you're talking about is $6 billion right now that you say you need for the levees?
LANDRIEU: No. Actually, the president said, with Don Powell, that he needed the $6 billion, but yet he won't request it. But, Wolf, the bigger picture is this. The Gulf of Mexico sends to the Federal Treasury every year -- and we're the only coast that does it -- over $8 billion in offshore oil and gas revenues. That's every year direct to the Treasury.
If we could get one or $2 billion of that money every year back, we could restore the coast of Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas, build the levees that we need to build. Now, in addition, we need some additional funding for levees but that is a long-term solution.
BLITZER: Well, let me interrupt you, Senator. Have you spoken to someone at the White House to try to resolve this without this measure on your part to try to block all of these federal appointments?
LANDRIEU: I have spoken to Don Powell almost every week since he's been here, and I've been working on revenue sharing for 10 years. And we've talked to every single executive that has anything to do with this in the administration. The answer is we just can't afford it.
BLITZER: Have you spoken to the White House chief of staff or the president or the vice president? Have you spoken to anyone in a position to make a decision?
LANDRIEU: Yes, we have. We have talked to the president. I've sent a letter to the president. And we're holding up his executive nominations, not the judges and not the military. But we're holding up the Interior Secretary, OMB .
Wolf, I could give you a stack of letters, conversations we've had over the subject for the whole Gulf Coast for the last 10 years and with the president himself. He understands this issue. The question is, will he do anything about it? So that's what we're focused on.
BLITZER: All right. We're almost out of time. But the so- called "2006 Congressional Pig Book" just came out today and they're trying to highlight pork, excessive funding for all sorts of subjects, Citizens Against Government Waste.
Let me read a line from this report. "One would assume that the increase in Louisiana earmarks could be attributed to Hurricane Katrina. Unfortunately, this was not the case as the majority of projects added by the Appropriations Committee do not concern flood control or the reparation of destroyed levees." I wanted to get your reaction to that.
LANDRIEU: Well, first of all, I'm not in charge of all those amendments, Wolf. It's a big Congress and people have other priorities. I can tell that Louisiana in the committee yesterday, which I represented, stayed very close to our knitting.
We got more money for housing, more money for levees, more money for the 19 universities that were devastated, including two historically black colleges, one of which is still not open to this day. The president understands that this is an extraordinary situation.
We need extraordinary measures. Again, stop wasting money through FEMA. Start rebuilding the Gulf Coast and give us money to restore our coast and build our levees. And then we can take care of the rest ourselves.
BLITZER: I'll give you one final example of what they say was a waste of money -- 13 -- what they said was $13.5 million allocated for the Jay Bennett Johnson Waterway, which the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers believes won't be justified until 2046. Are you familiar with that specific project?
LANDRIEU: I'm not familiar with that specific project or that earmark. What I can tell you is this is a project that Senator Johnson, before I was even here, undertook for north Louisiana, which was very vital to their economic development.
But, again, Wolf, this is about the southern part of Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas and Alabama, that contribute a great deal to this country. We're only asking to help ourselves. Give us the money that we generate to build our levees and to restore our coasts and stop wasting it on FEMA with trailers that don't work and levees that aren't repaired correctly.
BLITZER: Senator Landrieu, thanks very much for joining us.
LANDRIEU: Thank you.
BLITZER: Still ahead, a Congresswoman possibly facing charges over a scuffle with a Capitol Hill police officer. We'll talk about the Cynthia McKinney case in our "Strategy Session." That's coming up.
Plus, we'll show you what's in a new bill that brought poker players to Capitol Hill. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Zain Verjee has the day off. Carol Lin is joining us now from the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Wolf.
Pegging off your top story, Cardinal Roger Mahony is calling on Los Angeles Catholics to fast for solidarity with illegal immigrants. Now, the soft-spoken leader of the largest Catholic archdiocese has become something of a lightning rod in the debate over immigration. Last month he criticized the House bill that makes it a crime to help the nation's 12 million illegal immigrants.
And a top Homeland Security Department official arrested for allegedly trying to seduce a child on the Internet. Now, the department says deputy press secretary, Brian Doyle, is on administrative leave without pay. Doyle was nabbed after a series of sexually explicit online conversations with what he thought was a 14- year-old girl who turned out to be a computer crimes detective in Florida.
Now, Fargo public works officials are watching the Red River very closely. The river crested today at 37 feet, flooding parts of the North Dakota city. But officials warn people to continue monitoring pumps and sandbags until the water recedes. They say that should take at least six days. Damage from the flooding could reach a million dollars.
All right. Now for the day's cuteness break. A baby seal has been seen swimming in the Delaware River near Gloucester City, New Jersey. He or she is probably three months old and is a gray seal and a little out of place. Gray seals are typically found in the cooler waters of Nova Scotia. Now it's unclear, Wolf, how the seal wound up in Jersey, but it is spring break.
BLITZER: And it's very cute as well. Thanks very much, Carol, for that.
LIN: Sure.
BLITZER: If you're one of the millions of Americans who gamble online, your luck may be up. Right now lawmakers are considering a bill that would outlaw the $12 billion industry in the United States. Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is joining us now with the latest -- Abbi.
TATTON: Wolf, the law on Internet gambling up to now has been unclear. There have been virtually no prosecutions in the United States and many of these Web sites are operated overseas. So it's hard for U.S. authorities to prosecute or regulate them.
This new law that was discussed today that's proposed -- it's been discussed in the House Judiciary Committee, it was proposed by Virginia Congressman Bob Goodlatte. It would update existing legislation, the Wire Act of 1961, that regulates gambling over the telephone. It would update it to include the Internet.
Congressman Goodlatte has a list of supporting organizations at his sight but not everybody is happy about it. There are 23 million worldwide that gamble online and it's estimated that a third of them are from the United States. And some groups are really not happy. The Poker Players' Alliance is one of them trying to get their 20,000 members to email members of Congress in support of online poker -- Wolf. BLITZER: Thank you very much, Abbi, for that.
Today in our "Strategy Session," the Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney scuffle in the Capitol last week continuing to draw controversy. Are the Democratic congresswoman's accusations hurting her own political party?
Joining us now, Democratic analyst and radio talk show host Bill Press, and Terry Jeffrey, the editor of "Human Events." Guys, thanks very much for joining us. Let's listen to what the Capitol Hill police chief, Terrance Gainer, said earlier today on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF TERRANCE GAINER, CAPITOL POLICE: In essence, what happened, the member approached the door. Members don't have to go through the magnetometers but they need to be recognized. There was a busy door. The officer did not recognize the member. She was not wearing her pin. He reached out and grabbed her. She turned around and hit him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He said it's a simple matter of she didn't obey orders, she was walking around and she ignored what the police officer was asking her to do. Is there any way, any way at all her behavior could be justified?
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No. My advice to Congresswoman McKinney is given that these are the facts, if they are the facts -- we have no reason to doubt Chief Gainer, that she should apologize to the police officer and move on and stop trying to make a federal case out of this.
I don't think it's a win for her and it's certainly not a win for the Democratic Party. I mean, look, you know, he didn't recognize her. She should have been wearing her pin. You don't punch a police officer. It's as simple as that, end of story.
BLITZER: Her argument -- and she was here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Terry, the other day. Her argument is he should have recognized her. There are only 12 black women in the United States House of Representatives. He should have known who she was. And more than that, she says this is racial profiling.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": Now, that's an outrageous thing, Wolf. And I think -- it's good that Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer are distancing themselves from her. This is the Capitol building of the United States of America.
Several years ago a person did in fact run pass one of these checkpoints with a gun, murdered some Capitol Hill policemen, one of them in the office of Tom DeLay. She should be sensitive to that. Then to accuse the police department of racism - she not only attacked the individual policeman but the entire Capitol Hill police force. I mean, that is ridiculous.
BLITZER: How much is this going to hurt Democrats if you believe, Bill, this will hurt Democrats?
PRESS: I don't think it will hurt Democrats so much. I think people see this as one individual. Terry mentioned she's got no support from the senior leadership there. I think they see this one individual is making a big case out of this. Maybe he should have recognized her, but she definitely should have been wearing her pin. I think she should stop making a federal case of it. I also think Republicans should stop trying to exploit it. She hasn't been indicted for laundering money in Texas, but she did wrong. She should apologize.
BLITZER: Is there, though, a bigger problem? And it may not have been necessarily a case in this particular example. A bigger problem of African Americans, other minorities, being profiled or stereotyped and forced to undergo certain questions, if you will, that white Americans may not necessarily have to undergo.
JEFFREY: Wolf, this is the case that Cynthia McKinney is trying to make, trying to with a broad brush slander the police department on Capitol Hill. And I notice that members of the Congressional Black Caucus are not stepping forward to say that and back her up.
Look, if there's a policeman who is a racist, he shouldn't be a cop. Racism in any form is wrong. But these guys are doing an excellent job on Capitol Hill. They're under tremendous stress. They are in fact protecting people like Cynthia McKinney and deserve her respect, not to be slimed by her the way they have been.
PRESS: Wolf, we've all seen cases of racial profiling around the country and a lot of it has come from police forces at the state, at the local level. But I don't think this is one of those cases. I think it's clearly a case of mistaken identity, in a hurry. Again, apologize and move on. Just drop this thing.
BLITZER: Let's talk about something where probably the two of you will disagree on, that would be Tom DeLay and his legacy. He was here in THE SITUATION ROOM yesterday. Representative Tom Reynolds, who is the chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee he said -- quoted in "The New York Times" as saying this, "In Richard Nixon terms, you won't Tom DeLay to kick around anymore." Is this good for the Democrats or bad for the Democrats that he's going to walk away from the Congress?
PRESS: I think it's good for the country that he walks away from the Congress. I think it's good for Democrats. I think it's good for the Republican Party that he walks away from the Congress. I mean, Tom DeLay is a poster boy of congressional corruption.
And by the way, we will have him to kick around anymore. He's not out of legal hot water. Still under indictment in Texas. He's still going to trial in Texas. We'll see what happens. And he's still under investigation in Washington, DC. So I think Republicans ought to start washing their hands of Tom DeLay. BLITZER: You want to respond to that?
JEFFREY: I think there's no question it's god for the Republican Party. It's good for Tom DeLay. They quite likely would have lost his seat if he had stayed in. Now they're going to win it. The Democrats will not be able to use him as a whipping boy but I tell you something, I talked to Tom DeLay and read the transcript of your interview, Wolf. And I will say this for Tom DeLay.
This is a guy who is coming out ready to face the press and answer questions. He's defiant on some things, he's got some answers for other things. He's now been indicted in the Abramoff case. He says he's not a target of the investigation. He has cooperated with federal investigators by offering up and volunteering documents. So I think we're a long way from seeing him being incriminated by the Abramoff scandal in any way. So let's see how that unfolds.
BLITZER: Unfortunately, we've got to leave it there. Hold your thought ...
PRESS: We will see how it unfolds.
BLITZER: ... for another occasion, Bill and Terry. Thank you very much. Good discussion.
Up next, it's called the "Pig Book." And it highlights frivolous spending of your tax dollars. We'll show you the latest pork report and why it has some people outraged.
Plus, he's a possible presidential contender and doing something in his home state that could take on national importance in the upcoming campaign. We're going to tell you what the Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney Is up to. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: Massachusetts lawmakers have approved a healthcare reform plan that would extend coverage to an estimated 500,000 uninsured people. It would offer poor people free or heavily subsidized coverage. It would tax those who could afford insurance but refuse to get it. If it works, it will certainly look good on the governor's resume. For that let's turn to our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Well, Wolf, if Governor Mitt Romney decides to seek the presidency, the new universal health insurance plan that Massachusetts is close to adopting is likely to be a center piece of his campaign. Why? Because in part it fits a pattern of governor candidates who point to their state house records as a way of appealing across party lines.
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JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'll never tell a lie ... GREENFIELD (voice-over): When former Georgia Governor Jimmy Carter ran in 1976 he boasted he was not from Washington, a big plus in that post Watergate area. He also talked of cutting and streamlining government. That's a pitch usually made by Republicans.
Four years later ex-California Governor Ronald Reagan ran as a staunch conservative. But as governor he pushed for a big jump in the state college and university system and quintupled scholarships. His crackdown on welfare cheats was coupled with a big increase in welfare for the truly needy.
MICHAEL DUKAKIS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In nine years, I've balanced nine more budgets ....
GREENFIELD: In 1988 Governor Michael Dukakis ran on a claim of competence and the Massachusetts miracle meeting the state's thriving economy. But his campaign faulted amid charges he presided over a furlough program for criminals and an environmental disaster in Boston Harbor. He's the only governor in more than half a century to lose a general election campaign as a major party nominee.
For Arkansas's Bill Clinton, the claim was his efforts to end welfare as we know it and to reform the educational system.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our students ought to be held to national standards ...
GREENFIELD: Reforms that included teacher competency testing. That's not the favorite idea of teachers' unions that are a key Democratic Party element. Texas Governor George W. Bush also pointed to education in his 2000 presidential campaign. But his emphasis was improving a lot of poor students.
BUSH: And challenged what we call the ...
GREENFIELD: His attack on the soft bigotry of low expectations was the compassionate part of his compassionate conservatism.
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GREENFIELD: Now, to conservatives Romney can talk about individual responsibility, the rejection of a single payer system. To moderates and liberals he can talk about a plan that covers just about everyone on an issue where Democrats usually have a big advantage. Of course this assumes that the plan actually works. Wolf.
BLITZER: Big assumption. We'll see how it does. Jeff, thank you very much for that.
Coming up, the scuffle heard around the country. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney sparse with one of our own anchors about her run-in with Capitol Hill police. But is she adding anything new to the story? That's coming up in the next hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Cynthia McKinney and Soledad O'Brien. We'll show you how that interview went this morning.
And pork barrel spending, all in the so-called "Pig Book." We're going to open it up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: A watchdog group is calling attention to pork barrel spending by Congress and it's compiled what it says are some of the most egregious examples in what's called the 2006 "Congressional Pig Book." CNN's Brian Todd is joining us. He's got details -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this watchdog group doesn't spare many of the members of Congress it singles out in those reports saying these projects add up to what it calls an historic lack of restraint among those in Congress who decide how to spend your money.
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TODD (voice-over): If you pass through the tiny town of Sparta, North Carolina, in a couple of years, please make a point ...
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TODD (on camera): We lost our technical capability there and hope to bring you that report in just a little bit. Among the items in this report, it says that it says there was $500,000 spent on the Teapot Museum in Sparta, North Carolina and there's going to ground breaking in a couple of years from that report -- We're told that we have the piece and we're going to roll it right now.
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TODD (voice-over): If you pass through the tiny town of Sparta, North Carolina, in a couple of years, please make a point to visit the local teapot museum. You might see anything from a skyline teapot to something that looks like it doesn't hold tea.
We're asking you to stop by so Congress can get its money worth. That's $500,000 of your tax money doled out for the Sparta Teapot Museum. The president of the group Citizens Against Government Waste calls this the most ridiculous project among hundreds cited in this year's "Congressional Pig Book" on wasteful pork barrel spending.
TOM SCHATZ, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT WASTE: You want to wander 77 miles from Winston-Salem, North Carolina, you might be able to visit the museum in the middle of nowhere.
TODD: The more urbane Museum of Glass in Tacoma, Washington gets $550,000 of your money this year, and the report singles out the appropriators who represent that district. Senator Patty Murray and Congressman Norman Dix. An aide to Senator Murray says she decides what to ask for based on her constituents' priorities. Dix's office didn't return our calls. How does more than $2 million for the International Fertilizer Development Center strike your wallet or a million dollars for urinals that don't use water?
SCHATZ: Obviously that projected received the flushing our money down the drain award. TODD: We caught up with Congressman Vernon Ehlers of Michigan who got that money for waterless urinals. He says this method of flushing waste is anything but wasteful.
REP. VERNON EHLERS (D), MICHIGAN: They're just cheaper. They cost less to maintain. They save 45,000 gallons of water a year. It's just a wonderful idea.
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TODD: A special citation this year called the cold shoulder award goes to Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska. For the seventh straight year he wins for the most pork allocations per capita, $325 million worth in Alaska this year, including more than a million for berry research and $500,000 for the Arctic Winter Games which this watchdog group says was put in a defense bill. I stopped by Senator Stevens' office earlier today and called him back. He has no comment -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Brian, for that. So how are your congressmen and congresswomen spending your valuable tax dollars? Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is here to help us walk through this pork barrel spending report -- Jacki.
JACK SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Or to help you how to find it yourself. You can go online. This watchdog group has put the pig report, the "Pig Book" online. Search through the database. They say there's close to 10,000 projects. You can search by key word, state or appropriations bill. For instance, put in "teapot" and you can get that museum that Brian mentioned.
Now this summary that has the 375 projects that are detailed is also online and it does have its detractors. Some people in the government are saying it's inaccurate or its not complete in its information. For example, in the section marked "Interior," there was $4.5 million allocated for something called the Katahdin Iron Works, it was a company that was allegedly defunct in the 1890s.
And if you go to the Web site which the report cites, it does look like a hiking and camping recreation area. Seems like a lot of money but we called Senator Collins' office, Wolf, and what they told us this is for forestry preservation and this affects 37,000 acres of forestry land. So not everything what it seems in this report, it looks like.
BLITZER: Looks like. We'll see more. People can go ahead and study all of those allocations. Jacki, thank you very much.
Up next, Massachusetts lawmakers have passed a bill that would require most residents to buy health insurance or else. Should health insurance be mandatory? Jack Cafferty reading your email.
And talk about unlikely allies. Why is the father of modern day conservatism, William F. Buckley making nice or seemingly making nice to Senator Hillary Clinton? We're going to tell you about that. That's coming up, 7:00 p.m. in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: On our "Political Radar," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today was on Capitol Hill asking Congress to approve a controversial plan to share U.S. nuclear technology with India. Democratic Senator Joe Biden took note of Rice's sales skills and suggested she may be capable of a different kind of campaigning.
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SEN. JOE BIDEN, (D) FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Mr. Chairman, a lot of people on my side are wondering if she's getting in practice. I don't know what -- She'd be a formidable presidential candidate.
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BLITZER: Former Democratic presidential nominee Senator John Kerry today drew a line in the sand. Writing in "The New York Times," Kerry says the U.S. should warn Iraqi leaders that we'll withdraw troops immediately if the Iraqis don't form a unity government by May 15th. Kerry writes it's time to, and I'm quoting now, "get tough with Iraq's leadership and get U.S. troops out of danger."
Senator Kerry, by the way, will be my guest here in THE SITUATION ROOM. That's coming up tomorrow right here on CNN. Senator Kerry in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Still to come today in THE SITUATION ROOM, Jack Cafferty's question of the hour. Should health insurance be mandatory? And later, strange political bed fellows. Senator Hillary Clinton gains a new unlikely ally. Is he really an ally? We'll hear. We'll see.
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BLITZER: Jack's back with the "Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: The Massachusetts legislature approved a bill that would make it the first state to require all residents to buy health insurance and if they don't they'll be fine. The question is should health insurance be mandatory?
Robin in Belfast, Maine writes, "I'm a liberal small-d voter. But on the health insurance issue, I would support this move. It will save the taxpayer, protect the healthcare industry and protect the citizen. Why didn't we think of this before."
A.G. in Boston writes "Massachusetts requires that you have car insurance. That's fine because a person's right to drive is a license issued by the state. This is something entirely different. It's the state reaching into your person and requiring that you subscribe to something it deems necessary. I find it intrusive."
Alan in Buxton, Maine. "If it were mandatory, who would pay for it? Being a legal citizen, I can't afford it. How do I go about getting my citizenship revoked so I can take advantage of some of these things?" Kevin in Edmond, Oklahoma. "Of course health insurance should be mandatory. As it stands, we all pay for the uninsured anyway through higher premiums and taxes. This may produce a healthier population and thus less cost in the long run."
And C. writes, "No. Keep government out of our lives."
BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much. Jack Cafferty, we'll get back to you very soon.
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