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The Situation Room

Did President Bush Authorize a Leak?; McKinney Apologizes for Capitol Police Scuffle; Life or Death for Moussaoui; Interview with Senator John Kerry

Aired April 06, 2006 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information from around the world are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.

Happening now, it's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, where court papers from prosecutors show President Bush himself authorized a leak on Iraq. It's a very significant new development. Not necessarily illegal, but potentially very embarrassing for a White House already under fire.

It's 1:00 a.m. Friday in Iraq, where U.S. troops are fighting a brutal insurgency with no end in sight. Now former Democratic presidential candidate Senator John Kerry is calling for a deadline for a new Iraqi government under the threat of a U.S. military withdrawal. John Kerry joins us here this hour.

And it's 5:00 p.m. at the National Geographic Society here in Washington. Experts there are announcing the translation of a lost gospel that could change thousands of years of Christian teaching on the betrayal of Judas and the death of Jesus.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

The political consequences could be embarrassing, even potentially explosive. Today we're learning that federal prosecutors say Vice President Dick Cheney told his former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby that President Bush authorized a leak of sensitive intelligence about Iraq. That's according to newly-revealed court papers.

Let's get the details from our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the White House and the vice president's office are not commenting on this story or this controversy. Rather, that is because they say it pertains to an on-going investigation. But it is very clear here, while this may not present a legal problem for the president, potentially there could be a political one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX (voice over): There is no evidence that President Bush or Vice President Cheney broke the law. Court documents released today do show that the White House's campaign to rebut criticism of the Iraq war was being driven from the highest level, the president himself

STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: At the time this whole issue was really blowing up in the president's face.

MALVEAUX: In the summer of 2003, several months after the U.S. invaded Iraq, no weapons of mass destruction had been found. The administration was facing intense criticism that it had twisted the Iraq intelligence to justify the war. Most notably from former Ambassador Joe Wilson, who discredited Mr. Bush's statement that Iraq was trying to obtain materials from Africa to produce nuclear weapons.

ROTHENBERG: The president was on the defensive every day, and obviously the White House believes that it had information that -- that really challenged Ambassador Wilson's take on the entire issue.

MALVEAUX: According to senior administration officials and reported by CNN at the time, the Bush administration launched an all- out campaign to defend its rationale for war and discredit its critics. Part of that campaign involved declassifying a small portion of the super-secret National Intelligence Estimate, or NIE, which said in part, Iraq "will probably have a nuclear weapon during this decade," and then leaking that information to reporters, first on July 8th to "The New York Times."

Cheney's aide, Scooter Libby, quietly disclosing it over a breakfast meeting to its reporter, Judy Miller, and then 10 days later publicly releasing the declassified NIE to all reporters at a White House briefing. While the president's decision to declassify and release the report was completely legal, this revelation could present Mr. Bush with big political problems.

ROTHENBERG: Well, the president has a growing credibility problem for at least six months now. There's been clearly deterioration in his poll numbers in terms of honesty and trustworthiness.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And Democrats are always seizing on this, of course. We saw Democrat Senator Chuck Schumer weighing on it, calling for a full accounting from the president. Aside from that, Wolf, of course, this could provide just another distraction -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll have more on the story, Suzanne, coming up, including my interview with Senator John Kerry.

Thanks very much.

Also other news following -- we're following here in Washington. Now there's an apology from Democratic Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney of Georgia for her scuffle with a Capitol Hill Police officer. It comes as a grand jury in Washington is weighing whether to bring charges against her for the incident.

CNN's Brian Todd is joining us now with more on the controversy -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, not long ago, I spoke with a member of Congress who's also in the Congressional Black Caucus. This person didn't want to be named, but told me in a closed-door meeting last night other members told Cynthia McKinney flat out, she must apologize, this situation had to be de-escalated. Other congressional sources tell CNN the Democratic leadership had grown more frustrated with the attention on the McKinney case.

Earlier today, the embattled congresswoman took to the House floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CYNTHIA MCKINNEY (D), GEORGIA: There should not have been any physical contact in this incident. I have always supported law enforcement and will be voting for HR756, expressing my gratitude and appreciation to the professionalism and dedication of the men and women of the U.S. Capitol Police. I am sorry that this misunderstanding happened at all and I regret its escalation. And I apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: But at that very moment, a grand jury here in Washington was preparing to hear from two congressional aides, one Republican, one Democrat, who witnessed McKinney's altercation with the Capitol Hill Police officer last week. Those two aides were to testify this afternoon. And an official with the police union tells CNN the officer in question will testify, very likely by tomorrow or early next week.

Sources familiar with the case tell CNN this investigation is continuing. They say it's unclear what impact McKinney's apology will have, and no decision has been made yet on any charges -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

We're getting some new information involving the Department of Homeland Security.

Let's bring in our Jeanne Meserve. She's watching this story for us.

What's going on, Jeanne?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you know, the Federal Emergency Management Agency has been in the crosshairs ever since Hurricane Katrina, when Michael Brown was fired as director of that agency. David Paulison was put in as acting director. The White House has now announced that he will be nominated to take that position permanently. An announcement expected over at FEMA within the hour. In addition, there are plans to tap a Coast Guard vice admiral by the name of Harvey Johnson to be deputy to Paulison. Johnson has been commander of the Pacific operations for the Coast Guard, and as such was involved in the response to Katrina and also to the Coast Guard's response to the tsunamis in southeast Asia. Both of those developments expected to be formalized very shortly.

BLITZER: And with hurricane season starting June 1st, a very important appointment. We wish Mr. Paulison the best.

Thanks, Jeanne. Thanks very much.

CNN's Kelli Arena has just emerged from the courtroom where the former New York City mayor Rudolph Giuliani recounted the horrors of 9/11. His testimony part of the penalty phase in the trial of the al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui.

Kelli, what's the latest?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, it's just day one, but I tell you, most people in that courtroom feel like we've been through the wringer for days.

Opening statements today. We heard from the prosecution that promised some very emotional and painful testimony. We got that. The defense urging the jury to keep an open mind, suggesting that there are certain mitigating factors that led Moussaoui to his choice to be a terrorist, including a very troubled childhood and what they say is paranoid schizophrenia.

The first witness that was called, former mayor Rudolph Giuliani. He gave a first-hand account of the devastation that he encountered on that day, giving very graphic details about body parts and people jumping out of buildings and the fire and the smell of burning flesh that he -- that he witnessed in the day -- the day of and the days following the September 11th attacks.

After that, we heard from victim family members and some friends talking about people who lost their lives as a result of those attacks. We heard from one firemen whose friend was killed by a falling body out of the World Trade Center. We heard from a police officer who had lost his wife who was also a police officer who was helping to rescue other victims, a father who lost his daughter who was a flight attendant, a brother who -- his brother-in-law died and his sister committed suicide.

It's just been endless, Wolf. Endless, endless, emotional testimony.

BLITZER: And it's by no means over yet. Kelli, thank you very much for that update.

ARENA: That's right. You're welcome.

BLITZER: Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty is standing by once again with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack. JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney today said, "I'm sorry," sorry for a scuffle with a Capitol Police officer. She called it a misunderstanding and said she regretted its escalation.

Well, it didn't escalate by itself. She escalated it.

She has spent the last week on television accusing the police of racial profiling. She refused to answer any questions about her boorish and unprofessional behavior when the officer had the temerity to question her as she attempted to go around a security checkpoint. When he tried to stop her, she allegedly punched him.

Now the case has been referred to a federal grand jury for possible prosecution. Assaulting a police officer is a felony. She could lose her congressional seat. She could go to jail.

Whoops, maybe I better apologize.

Here's the question: Is Representative Cynthia McKinney's apology enough?

E-mail us at CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.

BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much.

Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, my interview with Senator John Kerry. I'll ask him about the ultimatum he's proposing for Iraq: form a government and do it soon, or U.S. troops come home.

Plus, President Bush called to task in a question-and-answer session on Iraq. Domestic eavesdropping and more, tough questions from an angry American. We're going to show you this really, really incredible exchange that the president had.

And a new translation of an ancient text. It's the lost gospel of Judas, and it could change much of what we think about the death of Jesus.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Zain Verjee is off today. Carol Lin joining us from the CNN Center with a closer look at some other stories making news.

Hi, Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, Wolf.

A curfew is in effect in the Iraqi city of Najaf after a car bomb exploded near a sacred Shiite shrine today. At least 10 people were killed.

The State Department condemns the attack and says the United States will do everything possible to help bring those responsible to justice. A February bombing of a revered Shiite mosque in Samarra triggered a wave of sectarian violence.

The Iraqi man considered the chief suspect in last year's kidnapping of an Italian journalist has been captured. Multinational military forces say Muhammed Ubaydi was seized in Baghdad last month after an intense manhunt. He's believed to be a main ally of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of Al Qaeda in Iraq. He's also a suspect in the kidnappings and killings of several hostages.

Well, Senate lawmakers from both parties say they are very close to a deal on a sweeping immigration reform bill. It would pave a path to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants.

Now, under the proposal, undocumented workers who have been in the U.S. for at least five years could potentially become citizens if they meet a series of requirements. The measure would require illegal immigrants in the U.S. for less than five years to leave the country and apply for a work visa.

Well, a government-run newspaper in Cuba is reporting a clash between Cuban-Americans on a human smuggling mission and Cuba's Coast Guard. The paper says the Coast Guard ordered the boat to stop off the country's western coast, but the three people on board "responded with aggression." The paper says the Coast Guard opened fire, killing one person and injuring another.

That's it from the world headquarters -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Carol, for that.

President Bush is often criticized for holding tightly-scripted question-and-answer sessions before hand-picked supporters who offer lots of praise. Not necessarily today. During a visit to North Carolina this morning, the president faced this scolding.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see you assert your right to tap my telephone, to arrest me and hold me without -- without charges, to...

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to try to preclude me from breathing clean air and drinking clean water and eating safe food. If I were a woman, you'd like to restrict my opportunity to make a choice and decision about whether I can abort a pregnancy on my own behalf.

You are...

BUSH: I'm not your favorite guy. Go ahead.

(APPLAUSE)

BUSH: Go on. What's your question? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I don't have a question. What I want to say to you is that I -- in my lifetime, I have never felt more ashamed nor more frightened by my leadership in Washington, including the presidency, by the Senate and...

BUSH: Let him speak. Let him speak.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I would hope -- I feel like, despite your rhetoric, the compassion and commonsense have been left far behind during your administration. And I would hope from time to time that you have the humility and the grace to be ashamed of yourself inside yourself.

And I also want to say that I really appreciate the courtesy of allowing me to speak what I'm saying to you right now. That it is part of what this country's about.

(APPLAUSE)

BUSH: It is, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know this doesn't come welcome to most of the people in this room, but I do appreciate that. I don't have a question, but I just want to make that comment to you.

BUSH: I appreciate it. Thank you. The -- let me...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I ask a question?

BUSH: the -- I'm going to start off with what you first said, if you don't mind.

You said that I tap your phones. I think that's what you said. You tapped your phone -- I tapped your phones, yes. No, that's right. No, let me finish.

I'd like to describe that decision I made about protecting this country. You can come to whatever conclusion you want. The conclusion is, I'm not going to apologize for what I did on the terrorist surveillance program, and I'll tell you why.

We were accused in Washington, D.C., of not connecting the dots, that we didn't do everything we could to protect you or others from the attack. And so I called in the people responsible for helping to protect the American people and the homeland and said is there anything more we can do?

And there -- out of this national NSA came the recommendation that we -- it would make sense for us to listen to a call outside the country, inside the country from al Qaeda or suspected al Qaeda in order to have real-time information from which to possibly prevent an attack. I thought that made sense, so long it was constitutional.

Now, you may not agree with the constitutional assessment given to me by lawyers, and we've got plenty of them in Washington. But they made this assessment that it was constitutional for me to make that decision.

I then, sir, took that decision to members of the United States Congress from both political parties and briefed them on the decision that was made in order to protect the American people. They -- and so members of both parties, both chambers were fully aware of a program intended to know whether or not al Qaeda was calling in or calling out of the country.

It seems like to make sense. If we're at war, we ought to be using tools necessary within the Constitution on a very limited basis, a program that's reviewed constantly to protect us.

Now, you and I have a different of agreement on what is needed to be protected, but you said would I apologize for that? The answer -- answer is absolutely not.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: An extraordinary exchange earlier today in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, John Kerry's plan for Iraq. The Democratic senator and former presidential candidate making some controversial proposals to try to jump-start the political stalemate in Baghdad.

Senator Kerry joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, my interview with CBS "Evening News" anchor Bob Schieffer. We'll talk about the latest revelations on White House leaks and Katie Couric's coming to CBS.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Time now for "The Bottom Line." Ali Velshi is standing by -- Ali.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Wolf.

The only thing worse than hearing that you're in for a rough hurricane season is learning that your insurance company is about to dump you as you head into hurricane season. About 140 Florida homeowners will lose their insurance policies.

Atlantic Preferred Insurance says it's going to begin canceling them in July, just a month into the hurricane season. Now, Atlantic is part of Poe Financial. Two weeks ago, it said another subsidiary of it would stop issuing or stop renewing policies. The company says it's trying to recover a $2 billion hit from claims over the past two years.

Now, Poe was once the third largest homeowner insurer in the state of Florida. Florida homeowners who can't get coverage and are forced into a state-created insurer of last resort by law has got to charge the highest rates in the state.

Now, if you've got some gold in your portfolio, Wolf, you're doing just fine. Gold prices today topped the $600 per ounce mark for the first time in 25 years. You have to go back to 1981 to find a gold market that is as hot as this one.

Now, a weak dollar, rising oil prices, all of that has sparked the recent buying binge. If you're thinking about investing in the bling, you know that geopolitical uncertainties will help boost its value. But keep in mind, gold touched $850 an ounce back in 1980. There was talk it could reach $1,000 an ounce, and so investors bought in right at the top. They didn't do so well these past 20 years.

And that rise in gold, Wolf, has helped -- helped buy oil prices. That's all making people worry about inflation a little bit, and that's knocked the Dow down. You can see there, 23 points lower at 11,216. The Nasdaq ending about even at 2,360 -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Ali, thank you very much.

Ali Velshi with "The Bottom Line."

Ali just mentioned Hurricane Katrina. CNN is proud that we just won our tenth Peabody Award for our Hurricane Katrina coverage. The judges wrote, "No other national 24-hour news service provided more essential up-to-the-minute information for viewers, listeners and online users."

"CNN's continuous live coverage became a go-to channel," they say, "for the most current news about Katrina and its effects."

But our commitment and dedication to those affected by Hurricane Katrina does not stop there. We promise we'll continue to provide essential reporting on the rebuilding of the Gulf Coast.

Congratulations to CNN and everyone involved. We're very proud of this honor.

Coming up, Democratic Senator John Kerry says if Iraqi leaders can't form a unity government by May 15th, U.S. troops should leave. I'll ask Senator Kerry about that, as well as today's story concerning reports of an intelligence leak authorized by the president.

And did the disciple Judas really betray Jesus? There's a new document lost for more than a thousand years that tries to answer that question. We're going to tell you what it says.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

With the word today from prosecutors that he authorized the disclosure of classified intelligence, President Bush may find himself in more hot water with the American public. His opponent in the last presidential election, Democratic Senator John Kerry, is very happy to help turn up the heat.

Earlier this afternoon, I sat down with the senator on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now, Senator John Kerry.

Senator, thanks for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: A pleasure.

BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about the news of the day, which is this disclosure and the government, the prosecution put forward some documents suggesting that the vice president's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was authorized actually by the president to leak classified information from a national intelligence estimate on Iraq. What do you make of this development?

KERRY: Well, it's incredible! I mean, it means, first of all, if it's true, it means that there is no accountability in this administration, the buck doesn't stop anywhere. It means you have a president of the United States who stood up in front of Americans and said, gee, we have to find out who did this, we're gonna have an investigation, if I find the person, I'll fire him, and so he's been looking for himself for two years. It's stunning, and ...

BLITZER: The document didn't say that the president authorized Libby to leak the name of Valerie Plame, the CIA operative, only to leak information and the NIE, the national intelligence estimate, unclear which information in the NIE, although it's presumed involving former Ambassador Joe Wilson's trip to Niger.

KERRY: Right. But to the best of my knowledge, it's part of the same effort to discredit Joe Wilson and to credit illegitimate arguments for going to war in Iraq, and the fact is that the bottom line remains that if the president of the United States is authorizing for political purposes the release of classified information, you have a very serious issue.

BLITZER: How serious of an issue is it? There's already one motion to censure the president that Senator Russ Feingold has put forward because of the domestic warrantless wiretaps.

KERRY: Well, this would certainty be item number two on that list, if it is true. As I said -- I don't know all the facts, but I know what the court papers allege to have said, and if the court papers are accurate, then that is something that the Congress would have to take a very hard look at.

BLITZER: As you know, a lot of Republicans, including the former House majority leader Tom DeLay, are saying if the Democrats take the majority in the Senate and/or the House, the first thing they're going to try to do is impeach this president.

KERRY: The first thing that the Democrats are going to try to do is put this country back on track and get a policy in Iraq that doesn't have our young kids being killed because of a bunch of Iraqi politicians won't come together and we're not involved enough to get them to, and we will do the things necessary to put this country on a track, not a political track like we have today, but one that deals with healthcare, with jobs, with the budget deficit, and the real concerns of the American people. One thing I know we know how to do is govern, and I think this country needs governance of its best quality.

BLITZER: Is impeachment an option out there?

KERRY: Look, I don't even want to -- that's a road that's all political, all Washington, all process. What Americans want for us right now is to deal with the issues they're concerned about, and number one, they are appropriately concerned about young Americans who are putting their lives on the line in Iraq for a policy that doesn't work.

It is inexcusable that five months or four months plus after an election, they don't have a government, they're sitting around arguing with each other, and every day you've got kids coming back to Bethesda and to Walter Reed Hospital without their arms or limbs, with serious disabilities because of this policy of the president's. His policy is wrong, we need to be tough with the Iraqis, we need to say you've got until May 15th to put a government together, and if you don't put it together, our troops are leaving.

BLITZER: I want to get to Iraq in a moment, but let's just wind up on the censure. Senator Feingold has got this motion out there. Senator Leahy, the ranking member on the Judiciary Committee said the other day, he said this, "Our witnesses today will address whether censure is an appropriate sanction for the violations," the wireless wiretapping. "I am inclined," he said, "to believe that it is."

Are you inclined to believe that the behavior of the president, authorizing the wireless wiretaps, the surveillance, is appropriate for censure?

KERRY: Yes.

BLITZER: So you would support Senator Feingold on that?

KERRY: I am inclined to believe it, and I think the hearings are appropriate, and I would be prepared to vote for it, if there shows the appropriate linkage of what they've done to the requirements of the law. I believe it is, and I believe it is appropriate, but we have to have it properly vetted through the committee and I think it's appropriate to do that. But I think it's more than appropriate to be having this discussion and that debate, and it ought to be deeper than that.

Wolf, you've got a war that's being prosecuted by a secretary of defense who's been wrong on almost every step of the way, but there's no accountability. It's like a FEMA director, Mr. Brown, who wasn't prepared for Katrina. You have Mr. Wolfowitz, who leaves the Pentagon after designing the war, and he's promoted up. You have intelligence that was faulty, but you give the Medal of Freedom to the director of the CIA.

There is no accountability in this administration, and the Libby, Scooter Libby, the Scooter Libby evidence with respect to leaking is just one more example of the lack of accountability in this administration.

BLITZER: Here's what you wrote in the "New York Times" this week. You wrote, "Iraqi politicians should be told that they have until May 15th to put together an effective unity government or we will immediately withdraw our military."

What if it takes longer to do it? This is a historic, dramatic moment in Iraq. They're trying to force an alliance between Sunni, Shia, and Kurd. It's clearly not an easy matter for them, given some of the historic ethnic tensions.

KERRY: But there's been almost no legitimate, major diplomatic effort to get them to do it over the last months. You know, a quick visit of the secretary of state, with all due respect, is not real sustained and deeply engaged diplomacy. You remember Henry Kissinger and shuttle diplomacy. You remember Jim Baker and his amazing Herculean efforts to piece together a legitimate coalition.

Where is that kind of engagement by the president and highest officials to bring the Iraqi ...

BLITZER: They do have the U.S. ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, he's working tirelessly to try to do that.

KERRY: But an ambassador is not. I have great respect for Ambassador Khalilzad. He is very good. I've visited with him there. He's doing his utmost, but it takes more than an ambassador in Baghdad to make this happen. It takes a president, a vice president, secretary of state, working with the surrounding neighbors, working with the Arab League, working with the United Nations. That's why I've suggested you must have a Dayton Accords-like conference that brings people together in order to put that diplomacy on the table.

But secondly, and this is very important, the Iraqis have only responded to deadlines. It took a deadline for the transfer of the provisional government. They didn't like it, but they did it. It took a deadline for first election, a deadline for the referendum on the constitution, a deadline for the last election and they must be given a deadline, and it has to be serious. No young American soldier should be killed or lose limb or gain a major disability because Iraqi politicians can't seize this moment of democracy.

BLITZER: In that same "New York Times" article, you said even if they do put together a new government by the middle of May, which is not an easy challenge, obviously, but let's say they do. By the end of this year, you say the U.S. should pull out of Iraq. When we spoke here in the Senate on November 17th, this is what you said to me, and I'll read it to you. You said, "You set out a timetable not for withdrawal, but for success, that allows you to withdraw." You've had a change of heart since then?

KERRY: Because the situation on the ground has changed since then, and what I did say at the same time that I said we need a timetable, I said I believe we could have most of the troops out by the end of this year.

Now, the key is that back then, most people thought we were fighting the jihadists, the foreign jihadists on the ground. That has now completely transformed, and it is not the jihadists who present the greatest threat, it is a civil war that presents the greatest threat.

BLITZER: You think there is a civil war right now?

KERRY: There is a low-grade civil war. It has not yet burst out into a full-fledged civil war, but it is such. Former Prime Minister Allawi called it a civil war. It is sufficient that the problem is now principally Shia and Sunni, and the only solution, according to our own generals, General Casey said this can not be solved militarily, it must be solved politically. I believe over the next eight months, we have the ability to do that and our troops have done their job.

BLITZER: So are you running for president again?

KERRY: I honestly don't know yet. It is too early. I am working mostly on the 2006 races. I've been supporting over 135 candidates around the country. I've been in 33 states, many of them have nothing to do with presidential politics, but they have everything to do with building a broader Democratic base in the country. That's what I think we have to do, is win seats in the House and Senate, and I'm determined to try to help do it.

BLITZER: And in our CNN/"USA Today" Gallup Poll, among registered democrats, we asked their favorite choices for the 2008 presidential nomination. Senator Clinton gets 39 percent, Senator Kerry 15, Al Gore 13, John Edwards 12. What would be different between a John Kerry run, another John Kerry run, and a Hillary Clinton run? She hasn't announced she is running. But a lot of people think she will.

KERRY: First of all, I'm not going to get into a race that doesn't exist that's premature, that's just not worth your time or mine.

BLITZER: Well, Senator Biden, who's running, he says that he brings a lot more to the table in terms of his experience than Senator Clinton.

KERRY: When and if I decide that I'm going to be a candidate, I'll tell you, but I'll tell you this, I came within 60,000 votes, I won 10 million more votes than Bill Clinton did for reelection, and we exceed our goals in every precinct in America. We won a lot of seats in legislatures and elsewhere around the country. I'm proud of the campaign.

We made some mistakes. I take responsibility for them. I know that if I ran again, I've learned a lot, I won't repeat those mistakes. I think I know how to win, but it is way too early to be getting into a head-to-head analysis and I'm just not going to do that.

BLITZER: One of your former supporters was quoted in the "Boston Globe," your hometown newspaper, saying this, John Wertheim of the New Mexico Democratic Party, chairman, "I do sense that there is a feeling in the party that he," referring to John Kerry, "has had his chance, and that we need to move on to someone new. We need a real breath of fresh air, a new voice for the party." I'm sure you've heard that ...

KERRY: Some people have that feeling and they are entitled to that feeling and I respect that feeling and I will listen carefully to people. As I said, I haven't made up my mind, but I'm confident in my ability to be able to win if I make a decision to run based on the lessons learned in the race I ran last time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: John Kerry speaking with me in his Senate offices earlier today. Remember, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where political news is arriving all the time. CNN, America's campaign headquarters.

Still to come: Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney goes on the House floor to apologize to her fellow lawmakers, but is it enough? Jack Cafferty is standing by with your e-mail.

And we're keeping an eye on severe weather right now. We'll take a closer look inside storm prediction center in Norman, Oklahoma. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: And this is just coming into CNN. We're tracking a tornado touchdown in Longford, Kansas. Severe weather watches are up for parts of the plains as a powerful storm system moves through the region. CNN meteorologist Rob Marciano is at the storm prediction center in Norman, Oklahoma where the government is tracking all this severe weather. What's the latest, Rob?

ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: Well, Wolf, like you mentioned, reports of a tornado on the ground right now in Clay County. That's in Kansas, northern parts of Kansas, which is encompassed in one of the many tornado watch boxes that have been issued by the Storm Prediction Center here in Norman, Oklahoma. Off over my left shoulder is the lead forecaster on shift right now. He's about to issue yet another convective or tornado watch box out, and we already have several.

Over on this screen you can see exactly which ones are out. We've got one, two, three, four, five. Dan McCarthy with the SPC, run those down for us real quick. DAN MCCARTHY, STORM PREDICTION CENTER: Sure, we have tornado watches out in Nebraska and Kansas and Oklahoma and a severe thunderstorm watch in Texas. A new tornado watch was just issued for Arkansas, and now we're thinking of needing another watch for eastern Kansas into western Missouri, including the Kansas City area.

MARCIANO: So five, probably going to six?

MCCARTHY: Yeah. Well, we've replaced this one here, so four going to five.

MARCIANO: So tornado watches continue to go up, and as we mentioned, Wolf, we've got a tornado on the ground in northern parts of Kansas, specifically in Clay County. There will likely be more touchdowns throughout the night. We're in a high risk potential today. They only do that five, six, maybe seven or eight days a year, Wolf, so today is an active day, and it's very early in the season.

Want to point out this, the Storm Prediction Center here in Norman, Oklahoma have put out convective outlooks and watch boxes and once they do that, they kind of pass the baton over to the National Weather Forecast Office in specific areas that will then fire off warnings into the local communities. So it's an intricate system and it all starts here, really the nerve center of severe weather across the U.S. here in Norman, Oklahoma. Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Under best case circumstances, how much warning do these people have that a tornado might be getting close to their homes?

MARCIANO: Well, in a watch case they have several hours to be prepared. On a warning case, luckily with the Doppler radars that were developed or in place in 1988, those Doppler radars can shoot into the storm and develop that rotation before that tornado actually touches down, so in a best case scenario, 20, maybe even 30 minutes of heads up time before a tornado actually touches ground, thanks to the Doppler radars and the Nexrad radars that are in place.

Worst-case scenario is that they don't pick them up so quickly and they have very little warning. That's the nature of the beast here, but they're pretty good not only here, but at the local weather forecast office, and hopefully, those folks will get the warning they need to get out of harm's way. Wolf?

BLITZER: Rob is at the Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Oklahoma. Rob, thank you very much. Thank all your colleagues over there for what they're doing. We really appreciate their good work.

With the summer vacation season nearing, how would you like a round-trip business class airline ticket to Europe for $40? Forty dollars. Now hundreds of travelers are claiming they're entitled to just that, exposing some of the flaws that come with booking travel online. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is joining us with the latest. Forty dollars, not too bad!

JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Not bad, $33 U.S., $39 Canadian. There's an online community of people who are frequent flyer mile enthusiasts. They get online and talk about these things and they're notorious for pointing out flaws in the airlines, whenever they make mistakes online. Well, very early Wednesday morning, somebody noticed a glitch in an Alitalia flight, you can go from Toronto to Cyprus via Milan for $39 Canadian, translating to approximately $33 U.S. This spread fast. About 500 tickets were booked on Alitalia. Now, we spoke to them today and they say they will honor the tickets that were booked and actually ticketed, but there's also a gray area between the time you book and ticket, and those are not going to be honored, but if you book through a site like Orbitz, they are going to refund you that booking fee. We also spoke with Travelocity, that referred us back to Alitalia, and Expedia didn't return our calls. Wolf?

BLITZER: Thanks very much for that. Thirty three dollars, U.S. dollars, 39 Canadian.

Lou Dobbs is getting ready for his show at the top of the hour. Lou, what are you working on?

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up at 6:00 here on CNN Eastern Time, that is, we'll have the latest developments in the CIA White House leak case. It appears the president knew who was responsible for that leak. Also tonight, top senators congratulating themselves on tackling our illegal immigration crisis, but is it a plan to give millions of illegal aliens amnesty? Among my guests tonight are two senators, a Republican and a Democrat. We'll hear their views on amnesty, guest worker programs and border security. Senator Jeff Sessions and Senator Byron Dorgan will join us and I'll be talking with Luis Gutierrez who helped organize a huge rally against the Sensenbrenner legislation to secure our borders. We hope you'll join us for all of that and a great deal more. Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou, for that. Up ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Jesus and Judas, friends or foes? We're going to tell you about some stunning new claims found in a document containing the only known copy of the Gospel of Judas. And in our 6:00 p.m. Eastern hour, the veteran journalist Bob Schieffer of CBS News. he will join us. What does he think about today's news and reports of an intelligence leak from the White House and what does he think about Katie Couric? Stay with us.

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BLITZER: It's a major question of biblical proportion, did the disciple Judas betray Jesus? There's a new document that sheds light on that historic question. With details, Mary Snow is joining us in New York. Mary?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, so many questions being raised. Seventeen hundred years later, researchers are publishing an ancient text being called the "Gospel of Judas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): It questions the way Jesus died and what's been considered gospel for nearly 2,000 years. Was Judas Iscariot, one of the 12 disciples with Jesus in his final days really a traitor or was he the favorite disciple given a secret as part of a divine plan?

ELAINE PAGELS, "NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC": The Gospel of Judas is a real surprise. It pictures Judas not as the worst villain in the history of the world as he's always been thought of in Christian tradition, but as the one disciple whom Jesus entrusts with secret understanding.

SNOW: That secret understanding, say scholars, is contained in these writings from 300 A.D., and referred to by researches as the Gospel of Judas. The writings reveal Judas handed Jesus over to the authorities because Jesus instructed him to do so as part of a plan for salvation and not for money or because of Satan, as written in the Bible. Why is it only coming to light now? Scholars say the early church considered these secret teachings blasphemy.

PAGELS: Many of these were buried, attacked, challenged, denounced, and this text has just barely survived.

SNOW: The National Geographic Society partnered with scholars to store and translate the battered documents that were found in the desert in Egypt in the 1970s, traded on the antiquities market and the stashed inside a safe deposit box for 16 years in New York before an arts dealer returned them to Europe.

There is skepticism about their content. A Vatican historian calls the Judas gospel quote, "a product of religious fantasy." Other scholars say it changes nothing.

JAMES ROBINSON, CLAREMONT GRADUATE UNIVERSITY: It's an artificial, mythological invention of the second century.

SNOW: The scholars who studied these texts, say whether they're true or not, they add to the understanding of the complexity of Christianity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (on camera): All agree the Gospel of Judas is the subject of intense debate and interest. It's the subject of a National Geographic Channel special this Sunday. Wolf?

BLITZER: Amazing story. Thanks very much, Mary, for bringing it to us.

Up next, is Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney's apology enough? Jack Cafferty is standing by with your e-mail.

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BLITZER: Let's get right to Jack in New York. Jack?

CAFFERTY: Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney apologized for her scuffle with a capitol police officer. She called it a misunderstanding and said she regretted its escalation. The case has been referred to a federal grand jury for possible prosecution, and the question we asked is Representative Cynthia McKinney's apology enough? Most of you don't think so.

Susan in Latham, New York, "The answer's no. She made the mountain out of a molehill. Now that it backfired, she trying to make it quietly go away without repercussion. I hope there's an indictment."

Tom in Springfield, Virginia, "Her apology is disingenuous. It only came after the possibility of felony charges. She has a history of confrontations with police officers who are just doing their job. If the authorities back down, it will be more proof that playing the race card works."

Dawn in Grand Island, Nebraska, "Yes, it's enough. She's one of the few, if any blacks, who have fraudulently played the race card and subsequently apologized. She is to be commended."

Mike in El Dorado Hills, California, "Representative Cynthia McKinney is an embarrassment to every citizen of this country. If I'd voted for her, I'd be holding my head in shame. Her apology comes only after she realized that her shopworn race card didn't work. In the process, she's done more to set back race relations in this country this year than anyone I can recall."

And finally, from Mike in Tucker, Georgia, "As a Democratic voter in Cynthia McKinney's district, I think her apology is enough. She's going to lose in the upcoming primary as she did in 2002 and that will be her punishment. McKinney's an embarrassment to our district."

BLITZER: Jack, I'll see you in an hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Remember, we're in THE SITUATION ROOM weekday afternoons 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. Back at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. An hour from now, among my guests, Senator John Kerry and Bob Schieffer, the anchor of the CBS Evening News.

Until then, thanks very much for joining us. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starts right now. Lou?

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