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The Situation Room
President Bush's Poll Numbers At New Low; Political Jeopardy For Bush; No Deal On Senate Immigration Bill; Severe Weather In Nashville, Tennessee Area; McCain Running For President?; Mitt Romney And Universal Health Insurance; President Bush Tries To Put Emphasis On Economic Strength
Aired April 07, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Fred.
To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. The president's poll numbers plummeting again to a new low as his problems seem to be adding up to a new high. Is it just a matter of not getting his message out? The White House argues that some leaks are in the public interest, but will the latest revelations about intelligence leaks sink the president in a sea of public disapproval?
On Capitol Hill, the Senate goes from breakthrough to bust on an immigration bill. Within the span of a few hours, the backslapping turns to backstabbing and a compromise is lost. What went wrong?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Is something missing in his message? From one end of his agenda to the other, President Bush's problems are mounting as his poll numbers are plunging. Mr. Bush scored his lowest-ever rating in the latest AP-Ipsos poll released today. Just 36 percent of the public approves of his job performance.
Let's go live to our White House correspondent Ed Henry -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, perhaps most ominous is that poll shows only 40 percent of the public approving of the president's performance on the war on terror which is supposed to be his strength. That may explain why the president's push today on the economy could be overshadowed by other events.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): President Bush celebrating five million new jobs created on his watch.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Evidence of an economic resurgence that is strong, broad, and benefiting all Americans. HENRY: Meanwhile in Iraq, the bloodiest attack in three months. Three suicide bombers attacked a Shiite mosque, killing at least 71 people and wounding 164. The president now faces new questions about his justification for that war after the revelation that Lewis "Scooter" Libby, indicted former top aide to Vice President Cheney, has testified the president himself authorized the release of highly sensitive information to refute critics of the war.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: So he, the president of the United States, must tell the American people whether the Bushes -- President Bush's Oval Office is a place where the buck stops, or the leaks start.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That's just crass politics.
HENRY: White House spokesman Scott McClellan tried to make a distinction. Since the president has the legal right to declassify, he wasn't really leaking.
MCCLELLAN: The declassifying information and providing it to the public when it is in the public interest is one thing. But leaking classified information that could compromise our national security is something that is very serious.
HENRY: But Democrats charge the president engaged in selective leaking for political purposes, not in the public interest, and misled Americans when he made this pledge nearly three years ago.
BUSH: There's just too many leaks. And if there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is.
HENRY: The White House faced a barrage of questions about the fact that on July 18, 2003, McClellan said the intelligence information in question had been declassified that day. But Scooter Libby started discussing some of the sensitive information with reporters on July 8, 2003, 10 days before McClellan said the information was no longer classified.
MCCLELLAN: I'll have to take a look at it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: There's still no evidence the president authorized the leak of the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson, but this new information does suggest that the president was right in the middle of the campaign to discredit her husband, war critic Joe Wilson, and that is what has given Democrats a golden opportunity, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Ed Henry at the White House.
By the way, that AP-Ipsos poll highlights another huge problem for the president. On an issue the GOP has dominated for decades, Republicans are now locked in a tie with Democrats as who they trust to do a better job of protecting the country. Respondents gave each party 41 percent, a significant number right there. So when is a leak not necessarily a leak? And when is a leak damaging? Let's turn to our chief national correspondent, John King. He is following all of this for us.
Let's just walk through the president's -- according to Scooter Libby, and we don't know if he's telling the truth or not. He's accused of lying to begin with. But assuming he's telling the truth, the president authorized him through the vice president to release this classified information to Judith Miller of the "New York Times." And then about, what, 10 days later they declassified a chunk, a portion of that National Intelligence Estimate, but not the whole thing. Is that right?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A portion of it. They gave it out at the White House briefing room. And, remember that at the time, they were under attack. Joe Wilson and others were saying the president cherry-picked intelligence.
The president ignored some intelligence that was contrary to his case of war in Iraq. The White House was trying to aggressively rebut those arguments. We know the president and the vice president were in the political meetings over what to do.
Now the question is, of course, did he give Scooter Libby authority to leak the information? There's nothing illegal about that. The president has that power, but in the nine months left of Scooter Libby's trial, every disclosure, it seems, adds to the big political debate.
BLITZER: Now, the sanitized version that they declassified that's a portion of the original, do we know whether Judith Miller received portions of the still classified NIE, National Intelligence Estimate, or do we assume that Scooter Libby only gave her information that was declassified 10 days later?
KING: We don't know the answer to that, because in that 10-day period, from the conversation with Judith Miller to the White House handing it out in the briefing room, Judith Miller never wrote a story. She wrote stories after that and then she wrote an account during the grand jury proceedings of her dealings with Scooter Libby. But we don't know if she received different or more sensitive information, or less information than the White House handed out in public.
BLITZER: Scooter Libby, a man both of us know, he's a lawyer, a highly successful attorney in private practice. We're told in this document that was released in court yesterday that he went to the legal adviser to the vice president and wanted to make sure that he could provide this information to Judith Miller. How significant is that?
KING: Well, it's very significant, because, as you noted, Scooter Libby is viewed as an expert on national security matters and the legal aspects of national security arguments. If there's one person in the administration who is viewed as a greater authority, it's the man went to, David Addington, who was then the vice president's counsel.
He's now the vice president's chief of staff. He replaced Scooter Libby. He has worked at the CIA. He's worked on Capitol Hill. He worked with Dick Cheney at the Pentagon in the first Bush administration. He's viewed as an authority on national security law.
He is also viewed as an authority, and someone who pushes vigorously, for presidential powers, keeping documents secret, asserting that the president has the authority to do things that many have questioned. He helped write the policy saying it's OK in some cases to torture detainees in the war on terror.
And I'm told by several sources that when they were renewing the Patriot Act some people came to him about the spying program, the domestic eavesdropping program and said let's bring the Congress in. Let's get Congressional approval and he said no, the president has this power.
He's someone who believes in presidential authority. And in this case he told Scooter Libby if the president says you can have this conversation, you can reveal this classified information, then you can do it.
BLITZER: The bottom line the president may be in no legal jeopardy, but politically this is hugely embarrassing.
KING: It plays right into what the Democrat are trying to say, that the president says one thing, I don't like leaks. He does another, authorizes leaks. It also gets to the Iraq war, the debate about intelligence at a time the president is down. Any Republican around town, even as Scott McClellan tried to say "crass politics," says if I were in the Democrats shoes, I would hit this hard.
BLITZER: John, thanks very much. John's our chief national correspondent.
Coming up, are there proper leaks and are there improper leaks? Is there a difference between a presidential leak and presidential declassification? Is the White House drawing too fine a line? Our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, is going to be standing by. He'll join us with that.
But there are other important developments happening here in Washington right now. Not too many hours ago, senators were hailing a compromise bill that would have left millions of illegal immigrants -- would have allowed them to become, eventually, American citizens. But right now there's no deal as the Senate heads off to a two-week break. What exactly happened?
For some answers let's turn to our Congressional correspondent, Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the answer to your question, what happened, certainly depends on whom you ask, but there is no question that the backslapping, the high-fiving on immigration yesterday has now been replaced by fingerpointing and uncertainty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): What a difference a day makes in the U.S. Senate. Yesterday jubilation.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: We've had a huge breakthrough.
BASH: Today remorse.
REID: It slipped through our fingers.
BASH: Yesterday bipartisan celebration.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: It's a win-win for everybody. And I think both Democrats and Republicans will be proud.
BASH: Today partisan fingerpointing.
SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: This is a tragedy because this did not need to happen this way.
BASH: Tragedy, these senators say, because they all still agree on a compromise they thought they would never find on a highly controversial issue, putting millions of illegal immigrants on a path to citizenship.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: That agreement would get 65 or 70 votes. And it's not going away.
BASH: So why then did a key vote on the immigration measure fail? On the surface, it got tangled in a procedural squabble over whether senators could offer amendments. But in the freewheeling Senate, the procedure is all about politics.
The Democratic leader refused to allow any amendments calling it a ruse by some Republicans to destroy a carefully crafted agreement because they see the compromise as amnesty for illegal immigrants.
REID: The amendments were being offered by people who didn't want the bill.
BASH: But Republicans accuse Democrats of playing election year politics.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: There is political advantage for the Democrats not to have an immigration bill.
BASH: They say Democrats want to deny the GOP leader, Senator Bill Frist, from claiming a much needed victory in a high stakes issue. And, Republicans charge, Democrats want to be able to make the case this campaign year that the only GOP-passed bill on immigration is the House version that would impose new penalties on illegal immigrants and people who help them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now the Senate is going home for a two-week recess. Frustrated Democrats and Republicans vow they are going to keep fighting to have some kind of immigration overhaul this year. They hope that there are massive demonstrations planned for Monday. They hope that those will help their cause. But the bottom line, Wolf, is that the Senate majority leader today did not make a commitment to bring this issue back to the floor this election year.
BLITZER: Dana, thank you very much. Dana Bash on Capitol Hill.
Let's go to New York. Jack Cafferty is standing by with "The Cafferty File." Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani could well be laying the groundwork for a presidential bid. "The New York Times" reporting this morning Giuliani has been campaigning, raising money around the country for various Republican candidates.
It's all an effort to help his party stay in control of Congress. He's also been defending the White House positions on Iraq and on immigration. And his political point man speaks regularly with Karl Rove and the Republican party chairman.
Giuliani's advisers say he'll decide around the end of the year if he wants to seek the Republican nomination. Some sources close to the former mayor say that Giuliani thinks his support for abortion right, gay rights and gun control could make winning the nomination difficult. But recent polls show Giuliani at the top of the pack, along with Senator John McCain, when it comes to registered Republican's choice for 2008.
So the question is this. What kind of national candidate would Rudy Giuliani make? You can e-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile - Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jack. And we're just getting this in, tracking an important developing story, severe weather in the Nashville, Tennessee, area. We're already seeing some homes damaged. Take a look at these pictures. We're going to go live and get an update. That's coming up.
Also, Senator John McCain. Will the Republican firebrand make one more run for the White House? Right now his actions are speaking louder than his words. We're going to show you what he's up to.
And another possible White House contender scores a health care coup, earning our "Political Play of the Week." Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider is standing by with that.
And the legal ramifications of the latest White House leak revelations. Our senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin, he'll join us in THE SITUATION ROOM. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: There's severe weather in major parts of the country right now, including tornadoes. And especially this one. We're just getting these live pictures in. I want to show you what is going on in Charlotte, Tennessee. That's west of Nashville. Take a look at these live pictures we're getting in from Charlotte, Tennessee. We'll put those up on the screen. We also have a report. There's these live pictures coming in from Charlotte, Tennessee; Nashville, Tennessee.
But we're going to give you a report that was filed only a few moments ago from our affiliate reporter LaCheryl Tucker of WTVF.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LACHERYL TUCKER, WTVF REPORTER: I'm standing along Maple Valley Road in Charlotte. You see some of the damage behind me now. What you're actually looking at, this is a home plus a mobile home, a trailer. The trailer was actually located on the other side of the street. I'm told when the storm came through, it blew the trailer across the street into this home. Now the two have become just one big mess.
Now this damage that you see, you can see it all along this street. Actually to the left of me, you have some more damage. There's a trailer home back there sort of knocked off its foundation. If we keep going, you can see that windows blown out of this home, plus some downed trees and a lot of downed power lines.
Now people have been out here all day -- not all day -- I should say in the past hour, trying to get the trees out of the location, out of the road. As far as searching for those inside, there were some families inside these homes that were damaged. We did talk with some of them. They only received minor injuries. That is a very good thing.
Now, on tape you're about to hear from a woman who says her home is the only one that's pretty much standing along here. She said it hit too close to home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It come right over me, right over my barn. My barn sits down the hill. I had sought refuge in the barn because it's off field (ph). Heard the storm coming. I left there, went down to the creek bed, and hunkered down underneath some big trees and golf-ball size hail was hitting me. And I just kind of covered up with my jacket. Went right over my head. I mean, it was gone as quick as -- I mean, as quick as it started coming, it was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose house is that right there?
TUCKER: Again, we're standing along Maple Valley Road in Charlotte. This is in Dickson County, where emergency crews remain along the area, trying to make sure that they will not find anyone inside the homes. So far, they found about four people who received minor injuries.
We have heard about -- reported damage across Dickson County so we're going to try to make our over there to see what else we can find.
Live in Dickson County, LaCheryl Tucker, News Channel 5.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And let's get the big picture now of what's going on.
(WEATHER REPORT)
BLITZER: Tom Foreman is here in THE SITUATION ROOM. You're looking closely at the severe weather. What are you seeing, Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I tell you something, let's move all of the radar out of the way and just take a look at the sheer number we're talking about here. This is that big cluster that we're talking about in that area. We put it up simply.
Look at all these storms hammering that part of the country. You add to that a little bit more, that makes it even more complex when you look about it, because what we've got is not just that, but also hailstorms. All the yellow marks are all the hailstorms.
Over here, you see video of the damage done by these very storms we're showing you here in Tennessee. And if you back up a little bit, look at what we had on Thursday. We had more of this going on in different parts of the country. Look at this, over here in Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas, that area we had all of these storms stacking up.
And then back on Sunday, we really had the worst of all these days, which are worth looking at here. Look at this. This is what we've had this week alone. Enormous cluster all through the middle of the country. And the reason all of this happens is something we all know well. This is all on the edge of something we've all heard about many times, tornado alley.
It's loosely defined by a lot of people but you can see that this is all on edge of that area, very common for this type of year. This time of year, not always that common for them to stack up this way. And the middle of the country is completely getting hammered right now by storms that are doing all this damage and these are those storms.
BLITZER: Nashville and Wichita, Kansas, among other parts of the country. Tom, thank you very much. We'll continue to watch these tornadoes, watch the severe weather.
We're also watching more on the latest White House leak revelations. We'll talk about that in our "Strategy Session." Our political analyst Torie Clarke, Paul Begala, standing by.
And Senator John McCain mending fences within his own party. Is he paving the way for another White House bid? Details of what he's saying and doing. All that coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Back now to our top story and it's still developing: the possible legal implications concerning the leaking of classified information out of the White House. On the phone with us is our senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin.
Jeff, you closely studied this 38-page document that the prosecutor, the special counsel, has put forward. What, if anything, did you learn about Scooter Libby's strategy, his legal strategy in fighting these charge against him.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (on phone): Well the document deals with the question of document discovery. So it doesn't deal with this overall strategy. But the implication I strongly draw from the document is that the reason Libby is raising the issue of his authorization to disclose classified information, is that it goes to the issue of motive.
He's charged with perjury in this case. So he's not claiming he was authorized to lie to the grand jury. What he's claiming is that he was authorized to talk to reporters. So the argument would go, why would he lie about his conversation with reporters? He was authorized to do it? He had no motive to lie. So that's why I think the issue is coming up now and certainly is likely to come up at the trial.
BLITZER: The White House is not commenting specifically on his insistence that the president and the vice president personally authorized him to release classified information from this national intelligence estimate to a reporter from "The New York Times." The fact that the White House is not addressing that, saying it's true or not true, what does that say about his credibility?
TOOBIN: Frankly I don't think it says much because I think the White House is regarding this at the moment as a political problem. If the White House were to say anything, it would simply extend this controversy. The Democrats don't control either the House or the Senate.
They have no way of holding hearings. They have no way of perpetuating this issue in front of the public. The White House, I think cleverly is saying nothing hoping that the story will simply die down until there's another court filing in the case that addresses this issue.
BLITZER: And legally there's no question or maybe there is a question, let me just get your sense, legally does the president and the vice president, do they both have the unquestioned authority to declassify information, sensitive information, at will? Willy-nilly if you want, without going through any process?
TOOBIN: In the context of a criminal case, I think the answer is yes. They do have that right. And there is no way they could be charged or implicated in any sort of criminal wrongdoing in connection with this kind of disclosure.
There's an executive order that addresses this directly. I think the inherent powers of the presidency probably give the president this power. Did they follow the exact correct procedures for declassifying information? That may be an open question. But certainly that's nothing you could build a criminal case out of. So I think in terms of the authorization to disclose, the White House is really in the clear here.
BLITZER: Jeff Toobin, thank you very much. Much more coming up on this story.
Also other stories we're following. In Massachusetts, that state has a reputation for being fiercely independent. But could its solution to the nation's healthcare crisis spark imitators across the country? That's our political play of the week and it's coming up.
And the White House says it was in the public interest to release classified information on Iraq. But could that end up hurting Republicans in this year's midterm elections? We're going to take a closer look at that question right here in our "Strategy Session." You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're watching the story involving a presidential leak, allegedly, according to his -- the vice president's former chief of staff -- much more on that coming up in our "Strategy Session."
We have got some other developments that we're following, though, right now -- a whistleblower saying his former employer, namely, the telecom giant AT&T, helped the U.S. government's National Security Agency conduct domestic spying.
Let's bring our national security correspondent, David Ensor. He has been watching this story -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is about a lawsuit filed by a civil liberties group called Electronic Freedom Foundation. That was filed in late January.
What is new is a statement filed with federal court in San Francisco from a former AT&T employee named Mark Klein, in which he says that, a few years back, the company cooperated with the U.S. National Security Agency to install equipment for -- quote -- "vacuum cleaner surveillance" of e-mail messages and Internet traffic. That's according to Klein's lawyer, Miles Ehrlich, in Berkeley, California.
Ehrlich told me that Klein describes a special room inside an AT&T building in San Francisco which is controlled by NSA personnel and contains equipment that can sift through large amounts of Internet traffic. The so far sealed statement and supporting documents were submitted in support of the lawsuit's charge that the telecom giant violated law and its customers privacy by helping the NSA wiretap and data-mine American citizens' communications.
Now, both the NSA and the AT&T -- and the company, AT&T, declined comment, though the company does confirm that Klein used to work there. Administration officials, Bush administration officials, have consistently said that the surveillance program the president authorized in late 2001, which monitors some domestic communications, only does so when one party is outside the country and when at least one party is suspected of ties to a terrorist group.
But this one bears watching, Wolf, because the lawsuit charges broader surveillance than that. And now there's a former insider helping the plaintiffs.
BLITZER: We will watch it closely, together with you. Thanks very much, David, for that.
Will he or won't he? That would be the Republican Senator John McCain. He isn't saying yet if he will run again for president of the United States in 2008. But his actions may be speaking much louder than his words, at least right now.
Our chief national correspondent, John King, once again is joining us with the story -- John.
KING: Well, Wolf, fresh from disappointment in the immigration debate, Senator McCain is going on the road tonight, six states over the next week. Plus, he says it's all about helping candidates in '06. First stop, the first presidential primary state of New Hampshire, making some believe it's about something else, too.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Good morning, sir. How you doing?
KING (voice-over): Senator McCain insists, his final decision won't come until after this November's election. But, with his trademark sarcasm, the 69-year-old senator says he has no worries about another grueling campaign.
MCCAIN: I actually am older than dirt. I have got more scars than Frankenstein, but I have learned a few things along the way. And my health is excellent.
KING: Travels to New Hampshire, Florida, Arkansas, Ohio, Minnesota and Iowa are on tap over the next week, as McCain helps 2006 GOP candidates and tries to shape the Republican mid-term agenda, urging patience in Iraq, and pushing for more emphasis on spending cuts and lobbying reform.
MCCAIN: We are in trouble because maybe we have lost our way, to some degree.
KING: John McCain's way can rub the wrong way.
MCCAIN: Don't put it all in tax cuts.
KING: In campaign 2000, he angered economic conservatives by criticizing the Bush tax cuts as too big, and social conservatives by calling Falwell and Pat Robertson agents of intolerance.
Now Falwell says it's all forgiven, and he wants to help McCain mend fences.
REVEREND JERRY FALWELL, CHANCELLOR, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: In some places, he may have to -- he may have to eat a little crow. I don't think he minds that, any more than I would.
KING: Count Iowa Christian conservative leader Steve Scheffler among the skeptics, worried McCain wants rhetorical peace, but still views social conservatives with disdain.
STEVE SCHEFFLER, PRESIDENT, IOWA CHRISTIAN ALLIANCE: Again, not crawling on broken glass, but he's certainly going to have communicate with them. And we're going to have to see if he's genuine.
KING: Like his new alliance with Falwell, McCain's votes to extend the Bush tax cuts he once opposed are viewed as pandering by some, the value of experience by others.
SCOTT REED, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You learn to recognize what really matters and what affects voters and how you win the nomination.
KING: Straight talk is more than McCain's slogan and the name of a political action committee he uses to support Republicans across the country. It is an image that helps him among Democrats and independents.
MCCAIN: And that's why I'm a little concerned about this, stories about -- quote -- "pandering," because then I use my really reason for credibility, to a large degree. And, so, I intend to try to make sure people are aware of my entire record. But I understand that, whenever I do something now, it gets a lot of visibility and scrutiny. It goes with the territory.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: It goes with the territory, Wolf, of being, even though it's very, very early, the clear Republican front-runner -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for that, John -- John King reporting.
Today, in our "Strategy Session," the White House strongly defending its release of classified information on Iraq. And some new polls show some new lows for President Bush.
Joining us now, our political analyst, the former Pentagon spokeswoman Torie Clarke, and another one of our political analysts, Democratic strategist Paul Begala.
Let's talk a little bit about the CIA leak -- the latest Scooter Libby revelation in these court papers that were filed this week.
Here is how Scott McClellan, the embattled White House press secretary, answered this question earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCLELLAN: Declassifying information and providing it to the public, when it is in the public interest is one thing. But leaking classified information that could compromise our national security is something that is very serious. And there's a distinction. Now, there are Democrats out there that fail to recognize that distinction or refuse to recognize the distinction. They are simply engaging in crass politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. I want you to respond as a Democrat engaging in crass politics.
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL BEGALA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'm not -- I'm not going to engage. I'm just going to engage in sympathy. Rest in peace, White House credibility. I mean, come on. That's just preposterous. It's -- they leaked, at the president's order, according to the papers filed by Mr. Fitzgerald.
BLITZER: If you believe Scooter Libby.
BEGALA: But the papers filed by Mr. Fitzgerald...
BLITZER: Right.
BEGALA: ... who clearly does repeat, at least, what Libby testified.
The president of the United States ordered the leak of classified information, cherry-picked out of the national intelligence estimate, to mislead the country. Had he declassified the whole national intelligence estimate, we would have seen that, in that same document, the CIA pooh-poohed the claim that somehow Saddam was trying to by uranium in Africa.
In fact, their phrase was, we have "low confidence" in the uranium claim. Later, the CIA in the document says it's inconclusive. President Bush didn't leak those parts. He just leaked the parts to mislead the country to go into war. That's a pretty awful thing to find out.
BLITZER: What do you think?
VICTORIA CLARKE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's important to be precise. This isn't about Valerie Plame. This isn't about everything leading up to the start of the Iraq war.
It was about some of the intel that contributed to the decision to go to war. What is somewhat ironic about this is in -- end of 2002, 2003, for a long time, a lot of Democrats have been saying, declassify more information. We understand you can't declassify everything, because of security, but declassify more information.
That's exactly what they were doing. This was not about Valerie Plame.
BLITZER: But, at that time...
(CROSSTALK)
CLARKE: This was -- now, wait. Wait, and let me read something.
BLITZER: Yes.
CLARKE: In "The Washington Post" today, no big fan, editorially, of this president...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: No. Well, they are a huge fan of this war.
CLARKE: "Legal experts say that President Bush had the unquestionable authority to approve the disclosure of secret CIA information to reporters."
And he was doing exactly what a lot of people...
BLITZER: Well...
CLARKE: ... including a lot of Democrats, were calling for.
BLITZER: Because the -- to the average person out there, they will hear what the president used to say -- and I will play a clip -- and they will be confused, to put it mildly. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I know of nobody -- I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I would like to know it. And we will take the appropriate action. And this investigation is a good thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, now, when Scooter Libby leaked that classified information to Judy Miller, it was all classified at that time.
CLARKE: Who knows exactly what Scooter Libby said to Judy Miller. I will set that aside, because I don't know.
The president there was responding to a specific question about the leaking of a CIA agent's name, which is a very, very serious problem. The president has wide latitude, unquestionable latitude, to declassify information and put it out.
BLITZER: The president does have that authority.
CLARKE: That is what he was doing.
BLITZER: And he granted that authority to the vice president as well.
BEGALA: He does.
I'm not saying that this is a crime. I'm saying it's a lie. Sixty days after the president ordered the leaking of highly selective and misleading nuggets out of the national intelligence estimate, he went on television -- just there, we saw the tape -- and said, oh, it's bad to leak classified information. That is...
CLARKE: He authorized the declassification...
BEGALA: There's no other word for it. That's just a lie.
CLARKE: ... of information and the release of it. He authorized the declassification of information.
BEGALA: Why didn't he say, then -- why didn't he say, I often release selective information to mislead the American people?
CLARKE: It was actually...
BEGALA: That would be truthful.
CLARKE: It was actually widely discussed at the time.
Suzanne Malveaux of CNN did a story on it, on the declassification of information from the NIE. And it was in response to...
BLITZER: That was about 10 days later.
CLARKE: Right. And it was in response...
BEGALA: Why do you suppose he didn't leak...
CLARKE: ... to many of the requests.
BEGALA: Why didn't he leak that the CIA said they low confidence in the claim that Saddam was buying uranium, and that it was inconclusive?
CLARKE: My recollection was, they declassified about 60 to 80 pages of the national intelligence estimate.
BEGALA: Not for this leak, though. Ultimately, they did, but not for this leak.
BLITZER: Here's the problem the president has right now. And this AP-Ipsos poll underscores it. How is President Bush handling his job as president? Only 36 percent approve. That's a record low in this poll for the president.
How is President Bush handling the situation in Iraq? Only 35 percent approval of the way he's handling the situation in Iraq. And, finally, which party do you want to win control of Congress, which is a critical question in this new poll. Thirty-three percent say Republicans. Forty-nine percent say Democrats.
Those numbers bode very ill for the president and his party.
CLARKE: I think it's going to be a very challenging year for a lot of Republicans. Whether or not they get reelected this fall has more to do with their personal jobs and how they're doing than the president. That's the good news for them, in the midst of the challenge.
The president clearly taking a real hammering in the polls. The only good news is, he looks at the numbers that he cares about, the fact that unemployment is in a historic low, that productivity is up, the stock market is up, hourly average wages are up. He looks at those things and say, those are the numbers that really matter.
BLITZER: But he's not getting a lot of credit for all those positive numbers.
CLARKE: I got to tell you, we have -- we have talked about this before -- he doesn't care about him. He doesn't care about credit for credit's sake. He cares about the ability to get the job done. Having an incredibly strong economy, making some progress, albeit in very challenge circumstances in Iraq...
BLITZER: Very quickly, I will let Paul respond.
CLARKE: ... are important things.
BEGALA: This week only, this week, look what this president has presided over.
Tom DeLay, his best friend in the House, the House majority leader, resigns under indictment. A Homeland Security official in his government is investigated and arrested for allegedly being a pedophile. We learn the president himself authorized the leak of classified information. His immigration bill has collapsed on Capitol Hill.
And, today, the attorney general -- yesterday, the attorney general testified that the president does have the power to wiretap you and me in domestic conversations, as David Ensor was reporting about in that lawsuit, without a wiretap, without a -- permission from a court.
That's a staggering week. And, so, they are going to look back at 36 percent, where the president is today, and going to think it's the good old days. He's going to go down to six.
BLITZER: We will see -- we will see, though if the Democrats can capitalize on all those Republican problems.
As you well know -- and you wrote a book on this -- it's not necessarily a done deal, until the deal is done.
BEGALA: That's a good point.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, guys, for joining us.
CLARKE: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Coming up, there's a severe storm heading toward the Nashville area. We're going to go back to that area live. Will check in with our CNN Severe Weather Center to see what is going on. You're looking at some of these pictures.
Also, more on an embattled President Bush trying to draw attention to economic success. He talked to our CNN personal finance editor, Gerri Willis, earlier today. She is standing by to tell us here in THE SITUATION ROOM what she heard in the West Wing of the White House.
Plus, a conservative governor in a liberal state drawing all sides together with an innovative solution to the health care crisis. We're going to show you who that would be in our "Political Play of the Week" -- Bill Schneider standing by.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Live picture of Nashville, Tennessee, not far away -- another tornado apparently has hit the ground.
Let's bring in Reynolds Wolf. He's watching all of these tornadoes.
What's the latest, Reynolds?
(WEATHER REPORT)
BLITZER: All right, Reynolds, thank you very much.
WOLF: You bet.
BLITZER: We're going to continue to monitor these tornadoes, all the severe weather happening in major parts of the country right now.
Could a far-reaching health care deal help a governor reach for higher office?
Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, has been looking into that question. He's joining us now live from the newsroom -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, the Massachusetts miracle of the 1980s helped Governor Michael Dukakis win his party's nomination for president.
This week, new governor, new miracle, new "Political Play of the Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): It's the new Massachusetts miracle, universal health insurance. GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: To get Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, all to come together and say, you know what, getting everyone health insurance is so important, we're going to put aside our major differences. We're going to find a way to do this.
SCHNEIDER: The plan is an elaborate compromise hammered out among Democratic legislative leaders, Republican Governor Mitt Romney, Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy, and the Bush administration.
They devised a plan that borrowed from right and left, one run by private companies, but subsidized by the state.
ROMNEY: The door to taxes is closed. We're not going down the door to Taxachusetts.
SCHNEIDER: Here is something to watch for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, next week, there will be this very photogenic signing of the health care bill at Faneuil Hall. Ted Kennedy will be linking arms with Mitt Romney. It will be quite a love fest.
SCHNEIDER: Is that a way for Romney to get the Republican nomination? It is, if you think Bush fatigue is setting in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be a sense of, we're really tired of all this bickering and this gridlock, and promote some actual bipartisan progress. And this will be a symbol of that.
SCHNEIDER: Michael Dukakis' Massachusetts miracle, a booming economy, soured very quickly, as the economy faltered and revenues dried up. That could happen again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You certainly will hear all about the wonderful, gauzy tale of how Mitt Romney brought Massachusetts to the promised land of universal health care. Check back with us in a couple of years to see if that's what actually happens.
SCHNEIDER: We will. But, for now, we will call it the "Political Play of the Week."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The basic premise of the Massachusetts plan is simple. If the state can require every driver to buy automobile insurance, it should be able to require every citizen to buy health insurance. And, by the way, a senator from another state who claims to know a lot about health care -- her name is Hillary Clinton -- said the governor's deal was commendable, and she may be running for president, too, against Governor Romney -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We will be seeing. That could be fascinating. Bill, thank you very much, Bill Schneider with his "Political Play of the Week." Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the life of Jesus making many people rich, from the puzzles and the secret messages in the book "The Da Vinci Code," to the blockbuster movie based on that book coming soon with Tom Hanks. We're going to tell you about the growing fascination with the life of Jesus. That's coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And why did President Bush meet with some business reporters earlier today over at the White House? It appears he has got some good news to push. We're going to tell you what that is.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The U.S. economy added more than 200,000 jobs last month. And President Bush says his tax cuts are partially responsible. With the president's poll numbers weak almost across the board, the White House is trying to put the spotlight on economic strength.
CNN personal finance editor Gerri Willis was over at the White House this morning. She is here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
You were not only at the White House. You were with the president in the Oval Office. Tell our viewers how that came about and what happened.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Well, I got a mysterious phone call a couple of days ago from the White House, saying, why don't you come to a roundtable with some other economic correspondents? And we will sit around and we will talk about the economy with the president?
So, of course, I said, I would love to do that. And we were ushered into the Oval Office and sat down. The president exchanged a few words first, talked a little bit about what he saw as the issues emerging. And then we had a back-and-forth, with a lot of questions.
Now, there were many things did he not talk about that I know a lot of politicos would like to talk about. But one of the main messages...
BLITZER: Like Scooter Libby, for example.
WILLIS: That was off the table.
BLITZER: Yes.
WILLIS: He wasn't going there. He said: There's an ongoing investigation. I'm not talking about it.
But he did talk about the economy. And he has got the entire Treasury Department pounding the stump on the economy and what he perceives as very good numbers. And I got to tell you, some of these numbers, 4.7 percent March unemployment, that's a very good number, a four-year low. Two hundred and eleven thousand jobs created in March, that's a lot of jobs, compares favorably, surprised economics -- economists, pardon me -- on both scores, very good numbers.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: What did he say about this huge budget deficit and the national debt, which is almost spiraling out of control?
WILLIS: He says he has a plan for getting rid of the deficit. He's on track to do that by, I believe, 2008. He's working on it.
The numbers will come around, he says, he promises. He also says that personal income has risen 8 percent, in real terms, since he took office.
BLITZER: Did he -- did he offer a vote of confidence in his treasury secretary, John Snow?
WILLIS: Now, I have to tell you, what he said was that Treasury Secretary Snow is doing a good job. He didn't go any further than that, but, as you know, Snow has sort of been in the crosshairs, people talking about whether he's going to have to leave or not.
And -- and one point of, I guess, skepticism in this meeting, we were talking about jobs, the economy and growth. Of course, people don't live in the broad economy. They live in towns and cities all over the country. And if you're in an industry like the auto industry, if you're in an industry like the airline industry, you have been facing a pretty tough time.
So, people's experience of this may be very different than the numbers the president is putting out.
BLITZER: I'm sure the president would like to talk about the economy all day, as opposed to Scooter Libby...
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: ... or Iraq or lots of other problems that he has on his agenda.
Gerri Willis, thanks very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, Gerri hosts an important show every weekend, Saturday mornings, 9:30 a.m., "OPEN HOUSE WITH GERRI WILLIS." If you haven't seen it, it's a good time to watch it -- an excellent show. You will learn something about information you need to know.
Stay with us. We're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Coming up, Senator John Edwards, he will be in THE SITUATION ROOM as well. I will ask the former Democratic vice presidential nominee if he's running for president in 2008. That interview with John Edwards, that is coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Plus, your answers to our question of the hour: What kind of national candidate would Rudy Giuliani make? Jack Cafferty standing by with your e-mail.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Let's go to New York -- Jack Cafferty standing by with "The Cafferty File."
Hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: How you doing, Wolf?
Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani may be laying the groundwork for a presidential run in '08 -- "The New York Times" reporting that the former New York mayor has been campaigning, raising money around the country for various Republican candidates.
So, we thought we would ask: What kind of national candidate do you think Rudy Giuliani would make?
Matt writes from Casper, Wyoming: "As a Democrat, Rudy Giuliani is the only Republican I can imagine voting for. As long as he doesn't go into 'crazy base land,' I would be quite happy with a President Giuliani."
Matthew says: "Rudy Giuliani should be the clear choice. He has common sense, a vision for the country, and, most importantly, respect from the public. We need a president who will follow his convictions and not those of big business, special interests or lobbyists. And Rudy is that man."
Richard in Greenlawn, New York: "As a former resident of New York City, I can tell you that Rudy only had one good day in his entire mayoral tenure. Fortunately for all of us, that day was September 11, 2001. Unfortunately, that one day does not make him fit for the presidency."
Sharon in Temperance, Michigan -- there's a name for a town, Temperance -- "How would the fact that he carried on a very public affair while still married sit with the religious right? He makes Bill Clinton look like a choir boy."
Matt in Flemington, New Jersey: "Giuliani is a true leader. After seeing his positive effects on New York City, one could only imagine what he could do for the entire nation. He has my vote."
And Curtis in Portland, Maine, writes: "Jack, let me check my facts on Giuliani. He's from New York. He is pro-choice. He has had a very public extramarital affair. What kind of national candidate would Giuliani make? He would make a great Democratic candidate." Coming up on "IN THE MONEY" this weekend, that tidy little business program we do, we are going to talk to the Massachusetts governor. That state is on the verge of becoming the first one in the union to require mandatory health insurance for all its citizens. Governor Romney talks about how the plan will work, who is going to pay for it, and whether it's the kind of thing that could be done nationwide.
He's also a man rumored to be thinking about that presidential run also, along with Giuliani and perhaps John McCain.
So, it's an interesting discussion. We hope you will join us. "IN THE MONEY" airs Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00, Eastern Daylight Time. And we invite you to check it out -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We certainly will. Good get. Thanks very much, Jack, for that.
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