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The Situation Room
Dramatic Day of Immigration Demonstrations; Bush Speaks out on Iran Accusations; Iraq War Vet Running as Republican in Texas
Aired April 10, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, hundreds of thousands of people on the march for immigration reform. It's 1:00 p.m. in Phoenix, Arizona, one of several cities where demonstrations are beginning right now. Can the protesters break the immigration impasse on Capitol Hill?
Also this hour, how far would President Bush go to stop Iran from building nuclear weapons? It's 4:00 here in Washington where Mr. Bush is dismissing a stunning new report as, quote, "wild speculation." The president is trying to cool another red-hot controversy, his release of classified documents to build support for the Iraq war. Will his words satisfy critics who are calling on the White House to, quote, "come clean?"
I'm Wolf Blitzer, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
At this moment the fight over immigration reform is being taken to the streets. It's the most dramatic day of demonstrations yet. Nearly 70 protests are happening across the country today. Some are beginning right now.
The rally here in Washington is being held in the shadow of the Capitol where senators left for recess last week in a partisan stalemate over immigration. In New York, marchers are converging on City Hall to demand what they're calling immigration justice. Many are fighting for efforts to give illegal immigrants a path toward citizenship. And they're fighting against efforts to make it a felony to be in the country illegally.
In Atlanta, thousands of demonstrators crowded into a heavily Hispanic neighborhood. Many waved American flags and wore white T- shirts, the unofficial uniform of today's protest. In Phoenix meanwhile, another huge demonstration getting under way. As many as 100,000 immigrants rights supporters are expected to march to the state capital.
We have correspondents covering the story across the board. CNN's Allan Chernoff is with the demonstrators in New York City. Let's go up to Andrea Koppel, though. She's on the Mall in Washington watching this demonstration unfold in the nation's capital. Andrea?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Wolf. This demonstration is just getting under way here outside the U.S. Capitol on the Washington Mall. It is a picture perfect day, not a cloud in the sky. You can feel the emotion. You can hear the crowds chanting.
This is all part of civil rights workers, social workers, church activists and politicians. Police tell me that they are expecting a crowd of between 100,000 to 150,000 people. Also among them many of the invisible, if you will, the undocumented workers and estimated 11 to 12 million of course in the United States right now.
As I mentioned there are politicians here in Washington. Among them Senator Edward Kennedy. All of them that we're aware of are Democrats. We're also aware that Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer of New York are going to be participating there. We also know that the second most senior Democrat, Dick Durbin, is going to be in Chicago. And out in California the former Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry speaking to crowds this afternoon, basically telling them that we are a nation of immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We're not going to be a country that takes millions of families and splits them apart and becomes divisive. We have to recognize what is led us here. So we have to find the ground, the common ground of America, based on our best values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: Now, Wolf, we're only aware of Democratic lawmakers attending these rallies. We don't know, however, if there are any Republicans who are participating. We tried to find out and weren't able to come up with any names.
BLITZER: Of specific concern to the demonstrators is the House version of this legislation that has already passed, not necessarily as much as the compromise that was being worked out, though stalemated in the Senate.
KOPPEL: Exactly. This is the House bill, much tougher bill that passed in December. In that bill there is no so called guest-worker program. There is no earned pass to citizenship that was in the Senate. What you do see is that it would be criminalized, basically there's 11 to 12 million workers in the United States, illegal immigrants would be considered criminals in addition to any of those who would help them.
It also bans U.S. entry from known gang members. Now, in the Senate bill, it lays out that earned path to U.S. citizenship. A number of steps that they would have to -- a number of requirements that they would have to meet in order to qualify for U.S. citizenship a number of years down the road, as well as creating that guest worker program.
But they couldn't reach the meeting of the minds, Wolf, even though hopes were raised on Thursday when you heard the majority leader Bill Frist saying that they were on the verge of a major break through. Then on Friday acrimony, name calling, finger pointing, both sides blaming the other. The Democrats saying that it's the Republicans who are trying to filibuster by amendment, trying to gut the bill. Republicans blaming Democrats of trying to basically block the bill from going forward, Wolf.
BLITZER: Andrea, thank you very much.
Let's go to the streets of New York City. Allan Chernoff is watching the demonstration unfold there. Allan?
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we certainly have a melting pot of New York City here, because we've had Korean Americans, Chinese Americans, all chanting in Spanish, all chanting, "Si, si puede, yes, we can."
And of course, this is very much a broad coalition. Right now, the attorney general, Eliot Spitzer is speaking. As you know, Eliot Spitzer, running for governor of the state of New York.
But we have a crowd here that encompasses not only most of South America and Central America, but also we see flags from Europe. We see people from Poland, Brazil, Argentina, a very broad range here. You see the crowd now. It extends for about three or four city blocks.
I can't possibly give you a count right now from where we're standing. We're right now at the front of the crowd. But people are still streaming in across the Brooklyn Bridge, down from Greenwich Village and also down from Chinatown. But the people here, very typical. One person we have over here, Ilegio Ramirez (ph) and he is from Argentina, actually, from Buenos Aires. Ilegio (ph), tell us exactly why did you come today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came here to say -- I have been present here. I'm living here. I'm working here and I want to become legal in this country.
CHERNOFF: Thank you very much, Ilegio (ph). Ilegio (ph) actually is here on his own. He has four children in Buenos Aires, his wife lives in Buenos Aires, as well. He's working here now in construction. He came on a visa legally, but he overstayed and, of course, now he is an undocumented illegal alien.
But he is very typical of so many of the people here. But I should emphasize this crowd is not composed of illegal immigrants. Many people here are legal immigrants. Many people here also U.S. citizens. A lot of people who have lived the American dream, and now they are saying they want other, newer immigrants to have the same opportunity that they have had. Wolf?
BLITZER: Allan, thank you very much -- Allan Chernoff in New York.
The governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, is also weighing in today on the immigration debate after recently saying he would let the so-called geniuses in Washington -- his word, geniuses -- figure out what's going on.
The California Republican and Austrian immigrant himself offers some advice to Congress in an op/ed piece in the "Wall Street Journal." Among other things, Schwarzenegger writes, "We hear so much talk about so many false choices. We are told that in a free society, it's not possible to have border security. We are advised that in order to secure the borders, we must deport 12 million people, never mind that we don't know who they are or where they are and that it could cost up to $230 billion to do it. I reject these false choices and Congress should, too."
There's much more ahead on this battle over immigration reform. James Carville and Bay Buchanan, they'll join me in a "Strategy Session" here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also, in the next hour, our own Bill Bennett will weigh in. Plus, the "Television" (sic) anchor, Maria Elena Salinas, one of the most influential voices in Spanish language media. She is going to join us live in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour. We're going to get all perspectives here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Meanwhile, President Bush is speaking out today about two new flash points for the White House. He's dismissing a report that his administration is considering nuclear strikes against sites in Iran and he's defending his decision to declassify documents on Iraq, the latest bombshell from the CIA leak case. Our White House correspondents Ed Henry, Suzanne Malveaux, are both standing by. Let's go to Ed first with the Iranian nuclear issue. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, for president who says he rarely if ever reads the newspapers, Mr. Bush was pretty fired up today over this magazine report suggesting that he wants regime change in Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): President Bush lashed out at a story in "The New Yorker," alleging the White house is considering nuclear strikes as one option to snuff out Iran's underground nuclear sites.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I read the articles in the newspapers this weekend, it was just wild speculation.
HENRY: Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh claimed several months ago military leaders gave the president a menu of possibilities.
SEYMOUR HERSH, "THE NEW YORKER": The joint chiefs tried to walk back the nuclear option, which is, of course, crazy. Nobody in their right mind would use a nuclear weapon in the Muslim world. There's 1.2 billion Muslims that would be out to get us. The issue is that the military wants this out, and the White House is keeping it in.
HENRY: White House spokesman Scott McClellan called that "hyped up reporting based on anonymous former officials." But pressed on whether nuclear strikes are an option, McClellan would not confirm or deny, and he did say the Pentagon has engaged in quote, "normal military contingency planning to deal with Iran," which the president four years ago famously charged as a part of an axis of evil, along with Iraq and North Korea.
BUSH: By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger.
HENRY: Just as did he with Iraq, the president now insists war with Iran is the last option, and he's pushing a diplomatic solution.
BUSH: The doctrine of prevention is to work together to prevent the Iranis from having a nuclear weapon. I know, I know, we're here in Washington, you know, prevention means force. It doesn't mean force necessarily.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Another question is whether the U.S. military, already stretched thin in Iraq, can handle a second war. After reiterating that war in Iran is the last option, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the military will be ready for any challenge -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed, thank you very much. Ed Henry at the White House.
Iran's hardline president, by the way, is dismissing the possible threat of U.S. military action against his country. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says his people should not be frightened by what he calls Western bullying over Iran's nuclear program. The Tehran government says it's developing nuclear energy, not nuclear weapons.
Also today, the Bush White House facing new questions and new outrage over leaks of secret information on the administration's case for war in Iraq.
Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux picking up this part of the story -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT; Well, Wolf, it really was the first time that President Bush himself spoke out about the CIA leak controversy. It happened at Johns Hopkins University. During our Q & A session, essentially President Bush insisting that he did not leak classified information; rather, he said, he declassified information. A very important distinction that the White House is trying to make here, saying that they were simply trying to set the record straight.
The president going on the record, saying it was October 2002, national intelligence estimates, essentially the NIE, that was released portions of it as part of a larger campaign to discredit the critics who were claiming that President Bush and this administration were trying to twist Iraqi intelligence. When it came to weapons of mass destruction, we saw those court documents that said specifically the White House seemed to be irked by the former Ambassador Joe Wilson's challenge to the administration when it came to those weapons. And President Bush again today acknowledging that this was part of a broader campaign, a public relations campaign, that was not successful publicly only, but they had to do something privately, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I decided to declassify the NIE for a reason. I wanted to see -- people to see what some of those statements were based on. That's what I wanted to see. I wanted people to see the truth. And I thought it made sense for people to see the truth. And that's why I declassified the document. You can't talk about -- you're not supposed to talk about classified information. And so I declassified the document.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And Wolf, Democrats just aren't buying it. They don't think the American people are going to buy it, either. They say that the president is simply parsing words here, making a distinction between leaking information and declassifying information. They want a fuller accounting of the president's thinking behind this.
They also, of course, -- political analysts saying they don't think it's going to work, this strategy. They say it didn't work for former President Bill Clinton when he was parsing his words regarding the Monica Lewinsky affair, that famous phrase "it all depends on what the meaning of the word is is" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne at the White House, thank you very much for that.
Joe Wilson will be standing by. He's standing by, in fact, right now. He's going to be joining us today, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the former U.S. ambassador Joe Wilson.
Joining us right now again for another week, Jack Cafferty. He's got "The Cafferty File" in New York. Hope you had a nice weekend, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I did, Wolf. Thank you. I want to make sure I understand this now. You know, there's actually talk in Washington about using a nuclear weapon to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. I think I have that right. We're talking about Iran here.
We have 150,000 soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The sectarian violence in Iraq is getting worse every day. We've spent a half a trillion dollars on that little experiment so far. That ain't working out too well, either, and there's no end in sight.
If the United States unilaterally attacks Iran, what do you suppose is going to happen? Iran isn't Iraq. The military is bigger, tougher and much better equipped. The country is run by this maniacal little squirrel who spends part of his time going around mumbling about interrupting the oil supply to the West if anything should happen. And yet Sy Hersh of "The New Yorker" magazine insists there are serious discussions in the Pentagon about taking out Iran's nuclear facilities, using a bunker busting nuclear warhead.
Here's the question. Can the U.S. afford a military strike on Iran? You can e-mail us at CaffertyFile@CNN.com, or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.
I'm becoming afraid, Wolf.
BLITZER: I think a lot of our viewers feel exactly the way you do as well. We'll be anxious to hear what they tell you in the e- mail. Jack, thanks very much.
Coming up, President Bush has a message for Iraqi political leaders. We'll tell you what he said today. That's coming up.
Also, he's an Iraq war veteran and now he's entered a very different battlefield. Van Taylor's story. That's coming up, as well.
And later, much more on our top story, the massive protesters -- protests -- under way right now over immigration reform. Our James Carville and Bay Buchanan, they'll join us on today's "Strategy Session" to discuss immigration reform.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Betty Nguyen joining us today. Zain Verjee has the day off. Betty is taking a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Betty.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Wolf.
The balance of power still very much up in the air in Italy. Early exit polls show a neck and neck race for control of the Italian parliament. Now, the race pits the central-right coalition of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi against the central-left coalition of challenger Romano Prodi. Polls show the senate is still anybody's race. Voters appear to be leaning, though, toward Prodi's side and parliament's lower house. A prime minister needs control of both houses to form a government.
President Jacques Chirac says France will scrap the controversial youth employment contract he signed into law just eight days ago. The French leader says it will be replaced by a new plan, targeting what he calls "youths in difficulty." The legislation prompted several weeks of massive strikes -- you see there -- by young people and unions. The measure had been billed by the government as a way to reduce youth unemployment in France. It currently stands at 22 percent.
The U.S. war casualty list has grown by two more. Two soldiers were killed Sunday in enemy action in al-Anbar province. That boosts the U.S. military toll from hostile action to 1,849. Including non- hostile deaths, there have been 2,353 military deaths since the Iraq war began back in march of 2003. Wolf?
BLITZER: Betty, thank you very much.
President Bush says the violence in Iraq can be undermined from within. During a speech over at my alma mater, the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies here in Washington, the president said it's critical for Iraqi leaders to set aside differences and get on with the business of establishing a government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: This past Friday, suicide bombers blew up another Shia mosque in northern Baghdad. The longer Iraq's leaders delay in forming a unity government, the greater the risk that the terrorists and former regime elements will succeed in their efforts to foment division and to stop the progress of an Iraq democracy.
The terrorists know that the greatest threat to their aspirations is Iraqi self-government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The president predicts Iraqi forces will be in control of more territory than coalition forces by year's end.
Now to the Iraq war as an issue in the 2006 election. The Vice President Dick Cheney is in Texas today to campaign for an Iraq war veteran who is now running for Congress. Let's bring in our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, at last check nine Iraq veterans were running for national office this year. Seven Democrats, critical of the war's execution, if not always the war. Two vets with a Republican mantle which brings us to Vice President Cheney's visit to bolster the candidate from McClellan County, Texas, a marquee name for a marquee race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): This is one Republicans would dearly love to have.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am looking forward to the trip and having the opportunity to join all of you in supporting the next Congressman from the Seventh District, Van Taylor.
CROWLEY: Van Taylor is running in Texas 17. Deep in the heart of Bush land. It includes Waco and Crawford, home of the president.
VAN TAYLOR (R), TEXAS CONG. CANDIDATE: I was a commander in Iraq and would like to fight for our values in Washington. That is my little girl right there.
CROWLEY: He's a young new face, a conservative Republican in a conservative district, which last election went 70 percent for George Bush whose echo is loud and clear.
TAYLOR: There are people right now that want to destroy our way of life and we need to send people to Washington who understand this new world that we live in, this post 9/11 world.
CROWLEY: Taylor's resume seems built for these times and trouble. Harvard MBA and business owner. Ex-marine who saw combat in Iraq and the comings and goings along the Texas-Mexico border.
TAYLOR: I've led troops on the border. I know it's not secure by any standard.
CROWLEY: His campaign has been well-funded, drawing Republican donors from across the country. And still, Taylor runs against the wind. A Bush Republican when the tide is distinctly anti-Republican and distinctly anti-Bush holding fast on Iraq as much as the country moves away.
TAYLOR: What I'm concerned about is politicians in Washington for political gain trying to put restrictions on our troops, or, even worse, are calling for us to quit the battlefield altogether and betray our troops in the field.
CROWLEY: Taylor faces a tough and tested incumbent. Democrat Chet Edwards has handily won the seat in the past two elections. The last one, despite Republican-led redistricting which claimed the careers of several other Texas Democrats.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Expect Texas-size spending in the 17th. Edwards is in the top tier of fundraisers this year. Among hundreds of challengers nationwide, only nine have raised more money than Van Taylor.
BLITZER: You have done several stories on these Iraq war veterans running for Congress, mostly Democrats, a couple Republicans. How big a role their record, the war in Iraq, how big a role did that play in these campaigns.
CROWLEY: It's the attention getter. One of the first things you have to do as a candidate is get somebody to pay attention to you. Certainly when you have somebody like Tammy Duckworth, who was severely injured in Iraq and it's obvious that she was injured, that's an attention getter in and of itself.
People tend to listen when you say hi, I'm a veteran of Iraq. All of these candidates, when you ask them about that, they say, look, it's a part of who I am. But, I'm also this, I'm also that, I did this, I did that. They are pretty aware. Look at Max Cleland, the former senator, George Bush the dad, obviously had a war record, Bill Clinton did not. Bill Clinton won.
They know that just having a war record isn't enough even when that war is ongoing. It gets attention then they try to move on and broaden the public's view. BLITZER: Thank you very much. Good report. Remember your in THE SITUATION ROOM where political news is arriving all the time. CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
Up next, the White House and the CIA leak. A top Republican calling for the Bush administration to come clean. What is the strategy now?
Plus more on the battle over immigration. Our James Carville and Bay Buchanan. They don't necessarily see eye to eye on this explosive issue. They will join us. That's coming up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Today in our "Strategy Session" demonstrations around the country are putting more heat on the political debate over immigration. Could these protests have an impact on Washington and the ballot box.
Joining us now are CNN political analysts, Democratic strategist James Carville and Bay Buchanan, the president of American Cause.
Republican Congressman Henry Bonilla of Texas made this comment yesterday. I want you to listen to it to see who is going to get the upper hand as a result of these demonstrations. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HENRY BONILLA (R), TEXAS: I don't think they have a major impact. They generally will appeal to those who already agree with the demonstrators and probably drive a bigger wedge between people on their side and the heartland in most of America that continues to believe that we're a nation of laws and need to enforce our border security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you think the political impact of these demonstrations all over the country, hundreds of thousands of people showing up, is going to be?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Some people are going to see them and say, hey, look, a lot of these people are here illegally, they shouldn't be here. The point is that these immigrants are really becoming real Americans they understand the power of making the view.
This has come up from the bottom. This has come up from Hispanic and talk radio. This has come from the churches. This is not somebody sitting around in Washington generating this. This is a self-sustaining thing. A lot of these people are good, hardworking people. They are going out to get heard. Some people are going to hear what they want to hear.
Obviously Congressman Bonilla is right. It will anger other people. But they're now in the political process and my sense is they're not going anywhere.
BLITZER: What do you think, Bay?
BAY BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CAUSE: Two things have happened, Wolf.
Number one, it has changed the debate for the U.S. Senate. Instead of talking guest worker, which is really all we were talking about initially -- and we were fighting that, to be quite honest -- now it's amnesty. They're demanding a path to citizenship. And that is what the Senate discussed.
The second thing it has done, it has outraged those who really weren't addressing the issue at all, weren't thinking about it. I cannot tell you the calls I have from liberal Democrats who have said, tell me where to send the check. This is an outrage, that these people think they somehow have rights and are demanding these rights in our streets. So, I think it's been enormously beneficial.
BLITZER: Here is what -- here is what Arnold Schwarzenegger, Arnold, the Republican governor of California...
CARVILLE: Right.
BLITZER: ... wrote in today's "Wall Street Journal."
"Brick walls and chain-link fences will not stop the desires and dreams of a father who is desperate to feed his family. And making it a felony to cross the border crosses the line into pure politics."
That's the Republican governor of California.
BUCHANAN: You -- you know, whatever he has to say, first of all, it should be noted that the people that are coming over from Mexico, 95 percent, had jobs in Mexico and are coming over for better work. Only 5 percent are unemployed.
So, that goes right to the point of -- of his comments there. Secondly, the -- the key here is that we are a rule -- you know, we believe in the rule of law. And we have got to implement that. And the real problem right now is that we have got to secure our border. Ninety-two percent of Americans say we must secure the border. You have to do that first,, even before you talk about amnesty or guest worker, or you invite millions of more. So, that's the first step. That's the position the Congress of the United States is taking.
BLITZER: Do you think that some Democrats are concerned this could boomerang against them in November, this issue?
CARVILLE: Well, probably. I mean, there are some Democrats who are concerned about everything.
But I think, by and large, people understand, as -- as -- as most, the majority of the U.S. Senate at the time did that you have to address -- you can two things at one time. You can increase border security. You can do a better job there. You obviously have to do something about 12 million people that are in this country, most all of them working hard.
And I think that -- that Congress should be able to do both things at the same time. And -- and, look, to people like Bay and -- and -- and those guys, you're never -- they are never going to be for a guest-worker program. I don't care how secure the border is.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: I would agree there. I would agree there.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Hold on, Bay.
But there are plenty of Republicans, including the president of the United States, and John McCain, who is the front-runner, presumably, for the Republican nomination in 2008, who say absolutely yes to this guest-worker program and put them on a path -- it might take 11 years -- put them on a path toward citizenship.
BUCHANAN: You -- you know, Wolf, you're right. There are Republicans -- there are Republicans who are elected to a position who do take that position.
But Republicans across this country do not. Grassroots Republicans do not take that position. Guest worker is not something they support. And there's a reason for that. It has never worked, Wolf. It has never worked in the history of our country. It has never worked.
All that is just a nice word for amnesty. That is it. And what we're saying is -- and -- and James is wrong. You can't do it at the same time. You must secure your border first, or else, just talking amnesty -- this weekend, there's more coming across than went across last week just because we're discussing it.
CARVILLE: You know what? A Swiss economist said the smartest thing ever on immigration. He said, what we wanted was a labor force. Instead, human beings came.
And what we're seeing out there are human beings. These are -- everybody kind of wanted the cheap labor. Everybody wanted to look the other way. And guess what? These are human beings in this country. And I think people are trying to -- trying to deal with it. And these human beings have -- have caught on to America.
You -- you show demonstrate. You show some political pull.
BLITZER: Let's -- let's move on and let's talk a little bit about the CIA leak investigation.
Yesterday, Senator Arlen Specter, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, himself a Republican, said this. He said: "The president of the United States owes a specific explanation to the American people. There has to be a detailed explanation precisely as to what Vice President Cheney did, what the president said to him, and an explanation for the president, as to what he said, so that it can be evaluated."
You want to hear precisely from the president and the vice president what they authorized Scooter Libby to tell Judy Miller of "The New York Times" before that national intelligence estimate was formally declassified?
BUCHANAN: Well, Wolf, first -- first of all, no. Whatever conversation goes between the vice president and the president is not to be -- to be told to, anyone except -- unless there's a concern that law was broken.
Everything we know now is that there was no law broken whatsoever. What the president and the vice president talked about was that their critics were coming after him -- them, the administration -- and saying that they exaggerated the information on whether Saddam Hussein was a nuclear threat or not.
And they said, listen, why don't we release, declassify some information that we based that assessment on to make certain the American people know the truth?
That is completely legitimate. That's what they did. And there is no one suggesting that any crime or malice or harm has been done because of it.
CARVILLE: Wolf, Bush said that he was going to look for the -- the leaker here. You know, it's like he and O.J. Simpson, they are going to look for the real leaker and the real murderer. It will be the -- the Simpson-Bush strike force here.
Obviously, what Senator Specter said is right. What Ambassador Wilson said is right. I don't see why the president and the vice president just don't come forward and release the testimony that they gave to -- to Patrick Fitzgerald, so we can see where it is.
He says, well, I authorized the declassification, but I didn't authorize the leak. We don't know the vice president's role was in this. We do know this president has publicly decried leaks, while, apparently, he's encouraging them on the side. I think the American people deserve an answer. I think Senator Specter is right. I think Ambassador Wilson is right.
BLITZER: Republican strategist Ed Rogers said this. He said, "If, in the public mind, this becomes a question of the president's integrity or veracity, it becomes even more problematic."
Politically -- forget about legally -- but, politically, it could be a problem for the president.
BUCHANAN: Sure, if people really believe that. But, right now, that's not even what is being suggested. All that is being suggested is, the president of the United States agreed and -- and mentioned to the vice president that this is something they should do.
He never suggested it should be leaked to some members of the press. He said, we should make... CARVILLE: How -- how do we know that?
BUCHANAN: ... public certain information.
CARVILLE: How do we know that?
BUCHANAN: Because I believe -- nobody is suggesting otherwise. That's why.
CAVUTO: You think, Bay -- honestly, you think he was just...
BUCHANAN: I mean, you guys can just come up with conjecture here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You think he was walking through the -- through the White House and stuck his head in, says, hey, Dick, why don't we declassify that?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Or you think there was -- you think there might have been just a -- if you believe that, then -- then you believe that these -- these people all want to stay in the country. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Listen. Listen, the vice president and the president were trying to respond to some legitimate criticism.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: And they are allowed to take that position.
And just -- it could be that the vice president was going to mention it on ABC or CNN the next week.
CARVILLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Just out of -- out of -- out of the thing, he just said, oh, you know what, I got this grand idea. Why don't we just do this?
Sure.
BUCHANAN: That doesn't mean he leaked it.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: James and Bay...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: ... took that position does not mean he leaked it.
CARVILLE: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks -- thanks to both of you.
BUCHANAN: Sure.
CARVILLE: All right. You bet.
BLITZER: And, up next, who is the driving force behind the immigration reform rallies across the United States right now? We will answer the question and tell you what it may mean in this election year.
Also, a blast from the past -- that would be Bill Clinton and Al Gore. They are together again. We're going to tell you what is going on. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Across the United States right now, more rallies for immigration rights getting under way. It's a remarkable spectacle with enormous political ramifications.
Let's bring in our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, truly spontaneous events have become rare in American politics. That's why the pro-immigrant demonstrations taking place now across the country are really surprising.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): "There go my people," a French politician once said. "I must follow them, for I am their leader."
HARRY PACHON, PRESIDENT, TOMAS RIVERA POLICY INSTITUTE: It caught many Hispanic leaders by surprise, because this is really a -- a working community's demonstration.
SCHNEIDER: This expert on Hispanic politics calls the demonstrations a spontaneous outpouring of protests by a community that feels unfairly treated and misrepresented.
PACHON: The immigration debate up to the -- up to these demonstrations has largely been one-sided. It -- it has been very hard to have anybody argue, you know, for the undocumented immigrant, or for the illegal alien.
SCHNEIDER: These protests are being driven not by politicians and political activists, but by grassroots forces, union and church leaders, Spanish-language radio hosts, and a brand new political force, students text-messaging one another on their cell phones to spread the news about school walkouts.
This could be a consciousness-raising moment for Hispanic Americans, including Puerto Ricans, who are not immigrants.
PACHON: The Pan-Hispanic, or Pan-Latino identity is beginning to show itself, like when you have Puerto Ricans supporting anti- immigration -- I mean pro-immigration measures.
SCHNEIDER: It happened in California after 1994, when voters approved a measure that cut off public services for illegal immigrants and their families. Huge numbers of young Hispanics began to register and vote. The Hispanic share of the California vote doubled between 1990 and 1996 and doubled again between 1996 and 2004, and help turned California into a solidly Democratic state.
That's what some Republicans, like President Bush, are worried about happening on a national scale.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Republicans made that mistake in the 1920s and '30s with an earlier generation of immigrants. They don't want that to happen again -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill, thank you very much.
And dozens upon dozens much rallies are coming together right now around the country. And they are growing quickly with the help of the Internet. Bill just explained that.
But let's get some more. Abbi Tatton has been looking into how these marches are actually playing out online -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, we are actually watching some of these marches online right now.
These are people streaming through Washington to the National Mall. Here in D.C., we have been looking at Flagstaff, Arizona. Here, that one, you can just see it is disconnected now, but there were people assembling in a square there.
A lot of these organization -- or these events organized today, you can find listed at April10.org. This is an organization. It was a clearinghouse for all the events organized by the fair immigration reform movement, but in conjunction with grassroots efforts across the United States. We have seen them advertised on civil rights projects here, also immigration rights networks, religious organizations as well.
We saw 103 listed for today on this Web site, but a spokeswoman says they couldn't even keep up with all these events happening today. She says she knows of 140 going on -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you very much.
And, coming up, the first votes being cast in the New Orleans election -- we're going to tell you about some unique ways to drive displaced voters to cast ballots.
And from "The West Wing" to the United States Senate -- did Democrats make the actor Martin Sheen an offer he couldn't refuse?
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: On our "Political Radar" this Monday, a White House reunion of sorts. The former President Bill Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore are scheduled to attend a gala fund-raiser in New York tonight for the Democratic National Committee. Gore reportedly was a last-minute addition to the event, which is expected to raise $1.3 million for the DNC.
Martin Sheen's days in the TV version of the West Wing are numbered, but the actor is quoted today as saying he was approached by Ohio Democrats to run for the real-life United States Senate. "The New York Times" says, Sheen turned them down. An Ohio Democratic Party spokesman tells CNN, it's very plausible that Sheen would be courted to run early on in the process. That would be before the congressman Sherrod Brown was in the Senate race.
In Louisiana right now, early balloting is under way in the New Orleans mayor's race. The formal vote scheduled for April 22, but 10 satellite voting stations now are up and running around the state to make voting easier for residents displaced by Hurricane Katrina.
How do you run an election when much of your city is displaced? That's the case right now, as we all know, in New Orleans. Now the city is coming up with some brand new ways to try to get the vote out.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, has the story -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: They are relying a lot more on the Internet, Wolf.
Think about it. If people are displaced, you don't know where they are. You can't use direct mail and other traditional methods. You're trying to collect e-mail addresses. The other thing a lot of the candidates are doing, very simple, telling people how to vote -- obviously, a very difficult process right now.
A lot of these candidates are linking to this Web site. It's the Elections Division in the state of Louisiana. They have opened, like you said, extra polling stations. They're trying to tell people where to go. They tell me 14,000 absentee ballots filed so far, with two weeks to go. Compare that to the last mayoral election. They only had 2,750.
There's also a grassroots movement organized online and door to door, word of mouth, called ACORN. They are bussing people across the state lines from Texas into Louisiana to some of those special polling stations. And they're going to continue to do so, Wolf, until Saturday.
BLITZER: Jacki, thank you very much.
Up next, the power, or lack of it, of the masses -- thousands upon thousands protesting today over immigration. The sight is nothing new in the United States, but will today's demonstrations equal the impact of past multitudes?
And, later, a new report says Iran may be the United States' next target. We're going to examine military options in our next hour. That's coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Jack Cafferty, did you get any e-mail?
CAFFERTY: We got a lot of e-mail on this question about whether or not they are talking at the Pentagon about a nuclear -- tactical nuclear strike against Iran. President Bush dismissed this talk as wild speculation, reports that they are thinking about doing this, hitting Iran's underground nuclear facilities with some sort of bunker-buster, a nuclear bunker buster.
The question is, can the U.S. afford a military strike on Iran?
Andi writes: "Nowhere in any discussion of this topic have I heard one word about congressional authorization. Does anyone really think that Bush can roll Congress twice?"
Phil in Columbus: "The bigger question is, can we afford to sit by and wait until their threats can be realized?"
Hazel in Ekron, Kentucky: "Jack, if this Congress has any backbone, they will impeach Bush before he has a chance to send our young men and women to die in Iran. Iran is not Iraq, and they will retaliate big-time."
Vince in Carson City, Nevada: "A military strike on Iran would open a Pandora's box that would make Iraq look like the greatest success in history. It would be absolute insanity to launch such a strike. I am fearful that the Bush junta is just messianic, delusional, and insane enough to do it."
Gary writes: "I only have one question. If they make a bomb and take out New York, would it be OK to nuke them then?"
And Jeff in Lonoke, Arkansas: "Look, Jack, we are working on a deadline here. Effectively, Bush only has about a year to get Armageddon cranked up. So far, it looks like a go" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, see you in a few minutes in the next hour in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We're standing by. Joe Wilson, the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, he's going to be joining us live in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also, Brian Todd has got an important report that he's working on -- retired U.S. generals now speaking out openly against the war and calling on the U.S. defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to step down -- Brian's report coming up in the next hour as well.
Also, we're following those protests, those political opportunities that may be developing -- what Senator Clinton and others have to gain from joining in today's very public demonstrations.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now back to our top story, the immigration reform rallies now under way across the country.
You might think such a huge turnout would have a huge political impact.
Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, has his own thoughts on all of this -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Wolf, there's no doubt that today's rallies are very big.
But when it comes to measuring the impact, the political impact, of such demonstrations, history teaches us that size isn't everything.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD (voice-over): Sometimes, it's what happens to protesters that galvanizes public opinion, as in 1932.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three cheers for the bonus that we are going to get.
(CHEERING)
GREENFIELD: But a Washington protest by World War I veterans asking for bonus pay was broken up by the Army, led Douglas MacArthur. That gave a big black eye to the Hoover administration.
When billy clubs were turned on civil rights demonstrators in the Selma-to-Montgomery march in 1965, it crystallized public opinion and led to President Johnson's famous promise to pass a voting-rights bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we shall overcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GREENFIELD: It was the combination of a fight that had gained major impetus from another demonstration, the 1963 March on Washington, where Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his classic "I have a dream" speech. That march was focused on a specific objective, the passage of a major civil rights act. By contrast, the Million Man March in October 1995 drew far more participants than Dr. King's march, but it was not aimed at any specific piece of legislation or policy. That...
MINISTER LOUIS FARRAKHAN, NATION OF ISLAM: My people love me.
GREENFIELD: ... and its sponsorship by the controversial minister Louis Farrakhan helped dissipate its impact.
And even the biggest demonstrations haven't had much impact when the battle lines are already clearly drawn. Both sides of the abortion debate have turned out large numbers in Washington over the years, to no apparent impact. But it is also true that small crowds don't necessarily measure popular sentiment.
The protests marking the third anniversary of the invasion of Iraq drew relatively tiny crowds. But the news from Iraq over the last three years has led to a steady drop in support for the president's Iraq policies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: As for these demonstrations, might they influence the course of government policy, the way the huge protests in France forced the government to drop its job-security plan? Might they create a backlash among American citizens, most of whom, the polls say, support tougher enforcement and border security?
When it comes to answering those questions, numbers alone don't begin to provide any answers -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeff, thank you very much.
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