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The Situation Room
War Over Rumsfeld; Duke University Arrests; Oil Prices Reaching Record Highs
Aired April 18, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it' 5:00 p.m. here in Washington. A developing story we're watching as President Bush won't budge in the war over Donald Rumsfeld. Neither will the defense secretary himself. As retired generals form battle lines, I'll ask our retired commanders what they think of the controversy.
As oil hits a record high, Americans are digging deeper at the pump. In many cities, gas right now over $3 a gallon. And there are complaints of gouging. Is it just a case of supply and demand, or are oil companies just demanding too much?
And it's 2:00 p.m. In Seattle, Washington. China's president begins a visit to the United States in the other Washington, meeting with business leaders before America's political leaders. Is he sending a message?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
He's been under sharp attack by some retired generals who want him to join them in retirement. But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld vigorously defended his own record today. Just minutes ago, he finished making his case to retired U.S. military officers. And President Bush, earlier in the day, offered strong backing, even as he announced other changes in his administration.
Our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, is standing by.
Let's go to the Pentagon first. Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, with the latest -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, according to our own Major General Retired Don Shepperd, this briefing for military analysts was akin to a Pentagon briefing. It was a briefing of how things were going in the war on terror in Afghanistan and Iraq, followed by some tough questions from the military people who had this private meet with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, General Pace and some other commanders. And in that briefing, which was, again, mostly about how things were going in Iraq and elsewhere, the case was made again just as it was earlier today in the Pentagon briefing that Rumsfeld does, in fact, solicit the advice of the military and listen to it. Here's a sample of what they said at the briefing, which was pretty close to what they said in the meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: There are multiple opportunities for all of us, whatever opinions we have, to put them on the table. And all the opinions are put on the table. But at the end of the day, after we've given our best military advice, somebody has to make a decision.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: A person who is appointed by the president, who's elected by the people, and then confirmed by the Senate as secretary of defense, has to make those kinds of decisions. And when you make a decision, you make a choice, somebody is not going to like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, Rumsfeld appeared confident in both the private and public appearances today, gave no indication that he was planning to resign or step down. In fact, he said essentially that he would not be offering his resignation to President Bush, as he did two years ago in the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal. Asked my one reporter why then offer your resignation but not now, he said, "Call it idiosyncratic" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: That's a word that Rumsfeld presumably likes to use. Thanks very much, Jamie, for that.
And we're going to ask our generals about the war over Rumsfeld. Three retired military commanders and CNN analysts will join me here in THE SITUATION ROOM. We'll discuss the defense secretary and the controversy. All that coming up at the bottom of the hour.
After interrupting his vacation last week to defend his defense secretary, President Bush today stood his ground, saying he's the decider. That's his word. He's the decider and that he's decided Donald Rumsfeld should remain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, you've made it a practice of not commenting on potential personnel moves, calling it speculation.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Of course I did. You can understand why, because we've got people's reputations at stake. And on Friday, I stood up and said, "I don't appreciate the speculation about Don Rumsfeld."
He's doing a fine job. I strongly support him. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The president today announced the decision on another key administration post and hinted that more changes are on the way.
Let's turn to our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux.
What are you picking up, Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, when it comes to Donald Rumsfeld, it's all a part of the White House strategy really to kind of shape the debate and turn the corner, if you will, not to focus on past problems or whether or not Rumsfeld should stay or go. The president making it very clear. But two things rather, trying to focus on the Iraqis in their transitional government, to make that successful, and also, of course, to train the Iraqis to take over their own protection of their own citizens and eventually withdraw those troops -- Wolf.
BLITZER: The very strong aggressive support that the president is showing for Donald Rumsfeld, what's behind that strategy? Is it something the president deeply believes, or does he -- does he believe that if he were to fire or let Rumsfeld go, that would, in effect, undermine his credibility?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly it's all about the president's credibility. I mean, he is a true believer, as is Secretary Rumsfeld.
The thinking here at the White House, Wolf, is, if he were to let him go or to accept his resignation in any way, that that would concede defeat somehow and it would acknowledge past mistakes. The administration strategy here is to acknowledge, yes, there have been some missteps, we're making some adjustments. But certainly to focus on what they think the American people want, which is not Rumsfeld to go, but rather, to get U.S. troops out of there and perhaps lower the casualty rates as well -- Wolf.
BLITZER: A new trade representative nominated today. A new budget director nominated by the president today. What's next?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly White House sources, as well as Republican sources, have been saying for weeks now that Bolten is focusing on White House communications and administration legislative affairs, specifically looking at the press secretary's position.
CNN has learned today that Tony Snow of FOX News, a conservative radio talk show host and anchor, was approached by Bolten a couple of weeks ago at the White House if there was any interest in that position. We are also hearing from Republican sources, those inside of the White House, including former Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols, as well as former Pentagon spokeswoman Torie Clarke, other names that have come up in discussions.
Of course, Tony Snow has no comment on this. He was a former chief -- speechwriter, rather, for President Bush's father -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Suzanne, for that report.
Zain Verjee is joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Wolf, three people are dead in a shooting at a St. Louis catering company. Police say two women are among the victims, along with a third person, a man police say shot himself. CNN's St. Louis affiliates are reporting that the man was a disgruntled employee. The fourth person was injured in the shooting and was taken to a hospital.
At least 75 fighters were called in to put down a fire at a salvage yard in Phoenix, Arizona. An oil tanker truck at the site just burst into flames and sent thick black plumes of smoke pouring up into the sky amid those orange glows. The crews were trying to contain the fire while letting it burn out. No injuries were reported and there's no word yet on what caused the fire.
Texans are being urged to conserve power as they face the possibility of more rolling blackouts today. Conditions are similar to yesterday, when high temperatures led to high power demand. But some generating stations were down for maintenance.
The power shortage forced rolling blackouts covering large portions of Texas. The first in almost 15 years.
Representatives of the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council are meeting in Moscow, along with German diplomats, to discuss Iran's nuclear enrichment program. The Security Council has given Tehran until the 28th of April to halt the program. But Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, remains defiant, saying today that Iran will cut off the hand of any aggressor that threatens it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thanks very much.
From Zain, let's go up to New York and Jack Cafferty. He's standing by once again with "The Cafferty File."
Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
China's president arrived in the United States today for his first visit since taking office in 2003. And his first stop is Washington -- Seattle, Washington. Not the nation's capital.
President Hu Jintao is visiting Microsoft and Boeing, and he's going to have dinner at the home of Microsoft's Bill Gates, the richest man in all the world. Mr. Hu won't get to the White House until Thursday, and apparently it's no accident.
George Malone (ph) writes in "The Wall Street Journal" that, "The Chinese are great on symbolism and Mr. Hu no doubt wanted to make the point that he's on friendlier terms with U.S. industry than with the U.S. government." That would make him pretty much like the rest of the people who live here.
The question is this: Is it a problem if China is on better terms with U.S. businesses than it is with the U.S. government?
E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@cnn.com or go to cnn.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Maybe he was just trying to be practical, Jack. You know, on the way from Beijing to Washington, you've got to fly over Seattle anyhow.
CAFFERTY: Maybe.
BLITZER: Maybe. Thanks, Jack.
Up ahead, the embattled defense secretary facing calls for resignation. Meeting with top military commanders, retired military commanders, Donald Rumsfeld under fire. We'll talk -- talk about that with our own military analysts, including one of them who was at that meeting just a little while ago.
Also, major new developments in the Duke lacrosse rape scandal. Two players arrested. Will there be more?
Plus, the cost of crude hits a record high, promising more pain at the pump for all of us, the drivers. Our Ali Velshi will have "The Bottom Line" on a story that literally affects us all.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The questions are simple, the charges explosive. And yet, the search for the truth quite complicated. In North Carolina, there are new details in the case of an African-American woman who alleges she was raped by members of the Duke University lacrosse team.
Our Alina Cho is in Durham with the latest.
Alina, it's been a long day. Bring us up to date.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, very long, Wolf. And a very busy day here in North Carolina.
I can tell you, it all began very early this morning. To be precise, about 5:00 this morning, and that is when the two suspects were brought to the county jail not far from here for processing.
They arrived, were led away in handcuffs, briskly into the jail. They were fingerprinted, photographed, and then they appeared before the local magistrate, who set bail at $400,000 a piece.
Both of the suspects have posted bail. They are free on bond until their next court appearance. Now, a little about the suspects.
First, to Reade Seligmann. He is a 20-year-old sophomore from Essex Fells, New Jersey, a two-time all-American athlete who his attorney calls absolutely innocent.
Collin Finnerty, the second suspect, 19 years old, also a sophomore at Duke, from Garden City, New York. Several neighbors we spoke to say they would bet their life on his innocence.
Now, it could be a while before we know anything definitive about guilt or innocence, but having said that, Collin Finnerty, one of the suspects, did make his first court appearance in the building behind me this morning. Reade Seligmann, the other suspect, waived his right to appear.
The hearing was very short. Essentially what happened was Finnerty signed a waiver saying he did not need a court-appointed attorney. The judge then announced that the next court hearing is May 15th, a little less than a month from now, and that is when the D.A. will present his evidence to the defense.
Now, we are getting a little bit of an idea of how the defense may be laying out its case. It says that the two suspects charged in this case, Wolf, were not even at the party where the alleged rape occurred on the night in question. They say they have proof of that as well -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll be watching every step of the way. Thanks very much, Alina, for that.
Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton, is watching as well. She's picking up new details on the arrests of the Duke lacrosse players.
Abbi, what are you seeing?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, first of all, the indictments of the two suspects are available online at the Smoking Gun Web sites detailing three charges: forcible rape, sexual offense, and first-degree kidnapping. It names both Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty.
Digging around online, if you plug in Collin Finnerty's name, he actually -- his name comes up in a completely separate incident in a police report here in Washington, D.C., from November 5, 2005. He's one of three people arrested in that police report for simple assault here in Washington, D.C.
We've posted that incident report at cnn.com/situation report. We tried to reach Collin Finnerty's attorney in this and didn't get a response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Abbi, for that.
Coming up, oil prices hitting a record high, making gas prices certain to surge as well. Ali Velshi is standing by. He'll show us what the impact is having on the stock market.
Also, our CNN military analysts are standing by to talk about the calls for the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to step down. One of them, retired U.S. Air Force Major General Don Shepperd met today with Don Rumsfeld. He was inside the Pentagon. We'll get the inside story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Let's check in with our Ali Velshi in New York. He's in New York. He's got "The Bottom Line."
What are you working on, Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf.
Well, as we know, Chinese President Hu Jintao landed in Washington State today. It's his first official visit to the United States. And after those visits to Boeing and Microsoft, he's going to have a $20,000 a head dinner at Bill Gates' house.
Microsoft has lost a ton of money because China hasn't effectively cracked down on pirated versions of Windows software. But it does look like the Chinese are trying to make nice now.
Lenovo, which bought IBM's PC-making business, is now China's biggest computer maker, and it has said it's going to buy $1.2 billion of Microsoft software in the next year. Lenovo also says that 70 percent of its computers in China are now loaded with licensed copies of Windows. That's up from 10 percent just six months ago -- Wolf.
Now, given all the talk about knockoffs in China, it might come as a surprise to some people that the Chinese actually have a voracious appetite for real luxury goods. Saks is now planning to become the first foreign luxury department store. It's opening up an 8,000-square-foot -- or 800,000-square-foot store in Shanghai's historic waterfront Bund district, and that is one of the most expensive real estate areas in the world.
Now, in other news, Wolf, oil smashed through another record high today. Crude oil was up nearly $1, settling at $71.35.
It's the same supply concerns out of Iran and Nigeria that are causing it to go higher. And higher oil usually hurts stocks, but that didn't happen today.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
BLITZER: Ali, thank you very much.
Ali Velshi with "The Bottom Line."
And as Ali just explained, oil prices are reaching record highs. And the pain you feel at the pump is not expected to go away this summer. But are you paying more than you should?
Let's bring in our Mary Snow. She's in New York with more -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as prices rise, so are profits at big oil companies. And lawmakers are questioning whether there's any price gouging going on. Here in New York, Senator Charles Schumer earlier today asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice over): Gas prices are the highest they've been since just after Hurricane Katrina. Oil hit a new record, topping $71 a barrel. Skeptics are questioning whether it's all justified by oil and gas companies.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Are they doing this dictated by the laws of supply and demand, or is something else at work?
SNOW: At the White House, the president spelled out what that something else could mean.
BUSH: And I'm also mindful that the government has the responsibility to make sure that we watch very carefully and investigate possible price gouging, and we'll do just that.
SNOW: High prices took center stage when lawmakers grilled CEOs last month, questioning companies like ExxonMobil's $36 billion profit last year and its $400 million retirement package for the outgoing chairman Lee R. Raymond.
MEL FUGATE, SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY: Are they going to, you know, concentrate all these resources in executive compensation? Could they return them to shareholders? Could there be some sort of consumer relief?
SNOW: We called ExxonMobil for comment. They referred us to the American Petroleum Institute, which says refineries are still recovering from Hurricane Katrina last year but blames most of the higher prices on crude oil.
SARA BANASZAK, AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE: Fifty-nine percent of the price you pay at the pump is just the cost of acquiring the crude.
SNOW: Others say dependence on oil and gas by both the government and consumers are also to blame.
PHIL FLYNN, ALARON TRADING: It's nice to tell a guy who's mad about paying $3 a gallon when he's filling up his Hummer, saying, "Oh, those darn oil companies are making a lot of money." Sure, it makes them feel good, but it doesn't solve the problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SNOW: Now, a spokesman for the Federal Trade Commission says the agency will consider Senator Schumer's request seriously, but points out that two previous investigations into unfair business practices by the oil industry turned up no evidence of wrongdoing -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary, thank you very much. Solid report.
Coming up, general agreement or general unrest? Today, the defense secretary defended himself. And President Bush redrew his line in the sand over calls for Don Rumsfeld's resignation.
We'll have a generals roundtable with our three CNN military analysts. They're standing by here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, when President Bush misspeaks, some call them Bushisms. Now a new book hopes to coin the word Hillaryisms and hopes to use the senator's own words against her.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
And we'd like to welcome our international viewers as well as we look at our big story of the hour, the war over Donald Rumsfeld. President Bush today made it clear he is sticking with his defense secretary, and Rumsfeld fired back at half a dozen retired U.S. generals who have been calling on him to resign.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: We've got, what, 6,000, 7,000 retired admirals and generals? Anyone who thinks that they are going to be unanimous on anything, look at the votes in the House of Representatives. It's 51- 49, 55-45. The same thing in the Senate.
Look at our country when we vote. There are always differences of opinion. That's a healthy thing in this country. We ought to respect it and get about our business. But if it paralyzes people because someone doesn't agree with them, my goodness, gracious, we wouldn't be able to do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld launched a P.R. offensive today, meeting with a number of retired U.S. military commanders turned military analysts.
Let's turn now to our three CNN military analysts, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd. He was at the Pentagon meeting today. He's the author of a really excellent new book on his experiences in Vietnam with his fellow war pilot. That book is entitled "Bury Us Upside Down." And also here in THE SITUATION ROOM, our retired Army brigadier General James "Spider" Marks. And in Chicago, retired Army Brigadier General David Grange.
Generals, to all three of you, thanks very much for joining us.
And let me start with you, General Shepperd.
You were there. You saw the body language, the words up close with your military colleagues, with the defense secretary over at the Pentagon. Does this look like a man who is beaten down or ready to begin the fight?
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: He does not look beaten down at all. I was surprised.
I thought the focus of our meeting would be on the generals controversy calling for the resignation. He was very upbeat, he was humorous. He appeared very much as he did in the press conference. But he was very, very intense, Wolf, as he always is.
BLITZER: When you say "intense," give us a little nugget, a little flavor that underlined that for you.
SHEPPERD: Yes. I've never worked for Secretary Rumsfeld, but I've talked to a lot of people who have. And they say when you go up with him, you better have all of your stuff in one bag, because he will bore in on you like a laser, and he has one question after another. And if you don't have your stuff together, he doesn't have time for you.
He's a very, very intense man, but he's very, very likable. And he comes across in private meetings just like he does on the press conferences.
BLITZER: Here's what General Batiste said on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" last night. And he was a military commander, served in Iraq. Listen to these words that are very strong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. JOHN BATISTE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: And that's why we need a new secretary of defense. We have one now who has repeatedly made strategic mistakes, one after the other. And my question is, if we're going to continue the war on terrorism for a long time -- and I suspect we are -- why would we want to continue riding the same horse, where he has such a dismal track record?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld launched a P.R. offensive today, meeting with a number of retired U.S. military commanders turned military analysts.
Let's turn now to our three CNN military analysts, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd. He was at the Pentagon meeting today. He's the author of a really excellent new book on his experiences in Vietnam with his fellow war pilot. That book is entitled "Bury Us Upside Down."
And also here in THE SITUATION ROOM, our retired Army brigadier General James "Spider" Marks. And in Chicago, retired Army Brigadier General David Grange.
Generals, to all three of you, thanks very much for joining us.
And let me start with you, General Shepperd.
You were there. You saw the body language, the words up close with your military colleagues, with the defense secretary over at the Pentagon. Does this look like a man who is beaten down or ready to begin the fight?
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: He does not look beaten down at all. I was surprised.
I thought the focus of our meeting would be on the generals controversy calling for the resignation. He was very upbeat, he was humorous. He appeared very much as he did in the press conference. But he was very, very intense, Wolf, as he always is.
BLITZER: When you say "intense," give us a little nugget, a little flavor that underlined that for you.
SHEPPERD: Yes. I've never worked for Secretary Rumsfeld, but I've talked to a lot of people who have. And they say when you go up with him, you better have all of your stuff in one bag, because he will bore in on you like a laser, and he has one question after another. And if you don't have your stuff together, he doesn't have time for you.
He's a very, very intense man, but he's very, very likable. And he comes across in private meetings just like he does on the press conferences.
BLITZER: Here's what General Batiste said on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" last night. And he was a military commander, served in Iraq. Listen to these words that are very strong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. JOHN BATISTE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: And that's why we need a new secretary of defense. We have one now who has repeatedly made strategic mistakes, one after the other. And my question is, if we're going to continue the war on terrorism for a long time -- and I suspect we are -- why would we want to continue riding the same horse, where he has such a dismal track record?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now, General Batiste, correct me if I'm wrong, he speaks with a lot of authority given his battle record, General Marks. BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Oh, he does. And also bear in mind that General Batiste was the military assistant to the deputy secretary, Paul Wolfowitz. So he was a part of that very inner circle. And as they say, he smelled the coffee on the breath of the sec def and the dep sec def when they were conducting the very finite and very precise discussions on how to prosecute and to set up the various constructs for the fight going into Iraq.
BLITZER: So when he says the country needs a new defense secretary right now, how do you react as a retired U.S. military officer?
MARKS: Well, I certainly would not go so far as to say we need to get a new sec def at this point. I think -- I think frankly, when the president has so emphatically and so emotionally supported this secretary, the story is over. I mean, the secretary in fact today said I'm not resigning. So he will not be asked to depart, nor will he resign of his own volition. But it is compelling when John Batiste, who has a great track record as a warrior and in the inner circles of the policy decisions, speaks out as he has.
BLITZER: This is how the defense secretary, General Grange, put it earlier today. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: I think that it's important to put all of what's going on in context, and recognize that people who are often talking about what's taking place inside here don't know what's taking place inside here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Except in General Batiste's case, General Grange, he obviously knew what was going on in the Pentagon. He also knew what was going on, on the battlefield in Iraq.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think that General Batiste and some of the other general officers that have spoken out do know what's going on. They don't -- they are not privy to everything, but at least in their area of operations when they did serve.
However, again, it's just the opinion of several officers that served, good officers, very credible officers, but it's their opinion. And so, everybody talks about how you conducted a war, your strategy or tactics. I don't think that's the issue. I mean, history books are going to show that anyway.
The issue is, is there a communication challenge within the Department of Defense? Just like any organization, communications is usually the reason for some of these things to happen.
BLITZER: Is there a problem, General Grange, of a trickle-down effect that the political battles that are -- that we're watching here in Washington, the political problems trickle down to the commanders and the troops on the ground in Iraq and could have a demoralizing effect on those warriors?
GRANGE: Well, you know, the military, the mission of the military is to execute political decisions, whether it's the decision nationally to go to war or whatever the case may be. It's the extension of politics.
But the fact is that the military stays out of politics when they are serving. They have the right to speak up in uniform within their chain of command behind closed doors. You don't do that publicly. When you retire, you have the right to do that.
Some of the discussion is, well, how soon do you speak up? Is it appropriate for especially a military general to criticize the administration once they put on a civilian suit? Is it one year? Is it five years? Never? That's also under debate.
You know, there is a lot of hype on these criticisms. I think that the people in place are very capable, and I would like to get this thing resolved myself so we can continue on with this war effort.
BLITZER: The war effort goes on. General Shepperd, you were there inside the Pentagon today with the defense secretary. Did you get the sense that it's inappropriate, not only from Rumsfeld but some of his other associates who were there with him for retired -- retired U.S. military officers, generals, to go from the battlefield, take off their uniform and then go out and speak publicly and explain their views? Because as you know, there's a history. General Eisenhower went into politics. General Colin Powell once he gave up the uniform went into politics. General Wesley Clark ran for president in 2004, spoke out very strongly against the president of the United States. At what point is it appropriate for a general to do that upon retirement? What point isn't it appropriate?
SHEPPERD: I don't know for sure, but clearly once you enter the political atmosphere where you are running for public office, you are fair game and fair game to say anything you want. The question is whether or not it's appropriate to do what these generals are doing.
I would say that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Pace and Rumsfeld, are both puzzled by this. They thought they had been consultive. They went over all of the people at the meetings, 50 or 60 meetings that concurred in the strategy, made comments, then the strategy was decided upon. Someone had to make a decision, and they are puzzled by all this furor.
What we said as military analysts there was, you know, the old story that victory has 1,000 fathers and defeat is an orphan. The problem is that the American public does not perceive that the war is going well, and what they need to see is a big event or progress, and they are not seeing that. That's the problem.
BLITZER: Do you get any -- any bottom line at your meeting today, the briefing for the highest ranking Pentagon officials, that there was progress in Iraq? That they see some light at the end of this tunnel?
SHEPPERD: They feel that there's progress. Not light at the end of the tunnel. They think it's going to be a long, hard struggle in many places. But what they said unanimously and immediately when we asked the question, what's the next big event that's going to take place? They said the formation of the Iraqi government is the most important. You can train all the Iraqi troops, but those troops have to be loyal to the government in which the people have confidence. They see that as the next big event before anything else can happen.
BLITZER: These four retired generals wrote in "The Wall Street Journal" yesterday in support of Donald Rumsfeld. "At best such comments may send a confusing message to our troops deployed on dangerous missions in Afghanistan and Iraq, and worse they can also inspire and motivate the evil forces we seek to defeat." The bottom line is that the enemy in this particular case, the insurgents or the Taliban, or whoever we're fighting in Afghanistan, they are listening to this debate presumably as well.
MARKS: Oh, they are, Wolf. And I've got to tell you that, first of all, the very first point is that Private Marks who is in the field today, really could care less who the secretary of defense is. That young soldier, that young Marine, whoever that person is serving in uniform, has a lieutenant and has a sergeant, and that individual is focused on the very next mission. So that's kind of point number one.
Also bear in mind, the secretary of the Army was fired about three weeks after we got into Baghdad back in the spring of '03. Did the Army miss a beat? Of course not. The Army is a big organization. It can continue to move forward. There is no indispensable man. So on that point, I think the troop on the ground is A-OK. Frankly, he's going to be -- she's going to be all right.
BLITZER: What you -- I want to let General Grange weigh in as well. Do you agree with that assessment?
GRANGE: Well, that's right, the private doesn't care. But I think it does have an effect on the morale of the officer corps, in particular the senior NCOs. And the concern is -- and that's why I'd like to get this thing, if we have any influence on it, over with, because you got two points here. One is, if you don't speak out, you have a situation like Vietnam, where maybe too many people didn't say anything. If you do speak out, do you erode the morale of the officer corps and the will of the people to continue on with this war?
And by the way, the bad guys kind of like to hear this stuff. They like to hear that we have a little bit of friction in the ranks. So just for the benefit of defeating the enemy and winning this thing, I'd like to see it get resolved and move on.
BLITZER: General Grange, thanks very much for joining us. General Marks, as usual, thanks to you as well, and a special thanks to General Shepperd, who came over here from the Pentagon from that briefing. Appreciate it very much.
And to our international viewers, this note: Please rejoin Becky Anderson now for more on this very topic. Thanks for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program at the top of the hour. He's standing by to tell us what he's working on -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Wolf, thank you very much. Coming up at 6:00 Eastern, here on CNN, our middle class under assault. Record gasoline prices are going higher. Congress and President Bush doing what they usually do for the middle class. We'll have that special report.
And three of this country's top radio talk show hosts join us here tonight: Randi Rhodes, Mark Simone and James Mtume. And communist China's president has arrived in the United States for a four-day visit, he'll be talking with the head man in Washington -- Washington state that is, and a fellow by the name of Gates. Do you suppose President Hu is sending a message to the Bush administration? Three leading American analysts will join us tonight to focus on communist China's rising economic and military challenge to the United States, in this hemisphere particularly. All of that and more coming up at 6:00, please join us.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. Sounds like a good program.
Still to come -- building bridges with China. We're going to have a little on this as well. As the president of China visits the United States, is it a problem if China is on better terms with U.S. businesses than with the U.S. government? That's Jack's question of the hour. He'll be back with the "Cafferty File."
And you already get around by air and by land, but what if you could travel deep beneath the sea? We'll introduce you to an amazing new option for a commute. Miles O'Brien has that story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Donald Rumsfeld says no one is indispensable. The defense secretary isn't giving up on those calls for his resignation. Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, has been thinking about Donald Rumsfeld and his political predicament -- Jeff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN POLITICAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, since our modern civilized society has outlawed bare baited (ph) and cock fighting, we have to make do with watching high government official try to fend off demands with their head. Donald Rumsfeld is only the latest example. But, how do we know when the White House is circling the wagons or greasing the skids?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not resign if indicted.
GREENFIELD (voice-over): Sometimes the reason for the departure is absolutely clear. Vice President Agnew quit in 1973 as part of a plea bargain to stay out of prison for taking bribes. Agriculture Secretary Earl Buck was fired by President Ford in 1976 for telling an obscene racist joke.
JIMMY CARTER, FMR. U.S. PRESIDENT: Our disappointments...
GREENFIELD: And sometimes there is no backroom campaign. President Carter fired four cabinet secretaries in 1979 with virtually no warning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A subject of discussion.
GREENFIELD: Other times the maneuvering is worthy of a soap opera or maybe a farce. President Ronald Reagan's chief of staff, Ronald Regan, incurred the wrath of staffers for not protecting President Reagan from the Iran contra mess and for an imperious style. But when he angered Nancy Reagan, his fate was sealed. A series of leads to the media set the stage for Regan's exit, in fact, that was how he learned of his departure.
JOHN H. SUNUNU, FMR. CHIEF OF STAFF: I became a political burden.
GREENFIELD: And when John Sununu, chief of staff of the first President Bush, lost the confidence of his boss, he'd used White House transformation for personal business among other things, stories of his looming exit from insider leaks kept popping up. Finally George W. Bush was dispatched to let Sununu know it was time to go.
But sometimes it's hard to read the tea leaves or smoke signals from 1600 Pennsylvania. Treasury Secretary John Snow, for example, has supposedly been on his way out for more than a year, but he's still at his post. And in the case of Donald Rumsfeld, it's not the White House hinting that he should go, it's critics of the Iraq war policy, including those half dozen retired generals, a critique which obviously implicates President Bush and Vice President Cheney every bit as much as Rumsfeld.
What critics may be hoping for is a policy reversal, the kind that happened during Vietnam when Defense Secretary Robert McNamara was replaced by long-time LBJ ally Clark Clifford. The hawkish Clifford quickly decided the war was unwinnable and persuaded LBJ to move toward negotiation rather than toward further escalation.
(on camera): Which raises this small question: In all the clamor over Rumsfeld is there any suggestion that a new defense secretary might have a new approach that might increase the chances for progress in Iraq -- Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Jeff, good question. Thanks very much.
Up ahead, is it a problem if China is on better terms with U.S. businesses than with the U.S. government? It's our question of the hour. Jack Cafferty going through your e-mail. And first there were Bushisms, now quotable quotes from the former first lady. The current senator, Hillary Rodham Clinton. CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a closer look. That's coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends at the "Associated Press," pictures likely to be in your newspaper tomorrow. In Iran, the military shows off for Army Day. At the parade, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Iran would cut off the hands of any aggressor and place the sign of disgrace on their forehead.
In China, a woman tries to make her way through a sandstorm in downtown Beijing. The state media announced the government plans to artificially create rain to help clear the dust, they didn't explain how this would be done. In Hong Kong, a sea jelly spectacular. It's a new exhibit at Asia's first jellyfish aquarium.
And in Kansas, look at this, a fourth grade teacher kisses a pig wearing lipstick. He promised his students to do it if they scored higher than 80 percent on the state math test. There he is. There's the kiss. Some of today's hot shots. A picture's often worth a thousand words.
Let's go back to Zain at the CNN Center in Atlanta with some other stories making news right now -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Wolf, a psychologist says Zacarias Moussaoui is a delusional paranoid schizophrenic. His testimony is among the latest as the defense tried to persuade jurors to sentence the Al Qaeda conspirator to life in prison rather than death. After jurors left the room Moussaoui was heard saying, "crazy or not crazy, that is the question."
There are more arrests in connection with the failed suicide bomb attack against a key Saudi Arabian oil facility. Saudi security forces are saying five suspected terrorists are in custody, eight others were arrested last month. Two terrorists and two guards died in the February attack on the Abqaiq processing site which is the world's largest.
In the Balkans, high waters and rising worries as the River Danube surged to record levels. In Serbia, the warts are receding, but only after causing major damage to homes and farms. In part so Romania, thousands evacuated and crews are shoring up water defenses. One Romanian villager said they're "simply at god's mercy." Water in the River Danube rose after a Spring snow melt and heavy rains in recent weeks.
And in Tennessee, officials are performing forensic tests on a bear to see if it's the same bear that killed a 6-year-old girl last Thursday and injured the girl's mother and brother. Early results have been inconclusive. Meanwhile, officials say they'll continue to trap bears around the Cherokee National Forest -- Wolf. BLITZER: Thanks very much, Zain. See you in another hour.
Should states use the Internet to post detailed information on convicted sex offenders? There are now new concerns following Sunday's murder of two men listed on Maine's sex offender registry Web site. Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is following this story.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, this is the site Steven Marshall visited. He looked up 34 names, including those of the two men he allegedly murdered. They have some 2,200 names on this registry and in addition to address and date of birth they have identifying characteristics, place of employment, and often a photograph. Maine says it's not going to take this registry down. They think the public service outweighs the risk. There's a renewed call from the ACLU in Vermont to take down the Vermont sex registry website. That is also a searchable database; they don't have as much information. They, too say that the importance to the public far outweighs the risks.
Now, the U.S. Department of Justice also maintains a national sex offender public registry. This is information culled from individual states. They have 48 states, including Guam and the District of Columbia. The only two not online are South Dakota and Oregon. Oregon will be on line July 1 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thanks. Let's go back to Jack in New York -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: China's President Hu Jintao arrived in the U.S. today for his first official visit. He will visit Microsoft and Boeing in Seattle, Washington. Mr. Hu won't get around to making it to the White House until Thursday. The question is, is it a problem if China's on better terms with U.S. business than it is with the U.S. government.
Jacqueline writes, "China being on better terms with and therefore more interest in U.S. business than the U.S. government is no problem at all. The U.S. government is more interested in and on better terms with U.S. business than with U.S. citizens."
James in Seattle, "No, jack, it's not a problem at all, in fact, it's a blessing. U.S. corporations have been around and will be for generations. Our current U.S. government's on its way out, so no need to worry about being chummy with those cronies."
Terry in Fayetteville, North Carolina, "China looks after China's business interests. Bush looks after China's business interests. They have similar interests. What's the problem?"
Stephanie in Auburn, Washington, "well, of course, American businesses are kissing the back sides of the Chinese so they can export jobs there and make lots of money. At least our government's not on good terms with the communist country. It's unfortunate companies like Microsoft and Boeing are stooping to such a level."
Mary in Rochester, New York, "At this point, U.S. businesses are the U.S. government. That's the problem for the rest of us."
And Milford in Des Moines, Iowa writes, "The government's rated at 30 to 40 percent approval. Industry gained almost 200 points today. The Chinese have it right." -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We got a lot of smart viewers out there, Jack. Thanks you very much. I'll see you back in an hour, as well.
Up next, do you think underwater exploration in the future only will be for the Ballards' or the Jacques Cousteus'? Think again Miles O'Brien is about to take you on a trip beneath the deep blue. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: All right. Are the skies getting too crowded for you lately? How about traveling underwater? CNN's Miles O'Brien has more in today's edition of "Welcome to the Future" -- Miles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILE O'BRIEN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in many respects we know a lot more about outer space than inner space -- what lies beneath the deep blue sea. And since oceans cover more than two- thirds of our planet, that leaves a big hole in our understanding of the world around us, but there is a new fish in the sea.
(voice-over): Graham Hawkes, founder of Hawkes Ocean Technologies, has created a vehicle that can fly through water.
GRAHAM HAWKES, HAWKES OCEAN TECHNOLOGIES: And the Wright brothers really did that a few years ago. But we're taking that into this big deep blue space.
O'BRIEN: Built like a jet, these winged submersibles dive more than 1,500 feet with speeds up to 12 knots.
HAWKS: In terms of filming, studying animals, it's going to be a whole new ball game. You can put on a big suction cup on the front and try and grab animals out of mid-water.
O'BRIEN: But, you don't have to be a Marine biologist to get in on the fun. Hawkes flight schools let amateurs become deep sea explorers and his ultimate goal, to reach the deepest depths of the ocean, about 37,000 feet below.
Just Google this planet and you'll see it's all blue. Our future lies with in understanding exploring the ocean.
O'BRIEN (on camera): Graham Hawkes told us he thinks winged submersibles will eventually be as common as small airplanes and comparable in cost. So one day we may see people getting their pilots license to fly underwater -- Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Miles, thank you very much. Fascinating material all week long, "Welcome to the Future," an important feature here, in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And remember we're in THE SITUATION ROOM weekday afternoons from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern, we're back in one hour at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Coming up in an hour, first there were Bushisms, those quotable quotes from the president of the United States and now there are Hillaryisms from the former first lady, Senator Hillary Clinton. Only Jeanne Moos can take a look at all of this and she's going to be joining us in the 7:00 p.m. hour, here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Until then, thanks very much for joining us, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now and Lou is standing by.
Hi Lou.
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