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The Situation Room
Parties Spar Over Rising Gas Prices; Zarqawi Releases New Tape; President Bush Meeting With Leaders To Discuss Immigration Reform; Poll Shows Mixed Views On Immigration Problem; Illegal Gun Summit; Michael Bloomberg Interview
Aired April 25, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Ali. And to our viewers you are now in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters from across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now a vivid new reminder of the terrorist threat. A video message apparently from the al Qaeda leader in Iraq. It's midnight in Baghdad where insurgents are getting encouraging new words about their fight against U.S. troops.
President Bush puts new wheels in motion in hopes of easing gas prices. It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington where Republicans and Democrats are stepping up their fighting and finger pointing over fuel costs.
Also this hour, bipartisan talks at the White House and immigration reform. New evidence that Americans have mixed emotions about the border wars. We'll reveal the numbers and the surprises in our brand new immigration poll. I'm Wolf Blitzer and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now U.S. officials are analyzing a brand new taped message to determine if it is really from one of America's most wanted men. An Islamic Web site is posting a video that appears to be video of the al Qaeda leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. This comes just two days after the new Osama bin Laden audiotape. Let's go to our national security correspondent, David Ensor. He's following the developments. David, what have we learned.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The CIA is conducting a technical analysis of the new video Web cast, but a U.S. counter terrorism official already says it does indeed appear to be Zarqawi.
Officials say Zarqawi appears to have decided the propaganda benefits of putting out his first video, full face on camera, outweighs the potential risk.
There is risk. Zarqawi has now provided U.S. intelligence and the military with many new pictures from all angles. You can imagine the new images will be in the hands of U.S. and Iraqi soldiers in no time. That does make him more vulnerable. Officials say the video shows Zarqawi's ambition, his aspiration for a global leadership role among Muslim jihadi extremists. They say the tape also seems to be an effort to suggest unity among insurgents in Iraq since it refers to the Mujahedeen Sharia Council.
As for the content, counter terrorism officials are still analyzing it in detail. One called it a lot of jihadist bravado. Zarqawi's group put this video on the Web for two reasons. First, it is less risky than sending a tape through multiple couriers to an Arabic language station, the technique that is usually employed by Osama bin Laden and his number two. Second, put it on the Web and it's quick. You control the timing of when it goes public-- Wolf.
BLITZER: Got to believe intelligence analysts around the world are going to be studying this video potentially for clues of his whereabouts. David, we'll have a lot more on this story throughout THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much. And we're going to have new poll numbers this hour, as well, on the overall Iraq mission and the insurgent threat. We're going to bring all of that to you shortly right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We'll move on to some other stories we're following. Important stories right here in the U.S., as well. President Bush shows he's feeling the heat over those soaring gas prices and Democrats keep trying to turn the fire up another notch.
Today Mr. Bush announced some new moves to try to give Americans some relief at the pump, including one aimed at the strategic oil reserve and another at possible price gougers. Our Congressional correspondent, Andrea Koppel is standing by on the Hill with Democratic reaction. Let's go to the White House for a complete update first. Our correspondent Ed Henry standing by.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Wolf. President Bush got an up close look at the soaring gas prices today. Ironically enough, on his way to this energy speech, his motorcade passed an Exxon gas station here in Washington across from the Watergate Hotel that was selling gas at $3.49 per gallon.
Democrats pointing out that when Mr. Bush took office in 2001 the average price across the country was $1.46 per gallon. It has doubled in five years. Amid this heavy political pressure, the president's poll numbers dropping as gas prices rise. He decided to unveil a four point plan today.
First and foremost he announced a federal investigation of allegations of alleged price gouging. Secondly, the president has decided to temporarily stop deposits of the nation's strategic petroleum reserve to try to increase supply, ease the burden on consumers. Take a listen to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our strategic reserve is sufficiently large enough to guard against any major supply disruption over the next few months. By deferring deposits until the fall, we'll leave a little more oil on the market. Every little bit helps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now the president is also promoting greater fuel efficiency, encouraging energy companies as well to help invest in alternative fuels, something a theme he hit on Saturday, Earth Day speech where he was talking about hydrogen powered cars.
Still White House Spokesman Scott McClellan today acknowledged the White House is not sure that any of the moves will have any meaningful impact and really lower gas prices. But the bottom line is that in the short-term Republicans are fearful that these rising gas prices could fuel a Democratic takeover of Congress in November. So the bottom line is this White House is trying anything it can right now to try to take a bite out of those prices.
BLITZER: Ed, thanks very much. The president made it clear, though, he does strongly oppose any windfall profit tax on what some regard as the excessive profits of the major oil companies. Let's get some Democratic reaction from the Hill. Our Congressional correspondent, Andrea Koppel, standing by.
ANDREA KOPPELL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One day after Republicans sought to minimize the political fallout over higher prices at the pump, Democrats came out swinging.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: The alarm is there because the American people are so angry they can't stand it. It's an imposition on every family in this country.
KOPPELL (voice-over): Just back from recess, Democrats rushed to tap into growing outrage over rising gas prices. And with one press conference after another, three in the Senate, one in the House, launched a blitzkrieg, seeking to put Mr. Bush and Republicans on the defensive.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: We have two oil men in the White House. The logical follow-up for that is three dollar a gallon gasoline. There is no accident. It is a cause and effect.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: There are five words missing from the president's speech today. Get tough on big oil. The president refuses to do that.
KOPPEL: But Democratic Senator Bob Menendez says he is and called on Congress to repeal over $6 billion in tax breaks to big oil. Menendez proposed using that money to fund a federal gas tax holiday to temporarily eliminate the federal tax on gas and diesel for two months, reducing the cost of gas by about 18 cent as gallon. Democrats say that would offer Americans about $100 million a day in relief.
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: These windfall profits taking place today are inexcusable when a consumer has to pay 90 to $100 to fill their tank. Absolutely inexcusable.
KOPPELL: Republicans responded there is no quick fix.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We need to help them find relief. We know there is no single magic bullet.
KOPPELL: But seven months away from midterm elections and with President Bush at his lowest approval ratings yet, the Democrats' message, put them in the driver's seat.
LAUTENBERG: They can't manage the war. They can't manage gas prices. They can't manage the environment. They can't do any of the things that leadership is supposed to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPELL: But Republicans counter that they are prepared to do anything they can to ease the burden on the American consumer and say they plan to work on another energy bill that they hope to bring to a vote later this summer. They say that Democrats have been obstructionists and have done nothing but stand in the way. Wolf, I think it's fair to say the blame game is going to continue at least until the November elections-- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Andrea. Andrea on Capitol Hill. We're going to have a lot more on the price of gasoline coming up this hour in our "Strategy Session."
There's another big election year issue on the front burner. That would be immigration reform. President Bush meeting with some top members of Congress at the White House right now. Democrats and Republicans and the Senate -- as the Senate works to try to break the stalemate over immigration legislation.
In just a moment we'll bring you a brand new poll that we have that highlights the public's mixed views on border security and illegal immigrants. Let's get some more, though, we'll go up to our Congressional correspondent, Dana Bash. She is following the story for us.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well the senators are back now and after a two-week recess IT seems as though there is even more pressure on them. When they were back home with their constituents, it was very clear that this election year issue, immigration, has really, really taken off.
And they are facing though the same issue they faced before they left and that is there is a broad consensus over a compromise that would allow millions of illegal workers to become U.S. citizens, but there is total deadlock in how to get that through the Senate. That is what this meeting at the White House, which is going on as we speak, is all about.
Essentially what Republican and Democratic senators were telling us today is that it is time for the president to really engage, really step in. If he wants this as a victory, if he wants this to happen, to get to his desk, he needs to say more clearly what he will and will not support beyond what he said yesterday, which is that this compromise approach here is, quote, "interesting."
Now meanwhile, Wolf, we were with the Senate Majority leader Bill Frist while he was testing the presidential waters yesterday in Iowa. And though he was been a key architect of this compromise that is kind of still floating up here, he told us that he actually agrees with conservative critics who oppose it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL FIRST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: What has happened now in terms of the amnesty provision -- I'm against amnesty -- is we have a good compromise bill on the floor that in my mind goes too far in terms of amnesty itself. I insist on the opportunity for Democrats and Republicans to be able to amend that bill to improve it and to make that bill better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now that confused some Democrats and Republicans trying to figure out exactly what Bill Frist is for and against when it comes to the very sticky issue of immigration, especially among Republicans. Very quickly, wolf, The Senate is going to try to appeal to the conservatives who are opposed to this by saying that $2 billion will be added in funding, emergency funding, for border security. Wolf?
BLITZER: Switching gears a little bit on the White House shake- up and White House relations with the Congress, what are we hearing about someone staying in the White House as opposed to leaving?
BASH: Well there had been a lot of speculation that Candi Wolff, who is the president's chief liaison to Capitol Hill to the lawmakers here in Congress, would be asked to leave.
There was enough grumbling about the relations between the White House and Congress that she would be part of the White House shake-up. Well we're told that she at least for now, will not be. That in senior staff meeting yesterday morning the new White House chief-of- staff Josh Bolten made very clear that she still has his confidence and I'm told by somebody in the meeting the confidence of the president. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thank you, Dana. Now to our brand new poll numbers on immigration. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider has the details and the surprises. Bill, what are you hearing?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, illegal immigration is not a simple problem and the public's view of the problem is actually pretty sophisticated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): The immigration debate is about three issues. The first is controlling the border. On that, the public's priorities are clear. BUSH: The American people are right in saying to the government, enforce the border.
SCHNEIDER: How? Well by increasing penalties for employers who hire illegal immigrants. That's something the bill that passed the House of Representatives would do. More than two-thirds of Americans approve.
The bill proposes adding 700 miles of fence along the border with Mexico. How does the public feel about that? Split. People are not sure the fence will work. And the views of Americans who live in border states? They are also split.
The second issue is citizenship for the more than 11 million illegal immigrants already here. The bill being considered by the Senate would allow illegal immigrants whose have been in the U.S. for more than five years to earn U.S. citizenship. More than three quarters of Americans say fine. Isn't that amnesty?
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: That is not amnesty because the undocumented aliens will have to pay a fine. They will have to pay back taxes. They will undergo a thorough background investigation. They will have to learn English. They will have to work for six years.
SCHNEIDER: The third issue is a guest worker program.
BUSH: Doesn't it make sense to have a rational temporary worker plan that says you don't need to sneak across the border?
SCHNEIDER: The public is not sure. Why?
DR. BARRY CHISWICK, ECONOMIST, UNIV. OF ILLINOIS: When the guest worker period is over, how does one get them to leave the country?
SCHNEIDER: Do Republicans follow the president's lead on this? A little, but even Republicans are not enthusiastic about President Bush's guest worker plan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The public wants to prevent more illegal immigrants from coming in, whether it's through broken borders or through a guest worker program. But people do not favor a harsh or punitive policy towards those who are already here. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thank you, Bill. And thanks to Bill and Andrea and Ed and Dana, all part of the best political team on television: CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
In California, the immigration debate apparently is becoming dangerous. The governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, says Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and the lieutenant governor, Cruz Bustamante, have both received death threats.
The two Hispanic officials oppose the criminalization of illegal immigrants and support ways to help undocumented workers to become citizens. We're going to have a live report from L.A. in our next hour, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
In a meantime, we'll go up to New York for a live report from our own Jack Cafferty, who's standing by. Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney is going to run for reelection. but she's got competition. Hank Johnson, a lawyer and two-term member of the DeKalb County Commission, plans to run against McKinney in July's Democratic primary.
Johnson, who's also black, will challenge McKinney for the seat in the mostly black and Democratic district. McKinney told reporters yesterday, quote, "people love me because I tell the truth," unquote.
But it's yet to be seen if the voters have had enough of the congresswoman. A grand jury is considering whether to indict McKinney for allegedly punching a Capitol Hill police officer. McKinney's most recent controversy involved calling an aide a fool over an open microphone. She then demanded that an Atlanta television station that captured the foot-in-mouth episode not use her comments. Well they did, we did, everybody did.
One more thing: James Myart, a prominent Texas civil rights lawyer who McKinney hired after her altercation with a police officer issued a statement saying that he no longer represents her.
Here's the question: if you lived in Congresswoman's Cynthia McKinney's district, would you vote to reelect her? E-mail us at CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.
BLITZER: Thank you, Jack. We'll get back to those e-mail later this hour. Coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM, should President Bush fire Donald Rumsfeld? What do you think? We've got some new poll numbers that ask that question. We're going to show you the results.
Also, it was anything but a warm welcome for the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, in Greece. Our Zain Verjee following that story.
And big-city mayors take aim at illegally obtained guns. It's 4:00 p.m. in New York City, actually it is 4:15, 4:16 p.m. in New York City, scene of a summit on gun crime. I'm going to speak with the host of that summit the New York City mayor, Michael Bloomberg. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Got two big interviews coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Senator Ted Kennedy will be in THE SITUATION ROOM, we'll talk about a wide range of issues. And the New York City's Michael Bloomberg will be here as well. That's coming up.
Right now though, more of our new CNN poll numbers, first on Iraq and public pessimism about the state of the U.S. military and diplomatic mission there. Americans remain deeply divided about whether the U.S. or Iraqi insurgents are winning the war. Most -- 58 percent -- believe neither side is winning.
Americans also are split about whether Donald Rumsfeld should lose his job because of failures in Iraq. Thirty-nine percent say the president should fire his Pentagon chief, 35 percent say Rumsfeld should stay, 26 percent are not sure.
And the public is wary about the prospect of a U.S. military action in Iran. Most -- 46 percent -- are against any military action there, even if other efforts fail. All in our new CNN poll.
Let's bring back Zain Verjee. She's joining us from the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news. Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Self-defeating and isolating -- that's how Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice describes Iran's nuclear stance. In Greece, Rice says Iran's position on nuclear development is isolating it from the international community.
Meanwhile, Iran's chief nuclear negotiator warns that Iran will end its ties with the International Atomic Energy Agency if the United Nations Security Council imposes sanctions against Tehran. That move would effectively put Iran on the outside of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
While Secretary of State Rice was inside meeting with officials in Greece, this was the scene outside. Take a look at this. Many groups of protesters in Athens rioting against the war in Iraq, as well as U.S. foreign policy. They smashed windows, storefronts, threw gas bombs and rocks and clashed with police. Greece is considered a seat of anti-American sentiment throughout Europe.
And from demonstrations to celebrations, in Nepal, thousands of people cheering the decision by the Nepalese King Gyanendra to reinstate the country's Parliament that he dissolved four years ago. Pro-democracy supporters and political parties opposed to the king have called off their demonstrations that have lasted for weeks. Many people plan instead to come out for a big victory parade. Nepal's king says that Parliament will convene this Friday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you.
Up next, the president lays out plans to try to slow down gas prices, but will his proposals make any different? I'll ask James Carville and Dick Armey. They're standing by in today's "Strategy Session."
And later, New York's mayor puts illegally obtained guns in his sights. I'll speak with Michael Bloomberg about a summit to try to curb illegal weapons. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Today in our "Strategy Session," gas prices are causing drivers pain at the pump. Will there also be a political price to pay? Can anything bring down cost before the summer driving season?
Joining us now is CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist James Carville, and the former House majority leader Dick Armey, now chairman of freedomworks.org. Thanks to both of you for coming in.
Let's listen to a little bit of what the president said today on the increasing gas prices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: First thing is to make sure that the American consumers are treated fairly at the gas pump. Americans understand by and large that the price of crude oil is going up and that the prices are going up, but what they don't want and will not accept is manipulation of the market. And neither will I.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, what do you think? James, his strategy is directly going out there and saying if anyone is gouging the American public, they are going to -- the federal government is going to take action.
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Who can disagree with that? I mean, he comes to the table. Look, we have got the president. He's for amnesty for illegal aliens, he's for having more science and math teachers. Now he's going after oil companies, wants to take their tax breaks away.
Look, I think he's starting to move in the direction that I'm certainly more comfortable with. I don't know how much he got there but you have to ask Mr. Armey, probably a little dicey on this kind of stuff than I am.
BLITZER: He did make it clear that he would oppose any windfall profit tax, excessive tax, new taxes on the oil companies to return some of the huge profits ExxonMobil and the other companies have been making to the American people.
DICK ARMEY (R), FORMER HOUSE MAJ. LEADER: Well, you have to understand in the first instance, this is fundamentally supply and demand. Demand goes up domestically in the summer. We know that. We now have a growing world demand. We have serious restrictions in supply because -- largely because of Katrina.
We shut down certain refineries on the coast and then that overtaxed a lot of our refineries that now have to shut down for maintenance. The fact is, the fundamental problem is supply and demand.
Now, when earnings go up, and if in fact profits do exist, that should attract more people in the market. One of the things I think we need to do is look at ways to reduce the barriers to entry to allow the creation, construction of more refinery facilities and even for that matter exploration.
BLITZER: There hasn't been a new refinery built in this country in three decades.
CARVILLE: Well, even Lee Raymond, the $400 million president of Exxon said that they weren't -- they're not going to build more refineries because if you build more refineries, what is going to happen is you're going to increase supply which would cause the price to go down. Oil companies aren't stupid.
And the president also -- hint, hint -- is saying well, we're going to waive some environmental regulations, which is of course -- when I say that I like what he's saying, if I thought that he was sincere about any of it, I probably would fall down on the floor here.
BLITZER: You won't be surprised, Dick Armey, that Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House sees what some would argue would be a conspiracy of sorts. She directly blames the administration for these extraordinarily high prices. Listen to what she says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: We have two oil men in the White House. The logical follow-up for that is $3 a gallon gasoline. There is no accident. It is a cause and effect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You're smiling.
ARMEY: Well, I'm smiling because I'm an economist by training, and I've studied on political discourse for years. And political discourse is purposely ignorant of economics, and Nancy just gave us a perfect example. Now, she's a smart lady, she's a bright lady, she's an able lady, but she is a politician.
The fact of the matter is the fundamental problem is as world demand is going up, domestic demand goes up in the summer. We have heavy constraints on our limited domestic refinery capability. And we haven't made full exploration of those crude resources available to us.
BLITZER: You know, I was going to say a lot of Americans do believe what Nancy Pelosi is suggesting, that Bush's got some deal going with the oil companies, Cheney has got a deal going with the oil companies.
CARVILLE: First of all, this administration ran against Al Gore on $1.47 a gas and now it's 3.47. So I don't have much sympathy here. They pursued a high consumption, no conservation policy by intent. So are we surprised that as the demand went up because that was a strategy they pursued to satisfy the people in the oil patch, they further pursued a lower ...
BLITZER: So you agree with Nancy Pelosi?
CARVILLE: Well, I think we should make -- the strategy of this administration has never been to conserve, it's to always meet it with -- to meet it with -- to meet this with more consumption, and do nothing about it.
Now we have the president, almost laughingly, with the renewable fuels people. I -- I mean, look...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... if they wanted to put a windfall profit tax, dedicate that to alternative fuels, that might be a good idea.
ARMEY: Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
BLITZER: Is that a good idea?
ARMEY: Well, I mean, again, there's no -- there's no corner on hypocrisy and on -- we have got, for example, Teddy Kennedy trying to stop Cape Wind out in Nantucket Sound...
CARVILLE: But...
ARMEY: ... while he puts out a book and says, we have got to have more wind resources.
CARVILLE: Right.
ARMEY: You have to understand that, for the most part, these are the short-run manifestations of a long-run neglect on the supply side of a critical energy supply in America, for which there is an increasing consumption demand.
The president has advocated any number of alternatives to the traditional...
BLITZER: All right.
ARMEY: ... internal combustion engine.
BLITZER: The president...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: But...
BLITZER: The president is meeting -- I want to switch gears for a second.
CARVILLE: All right.
BLITZER: So, hold your fire.
The president is meeting right now in the White House with Republicans and Democrats, leaders of the...
CARVILLE: Right.
BLITZER: ... the Congress. They are talking about trying to find a way to break the impasse over immigration reform. We're about to get some videotape of the president's comments to these leaders who have gone over there to see if there's a way to bridge the differences between the Senate and the House of Representatives, which, as both of you know, is never necessarily all that easy.
Let's listen to what the president says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I want to thank the members of the United States Senate for joining on a very important discussion. And the discussion was how to get a comprehensive immigration bill out of the United States Senate.
I will report to the American people that there is a common desire to have a bill that enforces the border, a bill that has interior enforcement, in other words, a bill that will hold people to account for hiring somebody who is here illegally, but a bill that also recognizes we must have a temporary-worker program, a bill that does not grant automatic amnesty to people, but a bill that says, somebody who is working here on a legal basis has the right to get in line to become a citizen.
Now, I thank the members, both Republicans and Democrats for taking on this really hard assignment. It is important that we reform a system that is not working. It's important that we up uphold the values of the United States of America. It's important that we treat people with dignity.
And I strongly believe that we have a chance to get an immigration bill that is comprehensive in nature to my desk before the end of this year. And, again, I want to thank both the Republicans and Democrats for the spirit of hard work.
I particularly want to thank Senator inn Kennedy and Senator McCain for taking the lead on this important bill on the floor of the United States Senate.
And I assured the members that I look forward to working with them, as they try to get a bill out of the Senate by Memorial Day and into conference.
Thank you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: That was videotape -- the president speaking only moments ago to a bipartisan group of leaders from the Congress. You saw Harry Reid, the Democratic leader, sitting on one side, Bill Frist, the Republican majority leader, on the other side.
And I want to bring back James Carville and Dick Armey.
Afterwards, Harry Reid, the Democratic leader, walked out. We got a live picture from the so-called driveway, the stakeout position at the White House. And he said, the president is doing a good job on this issue, deserves a pat in the back. He likes what he heard from the president.
And you saw the president single out Kennedy and McCain for their piece of legislation.
As you know, that's going to anger a lot of conservatives on the -- in the House...
ARMEY: Right.
BLITZER: ... especially who hate the Kennedy-McCain legislation.
ARMEY: Well, there are a lot of conservatives in the House that love it, too. And I will name, for example, Jeff Flake from Arizona as a good example, who sponsored it in the House.
BLITZER: Tom Tancredo hates it.
ARMEY: But -- well, Tom Tancredo, I think, is not realistic in this.
The fact is, one, you have 12 to 15 million decent, hardworking people that are and have been here for some time, beyond our ability to detect and find them. We're not going to find them, unless we can find some kind of a system by which we can induce them to self- identify, in the interests of being able to, as it were, reprocess them into legal status in a legitimate guest-worker program.
As you do these things, and you understand the realities and deal with them in a humane and sensible fashion, you will ease the burden on patrolling the borders. But the idea that you could somehow slam shut the border, without attending to the fact that there's a real demand for folks to come work here, and a real supply of people willing to work here, who will find a way to meet each other...
BLITZER: All right.
We are almost out of time. We are going to go to a commercial.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: But I want -- James, I want you to respond. It looks like -- you see the president meeting with that -- Democrats and Republicans...
CARVILLE: Right.
BLITZER: ... on the sensitive issue of immigration.
CARVILLE: Right.
BLITZER: If he really wants to push this through, he has got a good opening right now to score a victory.
CARVILLE: Well, the best thing he would do is, he's got -- look, he has got Senator Kennedy, I'm sure Senator Clinton and a lot of the Democrats that are for some version of the Specter bill.
What he needs is Congressman Tancredo, Congressman Sensenbrenner, all right, Congressman Hayworth. The problem is not in the Senate. And he's just doing this for a photo-op. I think, like Senator Kennedy, is with the president on this. He has got to get the people in his own party in the House.
And this is a nice thing, and they kind of pat each other on the back.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And they look bipartisan.
But the problem is not in the Senate.
ARMEY: No...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And the problem is not with the Democrats.
BLITZER: All right.
CARVILLE: The problem is with the Republicans.
BLITZER: We will see what the speaker of the House and the majority leader, Speaker Hastert and John Boehner, what they come up with as well.
We have to leave it right there, but want to thank both of you for coming in to THE SITUATION ROOM, as usual.
Up next, it's a must-pass bill to pay for the war in Iraq and Katrina cleanup. But a bruising fight could break out over its massive cost -- that story in today's "Political Radar."
Plus, what would happen if the Democrats won back either the House or Senate, or both, in the November election? Would it be payback time on Capitol Hill? Would there be subpoenas?
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In New York today, mayors of more than a dozen cities are banding together for what is being touted as the first national summit on illegal guns. We will hear from the host of the event, the mayor of New York, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, in just a moment.
First, let's go to New York.
Our correspondent Mary Snow has the details -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the summit took place here in New York, was hosted by the mayors of New York City and Boston. They led the call to work together to crack down on gun crimes and unlicensed guns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Fifteen mayors from diverse cities, ranging from Dallas, Texas, to Washington, D.C. to Jackson, Mississippi, banded together in New York, taking aim at illegally obtained guns and the federal government.
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: If the leadership won't come from Congress or come from the White House, then, it has to come from us.
SNOW: New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg has made it his second- term priority to ensure that guns don't make it into the wrong hands.
BLOOMBERG: I will never give in to those who accept the spread of illegal guns and their deadly consequences -- never.
SNOW: That vow came shortly after two New York City police officers were killed within weeks of each other late in 2005, killed by shots fired from illegally obtained guns.
He recently addressed Congress on the issue. Frustrated with what he calls a vacuum in leadership, he has turned to other mayors, an effort the National Rifle Association calls -- quote -- "a publicity stunt."
Others in the gun industry complained about not being included in the summit.
LAWRENCE KEANE, VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL, NATIONAL SHOOTING SPORTS FOUNDATION: All we have heard out of the mayor's office recently is overheated rhetoric and threats to sue law-abiding dealers, based simply on the fact that some firearms they sold were later misused in crimes.
SNOW: But officials in New York say, despite a drop in crime, they are seeing young people illegally obtain weapons on the black market, such as AK-47s and .9-millimeter handguns. And the police department blames lax laws in several states that allow dealers to buy guns and resell them on city streets.
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: It is relatively easy to buy a gun in most of the United States. And we in New York see ourselves as paying the price for that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: At today's summit, the mayors signed a pledge to work together. They say they hope to have all U.S. mayors taking part in their effort by the end of the year -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Mary.
And, coming up, we're going to be speaking with the mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also, this note: Senator Ted Kennedy speaks out about gas prices and a lot more. My one-on-one conversation with the senior Democrat from Massachusetts, that's coming up in the next hour.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now let's hear from the host of the mayors summit on illegal guns being held today in New York.
And joining us now is the mayor of New York City, Michael Bloomberg.
Mr. Mayor, welcome to THE SITUATION ROOM.
BLOOMBERG: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: You're a Republican, but I got to tell you, what you're doing today sounds very much like what a lot of Democrats would like to see happen, as far as illegal guns in this country are concerned. And I will throw out some statistics for you.
In 2004, guns-rights -- gun-rights organizations gave more than $1,100,000 to Republicans, 88 percent of the total. They only gave $160,000 to Democrats, 12 point of the total.
Are you crossing the partisan line when it comes to this issue?
BLOOMBERG: Wolf, there is nothing partisan about this.
This is an issue of guns on the streets of the cities of the United States, whether it's north, south, east, west, whether they have Democratic or Republican mayors, no matter what the ethnicity or the economic makeup of the city.
The truth of the matter is, the Second Amendment gives you the right to bear arms. And I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with people that want to own weapons and hunt. But guns don't belong on the streets of our cities.
There are 30,000 people killed in the United States every year. That's 80 people a day. And they are killed whether they are Republican or Democrat. And that's what Congress has got to learn. That's what the White House has got to learn. There is nothing partisan about it.
This is a question. It's the second biggest public health problem this country has. You know, if you take a look at crime in this country, we're just an average country, in terms of rape and robbery and every other kind of crime, with one exception. And that's murder.
And you look at our country, compared to other countries around the world, and there's this blip that stands out like such a sore thumb. Every day, Americans are being killed, regardless of what party they belong to.
BLITZER: Here is what -- the National Rifle Association issued a statement today regarding your gun summit.
They said: "It's nothing but a publicity stunt. If the mayors of these cities were serious about combating crime, they would walk down the hallway to the offices of prosecuting attorneys and hand them a check to help them prosecute gun crimes in their respective cities, instead of using taxpayer money to pay for such a junket."
BLOOMBERG: Yes, well, let me tell you something.
Every one of the mayors that was there today -- and I think almost every mayor in this country -- is doing exactly that. They are working as hard as they can to stop crime and to end murder on the streets of our cities, big cities and small cities.
But we can only do so much. If you put guns in the hands of criminals knowingly, if you deliberately target criminals and say, I'm going to sell them a gun, there's only one reason why criminals want guns. It's to kill people. And the NRA has got to understand, this is not against the Second Amendment. It's not against the right to have a gun. It's against the right to carry a concealed weapon on the streets of our city.
It's against gun dealers, the handful, the 1 percent of all gun dealers who sell 60 percent of the guns that criminals use to kill people. And it has to be a national issue, because people take it across state lines. In New York City, we have brought crime down dramatically, so much so, nobody could -- ever thought it was possible.
But we still have too many kids that have guns. We still have too many criminals that have guns. And we're doing everything we can. But we need help at the source. And we should be using litigation. We should be using legislation. We should be using the bully pulpit.
And Congress is the one that really, in the end, has the ultimate responsibility. When they vote to keep law enforcement agencies from sharing information, they are the ones that are responsible for people getting killed. Think about it.
BLITZER: All right.
BLOOMBERG: Here we are, five minutes -- five years, Wolf, after 9/11, when the lesson there was, we should have shared intelligence, and Congress wants to pass a bill that prevents law enforcement agencies from sharing who sells guns to criminals.
BLITZER: The -- I want to get to a couple other issues while I have you, Mr. Mayor, especially the sensitive issue of the president's meeting with Democrats and Republicans today on the issue of immigration.
You recently made it clear to our John King in an interview that there's no way the United States can get rid of all these illegal immigrants, 10, 12 million, how many there are.
BLOOMBERG: Nor do we want to.
BLITZER: Well, that provoked a response, that and some of the other comments you made, from our own Lou Dobbs.
I want you to listen what he said directly about you. And I want to get your response. Listen to what Lou Dobbs said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Mayor Bloomberg may live in New York City and have to wrestle with consequences within that city. It's a great city, with great people. But this is a broad nation. And 280 million middle-class Americans, working men and women, in this country, Bloomberg is telling them to go to hell, not me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOMBERG: Well...
BLITZER: Those are pretty strong words.
BLOOMBERG: Well, I have known Lou for a long time. And, sometimes, his rhetoric sort of gets ahead of what he's thinking, I think, the only explanation.
Look, we have 12 million undocumented in this country that perform jobs nobody else will. And, even if you want to get rid of them, you cannot. That's more people than we have in the state of Illinois. So, first and foremost, let's get serious.
They are here, and they are going to stay here. And there is no ways that we can remove them. We should have had control of our borders before. We didn't. This is the penalty that we're paying for misguided legislation, the Simpson-Rodino bill in 1986, 20 years ago.
The second thing is, no country exists today without control of its borders. We have to get control of our borders, in a meaningful way, where we really do decide who comes into this country or not.
Number three, we have got to stop the charade that companies can't hire illegal aliens, but Congress passed laws that prevent them from really checking to see whether the documents they have are legit or not. This is a sad joke, the way that Congress passed that legislation.
And, fourth, we need a steady stream of immigrants. We need agricultural workers, which is what people are talking about coming across the Mexican borders. We need scientists. We need doctors. We need the people that -- who are going to build the future of this country. The only reason America is the greatest country in the world is because, from the pilgrims on through today, we have been the place where the best...
BLITZER: Well... BLOOMBERG: ... and the brightest come to work and to add to our culture.
BLITZER: ... in defense of Lou, he supports immigration, he says, legal immigration. It's illegal immigration that he opposes.
BLOOMBERG: I couldn't agree more. So, let's pass some laws, that the country decides who comes here and how many. I think that's appropriate. Get control of the border, so that we can enforce it.
But one thing I guess Lou and I probably would disagree on, he has this misguided idea that you can take 12 million people who are here today and get them to leave. They have children here who are American citizens. They have mortgages. Banks love to loan to people who want to be here in and are hardworking. They make -- they fill jobs that nobody else is willing to take.
We just have them here.
BLITZER: All right.
BLOOMBERG: And we're going to keep them.
BLITZER: One final question, because we're out of time: In May of '03, your approval was at 32 percent. It's now, three years later, at 73 percent. The president's...
BLOOMBERG: My mother is pleased.
BLITZER: The president's job approval in our CNN poll is at 32 percent right now.
I guess the bottom-line question -- there has been a lot of speculation in the New York press about you seeking higher office down the road. I will put it bluntly. Do you want to be president of the United States?
BLOOMBERG: Wolf, I will put it bluntly. I have the best job in government. I have the best job right now I have ever had in my life.
I plan to stay in this job and fill out the four-year term that I was elected to, and do everything I can to help the people of New York, who hired me to do the job. And if I can be supportive for the president, regardless of who he is or which party, or she is, if I can be supportive of Congress, regardless of which party, anything to make the country that gave my grandparents the opportunity to come here, I'm going to do exactly that.
But the answer to your question is, I am mayor of the city of New York through the year 2009.
BLITZER: I guess you're not going to run for president in 2008.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Mr. Mayor, thanks very much for joining us. BLOOMBERG: You're welcome.
BLITZER: And, coming up, Senator Edward Kennedy sounding off on high gas prices -- and does he think Democrats might pursue impeachment if their party takes control of Congress?
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: On our "Political Radar," some conservatives on Capitol Hill are hoping President Bush will threaten to veto a spending bill now on the Senate floor.
And we're told by a senior administration -- the president is in fact planning to issue a veto threat, likely, perhaps as early as this afternoon. The $106 billion bill has ballooned almost $15 billion higher than Mr. Bush's spending request. The measure includes money to pay for the rising cost of the U.S. mission in Iraq and for additional hurricane aid for the storm-ravaged Gulf Coast. We will see what the president does.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, where Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney goes, controversy almost always seems to follow. Would you reelect her? That's Jack Cafferty's question. He will be back with your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Jack is back with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf.
Georgia's Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney is going to run for reelection, but she is going to have competition. A fellow named Hank Johnson, a lawyer and two-term member of the DeKalb County Commission, is going to run against McKinney in July's Democratic primary.
The question is, if you lived in the congresswoman's district, would you vote to reelect her?
Ed wrote this: "I'm an African-American. I'm a resident of McKinney's district. And there's no way in hell she will get my vote. Not only is she a fool. She is an embarrassment to her constituents. I am tired of the race-baiting and hysterics that seem to follow her everywhere she goes."
I -- Ed doesn't care for her, I guess.
James in Atlanta writes: "Jack, the north end of McKinney's district is mostly white, but she goes out of her way to avoid us. In effect, we have no representation in Congress. I'm a Democrat, but, if she's the candidate, I don't plan to vote for her."
Carla in Birmingham, Alabama: "Absolutely not. The last thing we need in Congress is a completely self-obsessed woman who can't control her temper" -- as opposed to the completely self-obsessed men who can't control their temper.
Peter in Atlanta: "I do live in Congresswoman McKinney's district, and I'm hoping there will be another Democratic candidate for her seat in the next election. If she's the candidate, I will vote for her simply to help the Democratic Party take back control of the House of Representatives."
And Paul in Park City, Utah, writes: "Probably yes, but I would keep my distance from her at the political rally" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much.
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