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The Situation Room
States Vs. SUVs; Dick Cheney's Clout; Plane With at Least One Blown Tire Prepares to Land
Aired May 02, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, it's 7:00 p.m. in Washington. As gas prices soar, the Bush administration faces a lawsuit from states and cities demanding a get-tough policy on gas-guzzlers. Should SUVs be singled out? Would tougher mileage rules really make a difference?
They move from cemetery to cemetery, where their noisy protests for funerals of fallen troops are seen as shocking developments, but now followers of a controversial church get a powerful ally.
And it may soon be legal to hold small amounts of heroin, cocaine and marijuana in Mexico. What will that do to America's war on drugs?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, gas prices are soaring and tempers are flaring from Capitol Hill to state capitols across the country. The top House Republican says his party's plan to give tax payers a $100 rebate is insulting. Republican sources tell CNN the plan is dead. That has Democrats smiling and pouncing.
In the midst of it all, the House speaker, Dennis Hastert, met with the new chairman of ExxonMobil. The oil industry boss told CNN politics isn't the solution, conservation is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REX TILLERSON, CEO, EXXONMOBIL: There is not anything that can be done that's going to change this situation overnight. It's all about supply and demand fundamentals. And the only thing that can be done is people need to try to use the energy efficiently. Work on the demand side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Outside of Washington tonight, states are banding together to try to take on one of the nation's most popular gas- guzzlers. That would be SUVs.
CNN's Mary Snow is covering the high-stakes showdown. She's joining us from New York -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, California's leading a group of states that went to court today to push for better mileage for SUVs and large vehicles, saying the government's standards are not good enough.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice over): They are the bane of environmentalists. Now sports utility vehicles, or SUVs, are the main target of a legal showdown. Representatives for 10 states and two cities are suing the Bush administration, accusing it of not being tough enough on automakers when it comes to mileage standards for SUVs.
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, CONNECTICUT ATTORNEY GENERAL: These regulations are really a gift to the automobile industry. They're a sham.
SNOW: In Charlotte, North Carolina, today, Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta touted the new standards that are the subject of the suit.
NORMAN MINETA, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: In March, I announced the president's tough new mileage requirements for light trucks, minivans and SUV, and that was the second in just three years.
SNOW: Last year, the president announced new fuel economy standards.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When these reasonable increases in mileage standards take full effect, they will save American drivers about 340,000 barrels of gasoline a day.
SNOW: Some of those new standards, for example, for the largest SUVs, by the year 2011, they must, on average, get 24 miles to the gallon. Critics say it's not good enough and blame the administration for not pushing automakers to use better technology.
BRENDAN BELL, SIERRA CLUB: The technology exists to make all vehicles, from cars, to SUVs, to light trucks, average 40 miles per gallon within 10 years. And taking that step would save the average driver about $500 per year at the gas pump and it would save four million barrels of oil per day.
SNOW: Automakers say hundreds of factors, including safety, are taken into account when determining mileage standards.
A spokesman for General Motors took aim at the claims that the auto industry persuaded the Bush administration to go easy on automakers, saying, "The idea that these were a gift is clearly coming from people who don't have a full grasp of the complexity of the dynamics involved here."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now, as it stands today, some of the least efficient SUVs can run about 12 miles to the gallon. Some of the most efficient, 20- plus miles to the gallon. Now, automakers just reported today that sales of SUVs and trucks are slipping as drivers look for more fuel- efficient vehicles -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary, thank you for that.
Tonight there is new evidence that sky-high gas prices are having a very serious drag on the Bush White House. The CBS News poll shows the president's approval rating is down to 33 percent. That's a record low for that survey. And just 17 percent say they approve of the way Mr. Bush is handling the soaring gas prices.
The Bush-Cheney team has been trying to regroup and recover from a host of political problems. But is the vice president's clout what it used to be?
Our chief national correspondent, John King, has been looking at this story and he's joining us now live -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, think back to the very beginning of this administration, all those late-night jokes that maybe it was the vice president pulling the strings, calling the shots behind the scenes at the White House. You don't hear those jokes from Leno or Letterman anymore. But listen closely, you might hear something close from the vice president himself.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice over): In Philadelphia Monday, reading Henry Kissinger and reminiscing...
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As I mentioned, he and I go back a long ways to the Ford administration, when he was secretary of state and I was White House chief of staff. The old days, when I had real power.
KING: Anyone who thinks the vice president doesn't have real power isn't paying attention. New budget director Rob Portman and new press secretary Tony Snow are both long-time Cheney favorites. Yet there also are West Wing rumblings.
Some Bush aides and advisers say an always-independent Cheney operation is more detached now. Something they trace back to friction over how he handled his hunting accident back in February.
"He and the president are fine," one senior official put it. "It's just a lot of disconnect and disengagement at the staff level."
A White House adviser close to Mr. Cheney described his current staff as "second team," but also said, "He has lowered his profile because he feels it serves the president."
It's not as if the vice president has disappeared. He's off to Europe for a six-day diplomatic mission. Military bases are a Cheney favorite.
CHENEY: It's good to be back in Texas.
KING: It is Texas (INAUDIBLE) one of 23 midterm election fund- raisers just this year.
Adviser Mary Matalin chalks up any West Wing grumbling to jitters stemming from the White House staff shake-up.
MARY MATALIN, CHENEY ADVISER: The relationship that matters most would be the one between the president and the vice president. And whatever other staff issues, mattress mice gaggle that's going on, needs to reflect more about what that relationship is.
KING: But many Republicans see a lower Washington profile and a political calculation. For all the president's struggles, many see Mr. Cheney as a more flawed spokesman on the major issues of the day: Iraq and gas prices.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: In our latest CNN polling, the vice president's approval rating just 35 percent. That's down 16 points from polling conducted just after the start of the second Bush term a little more than a year ago, Wolf.
In the upcoming issue of "Vanity Fair," the vice president gives an extensive interview. He says perhaps if he worked at it harder, he could improve his image with the American people. But he says that's not his job. His job is to help the president, whatever it takes -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, John. Thanks for that report.
And thanks to John, Mary Snow, part of the best political team on television.
CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
And we have some news that's coming -- coming into CNN right now. These are live pictures you are seeing from Houston airport, where crews are standing by for an emergency landing.
Authorities believe a Continental Express jet blew a tire on takeoff. It's been circling the airport to burn off fuel before it lands. Forty-five passengers and three crew members are on board Flight 3161 that was heading for Minneapolis.
Former U.S. Airways pilot Jon Regas is on the phone with us. He is watching this story unfold, together with all of us.
These are live pictures we are seeing from Houston. Presumably, very soon, we are going to see some live pictures of this plane, Continental Express Flight 3161, coming in -- attempting a landing.
Jon, give us a little sense of what we can expect.
JON REGAS, FMR. U.S. AIRWAYS PILOT: This is a very interesting situation. The information that I've been able to determine so far is that perhaps one or two of the tires on the left main landing gear blew on takeoff. This will cause the pilot to have some difficulty maintaining directional control as the aircraft touches down on the runway.
Some of the procedures he'll be using to maintain directional control will be more aggressive use of nose wheel steering, perhaps asymmetric reverse thrust, using more reverse thrust with the right hand engine, and additional braking on the right hand landing gear.
The conditions are quite good at the Houston airport. And the wind is from the south at 12 knots. Visibility 10 miles. A few clouds at 4,500 feet above the surface. And the temperature is pretty hot, 29 degrees Celsius.
BLITZER: You know, a little while ago, about an hour and a half or so ago, we did see the plane attempt a landing. I want to roll some videotape of when this -- this Continental Express flight attempted to land.
Take a look at this, Jon. And explain to our viewers. You know, you see those tires. They seem to be OK, at least the pictures there. But as this plane gets closer to the ground, it's going to start going back up, I presume, because they didn't want to attempt an emergency landing with a plane that's full of gas.
REGAS: Those are amazing photos. And if you look on the right hand side, the landing gear is intact. On the left hand side, the wheels look much smaller, which means the rubber tires have been completely obliterated, it seems.
Reducing the fuel would be the right thing to do. It will enable a slightly slower touchdown speed. And this will aid the pilot. It also gives a chance for the good crash, fire rescue teams at Houston airport a chance to better situate themselves.
BLITZER: And we're getting these live pictures courtesy of our affiliate KTRK. If we could roll that tape one more time of this Continental Express plane as it attempted to go down about an hour, hour and 15 minutes or so ago, we can focus in on the landing gear on those tires.
And you're absolutely right, they are clearly a lot smaller in the back there, in the middle of your screen, than they are in the front.
REGAS: Yes. And there's a very good chance there will be quite a bit of sparking as the metal wheels roll on the ground, the runway. And the airplane may want to pull to the left, and the pilot may aggressively have to use all the controls to maintain the runway's center line.
One of the things we have to be very careful here is the aggressive use of braking on the right hand side may -- and I just say may -- cause tire failure on that side as well. So, things will have to go very well, and the pilots will be working very difficult conditions to keep the airplane right on the center of the runway.
Now, they have a very good, long runway there. And I anticipate that this will be something interesting to watch, but without a great deal of danger.
BLITZER: Let's hope these pilots, the two pilots on board, do exactly as the textbooks tell us.
I just want to welcome our CNN International viewers who are watching us here in THE SITUATION ROOM as well. And I just want to update our viewers as we take a look at these live pictures.
A Continental Express jet with 48 people on board has been circling Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport for at least the last hour and a half or so. At least one of the tires has been blown, apparently on takeoff. They are trying to burn more fuel before this plane comes in for a landing to touch down.
All this according to a Continental Airlines spokeswoman.
Forty-five passengers, three crew members, a pilot, a co-pilot, one flight attendant on board this Flight 3161. It was heading toward Minneapolis, but right now it's heading back to George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston. And we are going to presumably, courtesy of our affiliate, KTRK, get a live picture of this plane coming in momentarily.
Ali Velshi is watching this as well.
Ali, you know something about this aircraft.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's the ERJ 145 XR. It's made by Embraer Air of Brazil. It has got a range of about 2,000 nautical miles. And Continental Express jet really like these planes because it gives them a great deal of flexibility.
This plane, the XR stands for extra long range. It seats about 50 people. It competes with the CRJ planes, which you've also probably been on, Wolf.
This is a very, very popular plane. It's also a very new plane.
Just trying to get the exact service date of this plane, but it looks like it was at no earlier than the end of 2002 or beginning of 2003 that this plane was taken over by Continental Express at the time. So that's what we are looking at right now. This is a new plane that you are looking at coming in.
BLITZER: It looks like two of the tires. It looks, at least, like two of the tires. It has six were blown off on takeoff.
VELSHI: That's right.
BLITZER: Jacki Schechner is monitoring this situation online.
What are you picking up, Jacki? JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, well this is the plane that Ali's talking about from the company's Web site. You can see right there.
But more interesting, online, we want to take you to a Web site called Flight Aware that uses FAA data to track commercial and private flights. You can see the flight pattern.
This is the plane right here. Now, you can see how it's flying around again right here. Look at the squiggly patterns. You can see how much it's been doing.
Again, it's flightaware.com, online, based in Houston. And they are tracking this flight in real time -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jacki.
I want to bring back Jon Regas, the former U.S. Airways pilot who is helping us watch this emergency landing at Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport.
If you are a passenger -- and there are 45 passengers on this plane that was heading toward Minneapolis from Houston -- the pilots presumably are explaining what's going on. How nervous, though, should they be? I assume if I were on that plane, Jon, I'd be pretty nervous.
REGAS: I would want them not to be too nervous. This is an important situation. It's non-routine. But it is very much within the realm of control.
I also want to point out something very interesting that your viewers might find interesting. As the airplane rolls for takeoff, if the tires blow after a certain speed, it is safer for the airplane to take off, burn the fuel down, and come back and make a landing rather than to immediately try to stop on the runway.
The -- you lose a good portion of the wheel braking effect without the tires. So if you have passed a certain speed, let's say about 80 knots during the takeoff roll, and the pilots perceive that the tires have blown, it's actually bettor to take off, burn the fuel down just as they are doing, and then return for a landing. If the tires blow prior to some pre-determined speed, generally speaking somewhere around 80 knots, then the attempt should be made to stop on the runway right away.
BLITZER: I remember years ago, Jon, I was on a plane that had to make an emergency landing here in Washington at Dulles Airport. It was a similar kind of situation, the landing gear.
They had a problem. They weren't sure how serious it was. But they did put some foam on the runways.
Do you assume that they are doing that? And if they are, explain to our viewers what that would do.
REGAS: Foaming of the runway has largely been discontinued in almost all circumstances. There are a couple reasons for this.
One, in order to generate the foam, it has to be timed just about perfectly. Because after the foam is generated on the runway, if 15 minutes goes past, the foam loses its effectiveness.
They've also determined that it only reduces the amount of friction on the runway by some three percent, which is almost insignificant. And perhaps most importantly, all the fire-fighting mechanisms and machines, if they expend all the foam, they have to wait a while to regenerate foam to fight a post-crash fire.
So, it is now generally regarded that it is better to save the foam and let the airplane land on just the runway. And then fight the fire afterwards.
BLITZER: And this is a small jet. When this incident happened, the plane I was on, it was, I'm guessing, 20 years or so ago. They did tell us to get into a certain position to brace for an emergency landing, get our knees up.
Walk us through what you assume the pilots are now telling those 45 passengers aboard this Continental Express jet, how they should brace for this landing which we are told should happen in the next few moments.
REGAS: I think it's very important to acknowledge that it's not just the pilots, but the flight attendant that is on board will actually be demonstrating to the passengers the proper brace position. And depending upon the seats and where you are sitting in the aircraft, one may just fold their arms on the seat back ahead of them. If there is no seat back ahead of them, you might grab beneath your knees and hold your head down in that position.
They will be warned in advance by the pilots. And perhaps there will be a special signal to the flight attendant to actually command brace.
It's a crew up there. And while the pilots are very concerned about flying, they have communicated a plan not only to the flight attendant, but to all the passengers. And I'm sure they've said something to reassure them.
I think this will be something to talk about, but I am highly confident that the pilots will pull this off.
BLITZER: Jon, we're getting this information from The Associated Press that a similar incident, the same kind of plane flying for American Eagles Airlines veered off the runway last Tuesday at O'Hare International Airport in Chicago. And authorities believe a blown tire may have been the cause. There were no injuries reported in that incident.
I don't know if you were familiar with that incident. But a blown tire and two tires -- two of those tires looked to be stripped bare right now in the front. But veering off the runway, that could be a significant development. Fortunately, in Chicago last week there were no injuries.
REGAS: That's very significant. I hadn't heard about that. One of the things the pilot may elect to do is put the aircraft on the ground on the...
BLITZER: I want to interrupt you for a second. That picture we are seeing in the left-hand corner of the screen, that's when the plane earlier, about an hour or so ago, came down and was going to land. At least we got the impression it was going to land. But then it took -- it continued back up.
I assume that was because they wanted to let authorities on the ground get a closer look at the landing gear to see what it was like because they still had a full tank of gas.
REGAS: Yes, I think that's exactly right, Wolf. And I understand that they may have done two fly-bys to allow air traffic control personnel in the control tower to be able to look at the aircraft with binoculars and provide a description to the pilots.
Now, the pilot may elect to land the aircraft farther to the right of the center line of the runway in anticipation that the airplane will veer to the left. This will give him more maneuvering room to stay on the runway.
BLITZER: And Jon, you can see now these live pictures coming in courtesy of our affiliate KTRK in Houston. This is the plane. This is Continental Express coming in for a landing at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston.
And those tires in the front, the landing gear, that's the problem right underneath the nose. Is that right?
REGAS: No. It's the left -- under the left wing. The nose appears to be intact. It's only under the left wing.
And as we watch the aircraft approach the runway, we can see that the flaps are down for landing. That appears to be a good stabilized approach. And as I mentioned, the pilot may elect to land a little bit to the right. It's vital that the airplane remain on the runway because it's a constant friction surface.
BLITZER: Here it comes. Take a look.
Let's just watch this for a second.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's coming in fairly slowly. It's going to be hitting the ground here in just a couple of seconds.
Almost on touchdown. And it's holding. Not really the shower of sparks we expected, either. So some very good news now.
The pilot very happy, along with the passengers on this aircraft. Down safely after some very dramatic and intense moments.
BLITZER: Well, Jon Regas, just as you thought, this would be a picture-perfect landing. And frankly, if we didn't know those left tires underneath the left wing were deflated and had blown out, it would have looked almost completely normal. I didn't see anything different from that landing as opposed to any other excellent landing.
REGAS: There is just a minor amount of smoke. Just a few sparks from the left main landing gear.
You can see that the pilot elected not to use thrust reverse. The thrust reversers did not deploy. Probably intentionally.
And the airplane maintained good center line. They did a fine job.
Here comes the crash fire rescue team. And they are not spraying foam or anything just yet. It looks like a very well-handled situation.
BLITZER: It looks indeed like they are going to be a bunch of happy people, 45 passengers, three crew members, two pilots, one flight attendant. They're on board this Continental Express plane that was going to Minneapolis, but now it's still in Houston. And fortunately, everything worked out just fine.
Jon, thanks very much for that.
Thanks to Ali and Jacki as well.
We'll continue to watch this story. But there's other important news we are watching here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Coming up, funeral protest outrage, the war over free speech. The ACLU is now defending an extremist group's right to demonstrate at the burials of fallen American soldiers. We have the story.
Also, small amounts of cocaine and heroin amount to become legal in Mexico. Will Americans run to the boarder to get high? We are taking you to Tijuana. Our Chris Lawrence is there.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check in with Jack Cafferty. He's joining us from New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: The next time your community wants to raise property taxes to pay for your public schools, think about this. A lot of them aren't working very well.
Three years after the start of the war in Iraq, 63 percent of Americans between the age of 18 and 24 can't find it on a map. A study by "National Geographic" found young Americans are sorely lacking when it comes to geography.
Sixty-three percent can't find Iraq or Saudi Arabia, 75 percent can't locate Iran or Israel. And 88 percent don't know where Afghanistan is.
All right. Those are foreign countries.
What about here in the states? Well, it's not much better.
Thirty-three percent can't find Louisiana, despite the months of coverage of Hurricane Katrina. Forty-eight percent couldn't locate Mississippi, and 50 percent can't find New York on a map. Fifty-seven percent don't know where Ohio is.
However, maybe it doesn't matter. Twenty-one percent of those polled said it's not too important to know where countries in the news are located. And that's the question.
What does it mean when many young Americans can't find Iraq or Louisiana on a map? E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@cnn.com or go to cnn.com/caffertyfile.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks for that.
Who wouldn't be outraged right now? Get this, there are groups going to funerals of service members, American service members killed in Iraq, to cheer their deaths and to wave signs like "Thank god for 9/11." But get this, the group staging these acts is now finding support.
Let's bring in our Brian Todd. He's looking at this story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, with signs and slogans like the one you just mentioned, you would think this group would be isolated. But the Westborough Baptist Church does now have a powerful ally as it tests the bounds of free speech.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): They show up and shock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every dead soldier coming home is a punishment from the lord, your god.
TODD: At the funerals of service members killed in Iraq, these folks condemn the dead and their families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are a hell-bound minister of Satan.
TODD: Followers of the Kansas-based Westborough Baptist Church have been crisscrossing the U.S., protesting at more than 150 funerals of service members. They believe god is killing U.S. soldiers in Iraq to punish America for tolerating homosexuality.
They've caused such a disruption that more than two dozen states are either trying to pass laws restricting the movement of the protesters or have already passed them. There's a proposal in Congress for a federal law restricting their movement in national cemeteries. But the Westborough Baptist Church now has a powerful ally. The American Civil Liberties Union is filing suit to challenge Kentucky's new law.
LILI LUTGENS, ACLU: What is important here is that the First Amendment protects the free speech rights of everyone, and that includes those whose message we dislike, that we find offensive.
TODD: The father of one U.S. soldier killed in Iraq whose funeral was picketed by the church, as well as veterans group leaders, say their friends and loved ones died to protect freedom of speech. But this lawsuit...
JOE DAVIS, VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS: It infuriates us. When you have some people that are out there just spreading this hate and prejudice and hiding behind the First Amendment to do so, it's something that's just not right. It doesn't sit well with, I would pretty much bet, most of Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Like it or not, Westborough won't stop. One church leader told me they are heading to Michigan this weekend to protest at two soldiers' funerals. Michigan lawmakers are trying to pass one of those restriction laws, but it hasn't passed yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thanks for that report.
And Iraq tops the short list of global hotspots and flash points creating anxiety for the Bush administration. The former secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, is a vocal critic of the president's Iraq policy and his overall world view. Her new book looks at the connection between faith and foreign policy. It's titled "The Mighty and the Almighty."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Madame Secretary, thanks very much.
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Great to be with you, Wolf. Thank you.
BLITZER: This is what the president said yesterday on Iraq. Listen to the optimism conveyed in his words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: This nation of ours and our coalition partners are going to work with a new leadership to strengthen our mutual efforts to achieve success, a victory in this war on terror. This is a -- we believe this is a turning point for the Iraqi citizens. And it's a new chapter in our partnership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And this in contrast is what you write in your book, "The Mighty & The Almighty." "Although we must fervently hope otherwise, the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath may eventually rank among the worst foreign policy disasters in U.S. history." What if the president is right, that this is a turning point, and a stable democracy emerges and U.S. troops can eventually come home?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I would love to be proven wrong, Wolf. I really -- nobody wants us to fail, but the president has indicated turning points before. I don't think his body language indicated a lot of optimism.
I am slightly more optimistic this week than I was 10 days ago with the naming of the new Iraqi prime minister, but you have reported more deaths again, and there's not an indication that the insurgency is under control.
I hope very much that there is a change, but the effect of Iraq and the mistaken implementation of the policy, I think, is going to plague the United States for a long time. And it concerns me incredibly about the overall effects of a very bad Iraqi policy.
BLITZER: What do you make of Senator Biden's recommendation to divide Iraq up into three separate autonomous areas, a Sunni, a Kurdish, and a Shia zone?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that already the Constitution recognizes that there are differences among the areas in Iraq, and recognizes a certain amount of autonomy with continued control by the central government, a foreign and defense policy.
I think the different areas need to be recognized. I would be very concerned in the long run about a split-up of Iraq totally, because I think that would have very deep repercussions in an area that is already highly destabilized. And one of the results, I think, of the Iraq war is the increasing influence of Iran. And if Iraq were to split up, that would increase Iran's influence.
But I think that Senator Biden has presented a very interesting idea that is worth exploring with a kind of a system that is more federal with a central government that continues to have a variety of different authorities.
BLITZER: In your book, you're critical of this passage from the president's second inaugural address. And I'm going to play it for our viewers. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: It's the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of Democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now what's -- explain what is wrong with that ultimate goal? ALBRIGHT: Well, I think there's nothing wrong with having a goal of ending tyranny in the world, but it is basically not something that can just be accomplished with rhetoric.
And I have been critical of speeches made by the president in which he says that the United States will deliver freedom to the inhabitants of the world, in fact, says that it is our destiny to do so, which is very much the same words that the president -- that God told Moses to do.
So I think it is overreaching, and I'm very concerned about having rhetorical statements like that which put the United States in a position of acting as if we're on a mission from God.
BLITZER: Today the Iranians said that if the U.S. were to launch any military strike against Iran and its nuclear facilities, the first thing they would do would be to attack Israel. Shimon Peres, elder statesman of Israel, immediately said Israel can defend itself.
What do you make of this rhetorical flourish coming from Tehran now, and what would you do differently than the current administration is doing?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I am very troubled by what is going on with Iran, and the statements that have been made and obviously some of the things that President Ahmadinejad has said are perfectly ridiculous. What is important is for the international community to act together and take action in the Security Council.
But I have also come to the realization that it is very important for us to have direct talks with Iran. They are not a reward. It is not negotiating. It is delivering very tough messages to Iran, and I think that we are in a very bad situation with Iran.
And one of the points that I make in terms of the failure of our Iraq policy, as I've said, is the increasing influence of Iran in the region, something that is an unintended consequence of a mistaken Bush policy.
BLITZER: Would you have direct talks with the Iranians, U.S.- Iranian talks, on the nuclear issue?
ALBRIGHT: I would. You know, I know that the president has OK'd that there be talks on Iraq, and I personally think that those talks should be widened. It doesn't mean that the Iranians will talk, but I do think it is worth trying here because we are in a very bad situation.
I agree, as a former policy maker, that you never take a military option off the table, but I think we have to pursue all diplomatic ends because we are in a very serious situation and the combination of what is happening at the United Nations with the idea that we also look at direct talks, not negotiation. Direct talks is something that I think worth trying.
BLITZER: Here's a quote from the book, on religion and foreign policy. "The difficulty, of course, is not that the Bush administration has sought to exercise leadership on moral grounds, the problem is that its rhetoric has come close to justifying U.S. policy in explicitly religious terms and that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull." Explain that to our viewers.
ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that the problem is that the way the policy has been presented, if you disagree with the United States, you're picking a fight with God. Now, what happened is that after 9/11 I thought President Bush acted really well and unified the country and unified the world in terms of supporting us, because it was us versus people that believed that you could kill people by flying airplanes into buildings.
When the president -- because it looked as though he thought that God -- we were doing God's work -- said, in fact, that people had to approve of our policies in Iraq or what we were doing in Abu Ghraib or extending the limits of American power, then he narrowed the number of people that would support us. And I don't think we want to be in a position where we are telling people that arguing with us is arguing with God.
BLITZER: The book is entitled, "The Mighty and the Almighty, Reflection on America, God and World Affairs." An introduction by her former boss, President Bill Clinton.
Madeleine Albright, thanks for joining us. Congratulations on the new book.
ALBRIGHT: Thank you very much, Wolf.
BLITZER: We want to button up that story we were reporting a little while ago. That Continental Express plane with 48 people on board landed safely at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston. These are live pictures you are seeing. The passengers, 45 of them, three crew members, they are getting off this plane now safe and sound. A very, very smooth landing. Two of those tires were blown out on take-off.
As we saw live here on CNN, all's well that ends well. This was Continental Express Flight 3161 that was supposed to go from Houston to Minneapolis. It's still on the ground right now in Houston.
Still to come tonight in THE SITUATION ROOM, the president's message on Iraq. Does he have trouble selling it? Or are Americans just simply not buying it? Our Jeff Greenfield weighs in.
Also, getting high on the border. Mexico legalized possession of small quantities of cocaine and heroine. We'll take you to Tijuana for the story. Chris Lawrence is there. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on the president and the his problems. How low can he go? Two more polls are out today, and both show less than one-third of Americans approve of the way the president is handling the situation in Iraq.
For more on the president's fall, let's turn to CNN's senior analyst Jeff Greenfield -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Wolf, there's been much comment about the three years since the president gave his "Mission Accomplished" speech aboard that aircraft carrier, but there's a striking political lesson that I think has been overlooked.
It's not that the president hasn't been taking his case to the public. Indeed, he has done that repeatedly. What's happened, apparently, is that the public has stopped buying the message.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD (voice-over): All through his second term, Mr. Bush has been using the bully pulpit of the presidency to argue his case for the war in Iraq...
BUSH: We will stay on the offense.
GREENFIELD: ... and for the broader war on terror. All the power of the White House has been brought to bear. The speeches have been carried live on cable news, have received major coverage in the press. And what has happened?
April 12, 2005, a speech to military families on terror. His job approval rating just before that speech is at 50 percent.
BUSH: Thanks for being on the front line.
GREENFIELD: June of 2005, a visit to the National Counterterrorism Center, a speech to the nation from Ft. Bragg. By month's end, his job approval is at 45 percent.
Last November, the president visits Annapolis...
BUSH: On September the 11, 2001...
GREENFIELD: ... then Elmendorf Air Force Base to talk about terror and the war in Iraq. By year's end, his job approval is at 41 percent.
BUSH: Their aim is to seize power in Iraq.
GREENFIELD: So far this year, he's given six speeches on terror and Iraq, not counting the State of the Union. What has happened? He began the year at 43 percent job approval. In the latest CNN poll, he's at 32 percent. And his ratings on the war in Iraq and on terror in general are now sharply negative.
What has happened? Put simply, it is that the power of the president, with all the attention that office commands, is no match for a steady stream of unsettling news. Every piece of good news, a referendum, an election, has been overshadowed by violence that has taken both Iraqi and American lives. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should not just...
GREENFIELD: Moreover, much of the current wave of negative news has come not from traditional political foes but from retired generals, most recently from former Secretary of State Colin Powell, who said, yes, he had wanted more troops to secure Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: Every White House loves to argue that its best weapon is the president, connecting directly with the people. But all of the fanfare, the backdrops, the media attention, may wind up having less and less power the more the news from offstage appears to remain grim -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeff Greenfield, with that, thank you, Jeff.
There's a developing story we're following right now. The American Civil Liberties Union has released a document it obtained from the Pentagon which it claims shows that Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez ordered interrogators to go to the outer limits to obtain intelligence from prisoners in Iraq during the time of the prison abuse scandal of the Abu Ghraib facility.
Let's get some more specific details from our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the American Civil Liberties Union has gone through 100,000 government documents. They say they found one that shows a senior general push the limits of interrogation. But Pentagon officials say it's anything but a smoking gun.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LT. GEN. RICARDO SANCHEZ, U.S. ARMY: Abu Ghraib was a defeat.
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez was the top commander in Iraq during the time Iraqi detainees were abused at the Abu Ghraib prison. And while he approved the interrogation tactics for prisoners in Iraq, he insists he never approved any technique that constituted abuse.
The ACLU, which has been sifting through thousands of documents obtained from the Pentagon under from Freedom of Information Act, claims one suggests Sanchez was pushing interrogators to break detainees to get information.
In the May 19, 2004 document, a Defense Intelligence Agency employee who was leading a small group of interrogators says, quote, "People were encouraged to go to the outer limits to get information from the detainees by people who wanted the information." When asked who that referred to, the answer was, "Lieutenant General Sanchez said there was a desperate need to get information from detainees."
While the ACLU claims the document implicates Sanchez in potentially abusive interrogation techniques, the reference appears to be to the approved techniques, which the Pentagon argues do not constitute torture or mistreatment. They include such things as sensory deprivation, isolation for up to 30 days, stress positions, and the presence of muzzled military dogs.
The Army says the more than 600 investigations of detainee abuse shows it involves only a small fraction of the more than 50,000 prisoners handled by the U.S. military.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Well, Wolf, we asked the Army for a statement. It said that the case shows that the abuse of detainees is not systemic, and done by just a small fraction of Army troops and most of them serve with honor, dignity and respect.
Lieutenant General Sanchez has consistently refused any more comment on the prison scandal. He remains on active duty in Germany where he has been denied a fourth star because of Congressional opposition to his promotion -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks for that update, Jamie. Appreciate it.
Just ahead tonight, Mexico may be on the verge of legalizing small amounts of cocaine and even heroine. Is that a danger to this country's war on drugs? We have new information. Our Chris Lawrence is in Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The new hurricane season is only a few weeks away, about four. And in New Orleans, a new evacuation plan was unveiled today. Our Gulf Coast correspondent Susan Roesgen is live in New Orleans. She's joining us with the latest -- Susan.
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is the ladder that the people who lived in this house used to get up on the roof in Hurricane Katrina. They stayed up on this roof for days waiting to be rescued because before the hurricane hit, the city did not have a plan to get people out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN (voice-over): Before Katrina, there was no evacuation plan for people who didn't have transportation out of the city. This year, Mayor Ray Nagin says the city will use buses and possibly Amtrak trains to move people out.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: And a mandatory evacuation will be called in the future. As we know the threats that are coming, we have direct lines into the Hurricane Center, as well as coordination with the state and federal levels to make sure that we give our citizens enough time to reach safety.
ROESGEN: What's not part of the new plan is the Superdome. It will not be opened again as a shelter. Instead, evacuees will be bussed to a shelter outside the city. New Orleans Police plan to work with the National Guard, staying behind to save lives if necessary during the storm, while protecting property against looters afterward.
The bottom line is city leaders want everyone out 36 hours before a hurricane hits. And the mayor says those who choose to stay will stay at their own risk.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: They are on their own. Mandatory, I mean we are dealing with adults. So if you decide to disobey a mandatory evacuation and leave, you are confining yourself to your home during an emergency. And if you come outside and violate the curfew, you will be arrested.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN: Now the mayor says his plan has the full support of both state and federal officials. And Wolf, they are going to test it with an actual hurricane drill later this month.
BLITZER: Susan, thanks for that. Just ahead, cocaine and heroine almost legal in Mexico, at least in small amounts. Will it help solve their drug problem or just will it be worse for Americans who want to get high? Stay with us. We'll go to Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It's the bottom line, markets up across the board.
Mexico may be taking a bold step to legalize cocaine and heroine. CNN's Chris Lawrence is in Tijuana. Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, here in Mexico, officials say they're not just legalizing drugs. They say they're going to spend less time going after the users and the addicts and more time targeting the drug gangs and the dealers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): Mexico's decision has shocked people on both sides of the border. The new law makes it legal to possess five grams of marijuana, about four joints. And 500 milligrams of cocaine, enough for four lines. Also legal, small amounts of heroin, ecstasy and other drugs.
JOHN WALTERS, ONDCP: Legalizing drugs is never a good idea.
LAWRENCE: U.S. drug czar John Walters says his deputy and the attorney general have been on the phone with their Mexican counterpart pressing them for details on how this works.
WALTERS: And also to express our concerns that you can't make progress against the drug problem which is already ravaging Mexico and spilling over into the United States, if you don't stop demand.
(on camera): Under Mexico's current law, if someone gets caught with a small amount of drugs, it's up to local judges and police to decide whether they should be prosecuted on a case-by-case basis. There are a lot of loopholes if you could prove that you were an addict. And it led to a lot of bribes.
(voice-over): Supporters say because the law set strict limits on possession, it could be easier to convict dealers. And it empowers local police to make arrests that previously only federal agents could do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could essentially allow any of your children, young adults to walk around with enough lines of cocaine to snort for one to three days.
LAWRENCE: Some American doctors, parents, and politicians are worried about the spill over into border cities like San Diego.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One has to ask the question are the drug lords running the show?
LAWRENCE: They say there's no way to separate what happens on one side of the border from the other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: American teenagers are already attracted to Mexico because they can drink alcohol here. A lot of people are worried about how enticing legalized drugs could be for them. Wolf?
BLITZER: Chris Lawrence, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go right to Jack in New York. Jack?
CAFFERTY: The question is, why can't so many young people find Iraq or Louisiana on a map?
Janet in New Freedom, Pennsylvania: No real surprise that many Americans can't find Iraq, Louisiana on a map. What it's going to take to convince people that the threat of nuclear war and global warming are more important than "American Idol" and Dr. Phil's psycho babble. Forget looking in maps. Maybe we just need a good long look in the mirror.
Chris in Colonial Heights, Virginia: Our schools are handling the children of more than 12 million illegal aliens who often speak little or no English. It's made teaching the normal subjects very difficult. Often our students get very little real education.
Lottie in Nashville, Tennessee: I think it's an embarrassment. I'm a 20-year-old college student, I can find Iraq on a map. I wasn't asked to participate in the survey. I don't think that a few stupid 18-to-24 year olds should represent the whole population.
Theresa in Petal, Mississippi: Jack, I guess it answers Mr. Bush's infamous question, "Is our children learning?" Let's give the kids a break. After all, it took the president several days to find Louisiana after Katrina, and it's right next door to his home state.
BLITZER: Jack, I'll see you tomorrow. Thanks very much. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Remember, we're in THE SITUATION ROOM weekdays 4:00-to-6:00 p.m. Eastern, back at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Let's go up to New York right now. "PAULA ZAHN NOW," Paula's standing by. Hi, Paula.
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