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The Situation Room
Donald Rumsfeld Braves Furious Hecklers; Video From Defense Department Shows Abu Musab al-Zarqawi Fumbling With Machine Gun; A New Cold War; Zacarias Moussaoui's Likely Prison Houses Notorious Convicts; National Anthem In Spanish Debate Has High Stakes; American Basketball Player In Iran
Aired May 04, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR. Defense Secretary on the defensive. Donald Rumsfeld braves a furious barrage by antiwar hecklers.
Vice president on the offensive. Is Dick Cheney firing the first shots in a new Cold War with Russia?
It's 7:00 p.m. in Washington, where Congressman Patrick Kennedy crashes his car on Capitol Hill. Sources say he was swerving. Was alcohol involved?
And it's 3:00 a.m. in Iraq, where the U.S. military shows the tape al Qaeda doesn't want you to see, the most wanted insurgent leader in tennis shoes, fumbling with a machine gun.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, two Washington figures facing some tough questions under very difficult but politically charged circumstances. Congressman Patrick Kennedy's office is issuing a statement about a car crash on Capitol Hill very early today and whether alcohol was involved.
We'll get to that story. That's coming up.
But first, a new and dramatic show of public anger at Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld over the war in Iraq.
CNN's Fredricka Whitfield is joining us now from Atlanta with details on what happened in Atlanta earlier today involving the defense secretary -- Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening to you, Wolf.
The calls for Donald Rumsfeld's resignation have died down since President Bush made it clear his defense secretary is not going anywhere. But the anti-Rumsfeld sentiment clearly still exists, and it was on display today in Atlanta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD (voice over): They had him surrounded. Opponents of the Iraq war showed up for a speech by Donald Rumsfeld at the Atlanta History Center ready to open fire. The defense secretary was repeatedly heckled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You lied to the American people! You lied! You lied! You lied!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You lied that Iraq (INAUDIBLE)! You lied about everything!
WHITFIELD: While others in the crowd booed at the hecklers, Rumsfeld kept his cool and then fired back.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The idea that people in government are lying about something is fundamentally destructive of that trust and at bedrock untrue.
WHITFIELD: But the toughest exchange was yet to come. A man who said he was a former CIA analyst grilled Rumsfeld about prewar claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you knew where they were.
RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were. And we were -- just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you knew where they were, near Tikrit, near Baghdad, and north, east, south and west of there. Those are your words.
WHITFIELD: We checked. And the questioner got Rumsfeld's "we know where they are" quote right. Rumsfeld said it in March 2003 on ABC's "This Week."
Back to the fireworks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would just like an honest answer.
RUMSFELD: I'm giving it to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're talking about lies and your allegation that there was bulletproof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or were you misled?
RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a fact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That's where he was.
RUMSFELD: He was also -- he was also in Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And again, we checked, and Rumsfeld did once refer to "bulletproof CIA evidence" of a link between al Qaeda and Iraq. And today he still suggests there is a connection -- Wolf. BLITZER: And Fred, we're going to have a lot more on this story coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM this hour, but we want to move on now to the videotape al Qaeda doesn't want you to see.
The U.S. military has released images of its most wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, but he's all thumbs as he tries to fumble with a weapon.
Let's turn to our senior national correspondent, John Roberts.
John, what do we know?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good evening to you, Wolf.
It was a completely new tactic in the propaganda war against Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Until now, the U.S. has described him as one of the world's most dangerous terrorists, but today, with newly discovered outtakes from a recent Internet video, the American military is trying to portray Zarqawi as a dilettante and bumbler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAJ. GEN. RICK LYNCH, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: What you saw on the Internet was what he wanted the world to see: Look at me. I'm a capable leader of a capable organization.
ROBERTS (voice over): It was the centerpiece of General Rick Lynch's briefing today.
LYNCH: He's very proud of the fact that he can operate this machine gun.
ROBERTS: Just captured raw footage from an al Qaeda-produced video that U.S. commanders say shows an embarrassing side of Zarqawi.
LYNCH: This piece you don't see as he walks away. He's wearing his black uniform and his New Balance tennis shoes.
ROBERTS: Tennis shoes? Not exactly the stuff of a desert tough terrorist, Lynch mocked. Though, in the Middle East, sneakers are pretty standard among militias and insurgents.
More damaging to Zarqawi's image could be these scenes. Having problems firing the machine guns, an assistant rushes to Zarqawi's aid. We reviewed the tape with CNN security analyst Richard Falkenrath.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: I think it would play pretty badly. I mean, Arabs traditionally like strong men, men who really are strong leaders, fighters. That's how he's tried to portray himself in the past. This video shows him as a bit of a bumbler.
ROBERTS: What's more, immediately after Zarqawi fires the gun, he hands it off to an associate, a clear indication this was just a photo op. And in an obvious violation of weapons 101, another aide grabs the gun's hot barrel, burning his hand. The very picture of incompetence is what General Lynch seemed to think of it.
LYNCH: It makes you wonder.
ROBERTS: No one has previously accused Zarqawi of being incompetent. He has certainly proven he can carry out major attacks against American and Iraqi targets. But the U.S. insists it is closing in on the terror leader, and now destroying his credibility appears part of the plan.
FALKENRATH: Well, I think it's one round in an ongoing propaganda war. And it's a loss for him on this one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: The capture of the outtakes would seem to suggest that the U.S. military is hot on al-Zarqawi's trail. The question is how close. And a second question, if al-Zarqawi pulls off another major attack, does the U.S. military look bad for calling him a bumbler -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John Roberts, thanks very much.
Is Vice President Dick Cheney firing the opening shots in a new Cold War with the Kremlin? Are relations with Russia headed back to the freezer? There are new developments tonight.
Let's bring in our Brian Todd. He has the story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, some observers say not since Ronald Reagan's evil empire speech has a U.S. leader been so publicly critical of Moscow. But today, after the vice president set his sights squarely on the Kremlin, experts told us these tensions have been simmering for quite some time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): How did U.S. relations with Russia go from this...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. I was able to get a sense of his soul.
TODD: ... to this?
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Russia today, opponents of reform are seeking to reverse the gains of the last decade.
TODD: And this in just five years...
CHENEY: No legitimate interest is served when oil and gas become tools of intimidation or blackmail.
TODD: That blackmail accusation a reference to Russia's dispute with neighboring Ukraine over natural gas, which Moscow had cut for three days. It's not necessarily a new Cold War, but analysts say there is clearly a chill.
PROF. HOPE HARRISON, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV.: The U.S. has been increasingly worried about Putin's path backwards toward a more authoritarian type of regime, cracking down on media freedoms, cracking down on civil rights groups, on civil liberties.
TODD: And U.S. officials are fed up, analysts say, with what's perceived to be Russia's strong-arming of new Western-leaning governments in Ukraine and Georgia.
A Russian embassy spokesman tells CNN the Kremlin finds Cheney's speech completely incomprehensible, not representative of the processes going on in Russia. Analysts say Moscow believe the White House is doing strong-arming of its own.
HARRISON: From the Russian perspective, this is -- this is U.S. real politic against Russia's interests, seeking to set up regimes on Russia's borders that are going to be or are already now part of the EU, part of NATO, part of the West against Russia.
TODD: And, observers say, Moscow is critical of American involvement in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Where does it go from here? One analyst says we'll hear what he calls tough love in public from U.S. and Russian leaders. But experts say the two former Cold War rivals still need each other to navigate the nuclear standoff with Iran and to share intelligence in the war on terror -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thanks for that. Stand by. We have you working another story, as well.
In the meantime, let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty standing by with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm only doing one.
BLITZER: You do one each hour.
CAFFERTY: But it's pretty good.
BLITZER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: The more things change the more they stay the same, Wolf. But somehow, I think this time might be different.
The American public is unhappy about a lot of stuff right now -- rising gas prices, the war in Iraq, illegal immigration, securing our borders, just to name a few. But with the midterm elections six months away and with the Republican Party very much on the ropes with the voters, here's what they have come up with...
A Senate subcommittee controlled by the Republicans has approved a measure to change the Constitution in order to ban flag burning. Flag burning. If these morons in Washington don't begin addressing the important issues, that flag isn't going to mean anything. And this time around, I think -- I sense the voters might understand this -- the old tricks aren't going to work anymore.
Gay marriage, abortion, all the wedge issues are not going to carry the same weight in this election. This time it's about saving the country.
So here's the question: Is this the time for Congress to try to change the Constitution to ban flag burning?
E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: I sense you believe there are more important issues than this one right now, Jack.
CAFFERTY: OK. One or two.
BLITZER: Yes. Stand by, Jack. We'll get back to you soon.
Coming up, we're following a developing story here in Washington on a car crash very early this morning involving Congressman Patrick Kennedy. There are now questions being asked about whether alcohol was involved and whether proper police procedures were followed.
We'll have the latest information.
Plus, 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui could be on his way to the toughest prison in the United States. His potential prison neighbors on bomber's row, as it's called, are a who's who of the nation's most notorious criminals.
What else does he have to look forward to for the rest of his life? We'll have details.
And a new book slams the New Orleans mayor, Ray Nagin, right in the middle of his re-election campaign. He's firing right back.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
We're following a developing story tonight here in THE SITUATION ROOM. It involves a member of America's most famous political family, the Kennedys.
An aide to Congressman Patrick Kennedy is acknowledging the Rhode Island Democrat was in a car accident on Capitol Hill early this morning, and he's responding to questions about whether alcohol was involved.
Our Brian Todd broke the story here in THE SITUATION ROOM. He's joining us once again with the latest information -- Brian. TODD: Wolf, we've been putting together this story all day. It does involve an accident that happened in the very early morning hours this morning on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): Congressional and law enforcement sources tell CNN early Thursday morning Capitol Hill Police observed a car driven by Representative Patrick Kennedy crash into a barricade on Capitol Hill. These sources say Patrick Kennedy was the only person in the vehicle. One law enforcement source says Kennedy was not injured but the car was badly damaged.
Late today, Kennedy issued this statement: "I was involved in a traffic incident last night at First and C Street SE near the U.S. Capitol. I consumed no alcohol prior to the incident. I will fully cooperate with the Capitol Police in whatever investigation they choose to undertake."
But CNN sources, a top law enforcement official in Washington and an official in Congress, say officers observed that his car was swerving before the crash. And according to those officers, that Kennedy appeared intoxicated.
Sources say the officers made a decision to drive Kennedy home. There is no indication from the sources that a sobriety test was given or that an arrest was made.
One source tells CNN Kennedy told an officer he was late for a vote. Versions from all sources indicate the accident occurred at approximately 3:00 a.m. Eastern Time. In fact, the House of Representatives adjourned previously that night at about midnight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: CNN has made a formal request for an incident report from Capitol Hill Police, but we have not yet received one. Capitol Police have so far issued a statement saying they are investigating a traffic violation early this morning -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thanks about that.
Let's talk a little bit more about Congressman Kennedy's accident with the president of the D.C. Fraternal Order of Police. The officers involved are members of that organization, and Lou Cannon is here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Just to be clear, Lou, you're here as an officer of the police union. You do not work for Capitol Hill Police. Is that right?
LOU CANNON, D.C. FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: That is correct.
BLITZER: All right. What do you know based on what you have heard about this incident? Clearly, you were not there yourself. You are only hearing things. CANNON: That's correct. I mean, talking to Capitol Police officers and other people that have knowledge of the incident, I've been told basically just essentially what you reported. Approximately 3:00 in the morning they observed a vehicle maneuver subsequently striking one of the security barriers at the Capitol at First and C Street Southeast.
BLITZER: What's the procedure? What would Capitol Hill police normally do in a situation like this if there's a traffic accident of this nature?
CANNON: Well, you stop. You get the driver out, which was done. You start talking to him. And that's when your investigation begins.
The officers believed they detected an odor of alcohol about him. Based on his appearance, based on their experience...
BLITZER: Would they normally do a breathalyzer test?
CANNON: A lot of times, yes, a breathalyzer test would be requested. However, in this case there was no breathalyzer test that was done.
BLITZER: Why not?
CANNON: Police officials arrived on the scene and determined that Mr. Kennedy would be taken home and that the investigation would be concluded at a later time.
BLITZER: Because, you know, there's a time sensitivity involving these kinds of breathalyzer tests, as you know.
CANNON: The closest to the incident that you take the breathalyzer, the more accurate it's going to be, the more information and the better off you are.
BLITZER: Is it your suspicion based on what you know -- and you don't -- you weren't there -- you're only hearing things, this is all hearsay -- that he got preferential treatment? Is that what you're hearing?
CANNON: I think that he was extended a courtesy by virtue of his position. I don't know that either Wolf Blitzer or Lou Cannon would have been given that courtesy. But obviously he was.
BLITZER: The -- and I just want to be precise. We did ask Capitol Hill Police to come here and to explain, tell our viewers what they know. They declined, at least for now. We also invited Congressman Kennedy to come in, and he declined for now, as well.
There are some suggestion -- and we'll wrap this up -- that some members of Capitol Hill Police are upset about what they would regard as the preferential treatment for Congressman Kennedy. Are you hearing that?
CANNON: I think they are concerned about preferential treatment in general for members of Congress. In this case, it just happens to be Congressman Kennedy. But, I mean, they want to make sure that they can be afforded the opportunity to do their job without any interference irregardless of who they encounter up there. Obviously, because of where they work you stand a strong chance of encountering a member.
BLITZER: In fairness, though, to Congressman Kennedy, if you are in car accident, the car is badly damaged, you get out, you would be wobbly, too. And you would give the impression...
CANNON: Absolutely.
BLITZER: ... but not necessarily being stable. And it potentially had nothing to do with alcohol.
CANNON: All the more reason to take a test right then and there.
BLITZER: We'll leave it there. Lou Cannon, thanks very much for coming in.
CANNON: Thank you, Mr. Blitzer.
BLITZER: Still tonight in THE SITUATION ROOM, Zacarias Moussaoui is on his way to a place that's very exclusive to some of the world's most feared and hated convicted criminals. Some of the most dangerous in the world. Now that Moussaoui's been sentenced, we're going to tell you which other notorious lawmakers will be his prison mates.
And why is the New Orleans mayor, Ray Nagin, fuming about a new book that claims to be an accurate account of his behavior during and after Hurricane Katrina? Mary Snow has the details.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: True story or questionable account? Does a new book about what happened after Hurricane Katrina answer most people's questions or simply raise more new questions?
Joining us now from New York is CNN's Mary Snow. She's been going through this book and getting reaction -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, some heated words are being exchanged tonight over the yet-to-be-released book. It faults many for the handling of Katrina but has some of the most stinging criticism for Mayor Ray Nagin as he face as runoff in the mayor's race in two weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: I think it is a tabloid political hit man.
SNOW (voice over): Mayor Ray Nagin is blasting the new account of his handling of Hurricane Katrina appearing in a new book titled "The Great Deluge: Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast." "Vanity Fair" has published an excerpt sparking a feud between Nagin and author Douglas Brinkley, an historian at Tulane University.
Brinkley writes that in the chaos after Katrina slammed into New Orleans, Nagin cloistered himself in the Hyatt hotel, got his news from a hand-cranked radio and was in his words, comparatively sedentary. It claims that two city officials urged Nagin to leave the hotel three days after the storm hit, a day when Nagin phoned WWL Radio's Garland Robinette.
NAGIN: Now get off your asses and let's do something. And let's fix the biggest god damn crisis in the history of this country.
SNOW: The book claims when Nagin hung up the phone he broke down crying. He sequestered himself in the bathroom. That's an account attributed to City Councilwoman Jacqueline Clarkson.
On the phone, Clarkson told CNN that Nagin got emotional, but she didn't go so far as to say he cried. She denied urging him to leave the hotel and get out on to the streets.
A day later, an incident aboard Air Force One was accounted as leaders met with the president. Frustrated by the lack of action, the book says Nagin slammed his hand down on the table and insisted that a chain of command needed to be established.
Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, present at the meeting, is quoted as saying, "When we met on Air Force One, Nagin was falling apart." In New Orleans, Nagin dismissed the book, saying he has no respect for Brinkley.
NAGIN: Any legitimate historian would not release their book right in the middle of a re-election campaign.
SNOW: Nagin faces a runoff May 20th with Lieutenant Governor Mitch Landrieu, who is quoted in the book.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And tonight author Douglas Brinkley tells CNN, " It is narcissistic for Mayor Nagin to believe that my 716-page history -- 'The Great Deluge' -- is anchored around his runoff election." He goes on to say, "He was a mayor afraid of his own people. He spent the first four days of Katrina hiding on the 27th floor of the Hyatt."
We contacted Nagin's office for reaction but we have not yet gotten a response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary Snow in New York.
Thanks very much.
Just ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld heckled, hounded and harassed by antiwar protesters. Did he hold his ground? That's coming up in our "Strategy Session." And America's at odds with Iran, so you would think he would be the odd man out. But get this: an American basketball player finds a home away from home in a very unlikely location. Namely, in Tehran. We're going to tell you what's going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now back to our top story.
Donald Rumsfeld on the defense. At an appearance in Atlanta earlier today, the Pentagon chief was grilled by an audience member about Iraq and prewar claims of weapons of mass destruction. On top of that, Rumsfeld was repeatedly heckled by antiwar protesters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You lied that Iraq (INAUDIBLE)! You lied about everything!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Joining us now are CNN political analysts Democratic strategist Paul Begala, and former Republican Congressman J.C. Watts.
It was a lively exchange that the defense secretary had in Atlanta with one questioner.
Listen to this.
RUMSFELD: It appears that there were not weapons of mass destruction.
QUESTION: You said you knew where they were.
RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and we were...
QUESTION: ... you said you knew where they were near Tikrit, near Baghdad and northeast, south and west of there. Those are your words.
RUMSFELD: My words were that -- no, no, wait a minute. Let him stay one second. Just a second.
QUESTION: This is America, huh?
RUMSFELD: You're getting plenty of play, sir.
BLITZER: All right. Here's what the defense secretary said on March 30, 2003 in an interview on ABC's "This Week." He said, "We know where they (weapons of mass destruction) are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." And at another point, the questioner said you said that you had bulletproof knowledge where they were. We checked to see if Rumsfeld ever did say that. And Rumsfeld did say on September 26th, 2002, that the CIA provided, quote, "bulletproof evidence demonstrating that there are in fact al Qaeda in Iraq." That's what the specific reference was.
Has he become a lightning rod for this administration, and in effect counterproductive to the president's efforts to regroup?
WATTS: Well, Secretary Rumsfeld, Wolf, Paul has those conversations, the kind of conversations with members of Congress, you know, here in the Beltway, outside of the Beltway. Don Rumsfeld, he is who he is. And I don't think that, you know, the president -- again, we've had this conversation in the last two weeks. I don't think that the president thinks that he's a lead balloon around his neck. I think he's going to stick with him.
I think it is good -- again, and I have said this before -- I think it's good that they are out in the trenches having these conversations with people, answer those questions, don't stay here in the Beltway and isolate yourself. Get out there in the trenches and answer these questions.
BLITZER: Here is the latest poll, the CBS poll. Rumsfeld as defense secretary, 33 percent of the American public approve; 49 percent disapprove. But on the bigger issue of the Bush administration's handling of Iraq, Paul, 30 percent approve of the way the president is handling Iraq; 64 percent disapprove.
Is it fair to focus in on Rumsfeld per se? Isn't it the president of the United States where the buck stops?
BEGALA: That's a good point. I mean, I always used to like to say that I focus on the organ grinder, not the monkey. Right? The president is the organ grinder.
But we can't fire him. There's a few on the left who want to impeach him. I think that's unwise. He has a four-year no-cut contract with the American people, and unlike in 2000, in '04, even in my eyes he earned it fair and square.
So you have to go then to the person who is expendable, and who should be held accountable in addition to the president, and that is Mr. Rumsfeld.
And I was struck by that exchange. I'm glad that you shared with our readers -- with our viewers, that that citizen was exactly right and Rumsfeld was wrong. He was either unable to remember his words or misleading us.
And this goes to Rumsfeld's problem and Mr. Bush's on Iraq. They are two-fold: Credibility and competence. The American people no longer believe Donald Rumsfeld or George W. Bush, and they fear that they are not competent to execute a policy even if they were to support the war. They don't want these folks running it. These are two twin deficits that the president has, of credibility and competence.
BLITZER: Is it wise to put Rumsfeld out there at these public events? You think it is, despite the fact that he's become such a lightning rod from the administration perspective?
WATTS: Wolf, if he's going to be your secretary of defense, I think the president has made a decision that he's not going anywhere. If he's going to be the secretary of defense, I think that more than the president should be out there talking about these issues.
People who are in the trenches every day, that understand what's going on in Iraq, they should be talking about it. I think one of the problems, Wolf, is the fact that they haven't been doing that. That's the argument that I've been making all along. When you allow other people to define and frame the issues, then you've got to go out and defend the story that your opposition is telling. That's the wrong way to handle this.
BLITZER: And, Paul, to Rumsfeld's credit, he is going out and speaking at events where he can face kind of hostile questions. He went up before the Council on Foreign Relations, went to my alma mater, the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, now in Atlanta. He's not just going to a military base, to Ft. Benning or Ft. Stewart, and speaking to the troops. He's going out there and exposing himself and allowing himself to be grilled.
BEGALA: He is. And that's good for him. And it's good for our democracy. And keep in mind, as you said, that exchange was in Georgia, a very red state. And yet, the secretary was, from that film clip we saw, treated with little respect by a citizen who knew the facts better than the secretary of defense did. And he was hammered.
The problem is -- I was part of Rummy mania too. I thought he handled the press briefing so well. But the skills he brings to the press room are very different when you are dealing with a citizen. It's OK to be arrogant and pushy when you are dealing with journalists, quite frankly. I think it's fine.
I like it. But when you are dealing with a citizen, and it sounded from that exchange like they were actually throwing that citizen out of the room, who -- he was not profane, he was not dishonest, he was not disrespectful. I certainly hope they didn't throw that guy out.
So Rumsfeld now becomes -- when you move him to a different venue, out of the briefing room and into dealing with real citizens, as J.C. had to do as a real politician, he's failing miserably and he's failing the president.
WATTS: I think now they did say -- I think they were trying to remove him and he said, no...
BLITZER: Rumsfeld said, let him stay, to his credit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Paul Begala and J.C. Watts, part of the best political team on television, CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
Still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, which maximum security prison will be Zacarias Moussaoui's new life-long home? And what will his days be like there? We're going to take a closer look at one Supermax prison that houses a virtual who's who of convicted terrorists.
And is there a difference of opinion between President Bush and the first lady when it comes to the national anthem? Why they may be agreeing to disagree over "The Star Spangled Banner." All that coming up here on THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It's the last time he will ever get to speak publicly to any audience, and this is what Zacarias Moussaoui chose to say. Let me quote him. "God curse America and bless Osama bin Laden." Last rants from a remorseless, relentless Moussaoui, just before he was carted off to prison.
Today, the admitted al Qaeda conspirator was sentenced to life in prison with no chance for parole for his role in the 9/11 attacks.
At the proceeding, the judge said -- let me quote her -- "you came here to be martyr and die in a big bang of glory, but to paraphrase the poet T.S. Eliot, instead you will die with a whimper."
At the federal prison where Moussaoui will likely be sent, prisoners are about as confined and isolated as you can get. Among them, some notorious convicts with household names. CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us live from Los Angeles with details -- Chris.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Supermax is a federal prison just about 70 miles south of Denver, and if Moussaoui is treated the same as other inmates, he will spend almost every minute of the day completely alone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): One of America's most beautiful landscapes is home to its most dangerous criminals. But most will never see the mountains, or each other.
The so-called Alcatraz of the Rockies is home to Oklahoma City conspirator Terry Nichols, Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph, shoe bomber Richard Reid, Unabomber Ted Kaczynski and 1993 World Trade Center terrorists Omar Abdel Rahman and Ramzi Yousef.
Supermax inmates spend almost 23 hours a day locked behind solid steel doors in a soundproof cell. The bed, desk, stool, all made of cold, hard concrete. The only window is four inches wide and looks out on another part of the prison.
MICHAEL BRENNAN, USC LAW PROFESSOR: It's a very difficult existence. LAWRENCE: USC law professor Michael Brennan is representing several death row inmates. He says Zacarias Moussaoui will never interact with other prisoners, only guards and even then for a few minutes a day.
(on camera): Do you think the average person understands how harsh that is, to be cut off from human contact?
BRENNAN: Wherever you lock someone up and deprive him of any physical or emotional or social contact with other human beings, you are going to destroy that person.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): If Moussaoui is like other inmates, he'll get a choice of books to read, including the Koran. Soft flexible pens to write with and between one and four phone calls a month. He'll also be able to exercise alone for 90 minutes a day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Some inmates are allowed to have up to five visitors a month but no physical contact with the visitor. Moussaoui can also request what's called a certified religious diet. For example, no pork because he's Muslim. Wolf?
BLITZER: Chris, thanks for that report. Let's get a better sense now of where this Supermax prison is. Tom Foreman is here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If he hates America, he will be within sight of the Purple Mountains -- Purple Mountains Majesty was written about in the song, but he'll never see them, not from this joint.
You go down in here, I covered the opening of this many years ago and these are tough places. A cluster of several federal prisons here. This one over here is the most minimum security one. You can see down here that they've got pretty open grounds. No big fences or anything like this.
Over here at the next facility, you've got more security around it. A big fence around, but still some fields, that sort of thing. You go to the high security place over here, you get a little bit more, less ability to recreate, that sort of thing.
And then finally, this is the Supermax. And if you take a look at this facility, right here you see that it's got big-time fences all the way around it. It's sealed in, there's very little open ground.
These buildings were actually made not simply to withstand people trying to escape from the inside but if someone tried to attack from the outside with helicopters or rockets or bombs.
This is an unbelievable prison. It is within sight of some of the most beautiful parts of the entire world, certainly one of the beautiful parts of America and Zacarias Moussaoui will never, ever see them from inside. And if it is the way it's been built, it will never be a day that he gets out.
BLITZER: Tom Foreman, thanks for that. Let's turn now to the investigation into how terrorists are using the Internet. CNN has been exploring a very disturbing Web site that seeks volunteers for suicide bombings. Does it have ties to the United States and Canada? Let's bring in our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton. She's tracking the story online. This is very disturbing, Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: It is, Wolf. And take a look at this. An online recruitment site with a form that you can fill out to become a suicide bomber, to become a martyr.
It promises an e-mail or a phone call back if you join up. The site is mostly in Farsi, we had it translated although it does promise an English translation is under construction. We spoke to an expert in online terrorism, that's Laura Mansfield, and what she told us this site is particularly disturbing because it is so sophisticated.
So who is behind it? Well it is listed as registered to a company right here in the United States in Houston, Texas, Host Iran Networks (ph). It is listed to an office building that we called and they've never heard from them.
An e-mail to Host Iran Networks was returned. They said -- they told us that they did used to do business in Texas, that they once hosted this site although no longer. They didn't tell us who is hosting the site now or from where. We have contacted the FBI. They are looking into it and we will continue to do so, as well. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thank you, Abbi. When you get more, you'll let us know. And to our viewers, stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
Just ahead, President Bush and the national anthem. Why a controversial version of the Star Spangled Banner could hurt the president's ties with America's Latino community.
And get this, an American basketball player is a long way from home and from his family. Very long way, he's living and playing ball, get this, in Iran. We're going to tell you what's going on. A report you will see only here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: With oil prices down and consumer spending up, U.S. markets rebounded today. The Dow Jones industrial average, the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ all gained ground. That's the bottom line.
Throughout his two terms, President Bush has reached out to the Latino community. But will the debate over the Spanish version of the national anthem and immigration reform turn Latino voters toward the Democrats? Joining us now, our chief national correspondent John King, who's been looking at the story. John?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this whole debate over should the national anthem be sung in Spanish has become a subplot, some say a distracting sideshow to an immigration reform debate that requires first some very policy decisions. But let's be honest, also involves some high-stakes politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): When the politicians get involved, Cinco de Mayo is as much a competition as it is a celebration.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mexican Americans have made our nation more vibrant and more hopeful cada dia.
KING: The political power and potential political power of the country's fast growing Latino population is front and center in an already delicate policy debate over immigration reform and whether to put millions illegally in the United States on a path to legal status.
Simple math tells you why both political parties are watching this debate and the recent marches so closely. Latinos cast just two percent of the votes for president in 1992. Eight percent in 2004.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS: When you look at the close division of the country, particularly in presidential elections where 150,000 votes in Ohio or a few hundred votes in Florida can decide the outcome of who is going to be in the White House in 2008 or 2012, it can have a tremendous impact.
KING: Mr. Bush has made outreach a priority with success, winning 44 percent of the Latino vote in 2004, up from 35 percent in 2000. But his opposition to a new Spanish-language version of the national anthem as alienated some Latinos.
BUSH: And I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English.
KING: The first lady has a softer take, as long as it's done respectfully.
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: I don't think there's anything wrong with singing it in Spanish.
KING: Some see a short-term political calculation. The president perhaps trying to placate conservatives who oppose his support for giving illegals guest worker status.
JEFFREY: Is this a way to get a few brownie points without actually doing any about changing his policy position?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now even many Latino activists are disappointed with the president's position on the Spanish language national anthem, they say they think it is a distraction. The focus should be on the nuts and bolts of immigration reform.
They also say, Wolf, that immigration alone is not going to decide who wins the Latino vote. They care as much about gas prices, the war in Iraq, as anyone else, but what they do say is this: all these rallies, organizing them, bringing them together have taught them some very valuable organizational lessons and tools that they say they will try to put to use in 2006 and 2008.
BLITZER: John King, thanks for that.
Jacki Schechner is standing by with more on this story -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, this is the "Star Spangled Banner" in Spanish. And as Think Progress, the blogging arm of the liberal Center for American Progress pointed out, it was commissioned by the Bureau for Education, an old federal agency, back in 1919.
This, by the way, is the same year that the official standard version that we all know and love was actually published. I spoke to the music department at the Library of Congress where you can see this for yourself. They tell me they also have versions in Polish, in Italian, in French and even in Armenian.
You can also go to the State Department Web site. Their international information site has four versions of the "Star Spangled Banner" in Spanish. We reached out to Senator Lamar Alexander, who's proposed a resolution that we sing the national anthem only in English. His office tells me this is not about what we are free to do, it's about what we ought to do -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thanks very much.
Jack is in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf.
We have two wars, one in Iraq, one in Afghanistan, we've got deficits, we've got $70 oil, $3 gasoline, 50 million Americans with no health insurance, no border security, 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in the country and a Senate subcommittee today voted on whether or not to change the Constitution in order to ban flag burning. The Republicans control that subcommittee.
The question is, is this the time for Congress to try to change the Constitution to ban flag burning?
Meryl in Brooklyn writes, "When the Republicans card out the anti-flag burning legislation, you know they're running scared and need to find new tried and true wedge issues to try to take the American voters attention away from the wars and the incompetence of Team Bush."
Tom in St. Louis: "Let's burn the people in Congress at the polls in November. Our flag will then shine again in the world."
Jim in Atlanta: "My sister has breast cancer and can't pay for healthcare. I'm glad such an educated group have decided every morning when they go to work that flag burning is what really matters. Tell my sister's kids that."
Tom in New York: "It's time to make Congress read the Constitution after giving their war powers, lock, stock and gun barrel over to the executive branch."
Dave in Sarasota, Florida: "Dust the Flag Bill for fingerprints, bet you'll find Karl Rove's. Sad thing is, you can fool some of the people all of the time."
And D.W. in Crescent City, California: "Yes, we should draw the line on flag burning. Now it's Old Glory. Next, it might be the Mexican flag. Where will it all end?" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, see you tomorrow in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much.
Let's find out what's coming up right at the top of the hour. Paula is standing by. Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. That will be about seven minutes from now where I will be talking with a former CIA analyst who was involved in that dramatic confrontation today with Defense Secretary -- let's try that again -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. What drove him to face down Rumsfeld and accuse him of lying? You'll hear his story coming up.
We're also going to meet a woman who suffers from a very rare disorder that turns every decision she faces into an absolute nightmare. Why can't she make up her mind? Can anything help her? How many times a day does she wash her hands? Well, you'll go through her routine with her tonight. It really is quite amazing, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks, Paula, for that. We'll be watching.
Still ahead, he stands out in Iran for a number of reasons. We're going to meet an American basketball player during a rare look inside Iran. Stay with us. You'll want to see this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The leaders of the United States and Iran are locked in a nuclear struggle and sanctions, even military action, have not been ruled out. So why would an American basketball player want to leave his home in the United States and find a new home in Iran? Details now from CNN's Aneesh Raman. He's one of the few western journalists in Iran -- Aneesh.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it is hard, as you would imagine, to find other Americans in Iran, but we found one on the basketball courts of Tehran.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAMAN (voice-over): At 7'2", it's hard for Garth Joseph not to stand out, especially as an American basketball player in Iran. GARTH JOSEPH, PLAYS BASKETBALL IN IRAN: I was skeptical of coming here, just like everybody in America. You know, my wife is kind of like -- is very concerned. So she went on the Internet and she tried to find embassy, and when she found out we didn't have an embassy here, she was really mad.
RAMAN: But last October, Garth came anyway, leaving behind his life in New York and becoming one of 20 foreign basketball players in Iran, a country very much at odds with his own, a situation his family finds more and more troubling.
JOSEPH: They always call me asking me something like, the nuclear -- you know, nuclear struggle that's going on, they call me and ask me about this all the time. And I'm like, well, I don't see that, I don't hear that.
RAMAN: What he does see are restrictions everywhere. And a lifestyle that to this American is a bit boring.
JOSEPH: The lack of excitement, the lack of stuff to do. You can't go to a bar or a club.
RAMAN: As we head to his apartment...
(on camera): Man, they've got to give you some extra room.
(voice-over): There are also some physical restrictions. And inside a quick tour of contraband, things that would seem ordinary in the U.S. But here in Iran, alcohol is forbidden and bootleg bacon.
JOSEPH: This cost $11.
RAMAN: Pork is also forbidden in this Islamic state. .
JOSEPH: Lucky. Give me that.
RAMAN: But Garth says it is the Iranian players and people here that keep him sane.
JOSEPH: These are the best people I've seen, especially my teammates. I have never been on a team where I loved everybody.
RAMAN: A native of Dominica, Garth has traveled the world from Cuba to Iran, putting aside his NBA dreams for economic realities. In Iran, he gets a paycheck and every night he calls home, speaks to his three kids. Their pictures are always close by. They are, he says, the reason he came here.
It is perhaps an ironic twist. An American coming to Iran to make a living, here amid a brewing international conflict; staying away from politics, though, and sticking to what he does best.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAMAN: And I asked Garth as well if he's worried he might have to, one day soon, leave, if tensions continue to rise between Iran and the U.S. At the moment he says he's not concerned -- Wolf.
BLITZER: An American ball player in Iran. Aneesh, thanks very much for that report.
We're here in THE SITUATION ROOM weekdays 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. We're also back 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Among my guests tomorrow, the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Until then, let's go up to Paula in New York -- Paula.
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