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The Situation Room

Fresh Concerns Over New Domestic Spying Controversy; First Lady Traveling; Republicans Launch Social Networking Hub Online; New Revelations About NSA Trouble Americans; Darfur Crisis Spilling Into Chad

Aired May 11, 2006 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.

Happening now, it's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, where there's a new domestic spying controversy. Is the government secretly collecting phone records from tens of millions of Americans? President Bush says not to worry, but there's growing concern in Congress.

And what could the government be learning about you? I'll speak with the author James Bamford, an expert on the top secret National Security Agency.

And she's almost twice as popular as her husband. Could first lady Laura Bush be the last hope for Republicans on the campaign trail?

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

With Americans already uneasy about domestic eavesdropping, there are fresh concerns today with a "USA Today" report that phone records of millions of American citizens are being delivered into the database of a top secret spy agency. President Bush says your privacy is being protected, but the phone record revelation is already having a ripple effect, and it's spreading quickly.

Our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, is standing by, but let's get all of the basic details from our national security correspondent, David Ensor -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the newspaper reports that since late 2001, the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call data of tens of millions of Americans. Lists of numbers they've called with help from AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth as part of effort to stop terrorists before they can attack this country. Top officials are not confirming it, but they are notably not denying it, either.

Now, we have known for some time that after the 9/11 attacks, the telecom giants were asked to help the government more. "USA Today" says they have been handing over complete telephone records, just the numbers, with all the names and other data stripped away. It says one company, Qwest, refused to do so.

The revelation comes at a bad time for General Michael Hayden, the president's nominee to be the CIA director, who was director of the National Security Agency when this program would have started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: All I would want to say is everything that NSA does is lawful and very carefully done, and that the appropriate members of the Congress, House and Senate are briefed on all NSA activities. And I think I'd just leave it at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: General Michael Hayden -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What is the government going to do with all these phone numbers? What is the purpose of all of this?

ENSOR: Well, Wolf, the goal is to look for patterns. If a terrorist mastermind calls the U.S. from overseas, for example, he may not talk directly to the sleeper cell in the U.S., but to someone else, who would talk to someone else, cut-outs, in other words, and thus relay the message to the would-be terrorist.

Those patterns can show up if you have a massive database like this. And experts say there's no statute that prohibits the government from accepting information voluntarily provided. And that, of course -- the revelation, though, has prompted an uproar. That is for sure -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, thanks for that.

David is watching the story for us. Also watching is our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux.

It didn't take very long for the president to react publicly to this "USA Today" report -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you're absolutely right, because President Bush, of course, was trying to highlight some of the progress from Hurricane Katrina at a commencement speech in a Gulf Coast community in Mississippi. This all, of course, overshadowed by the controversy over these phone logs. And it was really a very clear sign here, Wolf, that things are changing at the White House, it is no longer business as usual.

President Bush did not wait for a news cycle to pass before he got out in front of this and vehemently defended his administration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice over): In an extraordinary move just hours after the controversy erupted, the White House put the president in front of the cameras.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans. Our efforts are focused on links to al Qaeda and their known affiliates.

MALVEAUX: Careful not to confirm or deny the story, Mr. Bush rebutted any suggestion that the government was breaking the law or violating civil liberties.

G. BUSH: The government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval.

MALVEAUX: Last December, the president did confirm he authorized the National Security Agency, or NSA, to listen to calls to and from the United States involving suspected terrorists without court approval. That set off a firestorm of controversy for members of Congress who said they weren't adequately consulted about the NSA surveillance program.

Democrats pounced on today's news to call for a renewed set of investigations into whether the president acted outside of the law.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Only through the press are we beginning to learn the truth. The secret collection of phone calls records tens of thousands of Americans. Now, are you telling me that tens of millions of Americans are involved with al Qaeda?

MALVEAUX: Republicans quickly jumped to the president's defense.

SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: This is nuts. We are in a war, and we have got to collect intelligence on the enemy. And you can't tell the enemy in advance how you're going to do it.

MALVEAUX: The controversy could complicate the president's efforts to get his nominee for CIA director, General Michael Hayden, confirmed by the Senate. Hayden was the former head of the NSA.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The administration has an obligation to let us know what it has done, how extensively it has done it. And General Hayden is in a position to know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, Wolf, of course this is a credibility issue. Some would say a credibility problem for this administration, for the president in particular. But the White House strategy is twofold.

As long as they say that the government's activities, A, are meant to protect Americans from terrorists, and B, are lawful, they believe that that one-two punch will convince Americans that, look, this is nothing to worry about. And they've got evidence of this. Polls showing that back in December, most Americans did not object to that NSA domestic spying program once the president made his case -- Wolf. BLITZER: Do you see any fingerprints on this speedy decision to put the president out before the cameras in reacting to this "USA Today" story? Any fingerprints of Josh Bolten, the new White House chief of staff, a new strategy to react quickly as opposed to let these controversies continue to explode?

MALVEAUX: Absolutely, Wolf. I mean, it really was extraordinary what happened this morning.

Just within hours this story breaking. The president was put before the cameras. Normally, a situation like this, perhaps they would have waited days, even weeks. Perhaps they would have even ignored this story.

There would have been background briefings. You would have the press secretary out there perhaps trying to field questions. But this, may no mistake, Wolf, a very different way of operating for this White House, putting the president out here in front to deal with this immediately.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

Thank you.

Did Justice Department attorneys act ethically in authorizing the NSA spy program? That's the question that lawmakers want answered. But it doesn't look promising, at least not now.

Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is joining us with the latest -- Jacki.

JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, Congressmen Maurice Hinchey and three other House Democrats asked the Department of Justice to look into its own role in improving the NSA warrantless wiretapping program. There's actually an office within the Department of Justice called the Office of Professional Responsibility, and they do just this: they look into allegations of misconduct. They were tasked with this investigation.

But Congressman Hinchey just got a letter yesterday saying the investigation was being called off, that the Department of Justice OPR office couldn't get the clearance it needed from the NSA and that they're going to stop looking into this. Well, the Department of Justice told CNN that the NSA program is so secretive that only those who have a need to know are going to get that kind of information.

Now, today, Hinchey and three other members of Congress have answered back. They want to know basically, who did you ask and who said no? Those are the two questions they're sending back to the Department of Justice.

You want more information? Go to CNN.com/situationreport. We have posted all of the links for you there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jacki, thanks very much. This issue involving the warrantless wiretaps, as opposed to the newest development with the databases -- with a database of all of these phone records.

Jacki Schechner, thanks very much.

Zain Verjee joining us once again from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news -- Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, they were vicious terror strikes striking the heart of London last July. Today a new report suggests that they might have been stopped.

A report from a committee in Britain's House of Commons says the chances of preventing the attacks might have been better had more resources been available. The report also says British law enforcement agencies need better coordination in combating homegrown terrorist threats.

The government has a disturbing report out this afternoon on U.S. soldiers and stress. It says less than one-fourth of Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans who show signs of post-traumatic stress are referred for treatment or evaluation. The report also cites inconsistencies in how the different branches of the military handle referrals for mental health care.

Fifteen years to life, that's the sentence for a Roman Catholic priest in Ohio convicted of murdering a nun 26 years ago. There was no reaction from the Reverend Gerald Robinson as he learned his punishment and was taken away in handcuffs.

The victim, Sister Margaret Ann Pahl, was found stabbed and strangled in the chapel of the Toledo hospital where they both worked.

Alabama fire officials are investigating another rural church fire. The 15th in the state since February. They say they don't know yet if it's an accident or a possible copycat of an arson spree earlier this year. Three college students have been charged with those fires.

And a developing story in Kentucky. A grand jury today indicted the state's governor, Ernie Fletcher, on misdemeanor charges, accusing him of illegally rewarding political supporters with state jobs since taking office two years ago. Fletcher's spokesman says that the governor's office would release a statement today -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Zain, thanks for that.

Let's go to up to New York and Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, Senate leaders announced they have reached a deal on an immigration bill that would give millions of illegal aliens a chance to become American citizens. That's amnesty. But it looks like the big fireworks are yet to come. The two houses of Congress have to reconcile two very different pieces of legislation. The House bill which triggered those nationwide protests would make it a felony to be in this country illegally.

You see, there's already laws against being in the country unless you're a citizen or here on a visa, but we don't bother to enforce those. So we're going to pass some more laws as a way of addressing this problem.

Makes little sense to me.

The Senate bill creates a path for illegal aliens who have been in the country for more than five years, people who have been breaking the law for more than five years, to earn citizenship. And it would create a guest worker program. That's amnesty. Senate leaders say they'll try to pass their immigration bill before Memorial Day.

So the question is: What should the compromise be between the Senate and the House when it comes to immigration reform?

E-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile.

It's fascinating to me, Wolf, that we have two houses of Congress who are spending their time legislating about immigration when there are laws on the books concerning who is allowed to come into the country and under what circumstances. And we just simply choose to ignore those laws. And we'll spend our time and our taxpayers' money passing some more laws.

You'll have to explain that to me over lunch some time.

BLITZER: Maybe dinner we'll do it. Lunch and dinner.

CAFFERTY: There you go.

BLITZER: It takes a long time to explain what's happening here in Washington.

Jack, thank you very much.

And if you want a sneak preview of Jack's questions, plus an early read on the day's political news and what's ahead right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, sign up for our daily e-mail alert. You're going to want to do this. Go to CNN.com/situationroom and you can do it.

Up ahead, President Bush back in the hurricane zone, this time for a celebration. We're going to have details of his college commencement speech and what he's urging grads to do right now.

Also, Americans vote her most popular in the Bush administration. We're going to show you why you're seeing -- you're going to be seeing a lot more of the first lady in the coming months.

Plus, a new way to help people stop smoking. It's a pill that's very different from anything we have seen before. Ali Velshi will have "The Bottom Line."

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Bush gives a pep talk to students about to enter the so-called real world. Today the president gave the commencement address at the Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College. Mr. Bush told the graduating students their efforts to rebuild their lives after Hurricane Katrina are an inspiration to the nation.

Meanwhile, the president's wife also is talking with students today. The first lady, Laura Bush, spoke at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee. Mrs. Bush told students about the happiness that comes with generosity. She also asked them to forsake a vacation and help out in the Gulf Coast recovery instead.

As the first lady travels, is there a difference between how she's received versus the reception her husband gets?

Let's bring in our chief national correspondent, John King. He's got a closer look at this -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's no secret, and we're seeing more evidence of it by the day that many Republicans think, keep a safe distance from the struggling president this election year. But requests for the first lady to campaign are pouring in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's give a warm welcome to Congressman Christopher Shays and Mrs. Laura Bush.

KING: There's no question this member of the Bush family is welcome on the campaign trail, and for good reason. First lady Laura Bush remains popular as a time her husband is not. A 61 percent approval rating in a new CNN poll, compared to 34 percent for the president. That translates into a higher profile on the campaign trail, especially in places where the president's standing is especially poor.

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: Here in Connecticut, there are few advocates for young people as tireless as Congresswoman Johnson.

KING: Her midterm campaign stops so far include Pennsylvania, Maryland, Colorado, North Carolina, New Mexico, Missouri, Connecticut, Ohio and Kentucky. Her fund-raising totals nearing the $7 million mark.

Amy Walter tracks congressional races and says, more often than not, the first lady's stops are in suburban areas where moderate swing voters, especially women, are mad at the president yet critical to Republican chances this year.

AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: So the person you want to bring up to help you with fund-raising from the White House, somebody who gets a lot of attention, brings the access and the star power of the White House, but doesn't bring the political baggage is the first lady.

KING: Still, Mrs. Bush is not immune from the administration's political slump. That 61 percent approval rating now is down 20 points from January. But her standing is still much higher than the president or vice president. And so Democrats expect to see more of her in key races.

LISA CAPUTO, FMR. HILLARY CLINTON PRESS SECRETARY: Republican operatives are now probably looking at her approval ratings and saying to themselves, well, how can we start to use her out on the campaign trail to help us in areas of the country where we're in trouble?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: But while there are no doubts at all, Wolf, that she is a great asset on the campaign trail, there are limits. The biggest challenge for the Republican Party, getting disillusioned conservatives to vote this November. The challenge of rallying the GOP base late in the campaign will be the president's job, not the first lady's.

BLITZER: And you mentioned these two moderate Republicans, Chris Shays and Nancy Johnson, both from Connecticut. They have often gotten a lot of support from Democrats over the years, but they're going to need a lot of help, especially in those northeastern states, the moderate Republicans who are up for reelection.

KING: And the president did go up for Congressman Chris Shays, who many Republicans say showed some courage. He sparred with the White House from time to time, but the president did go up there to help raise money.

They want the money from the president. The question will be, do they want him on the campaign trail come September, October, November? I don't think you'll see a lot of the president in Connecticut, up in New England, upstate New York, where there are some endangered Republicans in trouble.

The president not welcome there right now. And you're right, those people need Democrats, Independents, moderates, swing voters, and the president's in tough shape, very tough shape with them right now.

BLITZER: John King, thanks for that report.

Coming up, we're going to be having more on the politics of everything that's going on. We're also going to be watching what is happening with the NSA story that's emerging today.

Hoping to leverage the power and popularity of the Web site MySpace.com, the Republican Party has now launched a social networking hub of its own. Its name, MyGop.com. But will it help mobilize new Republicans? Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is watching that -- Jacki.

SCHECHNER: Wolf, this is Brian. And he has a MySpace.com account. He also runs a MySpace.com community of some 14,000 Republicans.

He tells me today he's using the new MyGop.com because it's one thing to have people talking about what they believe in and it's a whole other thing to motivate them to do that. And the idea behind MyGop is to get people to do stuff like host house parties, or to raise money, or to registers volunteers, or register voters. These are all action items.

This is exactly what the GOP want. They tell me this is not the idea of replacing MySpace. It's just an action item hub to supplement something like MySpace.com.

We spoke to the DNC, and they say they think this is a good idea, but they think the GOP going about it the wrong way. They think it's too top-down, not grassroots-up. But at the same time, Wolf, they tell me they are working on a very similar project they plan on rolling out in the next couple of months.

BLITZER: Jacki, thanks for that.

Coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM, new controversy over domestic spying. We're going to talk with an expert of the National Security Agency. The investigative journalist James Bamford, he's standing by live to join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, a tale of two brothers. One fighting illegal immigration in Congress, the other trying to save the lives of immigrants themselves.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Let's go up to New York. Ali Velshi has got "The Bottom Line."

(BUSINESS REPORT)

BLITZER: Coming up, they are your phone calls, but to protect your from terrorists, should the federal government be allowed to keep track of whom you talk to? I'll speak live with James Bamford, who knows the NSA, the National Security Agency, well, has written two books on the subject.

And chopper down. Could anyone survive a harrowing accident like this? We'll explain what happened.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Back now to our top story, the government -- the report that the government spy agency is collecting phone records of millions of Americans. President Bush says your privacy is being protected, but if it chooses, what could the government learn about you?

CNN's Brian Todd joining us from the newsroom with more on this part of the story -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, he published this almost 60 years ago. But George Orwell's book "1984" is being talked about a lot right now with this report about the NSA. We asked experts if the big brother scenario is coming to pass.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice over): Finding out who you call, when, and for how long, an ominous intelligence-gathering capability. At the National Security Agency, experts say that's just the beginning.

GEORGE BAURIES, FMR. FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: So they actually have the ability to collect massive amounts of data.

TODD: George Bauries is a former FBI counterterrorism official who also worked with the NSA in counter-intelligence operations. Bauries says the NSA can also collect your credit card and ATM records, airline and other travel data, medical and educational records.

BAURIES: They don't disclose exactly where it's stored, how it's stored. It's just that all the data is stored and that anything that would be sent electronically...

TODD: And so-called spyware you might use to protect your information is, Bauries says, meaningless.

BAURIES: Any locks on files, any method of encryption, any of the over-the-counter programs that are openly available to the general public, that would not have the ability to stop the NSA.

TODD: That's what Bauries says the ancient agency is do.

How often does it tap into that information? Contacted by CNN, an NSA spokesman wouldn't respond to that question, or Bauries' claims, sticking to a statement reading, in part, "It would be irresponsible to comment on actual or alleged operational issues."

Both the NSA and George Bauries say the agency is extremely careful not to overstep the law if it feels it needs to monitor the content of a transmission. But privacy advocates say this is just too close to George Orwell's "Big Brother is watching you" scenario.

NANCY LIBIN, CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY: All of that information, the government could theoretically create a large database and digital dossiers, if you will, about your personal interactions, your social networks and really paint a very rich portrait of your personal life. (END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: How effective is all this data gathering in the war on terror? That's debatable, too. One former intelligence official says this capability has hurt al Qaeda, but he says the terrorist group has adapted to stay one step ahead, like using disposable cell phones and relying much more on human contact -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd, thank you very much.

The job of the super secret National Security Agency is to eavesdrop and collect data. But should it be doing that right here at home? Joining us now is James Bamford, who's written extensively about the NSA. His latest book is entitled "A Pretext for War: 9/11, Iraq and the Abuse of America's Intelligence Agencies."

Jim, thanks very much for coming in.

JAMES BAMFORD, AUTHOR, "A PRETEXT FOR WAR": My pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: Here is how had president explained what this whole uproar, the "USA Today" story, the database that's being collected, is about. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. BUSH: The privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities. We're not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans. Our efforts are focused on links to al Qaeda and their known affiliates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is the president accurate?

BAMFORD: Well, not according to the people I've talked to who worked at the NSA. It is mining through millions of communications of average Americans, not just the people who are communicating with al Qaeda.

In order to get a database of the people who are suspected of dealing with terrorists, they go through these massive millions of communications and then sift through who is calling whom, what time is the person calling, what areas of the world does the person call, how long is the duration of the call, what area codes or what country codes they're calling, what country codes and so forth. So it's a massive data collection campaign.

BLITZER: If it's going to prevent another 9/11, what's wrong with that?

BAMFORD: Well, you could use that excuse for anything. And I think it's gone well beyond usability, that phrase. I think we've got to start focusing on what the Constitution provides, which is freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. And I think, to a large degree, this is unreasonable. It's fine if you're using that technology to search communications outside of the United States. But Congress has never dealt with this whole issue of data mining through U.S. communications. And in addition to that, the NSA not only has the ability to data mine. They have the ability to eavesdrop on everybody's communications.

BLITZER: General Michael Hayden, who ran the NSA for years, is now up to become the next director of the CIA. He insisted today that whatever is going on is legal. It's been reported to the relevant members of Congress. The president basically said the same thing earlier today. Do you believe that this program is legal within the law?

BAMFORD: Well, I think this program is a legal. It's because there hasn't been a law that decided whether it's legal or illegal. We haven't tackled the whole issue of data mining through legislation at this point.

Based on what I know, it's illegal, basically, because you're targeting numbers attached to people, and then some of those people you start eavesdropping on their communications.

BLITZER: You're part of a lawsuit against the NSA, against the government because of the earlier warrantless wiretap program that was released.

BAMFORD: That's right. And that's the whole question with Michael Hayden. He's going from one agency, where there's enormous clout over his head as to whether what he was doing was legal or illegal. And a lot of people, including Senator Specter, judges on the FISA court, a lot of people in government think that what he was doing is illegal.

And before you take him from doing that job to putting him in charge of the CIA, which again has a lot of people who can spy domestically, I think you ought to decide what he was doing in the previous agency was illegal or legal.

BLITZER: You think he's qualified to be the CIA director?

BAMFORD: Well, technically, he's qualified. But the question is whether he's going to obey any rule that the president tells him. If the president tells him he wants to use CIA agents to spy domestically on American citizens, does he have the inner strength to say, "No, I'm not going to do it, because it's a violation of the law"? He didn't do that at the NSA. I don't think he'll do it at the CIA.

BLITZER: But at the NSA supposedly, all the lawyers at the NSA signed off on the warrantless wire tap program.

BAMFORD: Well, they could have signed off on it. That doesn't mean it's legal. You have judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court that quit the court because they thought it was illegal. They know a fair amount about the FISA court.

John Mitchell, former attorney general, went to prison. He thought what he was doing was legal.

BLITZER: Here's what Clark Ervin, one of our homeland security analysts, former inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, writes in his new book, "Open Target": "There are a number of terrorists already in America, doubtless, waiting for just the right moment to strike us again."

The theory, once again being that why not give up a little bit of our privacy if we're going to catch these bad guys?

BAMFORD: That's classic fear mongering. Listen, the real threat to the United States is cancer, heart disease, AIDS. Those are the areas where we should be focusing attention. That's where people are dying every single day. And we're taking money away from those areas and putting it into these largely useless antiterrorism programs. The whole electronic eavesdropping program has never produced one single arrest.

BLITZER: How do we know that? How do we know that it's largely useless? The president pointed out in his statement today, he said so far, we've been very successful in preventing another attack on our soil.

BAMFORD: Well, they haven't come up with any specifics. They came up with a couple generalizations back when the whole controversy of the electronic eavesdropping came up with.

And the main thing they pointed to was this guy that was going to take down the Brooklyn Bridge with his blow torch. I mean, is that what we're spending all this time, money, effort and eavesdropping on people all over the country to prevent something as obvious as that?

I think the money is being targeted more out of fear mongering and more out of threats that don't really exist than -- the money could be spent far better on real threats to America, which come from diseases and things that...

BLITZER: But you've got to admit the terror threat facing the country, that is a real threat.

BAMFORD: It's a threat, but you have to put it in context with the other threats facing the United States. And I think that's the problem. It's lack of context. And it's done largely political. I think there's been a large political effort of creating fear mongering among the American public to support the president and his administration.

BLITZER: Here is the argument that is made by analysts and inside, outside the government, that al Qaeda is a patient organization. They wait for years in order to plot and plan a major, major attack. They waited for years to do 9/11.

The next one, supposedly, is going to be bigger. It's going to include radiological devices, a nuclear device, some sort of container. That is -- that is what worries U.S. analysts on a day to day basis. BAMFORD: All right. Fine. But the problem is what they're doing is not effective. If the FBI -- what the FBI said after the revelations of the NSA domestic eavesdropping operation became public, the FBI -- the FBI agents that were interviewed said that that was useless. The information they were getting from NSA was distracting them from really looking at the real targets they were looking at. They were going and looking at people that had nothing to do with terrorism.

BLITZER: James Bamford is an expert on the NSA. A lot of us remember your book, "The Puzzle Palace", one of the definitive works on the NSA, years and years ago. Thanks for coming in.

BAMFORD: My pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: And still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, can they all just get along? That would be Democrats and Republicans hoping to compromise on immigration reform. How do they think they should -- how do you feel about coming to an accord on this subject? Jack Cafferty has your e-mail.

And it's a scene so violent you'd think no one would survive. We're going to tell you about a very disturbing crash of a Russian helicopter. Check this out. And we're going to tell you how many people survived. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: And this just coming into CNN. The U.S. Senate has now approved the president's proposal for tax cuts, a $70 billion package, earlier approved by the House of Representatives. The final vote in the Senate, largely along party lines: 54 in favor, 44 opposed. The bill approved. The president will sign it into law.

There will be continuation of some tax cuts for various individuals. The story we reported in depth yesterday. Not a big surprise in the U.S. Senate.

Let's check in with Zain Verjee once again at the CNN Center in Atlanta for a closer look at some other stories making news.

Hi, Zain.

VERJEE: Hi, Wolf.

Well, he continues to defy the world and gush red hot rhetoric against the United States. Iran's president now says he wants to talk things over. Today, in Indonesia, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says he seeks dialogue with the Bush administration over the nuclear standoff, and Mr. Ahmadinejad says his recent 17-page letter to President Bush is simply a way to spark discussions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I think we have opened a new atmosphere, a new chapter in the world. And those who want to make reforms, actually, they should have resolute (ph) talks about these problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: Gas may soon begin flowing again to the Palestinian territories. The Associated Press quotes a Palestinian financial official as saying President Mahmoud Abbas has authorized a multimillion dollar payment to the Israeli company that supplies the territories.

As we showed you yesterday, that company cut supplies, citing the Palestinians' unpaid gas tab, said to be in the millions of dollars.

And take a look at this, Wolf. This wasn't actually a stunt but a real life emergency when a Russian helicopter crashed into the sea. Look at this. It's pretty amazing, because officials say that all 13 people on board that accident survived the crash. One of them, though, died on the way to the hospital.

The accident happened as the chopper was practicing joint rescue exercises with Japan off a Russian island. Very lucky there for most of those people, Wolf.

BLITZER: Very lucky indeed. Amazing, amazing video. Thank you, Zain, for that.

Let's go up to New York and check in with Lou. He's standing by to tell us what he's got on tap at the top of the hour.

Hi, Lou.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Hi, Wolf. Thank you.

Coming up at the top of the hour, we'll have much more on the uproar over the government's tracking of millions of Americans' telephone records. And among my guests tonight, the chairman of the powerful Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Pat Roberts, and a leading Democratic member of the committee, Senator Ron White.

And of course, we'll be talking a great deal about that compromise announced today by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist on immigration reform, as they like to call it in the Senate, Wolf.

All of that coming up here at 6 Eastern on CNN. We help you'll join us. Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let me get a little preview, though, what you think of this compromise. Bill Frist, Harry Reid, they work out a deal in the Senate. It's going to allow, basically, 12 million or whatever number of illegal immigrants in the country, eventually over a number of years to apply for citizenship, be guest workers in this country. It's going to have to be reconciled with some very different positions by Republicans, largely, in the House.

What do you think of this compromise in the Senate?

DOBBS: I think that this Senate is going to cost their -- their colleagues in the house probably 15 to 30 seats, because they're ignoring the will of the people.

At a time when the American people want to see border security established, the Senate is dithering with immigration reform, so- called, and not enforcing existing law. And I believe that you will see the American people express themselves on that issue and rather strongly.

The Senate's idea of a compromise is to move McCain -- the McCain-Kennedy bill forward. And -- and the House is going to pay, the Republican House is going to pay a severe price for it, in my adjustment, at the polls.

BLITZER: Lou is going to have more on this story coming up in the next hour. Lou, thank you very much. We'll be watching.

DOBBS: Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Up ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, there are new developments in the crisis in Darfur and how it's affecting its neighbors. Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, is going to have an exclusive report. He's on the scene. You're going to want to see this.

And in our 7 p.m. Eastern hour, is blood thicker than a difference of opinion? Right now, the bond between two brothers is being stretched very thin because of a very profound difference over immigration reform. We'll tell you what's going on.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. There's a potentially significant new development in the Darfur crisis. An African Union official says a key rebel group that refused to sign onto a peace agreement last week is now reconsidering. Meanwhile, the crisis which the U.S. government calls genocide has spilled well beyond Sudan's border.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has an exclusive report from neighboring Chad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a dusty, crowded displaced persons camp in Chad, about 50 miles from the boarder with Sudan, Jan Egeland, the U.N.'s top humanitarian relief official, came to show the world how the problems of Darfur are spreading.

JAN EGELAND, U.N. HUMANITARIAN CHIEF: We're on the front lines of humanity here. It's very difficult to aid these people, and it's also very dangerous to aid these people. And I will now speak to their leader, and then we can walk a little bit around.

ROBERTSON: Fourteen thousand Chadians, all displaced inside their own country by Arab fighters crossing through Sudan, according to Egeland.

EGELAND: This problem has exploded from Sudan. It was the ethnic militias, probably the Arab ethnic militias, so-called Janjaweed.

ROBERTSON (on camera): From Sudan?

EGELAND: From Sudan who displaced all of these people.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In this camp at Gosbiada (ph), aid officials have a problem. There is not enough water, and they need to convince the families, many already displaced for the second time, to move on again.

EGELAND: I think they believe that we will indeed solve this for them. What we cannot resolve is security.

ROBERTSON: Chadian troops stand guard during Egeland's visit, but the area is so close to the border, Sudanese rebels seek sanctuary and support in Chad. While the Janjaweed, backed by the Sudanese government, appear to cross the border and raid villages with impunity.

MARC M. WALL, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHAD: Borders don't mean very much, though, in this part of the world. It's very hard to know who's Sudanese and who's Chadian.

ROBERTSON: So far, about 50,000 Chadians have been forced from their homes. And without a deterrent force, attacks continue.

(on camera) Security is also an issue for U.N. officials. Less than a week ago, an aid worker was shot in broad daylight on the street of a town normally considered relatively safe. Her vehicle was stolen. She's in critical condition in a medical facility in Paris.

(voice-over) In the same village, Egeland also visited a refugee camp crammed with Sudanese families, many who fled across the border from Darfur more than two years ago, an indication of the complexity of the aid problem here. Refugees, displaced people, and locals all compete for the same resources.

A quarter of a million Sudanese are taking refuge in Chad, and despite massive shortfalls in funding this year, according to Egeland, they are getting regular aid handouts.

(on camera) This is where the food distribution happens. There's lentils here, fortified soy here, salt in this one, sugar in this barrel, oil over here. The big difference here is that the Darfurian refugees get this food aid. The internally displayed Chadians from inside of Chad don't get food handouts.

(voice-over) It's not that aid officials won't feed them. They will. But in Gosbiada they want to help the Chadians displaced persons camp to move somewhere more sustainable. And feeding them, they fear, will make them stay. EGELAND: Our main problem for the refugees is funding. For the internally displaced, it's security, it's reaching them, it's much more a group which is in flux, really, as they are fleeing within their own country.

ROBERTSON: And that's what Egeland came here to spotlight.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Gosbiada, Chad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: What a heart wrenching story. Our thanks to Nic for going to the frontlines and watching what's going on.

Up next, a House bill would crack down on illegal immigrants. The Senate bill would give many of them a chance at citizenship. What kind of compromise can be reached? Jack Cafferty has your e-mail.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Some of the most popular items on CNN.com right now. One of the most popular items in THE SITUATION ROOM, Jack Cafferty. He's on right now, as well -- Jack.

CAFFERTY: Yes, yes, yes, yes. We got a lot of mail today. Everybody is pretty steamed at the government for a whole bunch of different reasons.

Senate leaders say they've reached a deal on an immigration bill that would give millions of illegal aliens a chance to become citizens. That's called amnesty. The question is what should the compromise be between the Senate and House versions of the immigration reform bill? The House passed a bill saying that it's a felony to be in this country illegally.

Neither one of them had to pass any bills. We have laws on the books that apply to illegal immigration. We just choose to ignore them in this country. Here's the e-mail.

George in Florida: "No compromise, no amnesty, no talk until the border is secure."

Steve in Phoenix: "No one is talking about enforcement. Until the punishments for employers are harsh, the flow of illegal immigrants will continue. When there is a mandatory six-month jail sentence for those employing illegal aliens, things might change."

Bernie in Huntington Beach, California: "Here's the compromise voters can exercise in November. Vote against any U.S. senator who votes in favor of the Senate's immigration bill." That's the amnesty bill. "Vote for any member of Congress who votes in favor of the House's immigration bill. Amnesty, no; border security, si."

Kay: "They should quit this phony debate and enforce the laws on the books. All of them are cowards and afraid to do the right thing."

Fernando in Richardson, Texas: "They don't need a compromise. The Democrats need to walk out of Congress and not return until they have a majority. Congress is broken and this Congress steals every time they meet."

And Helen in Lunenburg, Massachusetts: "Compromise Immigration Reform Bill: Both sides of Congress should agree to go home and never come back."

I like that idea.

BLITZER: You say we got a lot of mail. Give our viewers a sense of what that means.

CAFFERTY: It's in the thousands. It's in the thousands. And people are...

BLITZER: And you think people are -- most of those people are angry at the federal government?

CAFFERTY: They're mad about the spying stuff that's going on, and they're made about trying to, you know, create amnesty for 12 to 20 (sic) illegal immigrants in this country, so big business can hire them at cheap chump wages.

BLITZER: All right, Jack. See you in an hour. Lou Dobbs standing by to take over -- Lou.

DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much.

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