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The Situation Room
Bush To Deliver Border Security Speech; Minutemen Makes Case For Illegal Immigration Crackdown; Michael Hayden Holds Third Day Of Hearings Amid NSA Controversy; Kyle "Dusty" Foggo's Home Searched; John McCain and Jerry Falwell Team Up; Comparing George W. Bush and Bill Clinton; Giuliani Subject Of New Documentary Critical Of His Leadership Before 9/11
Aired May 12, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you Ali.
And to our viewers, you are in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, immigration on the front burner. President Bush decides to take the issue in primetime. It's 4 p.m. here in Washington, where advocates of tighter border security are on the march.
Also this hour, a developing story. Federal agents search the home and office of a former CIA official. He's under investigation in a corruption case that brought down a U.S. Congressman. We're going to examine the web of officials and the accusations.
And George W. Bush versus Bill Clinton. Our brand new poll asks Americans to compare their presidencies. We will bring you all of the eye-popping results. You are going to be surprised by some of the results.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The White House says it's crunch time on immigration reform. So President Bush is planning so set up a bully pulpit. We have new details this hour on the primetime immigration speech the president will deliver Monday night on Capitol Hill.
Today there's new movement on that issue now that the Senate has struck an immigration compromise. There are also some new fireworks, and federal officials are getting new heat from the citizens' border patrol group known as the Minutemen. Members rolled into the nation's capital today to press their case for cracking down on illegal immigrants.
Our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel is standing by.
Let's begin our coverage with our White House correspondent Elaine Quijano -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Wolf.
And the president's decision to make this primetime address on the issue of illegal immigration comes at a time when he has faced intense pressure from members of his own parties, conservatives who want him to get tough on border security.
Well, now a senior administration official says come Monday night border security will in fact be a main focus. This senior Bush aide saying the president will, quote, "make news."
Now, one option being discussed, Pentagon sources tell CNN, is having the federal government pay for an increased role of national guard troops along the border, perhaps several thousand troops. The senior official says the president has not made a decision yet, but this aide suggests that no decision will be made that jeopardizes either missions overseas or hurricane preparations.
Now why a primetime Oval Office address on this issue? The president, according to this senior aide, wants to cut down and cut through, rather, the debate and rhetoric over this very heated topic and deliver his message straight to the American people.
Parts of what he will say will in fact sound familiar for people following this issue, the components of comprehensive immigration legislation that he has laid out before. Those include border security, interior enforcement and a temporary guest-worker program.
He's also expected to reiterate a call to immigrants to assimilate if they in fact want to become U.S. citizens. Now, with a debate over this continuing to be quite heated, the senior aide is saying that the White House is cautiously optimistic about the prospects of immigration legislation on Capitol Hill. But that primetime address set to take place Monday night -- Wolf.
BLITZER: The notion of sending in the military to beef up border security along the border with Mexico, that would be a significant development. It's been pressed by a lot of the conservatives in the president's own party and some others as well. Is there a sense that the White House right now, that the president is going to authorize the Pentagon to do that?
QUIJANO: At this point that is certainly one of the options being discussed. And we have to tell you, it's very difficult to get a read on exactly what plans perhaps the president might be leaning towards right now. We've just mentioned one of those options for you here.
What I can tell you is that certainly this is a president who understands the very deep divisions that exist within his own party on this very difficult and emotional issue of immigration. This is an issue that, as the senior aide put it, the president feels this is ripe for presidential leadership on. So that is part of the reason why the president will be coming out Monday night to talk about it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Elaine, thank you very much. The president's immigration speech will be his 21st nationally televised primetime address since taking office. The last one was in December. Most have been State of the Union Addresses on remarks or remarks on Iraq or the war on terror. Only a handful have been on domestic issues including the economy, stem cell research and the Hurricane Katrina disaster.
CNN will bring you the president's Monday night address live. Lou Dobbs is going to be joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM when our coverage begins at 7 p.m. Eastern Monday night.
Now the latest on the immigration wars on Capitol Hill. Our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel is watching that as well -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as you know, the much anticipated immigration reform debate is supposed to get underway again in the U.S. Senate on Monday. And CNN has learned from congressional sources that Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser, was up here on the Hill this week with other senior administration officials, meeting with top Republican senators in Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader's office.
Now, in an interview earlier today with CNN Espanol, Senator Frist was asked about the possibility of putting additional national guardsmen along the border, and he signaled his support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: If it does take states calling upon their resources and it could be national guard to come in to secure those borders, I would support that. I think that needs to be the responsibility and the decision made by individual states.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: But in a separate interview with CNN Espanol, the Democratic Leader Harry Reid was highly skeptical.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: Now we have thousands and thousands guard and reserve troops in Iraq, and now we're going to ask them to go to the border, I don't think they are able to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: But later in the afternoon, Senator Reid seemed to soften that skepticism and said that he was glad that the president was addressing this issue, although he wasn't sure if that was necessarily the right way to go.
According to a top aide to a senior Republican, who is opposed to the comprehensive approach that is being put forward by the Democrats and by some Republicans, he said -- he put it this way, Wolf, he said that national security is one way to help the amnesty go down. In other words, it's a way to kind of take the bitter medicine, help put that bitter medicine down your throat.
In fact, this same aide said that national security is really -- or putting national guardsmen on the border is really only a temporary solution, and that this is something that's going to have to be addressed in a more thorough way in weeks to come -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Andrea, thanks very much.
A national group that organizes armed citizen border patrols is here in Washington, D.C., today, capping a 10-day cross country tour. But 80 supporters of the Minutemen gathered near the Capitol, holding signs that read stop illegal immigration now. They support the House's get tough approach to illegal immigrants. They are not thrilled with the Senate compromise.
About 50 feet away, demonstrators took part in a counter rally. They chanted immigrants stay, minutemen go. The two groups were separated by police.
Another flash point here in Washington, today the White House says it's 100 percent behind the president's choice to be the new CIA director, that would be General Michael Hayden. He's holding a third day of meetings with senators amid new controversy hanging over his nomination. Hayden is facing questions about the report that the National Security Agency is collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. Hayden used to oversee the NSA surveillance program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: He's going to have to explain what his role was to start with. Did he put that program forward? Whose idea was it? Why was it started? He knows that. He welcomes those questions. And he knows that he's not going to be confirmed without answering the questions. Whether that will be a complicating factor or just a factor remains to be seen.
GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: I'm not going to comment on the article that appeared in "USA Today" yesterday. Let me say once again, though, everything that the agency has done has been lawful. It's been briefed to the appropriate members of Congress, that the only purpose of the agency's activities is to preserve the security and the liberty of the American people. And I think we've done that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The new poll taken overnight shows 63 percent of Americans say it's acceptable for the NSA to collect phone records if it's part of the broader war on terror, 35 percent say it's unacceptable. "The Washington Post" ABC News poll also asked if it is right or wrong for the news media to disclose that program. Fifty-six percent say it's right, 42 percent say it's wrong.
Now, there's a developing story we're following here in Washington. It involves a former CIA official and a corruption probe. The FBI today searched the home and office of the agency's former Executive Director Kyle "Dusty" Foggo. That would be the No. 3 official over at the CIA.
Our senior national correspondent John Roberts is watching this story for us. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
What's the latest, John?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Wolf.
Well, this would seem to be a significant development into what the FBI has described as the investigation into, quote, "outstanding issues" surrounding the Duke Cunningham bribery investigation. You know, Duke Cunningham, former congressman from California, spending eight years in jail now for excepting $2.4 million in bribes.
The FBI has reason to believe that some other people may be involved in this, either directly or peripherally. And they are looking down those avenues. To that end, they executed search warrants today on the home of Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, as you said, executive director of the CIA, the number three there.
BLITZER: We have some live pictures, by the way, that are still coming in. That search continues at his home. We can show our viewers those live pictures.
ROBERTS: Our people on the scene say that it is pretty much in the wrap-up phases here. They've been there since probably about 11:00 or 11:30 this morning. They're also executing search warrants, the FBI together with the Inspector General's Offices of the CIA, on Foggo's offices at the headquarters there in Langley.
And what they are trying to find out is was there anything improper in the awarding of a contract to deliver water and other household items to CIA operatives in Iraq and other war zones like Afghanistan.
Was there anything improper in the awarding that contract to a company with ties to a fellow named Brent Wilkes, who is described as a long-time, almost life-long friend of Dusty Foggo's, who was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Duke Cunningham case. So you've got these two individuals, the CIA, this whole things revolving around these outstanding issues in the Duke Cunningham case.
There's also allegations that Wilkes may have been involved in procuring prostitutes in limousines for Duke Cunningham, so the FBI, the CIA, the IRS, the Defense Criminal Investigative Service and the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Diego trying to piece together who knew, who was doing what and see, first of all, if there was anything improper in the awarding of these contracts.
The CIA, speaking on behalf of Foggo has said, no, there was nothing improper in the awarding of the contracts. And some people have wondered well, what does Porter Goss have to do with all of this? Intelligence sources are saying that contrary to some reports in the past, that Foggo and Porter Goss are not friends. They had only met twice before, once when Goss was the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and then once for a job interview.
But what is interesting is that Goss obviously thought enough of this guy and was impressed enough with him that he plucked him from relative obscurity at the CIA and made him the number three. So see where this goes, but it's interesting also.
BLITZER: But there's no indication that Porter Goss' decision to resign is directly connected to this scandal?
ROBERTS: No, no indication of that. But it makes -- it has some people's tongues wagging, this idea that Foggo announced that he was resigning on Monday. And here it is, four days later and they are searching his home and his office.
BLITZER: I'm sure there's a lot more to the story. We'll continue to watch it.
ROBERTS: No question. Thanks.
BLITZER: John, thanks very much. John Roberts reporting.
Ali Velshi is following a developing story in a refinery fire. What are you picking up, Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: It's in Wynnewood, Oklahoma, outside of -- about an hour and 10 minutes from Oklahoma City. Wynnewood, Oklahoma, and it's a refinery that is on fire. Fifty thousand barrel per day refinery. It is privately owned. They make crude oil into gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, asphalt, liquefied petroleum gas. All that kind of stuff is made at this Wynnewood refinery.
It's -- you know, we had a lot of problems with this last summer. Last May is when we started getting refinery outages and fires across America which contributed to the fact that we don't produce enough gas out of these refineries and that's what you're seeing here, a refinery fire in Oklahoma.
Apparently no injuries right now. Being reported by our affiliate WKTV in Oklahoma. No injuries in connection but the fire department is putting water on this fire and trying to get local assistance to put it out -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We're watching the live pictures. We'll continue to watch it. Ali, thanks very much for updating us on that.
Another story we're following, within the last hour, attorneys for the convicted 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui filed an appeal with a federal court in Virginia. Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is standing by with details -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, Moussaoui now wants to appeal the decision made last week that denied him the opportunity of a new trial. This was the motion from last week that Moussaoui had filed to withdraw his guilty plea. What he'd said in that is a lot of what he said on the stand was in fact complete fabrication and that he wanted to start all over again. Well, that motion was quickly denied. Now Moussaoui's attorneys have given this notice of appeal that they are taking this to the Fourth Circuit. We have posted this all at CNN.com/situationreport -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thanks for that.
Let's bring in Jack Cafferty. He's standing by, as he always is, in New York with "The Cafferty File." Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, the Pentagon is considering sending National Guard troops to the border with Mexico, where tens of thousands of illegal aliens enter this country every year. Defense Department officials are looking into different options for using the military soldiers along the border, if you will.
No details yet on the strategy, but it's a clear indication that maybe President Bush, ahead of his primetime speech Monday on immigration, is beginning to get the message that the American people are fed up with not securing this country's borders.
Currently the military plays a limited role along the borders although some armed forces have been used in the past against drug traffickers. Arizona's governor says the military help is what she has been asking for. The governor of Texas says he likes the idea.
Here's the question: Should National Guard troops be used to secure the Mexican border. E-mail us at caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks for that.
And to our viewers, if you want a sneak preview of Jack's questions plus and early read on the day's political news and what is ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM, you can sign up for our daily e-mail alert. Just go to CNN.com/situationroom.
Coming up, an odd couple. Senator John McCain and the Reverend Jerry Falwell team up tomorrow. We'll take a closer look back at the political tensions between them and what they hope to accomplish by burying the hatchet.
Plus, the fuss over impeachment. We'll tell you what House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi is now saying about threats to impeach the president if the Democrats become the majority.
And Howard Dean in the headlines again. We're going to tell you why. Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: New polls out today show Senator John McCain is the GOP presidential frontrunner in four states. The American Research Group survey shows McCain is far ahead of other possible Republican candidates in his home state of Arizona, as well as in Michigan, New Mexico and Utah.
McCain's White House ambitions help explain why he's making nice with the Reverend Jerry Falwell. McCain gives the commencement address at Falwell's Liberty University in Virginia tomorrow.
Our chief national correspondent John King takes a look at this odd political pairing -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a commencement speech to the Liberty University class of 2006 but for Senator McCain and Jerry Falwell, the focus is just as much on campaign 2008.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The old warrior of the Moral Majority is looking to shape the next presidential campaign, and striking what to many is a surprising alliance.
REV. JERRY FALWELL, PRESIDENT, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: For those of us social conservatives, he, at this moment, is by far the strongest candidate we could field against Hillary Clinton.
KING: He is Arizona Senator John McCain. The same John McCain who lashed out at Falwell six years ago, as his 2000 presidential campaign faltered.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance.
FALWELL: I paid no attention to it then. And when we sat down last year in his office, it was as if it had never been said.
KING: Moving on includes McCain delivering the commencement address at Falwell's Liberty University, where young evangelicals are urged to be active in politics. No outright endorsement yet, but Falwell is helping McCain arrange other appearances before conservative groups and offering to help travel with the senator to help heal the wounds of campaign 2000.
FALWELL: My guess is it will take him about six months of sincere communication with people in the religious right on certain platforms to put that all to rest.
KING: It is a risky choice for Falwell, a test of his influence a quarter century after the moral majorities heyday. But it's clear he relishes being back in the game and thinks the risks of a less tested Republican nominee are far greater.
FALWELL: Well there's no question in my mind that Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic candidate. She is going to have to shoot Bill or something not to be.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KING: For the self-styled straight talker McCain the risk is to be seen as pandering to the Christian right, but the senator says too much is being made of this, that his peace with Falwell is simply proof he holds no grudges and wants to reach out to all wings of the Republican Party -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John King reporting. Thanks, John.
And another McCain commencement address is also causing somewhat of a stir. The senator is due to speak to graduates of the New School University in New York City next Friday. But hundreds of students and faculty members are protesting because of McCain's conservative stance on abortion and other issues. And they are upset with the New School President Bob Kerrey, who is McCain's former Senate colleague. Bob Kerrey, the former Democratic senator from Nebraska.
On our political radar this Friday, the House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi is telling colleagues and activists that she will not pursue impeachment proceedings against President Bush, if her party wins control of the House.
Pelosi sent out an e-mail on that subject to supporters and others last night. Pelosi is trying to cool the uproar caused by some other Democrats who are threatening to take up impeachment if Democrats are victorious in November. Some Republicans have been playing the impeachment threat up in an effort to rally the conservative base.
The new White House Press Secretary Tony Snow appears to be getting off to somewhat of a shaky start at his new job. Snow held the informal morning briefing, known as the gaggle, in his office instead of in the briefing room in the West Wing of the White House. Reporters complained it was crowded. They couldn't hear him. Monday's gaggle will be back in the briefing room.
Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean has ticked off some gay rights activists. He mischaracterized the party's platform on gay rights in an interview courting evangelicals. Dean said the platform defines marriage as between a man and a woman, but it doesn't. Dean later corrected himself, but the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force still wasn't pleased. It gave back a $5,000 donation from the DNC.
Still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the Minutemen march on Washington. It's the latest skirmish in the battle over immigration. And it's smack in the middle of today's "Strategy Session."
Plus, political fall-out from the government's secret program to keep tabs on your phone calls. I'll talk to our political strategist Paul Begala and Terry Jeffrey. They are standing by live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
More political fall-out today from the report this week that the government is keeping tabs on your phone calls. Plus, the battle over immigration reform heats up in advance of President Bush's prime time speech Monday night.
Joining us now in today's "Strategy Session" to talk all about this, our CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist Paul Begala and Terry Jeffrey. He is the editor of "Human Events."
Smart strategy, Paul, for the president to go out Monday night, deliver this speech on immigration reform to make sure he's got his party basically behind him?
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: If he can unite his party, it's a good political strategy. But his position seems to me -- and Terry can say it better -- it seems to divide conservatives. He's for basically Ted Kennedy's position on what conservatives call amnesty. I think it's not amnesty. But amnesty, they call it, for illegal aliens.
What is interesting for me, though, is that there is no news in this. The president's position on immigration...
BLITZER: There might be some news. If the president announces he's going to deploy National Guard troops to the borders with Mexico, thousands of troops, which a lot of his conservative base would be thrilled if he were to do that, that would be news.
BEGALA: It would be. But the question is that responding to some immediate crisis or instead to his poll numbers? I suspect the latter. And I'm going to accuse the president of the United States of contemplating moving troops around at a time of war, when we're at war 6,000 miles away, to boost his poll numbers.
Because there is no immediate -- the border today is just as porous as it was the day he came into office. It was porous then, it is porous now. If he starts committing troops, when our guard and reserves are already overstretched by his foolish war in Iraq, then I think he has done a terrible thing. And it is a big mistake.
TERRY JEFFREY, HUMAN EVENTS EDITOR: Can I ask Paul a simple question? Yes or no, do you think troops should be deployed to the border to stop the flow of illegals?
BEGALA: No, no.
JEFFREY: So people should keep coming?
BEGALA: We should do other things, but we have -- our guard and reserve where are you going to get them from? Our guard and reserve are being shot to ribbons right now in Iraq because of Mr. Bush's dishonest war. For him now, when his poll numbers are...
(CROSSTALK)
JEFFREY: Should we or should we not deploy troops at the border?
BEGALA: What point of no don't you understand?
JEFFREY: You say no, OK. Two things, Wolf... BEGALA: But listen -- no, no, why is the president doing it today, not five years ago?
JEFFREY: Hold on, hold on. Two things, deploying National Guard followed by military force at the border to make sure neither illegal aliens or potential terrorists can get across the border is good public policy because we do have a security problem. Admiral Loy, the deputy of homeland security secretary, last year told the Intelligence Committee they had reason to believe al Qaeda might try to come across the border. That alone justifies they clearly have a problem with illegal immigration.
Second, it is in fact excellent politics. It wouldn't just be conservatives who would stand up and cheer if the president did it. People all over this country would stand up and cheer. There's some talk in Washington that the president is considering it. The Department of Homeland Security has been talking to the Pentagon about what military assets can be used to secure the border.
If the president comes out with a plan and effectively says I have ordered Secretary Rumsfeld and Secretary Chertoff to come up with a strategy for securing the border by July 4, it will be a grand slam on policy and political grounds.
BEGALA: The problem is, George Bush is not you. You're a principled conservative, Terry. You actually believe that. And you would have done it five years ago, as soon as you got your hand off the Bible when you were sworn in as president, God forbid, right?
He doesn't believe this. If he did -- if our commander in chief thought we needed troops on the border, he would have deployed them there five years ago. But he didn't because he didn't think we needed it. Now he thinks perhaps that he may need it to shore up his poll numbers among conservatives. That's using the military for political purposes, which is I think a monstrous thing.
BLITZER: Let me just say, if the president were to deploy National Guard or reserve forces to the border, beef up border security, would the conservative base of the Republican Party go along with the guest-worker program that would allow 12 million or so illegal immigrants in this country eventually over 11 years to become citizens of the United States?
BEGALA: No, they wouldn't.
BLITZER: Because that is part of the package.
JEFFREY: I agree with you.
If -- actually, if the president comes out with a plan on Monday that seems like he's offering a quid pro quo -- "Look, I'm finally going to secure the border, but you have got to give my -- me my amnesty for as many as 12 million illegal aliens" -- it will look opportunistic. He will sound like the president Paul Begala says he is. And it will backfire. If...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Because that's the Senate compromise, as you know.
JEFFREY: Right.
BLITZER: The Senate language that Bill Frist endorsed, with Harry Reid, calls for this guest-worker program...
JEFFREY: Right.
BEGALA: Right.
BLITZER: ... eventually leading towards citizenship.
JEFFREY: Right.
Wolf, there's tremendous political potential upside for the president here, and tremendous peril. If he looks like he's basically siding with both the Republicans and the Democrats in the Senate to try and roll the House on an amnesty, and he's talking about potentially deploying troops at the border as a fig leaf or some kind of, you know, fake to the fullback when you throw the bomb to the -- you know, to the receiver running for amnesty down the sideline, it will be a political disaster.
He's got to prove to the country on Monday night he is serious about securing the border. And then he has got to follow through by actually taking the steps to secure the border. And he -- if he does that, it's going to be tremendous...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: I don't think there's any chance this president is going to back away from his guest-worker program.
BEGALA: I think not. I think, on that one, he has a firm position. And he seems to have conviction behind it.
Whether it is wise or unwise politically, he can't move off that now. His problem is credibility and competence. It's two problems. People don't believe him anymore.
I mean, I talked to an old friend of mine in Texas who used to be a very big Bush supporter. And he said: My problem is, I turn on the TV now, and I see George -- and he knows him well enough to call him by his first name.
He said: I just can't believe anything he says.
When his old friends in Texas are saying that, he's through.
BLITZER: If the president beefs up border security, whether deploying troops or some other way to the border, but allows the McCain-Kennedy version of this compromise basically to go forward, I assume it will pass in the Senate, relatively easily. Will it pass in the House of Representatives, as part of this conference committee report?
JEFFREY: First of all, I'm against it.
But if the president actually secures the border, he's going to have a lot more leverage over that conference committee. There are going to be Republicans from the House who are going to be absolutely opposed to amnesty. But his ability to get by them and actually get a bill back to the House with some kind of guest-worker program will be greater.
Conservatives will still oppose it. It's a bad idea. But Paul is right about one thing. The president has a credibility problem. And I think the border, more than anything else, symbolizes that credibility problem. He has got to secure it.
BLITZER: If the president signs immigration reform legislation into law, that's a political win for him, you think?
BEGALA: Well, it's hard to say.
He has -- I think Terry has got the right point. He has to rebuild his position with his base first. He's not going to persuade liberals ever. And he's dying among moderates and independents. So, I think their strategy seems to be, build the base up first.
The problem is, the troops thing looks like a stunt. If you want to secure the borders, you don't send a bunch of young men and women from the Guard to stand in 120-degree heat. You use technology, maybe even a fence. You could double the Border Patrol, like the Democrats have called for, for years. There are things you could do that...
JEFFREY: Well...
BEGALA: ... he has ...
BLITZER: All right.
BEGALA: ... opposed for years.
BLITZER: Let me just quickly get your thoughts on the NSA and the monitoring of the phone calls, millions of phone calls.
"The Washington Post"/ABC did an instant poll last night. And they asked this question: Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the NSA to collect phone records as a way to investigate terrorism? Sixty-three percent said it was acceptable. Thirty-five percent said unacceptable.
Is this a winning issue for this Republican administration, based on this initial preliminary poll, which was an instant poll?
BEGALA: It's certainly less disastrous than their other positions and policies. So, in that sense, it's good news for the White House.
The Bill of Rights never polls well. You ask people, you know, should Nazis be able to march in the Jewish town of Skokie, Illinois, they would all say no. Yet, the Constitution says that you have to allow them to, or on and on.
Civil rights never polls very well. But I don't think this is the sort of issue that can keep a Republican majority in place, not when we're losing soldiers in Iraq, not when we are paying three bucks a gallon for gasoline.
BLITZER: Are you comfortable with the program?
JEFFREY: It's legal. It's constitutional. It's smart.
Back in Jimmy Carter's presidency, he actually put bugs in people's houses without warrant. It was supported by the appeals court. The president has the power to do this for national reasons, not law enforcement reasons.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... foreign diplomats' houses.
JEFFREY: And that's what people in those -- no.
(CROSSTALK)
JEFFREY: It was American citizens and Vietnamese spies in the Truong case. Read it.
The courts have always said this is constitutional for intelligence gathering.
BLITZER: All right.
JEFFREY: The president has the power, not law enforcement. It's a different question.
BLITZER: Terry Jeffrey and Paul Begala, a serious, good discussion.
Thanks to both of you.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And happy birthday to Paul Begala. He turns 45 years old today.
BEGALA: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: In fact, a big poker party at the Watergate with hookers, Wolf. I know you will be there.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: We will... BLITZER: Up next...
(LAUGHTER)
JEFFREY: I'm not coming, Paul, but happy birthday.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: ... a new take on President Bush's political problems. Does he look better or worse in comparison to Bill Clinton, Paul Begala's former boss? We will unveil some interesting new poll numbers.
And, later, Rudy Giuliani on the silver screen. Will a new movie about the former New York mayor help or hurt his presidential prospects? It's "Giuliani Time" ahead -- here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: President Bush won the White House in part by running as an antidote to the scandal and the controversy surrounding the Clinton presidency.
Now, almost six years later, Americans are comparing the two presidents and their problems in our brand new CNN poll.
Let's bring in our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.
Some surprising results there, Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Indeed, there are.
How bad has it gotten for President Bush? So bad, it may be making his predecessor look better.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This year, the first of about 78 million baby boomers turns -- baby boomers turn 60, including two of my dad's favorite people, me and President Clinton.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): His dad may not be alone in that opinion, or at least one of those opinions. Asked their personal opinion of George W. Bush recently, the public was unfavorable, 57 to 40 percent. Their opinion of Bill Clinton, almost the reverse, 57 to 38 percent favorable. We asked people to compare the last two presidents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary....
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... comparing Clinton to George W. SCHNEIDER: Which president did a better job on the economy? Clinton, by a mile -- for many Americans, the '90s were boom years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he was president, my business did well and I made a lot of money. And, so, and I kind of miss that.
SCHNEIDER: Who related better to problems affecting ordinary Americans? Again, Clinton by a mile. He felt your pain.
After 9/11, national security became Bush's strongest issue. Who leads on that issue? Clinton by a nose. Why not Bush?
Now for a tough test, character.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ethics kind of took a side trip for eight years while he was in office.
SCHNEIDER: So, which president do Americans now consider more honest and trustworthy? A close call, but slightly more people say Clinton. The controversies over weapons of mass destruction and CIA leaks have taken a toll on President Bush's reputation. Could a wave of Clinton nostalgia be setting in?
QUESTION: Do you feel nostalgic for the Bill Clinton era?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was not the Bill Clinton admirer.
SCHNEIDER: Looks like people are divided about that, too.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Clinton divided the country. And so did Bush. So, who do people think divided it more? Bush, by a big margin, a divider, not a uniter.
BLITZER: Interesting numbers, Bill.
Let's switch gears for a moment. It's Friday. That means it's time for your "Play of the Week." Who is the winner this week?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the winner -- how is this for a winner? On Tuesday, David Heineman beat Congressman Tom Osborne in the Republican primary for governor of Nebraska.
Now, Osborne, the Hall of Fame football coach who led Nebraska to three national championships, is a living legend in that state. Heineman's chances of surviving as governor looked hopeless when Osborne got into the race. So, how did he Heineman do it? He vetoed two unpopular bills. One would have eliminated many rural and suburban school districts. Voters don't like losing control of their school districts. And the other bill allowed children of illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition at public colleges and universities. So, the reason for Heineman's defeat of Osborne, the man who has been called Nebraska's God? Shrewd politics -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And enough for him to get the "Political Play of the Week."
Bill, thank you very much -- Bill Schneider, part of the best political team on television -- CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM: President Bush spells out what he considers the main obstacle in Iraq. We're going to tell you precisely what he said. That's coming up.
Plus, Mr. Bush teamed up this morning with a number of former secretaries of state and defense -- among them, William Cohen. The former defense secretary joins us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM. That's coming up in the next hour.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Zain Verjee is standing by for a quick look at some other stories making news.
Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
President Bush says armed militia groups may be the biggest challenge facing Iraq's new national unity government. The president met today with current and former secretaries of state and defense, including Madeleine Albright and retired General Colin Powell.
They discussed Iraq and the situation in the Middle East. Mr. Bush says he's confident the Iraqi government will prevail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The main challenge is the militia that tend to take the law into their own hands. And it's going to be up for the government to step up and take care of that militia, so that the Iraqi people are confident in their -- in the security of their country. It's important to have a secure Iraq, in order for people to go about their daily lives. And we understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: The U.S. military death toll in Iraq now stands at 2,434.
Four Marines were killed yesterday, when their tank rolled off a bridge into a canal in Iraq's Anbar Province. The military says it was an accident.
More than 120 service members in Iraq are now U.S. citizens. They were sworn in at a naturalization ceremony today. The soldiers come from more than 18 countries.
A horrendous scene in southwestern Nigeria -- at least 150 people were killed when a ruptured gasoline pipeline exploded today. Villagers reportedly were collecting leaking fuel when it suddenly ignited.
Our Jeff Koinange is there. And we're going to bring you a full report from him next hour.
A discovery by U.N. inspectors is sparking new concerns that Iran may be concealing nuclear activities. Diplomats say the inspectors have found possible traces of near-weapons-grade uranium on nuclear equipment from a former research site in Iran. This comes as the European works on a possible offer to Iran.
It would essentially provide incentives to Tehran, if it stops enriching uranium and penalties, if it doesn't.
Former Mississippi Congressman Gillespie "Sonny" Montgomery has died after a lengthy illness. The conservative Democrat spent 30 years in Congress. A World War II veteran, Montgomery pushed through a new G.I. Bill that boosted military recruiting by offering education benefits to National Guard and reserve personnel. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bush just last year.
Yesterday, the House named a defense bill in his honor. Gillespie "Sonny" Montgomery was 85 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thanks for that.
In the wake of high-profile corruption convictions involving Congressman Duke Cunningham and lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the Federal Bureau of Investigation is taking the fight against public corruption online.
Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton, is standing by with more -- Abbi.
TATTON: Wolf, the FBI wants to make sure that, if a member of the public encounters public corruption or dishonesty in public officials, they know exactly where to go with the information.
They have launched this new Web site, reportcorruption.FBI.gov, that let you submit tips online. Now, you have always been able to give information to the FBI over the Internet. But this new site makes it more streamlined, so you can do it with just a couple of clicks.
The information given there will be reviewed on a daily basis by members of the corruption -- Public Corruption Task Force there. You can give as much or as little information as you like. It asks for things like middle name and even your e-mail address and other information, but an FBI spokesman tells me that tips can also be given anonymously -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Abbi.
Coming up, should National Guard troops be used to secure the Mexican border? Jack Cafferty stands by with your answers to his e- mail question.
And the controversy continuing over the NSA surveillance of Americans' phone records.
The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Peter Hoekstra, he is standing by to join us live right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check back with Jack for "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Wolf, the Pentagon is considering sending National Guard troops to the border with Mexico, where tens of thousands of illegal aliens enter this country every year.
That's our question: Should the National Guard be used to secure the Mexican border?
John writes from Las Vegas, Nevada: "Stopping new hires would be more effective and less expensive. And the resulting gradual attrition back to Mexico would be less expensive, less disruptive, and more humane than deportation."
Peter here in New York City: "Far too many people across this country would be thrilled to have troops on the border, stopping Mexicans from crossing. Maybe everyone just doesn't get it. This is a work force that positively affords us the way of life to which we have become accustomed. We need illegal Mexicans."
Dean in Newark writes: "Not a bad idea, but are there enough National Guard troops left on American soil to do the job?" -- there's a question -- "The Iraq quagmire continues to tie up our troops. What if Iran becomes a legitimate threat? What then?"
Andre in Minneapolis: "National Guard troops exist to protect their states. If they are needed to safeguard a state's common border with Mexico, so be it."
Corey in Boston: "No. It would be a waste of time and money."
Wayne in Lexington, Kentucky: "I have a suggestion to improve 'The Cafferty File.' Put the camera on Zain Verjee while Jack talks and comments and reads his e-mails."
This week on "IN THE MONEY," what are your options if you don't like your telephone company giving your personal information about who you call on your phone to a secret government spy agency? We're going to take a look at whether or not you have any legal options.
The Fed disappointed investors this week. The stock market headed south. We will talk to an expert about what may be next.
And Kinky Friedman, formerly of Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys, will tell us how he plans to save the great state of Texas if he's elected the next governor. He's going to be on the ballot. I hope he wins.
"IN THE MONEY" airs Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00. We invite you to join us then -- Wolf.
BLITZER: An excellent show, Jack. Thanks.
CAFFERTY: What do you think about that idea of improving "The File" by putting the camera on Zain?
BLITZER: I think it's an...
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: Not bad, right?
BLITZER: ... excellent idea.
But what do you think about the border with Canada, though?
CAFFERTY: The what?
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: The border with Canada.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: There she is.
BLITZER: Zain is going to Canada this...
VERJEE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Zain is going to Canada this weekend. You're talking about the border with Mexico. What about that...
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: You're going to Canada? You're going to Canada this weekend?
BLITZER: ... long, 3,000-mile border with Canada?
VERJEE: Yes. Yes. I decided I needed a holiday, Jack. So...
CAFFERTY: Yes. You don't take enough time off around here.
VERJEE: ... I'm going...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
VERJEE: I think putting -- I think putting the camera on me is a terrible idea, because I can't mess around up here when I'm not on camera, like listen to my iPod and drink some soda and go shop -- online shopping and, you know...
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: Yes, but, look, if the camera was on -- if the camera was on you when I was talking...
BLITZER: All right.
CAFFERTY: ... the listeners would be able to understand what was being said.
BLITZER: I think, Jack, you might be on to something.
VERJEE: No.
(LAUGHTER)
VERJEE: I don't think so.
BLITZER: Guys, we got to leave it there.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: We will continue -- we will continue this conversation.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM: "Giuliani Time," a new movie on the former mayor who is pondering a run for the White House, is it a P.R. boon, or is it a bust?
And more ahead on the immigration wars and the prospect of sending National Guard troops to the border -- we are going to have a live report from the Pentagon.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
After 9/11, Rudy Giuliani was hailed as a hero and as America's mayor. Now, as he considers a run for the White House, he's back in the spotlight, but not necessarily, this time, in a very good way. Giuliani is the subject of a new documentary critical of his leadership of New York before the 9/11 attacks.
Our Mary Snow is in New York. She has got the details -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the controversial documentary opened here in New York today. Some are comparing it to Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" that was so critical of the Bush administration. Others are praising the film, saying people should see it, especially if Giuliani runs for president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The honorable Rudolph Giuliani.
SNOW (voice-over): He has come to be known as America's mayor. Rudy Giuliani rose to national prominence for his leadership in New York on 9/11.
He's considering a run for the White House in 2008. Filmmaker Kevin Keating does not want to see him as president. He has come out with the documentary "Giuliani Time." Keating portrays Giuliani as an authoritarian while he was mayor.
KEVIN KEATING, FILMMAKER: I would characterize him as dangerous, dangerous to our constitutional rights, to our legal system.
SNOW: The film includes interviews with officials, like William Bratton, the former New York City police commissioner.
WILLIAM BRATTON, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: He does rule by intimidation, by fear. That's well known. And he delights to be known as a tough guy.
SNOW: The film highlights controversies that took place during Giuliani's tenure, such as police brutality, protests over a public art exhibit he called sick, and policies on welfare that came under fire.
Giuliani did not participate in the film and his office declined comment on it. New York Republican Congressman Peter King is among the Giuliani supporters in the film. King calls Giuliani a great mayor and says liberals will be on the attack.
REP. PETER KING (R-NY), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I mean, Rudy Giuliani is going to bring out all the Michael Moores of the world. And if we have Michael Moore on one side and we have real Americans on the other side, Rudy wins that fight.
SNOW: Former Democratic New York City Mayor Ed Koch praises the film, calling it a piece of history. He wrote a book called "Giuliani: Nasty Man," but voted for Giuliani twice. He predicts the film may have an unexpected result.
ED KOCH (D), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: If this film is seen in parts of the United States outside of New York City, it would actually bring in some supporters to clamor for Giuliani's brand and seek his election as president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Again, Giuliani's office declined any comment on the film, which will open in other U.S. cities later this month -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary Snow, reporting for us in New York -- Mary, thanks very much.
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