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The Situation Room
Senate Intelligence Committee Weighs Hayden Nomination; What Happened at Haditha?; Border Bounce for Bush; Bush Answers Questions on Immigration Plan, Iraq; Debate Swirls over "Da Vinci Code" Movie; Immigration Debate Tricky for Schwarzenegger; Heathrow Airport Expanded to Handle Double-Decker Planes
Aired May 18, 2006 - 16:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it's 5:00 p.m. here in Washington, where the CIA nominee gets a grilling. Senators asking tough questions about domestic spying and the interrogation of terror suspects. Are they getting the answers, though, they want?
It's 2:00 p.m. in Yuma, Arizona, where President Bush gets a firsthand look at the Mexican border. Does he now think it's a good place to put up a fence? We'll have an interview with the president. That's coming up.
And many will soon be lining up at the box office, but others are boycotting "The Da Vinci Code." What's all the controversy about? I'll ask the president of the Catholic University of America here in Washington, D.C.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Few doubt his qualifications. After all, General Michael Hayden used to head the top-secret National Security Agency. But that very background is one reason why some senators are now reluctant to see him leave the CIA.
The president's nominee has been facing tough questioning at his confirmation hearings today. Much of it concerning the domestic surveillance program he used to oversee over at the NSA.
Let's go live to our national security correspondent, David Ensor -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there were no fireworks, really, but a lot of tough questions. And it seems clear that the vote on General Hayden's nomination will not be unanimously in favor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ENSOR (voice over): From the start, some Democrats made clear they have doubts about confirming General Michael Hayden, who was the architect of the National Security Agency warrantless U.S. wiretap program and may have collected phone call records on millions of Americans.
SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Now, the question before us today is the nomination for the director of the CIA of General Hayden, who directed and vigorously defended this illegal program.
ENSOR: But in many hours of questioning, his critics laid few, if any, gloves on Hayden, who insisted that all NSA programs are legal, including the domestic surveillance.
GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: The White House counsel, the attorney general, the Department of Justice's lawyers, and my own lawyers at NSA ruled this to be a lawful use of the president's authority.
ENSOR: On the agency he will lead if confirmed, Hayden said it has become too much of a public political football in recent years.
HAYDEN: The CIA needs to get out of the news as source or subject and focus on protecting the American people by acquiring secrets and providing high-quality, all-source analysis.
ENSOR: One senator worried about Hayden, the obedient general, giving bad news to the president.
SEN. BARBARA MIKULSKI (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We get this so-called "Yes, sir" Mr. Slam-Dunk President, rather than speaking the truth to power even when it is difficult.
HAYDEN: Yes, ma'am. You've got my assurances to the best of my earthly and human ability.
ENSOR: To questions about whether a uniformed general should lead the civilian CIA, Hayden said he does not take orders from the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: But if the uniform should interfere with his ability to bond with the CIA workforce, Hayden promised he would "make the right decision" and retire from the military -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And we're now hearing, David, by the way, the vote, the confirmation vote, probably not going to take place until Monday or Tuesday at the earliest given some of the controversy that clearly erupted today.
David, thank you very much for that.
Another important story we're following right now coming out of Afghanistan. Zain Verjee is joining us from the CNN Center with a closer look at that -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, in 24 hours, in Afghanistan, about 100 people were killed. It's being called the deadliest violence since the overthrow of the Taliban back in 2001.
They appear to be making a comeback with a sequence of suicide bombings and ambushes across the country, including a car bombing in Harat that killed an American contractor, according to the U.S. embassy. And Canada is mourning the first combat death of a female soldier in that country's history. Officials say that she died fighting insurgents near Kandahar.
And Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, says the insurgents are being trained at religious schools in neighboring Pakistan and coming in to fight in Afghanistan. Pakistan has dismissed that allegation as baseless. Afghanistan and Pakistan share a mountainous border region where Pashtun tribes, they often sympathize with Pashtun insurgents in Afghanistan.
It's also believed that Osama bin Laden may be hiding in that border region.
There are new deaths and injuries from a fresh wave of violence in Iraq. This roadside bombing in Baghdad injured two policemen. Another in the capital killed seven people.
And the Pentagon is reported four U.S. soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb today, along with an Iraqi interpreter. An American sailor was also reported killed in fighting in Anbar Province.
And Al-Jazeera is airing video of a United Arab Emirates diplomat who was kidnapped in Iraq two days ago. In a separate statement, a group calling itself the Banner of Islam says it kidnapped the diplomat. The group is demanding that the UAE embassy in Iraq be closed and that an Iraqi TV station which broadcasts from Dubai be shut down -- Wolf.
BLITZER: That tension between Afghanistan and Pakistan clearly escalating. Two U.S. allies, Zain. We've got President Musharraf of Pakistan. He had some angry words with President Hamid Karzai, of Afghanistan. I interviewed both of them in recent weeks.
We're going to continue to watch the story. Something the U.S. clearly is very concerned about, this escalating violence in Afghanistan right now.
What happened at Haditha? Were U.S. Marines responsible for the death of unarmed Iraqi civilians?
Let's turn to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.
There's an update on this story, Jamie. What's the latest?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, "In cold blood." Those are loaded words, but they're ones that Congressman John Murtha used to describe what U.S. Marines did in killing civilians in a place called Haditha last November.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): It was questions first raised by "TIME" magazine, including this video from an Iraqi human rights group, that set off a criminal investigation into whether U.S. Marines indiscriminately killed 15 Iraqi civilians last November. The Marines first claimed the deaths were from a roadside bomb and then suggested the victims may have been caught in a firefight.
While the investigation is not complete, a prominent U.S. congressman who is also a vocal critic of the Iraq war says he's been told where the evidence is leading.
REP. JOHN MURTHA (R), PENNSYLVANIA: There was no firefight. There was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them. And they killed innocent civilians in cold blood.
MCINTYRE: In response, the Marine Corps has issued a statement saying, "There is an ongoing investigation, therefore any comment at this time would be inappropriate and could undermine the investigatory and possible legal process."
The civilians were killed after Marines from the 3rd Battalion 1st Marines went looking for the bombers who planted an IED that killed one member of their unit. Last month, three of their superior officers, including the battalion commander and two of his company commanders, were fired for lack of competence and assigned staff jobs at Camp Pendleton.
Murtha, a retired Marine colonel, insists his information comes from U.S. commanders who "know what they're talking about." And he says the death toll may be more than just 15.
MURTHA: They actually went into the houses and killed women and children. And there was -- there was about twice as many as originally reported by "TIME."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Sources close to the investigation say it's too soon to say if anyone will face criminal charges in this investigation, but that some of the Marines' initial account does not check out. As one source close to the investigation said, "When all of the facts are out, it doesn't appear this is going to be a good news story" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: What do we know, Jamie, about this human rights association that provided the initial video that got this whole story going?
MCINTYRE: Well, apparently, they have a fairly good reputation. They're fairly credible. They brought the information to "TIME" magazine. "TIME" magazine took it to the U.S. military. And it really wasn't until that point that military investigators began to consider that this could be something much more than first described.
BLITZER: Jamie, thanks for that disturbing story. Thank you very much.
Let's go back to New York. Jack Cafferty standing by with "The Cafferty File."
Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.
The jury in the Enron case resumed deliberations today. On trial here, the company's -- failed company's two biggest worms, the founder, Kenneth Lay, and the former chief executive, Jeffrey Skilling.
They're accused of lying about the condition of their company at the same time it was imploding, while at the same time selling more than $500 million worth of their own stock. When Enron collapsed in December of 2001, it was huge. One of the biggest corporate failures in American history -- $60 billion in market value disappeared over night, along with $2 billion in pension plans, and 5,600 people lost their jobs.
Skilling faces 28 counts of fraud, conspiracy, insider trading, and lying to auditors. Lay faces six counts of fraud and conspiracy. Both men could spend the rest of their lives in prison, assuming the jury does the right thing. And we hope they do.
These two clowns each spent a week on the witness stand testifying that they're innocent, insisting their optimism about this company was genuine at the time it was literally falling apart.
Here's the question: Should the jury, Enron jury, send Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling to prison?
E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/caffertyfile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jack. Thank you very much.
Up ahead, he's the Republican governor of a heavily Democratic and Latino state. We're going to show you how Arnold Schwarzenegger is walking a very fine line in the immigration debate.
Also, the world's largest passenger plane -- check this out -- landing in London. And CNN's Richard Quest is there to greet the plane. We're going to take you there, inside this new jumbo -- jumbo.
Plus, President Bush in a one-on-one interview with our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, on the border with Mexico. He'll talk about immigration, Iraq, his political capital, and more.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back.
President Bush is trying right now to keep the pressure on Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform, and he's doing it outside of Washington on the frontlines in the immigration wars. Today in Arizona, just a short while ago, Mr. Bush sat down with our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux. We're going to have that interview for you coming up shortly.
But first, is the president's stance on immigration giving him a bounce in the polls? We have some new CNN numbers that are just out.
Our senior national correspondent, John Roberts, is here in THE SITUATION ROOM with a closer look.
Hi, John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SR. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf. Good afternoon.
It's a slight bit of good news for President Bush, a modest uptick in his approval rating. The question, is it a trend or just a brief flirtation with resurrection?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice over): As he toured the border in Arizona, the president's new focus on immigration, it seems, was the springboard for his bounce, a two-point rise in his approval ratings, up to 36 percent now, from 34 percent two weeks ago. Following Monday night's speech, his numbers on immigration shot up 11 points to 36 percent, with just half the country now feeling negative about it. That's a huge improvement since we last asked in January.
AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: The fact that the president went on national television, told voters what he wanted to see, put himself sort of on the line there on an issue that he's felt very strongly about, I think that voters were responding to that.
ROBERTS: But he's still in trouble with conservatives who feel Monday's speech was a net loss for them. If they keep up the drumbeat of negativity on immigration, the president's bump could bottom back out.
And the big issues that voters really care about continue to hold the president down. Terrorism languishes below majority approval. Iraq remains in the low 30s doldrums. On the economy, the president is down another six points since March to 34 percent, a product, Republicans say, of high gas prices clouding the whole economy. And Americans don't seem to give the president much credit for handling that problem.
The slight increase in President Bush's overall approval has bolstered hope among Republicans that he could crawl back above 40 percent by the November election. One Republican strategist said we may have seen the bottom. But could it also be the dreaded dead cat bounce?
WALTER: So, he would have to lose even more support among Republicans right now to dip even lower. I don't see that happening right now. He may have stabilized for the time being.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Which for President Bush would be good news.
The NSA wiretapping program, by the way, produced some interesting answers. Half of Americans think that listening to suspected terrorists without a court order is wrong. And while two- thirds of respondents don't think that they haven't been wiretapped, about the same number do think the NSA has listened in on U.S. citizens who are not suspected of terrorism -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Is it fair to say, John, presidents always get a little bit of a bounce after a nationally televised primetime address?
ROBERTS: Usually just getting their face out there helps them out a little bit in the polls. But don't forget, this is still well within the margin of error, which was plus or minus three percent. So until he gets up above 37 to, you know, 38, 39 percent, if he can get that high, then we're not really going to know if this is just sort of margin of error in the polls or -- or if it's real.
BLITZER: I think it was 4.5 percent, this poll, the margin of error. But I'm going to double-check.
ROBERTS: I think it was plus or minus three.
BLITZER: We'll double-check. John, thanks very much.
ROBERTS: I'll put a buck on it.
BLITZER: All right.
Coming up, much more on the president's border visit. He sat down and talked with our Suzanne Malveaux. The entire interview, that's coming up next.
He's highly skeptical about the president's plan to deploy the National Guard to the border. We'll go live to Los Angeles for a look at the dilemma Arnold Schwarzenegger faces in the immigration debate.
Plus, controversy swirling as "The Da Vinci Code" prepares to open nationwide. I'll talk about it with the president of the Catholic University of America. He's standing by He's standing by to join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM. He's seen the film and we'll tell you what he has to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
We have done some extensive research on the margin of error in our polls. One dollar was wagered. John Roberts said that on the approval rating the margin of error was three percent.
ROBERTS: Plus or minus three percent.
BLITZER: I said 4.5 percent. We did several poll questions on that question. It was three percent. You are right.
One dollar.
ROBERTS: Ah, this is great. Thank you.
BLITZER: On the surveillance questions, it was 4.5 percent, the margin of error.
ROBERTS: A brand new buck. I usually don't get them like this. They usually have crayon written on them, little dust bunnies.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Three percent margin of error.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: We're doing this wagering as Father David O'Connell, the president of Catholic University is standing by to join us live.
Let's go to Ali Velshi in New York. He's got "The Bottom Line."
(BUSINESS REPORT)
BLITZER: How high will gas prices go? And how will it affect your summer travel plans? A new report says travelers may have to make some very tough choices this summer.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, has more -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Well, Wolf, high gas prices aren't stopping people from traveling, but the increase of number of people traveling is the lowest we've seen in four years.
Now, some interesting other numbers to note from this AAA report, that 37 million people will be traveling 50 miles or more on Memorial Day Weekend, and most of those by car.
Also, personal finances are of concern to people this year. Twenty-four percent said that was an issue for them. That's an increase of seven percent over last year.
Another thing to note is $3 a gallon seems to be the tipping point. That's the number at which some people say they would say canceling a trip.
Well, you can go online and find some information to help you make your trip a little more efficient, or at least to find out how much it's going to run you. AAA has a fuel cost calculator. I plugged in New York to California, for example, round trip. That's going to add about $600 to my bill. You can also going to gasbuddy.com, where they have a temperature gauge map of where gas prices are across the country. For example, it will tell you that the lowest average is in Missouri and the highest average is in Hawaii -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jacki, for that.
Coming up, the biggest passenger plane lands at Europe's busiest airport. We're going to tell you why this visit is such a big deal and how it might affect the way all of us fly one of these days.
And he used to pull off delicate stunts as an actor. But as governor, can Arnold Schwarzenegger pull off a new tightrope act between maintaining support from the Latino community and conservative Republicans when it comes to the issue of immigration reform?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
President Bush today toured a flash point in the immigration battle. In Arizona, he visited a stretch of the Mexican border which has been a target of illegal immigrants. There, the president spoke one-on-one with our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. President.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Suzanne, thanks.
MALVEAUX: I know, of course, we're at the border to focus on your comprehensive immigration reform plan. Your critics, and particularly those of your party, however, call this a publicity stunt. They say that the plan to move forward some 6,000 National Guard troops is really a political ploy to get them to sign on to the guest worker program and they're not buying it.
What can you offer members of your own party to convince them this is the right way to go?
BUSH: I can offer them a comprehensive strategy to get the job done. And when we add 6,000 border patrol agents to the border patrol that are patrolling up and down this vast border, we will have doubled the border patrol by -- since I've been the president of the Untied States. But until we get those additional 6,000 agents on, we've got to -- they've got to have help. And that's why the National Guard is necessary to help the Border Patrol do its job.
And secondly, anything to secure this border is going to require a comprehensive approach. I mean, comprehensive means more agents, more technology. You see lighting along here and fencing. And certain parts of the border will help to (ph) catch and release. But also, a temporary worker program.
We've got people coming here to work. And they're doing jobs Americans aren't doing. And instead of sneaking across, it seems like it makes sense to me in order to help our border patrol do their job, there's a rational way for them to come on a temporary basis, provided they pass a criminal background check.
MALVEAUX: Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner said earlier today, however -- and he's, of course, going to be ushering this process through the House -- that he simply says you don't get it, that they believe this is amnesty. That ultimately, they're not going to be able to sign off on this.
Is this designed in a way to provide political cover for you, to say, at least, to the American people, I tried?
BUSH: No. I want to get it done. I mean, I'm one of these kind of people that ran for office in the first place to get things done.
As you know, this is an issue I have been living with a long period of time as the governor of Texas. I understand immigration. And I know we've got to enforce our border, but I'm also realistic.
There are some -- look, amnesty to me means you're an automatic citizen. And I'm not advocating that. Some in -- some in the Democrat Party might be advocating that, but I'm certainly not.
On the other hand, I recognize there have been people here for a long period of time. And it doesn't make any sense to try to deport millions of people. And so there ought to be a way for people to pay a fine or learn the English language, and then get in the citizenship line, but at the back, not at the front.
MALVEAUX: A lot of American people see their top priority as Iraq.
BUSH: Yes.
MALVEAUX: And the majority of Americans have lost faith in that mission. How do you expect them to stay the course when there are Americans who are killed every day, 45 this month, and there is no clear end in sight?
BUSH: Well, you know, no question, Iraq has unsettled the American people. I understand that.
You know, people don't like war. And war -- this war is as brutal as other wars because we face an enemy that will kill, you know, innocent people in order to achieve an objective. And, you know, I'm also -- I don't believe Americans want us to cut and run either. I think they want us to succeed. And what Americans will see is a new government, a unity government emerging. What they saw last December, and admittedly, it seems like an eternity ago, were 12 million people saying, "We want to live in a free society."
MALVEAUX: When can...
BUSH: Hold on a minute please. And so -- and so what they're seeing is a political track taking place as well as more Iraqis taking the lead and providing security for themselves.
And what was the next question you were asking?
MALVEAUX: When can we see U.S. troops leave? Obviously, just yesterday...
BUSH: When the commanders on the ground say that the Iraqis are more prepared to take over more of the security needs. This -- the temptation, of course, is to do things for political purposes in America. I don't want to fight a war based upon politics or polls or focus groups. I want to win this war based upon a strategy that's working but also based upon -- and the military decisions being based upon the advice of General Casey, who's the leader on the ground.
MALVEAUX: But your own secretary of defense yesterday actually backtracked from what the Pentagon had hoped to say earlier that many troops, U.S. troops, a significant amount, would be out this year. I mean, how can the American people trust the assessment of this administration?
BUSH: That depends upon what the general says, Suzanne. If the generals say that we're able to fight with fewer troops, we'll fight with fewer troops. The point the American people have got to know is we're going to succeed. And we're not going to succeed by listening to the advice of some in Washington who say let's just pull out now.
The Iraqi people want a democracy. They've got a unity government in place. And it's in our national interest that we defeat al Qaeda in Iraq and at the same time help this country become a democracy.
MALVEAUX: Let's go back to immigration. There are a lot of people who listened to this debate and the fact that we focus on the southern border, Mexican immigrants. They believe that there are racial if not racist overtones in this debate.
There were a couple days ago when you said -- I'm quoting to you -- "we're not just going to discriminate against people." What did you mean by that, discriminate? Do you get a sense that there is racism that is creeping into this debate?
BUSH: I think it would be too harsh judgment to say that somebody who doesn't support a comprehensive immigration plan is a racist. I don't believe that.
I do believe legitimate -- I mean, citizens have got legitimate concerns, realizing that parts of this border have been open for anybody who wants to come across. And we've got to stop that. We must enforce our border. So for those who call for border enforcement, I think it would be certainly not a racist statement. But what I don't want is I don't want people condemned, ever condemned based upon their personal beliefs or based upon their religion or based upon their background. And I truly believe the genius of America has been one where we welcome people, we help them assimilate into society and we become, you know, one nation under God.
MALVEAUX: I've got just a little bit of time, so let me wrap this up if you would. You came into the second term with a lot of confidence in political capital. Clearly, it is your lowest approval ratings at this point, and congressional Republicans are going in their own direction. What do you do to become -- at least not risk becoming irrelevant?
BUSH: Look, yesterday, I signed a bill extending capital gains and dividends. We're making -- we've had a very strong legislative record. I will continue to sign good law, because I'm working with members of the House and the Senate. I -- we're going to win the war on terror. I'm doing my job, what the American people want me to do.
MALVEAUX: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
BUSH: Suzanne, always a pleasure.
MALVEAUX: I appreciate it.
BUSH: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And still to come in our 7 p.m. Eastern hour, amid record high gas prices, the CEOs of the top three American car companies come to Capitol Hill offering some suggestions in the gas crunch.
And will you see it or will you take a pass? "The Da Vinci Code" opens nationwide tomorrow. Many religious groups hope you'll stay away. I'll talk to a prominent Catholic theologian who's seen the movie and ask him what he thinks. Father David O'Connell, the president of Catholic University, standing by live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In the culture wars, the long anticipated movie adaptation of "The Da Vinci Code" opens tomorrow. And while millions of Americans are sure to line up, others are calling for a boycott of the film.
CNN's Mary Snow is joining us now live from New York with details of the controversy -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, from the Vatican to evangelical churches, there's a war of sorts against "The Da Vinci Code" and its depiction of Jesus. But among the movie's protestors, there is division over how to fight that war. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): At the Cannes Film Festival, cast members celebrate "The Da Vinci Code" opening. But in Washington, D.C., religious groups called for a boycott of the film.
REV. THOMAS EUTENEUER, HUMAN LIFE INTERNATIONAL: We do not have to pay someone $9.50 to sit in a theater and slap us for two hours.
SNOW: Some say boycotts like 1988's boycott of "The Last Temptation of Christ" can backfire and end up boosting sales.
AMY WELBORN, CATHOLIC AUTHOR: Boycotts are exactly what the movie producers want.
SNOW: Others say those 1988 protests failed in another way.
CRAIG DETWEILER, FULLER THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: I think Christian groups ended up just looking like bad guys who just were afraid of things.
SNOW: So with "The Da Vinci Code" comes a change of strategy. Prior to the film's release, there were church discussions about it, books, and web sites, and films like this one from the U.S. Conference of Bishops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the end, "The Da Vinci Code" is a work of fiction that too many have confused with fact.
SNOW: "The Da Vinci Code's" plot resolves around accounts that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. Opus Dei, the Catholic group portrayed in the movie as trying to keep that story secret, has opened its New York headquarters to the press.
TERRI CARRON, OPUS DEI SPOKESWOMAN: It is important not to be seen as secretive. We are part of the Catholic Church. We want people to know that.
SNOW: In Colorado, evangelical group Focus on the Family made a preemptive strike, hosting programs to talk about the film.
BOB WALISZEWSKI, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: The movie is out there, and we have to deal with it. We've been dealt a bunch of lemons.
SNOW: The unprecedented response to the movie and book signals a turning point.
DETWEILER: The church, which used to set the dogma that maybe pop culture or Hollywood responded to now finds itself having to respond to the agenda that pop culture is setting in the form of Dan Brown and "The Da Vinci Code".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And "Da Vinci Code" director, Ron Howard, who's come under fire, defended the movie at its opening in France, saying the film is supposed to be entertainment, not theology -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Mary, for that report.
Let's get some more on the controversy swirling around "The Da Vinci Code". For that, we're joined by Father David O'Connell. He's the president of the Catholic University of America here in the nation's capital.
Father O'Connell, thanks very much for joining us.
You went to a screening of "The Da Vinci Code" last night. You saw it. What did you think?
FATHER DAVID O'CONNELL, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF AMERICA: To be honest with you, I thought it was boring, tedious, and really drawn out. I mean, I must have looked at my watch about 20 times during the course of the movie. A lot of people -- with all of the hype, you know, I expected to be offended by it. I wasn't offended. I was bored.
BLITZER: And this -- you had read the book. You had told me you actually found that to be a page turner.
O'CONNELL: Yes, actually I did. I picked it up in an airport and read it a couple years ago on vacation when it first came out, again, knowing it was fiction, as the cover jacket of the book says. It's fiction. Everything is fiction in the book.
But I read it. And it really didn't bother me. I can understand, though, some people seeing it, the tone and the texture of some of the dialogue might cause some offense or disturbances.
BLITZER: A lot of Catholics, the Archbishop Angelo Amato, the Vatican doctoral office representative, is quoted in the "Boston Globe" as saying, "'The Da Vinci Code' is full of calumnies, offenses and historical and theological errors regarding Jesus, the gospels and the church. I hope that you all will boycott the film."
Strong words from him.
O'CONNELL: Pretty strong words. And again, that's going to be a personal decision that people have to make.
From my -- from my vantage point, you know, as you're going into a battle, you've got to know who the enemy is and you've got to develop a strategy to confront it. And in my position, working in a university, I felt that I really needed to be in touch with what the movie was about and presented.
I think the movie, actually itself, the reason why it was so boring, it attempted to jam too much into too short a period of time, because the story itself is very, very complicated.
BLITZER: So it's a good book to read, but not necessarily a good film to see. That's your bottom line. O'CONNELL: Yes. I mean, I enjoyed the book. But I know there are others who didn't enjoy the book at all. You know, the premise of the whole thing is kind of humorous to me, you know. The church can't keep a secret for two minutes, let alone for 2,000 years.
BLITZER: So this notion of Jesus and Mary Magdalene that had this secret relationship, you just, you know, think that's total fiction?
O'CONNELL: It has no basis in fact. It's not in the gospel. Certainly, if it happened, it would be somewhere in the pages of the scriptures. And there's no evidence for it whatsoever or even in the early history of the church. So I think it's nonsense.
BLITZER: Ron Howard, "The Da Vinci Code" director, said, "It's not theology. It's not history. To start off with a disclaimer, spy thrillers don't start off with a disclaimer." He was explaining why the beginning of the movie there was no disclaimer. You've seen it. Was there any disclaimer or anything?
O'CONNELL: No, I didn't notice a disclaimer. You know, he said, you know, it's not -- it's not theology. It's entertainment. Well, not only is it not theology, I don't think it's great entertainment.
BLITZER: Yes, and you've gone to a lot of movies, obviously. When students at Catholic university come to you and say, "Father, should we go see the movie," what do you say?
O'CONNELL: I would say to the, you know, that's up to you, you know. I don't think it's going to shake people's faith. I think the only people who are going to take this and use it for any bad or negative reason are people who are suspicious of the church, people who are angry with the church, who don't like the church. They're going to say, "See, there it is. There's the truth." But it's fiction.
BLITZER: What about the rest of the audience that was there at the screening last night? You went with a lot of people, I assume.
O'CONNELL: Yes.
BLITZER: And what was the general reaction, not from -- we know what your reaction was, but from your colleagues and your friends who were there?
O'CONNELL: I'll tell you, I looked around a couple times, saw a lot of yawning going on.
BLITZER: Really?
O'CONNELL: Yes, I did. And there was no buzz after the movie as people were walking out. You know, usually you hear people saying, "I liked that. Wasn't that" -- none of that at all.
BLITZER: You obviously saw "The Passion of the Christ"? Compare this with that. O'CONNELL: Well, of course, "The Passion of the Christ" is based on fact. Gospel fact, gospel truth. And this movie is based on fiction, something that's not true. And even the author says that in the jacket of the book.
BLITZER: Is the movie itself -- forget about the book for a moment -- the movie itself anti-Catholic?
O'CONNELL: Again, I would say there are elements of it, there are ways that things are said that could be offensive to people. But you know, if a person is really convinced in his or her own faith, I don't think it's going to upset them as much.
But some of the things that are said, some of the things that are done could cause some people offense. I can see it. They're going -- people are going to have to make a careful decision whether or not they want to go see it, as they had to for "The Passion of the Christ".
BLITZER: Were you offended?
O'CONNELL: No, I wasn't offended at all. I wasn't offended by the book either.
BLITZER: You were just bored by the movie?
O'CONNELL: Just bored by the movie. I wanted to get home.
BLITZER: Father David O'Connell, the president of the Catholic University, thanks very much for coming in.
O'CONNELL: Thank you.
BLITZER: Churches, priests, and religious organizations are going online to challenge some of the assertions in "The Da Vinci Code". Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton, is joining us with more on the controversy -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there are now dozens of these sites. Jesus Decoded is one of them, this one launched in March by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, challenging what it calls a riot of laughable errors in the book and in the movie.
It has a section on what to say to a "Da Vinci Code" believer. A Spanish language version has just launched in the last hour, and there's a TV documentary to accompany it, which is going to be airing this weekend.
There are many of these sites out there. From an Opus Dei priest blogging from Rome to this site here, which offers you anti-Da Vinci books that can be ordered in bulk to be handed out at the movie theater.
Sony Pictures anticipated this level of discussion. They have launched their own site, the Da Vinci Dialogue, which allows critics and supporters to go online and discuss the movie. Dan Brown at his web site points out this is a work of fiction. Also points out on the front page of his site that the movie release is now just six hours away -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thanks very much.
Let me ask Father O'Connell one more question while I have him here. Based on what we just heard from Abbi, in the end might this film turn out to be good for the Catholic Church because of the discussion, the debate, the controversy, if you will, that has ensued?
O'CONNELL: Well, you know, for those of us who are convinced in faith I don't think it's going to have any impact. But you know, for those who are a little bit shaky or a little bit doubtful, I think one of the impacts of the movie might be they might say, "Geez, I want to know about that. I'm going to read more about that. I'm going to turn to the gospel; I'm going to turn to the scripture; I'm going to turn to the teachings of the church and find out a little bit more."
BLITZER: Father O'Connell, thanks very, very much.
O'CONNELL: Thank you.
BLITZER: Moving on to the immigration debate. It's proving especially tricky for Arnold Schwarzenegger.
CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us live from Los Angeles with a closer look now at how the governor is walking a fine line -- Chris.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, California has a Republican governor in a state dominated by Democrats. And he's been showing an independent streak when it comes to immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is refusing to fall in line with some parts of President Bush's plan to protect the border.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: I think that what we should do is press the federal government.
LAWRENCE: Even a 40-minute phone call from the secretary of homeland security didn't completely change his view that federal agents should secure the border.
SCHWARZENEGGER: It's their responsibility, not the state's responsibility.
LAWRENCE: Schwarzenegger opposes putting California's National Guardsmen on the border in two-week rotations.
SCHWARZENEGGER: They're already, you know, overloaded. And they should go back to their families. And also should make money again and go back to their normal careers.
LAWRENCE: The governor has to appeal to a conservative base without alienating immigrant supporters.
ALLAN HOFFENBLUM, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Here in California, the Latino community has enormous political power.
LAWRENCE: Republican political strategist Allan Hoffenblum says you cannot get elected statewide in California with anything less than a third of the Latino vote.
HOFFENBLUM: Because Republicans are perceived to be anti- Mexican, anti-immigrant, the Latinos ceased to vote for them. The one to turn it around was Arnold Schwarzenegger, who got 35 percent of the Latino vote.
LAWRENCE: He's faced a lot of challenges since that election three years ago. Voters roundly rejected many of his important proposals. Schwarzenegger sank in the polls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May 12, Steve Wassley (ph) begins running negative ads.
LAWRENCE: Now, the governor's Democratic challengers are attacking each other. And on Wednesday, the state of California's credit rating rose for the first time in nearly two years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: In other words, with less than six months to go before the next election, Schwarzenegger may be on his way back -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Chris, thanks for that. Chris Lawrence, part of the best political team on television, CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
Let's check in with Lou. He's getting ready for his program that begins right at the top of the hour.
How are you doing, Lou?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Doing well, Wolf. Thank you very much.
Coming up at 6 Eastern here on CNN, we'll have complete coverage of the president's visit to our southern border with Mexico, trying to sell his so-called comprehensive immigration reform plan.
Tonight, we'll tell you why two parts of the president's plan could fail: his plan to send 6,000 National Guardsmen to the border and his huge interest in technology that hasn't worked on our border for years.
And among my guests tonight, one of the leading congressional critics of the president's so-called immigration reform, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.
And with the invasion of illegal aliens comes deadly disease. We'll be talking about the impact of illegal immigration on our hospital and health care system. It's a subject not often talked about but definitely bears closer examination.
And tonight, I'll be talking with a man who's invented a cheap and effective way to help save our troops' lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. We hope you'll be with us for that and a great deal more.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou, for that.
Up ahead, it's no ordinary jumbo jet. It's the world's largest. And CNN's Richard Quest is there as it lands in London.
Plus, your answers to our question of the hour: should the Enron jury send Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling to prison? Jack Cafferty standing by with your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from our friends at the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.
In Portland, Oregon, firefighters battle a four alarm blaze. No one was injured.
Florida, Ocala National Forest, alligator captured. Check it out. Officials say they believe it's the same one that attacked and killed a woman snorkeling in the creek Sunday.
In Ecuador, a volcanic eruption sparks a limited state of emergency in nearby towns. No evacuations have been ordered yet.
And in Annapolis, Maryland, an annual tradition. Navy Academy floods (ph) works together to climb a lard-covered monument to celebrate their promotion to third class rank. Took them over an hour to scale to the top. Good work.
Some of today's "Hot Shots." Pictures often worth a thousand words.
Jack Cafferty has got some words for us. He's joining us now live from New York -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.
The jury in the Enron case deciding the fate of the company's founder, Kenneth Lay, and the former CEO, Jeff Skilling. The two are accused of lying about the condition the company was in at the time it was imploding while at the same time selling more than $500 million worth of their own stock.
The question is should the jury send Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling to prison?
Kevin of Virginia writes, "I don't think Enron executives deserve prison time. Just a bankruptcy that liquidates their assets and future income garnishment that compensates the people they screwed."
D.J. in Marion, Ohio: "If Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling don't spend the rest of their lives in jail, then the jury will be bigger criminals than Lay and Skilling themselves, and the justice system will have failed the American people utterly."
Dave in Ingram, Texas: "Send them to jail? You mean to the resort out in Lompoc, California, for a year and a half? You bet, steal millions and go on vacation. That's the norm, sadly, for white collar crime."
Jim in Michigan writes, "Absolutely. These two crooks schemed and lied to their employees about the status of Enron. Thousands of people lost their retirement investments while these bums gained millions. Kenny-Boy should go to the slammer immediately and serve his time until the Decider pardons him."
And D. in Florida writes, "Not only should they go to jail for life, but they should spend it in solitary. These weasels can probably slither out of an ordinary jail cell. If I told you what I really think should happen to them you'd have to change the rating on your program" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, what do you think? What do you think is going to happen to them? Hard to tell. These juries, you never know.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I have no idea, you know. I hope they go to prison. I think that's where they belong.
BLITZER: Jack, see you in an hour. Thank you very much.
Up next, if you build it, they will come. In a really, really big airliner. London's Heathrow Airport has been upgraded to handle the massive new Airbus. Today a trial flight gives Londoners the first-hand look. We'll give you a look, as well. Richard Quest was there when it landed.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM.
Clearly, some airlines think bigger is better. But is the world really ready for the Airbus A-380? Not every airport can accommodate an airliner built to carry more than 500 passengers. But some will in the future. London got its first look today after a massive airport renovation.
CNN's Richard Quest has our "Welcome to the Future" report -- Richard.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the A-380 has already visited many other international airports like Singapore and Dubai. But there was always going to be more interest in its arrival at Heathrow for one simple reason. It's the busiest international airport in the world that's not restricted and congested. Many say Heathrow is the very airport for which this plane has been designed.
So it was a lot of people came to watch the landing. A slightly bumping landing, it has to be admitted. But over the next few hours, they've been testing, watching, and monitoring.
For instance, the strengthened runways, the widened taxiways. This new stair assist (ph) that was built at several hundred million dollar cost allows flat bridges (ph) to come to the plane at different levels to accommodate the hundreds of passengers that will get off the giant double-decker.
So far, both Heathrow and the 380 have passed with flying colors. It will be some months, though, Wolf, before passengers get to fly on the plane. The first commercial flight goes from Singapore to Sydney in December.
And there's one thing of which we hope to be sure, I'll be on board, Wolf.
BLITZER: A nice look at the future. Richard, thank you very much.
Remember, we're here weekday afternoons. We're back in one hour, 7 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks for watching. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now, Lou standing by.
Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: Hi, Wolf.
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