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The Situation Room
Senate Debating Gay Marriage Ban; Donald Rumsfeld Under Fire over Iraq; Bill Clinton Delivers Keynote Speech in New Jersey
Aired June 05, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, thank you. To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories happening now.
An all-out political assault on gay marriage. The president and Republican leaders revive the issue and reach out to the conservative base. It's 4:00 here in Washington where supporters of the gay marriage ban say they are protecting children. Critics say they are pandering. The Senate is debating a gay marriage ban right now. But do voters across the country really care? This hour, we'll get a snapshot from Tennessee and we'll examine the election year politics behind the culture wars.
And Donald Rumsfeld under fire again over Iraq. Will the Pentagon chief pay a price for alleged atrocities by U.S. troops? It is midnight in Iraq, scene of new bloodshed, bombings and kidnappings.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now, senators are debating one of the hottest of hot button issues, a proposed constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage in the United States. Chances of passage are considered slim to none, but many Republicans are keen on making a statement in this congressional election year, including President Bush. With his conservative base shakier than ever, Mr. Bush declared just a short while ago that he's proud to stand with supporters of a gay marriage ban. Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash is standing by, so is our chief national correspondent John King. Let's go to the White House first. Our White House correspondent Ed Henry with the latest. Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Democrats are charging that the president is trying to divert attention from the bad news in Iraq by turning to a tried and true social issue that whips up conservatives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): President Bush gave restless conservatives the red meat they have been craving.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Marriage is the most fundamental institution of civilization and it should not be redefined by activist judges. You are here because you strongly support a constitutional amendment that defines marriage as a union of a man and a woman. And I am proud to stand with you.
HENRY: Conservatives are frustrated that people close to the president have been lashing out at the proposed ban on gay marriage.
MARY CHENEY, AUTHOR, "NOW IT'S MY TURN": Basically writing discrimination into the constitution of the United States is fundamentally wrong.
HENRY: While the president has been keeping his powder dry on an issue that helped deliver his reelection.
TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: There has been some concern that this was an issue that was important enough to campaign on in the 2004 election cycle by Republicans in general, but it's not been important enough to act upon yet.
HENRY: Liberals see a president down in the polls suddenly turning to a wedge issue that can drive conservatives to the polls in the midterms.
REV. ROBERT HARDIES, ALL SOULS CHURCH: Let's be honest with ourselves, there isn't anyone here who is naive enough to believe that the introduction of this legislation now in two consecutive election cycles is anything but a politically motivated effort to win votes by demonizing a class of citizens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: The president responded by insisting he believes every American should be treated with tolerance and respect and he also responded sharply to critics who say this should be decided by the states. The president said states are trying to do it, but they are being overridden by activist judges. He used the phrase activist judges at least four times just to emphasize that point. That really hits home with conservatives, Wolf.
BLITZER: Bottom line Ed, how committed is the White House to this issue?
HENRY: Well, you know, when the first lady Laura Bush recently said it should not be used as a campaign issue sent kind of a mixed signal to conservatives. Today White House spokesman Tony Snow added to that a little bit by saying, almost painting a picture of a passive president only speaking out today because of the Senate debate, not really doing it on his own, saying it's unlikely the president will be making calls to lobby senators. That only feeds into the Democratic charge that the president is trying to do just enough to whip up conservatives, but not more that might turn off sort of middle of the road voters. But I can tell you, the president may have (INAUDIBLE) today. I spoke to Dr. James Dobson after the speech, one of the top conservative activists in the country. He told me the president hit the right notes and said, quote I don't think he could have said it any stronger. Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed, thank you very much. Let's go up to the hill. The Senate debate now underway. Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash is watching all of this unfold from there. Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well the debate started at just a couple of hours ago and we expect senators to vote midweek, probably Wednesday morning but there is no chance, no chance that this will reach the two-thirds majority needed to actually change the constitution. So the obvious question is why in fact are they debating this issue right now? Well, you heard Ed talk on many of the political issues. Senate sponsors especially one in particular, Senator Wayne Allard of Colorado has been hitting an issue hard that we also heard from the president today. That what they think is that states, many of the states where massive numbers of voters, big majorities, 70 in one case, 75 percent in another did vote to ban gay marriage. But as you heard Ed talk about, activist judges overturned the will of the voters. Let's listen to the Senator Allard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. WAYNE ALLARD (R) COLORADO: Make no mistake about it, traditional marriage is under assault. I say assault because the move to redefine marriage is taken place not through the Democratic process, such as state legislatures and the Congress or ballot initiatives around the nation. This assault has taken a place in our courts and often in direct conflict with the will of the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now proponents do expect to get for the first time a majority or over a majority of votes for this issue. They expect about 52 votes in favor of this constitutional amendment. And they say that at least shows that they have momentum on this issue. But certainly you talk about a long-term policy goal. There's no question that there is also very much a short-term political goal here, Wolf and that is the fact that conservatives say across the board, that they are very upset about the way their Republican leaders here in Washington, especially those up for reelection in 2006 are governing and they simply think that they have not paid attention to their issues enough. So that's their perspective. On the other side Democrats Wolf say that there is something else at play, that that is, Republican leaders simply don't want to talk about the issues that many voters care about because that equals bad news, things like Iraq and gas prices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D) MINORITY LEADER: For me it's clear the reason for this debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another. This is another one of president's -- the president's efforts to frighten, to distort, distract and confuse America. It is this administration's way of avoiding the tough, the real problems that American citizens are confronted with each and every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: The truth is, this issue was actually put on the Senate calendar, Wolf, at the very beginning of this session, back at the beginning of 2005. But we're not seeing it come up for a vote until now, five months before an election. You talk to conservatives. Many of them may say, wait a minute, we got out and voted for you in the last election for this. So some of them certainly feel taken for granted when it comes to appealing to them on these issues. Wolf.
BLITZER: You would need 67 votes in the Senate to get it passed, the two thirds majority. You say they might get up to 52 votes. Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska, is he the only Democrat who is going to vote against, he's going to vote with, in favor of the constitutional ban?
BASH: He very well could be, haven't seen an exact vote count, but it's possible he could be the only Democrat and on the other side, there will be some Republicans Wolf who vote against this because they don't think that this is the business of the -- this shouldn't be a constitutional issue. This should be left up to the states no matter what happens in the states. So but they do believe, supporters of this do believe they will get 52 votes. That's up from the last time in 2004 they only got 48 votes and the difference is because Republicans have more senators and they think that has ticked up the vote margin for them. We'll see on Wednesday.
BLITZER: Thank you, Dana. Dana Bash on the Hill.
Some gay Republicans are firing right back at the president for promoting a gay marriage ban. They are accusing him of trying to score political points by dividing Americans. In an open letter to Mr. Bush, (INAUDIBLE) the group the Log Cabin Republicans writes and let me quote, your decision to use the grounds of the White House, America's house, to advance discrimination is an insult to millions of fair minded Americans from all walks of life. And as Ed Henry noted, the Vice President Dick Cheney's openly gay daughter Mary speaks out against the gay marriage ban in her new book. Here is more of what she told me right here THE SITUATION ROOM a few weeks ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY CHENEY, DICK CHENEY'S DAUGHTER: The notion of amending the constitution and writing basically writing discrimination into the constitution of the United States is fundamentally wrong.
BLITZER: You write this on page 180 in your book. If the Republican Party fails to come around on this issue, same sex marriage I believe it will find itself on the wrong side of history and on a sharp decline into irrelevance. Those are strong words.
CHENEY: They are strong words and I did write them and I believe them. I think if you look at polls and I do talk about them in the book, this is not a conservative issue, not a liberal issue, not a Republican issue or Democrat issue. This is a generational issue. And as voter -- as younger voters, as younger people come of age, what you're going to see is you're going to see resistance to same sex marriage dissipating.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: We're going to have more of that interview with Mary Cheney and her views on same sex marriage. That's coming up in our next hour right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The gay marriage debate is front and center here in Washington, but it is also playing out at the state level five months before Election Day. Our chief national correspondent John King is here in THE SITUATION ROOM. You've been traveling around the country seeing what is going on.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, that's because as Dana and Ed just noted, everybody knows the debate in the Senate will not lead to the votes necessary to actually send an amendment out to the states to be ratified. So this action, the real action is taking place at the state level including the home state of the Senate majority leader Bill Frist.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Joan and Nancy live just outside Nashville, one of the real front lines in the gay marriage debate. Tennessee is one of seven states with proposed amendments this year along with Alabama, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Virginia and Wisconsin. Nineteen states already ban gay marriage. A movement Christian conservatives like Tennessee State Senator David Fowler says will continue to expand if there are not enough votes in Congress to advance a nationwide ban. Fowler disputes critics who say Republicans use gay marriage initiatives to drive up conservative turn-out in the 2004 presidential cycle and are hoping for a repeat this November.
DAVID FOWLER (R) TENNESSEE STATE SENATE: Many of us, people like me, we deep down do believe that marriage is not one of those things we can define any way we want to and it has nothing to do with politics. If it makes for good politics, fine. But to me it's not about politics.
KING: White evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay marriage movement here in Tennessee and across the country. Many African-American pastors like Henry Coles of Nashville at Word of Faith Christian Center also oppose gay marriage and are striking odd alliances this election year.
REV. HENRY COLES, WORD OF FAITH CHRISTIAN CENTER: It's a fundamental doctrinal precept of my faith in Christ Jesus and for me as a representative of Christ, unions begin with a man and a woman.
KING: This testimonial in favor of same sex marriage was delivered at a gay pride festival. Joan and Nancy met in bible study and bristle when God is brought into the political debate.
JOAN VANREESE, GAY MARRIAGE ADVOCATE: I know that my God loves me. And I don't understand why that has to be -- I'm sorry I just don't understand that whole purpose.
NANCY VANREESE, GAY MARRIAGE ADVOCATE: There's so many things and he is speaking of his faith. Should we actually vote to include discrimination into our constitution ever? And that's a legal question, not a faith-based question.
KING: Now one of the subplots in this debate is, does putting these state ballot initiatives on the ballot, does it actually drive up vote among conservative Republicans? As you know Wolf, that's a great debate in this town. Many Democrats think this president would not have been reelected were it not for the initiative on the Ohio ballot last year. Mr. Bush won Ohio. Many Democrats think maybe they would have won that state if that were not on there. The president's pollster in that campaign says simply not true. He says there's no evidence that this boosts turnout, but we're going to see seven of these on the ballot this November, many of them in states like Tennessee with a key Senate race. It will be interesting to watch say, Harold Ford, an African-American member of Congress, going into African-American churches where some of the ministers are working with Republicans on this issue. It makes for pretty remarkable politics.
BLITZER: How is he, Harold Ford Jr., how is he finessing this? He wants to be the senator from Tennessee. He's right now a congressman. How does he handle this? How's he answering questions when it comes up?
KING: Right now in the Senate he's against the constitutional amendment. We could not get an answer from his office as to how he will vote on the state constitutional ban. But the question is going to be, when he's walking into these churches. Some of these ministers of course -- it's very interesting. Some of the African-American ministers are fighting amongst themselves because some say don't get involved in this issue because they think their congregants don't like it. Others say don't stand up with Republicans, especially evangelical Republicans. So it's an issue for the senator. It's also an issue for some of these ministers. The minister we spoke to said many of his colleagues if you will pressure him to not get involved. He says he reads the Bible and he must.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, John King reporting for us. Thank you. John King. Ed Henry, Dana Bash, they are all part of the best political team on television, CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
The most recent polling by the way shows Americans are divided over gay marriage. Fifty percent of those surveyed by Gallup last month say they favor a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman; 47 percent say they oppose it. We'll have much more on gay marriage politics, public opinion, that's coming up from our bill Schneider and James Carville and JC Watts, they'll have some thoughts on this as well. That's coming up in our strategy session.
Time now for Jack Cafferty. He's joining us from New York with the Cafferty File. Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: A Michigan judge is going ahead with a lawsuit against the National Security Agency's warrantless domestic spying program. The Bush administration wanted the lawsuit dismissed, along with a similar one here in New York. The administration claims something called U.S. military and state secrets privilege when it comes to these cases. They say the government would not be able to defend the program without disclosing classified information. In other words they don't want any court deciding if the spying program is legal. That could be embarrassing if it came down against them. Some members of Congress have questioned the way this privilege has been used by the Bush White House. Republican Congressman Christopher Shays told "The New York Times" it's the very people you're suing are the ones who get to use the state secrets privilege. It's a stacked deck. So here's the question. Should lawsuits challenging the legality of NSA's warrantless spying program be allowed to proceed? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com. or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Jack for that and to our viewers if you want a sneak preview of Jack's questions, plus an early read on the day's political news, what's ahead in THE SITUATION ROOM, here's what you do. You sign up for the daily e-mail alert. Simply go to CNN.com/SITUATIONROOM.
Coming up, a new threat from Iran to use oil as a weapon in the showdown over that country's nuclear ambitions. So what does it mean for the white House? What does it mean for the U.S.? We'll find out.
Is affirmative action in schools constitutional? The U.S. Supreme Court says it will hear a crucial case on the issue. Details ahead and later much more in our top story, the battle over gay marriage. Once again James Carville and JC Watts, they'll face off in today's strategy session. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Another week of Zain Verjee here in THE SITUATION ROOM. She is back with us with a quick check of some other important stories making headlines. Hi Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Wolf. Iran makes veiled threats but the United States says not to take them seriously yet. Yesterday's Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini said Iran could disrupt oil supplies if the U.S. makes quote, a wrong move against Iran. But today the White House said the comment should only be taken in a theoretical sense.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would caution against leaping to conclusions until the leadership in Iran has actually had an opportunity to look over the packages of incentives and disincentives offered by the EU-3 with the support of the United States. It's easy to make comments into a vacuum and my sense is that again the Iranians are going to realize that this is a serious offer and it's an offer that offers great promise for that and offers great promise for the region. Bit it's going to take some time.
VERJEE: Snow is referring to the offer for Iran to give up its nuclear program in exchange for incentives.
In Iraq, shockingly bold body snatchings in Baghdad. Right now 50 people are missing after gunmen dressed up at Iraqi police commandos driving vehicles with Iraqi police markings raided three transportation companies as well as then kidnapped 50 people. The attack of these fake Iraqi police officers was apparently undetected and not stopped by the real Iraqi police.
Meanwhile, also in Iraq, a new death toll for American troops. 2,475 U.S. troops have died since the war began in March of 2003.
And a diplomacy abroad but under fire at home. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld visited Vietnam today. He's there to try and convince that nation to help the U.S. recover the remains of American troops still missing from the Vietnam War. Meanwhile back here in the U.S. Senator Joe Biden is urging Rumsfeld to resign amid allegations that U.S. Marines massacred 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha last November. Yesterday the Delaware Democrat told NBC news the blame for the alleged atrocities should go all the way up to Rumsfeld, but a senior Pentagon officials tells CNN quote, it would be unfortunate if politics entered this discussion.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much. Let's go up to New York Ali Velshi is standing by. Not a good day in the markets. Is it all because of the Ayatollah?
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: No, it started off with Iran and that was about 50 points down early in the day. That was all quiet. Ben Bernanke needs to take a vacation. He came on -- he was televised talking to a bunch of bankers. He said something very interesting. One is he said -- and here's the statement he made. He said, the economy is -- the anticipated moderation of economic growth seems now to be under way. And we kind of all knew that, but what he's saying is that the economy is slowing down because of increased costs partially from energy, partially from core commodities, things like that. But when there is inflation, the Fed can only do one thing. It can raise interest rates and that got everybody spooked because if he is already saying the economy is slowing down and he's going to increase interest rates maybe at the next meeting in June, well that's just bad for business. You know what it did for the markets? It took the Dow down 199 points to close at 11,048. It took the Nasdaq down almost 50 points, 2169, massive losses on the market today across the board. The only Dow stock that didn't lose money today was Disney. We'll talk more about that when I'm back in the 5:00 Eastern hour.
BLITZER: We'll talk about the price of oil as well Ali. Thank you very much.
A major development today for the United States Supreme Court that could set the stage for a landmark ruling on affirmative action. The justices agreed to hear arguments over racial diversity plans used by a number of school districts around the country. The court rejected a similar case in December when moderate Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was still on the bench. Now that she has been replaced by conservative Justice Samuel Alito, the court has agreed to take on this issue in the fall. Legal experts say the constitutionality of affirmative action could be at stake. We'll be watching all of this very closely.
The president of the United States speaks out and the Congress debates. But where do you stand on the fight over same sex marriage? We'll take a closer look at the polls and much more when we return. Plus, should he stay or should go? James Carville and JC Watts debate the latest call for the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to step down, today's strategy session only moments away. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Let's get back to our top story. Gay marriage smack dab in the middle of the culture wars. President Bush rejoined the fray today in a very public way. There's new action right now on Capitol Hill. Let's first go to our senior political analyst Bill Schneider. He's taking a closer look at the polls and where we stand as a nation. Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, the Senate is debating a Federal marriage amendment. Question, why is this happening?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says the issue is urgent.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R) MAJORITY LEADER: As we speak, there are nine states whose laws protecting the traditional definition of marriage are being challenged in court.
SCHNEIDER: Does the public share that tense of urgency? A majority of Americans polled say same sex marriages should not be recognized as valid. But does the public favor a constitutional amendment to ban them? They are split. The public is reluctant to tamper with the constitution. Congressional Republicans want to save their majority by rallying social conservatives who feel seduced and abandoned. The Family Research Council has been lobbying for the amendment.
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: This was an issue that was important enough to campaign on in the 2004 election cycle by Republicans in general, but it's not been important enough to act upon yet.
SCHNEIDER: A constitutional amendment is unlikely to pass. So Republicans can show faith with their base without threatening those who disagree. But social conservatives could end up feeling disillusioned. Why vote for a Republican Congress if it can't deliver? Why not just stay home? The amendment supporters are running another risk. Ask Americans what issues they care about right now and Iraq, the economy, immigration, and gas prices top the list. That's what they want Congress to debate. Debating the definition of marriage critics say is a diversion.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D) DELAWARE: It seems to me it's designed to avoid debating energy policy, designed to avoid pointing out that we have not met the recommendations of the 9/11 commission homeland security. SCHNEIDER: This debate is unlikely to produce a result, except to reinforce the image of a Congress that's out of touch with the people's real concerns. Wolf?
BLITZER: Bill Schneider. Thank you very much. Today in our strategy session, President Bush stepped into the battle over gay marriage as the Senate takes up this debate on a constitutional amendment to ban it. Will this push help bring GOP conservatives back into the fold before the November election?
Joining us now are CNN political analyst, Democratic strategist James Carville and former Republican congressman JC Watts. The president gathered a lot of his supporters at the old executive office building. It's now called the Eisenhower Old Executive Office Building next door to the White House and he said this. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: You are here because you strongly support a constitutional amendment that defines marriage as the union of a man and a woman. And I am proud to stand with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: James, what do you make of the president's strategy here?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, Wolf, I was watching -- actually watching CNN.
And he's talking about a gay marriage amendment. The stock market is down 200 points. They had a call, almost 2,500 dead Americans in Iraq. The Ayatollah in Iran is -- is thumbing his nose right in our eye. And it's almost like surreal or, to some extent, almost comical, is, the most urgent thing facing America is a couple of gays might -- in Massachusetts might get married.
And I don't think that this thing is not not going to help him. I think it is going to reinforce and build on the perception that these people just flat don't get it. They don't get what is going on around the world, don't get rising health care costs, energy costs, rising deficit, anything.
So, I -- I started out the day thinking this was sort of whatever they would lose on one side, they would gain on another. I actually think this is going to affirmatively hurt him and feed into an existing perception that people have of Republicans.
BLITZER: J.C., I suspect you disagree?
J.C. WATTS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I think the Congress and the president can chew gum and walk at the same time.
Just because they are dealing with the marriage amendment, doing something that Senator Frist said last year that they would debate in '06, that doesn't mean they they're -- they have forgotten about the war in Iraq or the economy.
As a matter of fact, in spite of the fact that we lost 200 points in the Dow -- in the stock market today, the economy is doing very, very well. So, you know, I think this is something that the president has said that he would -- he would have a vote on, call for a vote on. I think they will get a few more votes in the Senate. Don't think it will pass.
But I think it's -- it's the right policy.
BLITZER: It's not exactly an easy issue for a lot of Democrats, especially in some of those so-called red states that they have to deal with right now.
CARVILLE: Again -- again, it's a 50-47 issue. The country is very split on this.
I don't understand why the president is bringing up a policy that -- that is divisive, that most people don't even consider a major problem in America, and not dealing with the things.
And, you know, next week, it's going to be the flag-burning amendment, because, boy, that -- everywhere you go around America, that is all that you see, is people burning flags.
I think what it feeds into, Wolf, is -- is this Terri Schiavo, the bankruptcy bill, everything that they do is about some sort of political calculation. And we're told that Mr. Rove has to do this because the right is -- Gary Bauer or Jerry Falwell or James Dobson is upset. Well, there are a lot of other people that are upset for bigger reason than any James Dobson or Jerry Falwell is upset.
BLITZER: Well, let me read to -- let me read to J.C.
Let me read you what Joe Glover, the president of the Family Policy Network, was quoted by "The L.A. Times" as saying: "I'm going to go and hear what he says. But we already know it's a ruse. We are not buying it. We're going to go and watch the dog and pony show, but it's too little, too late" -- strong words from a very conservative supporter of the president.
WATTS: Who was that, Wolf?
BLITZER: It's a guy named Joe Glover, the president of the Family Policy Network.
WATTS: You know him, James?
CARVILLE: I know he has got a lot of power. I know Jim Dobson and Jerry Falwell run this administration. I know that.
WATTS: Well, you know -- now, James, you mentioned Falwell, Dobson. Bauer.
CARVILLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: How about the other 70 percent of the American people that I think would say that this is the right policy?
Whenever the marriage amendment is brought up, you will -- Wolf, you will have people that will say bad timing; it's about politics; they shouldn't do this.
One -- again, Bill Frist said last year that we would debate this in '06. And, two, is there ever a wrong time to do the right thing?
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Well, let me ask -- let me ask you this.
CARVILLE: Can I correct...
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: Is there ever a wrong -- is there ever a wrong time to do the right thing?
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: This is the right policy for America.
CARVILLE: It's 50-47. It's 50-47. Americans are split down the line on -- on -- on a matter...
BLITZER: According to a Gallup poll.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: According to the Gallup poll.
WATTS: According to -- well, according to the Gallup poll. It's split down the middle.
According to the Gallup poll, this is an issue that they think is of hardly any consequence at all. Why, at a time when we have the problems in Iraq, the problems with the deficit, the problems with health care costs, the problem with energy costs, are we bringing up an issue that's going to split America, that America really doesn't have that deep of feelings about?
BLITZER: Well, let me...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Let me sharpen that question to J.C.
And, as the argument goes, at a time when there's absolutely no chance it's going to get the two-thirds majority in the Senate, 67 votes, it would need to go to the next level.
WATTS: Well, but -- but -- there's many issues that we bring up every day in Congress that they don't get the necessary votes to pass.
But do we not bring them up? There are many issues, Wolf, that, in the eight years that I spent in Congress, we brought issues to the floor of the House that we knew they might not pass in the Senate. But does that mean we don't pass them in the House? You have to act, or you have to start somewhere.
When you have got, as the argument goes, all the activist judges around the country that are trying to do away with -- with -- with traditional marriage, I think it is necessary to say...
BLITZER: Let me read -- let me...
WATTS: ... let's have a federal amendment that says we're going to protect the institution of marriage, one man, one woman.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Let me quickly read to you what Mary Cheney, the daughter of the vice president, writes in her book "Now It's My Turn."
"If the Republican Party fails to come around on this issue, I believe it will find itself on the wrong side of history and on a sharp decline into irrelevance."
WATTS: Well, I -- I beg to differ with that. And I -- I think -- you know, I have great respect for Mary Cheney.
But, again, I do believe that most Americans, the great majority of Americans, in spite of what the -- what the polls say, they agree that marriage should be one man, one woman. And they are willing do whatever they have to do to protect that institution.
BLITZER: Let's move on and talk about Iraq for a moment.
Senator Joe Biden, who is running for the -- the presidency, he was on "Meet the Press" yesterday. He was adamant in saying that Donald Rumsfeld, the defense secretary, should take the blame for not only some of the misconduct in Iraq, the misconduct in handling the war, but, specifically, Haditha, the alleged massacre by U.S. Marines.
Listen to what Biden said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MEET THE PRESS")
BIDEN: There is a system of accountability. The system of accountability is, it used to be a gentlemanly thing, as they say. When you make serious mistakes, you step forward and you acknowledge them, and you walk away. Presidents can't and shouldn't do that. Secretaries of defense can and should.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He has been recommending that Rumsfeld quit for some time.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: But is this a good strategy right now, to revive this, you know, Rumsfeld should be blamed for alleged misconduct?
CARVILLE: Senator Biden is a smart guy. Nobody ever gets fired in this administration for misconduct or being wrong, only people that are right, like Larry Lindsey or Paul O'Neill or General Shinseki.
People that mess up are given promotions and medals. So, why should they -- why would the president fire Rumsfeld for botching up the war, when no one else got fired? It really wouldn't be fair. It would be un-American to fire him, if you hadn't fired all of the other people.
BLITZER: J.C., you get the last word.
WATTS: Well, I'm -- I'm a fan of General Shinseki. But there's one difference in Shinseki and Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld is the president's guy. He did not hire General Shinseki.
He did ask Rumsfeld to come and be his secretary of defense. He has stood by him. He's going to stick by him. And I think what Joe Biden says or what J.C. Watts or James Carville says is irrelevant. What does the president say? And he has repeatedly said that.
CARVILLE: Right. He has repeatedly left incompetence and promoted and left them in. So, I don't -- I don't see why he would change.
WATTS: Well, but that's in the eye of the beholder. That's a subject for debate.
BLITZER: We got to leave it right there.
James Carville and J.C. Watts, thanks to both of you.
To our viewers, you know that they and Bill Schneider, who you saw earlier, are part of the best political team on television -- CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
Up next: National Guard troops arrive at the U.S.-Mexican border. But they are not the only high-profile visitors coming to the border. We will explain in today's "Political Radar."
And who is picking up the tab when members of Congress travel? A new report uncovers lots of free trips. What a surprise. We will tell you who is paying the bill.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Back to our political battle over gay marriage.
You heard our John King earlier say he did not get an immediate answer when he asked Congressman Harold Ford Jr.'s office about how he would vote on a proposed Tennessee state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. The congressman's office now says he supports proposals that define marriage as a union between a man and woman and would support state or federal initiatives consistent with that position.
On our "Political Radar" this Monday, President Bush heads to the U.S.-Mexico border tomorrow to talk about security and immigration reform. And the first National Guard troops now are on duty at the border. It's part of the president's plan to crack down on illegal immigration.
Soldiers will be in place for more than two weeks working to reinforce border fencing and help spot illegal border crossings.
Congressman Patrick Kennedy says he's feeling good about his health and his future, after nearly a month in drug rehab. The six- term Democrat is back home in Rhode Island today. He says he was not drinking the night he crashed his car near the U.S. Capitol, but he says he now realizes he can no longer take any kind of mood-altering substance.
That includes, he says, the prescription anti-nausea drug and sleep medication he was using that night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: Whether it is alcohol or drugs, any impaired driving is wrong. You know, it makes no difference to me. If you're driving while intoxicated, you're driving while intoxicated, whether it's booze or it's some other chemical. So, in my mind, you know, I'm ready to take the full consequences for my actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Al Gore watchers are dissecting his latest comments about his White House ambitions.
In a TV interview this weekend, the former Democratic presidential nominee effectively said no to a race in 2008, but then refused to rule anything out. Gore said -- and let me quote specifically -- "I have no plans to be a candidate for president again. I don't expect to ever be a candidate again. I haven't made a so-called Sherman statement, because it just seems unnecessary, kind of odd to do that."
Those are the words from Al Gore.
William Sherman, a Civil War general, by the way, famously said that, if drafted, he wouldn't run for president, and, if elected, he wouldn't serve. That's a Shermanesque statement.
There will be a lot of reading of the tea leaves tomorrow, when voters cast ballots in eight states. Some critical primary races for governor, the U.S. Senate, and the House will be decided. But the most watched contest perhaps will be a special election in California to succeed former Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham. He's in prison right now, serving jail time for bribery. We will have a full report on all the political action tomorrow, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Did your representatives in Congress receive an-all-expenses paid trip to Paris or Hawaii? In a five-and-a-half-year period, lawmakers and their aides received nearly $50 million in free trips from private groups and trade organizations. That's according to a new report that's just out.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, is joining us with more -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, the Center for Public Integrity has put this report online. They say it's some 23,000 trips taken by federal lawmakers and their staffers over this five-and-a-half-year period.
We should point out it's OK for them to take these trips, as long as they are disclosed and as long as they are related to official business, or indicated as such. The Center and its partners studied some forms. These are congressional disclosure forms that are filled out within 30 days of these trips. But they say some of these forms were not filled out properly or completely.
For example, on this one in particular, the sponsor is left blank. The purpose of the trip just says fact-finding, no more information than that.
As for who traveled, well, mostly representatives traveled more so than senators. And they took the more expensive trips, according to the Center For Public Integrity.
Interesting to note, of the 25 lawmakers who each took more than $120,000 worth of travel, individually, 17 of those were Democrats. But Democrats and Republicans both traveled pretty frequently -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thank you.
Up next: concerns on both sides of the U.S.-Canadian border today, after 17 people were arrested in Canada in an international terror plot -- details when we return.
And, later, should lawsuits challenging the legality of the NSA spying without a court order program be allowed to proceed? We want to know what you think. Stick around. Jack Cafferty is coming back.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check back with Zain for a quick look at some other stories making news -- Zain. VERJEE: Wolf, stories from disgruntled defendants and worries about a death sentence, it all unfolded in less than three hours today in the real-life drama known as the Saddam Hussein trial. One defendant, a former member of the Hussein regime, said he worries that he will receive a death sentence, and the defense team complained to the chief judge about their security and the detainment of four defense witnesses. The trial has been adjourned until the 12th of June.
It is said to have been a plot of unimaginable horror, a plan to bomb high-profile sites in Canada. Right now, Canadian officials reportedly say more arrests are possible after police nabbed 17 Muslim men and boys over the weekend. Police say they were planning to bomb sites in and around Toronto. We are going to bring you more details next hour.
President Bush welcomed the president of the Republic of Congo to the White House today. The African leader is the head of the 53- nation African Union -- among the issues they discussed, the situation in Darfur in the western region of Sudan. President Bush says, United Nations forces should take over peacekeeping in Darfur as soon as possible. Tens of thousands of people have died in that conflict.
President Bush also met with the president of Honduras. They talked about immigration reform and commercial opportunities between both countries.
Twenty-five years ago today, a CDC report noted five cases of a rare strain of pneumonia in Los Angeles. A generation later, more than 40 million people around the world are infected with a disease that we now know as HIV/AIDS. Around the world today, many honored those who have died of the disease. Tens of millions have died of AIDS since its discovery -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you.,
Up next here in THE SITUATION ROOM: former President Bill Clinton at Princeton University. Did he have words of wisdom for the class of 2006? We will check the reviews online.
Are tough questions for the president's homeland security adviser -- are New York and Washington being shortchanged by the feds? Fran Townsend, will be our guest in THE SITUATION ROOM. We will also talk about border security along the United States-Canada border.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: On his way to a fund-raiser for the Maine governor, the former President Bill Clinton made a stop in Princeton, New Jersey, to deliver a keynote speech. No cameras were allowed at Princeton, but the school has just posted the speech online.
Our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner, once again with more -- Jacki. SCHECHNER: Wolf, let's just get in right now and take a listen. See if you can pull that up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to have a system for more friends and fewer enemies to build more partners and fewer terrorists. That's where politics comes in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHECHNER: President Clinton talked to the upcoming graduates -- their commencement is tomorrow -- about the interdependency of our world, how being a Princeton graduate is going to serve them well, but also that interdependency coming with some pitfalls, having to deal with things like terrorism, avian flu, global warming, energy crises, discussing with them the need to address these things.
He also praised President Bush in the speech, talking about his immigration policy and the need for border enforcement, and how he was working to give citizenship to some undocumented workers.
Now, Princeton is very good about archiving their things. You can go online to their Web site and take a look at the video. We have also posted it for you at THE SITUATION REPORT. That's CNN.com/SITUATIONREPORT -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thank you.
Still to come, challenging the National Security Agency's wiretap program -- should lawsuits be allowed to proceed? Jack Cafferty with your e-mail.
And, just ahead, we will also speak with the Homeland Security adviser at the White House, Fran Townsend. We will ask her to explain why Washington and New York are now said to be at a lower security risk -- all that coming up right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty has got "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Wolf, a Michigan judge is going ahead with a lawsuit against the National Security Agency's warrantless domestic spying program.
The Bush administration wanted the suit dismissed, along with a similar one here in New York. They claim something called U.S. military and state secrets privilege.
The question we asked is: Should the lawsuits challenging the legality of this stuff be allowed to go forward?
Mike in Fruitland Park, Florida: "If the administration and the NSA are telling it like it is, then they have nothing to be concerned over. The ins and outs of the hearing should be kept under wraps, but an independent judiciary needs to hear and rule on the NSA wiretaps."
C.E. in Denver, PA: "The only reason the illegal wiretapping has been tolerated is because the American people have allowed themselves to be frightened into submission. Our laws mean nothing if we don't defend them."
Thomas in Wilton, Maine: "Our legal rights have been deprived by the very branch of government that is charged with protecting them and the U.S. Constitution. Our redress against the executive, George Bush, is the judiciary. George Bush is not above the law."
David in Michigan: "Why shouldn't the courts proceed to hear the case? Is the White House afraid that they may have to speak the truth for the first time in years? And, if, as they have said time and again, the program is legal, wouldn't they be relieved to have the courts uphold the program?"
Ray in Phoenix writes: "Certainly, the lawsuit should proceed. The monitoring of communications of U.S. citizens is illegal, and should remain illegal, and should stop right now. How dare the executive branch determine whether a lawsuit can even exist? That is the judiciary's function."
Wolf, I will throw it back to you, but I'm having trouble hearing you. Let me try it now. Can you hear me? I can't hear you.
BLITZER: Yes. We have been hearing you fine, Jack.
CAFFERTY: All right.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File."
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