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The Situation Room
New Details Emerge on Last Moments of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi; Interview With Former FEMA Director Michael Brown
Aired June 09, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: To your viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories. Happening now, it's 3:00 a.m. in Baghdad. Stunning new details on the last moments of Abu Musab al Zarqawi. The terror leader survived that shattering air strike for a while, at least.
It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington. Where there's more fall-out from last year's disastrous hurricane season. Former FEMA director Michael Brown gives CNN an e-mail alleging candid comments from President Bush in the wake of Katrina. It could prove embarrassing for the White House. Only on CNN we're going to show you the email and we're going to talk with Michael Brown.
And it's 4:00 p.m. in California as the border battle rages, some Republicans say a hard line stance on immigration can pay off at the polls. Does Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger agree? He speaks one on one with our John King.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
There are surprising new details in the death of the most wanted terrorist in Iraq, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, and there are new implications as well, not necessarily what many have been hoping for.
President Bush speaking at Camp David with the Danish prime minister said al Zarqawi's death will not end the war or violence in Iraq although he says it will help a lot. He says the withdrawal of U.S. troops depends on Iraq's success at establishing a government that can quote, "sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself."
CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more on the stunning news we learned today about Abu Musab al Zarqawi's death. Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there's that old saying in the military that first reports are often wrong. This time, the first report was very wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): The official statement from Baghdad yesterday left no doubt. Zarqawi died in the attack by two 500 pound bombs. MAJ. GEN. BILL CALDWELL, U.S. ARMY: He was dead when we arrived there.
STARR: But now that first report was utterly wrong. This was General Caldwell today on Zarqawi.
CALDWELL: According to the report, we did in fact see him alive. There was some kind of movement to have on the stretcher and he died shortly thereafter. Yes, it was confirmed by other than the Iraqi police that he was alive initially.
STARR: Iraqi police were first on the scene. But U.S. troops arrived soon after and saw Zarqawi alive. They report he mumbled something but nobody could make it out. Military officials confirm a medic tried to offer aid but Zarqawi in the final moments of his life slipped in and out of consciousness and died within minutes.
But now, there are more questions about the attack on the safe house north of Baquba. Could the bombs have hit while he was outside the house? Was Zarqawi wearing a suicide vest? Was there a fire fight on the ground before the bombs were dropped?
CNN has confirmed that a group of special operations forces known during the mission as Task Force 145 had the house under surveillance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: But the ultimate question could those Iraqi forces that were first on the scene possibly have shot Zarqawi dead? General Caldwell says no. There is no evidence from the forensics that Zarqawi suffered a gunshot wound. Wolf?
BLITZER: Barbara, thank you very much.
The number two leader of al Qaeda, Ayman al Zawahiri has released an audiotape. It was clearly made before news of al Zarqawi's death although does praise the fellow terrorist. But the timing of the tape may not be coincidental. It's possible al Qaeda may have had it ready to go and rushed it out in an effort to show it was still relevant.
There are fears tonight of a bloody new upsurge in Arab Israeli violence. In Gaza, Hamas militants have called off a 16-month truce with Israel after Israeli gunboats shelled the beach where Palestinians were picnicking. CNN's Fionnuala Sweeney has the story from Jerusalem. Fionnuala?
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it has been a very bloody 24 hours in Gaza. It began with the killing of a senior Hamas government official. Its security chief in a military air strike and culminated in the killing of seven people picnicking on a Gaza Beach on a sunny Friday afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SWEENEY (voice-over): Uncontrollable grief on a Gaza Beach. This young girl had been picnicking with family when artillery shells hit the sand. Her father, among seven people killed. The dead included three children.
The Israeli military has been panning (ph) the border area between northern Gaza and southern Israel for weeks in a bid to stop Qassam rockets being fired by Palestinian militants.
Friday's shelling came only hours after thousands flooded the streets of Gaza for the funeral of Jamal Abu Samudana (ph), slated to be the security chief in the Hamas-led government, blamed by Israel of the rocket attacks and a series of deadly suicide bombing. He was one of seven militants killed by an Israeli air strike on Thursday.
Israel immediately announced a suspension of a attacks on Gaza and began an investigation following the beach incident. Hamas called off its unofficial truce with Israel.
SAMI ABU ZUHRI, HAMAS SPOKESMAN: (through translator): Amid these terrifying pictures of the kids and women and the girl who was screaming for help, we cannot remain silent amid these images and these demonstrations emphasize the necessity of the renewal of the struggle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SWEENEY: Eighteen Palestinians killed in Gaza in 24 hours. The Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is describing the beach incident as a bloody massacre and demanding international intervention. The mood in Gaza tonight, one of anger and revenge. Wolf?
BLITZER: Fionnuala in Jerusalem, thank you very much. Here in the United States midterm elections are still nearly half a year away and Democrats would have to win a lot of seats to control the House of Representatives. But late today anti-war Congressman John Murtha said he wants to be the majority leader if Democrats take over the majority in November. Let's turn to our congressional correspondent Dana Bash. Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Democratic establishment here in Washington is in a state of shock tonight because we really haven't talked to any senior Democrats who claim to have seen this coming that Congressman Murtha intends to run for majority leader. The initial reaction from Democrats is this is bad news. Why? First they say it's a distraction to the number one focus that is taking back the House which they do think is in reach.
And it's just one more piece of evidence that democrats are not unified. And this is a direct challenge, Wolf, to the number two Democrat in the House, that's Steny Hoyer. His spokeswoman released a statement saying how hard he's been working to bring Democrats together. The statement saying quote, "as a result of the unity Mr. Hoyer is confident we will be successful in November and he intends to run for majority leader. He believes his work as whip, caucus chair and with the DCCC has earned him the support of the overwhelming majority of House Democrats."
The bottom line when you think about John Murtha, Wolf, you think Iraq. He has gotten a lot of following among anti-war Democrats for first calling for troop withdrawal late last year. And the truth is he actually is a key lieutenant to House minority leader Nancy Pelosi, especially on Iraq.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Dana, as you know the Democrats are divided on Iraq. How does Murtha's bombshell announcement play into that?
BASH: You're right. Iraq does divide Democrats. They are not unified on any one plan. And some are worried that Murtha's candidacy will actually highlight that just at a time when Democrats want to put a focus this election year on Republican troubles.
Now Iraq will actually be on the House floor next week and no surprise, Wolf, Republicans are already rejoicing in the news coming from the Democratic caucus. One Republican leadership aide saying quote, "Democrats are exactly where we want them to be. They can't agree on anything with regarding their leadership, imagine where they will be regarding the Iraq debate."
Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Dana, thanks very much. Dana Bash part of the best political team on television. CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
And Jack Cafferty is part of that team, as well. Democrats like to argue amongst themselves even in the face of potentially winning some seats from the Republicans.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, they do carry on. But I think Murtha might be good overall for the Democrats in the midterm election. The reason I say that is his high profile position on redeploying troops in Iraq. Overwhelming public opinion in this country would like to see something done to get our troops out of harm's way over there.
And he represents a pretty well known voice on the subject. So who knows? We'll wait and see. Like you say it's almost a half a year away. Many fights before now and then.
Here's one, a fight, House Democrats want to kick Congressman William Jefferson off the powerful Ways and Means Committee in the House.
Jefferson, of course, is the guy accused of taking bribes. FBI agents found 90 grand in cash in the freezer. But members of the Congressional Black Caucus are saying not so fast. The chairman said there's no precedent for Jefferson's suspension. And that black voters might wonder why it is happening to a quote, "black member of Congress," unquote.
Interesting when Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney was involved in smacking that capitol cop upside the head the silence from the Congressional Black Caucus was deafening. They wanted nothing to know from nothing about that.
But now they are all up in arms about Jefferson. Meanwhile the House minority leader Nancy Pelosi's office says that any suggestion Jefferson's being singled out because he's black are untrue. Pelosi asked Jefferson to step down last month, he refused. Now she says she is confident she has the votes to force him off the Ways and Means Committee.
So here's the question, the Democrats want to kick Representative William Jefferson off the Ways and Means Committee. Justified or racist? Your thoughts, caffertyfile@cnn.com or go to cnn.com/caffertyfile. Wolf?
BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much.
Coming up the former Terminator's tender side. Might California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger be going through a celebrity makeover of sorts to help keep his job? And email exoneration, former FEMA director Michael Brown gives CNN an email alleging president bush made some startling comments just after Hurricane Katrina.
Brown believes it's a smoking gun directly implicating the White House in the post Hurricane Katrina disaster.
And a CNN exclusive. His son is under investigation for possibly killing an innocent Iraqi. But he says his son deserves to be treated like a hero.
And the father is steaming mad at President Bush and others for what he says is a lack of support. You're going to see that. That's coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Zain Verjee is joining us from the CNN Center with a quick look at other stories making news. Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
She's a straight A student and student council member. Her parents say she's never had a boyfriend or been in any trouble. So why did this Michigan teen try to run away to the Palestinian territories to be with a 25-year-old man that she never met?
Apparently she was enticed by something she read on the Web site myspace.com. The FBI tracked her down in Jordan. Now she is on her way back home.
Late this afternoon the State Department announced an international meeting on the strife-torn African nation of Somalia. The talks scheduled for next week are said to be aimed to coordinate efforts to stabilize the failed east African state. On Monday an Islamist clan seized control of the capital, Mogadishu, after battling with the coalition of U.S.-backed warlords. U.S. officials have expressed a concern that Somalia could offer a haven for al Qaeda. President Bush says the clock is ticking on Iran. During a joint news conference with Denmark's Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen the president said Tehran has in his words weeks, not months, to stop enriching uranium. He warns if Iran does not comply the U.N. Security Council could act.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much.
Right now specialists here in Washington are examining the body of an Iraqi man brought from Iraq. U.S. officials asked the dead man's family for approval to dig up the man's body from his grave so they could examine him. He was allegedly shot by U.S. marines in April in Hamandiya in Iraq. CNN's Ted Rowlands spoke exclusively to the father with one of the marines under investigation in California.
And Ted is joining us now live. Ted?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, seven marines and one navy corpsman are in the brig here at Camp Pendleton. They are in solitary confinement. And the father that we talked to of one of the marines is very angry about the way his son and the others are being treated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN JODKA JR., FATHER OF MARINE: They have served honorably and served well.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): Sitting in his living room with a copy of his son's dog tags around his neck, John Jodka talks about getting a collect call two weeks ago from the military prison at Camp Pendleton from his son.
JODKA: I was in disbelief that a person under investigation would be held under confinement.
ROWLANDS: Jodka said his son, who is also named John, and the others being investigated, six marines and a navy corpsman, are being held in solitary confinement while they wait possible charges that could include murder following the death of a 52-year-old Iraqi civilian in the town of Hamandiya, Iraq.
JODKA: He's being treated like a convicted murder. He's not being treated like a potential murderer. Potential murders are often out on bail. And most often are not in solitary confinement.
ROWLANDS: Jodka says he's also upset with what he says is a lack of support from the Marine Corps.
JODKA: While they are being investigated they deserve to be treated like the heroes they are. Like the combat marines that they are. But I know that I'm very disappointed. I think that the marine leadership has turned their backs on the men. ROWLANDS: Jodka says his son hasn't talked to him about what happened but is confident he is innocent and hired a private lawyer. Private first class and the others in the brig are under investigation for not only the civilian death but for a possible cover-up, as well.
Are you worried?
JODKA: I'm terribly worried. Terribly worried.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Now why are these eight service members in solitary confinement in the brig during this investigation? Well the marines have released a statement to address that. They say the evidence that surfaced initially in the investigation warranted the decision to give them -- put them in the brig under maximum constraint. That means solitary.
They get three meals a day but only one hour outside the cells. When they are outside they are restrained. Not only with their cuffs on their hands but also shackled at their legs. The marines say it's because of the evidence they have been able to uncover against these young men. Wolf?
BLITZER: Ted Rowlands in Camp Pendleton in California. Ted, thank you very much. And Ted is going to have a lot more on this story tonight on ANDERSON COOPER 360. That airs 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, he's talking tough on immigration but showing a softer side, as well. We'll show you all that, that the governor is trying to do to keep his job in California. That would be Arnold Schwarzenegger. He'll join our John King for an interview. That's coming up.
And why is a place well known for cheese steaks in the middle of an immigration war? Mary Snow is in Philadelphia. She is going to tell us why. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It's one day after a new FEMA chief was sworn in and one week into the new hurricane season. Yet a storm is brewing from last year's volatile season. The former FEMA director Michael Brown is giving CNN an email alleging candid comments from President Bush in the wake of Katrina.
Our Brian Todd is joining us now. He has details of a story you'll see only here on CNN. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is documentation the Bush administration's public show of support for Michael Brown in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina may not have been what it seemed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD (voice over): Wednesday, August 31, 2005, New Orleans has been submerged for two days. In an interview with Larry King, FEMA director Michael Brown is on the defensive about government failure after Hurricane Katrina.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST Where's the help?
MICHAEL BROWN, FEMA DIRECTOR: Larry, the help is right there, and it's going to be moving in very, very rapidly. I'm going to ask the country to be patient.
TODD: The next day the city still is overwhelmed by chaos and official paralysis. Brown is besieged with criticism. In another CNN interview, he admits he's just finding out about one of the most horrific human catastrophes.
BROWN: The federal government did not even know about the convention center people until today.
TODD: The following day the president declares the federal response is "not acceptable," but voices public support for Brown.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Again, I want to thank you all for -- and Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job. The FEMA director is working 24 ...
(APPLAUSE) TODD: Two days later, Brown's immediate boss, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, is asked by Wolf Blitzer if he still has confidence in his FEMA director.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Look, I think Michael Brown has had a lot of experience, I think he's done a tremendous job under pressure.
TODD: But CNN has obtained an e-mail from three days after that, September 7, 2005, indicating the Bush administration may have been happy that Brown was taking the heat. A high-level White House official close to the president writes to Brown, "I did hear of one reference to you at the cabinet meeting yesterday. I wasn't there, but I heard someone commented that the press was sure beating up on Mike Brown, to which the president replied, 'I'd rather they beat up on him than me or Chertoff.' Congratulations on doing a great job of diverting hostile fire away from the leader."
Michael Brown, through his attorney, provided this email to CNN on the condition that we redact the name, not revealing the identity of its author. CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of the email, but it does have the White House eop.gov designation at the end, signifying Executive Office of the President.
Just two days after that e-mail is sent to Brown, Secretary Chertoff changes his tune.
CHERTOFF: I have directed Mike Brown to return to administering FEMA nationally. And I've appointed Vice Admiral Thad Allen of the Coast Guard as the principal federal official overseeing the Hurricane Katrina response.
TODD: Three days later, Monday, September 12th, Michael Brown resigns as FEMA director. The next day President Bush says this...
BUSH: To the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility.
TODD: Historian Douglas Brinkley, whose recent book chronicles the infighting of state and federal officials after Katrina, says the email is consistent with information he received.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, HISTORIAN: The email clearly shows that the Bush White House and the president himself was trying to scapegoat Michael Brown, who became the human pinata of the entire Katrina debacle.
TODD: But another analyst says traditionally it's the job of people like Michael Brown to absorb criticism for the president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what happens. We have an old saying in Washington: All good news comes from the White House and all bad news come from the departments and agencies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: We contacted a White House spokeswoman for reaction to our story. She replied in an email quote, "This is an old rumor that surfaced months ago and we're not commenting on it. This story has already been reported and I have heard nothing at all that would substantiate it."
Wolf?
BLITZER: Brian Todd, thanks very much.
And just ahead you've seen the email that could be embarrassing to the White House. After the break we'll hear from Michael Brown himself. He'll explain what it means and how he thinks it proves the White House, specifically Michael Chertoff, bears blame.
Also ahead, a lighter, softer side of a former action hero. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is in THE SITUATION ROOM. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. We want to return to the story we just aired which could be embarrassing to the White House. In a story you'll see only here on CNN the former FEMA director Michael Brown is giving CNN an email alleging candid comments from President Bush in the wake of Katrina.
So what might the email mean?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Joining us here is the former FEMA director Michael Brown. He's joined by his attorney Andy Lester. Gentlemen, thanks very much for coming in. You did give us this email, Michael Brown, is that right?
BROWN: That's right, Wolf.
BLITZER: Why?
BROWN: Well, because I'm frankly getting tired of Chertoff out there every time he testifies talking about how Brown didn't do this or that or he's trying to act independently. And as long as Chertoff continues to criticize me I think we need to recognize I was doing everything I needed to do down there. And this kind of e-mail just shows that while I was willing to take the sword for the president which is, your reporter said, is the job of a political appointee I'm not willing to take that sword for Michael Chertoff.
BLITZER: The president in the email it specifically says the person who wrote it says I wasn't there. This is hearsay from the individual who wrote this email.
BROWN: Right.
BLITZER: Do you have any reason to know for sure that it was said by the president at this Cabinet meeting?
BROWN: Well, there's no doubt in my mind that it was, because it's a good friend of the president, it's someone that's been with the president a long time. Frankly, I consider him a friend, and that's why I won't give you his name.
But, yes, there's no question in my mind this e-mail is authentic. It came off my e-mail that I provided to the attorney for all of the hearings.
BLITZER: But in your giving us this e-mail, you're not really going after Chertoff as much as potentially embarrassing the president.
BROWN: Well, it could embarrass the president, but frankly, as long as we're going to continue to play this game of every time the administration talks about what worked or didn't work, I'm not going to sit back and continue to take those stabs. I was doing everything I could down there, and as long as we have this debate about what should happen to FEMA in the future, I'm going to be outspoken about that.
BLITZER: Were you just being a good soldier? Is that what you're saying?
BROWN: Absolutely. That's one of the jobs that you have to do. But being a good soldier means that the captains and the generals support you in being a good soldier.
BLITZER: Now Andy Lester is your attorney. Tell me why you wanted to come to this interview.
ANDY LESTER, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN: Well, this e-mail I saw several months ago. It showed something that was a very different picture, frankly, than even I was even aware of, because what it shows is that -- not that the White House was, as I frankly thought, cowardly in not backing up Mike, but what the White House was actually doing was taking some stories that got started in the media and pushing them and pushing them until everything got diverted to Mike.
BLITZER: So, in other words, what you're saying is that Mike Brown was being made the scapegoat.
LESTER: Mike Brown was being made the scapegoat. Wolf, I'm a lifelong Republican. I was on Ronald Reagan's transition team. I'm very disappointed in this White House for doing this and doing it in a cowardly way.
They've been doing it all along. They did it back when he testified before the Senate. You may recall they asked him not to -- not to answer questions. Well, that's a crime.
BLITZER: The White House says this is an old story, it's an old rumor, it's been reported. You actually wrote about this in "Human Events".
LESTER: I wrote about it in "Human Events" a couple of months ago, that's correct. It's not an old story, it needs to be out there. The public needs to know.
BLITZER: What we have that's beyond what you wrote in "Human Events" is the actual copy of this e-mail in which the suggestion is made. And let me read it one more time in case our viewers don't remember.
The e-mail says, "I did hear of one reference to you at the cabinet meeting yesterday. I wasn't there, but I heard someone commented that the press was sure beating up on Mike Brown, to which the president replied, 'I'd rather they beat up on him than me or Chertoff.' Congratulations of doing a great job of diverting hostile fire away from the leader."
Now, you have asked us not to disclose the identity of this White House official. Why is that?
BROWN: Well, because he's been an incredibly good supporter of mine, he's always been up front and honest with me, and his name has not been mentioned anywhere in any of the hearings or anything else. And I just don't want to drag him into it. He doesn't deserve to be dragged into it.
BLITZER: But you have to assume the White House knows who wrote this e-mail. They can do a quick check...
BROWN: Oh, absolutely.
BLITZER: ... and find out that this individual wrote this e- mail.
BROWN: Absolutely. That's right.
BLITZER: So you knew it was going to come back to him.
BROWN: Absolutely. No question.
BLITZER: Do you feel like you could endanger his career or anything like that?
BROWN: It's not endangering his career. It's just that this is about -- I want the White House in general, particularly Michael Chertoff to stop dragging me through the mud every time the issue of FEMA comes up. There's a lot of things that need to be done to fix FEMA, and continuing to throw that at me is not going to solve anything.
BLITZER: Your job was at that time, like all people who work for the president, especially political appointees, to serve the president and protect the president in this kind of criticism.
BROWN: Absolutely. Absolutely, Wolf.
BLITZER: So you were ready to do that. When you read this e- mail it's possible that the president did say that in the cabinet meeting. He may have been joking, too. He might not necessarily have been serious.
BROWN: That's absolutely true, but the point is, it seems to me to be a pattern of what the administration is doing. Look, every time that Michael Chertoff -- just yesterday in GovernmentExec.com, talking about whether FEMA should be pulled out or not, and continues to berate me in those stories. He needs to stop that.
BLITZER: You want him to step down, you want him to resign. You told me that on this program just a few weeks ago.
BROWN: Right. Right. He either -- look, you have the political -- you have the political -- he's not serving the president correctly. You have the political tone deafness of the grants, you know, being kept in New York City and other places. That could have been handled so much better. He could have come in and at least told the American public why you're doing this.
Let's assume for a minute it's the right thing to do. Why shouldn't we know the basis upon which those grants were cut?
And then he testifies in front of the homeland security committee that, well, the real problem with FEMA was not that it was in DHS but Michael Brown.
BLITZER: What happens to this Michael Brown? What happens to Michael Brown right now? Is he in any kind of legal danger or problem? I mean you obviously wanted to be here.
LESTER: Absolutely not. But here's the thing. Here's what's happened. Mike Brown was blamed for everything. He became the poster boy of everything that went wrong, and then, as you recall, the video tapes came out, and I think actually that was right after they came out that you had Mike on this -- on this show.
Those videotapes showed that Mike Brown was doing precisely what he was supposed to be doing. In fact, he seems to have been the only top level official that was doing that.
The reason I wanted this e-mail to be out there, I wanted it to be public, is because it shows an attitude that has been going on at this White House now for, certainly, the whole time since Katrina made landfall.
BLITZER: Is it part -- releasing this e-mail -- is it part of the rehabilitation of Michael Brown?
BROWN: Absolutely. But you know, I'm not still in a campaign to do that, because, Wolf, the business is going well. There's clients out there. You know, just yesterday I had a meeting with St. Bernard Parish, some folks from there, about things that they need to do and how they might -- some strategies they might use. So I think the videotapes and everything else has been rehabilitative.
It really has more to do with it's time to stop this issue about Mike Brown when it comes to what needs to be done to FEMA. Let's deal with the facts and the policies that need to be corrected.
BLITZER: David Paulison has been now sworn in as the new FEMA director. He says the country, the federal government is ready for another hurricane, and we're in the hurricane season right now. Is the federal government -- is FEMA, your old agency, ready?
BROWN: Well, I don't think so based on what the people inside the agency tell me, and it really worries me that when I talk to Junior Rodriguez, for example, from St. Bernard Parish, he talks to me about 26,000 homes, 20,000 of which have not been gutted and cleaned up yet, rats the size of Chihuahuas down there.
Look, in the previous workings of FEMA we cleaned up Ground Zero, under budget and in a short schedule. We cleaned up Florida within a good time period. But in St. Bernard Parish, it's still not happening. It needs to happen.
BLITZER: Let me follow up on a GAO report that came out yesterday, the Government Accountability Office. "FEMA and the Red Cross disagreed about their roles and responsibilities, and this disagreement strained working relationships and hampered their efforts to coordinate relief services for hurricane victims."
This is the first I've heard that FEMA and the American Red Cross were at odds in the aftermath of this disaster.
BROWN: They were, and I can tell you, Marty Evans, the previous president and I, tried to resolve some of those at a very high level. I have since, after leaving FEMA, worked with the Red Cross and given them several ideas of things they might do. It was also a function of, for example, the Department of Homeland Security, throwing the national response plan out there, and The Red Cross not fully understanding what DHS wanted them to do, and DHS not understanding what the Red Cross should do.
So I've given them some advice about what we could do, what they might do in the future to solve those. But there was. There was a conflict that Marty and I tried to solve that was just impossible to do.
BLITZER: Michael Brown is the former FEMA director. Andy Lester is his attorney from Oklahoma. Thanks to both of you from coming in.
BROWN: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this footnote: We contacted the Department of Homeland Security for a response to what Michael Brown had to say a few minutes ago. They got back to us with a simple quote -- "as of now," they said, "we don't have anything." If we get a more complete response, we of course will bring it to you.
Up ahead, does California's governor see eye to eye with President Bush on immigration? A candid conversation with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
And there may be a lot at stake over a simple steak sandwich. One Philadelphia landmark says customers must order their cheese steaks in English. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: For the second time in three years, Arnold Schwarzenegger is back on the campaign trail. This time he's stumping for a full term as California's governor, but he's sounding some very different notes this time around. Our chief national correspondent John King sat down with Schwarzenegger for a candid interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tell me how this job has changed you. You came in, everyone focused on the action hero who says he is going to Sacramento to blow up the boxes. Now people say you are more conciliatory, reaching out to the Democrats a little more, pushing for more incremental change, perhaps. Humbled by the job?
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: No. I am a daring person. I will tackle any problem, but I have made mistakes and I have learned from those mistakes. And no matter what you do, if you're in politics or if you're competing for the world championships in bodybuilding or if you're doing a movie and you pick one with the wrong script, you learn from those various different mistakes.
And I have rushed things. That was my big problem in the beginning. I've rushed things and I thought that anyone that was in my way or was not agreeing is the enemy, and it was the wrong approach and I've learned from that now. We are working together, Democrats and Republicans are working together. It is a miracle what we've accomplished this year, already.
KING: You talked about the immigration problem. It's critical to your state. It's also probably the biggest issue in national politics right now. We come here from down in the San Diego area where you just had the special election.
The Republican who won that district says that he won because he turned his race around by telling the people of that district the president is wrong, the Senate is wrong, no amnesty, focus on border security, no guest worker program that puts people on a path to citizenship.
Is that the right message on immigration?
SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, maybe it was the right message for him in order to win, but I think what is important is that number one, we pay attention to our borders. We've got to secure the borders and we have to put the pressure on the federal government and we have to do everything we can to solve this problem this year.
KING: You had some reservations about the president's plan to send in the National Guard. I think you have worked those out. But is that a gimmick, in your view, an election year political gimmick or is that something that is needed and will help strengthen the borders?
SCHWARZENEGGER: When the president called and when the White House called and when Secretary Chertoff called, the idea of sending National Guard to the border was half baked and I told them that. And I told them that. It's an idea that's half baked. I said let's not rush those things.
You can't just go and send, you know, the National Guard to the borders -- to do what? What is -- how long are they staying down there? Who is going to pay for it? How do we make sure that the people, the brave men and women that come back from Iraq are not going to get sent to the borders?
All of those issues have to be addressed, and do we make sure that they're not going to be carrying guns around because, you know, south of our border is not the enemy. Mexico are our friends, so we have to make sure there's a certain sensitivity about all of this also at the same time.
And it's also important that we know what is really the mission and what happens if you don't get enough border patrols in time of two-and-a-half years from now. Do we stay there? Because usually, as you know, with military missions they are always supposed to be short term and then they stay forever.
KING: Do you think it was half baked, in your words, because they were rushing it because of the election year political climate? SCHWARZENEGGER: You know, I don't want to second guess why was it half baked. I think for them it maybe was baked, but every governor has their own challenges and has different needs, so I think what they should have done is -- if anything, is talk to us first and say come to Washington and let's work this out. Here's what the mission is and let's work this out so everyone is in agreement and then announce it.
So what they've done is they've jumped a little bit the gun. Look, they are not intentionally trying to, you know, screw things up in Washington. I mean, you know, they're all working very hard. They're doing their thing and I think that that's why we have to just work with them, be helpful, and assist when there's an emergency like that.
KING: How do you react when you hear these people saying just build a wall, build a fence across from the Pacific to the Atlantic? Build a wall.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, I think that that is not thought through because walls, as we have seen with the 40 tunnels that have been discovered, doesn't really help the situation if you have a wall because you can build the tunnels. They could drive trucks through, from one warehouse in Mexico to another warehouse in the United States.
Look, if we can send a vehicle to Mars and if we can land a man on the moon and if we can do all of these incredible things that we are developing, we can find a way of securing the border and, at the same time, not making it appear like there's an enemy south of our borders.
KING: I am going to ask you lastly about your assessment of the national political climate. It's a pretty foul mood right now. The president's poll numbers are down, but the Democrats' numbers are down too. You mentioned your own recalibrating to get back on the path here, that you think you're past your mistakes.
A lot of people think this is the perfect opportunity, given the disgust with politics in general, for a third party presidential candidate in 2008. Do you think -- is the mood that bad or is that necessarily bad and is there anyway Arnold Schwarzenegger could support a third party candidacy?
SCHWARZENEGGER: Well, first of all, let me just say that there's more people that are leaving both parties and becoming independents. And we have seen it in California. We see it all over the United States because people are fed up with politics as usual. People are fed up that they only argue in Washington or they argue in Sacramento, whatever capital it is. People want to see action. People want to see results.
Does it have to be, you know, 100 percent of the results? No, but just coming with some results because everyone understands that if you have two parties and different opinions that you always come in with a compromise, something that is a watered down version, but come in with something. Don't just always fight.
Every single time you open up the papers it's about the fight, about the partisanship, that you can't get a job as a Democrat if you are now in Washington. That this and the Republicans are attacking here and the Democrats are always ready to strike to attack the Republicans.
What is that? I mean, why are we not thinking more about what is best for the country and how can we build California, how can we build the whole nation, and how can we work together rather than always how do we fight each other. And so people are upset about it and so I don't blame them for it and I think this is why I don't fall into this trap.
KING: Could you see yourself supporting some third-party effort to break the national mold?
SCHWARZENEGGER: You know, that depends on who that is, and all that -- but I mean, I think that we can do it in a traditional way with the two parties, but we've got to improve. The Democrats got to improve their way of looking at things and doing things; the Republicans have to improve. They've got to define things in ways of working together, rather that working against each other. And the whole thing is about derailing.
I think that the rest of the nation -- I think that Washington should actually learn something from California, because we are in an election year, and Democrats and Republicans came together and have worked through and have accomplished a lot this year, more than in the previous year, and on top of it, an infrastructure package of $37 billion, the biggest in the history -- an election year, in an election year.
So it shows that if there's a will, there's a way, and you can do it. That's what they should do in Washington.
KING: Governor, I've taken too much time. Thank you very much.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: John King, part of the best political team on television. CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
Up ahead, a new skirmish in the border battle at a Philadelphia landmark. Why are immigration and cheese steak on a collision course?
Plus, the Democrats want to kick Representative William Jefferson off a key committee in Congress. Justified or racist? Your thoughts, coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The cheese steak is a symbol of Philadelphia but now, get this, it's become a symbol over the battle involving illegal immigration. Our Mary Snow is in what they used to call the city of brotherly love. I assume they still call it that Mary, but tell our viewers what is going on behind you.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, some tension in the city of brotherly love and it's all over a sign that says "This is America. When ordering, speak English."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): The biggest debate at Geno's is whether you will take cheese whiz or provolone on your cheese steak. But now a whole new kind of debate is heating up at this famous Philadelphia cheese steak landmark after owner Joey Vento, who has run this business for 40 years, put up a sign in December requiring customers to place orders in English only.
JOEY VENTO, GENO'S OWNER: I'll take that stand. I'll be the poster child. I'll lead the charge.
SNOW (on camera): And how about the debate on illegal immigration. Where would you take a stand there?
VENTO: Ship them all back.
SNOW (voice-over): Geno's is a Philadelphia icon, serving countless famous customers, including Bill Clinton and Rudy Giuliani. Because of Geno's status in the city the debate is gaining plenty of attention.
VENTO: I'm a proud American. I want everybody to speak English. I didn't see anything wrong with that.
SNOW: But, some in the community see a different meaning.
LIZA RODRIGUEZ, "JUNTOS" COMMUNITY OUTREACH: It's a way of saying no Mexicans allowed or no Latino immigrants allowed.
SNOW: Community leaders say there's a growing number of Mexicans in the city. Some, including a city councilman, say the English only rule is targeting them, as the nation debates illegal immigration. Emotions run so high a passerby interrupted one of our interviews to weigh in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a private establishment and he has the right to refuse service to anybody he wants. If I'm not wearing a shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like 15 years ago when they had signs that said whites only.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But, it doesn't say no Mexican.
SNOW: Vento says he won't turn anyone away.
VENTO: When you coming to Geno's even though you don't speak English doesn't mean you're not going to get served. SNOW: Vento says he will actually help customers with a translation but not everyone in the community is convinced.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Underneath the sign it says management has the right to refuse service, and the two of them combine together if you read it in English sends a message.
SNOW (on camera): A city councilman here in Philadelphia has asked him to take down the sign. But, Vento says the sign stays. Wolf?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Mary, enjoy a cheese steak, Philadelphia, thanks very much. Your report is making me hungry.
Let's find out what is coming up at the top of the hour. Paula is standing by, hi Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: It's spreading, Wolf. Our stomachs are growling here to. Tonight, we have a special hour for you. We're going to explore some amazing mysteries of the mind. We will meet incredibly brave children who struggle with Tourette's syndrome, a disorder that causes body movement they can't control. Also a baffling disorder that causes thousands of people to spend every waking moment feeling hungry. Why aren't they satisfied no matter how much they eat, sometimes 10,000 calorie a day?
Plus people with permanent jet lag. Why can't they adjust their body clocks? Some of the mysteries of the mind we'll explore at the top of the hour. We hope you join us then, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much Paula, we will.
Still ahead, is it justified or is it racist to kick Congressman William Jefferson off a key committee? Your e-mail and Jack Cafferty coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go to Jack in New York with The Cafferty File, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks Wolf, the Democrats want to kick Congressman William Jefferson off the Ways and Means Committee. He was found to have had $90,000 in hiss freezer by the FBI and is apparently implicated in some way in an alleged sting operation.
Would kicking him off the committee be justified or would that be racist?
Sonia in Staten Island, "please tell Representative William Jefferson that I certainly don't want him kicked off the Ways and Means Committee because he's black; I want him kicked off the committee because he's a crook. Thank you." Sonny in Brunswick, Georgia, "When did the courts find him guilty? Sounds like racist politics to me, but if he is found guilty, he should go to jail."
Paula in Albuquerque, "Why does 'racist' according to some, usually mean that the truth is 'uncomfortably close?' A Congressman who appears to be corrupt and inappropriate regardless of race, should have the decency to step down, and if he fails to do what is right, he should be given help."
Greg in Texas, "Jefferson is monumental embarrassment. As a black man, I see no racial discrimination here. I am deeply ashamed of this man's behavior. I feel he should resign, hang his head in shame, and retire from public life before he goes to prison. Maybe he can share a cell with Duke Cunningham."
Scott in Cambridge, Massachusetts, "Are you kidding me? I don't think Congressman Jefferson's allegedly ill-gotten money was black or white. If the Congressional Black Caucus pushes to hard on this, it could backfire in a major way. I think it's the wrong battle for them to pick."
And Douglas in Seattle, "Jefferson needs to go. He's a crook and an embarrassment to the Democratic Party. Bribery knows no color except green."
Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, have a great weekend. Thanks very much. Join me tomorrow night, 7:00 PM Eastern, for a Week at War, special report on all the big news in Iraq. That's coming up tomorrow night. And among my guests Sunday on "LATE EDITION," Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. Until then thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up next, Paula Zahn in Washington and Paula is standing by, Paula.
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