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President Bush Says Missile Tests Further Isolate North Korea; China Issues Mild Rebuke to Pyongyang; U.N. Security Council Holds Talks on Missile Tests; Effectiveness of U.S. Missile Defense System; Atlantic City Casinos Are Dark; Presidential Recount in Mexico
Aired July 05, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, a global response to North Korea's missile defiance. It's 5:00 a.m. Thursday in Pyongyang, where a seventh test firing has only added to the international outrage. How hard are the United States and its allies willing to push back?
Also this hour. new battlefields in the immigration war. It's 4:00 p.m. in suburban Washington, where President Bush took the fight to the donut shop. Outside the capital, the House and Senate hold dueling hearings on rival plans for reform. But will these road shows lead anywhere?
And all bets are off in New Jersey. It's 4:00 p.m. in Atlantic City, where the state government shutdown now has closed casino doors. Wolf Blitzer is off today, I'm John King, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
If North Korea is trying to pick a fight directly with the United States, well the Bush administration is trying hard not to take the bait. Right now the president and other top officials are pushing an international response to the volley of test missiles launched by Pyongyang. Members of the United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting today aimed at punishing North Korea, while at the same time trying to bring it back to the bargaining table.
CNN's Richard Roth is standing by at the United Nations. But first though, here's CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry. Ed?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, from the president on, down the White House is all about trying to calm this situation down. They're playing down the threat from North Korea, playing up the support they're getting from allies.
In short, just the opposite of how they handled the standoff with Iraq before that war. An administration accused of not going the extra mile diplomatically in Iraq and getting wrapped up in a Washington/Baghdad standoff is now all about stressing that this is not Washington versus Pyongyang.
And an administration once accused of thumbing its nose at the United Nations is all about embracing the security council, which met in that emergency session today to consider a resolution rebuking North Korea. And the president himself today stressed the U.S. is not going alone, putting the onus squarely on North Korean dictator Kim Jong-il.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must work together to continue to work hard to convince the North Korean leader to give up any weapons programs. They've agreed to do that in the past, and we will hold them to account, and I also strongly believe that it is much more effective to have more than one nation dealing with North Korea. It's more effective for them to hear from a group of nations rather than one nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: A strikingly different tone from the rhetoric we heard on Iraq and while the White House was accused of rushing to war in Iraq, in this case they're all about trying to reassure Americans that there's not a great threat from North Korea and also insisting the U.S. is not on the brink of another military conflict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are attempts to try to describe this almost in breathless World War III terms. This is not such a situation. This is a situation in which people are working with the regime in North Korea, trying to reason with the dictator, to step back from provocative activities. That is the most important thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: But former Clinton official Wendy Sherman says that it's not enough for the U.S. to fall back on this strategy of demanding that North Korea get back to the six-party talks. She's charging the White House failed by not taking a more assertive role in the diplomacy, in the diplomatic efforts earlier in the process, that they will need to take a more direct role moving ahead. Interesting place for the White House to be with Democrats charging that they should actually take a more direct, robust role in foreign policy, John.
KING: And Ed, predictable I think for the public line to be stick with the six-party talks, we're not going to budge after this provocation from North Korea. Any indication at all as the six-party talks near the three-year point with such little progress that the White House is willing to change either its approach in terms of the process or its approach in terms of the proposal on the table?
HENRY: Absolutely no sign that they're willing to change that approach. One reason may be that there's really not a better approach that they or their allies at this point can come up with. The bottom line is that the White House is very content to fall back right now at least for now on the United Nations, but also stressing the role of others, urging China, for example, to take a more direct role as well, not just letting it fall back on the United States, urging others in the six-party talks to really step up here, John.
KING: Ed Henry for us at the White House -- Ed, thank you very much.
And top U.S. diplomats today were praising allied nations for standing together, as Ed noted, against North Korea's act of defiance. Assistant secretary of state Christopher Hill is calling the international response, "unprecedented." He spoke to CNN just before heading to Asia to meet with allies involved in those stalled talks with North Korea. And today, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice also is pressing North Korea to stop taunting the world with its missile activity and start talking or pay a price.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The international community does have at its disposal a number of tools to make it more difficult for North Korea to engage in this kind of brinkmanship and to engage in the continued pursuit of its nuclear weapons programs and its missile programs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: At the United Nations, the security council is considering a draft resolution designed to put an economic squeeze on North Korea's missile program.
CNN's Richard Roth is at the United Nations. Richard, the security council is meeting, it is considering a proposal. But what can it actually do? North Korea, as you know well, has very little in terms of economic dealings with the rest of the world and its leader Kim Jong-il has not in the past seemed to care much about what the world has said about his behavior.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: The resolution that is now being considered does consider sanctions as a possibility, and North Korea would have to worry this time if China or Russia came aboard in a significant way, even joining going forward, giving Pyongyang the idea that it's not business as usual.
In 1998, the security council passed a simple statement after a missile launch and perhaps North Korea again emboldened by the failure of the international community diplomatically to get tough. It will mean something if China and Russia inch along, as they have been on the Iran nuclear issue.
KING: Richard, let's explore that a bit further then. What are the early indications? You better than anyone know this process. They meet, they start drafting, they haggle over drafts. But any indications that Russia and China, especially China, which the United States says is the key player here, is willing to be more forceful, willing to stand up to Pyongyang on this one.
ROTH: Well the early indications are the same as we got with Tehran. They're not willing to back anything with sanctions. Let's not rush to judgment, they said. But China has a lot at stake with North Korea. Of course, it's the biggest provider of oil and energy and humanitarian aid, but China does not want a nuclear Pacific Korean peninsula. There's fear there that Taiwan, Japan could go nuclear if North Korea continues down its path. China wants stability in that region, it has a lot more to be worried about perhaps than missiles coming from Tehran in that crisis.
KING: Richard Roth for us at the United Nations. Richard, thank you very much.
And our Zain Verjee joins us now with a look at world reaction to the North Korean missile launches. Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, John. Three key countries in the region are expressing concern over yesterday's test. China, which waited a full 15 hours after the first missiles were launched before issuing an official reaction is now adding to the calls for restraint in a mildly worded statement which doesn't mention North Korea by name. The Chinese foreign ministry says all sides should, quote, "not take any actions to escalate or complicate the situation."
South Korea is now softening its initial terse reaction to the test. A recent statement from the office of President Roh Moo-Hyun calls on North Korea to, quote, "stop such provocative acts." The statement urges Pyongyang to engage in dialogue with the international community. Earlier in the day, some South Korean officials indicated that Seoul may be reconsidering its plans for talks with the North.
Japan is following up its swift condemnation of the tests with limited sanctions on Pyongyang. The steps announced earlier today won't effect extensive food aid provided by Japan to North Korea. Japan's ambassador to the U.N. outlined the new restrictions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENZO OSHIMA, JAPANESE AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: On a bilateral basis, the government has announced a series of measures against North Korea, such as ban on the entry of North Korean ships into Japanese ports and ban on travels of officials in North Korea to Japan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: Japan's also calling for a unified international response to the North Korean test -- John.
KING: Thank you, Zain. Let's bring now our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton into the conversation. She has more on how newspapers around the world are reacting to North Korea's latest move. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: John, North Korea plays the missile card. That's the headline from North Korea's neighbors to the south. "The Korea Herald" saying that test is a blow to inter-Korean relations and one in sharp defiance of international warnings.
In Japan, the focus there on the stern action from the Japanese government. Other papers there focusing on the sanctions already slapped on North Korea by Japan. The Russian news agency "Interfax" and also at the Chinese "People's Daily," both of those, essentially reporting the lines that their government, which is expressing concern and simultaneously urging restraint from all the parties.
At North Korean's owned -- state owned news agency, no mention of the tests online. Although a post dated yesterday accuses the U.S. imperialists of endangering world peace. That post, that report from yesterday not untypical of that site -- John.
KING: Not at all. Abbi Tatton, thank you very much.
Now, the Pentagon says it was prepared to take drastic action and use a new missile defense system if North Korea fired that long-range missile in a way that threatened the United States. It didn't come to that. The long-range missile failed less than a minute into its flight. But had it been a threat, could the United States have shot it down?
Here's our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the launch were an attack, could we shoot down the North Korean missile, a feat described as the equivalent of stopping one moving bullet using another moving bullet? There have been 10 tests of the U.S. interceptor. Only half have worked.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: If the missile defense system was a baseball player, and had a batting average of .500, you'd say it was doing pretty good. If it's only working half of the time, and it's the only thing standing between you and an incoming hydrogen bomb, you'd say it's not working very well at all.
STARR: The five tests that failed, one as recently as last February, had various technical problems. Pentagon officials say those have been solved, and they are now confident that missiles would work during an attack, mainly because there were four consecutive, successful hits against target missiles in 2001 and 2002.
But that was four years ago. Since then, much of the technology has been upgraded. But one defense official familiar with the program acknowledges the major criticism, that the testing done so far is not realistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All systems are go for launch. Standby for terminal count.
STARR: That it's all been scripted out ahead of time, as most weapons tests are. Analysts say the U.S. may still have problems shooting down anything more complex than a single warhead. The biggest risk still may be the continuing uncertainty about North Korea's real intentions.
PIKE: And it's possible that one day they'll provoke a crisis, get in over their head, and suddenly we'll find ourselves in a shooting war with them. Under those circumstances, you might hope that you had a reliable missile defense, because they might not prove completely deterrable.
STARR (on camera): Later this summer, a new round of anti- missile testing by the U.S. will begin. Officials say that round will be more realistic testing to try and make sure that all of the technology works in the future, in case there is an attack.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And time now for "The Cafferty File." Jack Cafferty joins us from New York, of course. Hi, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, John.
It didn't take the U.N. Security Council long to meet after North Korea fired off those seven test missiles. They discussed a draft resolution proposed by Japan which demands the countries cut off any funds or materials that could be used for North Korea's missile program.
No vote is expected today, but when they do vote there could be opposition from China, North Korea's biggest providing of food, oil, and economic aid. The U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton, emphasized no member of the Security Council defended what the North Koreans did, and he says that means there's little support for that country on the global stage.
So here's the question: What should the United Nations' role be when it comes to North Korea? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- John.
KING: This one may be a debate as much about the U.N. than it is about North Korea, Jack. We'll see.
CAFFERTY: All right.
KING: Thank you, Jack.
And if you want a sneak preview of Jack's questions, plus an early read on the day's political news and what's ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, sign up for our daily e-mail alert. Just go to CNN.com/situationroom.
Coming up, Atlantic City's casinos close their doors, and New Jersey state parks and beaches shut down as well. Coming up, a political standoff brings the sound of science to the Garden State.
He was convicted of being behind one of the biggest frauds in U.S. history, but Ken Lay will never see jail time. Details on the former Enron founder's death when we return.
And how should the United States react to the North Korean missile test? I'll ask James Carville and Torie Clarke in today's "Strategy Session."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: In New Jersey today, Governor Jon Corzine's budget showdown with state lawmakers is being felt in a costly new way. Atlantic City casinos now are dark, the latest targets of a government shutdown now in its fifth day. Corzine went before the state legislature today to again defend his high stakes push for a sales tax hike that lawmakers so far aren't buying.
Our Mary Snow is in Atlantic City with the impact of all this budget shutdown -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, it's rare you see this. You see behind me the slot machines, all silent. It's a virtual ghost town in this casino, this after an unprecedented move today when the state ordered the 12 casinos here in Atlantic City to be shut down by 8:00 this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): This time it was the state and not the dealers calling the last bet at Atlantic City's casinos, ordering the gambling to stop. A budget standoff forced their hand, and holdouts who thought the shutdown threat was only a bluff were down right angry.
JARED HYMAN, CASINO PATRON: Yes, I live in Washington, D.C., and I won't be coming back any time soon.
CAROLE SORANI, CASINO PATRON: This is, like, totally outrageous. OK, I don't understand what the budget has to do with the casinos.
SNOW: New Jersey's 12 casinos are only allowed to operate with state monitors on sight. Because those monitors are considered non- essential state workers, they're temporarily out of work as part of a government shutdown ordered by Governor Jon Corzine.
GOV. JON CORZINE (D), NEW JERSEY: My hands are tied. This is exactly what is wrong with this entire debate. I can't simply make things up because we don't like the consequences of the laws we created.
SNOW: That debate has focused on how to narrow a $4.5 billion deficit. Many question the logic of closing casinos since they are cash cows, generating at least $1.2 million a day in tax revenue.
TOMMY STATHOPOULOS, CASINO PATRON: Self-inflicting this kind of pain on ourselves, I believe it's an embarrassment.
SNOW: Some blame first-time governor, Democrat Jon Corzine, others blame assembly Democrats who don't see eye to eye with him. Some in the industry bet this casino shutdown could deal its own hand down the road. .
JOSEPH WEINERT, SPECTRUM GAMING GROUP: If this shutdown becomes prolonged, people will remember the next election.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now because the casino shutdown is just one part of an overall shutdown that began late last week -- this is day five -- also today they shut down state beaches, state parks, the state's racetracks, and also historic sites. All told, about 45,000 state workers have been furloughed -- John.
KING: And so, Mary, casinos shut down, workers furloughed, beaches closed. Any movement from the politicians at all?
SNOW: We're hearing this afternoon that the assembly speaker in Trenton met with the governor, and the assembly speak and governor haven't seen eye to eye, and that's really had this standoff and this effect. He is meeting now with fellow members of the assembly, and his office says they're trying to work out this crisis. Also we know that some of these casino owners have gone to Trenton to try to force their hand at resolving a crisis. So there have been a lot of closed door meetings today.
KING: Mary Snow for us in a colorful but unusually quiet Atlantic City casino. Mary, thank you very much.
And our Zain Verjee joins us now with a closer look at other stories making news.
Hi, Zain.
VERJEE: Hi, again, John.
Enron founder Kenneth Lay died earlier today in Aspen, Colorado. According to his pastor, he suffered a massive heart attack early this morning. Just over a month ago, Lay was found guilty of ten counts of fraud and conspiracy related to the collapse of the Texas energy company Enron. The company's downfall cost 4,000 employees their jobs, and many lost their life savings, as well. Lay was scheduled for sentencing in October.
With troops massed along the border with Gaza, Israel is stepping up the pressure on the Palestinian government and militants. Israel's security cabinet issued a statement just hours ago, saying it's preparing to bring about a change in the rules of the game. And Israeli television is now reporting for the second straight day, a rocket fired from Gaza hit the Israeli town of Ashkelon. Israel's prime minister calls it "a major escalation of violence."
Six people are dead after a car bomb exploded in central Baghdad this afternoon. Nineteen people were wounded in the blast. Separately, Iraq's prime minister is calling for Iraqi involvement in investigating the killings of four Iraqis by U.S. troops in March.
A U.S. soldier's been charged with rape and murder in connection with the incident in the town of Mahmoudiyah. Military investigators say other troops may have been involved. Prime Minister Nuri al- Maliki now says there should be an independent Iraqi investigation or a joint Iraqi/U.S. probe.
NASA says that the Space Shuttle Discovery is in good condition, despite losing some insulating foam during yesterday's liftoff. Shuttle astronauts are using a robotic arm to pore over the vessel for damage. Shuttle program managers say that most foam pieces spotted yesterday were small and only one appeared to actually strike the aircraft -- John.
KING: Thank you very much, Zain. We'll see you a bit later.
And coming up, why did President Bush stop off at a Dunkin' Donuts today? No, not for the coffee. The answer and how it fits into the battle over illegal immigration, when we return.
Plus, the vote counting continues in Mexico. It's been three days since Mexico's presidential election and still no winner.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. Wolf Blitzer is off. I'm John King in Washington. Here in Washington, Congress is in recess and at an impasse over ways to deal with millions of illegal immigrants in this country. But today the key players are fighting that heated election year battle on some new fronts.
Our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel has all the new developments in the immigration wars.
Hi, Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John.
Well, only days before lawmakers left on that break, there were signals that Senate Republicans were working up a possible compromise to smooth over differences with the House. But that didn't stop House and Senate Republicans from going ahead with potentially divisive hearings outside of Washington today, hearings that prompted President Bush to get involved.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): Immigration was on the menu during President Bush's quick stop at this Virginia Dunkin' Donuts. Flanked by the store's Iranian-American owners and some of their foreign-born employees, Mr. Bush insisted immigration reform must include a guest worker program and a realistic solution for the millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S.
BUSH: We're not going to be able to deport people who have been here working hard and raising their families. So I want to work with Congress to come up with a rational -- rational way forward.
KOPPEL: The president's latest appeal was clearly timed to coincide with competing hearings as Republicans in the House and Senate continue to battle over immigration legislation.
In San Diego, California, before an audience packed with Border Patrol agents, House Republicans underscored the need to beef up border security ASAP.
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: Let's get going, let's do our job so that these people down at the border can do their job and stop this invasion of the United States, which is hurting the American people.
KOPPEL: But California Democrat Brad Sherman accused Republicans of staging political theater.
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: These hearings are not designed to legislate; they're designed to whip up public opinion.
KOPPEL: Meanwhile in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Republican Senator Arlen Specter choreographed this hearing to highlight the benefits of immigrant labor to the U.S. economy. Among those called to testify, Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York City, home to millions of immigrants.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK: Although they broke the law by illegally crossing our borders or overstaying their visas, and our businesses broke the law by employing them, our city's economy would be a shell of itself had they not, and it would collapse if they were deported.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: But so far House Republicans remain opposed to offering these illegal immigrants an earned pass to citizenship, what they call amnesty, and they plan to continue to hammer away at that and other provisions in the Senate bill with a series of additional field hearings. The next one is scheduled for Friday, John, in Laredo, Texas -- John.
KING: Andrea, the president had that event today and his legislative director also went on the record, saying the president would accept triggers, meaning secure the border first and only after the money was spent and people were satisfied with border security, then would you start dealing with the guest worker program. Any indication that that concession by the White House, at least on timing, might help us get closer to a compromise?
KOPPEL: Well, it's certainly one that you heard some Senate Republicans like Arlen Specter and John McCain talking about just before they headed out for break, and it's one that they had been speaking to various House Republicans, like James Sensenbrenner, who's the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. Nevertheless, we saw earlier this week, Sensenbrenner wrote an op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal," continuing to dig in his heels, talking about border security first and it sounds like only right now -- John.
KING: Only for now, and the rhetoric continues. Andrea Koppel, thank you very much. In Mexico, a marathon recount now is under way in the closest presidential election in that nation's history. The main leftist candidate is accusing the conservative ruling party of fraud and is refusing to concede without a ballot-by-ballot review. It's all stirring fears of political chaos and possible violence.
CNN's Chris Lawrence is in Tijuana, Mexico.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, people here are waiting to hear which man is their president. But accusations of voter fraud, double counting votes, millions of missing ballots, could throw this entire election into chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): It's one of the closest, fiercest political battles in Mexico's history. And if the leftist candidate loses, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador's accusations of voter fraud could cause his supporters' resentment to spill out into the streets.
DR. OCTAVIO PESCADOR, UCLA PROFESSOR: If that were the case, there are already four locations in Mexico with strong, violent problems. Two of them in the border, Texas and California, and that should be something for the U.S. to worry.
LAWRENCE: Lopez Obrador claims well over two million votes are missing. Also, Mexican citizens living in the United States crossed the border by the busload. Hundreds said they were turned away without voting because polling stations did not have enough ballots.
ALBERTO AVILES, VOTER: They're saying now that there's no interest in -- in the Mexicans living in the United States to vote, but there is interest.
LAWRENCE: Dr. Octavio Pescador says, the U.S. government also had an unspoken interest.
DR. OCTAVIO PESCADOR, PROFESSOR, UCLA: No doubt that President Bush will have a closer relationship with Felipe Calderon.
LAWRENCE: He earned a master's degree at Harvard, sharing an Ivy League connection with Bush, the Yale graduate. Having worked in President Vicente Fox's cabinet, Calderon is familiar with negotiations to curb illegal immigration.
PESCADOR: He would say -- and this is hypothetical -- yes, we will collaborate, but let's engage in a fairer guest-worker program.
LAWRENCE: But there's a limit to what any president can do. Mexico's constitution prevents officials from restricting immigration.
(on camera): Authorities here in Mexico have until Sunday to complete the official count, but if one candidate challenges the result, a federal court would have to step in and could take up to two months to declare a winner -- John.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Chris Lawrence for us in Tijuana -- Chris, thank you.
And there's late word from Mexico that possibly could influence this current political upheaval. In an interview with the Associated Press, the ruling party candidate, Felipe Calderon, says he would be willing to include his leftist challenger in his cabinet, but he says he doesn't think Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador would accept that offer.
Up next: Hillary Clinton speaks out in the battle between Joe Lieberman and the Democratic Party -- what she's saying and why when we return.
Plus, much more on the political fight over illegal immigration -- James Carville and Torie Clarke face off in today's "Strategy Session."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: On our "Political Radar" this Wednesday: Senator Joe Lieberman's camp is refusing to criticize colleague Hillary Clinton, even though she is prepared to take a stand against him.
Yesterday, Senator Clinton said she won't support Lieberman if he's defeated in next month's Democratic primary in Connecticut. Lieberman is launching a petition drive to get on the November ballot as an unaffiliated candidate if he loses the primary to challenger Ned Lamont.
Lamont and Lieberman, by the way, are set to debate tomorrow night.
Senator Clinton says she hopes Lieberman wins that primary and wins re-nomination, but, if he doesn't, she will back Lamont. Lieberman's spokeswoman tells CNN, the senator values Hillary Clinton's friendship and her support in the primary.
Liberals online are staunch supporters of Lieberman's challenger, businessman Ned Lamont. So, how are they reacting to Senator Clinton's announcement?
Let's check in with our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: John, it's not often you see kudos for Senator Clinton online from the liberal blogosphere, but that's exactly what we're getting today, both locally and nationally.
Also, nationally, we're seeing a call for the Democratic leadership to take the exact same stance. We're seeing postings on Senator Minority Leader Harry Reid's political action committee blog. We're also seeing it on the blog of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign.
Back on the local level, Connecticut bloggers are now taking a look ahead to tomorrow's debate. They are posting past Lieberman debates to anticipate what he might do tomorrow against Ned Lamont.
And, also, yesterday, in a Fourth of July parade, they built a float. Let me give you some video of that. They call it "The Kiss." It's a reenactment of Senator Lieberman and President Bush at the 2005 State of the Union address. They embraced. And the liberal bloggers often use this embrace as a symbol online of what they consider Senator Lieberman's disloyalty to the Democratic Party. There you can see the float they built, sponsored by the Connecticut bloggers -- John.
KING: What would we do without the Internet?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Jacki, thank you very much.
Coming up: much more on the Democratic Party's dilemma over Joe Lieberman. I will ask James Carville and Torie Clarke next.
Plus, I also ask James and Torie just how the White House should respond to North Korea -- today's "Strategy Session" just moments away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: In our "Strategy Session": the Bush administration's response to North Korea's missile defiance. Will the us-vs.-them approach work?
Our political analysts are here, Democratic strategist James Carville, former Pentagon spokeswoman Torie Clarke.
We call you a former Pentagon spokeswoman. I assume we can call you a Republican, too, can't we?
(LAUGHTER)
TORIE CLARKE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Whatever you want.
KING: I want to start with, what do we do now? The three -- six-party talks have been under way almost three years now. Yet, the administration today is saying, that is what they will do, no one-on- one talks with North Korea, no unilateral response, if you will.
I want you to listen to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice a bit earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The wisdom of the six- party framework is that it is now not a matter of the United States and North Korea. It is really a matter of the region saying to North Korea that it has to change its behavior.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Makes sense, Torie, on paper. These are North Korea's neighbors. Get China, get South Korea, get Japan, get all them involved.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But it's been almost three years...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: ... and there's been zero progress. And now North Korea launches this fireworks display of missiles, if you will. Why not shake it up?
CLARKE: But shaking it up is not the way you approach these kinds of serious matters. And they have to make absolutely sure this is not North Korea vs. the United States. This is North Korea vs. the world.
And I think the thing to pay attention to is, all day long, as we have all been watching the news and reading the reports, it's been a multinational response of great concern to what North Korea is doing. And the United States is trying to play a very important, effective role to make sure it is a multinational response, not a unilateral response.
KING: Even if you think you're doing the right thing, after three years, it hasn't gotten you any results. What do you do then?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, look, nothing's working. I mean, Iraq's not working. Somalia's not working. The -- you know, Palestine is not working. Afghanistan is not working. Latin America is not working.
I mean, it's all over the world. And the problem is, of course, North Korea sees, Iraq doesn't have a nuclear weapon; it gets invaded. Iran builds one; it gets a payoff.
I mean, so, they see a foreign policy of weakness in the United States. They see the fact that we're bogged down on it. They're trying to capitalize on it. You know, these missiles went in the ocean, too. I mean, it shouldn't -- it wasn't like they were hugely successful.
But they're getting -- they're trying to get our attention. And they got our attention. And, you know, Colin Powell tried to push them for a different policy early on. This didn't work. That would have had a chance to work, maybe.
KING: Let me ask you this, Torie. You were in Secretary Rumsfeld's inner circle. I hate to use a sports analogy, but the United States has scouting reports, if you will, on other world leaders. In a crisis situation, we think President X will act this way; Prime Minister Y will act this way.
What does the scouting report, the intelligence dossier, say about Kim Jong-il?
CLARKE: That you can't predict him. He's nuts.
That's Torie Clark's personal opinion.
(LAUGHTER)
CLARKE: He's nuts, and you can't predict him.
You know, you cannot think that they did this by chance yesterday on the Fourth of July. They're just weirdly provocative in strange, strange ways. But, again, that's one of the reasons you want reports and information coming in from a variety of sources around the world, including his neighbors.
So, it's another reason to support a multinational approach. However frustrating it may be, it still is the best way to go.
KING: I know you prefer politics to foreign policy.
CARVILLE: I do.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: It's not my game.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But if any president of the United States asked you right now, James, there's pressure on me to send a high-level envoy over, to at least give this guy one meeting to try feel them out, would you do it?
CARVILLE: Well, I don't -- again, I don't know all of the diplomatic ramifications of it.
Obviously, the question would be that other interested parties, as Torie points out, China, Japan, South Korea. I mean, remember that the North Korea border is as close to Seoul as we are to Dulles Airport here in Washington. So, they probably have more skin in this game than anything.
Even if the -- you know, a 42-second rocket flight could get you to South Korea.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: So, I -- and our relations with them are, as with most countries, at an all-time low.
But maybe, you know, you would -- certainly, there are a lot of people that have a lot at stake in this besides the United States. And I'm not a diplomat, but I would suspect you would want to get their opinion on this.
KING: More skin in the game is what you get when you let the politics guys get involved in foreign policy.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Let's move on to an issue here at home that's a big one in the election. And that is immigration.
You have this very interesting act in the Republican Party, if you will, the House Republicans having hearings on their plan, Senate Republicans having a hearing on their plan, no compromise in sight.
I want you to listen today to two key players in this debate, Republican Arlen Specter at his hearing in Pennsylvania, Dana Rohrabacher, conservative congressman, at the other hearing in California. Let's listen to their very divergent views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: It is the view of the Senate that you cannot sensibly create an underclass of fugitives who pose problems for national security, who will also pose problems for law enforcement and crime control. We are dead-set against amnesty. Amnesty is forgiving a prior wrong. That is not what the Senate bill does.
ROHRABACHER: This administration, as well as our Democrats on the other side of the aisle, bear responsibility on this, as we do. Let's get going. Let's do our job, so that these people down at the border can do their job, and stop this invasion of the United States, which is hurting the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How do you get to the middle on this one, Torie?
CLARKE: With great difficulty.
Look, and we have said -- I have said this before on this program. Every member of Congress is going to do and take a position that he thinks works in his district or his state. And there are many, many different positions.
The president's challenge is, he has to do what he thinks is right for the entire country, not for one part of the country. So, he has to try to get the compromise going. He's going to tick off people on the left, tick off people on the right. At the end of the day, it's probably a pretty reasonable compromise. It doesn't mean it's going to easy. It doesn't mean he will be well-liked because of it.
KING: You think they can get a compromise before the election, given the resolve of the House Republicans right now?
CARVILLE: Look, a month ago, the president got time on national TV to say, this was an urgent crisis.
What are they doing, Senator Specter, Congressman Rohrabacher? They are holding hearings. Does anybody think that holding...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I mean, it's almost like you sit here, and you want to bust out laughing that, a month ago, it was the most urgent problem. Now they're holding hearings.
Of course it's difficult, and, of course, that they're going to have a hard time forging this. Now they're talking about, well, maybe they will send 12 million people back to their home countries and then let them wait on process and they will come back in. Yes, good luck with that.
KING: Well, let me ask you, as a Republican, at what point does the president of the United States, who you say is trying to do the right thing for the country -- let's put aside the details of his plan -- accept that for this conversation.
CLARKE: Right.
KING: He's trying to do something that's important to him from his days as governor of Texas.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: There's no question about that. He's also the leader of the Republican Party.
This is dividing his party. We're four months from an election. At what point does he say, OK, forget about it; let's get through the election first, because I have to protect my party; let's not have a civil war right up to the election?
CLARKE: I don't think you make that decision for a while. They may well have to do that, but I don't think you make that decision for several weeks, at least.
And I got to disagree with you, James. At least they're having hearings. At least that's something serious and sober about it.
CARVILLE: How do you have hearings? This problem is there.
CLARKE: At least they're having hearings about something that is important...
CARVILLE: Torie...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Wait a minute. Let's move on to the civil war in his party.
I'm sure you will be happy to do that. (LAUGHTER)
KING: Senator Lieberman, as you know, is a Democratic senator.
CARVILLE: Right.
KING: He was your vice presidential nominee...
CARVILLE: Right.
KING: ... just six years ago.
Yet, he says, if I lose my primary, I need plan B. He called it an insurance policy here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
CARVILLE: Right.
KING: Hillary Clinton says this: "I have known Joe Lieberman for more than 30 years. I have been pleased to support him in his campaign for reelection, and hope he is chosen as our party's nominee. But I want to be clear. I will support the nominee chosen by Connecticut Democrats in this primary."
Let me start with this. She says she's running for reelection in New York; that's the only thing she's worried about this year.
CARVILLE: Right.
KING: Well, why is she getting involved in this?
CARVILLE: Well...
KING: This sounds to me like somebody who's running for president who wants the liberal base of the party to know: I'm with you.
CARVILLE: First -- first of all, if he said, I'm not going to have an opinion on this, then you would say, James, why can't Senator Clinton just definitively sit here and give us an opinion?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: So, it doesn't matter what she says. Somebody's going to ask you about this.
I hardly think that it is huge news that a senator from New York says: I will support the Democratic nominee in Connecticut, or Kansas, or anywhere else in the country. It's hardly startling news to me.
But the choice is, is, she's kind of a -- she's cursed if she does or she doesn't. So, they -- and I think what she said was a -- what any senator says: I will support the nominee of my party.
CLARKE: I think James is right. I think she's cursed, whatever she does. But I will tell you, when I'm beyond the beltway, I often ask people, I say, OK, name five statesmen. Of the existing Congress, name five statesmen. People have a hard time coming up with five. Republicans and Democrats name Joe Lieberman. And it will be a real loss if we lose him.
CARVILLE: Right. Right.
Well, you know...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You know, the Connecticut Democrats -- and he may win -- Senator Clinton is supporting him in the Democratic primary. He may win.
But we have this funny notion that we think voters, not courts, ought to decide elections. And there's a funny notion in the Democratic Party that Democrats in that state pick their nominee, and we support them. And I actually kind of support that. I think that's a good idea. I'm not...
KING: So, you think he's -- you think he's wrong -- yes or no, you think he's wrong to do this, hurts the...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: No. I mean, I think he -- I think it's not unusual that the Democratic senator from New York would say: I will support the choice of Connecticut.
KING: No, I mean Joe Lieberman. Is Joe Lieberman being a bad Democratic, saying: Well, I'm not going to be...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Look, he wants to get reelected.
KING: I'm a good Democrat, unless somebody dares to challenge me?
CARVILLE: He says -- I'm not -- hey, I don't have -- as I said a little earlier, I don't have any skin in the Connecticut Senate race.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I know Senator Lieberman. And he's a nice guy.
But he -- you want to come back to the Senate -- and, by the way, he says, if he runs as an independent, he will be a Democrat, be a proud Democrat.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: We will get there. We need to call a timeout and leave it right there. (CROSSTALK)
KING: But we will continue this another day.
James Carville and Torie Clark...
CLARKE: Thanks.
KING: ... part of the best political team on television -- CNN, America's campaign headquarters.
And still ahead: much more on the fallout from the North Korean missile test and what can and should happen next. I will talk with the undersecretary of state, Nicholas Burns, in our next hour.
And we will have a live report from the Middle East on a major new escalation in tensions between Israel and the Palestinians.
Stay right here. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: By launching multiple missiles, North Korea offered a stark reminder of the kind of threats that most worry the Bush administration and the world.
But there's a lot of history to this modern-day missile crisis.
Here's our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield -- Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Well, John, for a nation that may well by the most politically isolated on Earth, North Korea has a way of dramatically reminding the world of its existence.
Yesterday's missile launch is the newest chapter in this half- century-old saga. But, through it all, there's one stark reality at the center of the story. And that is North Korea's military might.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD (voice-over): For most Americans on that June day in 1950, it came as a bolt from the blue. Communist North Korea launched a full-scale invasion of South Korea.
U.N. forces, overwhelmingly American, were sent to repel the invasion. With the North backed by China and the Soviet Union, the conflict was the first serious outbreak of hostilities since the end of World War II, which had ended just five years earlier.
Three years and two million lives later, including more than 36,000 American lives, an armistice was signed, which remains enforced to this day. Technically, the war never ended.
NARRATOR: The cease-fire is good news to the men at the front.
GREENFIELD: In the decades since, under the 46-year reign of Kim Il-Sung, and, after his death, his son Kim Jong-il, North Korea has grown steadily isolated, more regimented,, more impoverished. Reports of mass death by starvation have been around for a decade.
Relations between North and South did warm in 2000 with the historic handshake between the leaders of the two countries. And, during the Clinton administration, the U.S. met directly with the North and reached and apparent agreement on nuclear energy. The North would open itself to inspections, and the U.S. would provide the North with safe nuclear energy.
The Bush administration rejected the idea of such direct talks. It preferred multilateral negotiations, along with Japan, China, South Korea, and Russia. In January 2002, President Bush included North Korea, along with Iran and Iraq as:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: ... an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GREENFIELD: For its part, North Korea openly acknowledged that it had misled the world about its nuclear ambitions. It's now a widely-held belief that the North possesses a handful of nuclear weapons.
But the key to what bedevils U.S. policy lies elsewhere, in the North's massive conventional military might. It has 1.2 million under arms and some 13,000 pieces of artillery, amassed mostly along the border with the South.
In the event of an armed conflict, it could send 300,000 to 500,000 shells per hour into and around the capital of Seoul, jeopardizing the lives of countless South Koreans and many of the 30,000 American troops still in the region.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GREENFIELD: So, if the emphasis out of Washington is on diplomacy, rather than preventative force, it is not hard to understand why. Unlike Iraq, but like Iran, North Korea is in a position to wreak immense damage on its neighbors. And that, rather obviously, imposes severe limits on what the United States can or will do -- John.
KING: Severe limits, indeed -- interesting context.
Thank you very much, Jeff Greenfield, in New York.
And coming up: the United Nations vs. North Korea. What should the U.N.'s role be in responding to this dangerous and provocative act?
Jack Cafferty will be back in a moment with your e-mails.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Jack's got a great question today. And he's back now with "The Cafferty File."
Hi, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Did you see that shot they used to come to you? It looks like we kept the camera in the closet.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: No comment.
CAFFERTY: The United Nations Security Council met today to discuss a draft resolution demanding that countries cut off any funds or materials that could be used for North Korea's missile program.
The question we asked is: What should the U.N.'s role be when it comes to dealing with North Korea on this latest deal?
Greg in Vista, California: "The lead role. But unless we have unconditional support from China and Russia to put unrelenting pressure on Kim Jong-il to come to a diplomatic solution, it's a moot point."
Chad in Glendale, California: "Isn't this exactly what the U.N. was designed to do? When are they going to start doing their jobs"
Hey, they talked about a draft resolution today.
Jeff in Northridge, California: "The U.N. needs to be in the driver's seat on this one. I don't mind if Bush wants to ride shotgun, but I think we have seen what happens when he's the one who won't stop for directions. The one thing we need to keep in mind is that Iraq cannot attack Los Angeles, San Francisco, or Seattle with the push of a button. The stakes are much higher with North Korea."
Sean in Orlando, Florida: "Jack, I don't know what the U.N. should do, but I have an idea about what they will do. They will look the other way until it's too late to make the difference."
Jeannette in Aberdeen, Washington: "Jack, since this administration hasn't made many points with the U.N. in recent history, maybe, for once, they should keep their mouths shut and let the other nations make the decisions."
And Brian in San Diego writes: "The U.N. could pass out those cute little sky blue helmets."
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: John.
KING: Cute little sky blue helmets, what do you think? Will that work?
CAFFERTY: Well, you know, those hats those U.N. people wear when they go and run around in somebody else's neighborhoods.
KING: I know what the hats are, Jack. I don't think...
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: Are you not aware of the cute little sky blue helmets that the U.N. peacekeepers wear?
KING: I am aware of the blue helmets. I'm just not sure they're going to help...
CAFFERTY: Would you like one?
KING: ... in this particular situation.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: No, thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Jack Cafferty, thank you very much.
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