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The Situation Room
North Korea: Missile Diplomacy; Dead Man Talking; Iraqi Rape- Murder Probe
Aired July 06, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, using the bully pulpit against a bully. President Bush says the world should talk to North Korea about its missile launches. But North Korea vows to launch more missiles. I'll ask the Reverend Franklin Graham. He's been to North Korea.
Threats of terror from the grave.
It's 10:00 p.m. in London, where a dead man is talking. One of those suicide bombers from last year's subway attacks warns the worst is yet to come.
And sick of high gasoline prices? Try a car that really runs on gas.
It's 5:00 p.m. in Detroit. We'll have an exclusive look at a car that could save you money.
Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm John King. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Happening now, whirlwind and worldwide efforts to deal with the North Korean missile launches. President Bush says diplomacy is the best route. While he consults with world leaders, his ambassador to the United Nations is pushing the Security Council to issue a strong resolution condemning the launches.
We're covering all the angles of this story for you this afternoon.
Our senior United Nations correspondent, Richard Roth, is standing by in New York, but we begin with White House Correspondent Ed Henry -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, the president, on his 60th birthday, practicing engaging in some telephonic diplomacy, but so far not too much to celebrate from these phone calls to various world leaders, trying to get them on board for tough sanctions against North Korea. The president started burning up the phones last night, first placing calls to leaders of South Korea, Japan, quickly got them on board. But that's not surprising -- two key allies that really want to stand up to North Korea in this case.
What's much more significant is the fact that the president's calls this morning to Russia and China, President Putin, as well as President Hu, not going quite as well because they are not on board with tough sanctions. In fact, Russia only wants the U.N. to pass a non-binding statement urging North Korea to come back to the six-party talks.
Nevertheless, during a joint press availability with the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, the president was urging patience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The importance of speaking with one voice is to say to Kim Jong-il, there is a better way forward for you than isolating yourself from the rest of the world, that there is an opportunity for you to stick to some of your agreements, and that is to verifiably disarm, and that there will be a better life than being isolated. Most importantly, a better life for your people than isolation will bring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: But the truth is the president is having difficulty so far getting all the parties in the six-party talks to really speak with one voice. That's why we saw the president really trying to ratchet down expectations a bit in that press availability. And given the fact that the White House itself acknowledges that Kim Jong-il is totally unpredictable, they have no idea whether he'll start launching new missiles soon, that's why we're seeing Democrats ratchet up some pressure on the president, saying that these six-party talks have not really worked and it's time for the White House to try something new, like sitting down directly with North Korea -- John.
KING: Ed Henry for us at the White House.
Ed, thank you very much.
And would the president sit down directly with the leader of North Korea? Find out. The president speaks at length on North Korea in an exclusive interview with CNN's Larry King. You can see it right here, "LARRY KING LIVE," tonight at 9:00 Eastern.
And now to the United Nations, where there is consensus against the missile launch but not on how the world should respond.
CNN Senior U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth joins us live with the latest -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: John, the Security Council left the dirty work to junior diplomats today as the hunt goes on for the most unified response to North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice over): It appears the flight of the missiles of North Korea will be much shorter than the time it takes for the United Nations to respond. Aides to Security Council ambassadors debated the wording of a resolution which says North Korea's actions constitute a threat to international peace and security.
All 15 countries are willing to criticize Pyongyang's missile mayhem, but the U.S., Japan and others want to punish North Korea with sanctions. Russia and China favor a simple policy statement, not an enforceable resolution packed with the threat of sanctions.
ROBERT TEMPLER, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: China, Russia, and South Korea, the three countries that actually border North Korea, are very reluctant to take any measures that they see as particularly harsh. And that would mean sanctions.
ROTH: The U.S. said it's important to send a strong signal to North Korea.
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I think there are countries that have leverage over North Korea. And I think those countries bear the responsibility for trying to use that to bring the North Koreans back into compliance with their own stated policies.
ROTH: The most contentious part of the resolution suggested by Japan would place sanctions barring military-related goods from entering North Korea.
EMYR JONES PARRY, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: What we said, by movement of items into North Korea for the benefit of that missile system's development. I think we have to see how much support there is for strong action on that.
ROTH: The toughest part of the resolution may have to be dropped in order to get unanimous action aimed at Kim Jong-il.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: And late today, a Chinese diplomat told us he didn't see any breakthrough in today's meetings, no vote at this time expected tomorrow -- John.
KING: Richard Roth for us at the United Nations.
Richard, thank you very much.
And new information just in to CNN. Since those Tuesday missile launches by North Korea, of course U.S. intelligence officials trying to analyze just what happened, especially with the failed launch of that long-range Taepodong-2 missile.
Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, has some new information -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, new information just in from a senior U.S. official with direct access to U.S. intelligence who tells CNN that that Taepodong-2 missile malfunctioned virtually from the start. Within seconds of liftoff, the missile malfunctioned, spun out of control, was never apparently under operational control. And initial malfunction so soon that the U.S. didn't even -- wasn't even able to tell which direction the missile was going.
Also, the same intelligence suggests that there is no other Taepodong missile ready to go, suggesting that while North Korea may be boasting of another missile test, it doesn't look like they have another one of these long-range Taepodongs that they could launch anytime soon -- John.
KING: And Jamie, obviously the Pentagon happy that the missile failed, but they would have learned more had they learned a bit more about the trajectory, would they not?
MCINTYRE: Well, clearly, North Korea thought that they had an improved version of this missile, that it might have had a longer range. They didn't find out, and neither did the Pentagon if that was true.
KING: Jamie McIntyre for us on the latest as U.S. intelligence officials continue to analyze this.
Jamie, thank you very much.
And right now the United States is moving the aircraft carrier Enterprise from the Persian Gulf to the Pacific Ocean. The move was scheduled, but not for several weeks. Pentagon officials say the timing with North Korea's missile launches is purely coincidental.
In London, a dead man is talking. He's responsible for deadly terror strikes in London, but now he vows the worst is yet to come.
Our senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance, has more from London.
Hi, Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, thanks very much.
And as Britain prepares to mark the first anniversary of the London bombings in which 52 people were killed, a video showing one of the suicide bombers has been broadcast on Al-Jazeera television.
Shehzad Tanweer was a 22-year-old British-Muslim. He's shown in the video wearing a red and white kafir (ph) headdress, making his final statement in the months apparently before he and three others set off to target commuters on London's transport system.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE (voice over): A chilling message from beyond the grave. The last statement of Shehzad Tanweer, one of the London bombers, broadcast on the eve of the anniversary of the attacks. His final recorded words were threats.
SHEHZAD TANWEER, LONDON SUICIDE BOMBER (through translator): What you have witnessed now is only the beginning of a series of attacks that will continue and become stronger until you pull your forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq and until you stop support of America and Israel.
CHANCE: Tanweer, a 22-year-old British-Muslim, detonated his explosives in an underground train, killing seven other people and injuring more than a hundred. British police say the timing of his statements released would cause maximum hurt and distress for the families of the bereaved.
Like two of the other bombers, Tanweer came from Leeds, in the north of England. A friend of the family said the video was a further blow to the community there.
IRSHAD HUSSAIN, FRIEND OF TANWEER FAMILY: Everybody's in shock. All the community is in shock, because nobody knows exactly what went on. Nobody has any information whatsoever.
CHANCE: One strong possibility, direct help from al Qaeda. It's known Tanweer, along with another London bomber, Mohammad Sidique Khan, visited Pakistan in the year before the bombings. An official British report into the attack concluded it was likely they met al Qaeda figures and possibly received training. British police also believe it's in Pakistan both men made their recordings.
TANWEER (through translator): We are at war and I am a soldier.
CHANCE: Both tapes also featured al Qaeda's number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, here describing Tanweer as physically fit for the job. Al-Zawahiri never appears with the bombers, but this al Qaeda claiming the London attacks as its own.
ABDEL BARI ATWAN, EDITOR, "AL QUDS": That's why Ayman al- Zawahiri insisted on appearing in both tapes, actually, to say that, "They are my boys,. I am the one who is responsible for that. I recruited that."
CHANCE: And as Britain prepares to mark a year since the attacks, it's a powerful reminder it could happen again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: Indeed, in the year since the bombings, British police say they've been made acutely aware of the risk the British public still stands in as more intelligence becomes available to them -- John.
KING: And Matthew, any special security precautions because of the anniversary?
CHANCE: There will be increased security on the streets of London on the 7th of January, tomorrow here, local time. Also, increased patrols inside the subway stations, the underground railway stations, around buses as well. But very much the message from the police is people must try and get on and live their lives as normal.
KING: Matthew Chance for us live in London.
Matthew, thank you very much.
And up ahead, he's one of the few Americans who's been inside North Korea. The Reverend Franklin Graham will join us in THE SITUATION ROOM to share his observations.
Also, a former U.S. soldier accused of rape and murder in Iraq appears in a U.S. courtroom. We'll have the latest on key new developments in that case.
Plus, a delicate docking high in the sky. Shuttle Discovery and the International Space Station coming together. We'll show you the latest remarkable images from space.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There are new developments in the killings of Iraqi civilians, including the rape-murder of an Iraqi woman allegedly at the hands of an American soldier.
Let's go back to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, for the details -- Jamie.
MCINTYRE: Well, John, a U.S. Army private -- former private, rather, is appearing in federal court at this hour for an arraignment. It appears that Steven Green will now face charges in the civil court system instead of the military justice system.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): A white van departs the Mecklenburg County Jail in North Carolina as a former Army private is transferred to Louisville, Kentucky, to face charges in federal court. Charges that have sent shock waves across Iraq and strained relations between the U.S. military and the Iraqi people.
Twenty-one-year-old Steven Green is accused of the premeditated murder in March of an Iraqi family, including a small child, followed by the brutal rape and murder of their eldest daughter, whose age is variously reported as between 15 and 25. What Green and up to four other American soldiers are alleged to have done in this farmhouse in Mahmoudiya, identified and videotaped by The Associated Press, is so offensive to Islamic culture, where rape and sexual assault can be a source of deep shame, that the U.S. ambassador to Iraq and the top U.S. commander issued a rare joint statement.
"This is painful, confusing and disturbing, not only to the family who lost a loved one, but to the Iraqi people as a whole." Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and General George Casey wrote, "The alleged events of that day are absolutely inexcusable and unacceptable behavior. We will fully pursue all the facts in a vigorous and open process."
While the killings occurred March 11th or 12th, the allegations didn't surface until June 23rd, when two soldiers came forward during stress counseling. The investigation started the next day, June 24th, and Green was arrested in the United States June 30th, a week later.
Green had received an honorable discharge from the Army in April, according to court documents, because of a personality disorder, something that according to Army regulation is authorized only if the disorder is so severe that the soldier's ability to function effectively in the military environment is significantly impaired. A few months before his discharge, Green was featured on the Army's official Web site. In a picture, he's seen about to blast a lock off a gate of what is described as an abandoned Iraqi home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The allegations in this case are so disturbing that Iraq's new prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, has asked the U.S. military to reopen the issue of whether U.S. troops should be immune to Iraqi justice -- John.
KING: Jamie McIntyre for us at the Pentagon.
We want to talk more about this probe. You just heard Jamie call it disturbing, the killings of Iraqi civilians allegedly at the hands of an American soldier.
Joining me here in THE SITUATION ROOM, CNN contributor Bill Bennett. He's the host of "Morning in America," and he's with the Claremont Institute.
The United States is in Iraq. Many Iraqis view the United States as the occupier. Somehow, to change that image, the United States needs some moral high ground. I suspect investigations like this are damaging to that effort.
I want your thoughts, but first I want to read you this statement. This is a joint statement. Pretty Remarkable. Put out by General George Casey and our ambassador in Iraq, Zalmay Khalizad.
They said this today: "The alleged events of that day are absolutely inexcusable and unacceptable behavior. We will fully pursue all the facts in a vigorous and open process as we investigate this situation."
No surprise they are promising an investigation. But the fact that they have to go public like this in a joint statement, do you suspect that they suspect from a political dynamic and an image dynamic we're in deep trouble in Iraq?
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I know they expect that they have to go public because that's what we do. That's how we act. That's how we behave.
The facts are certainly not the moral high ground, but I would say the investigation is the moral high ground. This is what we do. You know?
When we do something terrible, we admit it and we try to set it right. And, in fact, we're often public about it. But we've had incidents like this. It's not the first; it won't be the last. It is, however, a tiny sliver, as you were saying, of what our soldiers do. And for most Iraqis, the Americans still represent their best hope, their only hope, really, for freedom.
But I think this high ground that's taken in this statement, that's an excellent statement. It shows that we will pursue it.
Very few countries would do that. Certainly our enemy doesn't behave in this way. It's deeply regrettable, a deeply troubled young man, but this is what we do, this is how we act.
KING: I want to move on. I'm very interested in your thoughts and also the thoughts you hear, the feedback you hear from listeners to your radio show to the president's handling of North Korea.
BENNETT: Yes.
KING: The president is saying six-party talks, six-party talks, stay with the multilateral approach.
I want you to listen before you comment to something the president said earlier today at a news conference.
BENNETT: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Diplomacy takes a while. Particularly when you're dealing with a variety of partners. And so we're spending time diplomatically making sure that voice is unified.
I was pleased from the responses I got from the leaders. They, like me, were -- are concerned. You know, concerned about a person who doesn't seem to really care and -- about what others say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Kim Jong-il doesn't really care.
BENNETT: Well, yes.
KING: But do your listeners -- is this what they want from the president? Do they want unilateral American action here? Do they understand what he's doing?
BENNETT: They -- to the degree they speak about it -- and they don't speak about it much, frankly -- they would have liked preemptive action. And I think this actually does underscore the value of preemption.
Not necessarily -- I don't mean just taking the missile off the launching pad, but not letting it get there in the first place. Because when you get to this point, you have a real problem. They've got weapons, and now you got the U.N. The president, very interesting, to me, John, saying diplomatically and we've got to work with our people. You know, if you were choosing up sides in a sandlot baseball game, some of these guys that you've got to work with aren't the guys you'd choose.
KING: Well, the two holding out on it right now are Russia and China.
BENNETT: Russia and China, very difficult. But he has to work with them.
But I think one other thing this underscores, they were smart, weren't they? The White House -- it was David -- Michael Gerson, you were talking to earlier, or others who talked about the axis of evil, Iran, Iraq, North Korea. That's what we're talking about. But I think the answer, most of my audience is saying, is let's get missile defense, missile defense, missile defense.
KING: Has the political problem of Iraq preempted preemption? Has it taken that option away from the president and the world?
BENNETT: I don't think so. I mean, I think what you've got is just a world that everybody realizes is extremely dangerous. And I think most of the country would prefer our president to be strong and firm and bold, even if he makes some mistakes in the process, rather than being passive.
We learned the dangers and risks of passivity on 9/11.
KING: Bill Bennett, thanks very much for your thoughts.
BENNETT: Thanks, John.
KING: Thank you for joining us.
And coming up, inside one of the world's most secretive societies. The Reverend Franklin Graham joins us to talk about his mission to North Korea and the desperate plight of that country's 23 million people.
Plus, Detroit's possible solution to the high price of gas. We'll give you an exclusive look at what could be the vehicle of the future.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm John King.
More now on our top story, the North Korean missile crisis. It's focusing new attention on the plight of the country's 23 million people. President Bush says he cares deeply about them and is heartbroken to know children are starving to death.
CNN's Zain Verjee is here with more on what we know about conditions inside this very isolated country -- Zain. ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: John, we actually know very little about ordinary life in the closed communist country. Few have visited, some have managed to escape, and through them we can piece together a snapshot into the elusive regime.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice over): This is a satellite picture of North Korea and South Korea. You can see the lights from buildings and streets glowing in South Korea at night. To the north, nothing but pitch black.
Former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright visited Pyongyang and met Kim Jong-il. In her book, "Madame Secretary," she describes the city.
"In contrast to other Asian cities there were practically no neon lights or even advertising. I could see no evidence of a restaurant, a grocery store, department store or bank."
North Korea is a desperately poor country, where many children are underfed, sick and alone. There is little development. Food is scarce and carefully rationed. Surviving is a struggle for most North Koreans, laboring in muddied fields.
Aid agencies estimate that two million people starved to death during the famine in the 1990s. Many North Koreans have escaped to the south and to China.
Former CNN correspondent Mike Chinoy says North Korea is one of the most disciplined societies on Earth.
MIKE CHINOY, FMR. CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's like a religious cult, built around the personality cult for Kim Jong-Il, and Kim Il-Sung before him. Daily life is organized around a kind of devotion and worship to the Kim cult and the ideology.
VERJEE: Former CBS anchor Dan Rather, on "ANDERSON COOPER 360," talked about the Kim cult he saw firsthand.
DAN RATHER, FMR. CBS ANCHOR: If you say good morning to someone, they're very polite and they'll smile and say, yes, our maximum leader told us this morning on the radio that it was going to be a beautiful day, and you know what, sir? It is a beautiful day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Dan Rather went on to say that the first few times you hear that, you're actually quite amused by it. But hearing it over and over again, he says, there is an unsettling quality about it -- John.
KING: Unsettling, an understatement. Zain Verjee, thank you very much.
And the Reverend Franklin Graham is among few Americans to ever visit North Korea. The evangelist and son of Billy Graham has been allowed in on humanitarian missions with his international relief group Samaritan's Purse . Franklin Graham joins us now live from Baltimore.
Reverend Graham, you just heard Zain Verjee's report. Take us inside North Korea. We see the pictures of Kim Jong-Il and military parades. You've seen the starving and the devastation. Give us an inside look.
REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, PRES., SAMARITAN'S PURSE: Well, John, it's what everybody has been saying. It's a very poor country, no question. And there is a lot of need. And Samaritan's Purse has been working there for a number of years, and so has the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.
My father went in '92. He went in '94 and met with Kim Il-Sung. I was there in 2000. We actually have a delegation going again there next month. And we have medical equipment and supplies.
The need is horrendous. And I'm not an advocate for sanctions. I don't think sanctions work. I really believe that we need it talk to the North Koreans. There is something about seeing someone eyeball to eyeball.
And I remember when Nixon went to China to meet with Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai, when he went in '72, here was a country that was isolated, here was a dictator who had killed millions of people, but yet the president went and took a chance for peace.
And, of course, that began to open the door for relations with China. And I just believe when leaders get together and you can meet eyeball to eyeball, they see each other in a different light. And I hope that maybe we can do that as a country, meet with the North Koreans.
KING: President Bush has shown no willingness to do that, sir, as you are well aware. Help us understand, you're a pilot. I understand you actually flew a plane into North Korea?
GRAHAM: That's correct. At Samaritan's Purse, we have a number of planes that we use all over the world. And I'm one of the few I think private pilots that was given permission to go into North Korea.
And that was quite an experience, because they made it very clear if I deviated from the flight plan, there could be a possibility of being shot down. And I assured them that I didn't like that idea of being shot down and I would stay with the flight plan.
KING: I'm guessing you did. What can be done in the short-term? You hear Japan saying it will take some sanctions. You know about the debate at the United Nations. You just said you think President Bush should meet with Kim Jong-Il. That's not going to happen in the short term. What happens if there is a tightening on the leader, if you will, diplomatic tightening, some sanctions, what happens to the people? GRAHAM: Well, first of all, the leadership is going to continue their lifestyle. It is the people that are going to suffer. And you have to remember the Koreans do not have any love for the Japanese. The Japanese invaded Korea the early part of the last century, devastated the Korean peninsula.
The North Koreans haven't forgotten that, and so there is not a lot of love between them and the Japanese. But yet we fought them during the Korean War. And when I was in Korea, I did not sense, in North Korea, a hatred toward America. They wanted our respect, they wanted to be treated as equals.
And unfortunately, I find, John, many times our diplomats around the world have a tendency to talk down to people of smaller countries. And I just believe if we show them a little bit of respect and listen to what they have to say, it doesn't mean that we agree with them.
We may agree with nothing they say, but at least let's look them in the eye. And I believe Condi, Dr. Rice, needs to be over there before the end of this year. I think it would be a good thing. And hopefully the president, before he leaves office, will have a chance to meet Kim Jong-Il.
KING: You are a minister and missionary. When you go to North Korea and you are told not to deviate from your flight plan or you may be shot down, are you allowed in your conversations with North Koreans to mention God? Kim Jong-Il I assume does not believe in God.
GRAHAM: Absolutely. I met with the foreign minister, I met with the minister of health. And I always made it very clear, I am a minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and I believe that God has sent me to your country, we're to help and we're here to help in the name of Jesus Christ.
And before I would eat, I would ask would it be all right if I prayed for the food. And the foreign minister, the minister of health, these men that had banquets for me, said, oh, by all means, please, and they would bow their heads when I would pray. So there is absolutely respect. They may not agree but there is respect.
KING: I want to ask you about a couple of other quick subjects before we close. One of them is, the United States image in the Muslim world is in pretty tough shape. Charges now against some American troops. And there are those, sir, who have criticized something you said in the past.
And I want to read a quote that you were talking about: "The god of Islam is not the same god. It is not the son of god of the Judeo- Christian faith. It is a different god and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."
That was a statement you made long ago, just after the events of September 11th, 2001. I wonder if you regret that statement.
GRAHAM: Well, first of all, it's not the same god that we worship. The god of the Bible has a son and his name is Jesus Christ. And Jesus said: "I'm the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes to the father but by me."
Islam, of course, does not recognize Jesus as the son of God. To them that is blasphemous. They would agree with me on this. And so it is not the same god that we worship. I worship a god who gave his life, who sent his son to die for my sins so that I could be with him in heaven. And that's the god that I worship.
KING: We are almost out of time, sir. But you're in Baltimore for a revival with your 86-year-old father. Many calling this the last crusade. How is he doing and how long will he be doing this?
GRAHAM: Well, you know, he -- last year was his last crusade in New York. But he didn't say that he would quit preaching. So he's coming to my meeting this week here at Oriole Park at Camden Yards, and he's going to preach on Sunday. And he's got Bev Shea, who is 97 years old, who is going to sing with him. We have got a lot of guests, a lot of fun, and I hope everyone can come.
KING: Reverend Franklin Graham, joining us from Baltimore. Thank you, sir, for your insights on North Korea.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
KING: And we certainly wish your dad well. Take care.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
KING: And still to come, a car whose maker says you could actually drink the exhaust liquid. We'll have an exclusive look at the car General Motors says will drive you very far on zero, zero gasoline.
And after you meet the car, meet the man behind it, General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner, in an interview you'll see "Only on CNN." I'll ask him if GM is helping the American economy or is it, as some have said, dangerous.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: A bit more now of a CNN exclusive. President Bush's conversation earlier today with our own Larry King. Listen in now as President Bush tells Larry how he first learned about North Korea's missile launches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd been in Ft. Bragg speaking to our troops. And you know, the system worked well. Don Rumsfeld called me and said, look, he's fired rockets. Some of them Scuds went in the Sea of Japan. It looks like he fired his long- range rocket that tumbled out of the sky. But we responded very quickly. We had a plan in place to respond if he were to fire these things.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Were you prepared to shoot it down? BUSH: If it headed to the United States, we've got a missile defense system that will defend our country.
LARRY KING: Do you then fear it more now?
BUSH: I think that's what he wants. I think he does want people to fear him. My response to him and the response of our partners is to be that it's very important for you, the leader of North Korea, to make rational decisions, because the United States is not alone in making these demands. The demand of course is that to give up his weapons programs on a verifiable fashion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And you will want to tune in to see that full interview, an exclusive hour, Larry King with the first lady and the president tonight, it's on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
And in a new development, a long-time Bush administration adversary in South America now says he may travel to North Korea, raising a new set of troubling questions. CNN's Brian Todd is here with that.
Hello, Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.
This announcement didn't get much attention when it was made several days ago, but North Korea's missile tests changed the equation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): He agitates the United States by leveraging his oil reserves and making statements like this:
HUGO CHAVEZ, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): The president of the United States, a killer, genocide, and immoral, that should be taken to prison.
TODD: He tweaks the Bush administration by launching seven test missiles into the Sea of Japan and threatening nuclear war. Could Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and North Korea's Kim Jong-Il team up against the U.S.? Chavez has announced he intends to travel to North Korea in the coming weeks. The State Department reacted even before North Korea's long-range missile test.
SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Certainly if that involved the transfer of military technologies just given North Korea's track record, certainly that would be a concern.
TODD: Venezuelan officials say they don't have that ambition. But some analysts believe North Korea's desperation for cash and willingness to sell missiles could send this alliance down a dangerous path. JEFFREY BEATTY, TOTALSECURITY.US: Hugo Chavez has money. He feels threatened by the United States. He is aggressive against the United States. And I'm concerned that the same things that led Fidel Castro to welcome Russian missiles on his soil in the early '60s would come into play and have Venezuela host missiles from North Korea.
TODD: But a former assistant secretary of state who dealt with Venezuela says that's a leap.
PETER DESHAZO, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTL. STUDIES: Chavez wants to establish himself as a leader in the Western Hemisphere and around the world, someone who is a counterweight to the United States, someone who offers a different ideology from the United States, but this would, I believe, tarnish his image in the hemisphere an not strengthen it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: There is also the debate over capability. Some analysts say none of those missiles North Korea sells right now have the range to travel the 1,500 miles from Venezuela to the United States. Others believe at least one of those missiles could have that range or could be modified to have it -- John.
KING: Still a trip very much worth watching. Brian Todd, thank you very much.
And up ahead, want to save money on gas? General Motors thinks it knows how. A car that runs on gas instead of gasoline. We'll have an exclusive look.
And in our 7:00 p.m. hour, some gays and lesbian hope to be able to marry in New York State. Now that state's highest court answers whether they can or not.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Ever rising gas prices and steadily increasing car costs, it is enough to make you want to kiss your gas guzzler goodbye. Just today the Energy Department says the price of gas rose almost 7 cents in the past week alone to $2.93 for a gallon of regular. But in this CNN exclusive, how about a new way to save? Forget gasoline, try driving a car that really runs on gas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): At first glance, it could be yet another entry into the crowded SUV market. General Motors says this, the Sequel, is the car of the future, the evolution of the automobile.
CHRIS BORRONI-BIRD, GENERAL MOTORS: In this vehicle, the only exhaust is pure water vapor. Drinkable in fact.
KING: Until now, no one outside of GM has seen it move. Adjusted the air conditioning with the click of a mouse.
BORRONI-BIRD: There we go, look at that.
KING: Or shifted it with the push of a button from park into drive.
BORRONI-BIRD: This is the very first time anyone's driven it outside the company.
KING: The Sequel is evolutionary, GM says, because it is the first hydrogen-powered vehicle with room for a family and a range, 300 miles, similar to most gasoline-powered options on the road today.
Hydrogen is highly flammable, but GM says safety concerns have been addressed by placing reinforced tanks in the center of the chassis.
BORRONI-BIRD: They protect you from side and rear and front crashes as well as they possibly can be. In the event of a crash, the tanks might rupture and then the hydrogen -- there are hydrogen sensors in the vehicle that can sense that hydrogen. I don't think it would reach flammable concentration or anything.
KING: Also noteworthy, the brakes and steering are electrical, wired to a computer, replacing the mechanical systems that have been in cars since the beginning.
(on camera): You have two of these.
BORRONI-BIRD: We have two of these vehicles. We believe these are the first vehicles, the most advanced technology vehicles ever made.
KING (voice-over): With high gases and an escalating debate about global warming, GM's Larry Burns talks ambitiously of making gas-powered combustion engines like this museum pieces.
LARRY BURNS, GENERAL MOTORS: We think we can get the car out of the environmental debate, a car that emits just water, and then get it out of the energy debate because the hydrogen can come from so many different pathways.
KING: But not so fast.
PETER VALDES-DAPENA, FINANCIAL ANALYST: They are viable. The problem right now is the cost of a vehicle like that, first of all, would be like buying a Ferrari. It is just very, very expensive technology right now.
BRENDAN BELL, SIERRA CLUB: GM has been betting on hydrogen for a long time. And while they've been betting, they've been seeing their market share decline.
KING: GM acknowledges significant hurdles remain, chief among them, cutting the cost of the hydrogen storage system and fuel cells.
BURNS: We're targeting a cost equal to that of a gasoline engine propulsion system, a pretty aggressive target. We haven't seen anything yet, John, that says we can't get there.
KING: GM has already poured a billion dollars into the research. And CEO Rick Wagoner has set a 2010 deadline for engineers to prove they can turn the concept into a safe, affordable line of hydrogen- powered cars.
RICK WAGONER, CEO, GENERAL MOTORS: We think we could see some production of these vehicles early in the next decade.
KING: GM says it could have them on dealer lots in significant numbers in 10 years if -- and it's a big "if," the government and investors buy into hydrogen's potential.
EFRAIM LEVY, STANDARD & POOR'S: I think it is going to be somewhat gradual shift, it is still going to be a very small percentage of the overall market.
BURNS: The hydrogen has to be conveniently available, safely available and affordably available. And we can't do that by ourselves. We have to work with energy companies and governments to establish codes and standards and to make the fuel available.
KING: The exclusive access GM granted CNN was designed to showcase recent break-throughs, something the company hopes quiets at least some of the skeptics who doubt hydrogen's potential, or who doubt struggling GM's long-range financial outlook, or both.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: We want to go quickly now to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, for an update on charges against a former Army private accused of atrocities in Iraq -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we told you that that private -- former Private Steven Green was appearing in a federal court this afternoon. We can now tell you from the Associated Press that he entered a plea of not guilty. He waived a pre-trial and detention hearing and agreed that his case could be heard in federal court, in the Western District of Kentucky. An arraignment has been set for next month -- John.
KING: Jamie McIntyre, thank you for that update, Jamie.
And up next, you've seen an exclusive look at the car, now we'll have a conversation with the man behind it, GM's CEO Rick Wagoner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Oil is holding above $75 a barrel, one day after hitting record highs. We just showed you one of GM's potential new weapons against high gas prices. But will the sequel give the financially struggling company a second act?
For an interview you'll see "Only on CNN," I sat down with the CEO, Rick Wagoner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: One of the short-term debates, environmental groups and others say, raise the CAFE standards, force Detroit, force any other carmakers to make more fuel efficient vehicles. Good idea, bad idea?
WAGONER: Bad idea, it doesn't work. We've been doing it for what, 30 years now? We have consistently improved our fuel economy, and guess what, the U.S. imports more oil today than they have at any point in our history.
So our view is, yes, we should try to reduce the reliance on imported oil, but let's do it in a way that works this time. And so our view is let's offer alternative fuels in a much greater extent than we have in the past. And so GM is pleased to be a leader in offering E-85 ethanol powered vehicles.
We're going to ramp up production even more. We've got almost 2 million on road today and we can expand at a significant rate. But we do need a greater supply, for example, of ethanol. So I think by doing things like that and focusing on technologies that will give us the benefit of less reliance on imported oil, those are the kinds of things that are going to fix the problem, as opposed to antiquated approaches that we have seen for the last 30 years simply not work.
KING: Is this a permanent condition of the business right now, if you will, or is it simply because we've looked at $70 a barrel or higher prices, the fluctuations because of political instability in a place like Venezuela, in a place like Iran? If oil drops back down, will all this urgency to develop the new technologies and bring them to market fade?
WAGONER: No. We've been bringing the technologies to market, John. We're going to continue because we see the risk in our business. It is in fact possible that oil prices go back down. But as long as the consumers are concerned about the fact that they might spike back up, or we have to set up our business so it can be a successful business, whether oil prices are $50 a barrel or $100 a barrel. It's incumbent on us to make sure we have the options that really enable us to compete effectively, offer customers what they want in either one of those environments.
KING: Your company is banking on this hydrogen technology. I'm far from any expert, but if you read this research, there are a great number of skeptics out there. Why are you convinced that that is the way to go in the future in terms of bringing a mass produced car to market in the relatively short future? And back of your mind, any at all possibility -- you know, there is a movie, "Who Killed the Electric Car?", will there be a movie, "Who Killed the Hydrogen Car?"
WAGONER: Well, we have got to get it produced first. So let's not put the cart before the horse here. The hydrogen opportunity is an interesting one, primarily because you can get the power from so many different sources, which I think is an ideal aspect of any energy policy, diversification of sources.
To make hydrogen powered vehicles really popular to the average consumer, a lot of stuff's got to happen. Some of it we have to do. Further invent new technologies, get down the cost curve, prove the reliability. And as you had a chance to experience today, we are doing all of that.
But another piece of the equation to make this work has got to be, for example, the production and then distribution -- effective distribution of hydrogen. And it is clear that's a big infrastructure change. That's going to take some leadership from the government and other aspects of the economy.
And so it's going to be a -- sort of a team sport to get us to a hydrogen future. And realistically that's going to take a while. But we do see that it has great potential for the future. And that's why we're spending so much today developing that technology.
KING: Going to play devil's advocate a little bit, why should anybody listening to this -- in your talk about alternative fuels and alternative sources of energy, alternative ways to power a vehicle, why should they listen to the chairman of the company? People say, wait a minute, this is the guy who makes the Yukon and the Tahoe and the Escalade, those big giant gas-guzzling SUVs. Why should they listen to you?
WAGONER: Well, first of all, they should listen to me because we make vehicles that people want to buy. And while sometime there's a view that we can mandate what individual consumers want, the fact is purchasing decisions are made every day by millions of individuals out there based on their specific needs.
So what we do is offer small vehicles that are highly fuel efficient, and large vehicles that in their class are the most fuel efficient. So the reason someone would want to buy a Chevy Tahoe is because they have to tow, they have a large family, they have business needs.
And if they buy that product from us they know they're getting the most fuel efficient vehicle in that category, better than anybody else. So we think we very much have a seat at the table in this debate because we've shown that we can provide vehicles the customers want and at the same time be very competitive to leading in fuel efficiency.
KING: I'm going to stay in the role of devil's advocate. The company lost almost $11 billion last year. Again, why should someone listen to what is the world's largest automaker but -- while it has that big symbol up above it, an icon, if you will, of U.S. manufacturing, is likely to soon be passed by Toyota in terms of its market, a company that some say is struggling. And again, if you read through this research, some say it may have no choice but bankruptcy.
WAGONER: Well, we've addressed that issue a number of times. We have no interest in bankruptcy. What we're doing are taking the tough steps to turn the company around. And we have announced a number of those, including yesterday a cooperative program with our union under which we have early retirements or buyouts for 35,000 workers. So we're taking big moves to get our cost structure competitive. KING: Ten years from now, what percentage of cars in the United States will be fueled with gasoline?
WAGONER: Ten years from today, I think it's still going to be a majority, but I think what you'll see is a lot of that gasoline will be spread farther, if you will, by being combined with ethanol.
We probably will see some bio-diesel. We will need to use less gasoline because we'll have more hybrids and I suspect also more diesel-powered vehicles. And we'll begin to see the advent, I think, of the fuel cell era.
KING: Thank you very much.
WAGONER: Great to be with you, John, thank you.
KING: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And we'll be back again here in THE SITUATION ROOM just one hour from now. Until then, I'm John King. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now. Kitty Pilgrim is in for Lou -- Kitty.
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