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The Situation Room
New York Subways on Security Alert; Bombs Rip Through Crowded Commuter Trains in India
Aired July 11, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Kitty. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, New York City subways on security alert after terror abroad. It's 4:30 a.m. Wednesday morning in India, where bombs ripped through crowded commuter trains at rush hour. We'll have live reports on the deadly blasts there and the fear here in the United States. And I'll speak with the New York City police commissioner Ray Kelly.
Also this hour, new marching orders for the U.S. military on the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington, where the Bush administration is responding to a defeat in the U.S. Supreme Court and laying groundwork for action by Congress. Does it amount to an about-face?
And Condoleezza Rice's fans still won't take no for an answer. We'll catch up with the diehard campaign to get the secretary of state to run for the White House.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
New developments tonight in the terror attacks on commuter trains in the Indian city of Mumbai. The death toll has been revised. It is now up to at least 174 people with more than 380 injured, many of them critically.
And happening now, increased security on New York City subways, including hundreds of extra police officers and more random bag searches, all a direct response to the attacks in India. We'll take you live to India in a moment, CNN's Seth Doane is standing by from Mumbai, that's formerly known as Bombay. Also standing by, CNN's Tom Foreman here in Washington. Mary Snow is in New York but we begin our coverage this hour with CNN's Zain Verjee.
Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is condemning the attack and telling Indians to stay calm and carry on with their lives, but at the same time hospitals are urgently appealing for blood donations for the wounded, and special phone lines have been set up for relatives of the victims of this latest terror attack. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Seven explosions in 11 minutes, striking fear in the heart of India's financial capital. The attacks launched during evening rush hour when commuter trains were guaranteed to be the most crowded.
The blasts ripped apart the carriages and those inside, leaving a bloody chaotic scene with debris and bodies strewn. CNN IBN reporter Jency Jacob was on board one of those planes.
JENCY JACOB, CNN IBN CORRESPONDENT: The first compartment was totally ripped apart and people were hanging from the trains, some people were torn out from the train, and they were lying on the tracks, bleeding completely.
VERJEE: The blasts were strong enough to be heard miles away. And in the chaos that followed, cell phone networks collapsed under the sheer volume of calls, adding to the sense of panic in the city Rescue crews had a hard time reaching some of the scenes, leaving fellow passengers and bystanders to tend to the dead and the wounded.
So far, no claims of responsibility for the blasts. But Indian officials have their suspicions, Kashmiri militants known for their near-simultaneous attacks.
RONEN SEN, INDIAN AMBASSADOR OF THE U.S.: It appears to emanate from our neighborhood which as you know, is the global epicenter, I would say, of terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (on camera): This isn't the first time terrorists have targeted Mumbai. A series of 13 bombs exploded in the city in March of 1993, killing more that 250 people.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain, thanks very much for that. It's now early Wednesday morning in Mumbai, where emergency crews are still working feverishly to recover bodies of the victims. CNN's Seth Doane is joining us now live from Mumbai. Seth, how are people reacting with this crisis on the ground?
SETH DOANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, as you mentioned, the story has started really to move to the hospitals here, and next to one hospital that has admitted 72 people over the course of the evening there are still family members waiting around looking for answers, trying to get answers from hospital staff, hearing from government officials that the hospitals can manage the number of injured that they have right now, but there are a lot of people here still looking for more answers.
BLITZER: Seth, stand by, we're going to be coming back to you. Seth Doane is on the scene for us in Mumbai. Let's get a closer look now of where these bombings took place. CNN's Tom Foreman is here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Tom, show our viewers exactly what was going on.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What matters is we were talking about the western side of India. If we move in to take a look at where the bombings occurred, this is really a critical artery cutting through an area of roughly 20 million people. This is the railway line we're talking about, along here, and these are all the stations that were hit in this area, cutting through some of the real heart of what is the shipping industry there, 50 percent of the shipping into the country comes through this area, the financial district there, even through the entertainment industry, this is home to Bollywood, the famous Indian film production, which is enormous, the number of films they put out of this every year.
Frankly what has shocked me the most all day long is considering the extraordinary ridership, anywhere from 5 million to 10 million people a day on these systems, the number of fatalities and injuries relatively small considering the number of explosions.
Boravilley Station (ph) here, two explosions there, a third bomb found by police there, and then on up to the end here. And of course, what could have made this all so much worse, just up to the north there, if you take a close look, this is a bridge, and there are five major bridges along this route, all of which could have been hit and that would have of course much complicated efforts to keep people out, efforts to get rescuers in.
In so many ways this could have been much worse, but nonetheless major, major artery for millions of people. Trains absolutely packed, a lot of fear in that country now.
And no one yet has claimed responsibility for it, but it does have some similarity to what happened a year ago in London, a year earlier in Madrid. We'll continue to watch this story. We're also watching another story, we're going to more on what's happening as a result of what happened in India, but there's an emergency right now aboard the Chicago transit system. Reports of smoke shutting down a section of what's called the el train in Chicago.
CNN producer Mitch Walker is on the phone, he is joining us now live from Chicago. What do we know, Mitch?
MITCH WALKER, CNN PRODUCER: Wolf, we're just northwest of downtown Chicago near the intersection of Clinton and Fulton, where a blue line train -- that's the train that leads from downtown and heads out to O'Hare, came to a sudden halt right around 5:00. A passenger I spoke with on the train, which was quite full -- it's rush hour -- said she didn't feel a derailment or hear anything untoward, but suddenly the car began to fill with smoke and there was a lot of heat.
Where I'm standing now is near an area where people emerged from the train via an emergency exit. This is underground at that point, and there are dozens and dozens of fire trucks. Many people now have declined medical help and are being bussed to their destinations, but there still are a number of people I suspect, well over a dozen, right on this site, who are getting oxygen. All the passengers that I saw appeared to be covered in soot and smoke. Nobody has seen any sign of flame.
BLITZER: All right, Mitch, I want you to continue to watch this story for us. We're going to come back to you as we get more information, an emergency situation developing in Chicago, smoke reported on the el train there, we're going to get back to Mitch Walker of our Chicago bureau shortly.
Let's get back now, though, to the fallout from the terror attacks in India. India clearly experiencing what New York City has long feared, a terror attack on the city's transportation system.
Right now it's rush hour in New York. Police are keeping close watch, CNN's Mary Snow is in New York, she has got the latest on our "Security Watch." The fallout from India on New York, Mary, what's going on?
SNOW: Well, Wolf, tonight the Department of Homeland Security is saying there's no specific or credible intelligence suggesting an imminent threat to transit systems in the U.S. Officials here in New York also echoed that, that there is no specific threat but tonight they beefed up security as a precaution.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Taking a cue from India, New York officials ordered stepped-up security during their rush hour. The police commissioner says there's no specific threat to New York, that they are acting as part of a precaution.
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: Is that event part of a world wide operation, worldwide threat? We don't know, but we'll do what we think is prudent in this situation.
SNOW: Saying the city's trains are a prime target for terrorists, the police department increased measures it's implemented since the Madrid and London bombings, doubling random bag searches, deploying explosive detection units like these. Officials declined to discuss specifics, saying they preferred them to be unpredictable to keep possible attackers off balance.
Mayor Bloomberg says an attack on any transit system in the world is a serious warning.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, (R) NYC: Vigilance is just the reality of the post-9/11 world.
SNOW: Security was ratcheted up at commuter lines, including PATH stations which were specifically mentioned in a foiled plot that led to several recent arrests overseas. Besides trains, officials said security would be tighter on ferries as well. Other cities are also being vigilant following the Mumbai attacks. In Atlanta, spokesperson for MARTA said the security was increased because of world happenings.
In Los Angeles, the Metrolink redeployed some of its officers to busier stations. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And wolf, other cities such as Miami and Washington, DC saying while they didn't take any specific action today, overall security on its transit systems has been beefed up since Madrid and London bombings.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Mary, thank you very much.
So how extensive is the extra security in New York City right now? Joining us is Ray Kelly, he's the commissioner of the New York City Police Department. Commissioner, thanks very much for coming in. How worried should New Yorkers be? Millions go on the subway every day, as you know.
KELLY: Well, we hope near not worried at all. Obviously when you have a major event like you had in Mumbai, there can be a heightened sentence of anxiety. We have no specific threat against the transit system in New York but we have taken additional precautions, we've increased the officers throughout the systems, we've doubled our bag searches, we have what we call critical response vehicles, over 100 officers have responded to transit facilities. We do that on a daily basis. They just focused today on our transit facility.
So, you know, we don't want people to not be concerned. Let the professionals do their job, let us be the ones that are worried about it.
BLITZER: This was a very carefully coordinated attack in Mumbai today, seven separate attacks going off almost simultaneously, similar to what happened in London a year ago, a couple years ago in Madrid. I assume that the Madrid/London/Mumbai pattern resulted in your taking this precaution today?
KELLY: Yes, you're absolutely right, Wolf. These bombings took place within 11 minutes, they were very powerful explosions. It appears that they were in the overhead racks, because most of the injuries to the dead and wounded are in the head or upper torso area. So we're trying to learn everything we can about these events in London and in Madrid, we had officers on the scene fairly quickly to get information back to us. We'll most likely be sending our officers in Singapore to Mumbai to see if there's any information we can glean that will help us better protect our system here.
BLITZER: Are you getting any indication from authorities in Washington, whether the intelligence community, the Department of Homeland Security, or anyplace else, who might have been responsible for this attack in India?
KELLY: No one has claimed credit for it. Obviously there are suspicions to what group or groups may be involved, but it's pure speculation at this time. BLITZER: So there's nobody who's come forward and made a claim, at least not yet. Quickly, because we're almost out of time. Any words of advice for the millions of New Yorkers who will get on the planes in the morning or maybe even tonight?
KELLY: Well, I think we have a very comprehensive security program in our transit system. I think we have the best police department in the world, we understand that people may be anxious but as I say, leave the worrying to us. I think we have a comprehensive and well thought out plan to protect our system.
BLITZER: Ray Kelly is the commissioner of the New York City Police Department, appreciate you coming in, commissioner.
KELLY: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: And to our viewers, stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security. Jack Cafferty lives in New York. He is joining us now with the "Cafferty File".
Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: And it is bar none the best police department in the world. They just don't come any better than the NYPD. On another note, thank God we have Congress to protect us from ourselves.
Declaring that Internet gambling is addictive, dangerous and should be outlawed, the House of Representatives today saved us. They passed a bill to regulate Internet gambling.
Representative Tom Osborne of Nebraska said, quote, "The ease of Internet gambling poses a very serious threat to our families and our society," unquote.
Statements like that make you wonder about the wisdom of electing football coaches to Congress. If you don't want to gamble on the Internet, don't do it. If you don't want to go to Las Vegas, don't do it, if you don't want to go to the racetrack, don't do it, if you don't want to shoot dice in the alley, don't do it.
Doesn't Congress have anything else to worry about it? And there would be exemptions. You couldn't gamble in an on-line casinos, but there's still on-line lotteries and Internet betting on horse racing. We're talking about a group of people that have no idea how to address the important issues that matter to people, but somehow think they have the collective wisdom to regulate the Internet. How utterly absurd.
Here's the question, "Should Internet gambling be illegal? E- mail us at caffertyfile@cnn.com or go to cnn.com/caffertyfile. Wolf?
BLITZER: Jack, thank you for that. Jack Cafferty in New York.
Coming up, the debate over Guantanamo Bay and the treatment of terror detainees there. The Bush administration puts a policy shift on paper today, but is the Gitmo problem much bigger than that? I'll ask the number two Democrat in the U.S. Senate, Dick Durbin. He's just back from Guantanamo Bay.
And a story just in to CNN. A major computer break-in. Were state secrets revealed? We're tracking the story on-line.
And might rare California wines become even more rare? Some experts say global warming is threatening the fruits of West Coast vineyards. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're getting word of a large wildfire in the Southern California desert, prompting some mandatory evacuations. Let's check in with Zain Verjee. She has got the details. Zain?
VERJEE: Wolf, right now a raging wildfire is threatening an area where dozens of Hollywood western films were made. It's called Pioneer Town in the Southern California desert. Fire officials are saying the winds have whipped over 20 miles an hour, and that's fanning the flames and over 1,000 acres have been burned so far. There are, as you say, Wolf, mandatory evacuations, and it's just one of a series of blazes that actually started on Sunday. Some 200 firefighters are battling the blaze. We'll bring you more when we know more. Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain, thanks very much.
And this is just coming in as well. We're learning the State Department is recovering from a major computer break-in which targeted the headquarters and offices dealing with sensitive issues like China and North Korea. Abbi Tatton is standing by.
What do we know, Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, State Department officials say tonight that late last month they noticed indications that hackers had broken into State Department computers, computers both here and overseas. Most heavily affected in the State Department, their bureau of East Asian affairs, a bureau that covers countries, including China and North Korea. Officials saying that hackers used a varieties of methods -- stealing passwords and also setting up back doors to try and secure regular access to these computers.
The source of these hacks seem to be coming from computers in east Asia, the State Department saying that they're now setting up an investigation to try to determine exactly where they're coming from. Now officials are saying there was no loss of significant data and that the State Department's classified systems were not compromised. However, some officials have been changing their passwords since the hack was discovered, as a precaution. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right. Abbi, thanks for that.
Still to come tonight here in THE SITUATION ROOM, a developing story we're watching. Syndicated columnist Bob Novak speaking out, actually writing about the CIA leak case, information he hasn't been willing to share with us until now.
Also ahead, Congress debating prisoner treatment at Guantanamo Bay and whether the facility should be shut down altogether. I'll ask the Senate Democrat Dick Durbin about the latest legal and political wrangling over trying terror suspects. He's just back from Gitmo.
And the Condinistas, political activists who Condoleezza Rice is the Republicans' best hope to winning the White House in 2008. Why can't they accept her insistence that she's not in the running? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check back with Zain. She's got some other important headlines making news right now. Zain?
VERJEE: Wolf, as we speak, a new wave in Israel's offensive in Gaza is under way. Israel's army confirms that ground troops and armored vehicles have entered central Gaza, moving into areas they have not actually entered in during the two-week operation aimed at winning the release of the kidnapped soldier and halting Palestinian rocket launches. Palestinian sources say one member of the Palestinian security forces was killed in an exchange of fire.
The costliest highway project in U.S. history is now a crime scene. Massachusetts' attorney general says that's how he's treating this morning's fatal collapse in Boston's so-called Big Dig tunnel.
Concrete ceiling panels weighing at least 12 tons fell on a car carrying a recently married couple. The man crawled to safety, but his wife was crushed to death. Governor Mitt Romney says he'll take legal action to remove the head of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority.
And in a case of industrial espionage gone awry, former Coca-Cola employee and two other people find themselves indicted today. They are charged with conspiring to steal trade secrets from the soft drink giant and then offering to sell the information to Coke's rival, Pepsi for $1.5 million. All three pleaded not guilty. The judge also barred them from discussing the trade secrets except with their attorneys.
Ann Coulter's syndicator is standing by her work and her words dismissing allegations that the outspoken columnist lifted material from other sources. The "New York Post" and two Web sides reported a software program used to detect plagiarism found matching text in some of Coulter's columns and latest book, "Godless". In a statement today, Universal Press Syndicate says it finds, quote, "no merit to the allegations." Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much.
And we're following a developing story right now. Bob Novak, the syndicated columnist for the first time is now talking about his sources and releasing the name of Valerie Plame-Wilson, the clandestine CIA officer at the heart of a huge CIA leak scandal. We're going to tell you what Bob Novak is now saying for the first time. That's coming up.
Also just ahead, the Bush administration vowing that terror detainees will not be tortured, will be treated humanely. Coming up, my interview with Senator Dick Durbin, he is just back from Guantanamo Bay.
And Condoleezza Rice, they want you. An all-out effort to try to convince the secretary of state to campaign for the president of the United States. We'll tell you the latest, what's going on. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: You're back in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Tonight, a striking shift in the bush administration's policy on Guantanamo Bay prisoners. A new memo says all detainees in U.S. military custody are now entitled to the protections laid out in Article III of the Geneva Conventions. This comes on the heels of a Supreme Court decision blocking the president's plan for military tribunals.
Now the U.S. Congress is beginning a politically charged debate is starting on how they should be treated and tried. The number two Democrat in the U.S. Senate, Dick Durbin is back in Washington after visiting the Guantanamo Bay detention center yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Senator, thanks very much for coming in. Did you actually get a chance to meet with any of these nearly 500 detainees there?
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN, (D) IL: Yes, I did get a chance to see them. There wasn't any direct contact with them, but we were given access to the entire camp facility. I think it was one of the first tours that saw everything, and I want to salute Admiral Harris, who I think is doing a great job with the soldiers and sailors at Guantanamo until very trying conditions.
BLITZER: He's the commander of the base there.
When you say you could see the detainees, did you watch them being interrogated?
DURBIN: Yes, there was a camera in one of the rooms, so we watched one of the interrogations, and it was much different than you might imagine. A relationship had been developed between the interrogator and the translator. The interrogator sat down, opened a bag, handed the detainee a Subway sandwich. He lit up, and started eating the sandwich and started talking. It was a much different circumstance than most people would imagine.
BLITZER: Some of the critics would suggest this was a dog and pony show for an important legislator who had come by to visit, that this was simply not the real world at Guantanamo. Are you convinced that what you saw is actually the reality of that prison? DURBIN: You know, that's possible, Wolf, but I don't believe it happened. I think that Admiral Harris went out of his way to make sure that we saw the situation and the reality that they face.
Now, there could be tougher interrogations, I'm sure there are, but I think under most circumstances, what I heard was reassuring. Because the chief interrogator told me they follow the Geneva Conventions and follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I talked to some of the interrogators, and they acknowledged that a few years ago the message was really confusing from the Pentagon and from the administration was really confusing. They were saying that Geneva Conventions didn't apply and there would be a new definition of torture. That wasn't fair to the interrogators or the troops and I'm glad that that era is behind us.
BLITZER: If the situation has so dramatically improved, why were you told the three suicides occurred only a few weeks back, why did three of those terror detainees commit suicide?
DURBIN: It's hard to answer. I know there were other attempts that were made, too. I'm sure some become so despondent, they decide that suicide is the only option. There are some of course that are under treatment now for depression, the kind of psychiatric medication that is need for them to continue, that will happen in a situation with 450 people, some of whom have been incarcerated for more than four years, but I think overall the environment and circumstances at Guantanamo are dramatically improved.
BLITZER: Is -- Are you pleased -- I assume you are pleased by the memorandum that the deputy defense secretary Gordon England put out today saying that the Geneva Conventions should be applied to these terror detainees even though they were not uniformed military personnel representing a state government or anything along those lines?
DURBIN: You know, Wolf, we've fought many wars and used the Geneva Conventions standards and used them successfully to interrogate prisoners and for the conduct of our own soldiers. This was the first administration that I know of that decided that they should depart from those standards and values.
That was a serious mistake. And history will not judge them well for that decision. But I'm glad to see that Gordon England made that decision today in a memo that all of the detainees in military custody will be protected by the Geneva Conventions.
BLITZER: If the U.S. tomorrow were to capture Osama bin Laden on the battlefield in Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or wherever he might be hiding out, or Ayman al-Zawahiri, the number two, what would you recommend? How -- should they be accorded the rights of prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions?
DURBIN: I know that Osama bin Laden has been guilty of some of the worst war crimes in the history of humankind. And if he is apprehended, he must be held responsible for that conduct, should be tried and treated accordingly. We must treat him, though, with the kind of basic values that we've always stood by as a nation. And in doing so, we're not only projecting our image to the world, we're saying exactly how we want our soldiers treated if they are ever taken prisoner.
BLITZER: Would you want him in -- at Guantanamo Bay, or at a federal maximum security prison in the United States, like Marion, Illinois, for example?
DURBIN: Well, I would tell you I couldn't guess the best place for his incarceration. I hope the CIA will reactivate its efforts to find him. That's for sure. And if they do find him, I'm not sure where he'll be tried. But I believe that that should be the outcome.
BLITZER: Your bottom line is you were impressed by what you saw at Gitmo?
DURBIN: I was impressed, but I understand the powerful negative image of Guantanamo around the world. And I do believe we should close down that facility over a few months' period of time.
We're down to about 300-plus detainees who would have to be transferred to some other facility. But it would say to the world the Supreme Court decision has been a break with the past. And from this point forward, the United States is going to be much more open and transparent in its treatment of prisoners, and we're going to live consistent with the Geneva Conventions standards.
BLITZER: Senator Dick Durbin is the second ranking Democrat in the Senate.
Thanks for coming in.
DURBIN: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And still ahead, there's some new developments, potentially significant developments in the CIA leak case. The syndicated columnist Bob Novak has been silent on his sources. He's now revealing what he learned, how he got the name of a clandestine CIA officer. We're going to share with you what Bob Novak is now saying.
Also, recruiting Condi Rice for president. She says she won't run, but a group of voters trying to draft her regardless. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Tonight, after many, many months in silence in the CIA leak investigation, the syndicated columnist Robert Novak is saying more about his sources and the disclosure of Valerie Plame Wilson's identity. Brian Todd is following this developing story. Brian, what are you picking up? BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in his syndicated column for tomorrow, originally posted on the Web site Human Events Online, Bob Novak writes that the two and a half year investigation into his role in the CIA leak case is now over. He defends his rationale for revealing the name of former CIA officer Valerie Plame in 2003, and he explains why he testified about his sources to investigators, while other reporters did everything they could to avoid testifying.
Novak writes that special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, quote, "Knew the names of my sources," end quote. That is before Novak testified. Human Events has since taken down most of the column, leaving up only the opening graf.
In the version published earlier, Novak does not reveal his primary source, but he does repeat what he has asserted before, that deputy White House chief of staff Karl Rove and former CIA spokesman Bill Harlow were his secondary sources, confirming Plame's identity.
Bill Harlow was not available for public comment on this latest column by Novak, but has never denied speaking with Novak about the story. A former intelligence official familiar with the issue, however, tells CNN when Novak first called about CIA about Valerie Plame, he claimed to have more than one source on her name.
This official says Harlow at first did not know what Valerie Plame's position was at the CIA, but when he called back, Harlow called Novak back and tried to convince him not to run the story, making it clear it could be damaging. We also have a call into the White House for comment from Karl Rove. We have not heard back yet -- Wolf?
BLITZER: All right Brian, thanks very much.
Let's talk a little bit more about Bob Novak's column, his sources, the CIA leak investigation. We're joined now by our senior national correspondent John Roberts, also Howard Kurtz of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" and the "Washington Post" is on the phone, as is Jim VandeHei, the national political reporter for the "Washington Post."
Let me start with you John, give us your sense of what this means, this column that Bob Novak has written discussing stuff he's previously refused to discuss publicly.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It answers a few questions. First of all we know that he was interviewed by the FBI. There was some question as to whether or not he was.
He was interviewed by Fitzgerald. Everybody assumed he was, but nobody really knew. And he appeared before the grand jury and he did not roll over on his sources, because, as he says, Fitzgerald already had those sources.
We know he talked to Karl Rove for sure, which everybody thought he did, and that he talked to Bill Harlow at the CIA, which he has said in another column that he did. But we still don't know who gave him the name originally. So it answers some questions, fills in a little bit of nuance, but still leaves the big piece of the puzzle out.
BLITZER: Jim, give us your assessment, what we've learned from this Bob Novak column.
JIM VANDEHEI, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST (on phone): Well it certainly closes of one of the most interesting chapters of all this, given that Novak has been at the center of this from the beginning.
Now remember, the investigation's basically over, so anything else we learn isn't going to go to the heart of when anyone's going to get prosecuted or not for initially leaking the name of Valerie Plame.
I think a couple of things that are interesting are -- that still need to be known are, who was that first source? I mean if that first source, was, as a lot of people on the case seem to think it was, Dick Armitage, in at State Department, and is not, as Novak has described the source but not identified it, not a nonpartisan gunslinger.
That would seem to undercut this theory that was promoted by critics of the White House, that this was a concerted effort to go after a critic of the White House. They had said if it turns up that their primary source is somebody inside the White House, somebody very close to Bush, I think that paints this whole case with a different brush.
BLITZER: You understand, Jim, why Novak is still refusing to release the identify of the primary source?
VANDEHEI: Because he's not gotten permission from that source to do so. I believe what he's said is because Rove has been out there, Rove's lawyers have been out there talking about it, he feels at liberty then to talk about that part of the conversation.
And that because Harlow had been out there previously publicly talking about it, that he felt comfortable disclosing Harlow's role in all of this. But because he has not gotten permission from that third source, he said that he doesn't feel comfortable releasing it. That may become clear who exactly it is, but he could remain one of the great secrets of this -- what has been a big mystery for three years now.
BLITZER: Howie Kurtz is watching this story as well, he works for the "Washington Post," as well as hosts CNN "RELIABLE SOURCES." Howie, give us your perspective. You've had a chance to read Novak's column and you've certainly covered this story for a long time.
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN HOST (on phone): I've also had a chance to talk to Bob Novak, Wolf, and he does say that there's a difference between a confidential source giving a legal waiver to what somebody testified before a grand jury, which is what this mystery source did, as well as Karl Rove, who's name we already know -- and giving somebody the freedom to go public and publish a name or talk about it on television. And that's why Novak is still shielding the identity of this last person. But, look, the reputation of Bob Novak in particular and the press in general took a real hit in this case. Why? Because we journalists were seen as protecting sources who were not putting out some sort of information in the public interest about some kind of scandal or health or safety threat, but putting out information that was viewed as retaliation against Joe Wilson, a big critic of the administration on Iraq policy, by outing his wife as a CIA operative. And so Novak has felt all along, there's nothing stopping him from talking after he testified, but he has felt all along that he shouldn't say anything until Fitzgerald told him that his role in the investigation was over. And so frankly now he is trying to repair his reputation.
BLITZER: I suppose John Roberts this explains why Bob Novak did not go to jail for refusing to reveal sources, as opposed to Judith Miller of the "New York Times?"
ROBERTS: Well, he says in his column that he talked with his attorney and he chose to testify, chose to talk to the FBI, talk to Fitzgerald and testify, because he didn't want to court and fight it, A, because it would be very expensive, according to his attorney, and B, because of the court precedent that it might set in a ruling against him, as we found happened with Judith Miller. She was found to be in contempt of court for not revealing her sources, proving that journalists can go to jail for not revealing their sources when a judge asks them to.
BLITZER: John Roberts thanks very much. Jim VandeHei and Howie Kurtz of the "Washington Post." Thanks to both of you as well. We'll continue to watch this story.
Still ahead, in Chicago dozens of train passengers running for safety. A train derails amid a possible fire in a tunnel. We've been watching this story. We're going to go back for some more details.
Also turning up the heat, could global warming be a disaster for America's wine country? A look at the potential impact. We're going to take you live to California vineyards where growers are watching the news very closely. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A new development out in Chicago with that train apparently now derailing. We're going to go to Chicago momentarily, update you on the emergency situation that's developing. In fact, we just got this in from a spokesman in Chicago. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK KRUESI, CTA PRESIDENT: About 5:09 this afternoon, we had a report that there was a problem with a train. It turned out that's our information right now, that a train derailed, it was a northbound train, had just left Park Lake, was heading toward Grand. It started from Forest Park. It's an eight-car train. The train apparently derailed. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: These are live pictures you're seeing from Chicago right now. Clearly an emergency situation having developed in Chicago. CNN's Jonathan Freed is on the story for us. We're going to go there live in a moment, get all the latest information. Clearly a significant story involving a passenger train in Chicago. We'll get the latest information for you on this in a moment.
Let's move on though to some other important news we're following. Global warming threatening California's multi-billion dollar wine industry, that's the crux of a new study which says as much as 81 percent of the states's prime growing areas will be unusable by the end of the century. That's what the study suggests. CNN's Chris Lawrence is joining us now live from near Santa Barbara. Beautiful wine country behind you Chris.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just a beautiful landscape here, Wolf. And you know, these grapes produce some of the best wine in the world, but climate experts are warning that global warming could put entire vineyards in danger.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: America's wine industry is a multi-billion dollar business, but if a new scientific study is true, it's about to go bad.
NOAH DIFFENBAUGH, PURDUE UNIVERSITY: We're projecting an 81 percent decrease in total production in the United States for premium wines.
LAWRENCE: Noah Diffenbaugh of Purdue University is part of a team of climate experts who found that over the next century, global warming will increase the number of extremely hot days during growing season.
DIFFENBAUGH: The increases in those days are so substantial in this projection that that's where we see the real impact on the premium wine industry.
LAWRENCE: For maximum flavor, those premium wine grapes need to grow in specific temperatures, the kind found here in the valleys north of Los Angeles. California's vineyards employ thousands of workers and produce some of the world's best wines.
(on camera): If the climate does change, what does that mean to you?
LOUIS LUCAS, LUCAS AND LEWELLEN VINEYARDS: Well, it's a big if.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): Vineyard owner Louis Lucas is skeptical, but realistic.
LUCAS: The wrong weather can just take you out.
LAWRENCE: But vineyard owners say they're already adapting day to day, through rain and drought, hot years and cold ones.
ROGER WISTED, OWNER, BLACKJACK RANCH WINERY: It's hard for me to believe that we can get so warm here that it would be an issue.
LAWRENCE: Public interest exploded after being featured in the movie "Sideways." Like the Napa and Sonoma Valley wineries, this area has a unique combination of sunlight, heat and cold.
LUCAS: That's why we're here. Santa Barbara County is a great place to grow grapes.
LAWRENCE: The question is whether it will continue to be in the years to come.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Yet vineyard owners could switch to other, more durable grapes if it gets too hot to grow the premium ones. One owner told me it may not be the kind of wine you store for 30 years, but it's something.
BLITZER: And it's beautiful the scenery behind you. Chris, thanks very much for that report.
Political fans of Condoleezza Rice are refusing to take no for an answer. The secretary of state keeping say she's not interested in running for the White House, but they say that she's just what the Republicans need to win in 2008. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider has more on the draft Condi campaign.
BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, President Bush has no heir apparent for the Republican nomination in 2008, or does he?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Who will carry the bush legacy in 2008? Dick Cheney says he won't run. Republicans are having nightmares about another President Clinton. Who will save them? How about the most popular current public official in the country? That would be Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
JESSE DUFF, AMERICANS FOR DR. RICE: She has already been trained to run the White House. She knows how it operates. She know how it works.
SCHNEIDER: Retired officer Jessie Duff is head of Americans for Dr. Rice.
DUFF: When I was served on active duty, I was so impressed with her as a United States marine that I said that lady could be my commander in chief.
SCHNEIDER: Organizations are springing up to try to persuade Rice to run. One of them even has a song. They appear to be genuine grass-roots efforts, according to this seasoned political official. CHARLES BLACK, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: I think it's pretty much an amateur operation by sincere people. I can't find any of the professionals that I know who are playing the Wizard of Oz here.
SCHNEIDER: Secretary Rice has said she has no interest in running for president. She has avoided taking stands on controversial social issues. Would she be acceptable to conservatives?
BLACK: A lot of conservatives are not as demanding as they used to be about people coming down on their side 100 percent of the time. Witness the fact that Senator McCain is getting a lot of conservative support in the early going.
SCHNEIDER: Rice might be able to help, even if she's not at the top of the ticket.
BLACK: The eventual Republican nominee is almost certain to have her very high on the list for vice president.
SCHNEIDER: An African-American woman on the Republican ticket could shakeup a lot of political assumptions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Secretary Rice has one huge problem, she's the bearer of the Bush legacy in world affairs, that means the war in Iraq, Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider reporting, thank you.
We want to tell you some more now about what we're learning involving that fiery transit emergency in Chicago. We've confirmed here at CNN that a train has actually derailed. CNN's Jonathan Freed is on the phone. He's joining us from Chicago with the latest. What do we know, Jonathan?
JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): Wolf, I can tell you that I just came out of a news conference with various officials here in Chicago. They say that at this time there is no indication that it is anything other than a derailment and a fire.
This happened just after 5:00, Wolf, on the blue line, which is part of the subway and el system here in Chicago, part of the CTA, Chicago Transit Authority. This affected the last car of an eight-car train.
I can tell you that 76 passengers have been treated and transported to hospitals. Most of those people do not have serious injuries. I was talking to one person who was on the train. He told me that it just took a matters of seconds for that train to fill up with smoke. He said he saw an electrical flash. And then I asked him what color the smoke was, and he said it started out white, moved to gray, and then turned to black very quickly and just really filled up that car.
And he said the passengers opened the emergency doors, Wolf, and they made their way down the tunnel for about 300 yards. This passenger's guess was that they were probably under the river, the Chicago River here at one point and had to move a good 300 yards until they found an accessible emergency exit, and then they emerged right here near the corner of Milwaukee and Fulton, which is where we are now.
And I have seen, Wolf, in the time that I have been here, a number of people being treated with oxygen, loaded into ambulances, and being taken away. But the key point here from the head of the CTA is that as of now, there is no indication this is anything other than a derailment and a fire. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Jonathan Freed, thanks very much. We'll check back with you through the night. We're cover this story here on CNN.
Let's go to Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File." Jack?
CAFFERTY: House of Representatives passed a bill today to regulate Internet gambling. We wanted to know if you think Internet gambling ought to be illegal.
Darrel in Eagle Point, Oregon says: "Who the hell are these corporate funded weasels to tell me where and how to spend my money? So this is what they spare the flag for? An American whether they think they can pass judgment on all Americans who want to play cards online? The vast majority of people are not gambling addicts."
Judy in Boise: "Jack, as a mother, I'm afraid of Internet gambling. It's easy to get carried away with gambling and how can anyone know who's playing and whose credit card is being used? Too many questions up in the air on this one."
Rose writes: "Does anyone think this legislation came about because of an outcry from the voters or are our legislators responding to the deep pockets of our domestic gambling industry who see Internet gambling cutting into their profits?"
There's a thought.
Gus in Ontario: "Just when I thought nobody could outdo our House of Commons prowess, your Congress outdoes them again. Internet gambling : the latest member of the Axis of the Social Evils. My heart goes out to your voters."
Wade in Washington: "You're asking an audience with Internet capabilities and obviously use the Internet frequently about an Internet regulation question. Your results will most certainly be skewed."
Wade, there ain't nothing more skewed than the stuff we read on "The Cafferty File."
Michael in Prague, Oklahoma: "With legislators like this, I wish there were a site that was taking bets on the likelihood of the survival of our republican. I'd bet against it." And Henry in Mesquite, Texas: "I'm too old to chase women, Jack. I don't hunt, I don't fish, I can't take a vacation, gas prices are too high. And now they're going to take away my gambling. I didn't work my whole life to watch TV. Can't wait to vote this bunch of jerks out."
Wolf? Oh, if you don't see your e-mails here, go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile where we posted some more of them on the Internet. It's legal to read those, by the way.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you very much. See you tomorrow here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Let's find out what's coming up right at the top of the hour. That means Paula's standing by. Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf. Tonight's top story of course is the war on terror. We're going to get a live update on the India bombings, and CNN's investigative unit has uncovered some new details about the an alleged ringleader of a plot to bomb tunnels here in New York City.
And tonight, the top story on human rights. Some people who have escaped from North Korea have stories that will make you wonder how any of them could ever survive such inhumane treatment. A CNN exclusive, what is life really like inside North Korea? That's coming up, just about six minutes from now, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, sounds good Paula, thank you very much.
And still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, a family affair. When being a twin helps get you the job of prime minister. Jeanne Moos with her unique look at this inside job.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Poles who look to their country's leadership are literally seeing double. CNN's Jeanne Moos explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you think all politicians are alike, well here are two who are really alike.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you say twins in Polish?
MOOS: Twins of the world rejoice. Poland's president has appointed his twin as prime minister. Now this may seem shocking to outsiders, but the Poles are used to these two. The twins were child movie stars back in 1962, in a film called "The Two Who Stole the Moon."
Their hair has gone from blond to silver, they founded their own political party. Lech Kaczynski was elected president last year and now he's appointed his brother Jaroslaw prime minister. JAROSLAW KACZYNSKI, POLISH PRIME MINISTER-DESIGNATE (through translator): We have decided to take this risk and it is risk when the prime minister and the president are brothers.
MOOS: It will be a risk telling them apart. The president, screen right, has two moles on his face. He also wears a wedding ring. The prime minister is single and lives with his mother and cat. Sort of reminds us of the movie "Dave" where Kevin Kline is an average guy who looks like the president and ends up substituting for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a very handsome man.
KEVIN KLINE, ACTOR: Thank you, Mr. President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just get rid of the grin, you look like a schmuck.
MOOS: Just think, when President Bush met with Poland's president five months ago.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. President, welcome to the Oval Office.
MOOS: W could have been unwittingly welcoming his double. Twins like Lisa and Debbie Ganz, authors of a book on twins, sometimes switch identities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. We've switched everything. We've switched classes, we've switched on boyfriends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have one membership to the gym.
MOOS: The president and the prime minister have reportedly admitting taking exams for each other in their young. But these two Geminis tend not to joke about their twin status.
(on camera): They don't like to do interview together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do interviews together because we know it's annoying.
MOOS (voice-over): In a poll, 67 percent of polls said that Kaczynski twins should not hold both offices.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our twin motto always, which he could steal from us is you can only make a first impression once. We make it twice.
MOOS: Sometimes once is enough, though the new prime minister sure kissed enough for two. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: I love Jeanne Moos. Only Jeanne Moos does those kinds of reports. That's it for us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Paula? TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
