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France To Send More Troops To Lebanon; Iran Wants More Nuclear Talks; FDA Approves Over The Counter Morning After Pill

Aired August 24, 2006 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Kitty. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, nuclear showdown, could North Korea be close to testing a nuclear bomb? And what are Iran's nuclear ambitions? Is Israel concerned enough to launch a unilateral attack.

Hunting for bin Laden, will Pakistan let U.S. troops track him down? I'll ask that country's ambassador to the United States.

And in the tropics, trouble ahead. Could we have a tropical storm, maybe even a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico by next Tuesday? That's the fist anniversary of Hurricane Katrina.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

There is fresh concern tonight about North Korea's nuclear program. The world's attention is once again focused on very suspicious movements at a secret site. Could it soon be the site of a nuclear explosion?

Our Zain Verjee is following the story. She's joining us now live with the latest -- Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, there are more ominous signs North Korea may be preparing to test a nuclear bomb underground.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE (voice-over): More movement, vehicles coming in and out of a suspected nuclear site in North Korea, Japan now beefing up surveillance. That's what (INAUDIBLE) news agency is reporting today, quoting an unnamed government official. U.S. intelligence analysts have spotted suspicious activity, too, confirming to CNN last week that they're carefully tracking movement. The fear, North Korea will conduct an underground nuclear test.

WENDY SHERMAN, THE ALBRIGHT GROUP: Either North Korea is really just yanking the international community's chain or it is actually going to conduct an underground nuclear test.

VERJEE: North Korea test fired seven missiles last month, rattled regional nerves, and got slapped with U.N. sanctions. The war in the Middle East knocked the North from the headlines. Experts say Kim Jong-Il (ph) is desperate for attention.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They look at what's happening with Iran and all the attention that Iran is getting and Iran does not yet have a nuclear weapon. They want just as much attention.

VERJEE: Diplomacy has hit a dead end. Six-party talks have stalled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

VERJEE: Today South Korea says the prospects of returning to the table are dark as the North shows no sign of coming back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nuclear test is really their ace of spades and to have them play it now would be a bit surprising. But they may have decided that they have nothing to lose at this point.

VERJEE: If North Korea blows a bomb underground, there will be no spy video to capture the moment, but seismographs (ph) will detect any detonation in real time through a global monitoring system and radiation can be traced to confirm its nuclear nature.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: One North Korea expert we spoke to says the options facing the administration are talk, bomb or watch and that for now appears that the administration has decided to wait and watch -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Zain thank you very much. Germany is the latest power to voice displeasure over Iran's nuclear stance, saying Iran's insistence at enriching uranium hinders a negotiated solution. The Bush Administration says it will wait for United Nations deadline at the end of this month before seeking punishment for Iran.

But in Iran tonight there is defiance. Our Aneesh Raman is the only U.S. television network correspondent in Iran right now. He's joining us live from Tehran. Aneesh, what is the latest? What are you getting? What kind of reaction from the Iranian government?

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well the Iranians aren't at all surprised of the reaction they're getting from the world to their response. The U.S. saying it falls too short, Germany as well, but hopeful signs coming from Russia and China saying that a new round of dialog might help to end this in a diplomat fashion.

This is a chess game Iran has been playing for years now. The latest move not to suspend its nuclear program by the U.N. deadline, but give fodder for countries like Russia and China to perhaps block immediate sanctions against Iran. The larger context, of course, Iran has been moving in this direction for some time.

With Saddam Hussein out of Iraq, there was no balance of power in the region for Iran, so it stood up with force. It now has an arm in its support for Hezbollah against Israel. It has an arm in its influence in Iraq over the U.S. And it wants to be treated with respect and that is what is fueling this defiance, a desire by Iran's president and by this government, Wolf, to be engaged with -- specifically by the U.S. but seen as the power in the region -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Are you seeing any evidence Iranian officials are concerned about a military strike to try to take out Iran's nuclear facilities?

RAMAN: Quietly they voice some concern. Publicly they say they're not worried at all, that the U.S. and Israel, if they unilaterally attacked Iran, are aware they think that would broaden the conflict and engulf this entire region in war. We have seen these war games going on for quite some time, set to go on for a month more.

They are establishing a new defensive doctrine. It's a lot of show. We don't get much info on exactly what they're using in this new defensive doctrine, but the sign, the message we're prepared for any attack. Within the government, I am sensing some divisions emerging. Among government officials who think Iran shouldn't go so far and get sanctions for this nuclear program. Others are saying that they should go all the way -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Aneesh Raman in Tehran for us, thank you Aneesh. Israel has reportedly acquired two more German made submarines capable of carrying nuclear warheads. While Israel does not publicly confirm having nuclear weapons, it's believed to have a very significant arsenal. This comes as the "Jerusalem Post" is reporting Israel is prepared to go it alone against Iran if the world community doesn't act to halt Iran's nuclear program.

David Horovitz is the editor-in-chief of the "Jerusalem Post". David thanks very much for coming in. You quote a senior source in your paper today saying that Israel may have to go it alone against Iran. Explain to our viewers what you're learning, what you're hearing. What's going on?

DAVID HOROVITZ, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "JERUSALEM POST": Well first of all, you have a president in Iran, Wolf, who almost every day, and certainly at least once a week is telling the world that he wants to eliminate Israel, that Israel should be eliminated, and he's moving alarmingly towards a nuclear capability. And I think you unmistakably have in Israel of late is a growing concern that there may not be international will to stop him doing that.

And exacerbating that concern is also a fair, but perhaps America may not have the will or capability or the inclination or the support to take on Iran militarily. And very recently now, you have some Israeli officials who are entertaining the notion that Israel might take military action alone. I would be very cautious about this.

We have not that I know of public officials on the record in their own name saying that Israel is going to do this. As you rightly say the "Jerusalem Post" today quoted an unnamed very senior Israeli official saying Israel may have to go it alone. I've also spoken to people today who give less dramatic assessments and who stress many of the problems associated with an Israeli strike if Israel is contemplating it. Plainly the situation is becoming of ever greater concern to Israel. BLITZER: Well how much of a window is there? How much time is there before Israel would have to make that decision to strike at Iran's nuclear facilities, presumably with air power?

HOROVITZ: Well the question really should not be solely applied to Israel, Wolf, and that's something that all Israeli officials have been trying to stress for a long time. Iran talks most valiantly about wanting to eliminate Israel. But don't forget that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (ph) talks about the desire to be rid of the United States as well. And Israel's position has always been that this is an Israeli problem. This is a world problem.

You have an Islamic extremist regime dedicated to the spread of an Islamic extremist ideology. But in terms of a time scale, the assessments that you hear more and more is that if a decision is not taken within a very short time it will be irrelevant because say six or 12 months from now, and those are the kind of time periods you hear, it will be irrelevant. Iran will have reached the R and D stage where it can do everything that needs to be done and will then be able to duplicate those capabilities at many sites around Iran, at which point of course a military strike becomes much more complicated.

BLITZER: When I was in Israel I heard that same six to 12 month timeframe from senior Israeli officials as well. There are other U.S. officials here in Washington who think they have more time. But here's the key question. If Israel were to go it alone, could they do it?

In other words, back in '81, they did destroy Iraq's nuclear reactor (INAUDIBLE) but the Iranians presumably have learned a lot of lessons since then. They've spread out their facilities, deep underground bunkers. Could Israel take the action that would destroy Iranian nuclear facilities?

HOROVITZ: Again, I would like to answer you best by talking about this not solely an Israeli problem. I tell you a few months ago I interviewed Joe Lieberman, who was here, about the issue of tackling Iran and he said the most that America could do, never mind Israel, would be to set the Iranians back to send a message to maybe hit some of the targets.

There is no overwhelming confidence that Israel could take out Iran's program and there are huge differences (INAUDIBLE) in 1981. When Israel hit (INAUDIBLE) there was no expectation that Israel might possibly strike and that was it for Saddam's nuclear program. There was once -- one target. Israel took it out and Saddam lacked the resources. He lacked the expertise. He lacked the raw materials to rebuild and none of those things apply to Iran. Moreover, Iran has all kinds of capabilities to respond to anybody's military attack, so this is a much more complicated reality.

BLITZER: David Horovitz is the editor-in-chief of the "Jerusalem Post". David thanks for coming in.

And much more coming up on Osama bin Laden. Where is he right now nearly five years after 9/11? We're getting new information. That's coming up.

Jack Cafferty is off today. Still ahead, the politics of the so- called morning after pill, Plan B for adult women. A prescription will no longer be need. Find out how Senator Hillary Clinton apparently managed to outmaneuver the White House.

Also, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin taking a swipe at New York City and the rebuilding efforts at ground zero. Floods, twisters, and soon a tropical storm. Why forecasters are concerned about the Gulf of Mexico right now.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Many women will soon be able to buy the so-called morning-after pill without a prescription. The FDA today approved over the counter sales of the emergency contraceptive that's known as Plan B, but there is an age restriction.

For more now, let's go to our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta -- Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, after a contentious three years, the FDA has approved over the counter sales of the controversial morning-after pill to women ages 18 and older. The drug is called Plan B and contains a high dose of traditional birth control pills and when used within 72 hours of unprotected sex, it can lower the risk of pregnancy by almost 90 percent.

Now the drug works one of two ways. First it can stop ovulation or second, if the egg has been fertilized it increases the chance it won't attach to the uterus. Now if the egg is already attached to the uterus, the pregnancy will not be affected. Now critics have claimed it's tantamount to abortion. Opponents reject that and blame the three years to get it approved on political, not medical concerns.

So, is it safe? Well the evidence suggest yes. Some have raised concerns over the issues of blood clots, but like traditional birth control pills the risk is greatest for women who smoke. This drug has been available for sometime now to women but only with a prescription from their doctor. Now women 18 and older will be able to get it at their local pharmacy but will have to show proof of age, much like buying cigarettes. How many women will be affected? We're not sure. Of some three million unintended pregnancies a year, some guess that number will reduce by about half -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sanjay thank you very much -- Sanjay Gupta reporting. Was the former first lady and current U.S. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton behind the FDA's decision to approve over-the-counter sales of Plan B? That depends on whom you ask?

Let's go to our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, calling it a positive step forward, Senators Hillary Clinton and Patty Murray applauded the FDA's decision today to approve over the counter sales of Plan B and said they would allow Dr. Andrew von Eschenbach's (ph) nomination to head the FDA to proceed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: It had a bit of a struggle the last five and a half years. There's an ideological agenda in Washington. And it has been kind of married with a kind of antiscientific agenda as well. If with politicize science, we will not stand still.

KOPPEL (voice-over): For the last several years, Democrats Clinton and Murray had blocked two of President Bush's nominees to lead the FDA, not because the FDA wouldn't green light Plan B over the counter, but rather because it refused to make a decision either way. Now both lawmakers want the FDA to reconsider placing age restrictions on its sale.

But the White House, which has publicly maintained that the approval process was always up to the FDA, said the FDA made clear that it will insist on stringent conditions and restrictions on access to reduce both health risks and opportunities for abuse, especially to protect minors. Still both Clinton and Murray say barring any red flags, they would throw their support behind Von Eschenbach's (ph) nomination.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: But despite that support the FDA's acting administrator may not lose the acting title any time soon. That's because Louisiana Republican Senator David Vitter (ph) plans to hold up the nomination in hopes of pressuring the FDA to approve the import of prescription drugs from Canada -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Andrea Koppel reporting. Still to come tonight in THE SITUATION ROOM, on the trail of Osama bin Laden. We'll find out how trees and tapes may offer some key clues. Plus, Pakistan's ambassador here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Is the world's most wanted man hiding out along his border? I'll ask the ambassador.

And live pictures coming in from Cairo, an ancient pharaoh (ph) moving away from the pollutions, Zain Verjee tracking the story. She'll bring us up-to-date.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now called tropical depression number five. It's approaching the Caribbean, could be a named storm as early as tomorrow and maybe by next Tuesday -- by Tuesday, that's the first anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. It could be in the Gulf of Mexico. We're watching this story. Reynolds Wolf (ph) will have a full report. That's coming up.

Other news we're watching, new efforts tonight to try to put together a peacekeeping force for Lebanon. And there's a sizeable new contribution coming in from France, which may encourage other countries to join in as well. President Bush has been busy working the phones even while on vacation in Kennebunk Port (ph), Maine. That's where we find our White House correspondent Elaine Quijano. Elaine, what's the latest?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, it was about a week ago or so you remember that the president urged France to send more international peacekeeping troops to Lebanon. Well today France's president, Jacques Chirac (ph), announced he would do just that, upping France's commitment essentially from several hundred troops to now up to 2,000.

Obviously this is welcome news for the White House and President Bush in a written statement said today quote, "This is an important step towards finalizing preparations to deploy the United Nations interim force of Lebanon. I applaud the decision of France, as well as the significant pledges from Italy and our other important allies."

Now on the way here to Kennebunk Port (ph) where the president is spending a long weekend, he'll be attending a family wedding. The president also engaged in some telephone diplomacy calling the prime minister of Italy, as well as the chancellor of Germany and the president discussing not only Lebanon, but of course the situation dealing with Iran and the diplomatic efforts taking place. But on Lebanon, the president congratulated Italy's prime minister for his country's offer earlier this week to essentially take the lead for that UNIFIL force, also committing up to 3,000 troops for that. Of course the president views that UNFIL force as essential to helping to bolster the Lebanese army and in turn bolster the Lebanese government -- Wolf.

BLITZER: A lot of our viewers here, you say Elaine, a family wedding. They want to know who is getting married.

QUIJANO: Well what I understand -- the easy way to say it is it's his second cousin and of course it's a huge family affair. But the president we noticed did get some downtime today as well. Ahead of the wedding, he was spotted out fishing it looked like and we also were able to get some video of him as he was basically walking around the family compound there. We even saw his mother on a segue (ph) it looked like, tooling around, so very interesting.

BLITZER: All right. Let's see if we can get a picture of that, Barbara Bush. All right, thanks very much Elaine. Elaine reporting from Kennebunk Port (ph).

Just ahead on the trail of Osama bin Laden. Many believe he may be hiding out on the border of Pakistan so why hasn't the government there tracked him down? I will ask Pakistan's ambassador to the United States. I'll ask him that question directly. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And outspoken New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin doing some major damage control once again after taking an apparent swipe at New York City over ground zero.

And live pictures coming in from Cairo right now, an ancient pharaoh moving away from the pollution. We'll explain what's going on.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, as the key 9/11 anniversary nears, has the trail for Osama bin Laden gone cold? We'll hear from Pakistan's ambassador to the United States.

Almost a year after Hurricane Katrina hit, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin speaking out once again. Is he getting himself into trouble though once again?

And only within in the past half-hour or so, John Mark Karr has now arrived in Boulder, Colorado, the self-confessed killer of JonBenet Ramsey being moved to a police station right now. He's going to be facing the music very soon. We will watch the story for you.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Five years after 9/11, Osama bin Laden is still at large and the hunt continues. Why can't the United States or its allies track him down?

CNN's Brian Todd is investigating. He's joining us live -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there's a debate over how good the intelligence really is on bin Laden's whereabouts, but experts believe some intelligence can be gained from his public messages.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): We haven't seen him at all this year, but the last time we heard him, may provide a clue to Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. June 30, 2006, three weeks after a U.S. airstrike kills Iraq's al Qaeda leader, bin Laden responds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were deeply saddened by the passing of our loved ones, Abu Musaf (ph) and his companions.

TODD: So far this year Osama bin Laden has put out five audiotapes, a far cry from the several videotapes issued by his top lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI, AL QAEDA DEPUTY LEADER (through translator): Bush, do you know where I am? I'm in the midst of the Muslim masses. TODD: So is bin Laden hiding amidst the crowd or on a barren mountain top? A U.S. military intelligence official tells CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen bin Laden may be in the Tratrol (ph) region of Pakistan, a rugged mountainous stretch near the borders of Afghanistan, Kashmir and China. One reason, the response time it takes for bin Laden's tapes to reach the public, which average three weeks from a prominent news event. And there's this clue.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: The vegetation in the videotape that was shot of bin Laden that aired in the 2003 time period, he's walking around a very mountainous area with particular kinds of trees that apparently are peculiar to the Tratrol (ph) region.

TODD: Although that tape was made three years ago, Bergen and other analysts believe bin Laden has not moved around much since then. Others in the intelligence community dispute the Tratrol (ph) theory.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: In Tratrol (ph) you've got a mixture of people. You've got Ishmaels (ph), the Kolosh (ph) people. You have some Sunnis. People there who by People there who, by virtue of being orthodox Shia, would be, I think, hostile to bin Laden, given that he has endorsed killing Shia in Iraq, for example, as part of the strategy there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. believes that bin Laden is in Afghanistan. But John McLauglin, Peter Bergen and others disagree because U.S. and NATO forces are actively hunting for him there. Those forces, not allowed in Pakistan. Many experts believe bin Laden will probably issue another public message on the upcoming five year anniversary of September 11th, possibly even on videotape. That may give intelligence agencies more clues on his whereabouts, Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd, thanks very much for that report.

Joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM, is Pakistan's new ambassador to the United States, Mahmud Durrani and from New York, CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen. Mr. Ambassador, first of all welcome to Washington, good to have you here.

MAHMUD ALI DURRANI, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Thank you.

BLITZER: From Pakistan, I'll get to Peter shortly. But you don't believe Osama bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan, while so many other experts believe he is, in one of the rugged provinces there, in no man's land. Why are you so convinced he's not in Pakistan?

DURRANI: You see, as many analysts who say they are there, I think there's three times the number of analysts who tell you he's not there. So I am one of those three times and I think those issues have been brought home and that is Chitral is a very different region, he has no sympathy whatsoever in Chitral. The Ishmaelis there, it's sparsely populated and there are no crowds which he can get around. The people know each other. An outsider would stand out like a sore thumb and especially a sore thumb in this case because they don't like him there.

BLITZER: Is it a fact, though, there are parts of Pakistan -- and some of these areas along the border -- where even the Pakistani military dare not go?

DURRANI: Well Chitral is certainly not one of them. Chitral is a place where the army has been going in and out, staying there for years and years, way long time back. It is not part of the --

BLITZER: But there are other areas where he could be hiding in Pakistan.

DURRANI: There are the tribal areas but we are sure he's not there.

BLITZER: How can you be sure if you don't go there?

DURRANI: Who says we're not there? We are right up to the edge of the border.

BLITZER: You do go into those tribal areas?

DURRANI: Absolutely. You know that thing has changed for the last three or four years we are right up to front. We have about 900 posts along that border, while on the other side they're only about 100 posts, sorry, we have about 600 and there's only 100, and that area is patrolled, it's not a hiding place. We know that area. We have our intelligence there and we will catch him if he was there.

BLITZER: Peter Bergen is our terrorism analyst, he spent an enormous amount of time, as you know, Mr. Ambassador.

DURRANI: I know.

BLITZER: Researching this subject, he's highly respected. Peter, are you still convinced that Osama bin Laden is someplace inside Pakistan as opposed, shall we say to Afghanistan?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it's not really just my conviction. I mean that's the consensus view of the U.S. intelligence community and also of the U.S. military. There are basically two or three reasons I think that, that is also common sense. One is, Pakistan has done a very good job on some levels of going after al Qaeda.

But every single senior al Qaeda leader that's been arrested since 9/11 has been arrested in Pakistan. After the fall of the Taliban, al Qaeda essentially re-based itself in Pakistan, a country that Bin Laden has been visiting since 1980, a country that Ayman al- Zawahiri has been visiting since around the same time, the number two in al Qaeda.

And so when you have every senior leader of al Qaeda who's been captured in the post-9/11 era after the fall of Taliban in Pakistan, it's also common sense to presume that the leadership are also in Pakistan. Another part of this commonsensical approach is that you've got 20,000 American troops and 15,000 NATO troops on the other side of the border in Afghanistan performing in a rather aggressive manner against the remnants of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and they're just not encountering al Qaeda. It's common sense if you were a member of al Qaeda, would you stay in Afghanistan?

BLITZER: Well let me let the ambassador explain, respond to that. First of all, there are no -- the search in Pakistan is strictly Pakistani troops, there are no U.S. troops in Pakistan looking for Osama bin Laden. Why not let some U.S. troop's special operations forces go in and help you find the al Qaeda leadership?

DURRANI: Well I think the Pakistani troops are very competent. They are professional. They can do it. They know the terrain. They know the people. They know the issues, so we really don't need help. We do get some kind of help. I am not in a position to talk about that, because that's classified information.

BLITZER: Military sort of expertise.

DURRANI: Yes, yes, a lot of expertise, intelligence, and all that, so we are getting all the help that is necessary and important and I think your military understands that, your --

BLITZER: But politically, it would be difficult, shall we say, for the Pakistani government if U.S. forces were actually on Pakistani soil?

DURRANI: Most certainly it would be very difficult for Pakistan, an independent country. It values its independence, and they would not like somebody else to come and hunt for a problem that we have.

BLITZER: Peter, the other al Qaeda operatives who were found in Pakistan, all of them, I think, were found as a result of Pakistani involvement, Pakistani determination. Is that right?

BERGEN: Well, I mean, I think both U.S. and Pakistani cooperation. I mean, whether it's the arrest of Sheikh Mohammed, the operational commander who was found in rural Pindi, which actually happens to be the headquarters of the Pakistani army, near Islamabad or many others.

BLITZER: I asked a question Peter, sorry for interrupting, I asked the question, because is there some suspicion out there that Pakistan may not want Osama bin Laden or Ayman al-Zawahiri to be captured?

BERGEN: I think it is a tricky one. I mean in 2004, Osama bin Laden scored a favorability rating of 65 percent in a poll of Pakistani people. I would ask the ambassador, is there a Pakistani politician who scores higher numbers than Bin Laden.

BLITZER: Well what's the answer, Mr. Ambassador? Is there a sense that you really don't want to capture this guy? DURRANI: I think this is totally false, and I think it's ridiculous that Pakistan, who's put their life on the line, that we have suffered the largest number of casualties in this war and how can somebody say that we are not in it, our heart is not in it or we don't want to capture him.

Look at the number of people, I think one element that our friend forgets is the time line, when we captured this, this was in 2004 and earlier. Now, of course, we are spread out, our intelligence is spread out. We are dominating those areas and I don't think it is anywhere possible for him to be hiding in these areas. I can't say 100 percent, but I am sure I am 90 percent convinced that he's not there.

BLITZER: Do you expect, Mr. Ambassador, Osama bin Laden to do something to commemorate, if will you, the fifth anniversary of 9/11?

DURRANI: I'm not sure. I can't say, but I think we should put our heads together and I think one of the biggest dangers that I see is, is this, you know, blame-throwing game. I think there is no latitude for having any kink in our armor. The U.S., U.K., Pakistan, the other countries who want terrorists out, they should be joining together. They should fight the war on terror together. There should be no kinks in our armor. Because --

BLITZER: Mr. Ambassador, one final question before I let you and Peter go. There's some concern that's been expressed, if there were a successful assassination attempt against President Pervez Musharraf, who has been the leader and he's thwarted several of these attempts over the years, that Pakistan and its nuclear arsenal potentially could be a threat and Osama bin Laden has made it clear he'd love to get his hands on a nuclear bomb and kill millions of Americans, if he could. How worried should Americans be that that nuclear arsenal in Pakistan is vulnerable?

DURRANI: I think the people in the U.S. should know the Pakistan military, you have worked with us. You have interacted with us. For years, people have done courses here. You should have confidence in the Pakistan military and the Pakistani system. I think there is zero chance of the nuclear weapons falling into the hands of the extremists. The extremists in Pakistan are a very small minority. I wouldn't even put them in the region of two percent. So there's no question of the nuclear weapons going into their hands.

BLITZER: Mahmud Ali Durrani, is Pakistan's new ambassador here in Washington. As I said earlier, Mr. Ambassador welcome to the United States.

DURRANI: Thank you.

BLITZER: We hope you'll be a frequent visitor here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

DURRANI: It would be my pleasure.

BLITZER: Peter Bergen, is our terrorism analyst, he always is a frequent visitor in THE SITUATION ROOM. Peter thanks very much.

BERGEN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And don't miss an encore presentation of "In the Footsteps of Bin Laden," a "CNN PRESENTS" special two-hour investigation Saturday and Sunday night. These are the stories only CNN can tell you about the man who became the world's most wanted terrorist. Now more than ever, you need to know your enemy. Saturday, Sunday night, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Up ahead tonight, meteorologists say even as the threat from Tropical Storm Debby is diminishing, another potentially more dangerous storm could be forming right now. We're watching that situation closely. We're going to give you an update with Reynolds Wolf.

Then, the mayor of New Orleans, known for some controversial, off the cuff comments, but did he go too far with what he said about Ground Zero in New York City? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

BLITZER: Welcome back. The latest now on what's been a pretty wild weather day. A couple of motorists in Scottsdale, Arizona, were undoubtedly relieved to see rescuers when they got stuck in the fast- moving floodwaters there.

Firefighters had to wade out to get them at the so-called Indian Bend Wash after heavy rains caused floods in the area. Elsewhere, storm watchers have their eyes now on the Caribbean, where a tropical depression is taking shape. Let's go live to CNN's Reynolds Wolf.

(WEATHER REPORT)

BLITZER: And as the one year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina approaches, the outspoken New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin is finding himself back in the spotlight once again, and back in the hot seat. This time it's for word uttered during a "60 Minutes" interview.

CNN's Sean Callebs is joining us now live from New Orleans with more -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, anybody who spent any amount of time around Ray Nagin knows he's a charismatic individual who speaks freely. Well, for some, perhaps, he speaks a little too freely.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS (voice-over): Once again, officials working with the New Orleans mayor are in damage control. During an interview with "60 Minutes," Ray Nagin was asked why flooded-out cars and other debris still litter areas like the Lower Ninth Ward nearly a year after Hurricane Katrina.

CBS says Nagin said, quote, "That's all right. You guys in New York can't get a hole in the ground fixed and it's five years later, so let's be fair." Nagin is talking about Ground Zero in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks.

The mayor's spokeswoman said it's disappointing that "60 minutes" would release a statement she says taken out of context. Nagin's off- the-cuff remarks have landed him in trouble before. He apologized and spent weeks trying to distance himself from this.

MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: This city will be chocolate at the end of the day.

CALLEBS: Right now New Orleans is trying to lure tourists, industry and investment back to the city.

Business leader Rob Couhig ran for mayor against Nagin. Now they're on the same team. Couhig is heading up a committee Nagin appointed to rejuvenate New Orleans during the mayor's second term. He labels this a media-created story.

ROB COUHIG, NAGIN APPOINTEE: You guys, you're so desperate to say look at what Ray said now. Go with that story if you want. But if you ask me my opinion, I'm going to tell you that that story is inconsequential in the building of the city.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS: And the mayor's spokeswoman says that Nagin was simply trying to show the scope of this huge disaster while the horrific terrorist attack in New York was on one isolated area. Eighty percent of this city was underwater, and devastated.

I also asked her why she thought CBS chose now to release a statement before "60 Minutes" aired, and she said, we have so much to deal with right now with our citizens having to relive the disaster from last year, she said she's not going to speculate on the motives of CBS.

BLITZER: Sean, thank you very much. Sean Callebs reporting.

And still ahead tonight, we're going to take you live to Cairo -- Cairo, Egypt, where a pharaoh -- get this -- is now on the move. We will tell you what's going on.

And scientists rock the universe and knock out poor old Pluto as a planet. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's a story that's happening right now. A great warrior who brought power, prestige and splendor to Ancient Egypt has now been defeated -- not in battle but by pollution. Let's bring in Zain Verjee once again for the latest developments -- Zain.

VERJEE: Wolf, if have you seen postcards or guidebooks of Egypt, you may know him, here he is. Ramses II, the great pharaoh warrior. He expanded Egypt's empire and built many beautiful temples.

And look at this, his statue is being moved now from the center of Cairo to a knew museum that's based near the pyramids. There's been such a bitter debate in Egypt on whether to move the statue or not. It's being in Ramses Square for more than 50 years. It's now been accompanied by hundreds of people on foot as well as by car on the street in Cairo.

Egypt's antiquities chief says the pollution from trains and buses and cars as well as subway vibrations are ruining the 3,500- year-old statue.

The statue itself weighs about 125 tons.

Now, if you look -- look at this picture, you can see there's a steel cage around the statue. And that cage is connected to steel beams, two flatbed trucks are transporting that statue. And this trips is going to take a few hours. It's next destination is about eight miles away -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. We'll be watching every step of the way, Zain. Thanks very much.

Earth, meanwhile, lost a planetary neighbor today. Well, it's still there, but Pluto, the ninth rock from the sun, won't be called a planet anymore. Tom Foreman is here in THE SITUATION ROOM to explain what's going on -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The biggest news of the day and sad news. The astronomical community has been in an uproar over this and today they gave Pluto the big push.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): The discovery of Pluto in 1930 was an American success story. Plucked from the skies by the eager eyes of a 24-year-old, Clyde Tombaugh. It was a scientific sensation.

Disney even created a new cartoon character.

MICKEY MOUSE: Pluto. Hey, Pluto.

FOREMAN: But like it's namesake, Pluto was immediately in trouble. Many astronomers argued that it just didn't seem to be a real planet. It's oblong journey around the sun takes 248 years and crosses the orbit of Neptune. It is smaller than some moons in our system. And most importantly, over the past decade, other bodies somewhat like Pluto have been discovered not terribly from it.

So, the International Astronomical Union faced a question, should it call all of these new objects planets or downgrade Pluto?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From our point of view, the council (ph) is quite simple. If we have to do it over again, we would, knowing what we now know today, we would have never called Pluto a planet.

LEE MUNDY, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: So, the message is basically if you're small and unusual, you don't belong. If you're small and unusual, you have to fight for your life. FOREMAN: As a consolation prize, the Astronomical Union says Pluto will be called a dwarf planet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: That's like being the Miss Congeniality of the solar system. It's a very sad end for a not a very congenial planet, I must say. So cold, if were standing there right now, we would be frozen in an instant, which is good because that would keep the poisonous gases from killing us.

Nonetheless, I'm going to miss it. A beautiful little planet out there on the edge. And now, our universe...

BLITZER: We still have Pluto, but it's not the same.

FOREMAN: We will always have Pluto. That's what they say.

BLITZER: Thank you, Tom Foreman.

All of us now will have to get used to life without Pluto. So, what happens next? Let's bring in our Internet report Abbi Tatton.

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the world's astronomers have been debating this for years, now that the votes are in and Pluto is out, relegated to the somewhat inauspicious status here of dwarf planet, as Tom said, there are a lot of changes out there to be made.

We spoke to one owner of one site, thenineplanets.org, and amateur space site. He said he won't be changing the name, he couldn't if he wanted to, eightplanets.org has already been taken.

NASA, certainly has a lot of work to do. Search on their site, you get 20,000 or so hits for the word Pluto. Some of the sites -- the pages have been updated, others as you can see here, need some work.

But one thing NASA says won't change with this new definition of planet, their space mission, an unmanned space mission to Pluto that left in January, that planet or no planet is still on track -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Abbi, thank you.

Let's check in with Paula to see what's coming up at the top of the hour -- Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Thanks. In a few minutes, the latest developments in the kidnapping of those two western journalist in Gaza. I will talking with a veteran journalist who knows what they're going through, Bob Simon of CBS who spent weeks as an Iraqi prisoner -- in fact, some 40 days all.

So I'm going to be talking with Pam Paugh, that is Patsy Ramsey's sister, on today's developments in the JonBenet Ramsey case. Suspect John Mark Karr arrived in Boulder just moments ago. And we don't know if Karr's claims are true or not. But we are going to meet a woman whose child vanished some eighteen years ago. And since then, she has been inundated with false confessions and the cruel pain they cause, something we'll be exploring a little bit later on, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you, Paula. We'll be watching.

Still ahead, bombs, twisters and wild fires -- up next, our hot shots. Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.

Merrillville, Indiana (ph), eyes on the sky: dark clouds gather over an apartment complex in an area under tornado watch.

To Iraq now: bombs, blood and cleaning up. Civil defense workers hose down the scene of the latest car bomb. It's becoming a routine exercise there.

Elco County, Nevada (ph): raging wildfires. More than 360 square miles have gone up in smoke after a week of fires.

And in Japan, team USA's LeBron James sings the National Anthem just before a game with Senegal.

All that, some of today's hot shots.

That's it for me. Let's go to Paula in New York.

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