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The Situation Room
Democrats Take New Aim at Donald Rumsfeld; Republicans and Democrats Argue over War on Terror and Iraq; National Republican Party Did Not Get What It Wanted In Arizona Primary; Jack Murtha Interview; Duncan Hunter Interview
Aired September 13, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Carol, thanks very much. And much more on this story coming up. To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, open warfare on the war on terror and Iraq. Republicans taking new steps to portray Democrats as soft. And Democrats take new aim at Donald Rumsfeld. It is 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. We'll talk live with two influential House members, Democrat John Murtha and Republican Duncan Hunter.
Also this hour, a split decision. National GOP leaders score in the Rhode Island Senate primary. But they backed the wrong House candidate in Arizona. We'll take a closer look at the trends in top primary results.
And he's on track to become the first Muslim member of the United States Congress. Would Keith Ellison bring a needed perspective to the nation's capital? I'll ask him. He'll join us live. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
All that political news coming up. First this hour though, we're following that developing story out of Canada. At least one gunman, possibly two opened fire in the cafeteria of a Montreal college. Scores of students fled the scene, some of them in bloody clothes. Dawson College officials say six students were critically wounded. And the school says there were two gunmen, one of whom was shot by police. We'll have more on this unfolding story that's coming up. We're watching it.
But let's go to Capitol Hill right now. An election year tug of war over a resolution that seems as though it would be nonpartisan, but the measure honoring 9/11 victims is giving Republicans and Democrats another reason to do battle over the war on terror this week. Let's begin our coverage this hour with our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, yet another round in this highly politically charged environment in which you have both parties struggling to present themselves as being stronger on keeping the nation safe.
Two days after the 9/11 anniversary, Republicans in the House introduced this six-page resolution, which commemorates the 9/11 tragedy of five years ago. But that's not what has Democrats up in arms. Rather, it's the fact that the resolution also includes what the Republican Congress' record has been on passing legislation like the renewal of the Patriot Act and the House passed immigration bill, both of which were strongly opposed by many House Democrats.
And so much as Democrats attacked President Bush earlier this week for his 9/11 speech and what they said was injecting politics into what should have been a solemn occasion, House Democrats are also criticizing Republicans for doing much of the same thing with today's 9/11 resolution, carving out four hours of debate on the House floor. So on the House floor at this very hour, the battle, the rhetorical battle is continuing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Now is not the time to divide the country. Slogans and partisanship will not bring us victory. Stay the course. You're either with us or against us are not military strategies. Five years after 9/11, we must be clear. The war in Iraq has distracted us from finding Osama bin Laden, dismantling al Qaeda and fighting the war on terrorism.
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: I guess with Election Day less than 60 days away, they have chosen to say what was nonpartisan two years ago is extremely partisan today. And I regret that because there is a lot that we still have to do as a Congress. And I believe it's important for us not just to talk about the horror of September 11th, but to chronicle for history what we've done, what we intend to do and let history be our judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: But despite Democrats' objections to some of what is in this 9/11 resolution, many House Democrats are expected to support it because of the language that does commemorate the first responders and recognizes the national tragedy that happened five years ago, but also the political side of this, Wolf, the reality for many House Democrats is that not to support this resolution, they recognize, could very well be used against them as they look forward to the November midterms, many of which are very, very tight as they stand right now, Wolf.
BLITZER: And if you think the rhetoric is hot right now, Andrea, just wait as all of our viewers know as we closer to November 7th. Andrea, thank you very much for that.
Another partisan flashpoint today in the war on terror. Democrats are blasting the House Majority Leader John Boehner. You may remember Boehner had some very harsh words yesterday for Democrats who accused President Bush of politicizing 9/11 in his primetime speech Monday night.
Boehner said, and let me quote him now, he said quote, "I listened to my Democratic friends and I wonder if they're more interested in protecting terrorists than in protecting the American people."
Senate Democrat John Kerry fired right back today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I'm not interested in asking Mr. Boehner for clarification or retraction or even an apology. His statement was very clear and I believe equally despicable. And his words are frankly beyond redemption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: New evidence today that Republicans hold the political advantage in the war on terror. In a new ABC News poll, 48 percent of Americans say Republicans would better handle terrorism compared to 41 percent for Democrats. And take a closer look at this. The poll shows Republicans inching one point ahead of Democrats on this question -- which party would better handle Iraq?
The Democrats had been leading on Iraq in recent polls including a six-point edge in a survey last month. The ABC poll was taken in the days leading the up to the 9/11 anniversary.
Democrats today are trying to hold Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld accountable for failures and setbacks in Iraq. Senator Robert Byrd took his criticism of the war a step further today calling for Rumsfeld's resignation. The new House resolution also calls for the Pentagon chief to step down. Congressman John Murtha that says the future of the United States military right now is on the line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: The policies of this administration and the mismanagement of the war in Iraq by the Secretary of Defense have led to an erosion of the United States readiness for war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The House speaker Dennis Hastert is calling Murtha's resolution a political ploy to stop Republicans from passing their national security agenda. Just ahead this hour, I'll speak live with Murtha about the war on Iraq, the war on terror. We'll get the Republican response from the House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter. Both of these members of Congress joining us live this hour right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. In the meantime, let's check in with Zain Verjee. She's got a closer look at some other important stories making news right now -- Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, while Washington officials fight over the course in Iraq, the way forward is complicated with killings, car bombings and chaos. Today, 14 more people were added to the growing list of dead. They died after a roadside bomb exploded near a police patrol in central Baghdad. Meanwhile today the U.S. military reported this week's deaths of two American service members during operations around Baghdad. Prosecutors in Saddam Hussein's genocide trial say that they're getting a bad rap. The chief prosecutor says the chief judge is not giving them equal time to rebut Saddam Hussein's defense and the prosecutor wants the chief judge to step down, saying he's just biased. The judge denied that request saying that all parties are treated fairly. He then ordered the trial to resume. Hussein and the others are on trial for allegedly ordering the killings of 100,000 Kurds back in 1988.
In Afghanistan, NATO is trying to crush a stubborn Taliban resurgence and today NATO says its efforts are working. NATO says its recent operation, called Operation Medusa, has achieved two-thirds of its goals. Officials say the operation has caused the deaths of over 330 insurgents so far. Meanwhile a NATO official says 173 people in Afghanistan have been killed in suicide bombings since January and that nearly 90 percent of the victims were Afghan civilians.
All four attackers in yesterday's storming of the U.S. embassy in Syria were themselves Syrian. Now, that's according to officials in that country. Three of the men were killed by Syrian forces guarding the embassy. A fourth died a little later at the hospital. In the attack, the men first sent up a car bomb near the embassy, and then they storm it, but Syrian security forces beat them back. The Syrian embassy guard was also killed. No Americans were hurt.
More now on the developing story that we're following in Canada, the shooting at Dawson College in Montreal. At least one gunman reportedly opened fire. But school officials say there were possibly two gunmen. One student talked about what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard -- it sounded just like loud bangs. It turned out to be gunshots. When we looked out the window, we saw one man go down. He was shot either in the head or the neck because there was a lot, a lot of blood. He was on the ground convulsing. There were also a man with a gun standing in front of the entrance near the street. He waved his gun a bit and ran inside. And there was two other people that were shot, I don't know if it was by him, but I think they were.
VERJEE: CNN's going to continue to stay on top of that story developing from Montreal, Canada. And we'll bring you more information, Wolf, when we have it.
BLITZER: Zain, you went to school in Montreal. You went to college there. Are you familiar with this area where Dawson College is?
VERJEE: Yes, it's about a 12 acre campus in town. Montreal is such a student city. There are so many different universities there. Montreal -- excuse me -- McGill University, Concordia University that surrounds the area. There are thousands of students from different places around the world.
The central business district is around that area. St. Catherine street which is filled with people, shopping and businesses all the time. But the area is about 12 acres, and as we've been reporting, it has been sealed off. And we'll bring you more information when we have it.
BLITZER: And it is relatively unusual because in Canada they have very strict gun control regulations, much stricter than here in the United States.
VERJEE: Yes, they do. And, in fact, when I was in Canada a few weeks ago, there was a lot of complaints by lot of Canadians that I spoke to saying you know what? The U.S. talks a lot about border security and that's a real issue, but a lot of Canadians are complaining and saying, you know, guns are coming over far more frequently across the U.S. border into Canada that's allowing people who would ordinarily not have access to guns have much easier access to guns. That's been raised as an issue in Canada, and it is something that will probably be addressed today -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Zain is going to stay on top of this story. She'll bring us more information as we get it. Zain, thanks very much.
In the meantime, let's check in with Jack Cafferty. He's in New York. He's joining us with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, it's good to know that Congress has its priorities in order. The House of Representatives is right now, this minute, debating and will later vote on a resolution to commemorate those who died on September 11, 2001.
Five years after the event, two days after the anniversary, this is what your Congress is doing. The debate's expected to last several hours, and then, of course, they'll vote. And of course it's going to pass. Who is going to vote against it? The Senate went through this same exercise on Monday.
The resolution includes recognizing 9/11 as a day of remembrance, extending sympathies to the families of the victims, honoring the heroic actions of first responders and other officials, thanking the military and law enforcement, and vowing to stay vigilant in providing the government the tools it needs to fight the war on terror. All honorable objectives.
Meanwhile, President Bush continues to come under criticism for his speech Monday night. Democrats saying that he politicized 9/11 by talking about the war in Iraq.
So here's the question. Should it be a priority for the House to pass a bill commemorating 9/11 today? E-mail your thoughts on that to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. I guess they've taken care of all the other things like health insurance, Social Security, Medicare, immigration reform. That stuff's all been done, right, Wolf.
BLITZER: They did the horse meat issue last week while you were off, and I'm not sure you're familiar with what happened on that issue.
CAFFERTY: No, I missed that. The horse meat issue?
BLITZER: Yes, they banned exporting horse meat from the United States to other countries around the world.
CAFFERTY: They should ban exporting that other horse by-product that they use so much of down there to outside the beltway.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you.
CAFFERTY: You're welcome.
BLITZER: See you soon.
Coming up, the battle for Congress. We're going to tell you who won in the all-important primaries yesterday and what it means as Democrats and Republicans face off this November.
Plus, the former president of the United States, Jimmy Carter, speaking out. Wait until you hear what he told our Larry King about Senator Joe Lieberman.
And later, say hello to Keith Ellison. The Minnesota Democrat may soon become the first-ever Muslim elected to the United States Congress. Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. National Republicans and Democrats are busy reading the tea leaves today after the last big round of primaries before congressional elections in November. Of special interest, results in the Rhode Island Senate race and a House contest in Arizona.
Our chief national correspondent John King is standing by. But let's go to Providence, Rhode Island, first. Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash with the latest on the Lincoln Chafee victory.
Go ahead, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Republicans in Washington see their victory in the GOP primary here as a test run for the tactical model they hope to use against Democrats this fall. That is, attack hard on the air with TV ads and rely on a powerful ground game to get out the vote.
As for Senator Chafee, he took a congratulatory call from the secretary of state and got right back on the trail.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): The morning after a surprisingly decisive victory over a conservative challenger, Lincoln Chafee is already campaigning at the Stop & Shop. He has a Democrat to worry about now.
SEN. LINCOLN CHAFEE (R), RHODE ISLAND: Thank you, folks.
BASH: In a state where just two in 10 support the president, the Senate's most liberal Republican reminds voters he follows his conscience, not his party.
CHAFEE: Rhode Island is going to know I'm independent. They know that. Over and over again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He passed the prescription drug benefit.
BASH: At a senior center nearby, Democrat Sheldon Whitehouse says look at the big picture. A vote for Chafee means a vote to keep Republicans in control of Congress.
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), RHODE ISLAND SENATE CANDIDATE: If you like him, you can do more of it. You can send Lincoln Chafee back and get more of the same.
BASH: Opposition to the Iraq war is intense here, so Whitehouse is running against the sole GOP senator to vote no on Iraq by moving further to the left.
WHITEHOUSE: Change the direction of our country. Thank you so much.
BASH: He wants to end the mission now, and is even open to cutting off money for troops.
WHITEHOUSE: The push that we need to make is to drive in every direction we can, including through the funding to make sure that the Bush administration changes its policies and we work towards getting our troops home.
BASH: Back at the Stop & Shop, Chafee proves once again he's out of step with the president and party that just gave him money and manpower to help win the GOP primary. He did not rule out cutting off funding for troops in Iraq.
CHAFEE: I'll have to look further at it. Thank you very much.
BASH: Moments later, a fellow war opponent approaches Chafee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hope was that you would definitely try to stop the war over in Iraq.
BASH: Patrick Murphy voted for Chafee in the last election, but not this time. He knows Chafee's cast plenty of votes against the president, but ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just doesn't do it for me. I think the Democratic Congress and the Democratic Senate needs to come in to do the checks and balances of the president that is just not present that our founding fathers set up for us in this country originally.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BASH: Now, Chafee hopes his independence will blunt the sharp anti-Bush sentiment in this state, and Republicans in Washington are relying on him to pull that off, because the way they see it, if Chafee wins Rhode Island, it will make it a lot harder for Democrats to take back control of the Senate in November, Wolf.
BLITZER: Dana Bash, thank you. The National Republican Party did not get what it wanted in Arizona, where ideology and immigration were key factors in a widely watched House primary. Our chief national correspondent John King has been watching this race. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, this race is not as quirky or as zany as the Rhode Island race, the Lincoln Chafee race Dana was just talking about, but it is one of the most closely watched House contests this year. Consider this irony, if President Bush, in his final two years in office, wants to get his guest worker program, other immigration priorities, through the Congress, he'd be better off in this district if the Democrat wins.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The bitter Republican primary over, Randy Graf immediately sought to frame the next round.
RANDY GRAF (R), ARIZONA CONG. CANDIDATE: This will be a classic Republican versus Democrat, conservative versus liberal type message and I'm confident that our message will prevail.
KING: Graf's convincing victory over establishment favorite Steve Huffman is vivid proof a border security first message on immigration has broad appeal to the Republican Party's conservative base. The test now is whether Graf can sell that stance in a district moderate Republican Jim Colby has represented for two decades and a district that is high on the Democrat's list of November pick up targets.
Gabrielle Giffords won the Democratic primary and says Graf is too conservative for a district she believes is ready to send Washington a message.
GABRIELLE GIFFORDS (D), ARIZONA CONG. CANDIDATE: There's a lot of bickering and we're not getting the job done. And that's why I think the change can't wait.
KING: A Graf/Giffords match up offers contrast on abortion rights, tax cuts, whether it is time to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq. But it is viewed most of all as a laboratory for the national immigration divide. The district is a major crossing point for illegal immigrants and the Fall match up here puts two sharply contrasting views before voters who live the issue much of the country is debating this year. Graf says dramatically beef up bordered security first.
GRAF: And this, like I said, this doesn't stop it. You know, a barbed wire fence, this was obviously cut, certainly doesn't stop anybody from coming across.
KING: And Graf has a dim view of those who say that millions already in the United States illegally should be allowed to stay.
GRAF: Gave them status and then follow that up with citizenship, just doesn't make any sense to me.
KING: But what Graf calls amnesty, Giffords calls compassion and common sense.
GIFFORDS: For some of those people, there should be a path to citizenship. It is really important that we have a guest worker program in this country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, as this race goes forward, Wolf, there's no question the Democrats will pour a lot of money in to help Gabrielle Giffords, if she needs it. They're going to watch and see what the polls show in the next couple of weeks. The big question is what will the Republicans do. As you noted at the top, they didn't support Randy Graf. They supported one of his opponents. They think Randy Graf is too conservative to win this race.
But Randy Graf will be here in town tomorrow. He will get a $5,000 check from the National Republican Congressional Campaign Committee. He will get to meet with key other PAC leaders, who might donate him money. And the Republicans now say they're willing to forgive and forget. If Randy Graf is close in the polls, a month, a few weeks out from now, the national Republican party just might help. They need to try to keep that seat.
BLITZER: And if he wins that seat, what does that say nationally about conservative Republicans, especially, and this immigration issue?
KING: If he wins that seat, number one, the Republicans will be very happy because that is one of the Democrats' top targets. But from a policy perspective, you already know, Chairman Jim Sensenbrenner in the House, other conservatives in the House, they are not budging in this immigration fight with the president of the United States. If Randy Graf can win in this moderate district, they're not budging now, wait to see what they act like in January. The president won't get his way.
BLITZER: Voter turn out. That will be key, as in a lot of these close contests, obviously. Thanks very much John for that. John King and Dana Bash, part of the best political team on television. We're going to have more primary results now on our political radar.
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has another win on her resume. As expected she's trounced a longshot anti-war challenger in yesterday's Democratic primary in New York State. She'll face Republican John Spencer this Fall. He defeated Reagan-era Pentagon official K.C. Mcfarland (ph) in the GOP primary. In Maryland, Congressman Ben Cardin is the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate seat of retiring Democrat Paul Sarbanes. Cardin came out on top of a crowded field with 46 percent of the vote. His top rival former Congressman Kweisi Mfume came in second in a crowded field with 38 percent of the vote.
On the Republican side Michael Steele easily won the party's Senate nomination. He will face Cardin this Fall. Steele is hoping to become the only African-American Republican in the U.S. Senate.
Two new polls show Democrats leading Republicans in the battle for Congress, but by different margins. In the new ABC survey of registered voters, Democrats are ahead by eight points, 50 percent to 42 percent. In the new Gallup poll 53 percent of registered voters said they'd choose a Democrat for Congress if the vote were held today, 41 percent said they'd choose a Republican.
Tough new criticism today of Senator Joe Lieberman from a senior statesman of the Democratic party. Like many Democrats former President Jimmy Carter says he's not backing Lieberman's independent bid re-election after losing the primary to Ned Lamont. Carter tells CNN's Larry King he's lost confidence in Lieberman because of his support for the Iraq war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Joe Lieberman is a good man. He's been strongly in favor of the Iraqi war from the very beginning. He was one of the originators of public statements that misled the American people into believing that the Iraqi war was justified.
He's been an undeviating supporter of the war from the very beginning and still is. He's joined in with the Republican spokespersons by saying that Democrats who disagree are really supporting terrorism. So for all these reasons I've lost my confidence in Joe Lieberman and don't wish to see him re-elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: See all of former president Jimmy Carter's interview tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." That airs 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 pacific only here on CNN.
Former Congressman Tom Delay may be facing even more legal trouble. The highest criminal appeals court in Texas says it will consider reinstating a conspiracy charge against the former House majority leader, a charge that was dismissed by a lower court. That likely will set back a trial date for Delay on charges stemming from GOP fund-raising back in 2002. Delay strongly denies any wrongdoing.
And the outed CIA operative Valerie Plame and her husband Joe Wilson, have added another name to the civil suit. Lawyers representing the Wilsons say they'll now sue former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. This after Armitage recently revealed he told reporters back in 2003 that Plame worked for the CIA. The Wilsons' lawsuit already includes Vice President Dick Cheney, his former chief of staff Louis Scooter Libby and presidential adviser Karl Rove. The Wilsons say the White House leaked Plame's name after former Ambassador Wilson criticized the pre-war intelligence on Iraq. Even though he's been added to the suit, lawyers say Armitage was not involved in the alleged White House conspiracy.
Up next, open warfare over the war in Iraq and the war on terror. I'll speak live with two top House members, Democrat John Murtha and Republican Duncan Hunter.
And later Bill Clinton on the blogs. We're going to tell you why the former president is now teaming up with some top bloggers. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Less than two months before congressional elections, Republicans and Democrats have ratcheted up their attacks on one another over Iraq and the war on terror. A leading administration critic on Iraq, Congressman John Murtha, introduced a resolution today calling for Donald Rumsfeld to resign as defense secretary.
Congressman Murtha is joining us now in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Congressman, thanks very much for coming in.
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Nice to be here, Wolf.
BLITZER: I want your reaction to what the House majority leader, John Boehner, said yesterday.
I will read it to you. He said, "I listen to my Democratic friends, and I wonder if they're more interested in protecting terrorists than in protecting the American people."
Those are powerfully strong words.
MURTHA: Well, you know, Theodore Roosevelt said, if you don't speak out against a policy you disagree with, you're, in fact, a -- you're not a patriot.
I'm convinced they're desperate, for him to say something. He can't mean what he's saying. In this free country, if we disagree with the president when he's going in the wrong direction, and we want to change direction, you are going to have to speak out. We can't just go along with a policy which is a failed policy. And that is what -- and he's holding nobody accountable. That's the thing that's so distressing.
BLITZER: Does he owe you an apology?
MURTHA: Well, I think he owes all the members an apology who disagree.
This is not only Democrats. This is Democrats and Republicans. I go all over the country. Is he saying that people who served honorably in the service and they disagree with this policy, that they're terrorists or abiding by terrorism? No, that's not what's happening at all.
People disagree with the direction, because nobody is being held accountable and we're not making any progress. So, they're striking out, just saying anything, just like they did the Vietnam War, just like people said if Dien Bien Phu falls. Vice President Nixon said at the time it will be chaotic. Just because they say it doesn't make it so.
BLITZER: Well, what -- I think what they're suggesting -- I have spoken to Republicans who are trying to explain what Boehner meant. What they're suggesting is that, by wanting a withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq, before the Iraqis themselves are ready to take charge, you're undermining the war on terrorism, because Iraq has become central in that war.
MURTHA: Well, I don't agree with that at all. I think we have diverted ourselves against the war on terrorism. And there was no terrorism in Iraq at all.
We went into Afghanistan, as we should have, because that's where the attacks originated. That's where they were trained. Now, when we diverted ourselves, we started spending money, $2 billion, $3 billion, now $8 billion a month. We have had 130,000 troops over there for three-and-a-half years, longer than the European war in World War II, and we're making no progress. As a matter of fact, it's going backwards.
We have become the enemy. Eighty percent of the Iraqi people want us out of there. Oil production and electricity is below prewar level. Every measurement I use -- incidents have increased from 400 a week to 800 a week. So, it's just -- we're not making progress. We have had 130,000 people on the ground. So, it's time for us to change course. Redeployment is the only answer. Turn it over to the Iraqis. Let the Iraqis solve this problem themselves.
BLITZER: You and Congressman David Obey came out with a report today on military preparedness, military readiness. Here's the reaction of a spokesman for the House speaker, Dennis Hastert.
Ron Bonjean said this: "While America is fighting the global war on terror, Capitol Hill Democrats are confused about who the enemy actually is. Congressman Murtha's resolution is simply a political ploy to try to stop the Republicans' momentum from passing our national security agenda."
Political ploy on your part.
MURTHA: Well, you know, here's a president who has held nobody accountable. He gives George Tenet, my good friend, a gold medal. He promotes Wolfowitz, Secretary Wolfowitz, to head of the bank. And Secretary Rice used to be national security adviser. And Rumsfeld has been there running the war for three-and-a-half years, and it's gone backwards. We have to hold somebody accountable.
This can't be won militarily, Wolf. It can only be won militarily -- or it can only be won diplomatically. We have to restore confidence worldwide. The way you do that is to change direction. This has got nothing to do personal. This is something that has to be done in order to restore our credibility, so we can move forward diplomatically.
BLITZER: Here's what you and Obey, Congressman Obey, write, among other things in your report: "The U.S. Army's preparedness for war has eroded to levels not witnessed by our country in decades."
Now, you have studied. You have been a strong supporter of the U.S. military over all of these years in Congress. What are you suggesting, that the U.S. military right now is not capable, for example, of -- of participating in a two different theaters of operation?
MURTHA: That's exactly right, Wolf.
What I'm saying is, all the troops in the United States, almost every brigade in the United States, combat brigade, is not prepared to go to war in another area.
For instance, we use the rhetoric about Iran and the rhetoric about North Korea. And, yet, our units, because they don't have the equipment, because they're taking people are not as qualified as they used to, up to 42 years old, and putting them in the armed forces, they're not as qualified as they should be.
The troops overseas are fine. The ones in Iraq are in good shape. But the ones back here could not respond. We have no strategic reserve. And it's the worst I have seen it since the Vietnam War.
BLITZER: We're out of time, but a quick answer.
Are you suggesting in your report -- because I read it -- that it's time to think about reviving the draft?
MURTHA: I will tell you this. They either have to do that, or they have to start to redeploy the troops, one or the other. We cannot sustain troops being there -- being home only a year, and going back in less than a year.
BLITZER: Congressman John Murtha, as usual, thanks for coming in.
MURTHA: Nice talking to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Up next, we will get a different perspective. We will hear from a top Republican congressman. That would be Congressman Duncan Hunter. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. He's standing by live to join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also coming up in our next hour: some of the Bush administration's most formidable foes gathering together just miles from U.S. shores. We are going to show you what's bringing together the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, all of them and others to Cuba.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Let's get back to our top story: Republicans and Democrats doing battle over the war on terror and Iraq. We just heard from Democratic Congressman John Murtha.
Let's get the reaction now from Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Good to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: John Boehner made a very tough statement. I'm sure you have seen it by now.
He said, "I listen to my Democratic friends, and I wonder if they're more interested in protecting terrorists than in protecting the American people."
You have known Congressman Murtha for a long time. You have worked together with him from a long time. Is he more interested in protecting terrorists than protecting the American people?
HUNTER: No, no. John Murtha's not interested in that.
But I will tell you what the -- I just finished the markup of the -- that is, a passage of the terrorist court bill, which will allow us to try these terrorists, including the ones that designed this attack on 9/11.
And the Democrats did offer a bill that gave more rights, more defendants' rights, to the alleged terrorists than my bill did. And they made a very passionate argument that we needed to give these additional rights to alleged terrorists.
And they made an argument that the only way we could obtain a conviction, if it was the only evidence available, and that evidence came from an American agent who was undisclosed to the terrorists, that we would have to disclose that agent, and let the terrorist himself, face to face, know the identity of the American agent.
Now, that's giving them enormous rights, and, I would say, to the detriment of American agents and American military personnel.
BLITZER: But you know, Congressman, on the Senate side, there are several important Republicans who say that these suspected terrorists and their lawyers should see the evidence, if the evidence is going to be used, including your counterpart, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, John Warner, and John McCain and Lindsey Graham.
They're good Republicans, and they say the evidence should be made available to the terror suspects as well.
HUNTER: Well, let me tell you, Wolf, I have -- I have heard the arguments from the Democrats who offered that position on this side. And, incidentally, the bill passed 52-8.
But they offered that position. They said there's a risk that, if we don't allow the terrorists to know who our agents are, and don't let them come face to face in this court confrontation, that we -- we may be overturned at the appellate level or by the Supreme Court.
I said, there's a different risk. That risk is death, death of the agent, death of his family, death of American service personnel, death of Americans who otherwise would be insulated from an attempt to strike the United States or our citizenry in other places.
Even if we don't get a conviction, if there is an overturning of a particular conviction because we have constricted the terrorists' rights, and haven't given them a liberal array of rights, at least we can still keep them in jail, because they're still combatants.
The problem with giving up the identities of American agents and American military personnel whose lives are at risk is death.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNTER: And I -- and I would rather take the risk of an appellate overturning of our -- of a decision than to take the second, which is harm to our people.
BLITZER: So, you -- so, on this sensitive issue, you disagree with John Warner?
HUNTER: Well, I haven't seen John Warner's. I have just seen the package that the Democrats had. And the Democrats had a more liberal package of defendants' rights for the terrorists than we had.
BLITZER: All right.
Well, let's get back to what John Boehner said, when he says that Democrats are more interested in protecting terrorists than protecting the American people. Does he owe Democrats an apology?
HUNTER: Well, I think that the context that he put that in was, he must have seen this proposed -- this proposed bill that they just put in front of us in the Armed Services Committee, that did give terrorist defendants greater rights -- I think we would all agree with that -- and protected them in a stronger way and gave them more liberal rights in the courtroom than the bill that we had.
So, I think that Mr. Boehner was referring to the rights that the Democrat bill would give to terrorists in the courtroom. And that's accurate. I mean, that's a fact. And our people and good -- Democrats of good faith feel...
BLITZER: So...
HUNTER: ... that that's necessary to keep America's leadership, in terms of being a moral nation.
BLITZER: So...
HUNTER: I simply think it's not practical.
BLITZER: But, so, am I hearing you right? Correct me if I'm wrong. You agree with Boehner, then?
HUNTER: Well, no. I agree with his reference to this bill that they just offered, which was offered on the basis that it gives increased rights to the terrorist defendants, because, according to the Democrats who argued it in good faith -- and I have got good friends who made this argument -- they said, we need to give them greater rights, because that will allow us to make sure that we don't get the cases overturned at the Supreme Court, and we will be an example to the world.
My answer back was, the downside is, you endanger American agents if you turn over that classified information.
BLITZER: We're almost out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: But I want your quick reaction to a dramatic picture we all saw yesterday, the prime minister, the democratically elected prime minister of Iraq, Nouri al-Maliki, going to Tehran, meeting with the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
They had a big, warm embrace, a big hug and a kiss. Is this why the U.S. went to war in Iraq, so that this Shiite alliance, as some critics are calling it, could emerge?
HUNTER: No.
I will tell you what I liked in recent months, Wolf, that showed the difference in the Iraq position. And that's when Iran, when that same Ahmadinejad was sending more missiles to the Hezbollah in Lebanon, and he had that plane getting ready to go over Iraq airspace, and the Iraq leadership said: You can't fly missiles over our airspace that's going to be used in this war against Israel.
They then went to Turkey. Turkey said: You can fly over, but you got to stop first and show them to us.
And, so, they didn't fly the missiles over, and they didn't explode in Tel Aviv. That was an example of a government, the Iraq government, refusing to do what Iran asked them to do. So, I haven't seen the pictures of the hugs and kisses, but that, what I have just told you, is a concrete example of an Iraq that didn't do Iran's bidding.
BLITZER: Duncan Hunter is the chairman of the Armed Services Committee.
Mr. Chairman, always good to have you on the program.
HUNTER: Well, thank you, Wolf.
And coming up: former President Bill Clinton meeting with some of the country's top bloggers. Our Internet reporter is standing by to show you "The Situation Online."
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BLITZER: Welcome back.
Bill Clinton has hosted summits with some of the most influential leaders in the world. So, why is the former president now taking time out of his busy schedule to sit down with a group of bloggers?
Let's bring in Abbi Tatton. She has got details -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, you will recognize the former president there in the middle, but perhaps not those around him.
These are some of the people behind some of the most widely read liberal blogs out there, invited yesterday to former President Bill Clinton's offices for a blogger luncheon. President -- former President Bill Clinton's office says that this is something that Clinton has wanted to do for some time.
He does read blogs, though perhaps not every day, and considers them an important part of political dialogue.
The sit Daily Kos has a rundown of some of the topics that were covered yesterday, including Iraq and homeland security and blogging. They note that Clinton was impressed by the work of some of the bloggers in the last couple of weeks digging into the ABC docudrama, "The Path to 9/11," and its depiction of Clinton administration officials.
Also spotted at this meeting yesterday was Peter Daou. He is a blogger with another role, that of blog adviser to Senator Hillary Clinton. Former President Clinton's office said that he did some outreach for the event, but wasn't there in an official capacity for the senator -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Abbi, for that.
Up next: a primary victory for Muslim-Americans and a potential first for the United States Congress. We will explain. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: In Minnesota right now, Democrat Keith Ellison is a step closer to becoming the first Muslim-American elected to Congress.
Ellison won his party's nomination yesterday for the House seat left open by Congressman Martin Sabo. Ellison is considered a shoo-in to win this November, his Minneapolis-area district long dominated by Democrats. I will talk with Keith Ellison about his campaign, some of the controversy he's been fending off. That's coming up live in our next hour. Keith Ellison will join us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
After weeks of procedural snafus and Senate secrecy, a bill creating a Google-like search engine of government spending looks primed to pass a House vote today. Activists online were vital in pushing this transparency bill forward.
Abbi Tatton is joining us more -- once again with more on this story -- Abbi.
TATTON: Wolf, with an army of bloggers sniffing around this bill, it was becoming very hard not to get behind this legislation.
After Senate holds were placed on it last month, bloggers left and right urged their readers to track down who the culprit was. A hold by Republican Senator Ted Stevens was then revealed, as was one by Democrat Robert Byrd -- both of those holds subsequently lifted. And when that bill passed the Senate unanimously last week, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist blogged at his site, "This is a triumph for transparency and for the blogosphere."
The bill is now moving quickly. The House version is expected to pass later today. The Office of Management and Budget is then tasked with setting up this Web site that the bill's co-sponsors hope will be as easy to use as Google to track government spending. The Web site should be up and running by 2008 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Abbi.
Still to come: Two days after the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks, Congress is debating a resolution honoring the victims. Jack Cafferty wants to know if that should be a priority right now -- Jack and your e-mail right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check back with Jack with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf.
Should it be a priority for the House to pass a bill commemorating 9/11 today? You know, it happened like five years ago. Joe in Houston writes: "The Congress has made a habit of focusing on non-issues. We have a health care crisis. Our troops are under- supplied, undermanned. The minimum wage has not been raised in years. Yet, they worry about gay marriage, exposed breasts on TV, and flag burning. Why should today be any different?"
Todd writes from Illinois: "Jack, once again, Congress has chosen another day to pose and posture through their party-line rhetoric, instead of actually getting anything done for this country. Your call to oust all the incumbents is great."
M. writes: "The House should adopt a resolution honoring the 9/11 victims. They also should adopt a resolution condemning CNN and your fellow traitors in the news media for aiding and abetting your buddies, Osama bin Laden's crowd. You're unworthy to call yourselves Americans."
Richard in Florida: "As the brother of one who was lost on September 21" -- or September 11, rather -- "on the 104th floor of the north tower, I would say this about Congress: once more, too little, too late. We don't need a national day of mourning. We need a national day of dedication to ending terrorism. People ask, do you feel any safer today? I don't want to feel safer. I want to be safer. We need action, not words."
Terry in North Carolina: "No, Jack. They should do something about the blood and treasure still spilling from the bungled Bush- Cheney response to 9/11. Firing Rumsfeld would be a good morning's work, leaving the afternoon free to impeach a few liars and war criminals."
And Pam in Illinois writes this: "Hey, Jack, any idea how much longer we have to be the 'stupid' country?" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, are we getting a lot of e-mail on this subject when you -- when you raise it?
CAFFERTY: Yes. Yes. People are sick and tired of the Congress. They hate the people in Washington, D.C. This Congress has done nothing, nothing, for the average middle-class taxpayer, except rob him blind, since they had the -- since they have had the power to do so.
It's a joke, what they do. And people can't stand them. They ought to understand that. They are hated people down there, your neighbors there on Capitol Hill.
BLITZER: Jack Cafferty, with "The Cafferty File," thank you.
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