Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Revolt in Republican Party Over Detainees; Summit of Non- Aligned States in Cuba; Representative Ney May Face Charges in Abramoff Scandal

Aired September 15, 2006 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Susan.
To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.

Happening now, the president draws a line in the sand on the treatment of terror suspects. It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington where Mr. Bush is responding to an act of Republican defiance. We'll have details on his news conference and where the fight over security goes from here.

In the battle for Congress are feuding Republicans shooting themselves in the foot, giving Democrats a helping hand? We'll consider the possible fallout on election day.

And a driving force on the campaign trail. Will a new break in gas prices give Republicans a needed break this Fall? I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

President Bush is pressing rebel Republicans to approve his plan on interrogating terror suspects and he's warning that time is running out before the enemy strikes again. The terror legislation and a revolt within his own party were the main topics of his Rose Garden news conference earlier today, the day after a Senate panel defied Mr. Bush. Republican leaders in the Senate say they'll call for a vote on this divisive issue as early as next week.

Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash is standing by. So is our chief national correspondent John King. Let's go to the White House first. Elaine Quijano with all the latest, Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, in the face of that strong opposition from some fellow Republicans, President Bush is showing no signs of backing down. He insists that CIA interrogators will not be able to do their jobs and extract vital intelligence from terror suspects unless Congress moves quickly to pass his proposed detainee legislation.

Now, the president vigorously outlined his argument today in the Rose Garden. He said the problem lies specifically with common article III of the Geneva Convention, dealing with detainee treatment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Common Article III says that, you know, there will be no outrages upon human dignity. That's like, it's very vague. What does that mean? Outrages upon human dignity? That's a statement that is wide open to interpretation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, the president maintains that unless Common Article III is clarified by his proposed legislation, that American interrogators could be subject to prosecution for war crimes. He says just that possibility would effectively force the CIA to shut down that once secret CIA program that the president revealed and acknowledged last week.

But Mr. Bush is facing some staunch opposition from some powerful Republican senators, John Warner, John McCain and Lindsey Graham. All of them, of course, strong military ties, including, of course, Senator McCain, a former P.O.W. They say that the president's legislation would allow other countries to apply their own interpretations of Common Article III, putting U.S. personnel at risk if they were captured. Yet, President Bush is not swayed by that argument.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: You can give a hypothetical about North Korea or any other country. The point is that the program is not going to go forward if our professionals do not have clarity in the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now the immediate window for Congress to act is closing fast. There are only two weeks left until members of Congress head home to campaign full-time and, of course, less than two months from now, the all-important Congressional midterm elections. The president is in a politically awkward position, Wolf, having to fight not Democrats on this issue, but fellow Republicans.

Nevertheless a senior official here saying that the president remains hopeful that there can be some kind of agreement. The official says that part of what is driving this current political debate is that the president very much wants to institutionalize what he see as necessary terror fighting tools for future presidents and future administrations, Wolf.

BLITZER: Elaine, thanks you very much. Let's go to Capitol Hill right now. The feud over the detainee interrogation heading to the Senate floor. Now that it did pass the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday. Let's bring in our congressional correspondent Dana Bash. Dana, what is latest there, the reaction to the president?

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well the bottom line, Wolf, is that the president's Republican opponents here are as dug-in as he is back at the White House. Senator John McCain, whom we heard the president mention several times in his press conference, released a lengthy statement and CNN just got it, where it starts making clear that he has respect for the president's unwavering determination to protect America from a terrorist attack, but then it quickly goes on to try to dispute some of the major points that President Bush is making today.

First what Elaine was just talking about, the thrust of the president's argument that if his legislation is not passed that they're going to have to shut down the programs that try to get information from detainees to prevent future terror attacks. Here is what John McCain says about that.

He says "there is nothing in our bill that would require the closure of the CIA's detainee program. Our legislation protects them from unfair exposure to criminal and civil liability. And it maintains intact international obligations that protect their rights."

So, basically John McCain is saying is that he fundamentally disagrees with the president's interpretation and with his top intelligence officers' interpretation of what would happen if the Senate bill passed and not the president's legislation. Now, on to another point the president was making, which is that he very much wants to narrow or clarify the definition that is in Common Article III of the Geneva Conventions that we've been talking about for the past couple of days.

Senator McCain very much opposes altering the Geneva Conventions at all and he made that point clear again in this statement, just released. He said, "I oppose unilaterally reinterpreting in law Geneva Common Article III. Weakening the Geneva protections is not only unnecessary, but would set an example to other countries, with less respect for basic human rights, that they could issue their own legislative reinterpretations. that puts our military personnel and others directly at risk in this and future wars."

You heard the president making the argument that he would be OK with other countries changing the interpretation of this particular issue in the Geneva Conventions and John McCain is making clear that you can't trust other countries, from his perspective, to do that, because it could be quite different from the U.S. standard.

So there you have the president's, perhaps, chief foe on this issue, again, as dug in as he is. On the other side of the aisle, Democrats, Wolf, have been pretty much trying to sit back and let John McCain and his colleagues fight it out for them. The senator from New York, Chuck Schumer, who is in charge of getting Democrats elected and reelected this Fall, here is what he had to say. He said "when conservative military men like John McCain, John Warner, Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell stand up to the president, it shows how wrong and isolated the White House is."

So, Democrats are happy to have John McCain fight their political fight for them right now. As for Republicans, who are allies of the president here, and there are a lot of them on Capitol Hill, they have been meeting behind closed doors, trying to figure out the best strategy to echo the arguments that Mr. Bush is making in the Rose Garden today, because, as you noted, this legislation will be on the House floor next Wednesday and possibly on the Senate floor, which is where there will be a big fight as early as next week as well, Wolf.

BLITZER: And there is a huge potential battle that could unfold over very serious allegations, Dana, now being leveled by some Democrats that career military officers, JAG officers, lawyers in the U.S. military, were pressured improperly by the White House to come around on this issue.

BASH: That's right. This is a controversy that erupted yesterday morning and it is over a letter that the White House Republicans released from the JAGs, saying that they are not opposed to the legislation that the administration has put forward and this is, was controversial because officials up here, some sources were saying that they had heard that those JAGs were coerced into doing it, that they were in a meeting with William Hanes (ph), the Office of Legal Council, in the Pentagon and for hours and hours and they were essentially forced to do this.

Well, two Democrats, Senators Kennedy and Durbin wrote a letter to the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Arlen Specter, saying that they want this to be investigated, these kind of questions. And our Andrea Koppel is actually hearing from Republican sources that senator Lindsey Graham, a former JAG, who was very upset about this, might have his own hearings as well next week. We're going to have to wait and see and I should just button this by saying that Jamie McIntyre was told by one of the people who signed that letter that he had to laugh, that's a quote, when he heard these allegations. He said it could not be farther from the truth that there was pressure to sign this letter, Wolf.

BLITZER: Dana, thank you.

A new poll out this week may give new ammunition to critics of the president's policy on terror suspects. In the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" survey, 41 percent say they favor the administration's plan, but most, 51 percent, say they oppose it. Still there is new evidence of a slight uptick in the president's, the public's confidence, that is, in President Bush. The six latest polls put his approval rating right now in the low 40s or high 30s, averaged together he gets a 40 percent approval rating with more than half of the Americans still disapproving of the job he is doing.

President Bush all but acknowledged today that one of his top domestic priorities, comprehensive immigration reform, is essentially dead for now. The House and Senate are stalemated over their very different reform bills, amid disputes within the president's party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We're going to have to treat people with dignity in the country. Ours is a nation of immigrants and it's a, when Congress gets down to a comprehensive bill I would just remind them it's virtually impossible to try to find 11 millions folks who have been here working hard and in some cases raising families and kick them out.

It's not just going to work. But granting automatic citizenship won't work either. To me that would provide an additional incentive for people to sneak in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yesterday the House approved a border fence provision it had passed last year, re-emphasizing its narrower focus on border enforcement in the lead up to congressional elections.

Let's bring in our chief national correspondent John King. John, what does it say about the president of the United States, right now only a few weeks before the midterm election, that you have these Republicans effectively challenging him on such a sensitive issue?

JOHN KING, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if two words, it's not helpful. You have the Republicans debating themselves on what is supposed to be their strongest issue. And many around town are saying today, why was the president so in the face of his Senate critics? Why didn't he come out and compromise?

But what you saw today was actually vintage Bush, if you will. He knows the House is about to act. The is a president who often says, I'm not going to negotiate with the media, I'm not going negotiate with myself. Let's go way back to the tax cut debate of the first term. Senator McCain and others were saying, Mr. President you're asking too much.

So what is the president doing now? He's essentially buying time. He thinks the House will pass a bill consistent with what he wants, then he will try to negotiate with the Senate. So, for today he is pounding his chest saying, stick with me. He is not budging. In the end most expect he will have to compromise.

BLITZER: Now John McCain is clearly out on front on this issue, and he speaks with a lot of moral authority, John McCain, as a military man and a former POW. But what is his stance as far as 2008, and his presidential ambitions suggest to you right now?

KING: Well, certainly, that everyone is watching Senator McCain. For the most part, he's been a very firm defender of the Iraq War, a very firm defender of this president, he has earned the support of a lot of the Bush people around the country, fund raisers, state people who supported the president last time, not him, way back in 2000.

But of course he will criticized by some Republicans for being in the publicly in the president's face like this. Senator McCain says this is a matter of principle. And Wolf, the president is in a tough spot. You saw that NBC-"Wall Street Journal" poll.

This will help the president among Republicans. He was feisty today, he was battling with reporters, he was criticizing the Congress. With the Republican base, talking with Texas twang, they love that. That's what the Republican base loves about this president.

But you are fighting Colin Powell and John McCain, the two Republicans who probably have the most support among independents and Democrats -- conservative Democrats. Heading into the midterm elections, some House members, Senate members need those independent votes. The president is in a tough spot on this issue.

BLITZER: John, I've spoken with several Democrats today and yesterday. They say they can't believe how lucky they are right now that these Republicans, including John Warner, who is not necessarily well-known as a maverick Republican, are coming out so strongly on this issue weeks before the election, giving them the political cover that they clearly want.

KING: But we'll see if this an issue a week from now, a month from now as we get closer and closer to the election. But as part of the big debate, within the Republican party, you showed that polls uphold the president's approval rate.

He has inched back up, he's right around 40 percent, a little over 40 in some, a little below in others. And at the White House, they are spreading these numbers around, telling Republicans, don't run from the president.

To use a baseball metaphor, which is hard for a Red Sox fan, my team is not going to be around this fall, but this is like a guy who's been on the disabled list all summer. And suddenly he's sitting down there on the end of the bench and people are saying, can he play as we head into the playoffs?

And the White House is saying, yes, the president's coming up some. He can play. He is not as unpopular as he was. Most Republicans are saying, great, we're glad you're not at 35, but we don't think you're an asset.

So there's a big debate in the Republicans about, should the president be out there talking every day, or should he just quiet down and let them fight this race by race. And this debate over the detainees, where you have a Republican civil war, is playing out just as Republicans try to decide what should the president do in the final seven weeks.

BLITZER: We're going to enjoy watching this and covering this story.

KING: Covering politics is a lot of fun.

BLITZER: It's a lot of fun. It always is. John, thanks very much. John King. Dana Bash, Elaine Quijano, they are part of the best political team on television and so is Jack Cafferty. He has the "Cafferty File" in New York -- Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jack, the average approval rating for Congress, if you average the eight largest national public opinion polls, is somewhere around 23 percent. Pathetic rating. Richly deserved, they are worthless. Unless, of course, you're a big corporation or very rich.

The president's rating isn't a whole lot better as you just heard, 39, 40. But he has managed to do something that no one has done before him. He's turned desert sand into quicksand without adding so much as a single drop of water. Now the midterms are over, all eyes will go to the presidential election in 2008. A recent poll suggested the top four choices among Democrats are Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards and some other loser whose name escapes me at the moment. It's kind of like going to your closet and trying to decide what pair of old shoes to put op.

On the Republican side it's not much better. So let's for a minute think outside the box. John McCain, been there, don that. Rudy Guliani, maybe. But he's a polarizing figure, a lot like Hillary Clinton. So let's for a minute think outside the box. Here is the question.

Would you support a third national political party headed by Colin Powell and Barack Obama? Email your thoughts to CAFFERTYFILE@CNN.com, or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I suspect there would be a lot of people who would support that, but there is no indication that Colin Powell and Barack Obama are interested in forging some sort of third party.

CAFFERTY: Well, they haven't seen our poll results yet.

BLITZER: Well let's see what our viewers think.

CAFFERTY: Now I understand there is no interest in it. I didn't say there was.

BLITZER: All right, Jack. Thanks very much, Jack Cafferty, with the "Cafferty File". He'll be back with your email. And if you want a sneak preview of Jack's questions, plus an early read on the day's political news and what's ahead in the SITUATION ROOM, you can sign up for our daily email alert. Just go to CNN.com/SITUATIONROOM.

Coming up, the update on the bloodshed and the death squads in Iraq. Are U.S. troops losing ground or gaining an upper hand?

Plus, a U.S. Congressman pleads guilty in a corruption scandal that's been hanging over Capitol Hill. We'll tell you why this is significant.

And later, should Republicans bank on lower gas prices in their battle to keep control of Congress? Stay with us. You're in the SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's check in with Zain Verjee for a quick look at some other important stories making news.

Hi Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. A roadside bomb claimed the life of a U.S. soldier in Baghdad today and the Marine died fighting insurgents in Anbar province. U.S. officials haven't released their names, but their deaths bring the U.S. military toll in Iraq to 2680. Meanwhile, a bomb attack at a soccer game in Fallujah yesterday killed eight Iraqis and wounded 13 others. A U.S. commander says overall violence in Baghdad has declined since the new security plan was launched last month.

However, he acknowledged that revenge killings between Sunnis and Shias remains a problem. The bodies of more than a hundred victims of sectarian violence have been found since Tuesday. We're going to bring you a full report from Iraq in the next hour.

Raoul Castro stood in for his ailing brother Fidel at opening ceremonies of this year's meeting of the Nonaligned Movement. Representatives from its 118 member nations are gathered in Havana this week.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez moved to assert his influence with a long speech. He told delegates Venezuela would support Iran if it's invaded as a result of its nuclear dispute with the United Nations.

Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also spoke at the summit. Later, he will head to New York for the opening of the U.N. General Assembly, but while he is there, is will not be meeting with President Bush. At a news conference today, Mr. Bush said U.S. officials will not sit down with Iran until Tehran agrees to suspend all nuclear enrichments.

Muslims around the world are protesting comments from the head of the Roman Catholic Church. In a speech last Tuesday, Pope Benedict XVI quoted from writings of a 14th century emperor who said that the Muslim prophet Mohammed had used violence to spread his religion.

The world's largest Muslim body, the Organization of the Islamic Conference calls the comment, quote, "a smear campaign." And Pakistan's national assembly passed a resolution condemning the pope's remarks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you, Zain, for that. We're going to have more on that story coming up on THE SITUATION ROOM.

Meanwhile, a huge corruption probe on Capitol Hill took a major turn today. Republican Congressman Bob Ney of Ohio pleaded guilty to two criminal charges. He's the first lawmaker to confess to crimes in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal.

Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is following the story online, but first let's go to our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, after months of denying that he did anything wrong, even after his former chief of staff pled guilty and admitted that he had participated in a conspiracy to corrupt Ney, the Congressman finally came clean.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KOPPEL (voice-over): Outside Ohio, Congressman Bob Ney may have been best known for a move to rename french fries in congressional cafeterias, a slap at France for opposing a U.S. invasion of Iraq. But after pleading guilty to corruption, Ney will now be known as a criminal.

ALICE FISHER, ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Congressman Ney admitted today that he corruptly accepted a stream of benefits valued at tens of thousands of dollars in exchange for agreeing to perform and performing a series of public official acts.

KOPPEL: Ney is the first member of Congress to fall in the wide- ranging influencing pedaling probe surrounding convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff. In a plea agreement with the Justice Department, Ney admits he accepted gifts from Abramoff and others, among them a number of overseas trips including one worth $160,000 to Scotland in August 2002 to play golf, free meals at a restaurant owned by Abramoff; tens of thousands in gambling money at casinos, as well as substantial campaign contributions.

In exchange, the six-term Ohio Congressman agreed to help Abramoff and his clients win a multimillion dollar contract for wireless communication in the Capitol, lift a gambling ban for a Native American tribe in Texas, and as well as transfer federal property to a religious school run by Abramoff.

In a written statement, Ney said "I am very sorry for the pain I have caused to my family, my constituents in Ohio, and my colleagues." He also said he had become dependent on alcohol and was seeking professional help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Congressman Ney is facing an expected prison term of 27 months, while two sources who are close to the ongoing corruption probe tells CNN that other members of Congress are also being looked at. But, Wolf, Ney's attorneys are saying that the Congressman is not participating or helping out in anyway in that part of the Department of Justice investigation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: A little bit more than two years potentially in jail. Thanks very much for that, Andrea. Congressman Bob Ney's plea agreement comes as no surprise to many online.

Let's bring in our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton -- Abbi.

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, those court documents today detailing the money that was flying around, the lavish trip to Scotland -- Congressman Ney there at the end and Jack Abramoff at the other end of that picture. Also, a meeting with a foreign businessman. We don't know any more than that, except details coming out that $5,000 worth of British pounds Ney gave to a staffer to carry through customs so he wouldn't have to declare it.

Congressman Ney has, for months, denied any wrongdoing but the documents online show that this wasn't much of a surprise. Convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff and partner Michael Scanlon admitted to supplying gifts to a member of Congress known as only representative number 1 until now in court documents.

Also, this summer, a Senate Indian Affairs Committee report came out with hundreds and hundreds of e-mails, this one from Abramoff to Mike Scanlon saying "Just met with Ney." All of this has been closely followed online. This is a Web site from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee which looking at corruption. This one is updated today with a guilty stamp -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Abbi, thanks very much. Abbi Tatton reporting.

Still ahead, the commander in chief takes on rebel Republicans. Who will win the war over terror tactics? We're going to take a closer look at the fight, the fallout in our "Strategy Session."

And later, a leading Democrat responds to the president on the interrogation of detainees and more. That would be senator Joe Biden. He joins us in THE SITUATION ROOM in the next hour. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

In our "Strategy Session" today, President Bush standing firm against fellow Republicans defying him on the treatment of terror suspects.

Joining us now are CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, and Terry Jeffrey, the editor of Human Events online.

Let's run a little clip, Donna, from what the president said on this very sensitive subject.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When Congress gets down to a comprehensive bill, I would just remind them it's virtually impossible to try to find 11 million folks who have been here working hard and, in some cases, raising families and kick them out. It's just not going to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Well, that is what he said on immigration. That was the wrong clip. I wanted the clip on what he said on the terror detainees. We will get to immigration a little bit later. The whole notion of the president being as impassioned and as strong, if you will, in going out today and defying these Republican challengers -- forget about the Democrats -- is a significant development.

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, the Supreme Court repudiated the president's standard that he was applying to detainees in the Hamdan decision. What John McCain and many others are trying to do is find a middle ground.

I think the McCain approach is a good, acceptable approach because it allows the military commissions to go forth and to try these detainees, using existing international and domestic law. I think it's a great approach. They draw the line on -- on clarifying or changing the Geneva Convention. And I think that's the best standard that we -- and the president should accept it.

BLITZER: This is a formidable alliance that has been forged against the president.

TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": Well, I think it's an unfortunate alliance.

I think the president is 100 percent right. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, John Warner, Susan Collins, they're wrong.

Wolf, I'm glad that Donna brought up the Supreme Court. What -- what John McCain is really doing here is, he's standing on the shoulders of a five-member liberal majority of the Supreme Court that, in June, falsely said the Geneva Conventions apply to al Qaeda terrorists.

BLITZER: But it said it. It said it. So, you can't ignore the Supreme Court.

JEFFREY: Right. No, no, but what -- he said it. And now, standing on their shoulders, he is pushing it to the farthest extreme.

If you look at the face of the Geneva Conventions, it has -- only two people does it apply to, actual parties who are signatories, and people who go to war against the signatory, who agree -- who accept and apply the provisions. Clearly, that doesn't apply to al Qaeda.

John McCain ought to be -- get -- remonstrating with the liberals on the Supreme Court.

But, secondly, the president is pointing out the vagueness of the language of Common Article 3, the specific provision the Supreme Court said must apply. He talked about outrages upon personal dignity. The same segment says, all the judicial guarantees you must extend to the person being held as a prisoner, all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable to civilized people.

Well, how do we decide in this country what those are? We decide by a process, a democratic process, between our president and our Congress. And I think the conservatives on the House Armed Services Committee who had approved the president's plan have it right. Their principles are the principles of a civilized people. And John McCain has it wrong.

BRAZILE: You know, the -- the Senate bill continues to give the president broad powers, as it relates to detaining people, without even letting us know how long these people will be detained, and what they are charged with. The Senate bill draws two lines. And I think the distinction that they draw on -- on the Common Article 3, on torture, and redefining something that's been in existence since 1949, that is -- that is -- the administration should accept this, this -- this compromise, go forward, and campaign on something else this fall.

BLITZER: Very quickly, because I want to get to immigration, is there going to be a -- a compromise -- the next two weeks, basically, that is all the time they have left -- between the McCain forces and the president?

JEFFREY: I don't think so. I think there's two fundamental -- I think there's going to be victory on the part of the president, not a compromise with John McCain.

There's two things the president can't compromise on. He cannot say that we're going to take classified information that we got from confidential sources in the Islamic world and are using to prosecute al Qaeda terrorists, and hand that information over to the terrorists, Wolf. We can't do that.

Secondly, we cannot put the CIA and other intelligence officials in a position where they don't know what the statutory rules are that govern their interrogation of terrorists.

BLITZER: Will there be a deal?

BRAZILE: Well -- well, let's just say this. The Republicans, right now, the bipartisan coalition that's forming, they have the votes to not only stop any amendments on the floor, but to pass this bill next week.

JEFFREY: And that will be a victory for al Qaeda...

BRAZILE: No, that will be a victory...

JEFFREY: ... not for the United States.

BRAZILE: ... for the rule of law.

BLITZER: One thing...

BRAZILE: And that will be a -- a victory for international law.

BLITZER: I think it's fair we can -- we can conclude there will be no immigration reform legislation.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Is that right?

JEFFREY: Well, there is one thing that could happen, Wolf.

The House of Representatives passed this week, by a significant bipartisan majority, funding for -- excuse me -- authorization for 700 miles of fence. It's possible you may get the House and Senate to agree to some new fencing that they authorized and paid for before the elections. It will give Republicans a chance to go out in November and say, look, we did something concrete to secure the border.

BLITZER: You think that will happen?

BRAZILE: I don't think they have the votes in the Senate.

And, again, the Republicans are desperate. After two years of -- of basically nothing to run on, they are trying to find some issues that will resonate with the American people.

BLITZER: Here is what Nancy Pelosi said on Congressman Bob Ney's decision to plead guilty, go into rehab for alcoholism.

"The guilty plea by Congressman Bob Ney confirms what we have long said. The Republican culture of corruption has pervaded Congress. This is a tragedy for his family, his constituents, and for the United States Congress. But it is long past time for those who have benefited from the Republicans' culture of corruption to be held accountable."

Question: Will this have an impact, given the -- the November elections?

JEFFREY: I think it's going to have a big impact in Ohio, unfortunately. But I would point out that Nancy Pelosi is the House minority leader, who -- who backed the idea that the FBI ought not to be able to go into the office of William Jefferson and check for evidence there of corruption.

So, if there is a culture on corruption on Capitol Hill, Nancy Pelosi is part of it, when she says the FBI can't investigate...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: He is the Democrat -- he is the Democratic congressman from the Louisiana.

BRAZILE: Oh, absolutely. I know him.

But, also, Speaker Hastert and many others backed that proposal that you mentioned.

Look, there is -- there's a problem here in Washington, D.C. And I think that this issue will not only resonate in Ohio, but it will resonate across the country, because, as you can tell from the polls, the voters out there are disenchanted. And they want a clean house, a transparent Congress, and a -- and a fair and honest government.

BLITZER: It just sort of turns voters against both -- everyone in Washington, when they hear about these kinds of things.

BRAZILE: Well, right now, the majority is -- is held by the Republicans. So, if they -- if they're turned off by what is going on in Washington, D.C., that means they will turn out the incumbents this fall. BLITZER: Is she right on that?

JEFFREY: There's no question about it. If there is going to be an anti-incumbent trend, which there may be, it's going to hurt the Republicans more than the Democrats.

BLITZER: Terry Jeffrey, as usual, thanks very much.

Donna, thanks to you as well.

BRAZILE: Thank you again.

BLITZER: And up next: If congressional elections were held today, which party would win? There are new poll numbers on our "Political Radar." And can Democrats count on one of their wealthiest donors to come through for them this fall? I will ask the billionaire George Soros how much he is willing to give this time to beat the Republicans.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: On our "Political Radar" this Friday: new snapshots of the battle of Congress. Two new polls show Democrats losing a little ground since August, but still holding a double-digit advantage over Republicans.

One poll shows 47 percent of registered voters would choose a Democrat for Congress if the election were held today. Thirty-five percent would vote Republican. That's the AP/Ipsos poll.

And, in a new Pew poll, 50 percent of registered say they would choose a Democrat for Congress. Thirty-nine percent say they would choose a Republican.

The billionaire George Soros has one of the deepest pockets of any Democratic donor. But the party isn't getting as much out of him this election year. So far, Soros reportedly has forked over some $2 million. He gave away $27 million to so-called 527 groups formed to elect Democrats largely in the last election.

I spoke to Soros, and asked him how much is he willing to give now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Here is the bottom-line question. Are you going to give another $25 million, $30 million, or more, next time around, either in this midterm election contest or looking toward 2008 to try to beat the Republicans?

GEORGE SOROS, FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN, OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE: I -- I think it's very important that there should be a better balance. And I think it would be very healthy for our democracy if the -- if the House, at least, was in Democratic hands. But I'm much more interested in policy than I am in politics.

BLITZER: So, what -- what are we talking about? How much money are you -- are you looking forward to making available?

SOROS: Nothing like I did in '04, because that was an exceptional situation.

I felt that, if we could possibly remove President Bush from the White House, we would spare ourselves the -- the -- the terrible things that have happened since, the deterioration in our -- in our power and influence in the world, and the increased instability in the world.

BLITZER: So, you're going to be a little bit less generous this time?

SOROS: Well, much more so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And the full interview with George Soros airs Sunday on CNN's "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk. We start our program at 11:00 a.m. Eastern. It goes on for two hours, until 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

And you can hear more of this interview in our next hour. I will ask Soros about his explosive comparisons of President Bush to the Nazis. That's coming up in the next hour and Sunday on "LATE EDITION."

Coming up next: The pain is easing at the pumps. Will that translate into votes on Election Day? Bill Schneider has a new take on the politics of gas prices.

And he pulled out a primary win, but did Senator Lincoln Chafee score more than a moderate success?

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

As of today, a form of smog-reducing gasoline mandated for use in the summer months will be pulled from the pumps, as we head into the fall and the November elections.

Let's bring in our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider. He is following the politics at the pump -- Bill.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, they say what goes up must come down. But whoever thought would happen with gas prices?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SCHNEIDER (voice-over): On September 15, gasoline suppliers switch from the summer mix to the lower-cost winter mix. But it may not make much difference, because gasoline prices have already fallen at least 36 cents a gallon, or 12 percent, since they reached a peak in July.

That's good news for Republicans, if only because it could reduce voter anxiety.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have always felt the economy is -- is a determinant issue, or -- if not the determinant issue in campaigns. We have had a little history of that in our family. And...

SCHNEIDER: You can see voter concern dropping in the polls. In July, 41 percent of voters said gas prices and energy costs were the most important economic issue facing the country. That number has dropped to 26 percent.

What is driving gas prices down? Industry sources cite a lot of reasons, including higher fuel inventories, a so far mild hurricane season, the truce between Israel and Lebanon.

But this oil industry critic believes that what drove prices up was speculation. And a report from a bipartisan congressional investigation may be having an impact.

TYSON SLOCUM, ENERGY DIRECTOR, PUBLIC CITIZEN: I think that that sent a signal to these speculators that they had better pull back a little bit. And I think that is what we're seeing.

SCHNEIDER: The drop in prices may last just a couple of months, long enough to get through the November election. Could that be what the oil companies want?

SLOCUM: Eighty-one percent of their money goes to members of the Republican Party. I cannot say for sure whether or not they are influencing prices to assure that outcome. But it is, I think, more than just a coincidence that we're seeing an easing of prices at a time of running up to a very, very important election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Consumer feelings about current economic conditions are up sharply. According to the RBC Cash Index, consumer confidence has risen to a seven-month high, along with lower gasoline prices -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, good report, Bill.

A quick question -- it's Friday. Who gets the "Political Play of the Week"?

SCHNEIDER: Well, Senator Lincoln Chafee survived the Rhode Island Republican primary. Chafee was supported by the national Republican Party, which saw him as their only chance to hold on to that seat. But he also benefited from a lot of crossover votes from independents, who wanted to reward him for his anti-war and anti-Bush positions.

So, who saved Chafe? Now, I suspect it was more anti-Bush than pro-Bush voters. Some 15,000 Democrats re-registered as independents, so they could vote in either primary. But will independents who voted for Chafee stick with him in November? That's not clear.

One danger sign for Chafee: More people voted for Sheldon Whitehouse, who won the Democratic primary, than for Chafee and his Republican component combined. The anti-war Chafee did not go the way of the pro-war Lieberman. There is a message in there somewhere. And there's also a "Play of the Week" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Could you imagine if Whitehouse gets elected, with a last name like that and a United States senator, what people are going to say?

SCHNEIDER: I can imagine what they are going to say.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Bill Schneider, with the "Play of the Week," thank you very much.

And Bill is part of the best political team on television.

Up next: a final tribute to the crocodile hunter, after being killed by a stingray. We are going to show you how Steve Irwin was remembered.

And former Secretary of State Colin Powell butting heads with his former boss -- is President Bush upset or brushing it off? We will go inside that spat in our next hour, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There's another severe weather story developing right now.

Let's check in with Zain once again from the CNN Center -- Zain.

VERJEE: Wolf, this is just coming into CNN.

Tropical Storm Lane has been upgraded to a hurricane. According to the National Hurricane Center, the government of Mexico has issued a warning for the coast of the -- of the Mexican mainland. And a hurricane warning remains in effect for Southern Baja and California.

A fix-it mission on the International Space Station -- two spacewalking astronauts performed a variety of tasks, as they floated around the station today. The walk went smoothly, even though a minor electrical problem delayed it by nearly an hour. Tomorrow, Atlantis will fly around the station to just see how it is holding up. It will the first close-up look NASA engineers have had since 2003. Flight attendants at Northwest Airlines strike out again in federal court. Today, a federal judge affirmed last month's decision to block flight attendants from walking off the job. Northwest filed for bankruptcy last year, and said a strike could force the company to shut down. Last month, Northwest cut the wages of flight attendants by more than 20 percent. The company also cut health insurance benefits.

In 15 minutes, it was all over. All 3,000 free tickets to next Wednesday's memorial service for crocodile hunter Steve Irwin were quickly snapped up today. Hundreds of fans, they camped out overnight at Irwin's Australia Zoo to see the service at the zoo's Crocoseum. Irwin died on September the 4th, when he was impaled on a stingray barb while shooting a TV segment -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you, Zain, for that.

And, if you have always wanted to attend a United States Supreme Court hearing, but can't, there is now new hope. The Internet is about to bring you closer than ever.

Once again, let's bring in our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton -- Abbi.

TATTON: Wolf, beginning October -- in the October 2006 session, transcripts of oral arguments are now going to be available online at the Supreme Court Web site within hours of them taking place.

Until now, you could get these transcripts online, but it took them a couple of weeks for them to get them on the Web site. And, if you wanted them more quickly, it would cost you. The -- a court reporter will now be present in the courtroom, transcribing. And you will be able to get these materials day of. Until now, the only materials that were released day of by the Supreme Court would be audiotapes, and then only very occasionally, in the highest-profile cases -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Abbi, thank you.

And still to come: He has been touted as presidential material some day -- didn't rule it out yesterday when we spoke with him in the THE SITUATION ROOM. But what if Barack Obama fronted a new third party? Jack Cafferty with your e-mail -- right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Take a close look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from our friends at the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.

In Gaza City, a police officer stands next to the bullet-riddled car of a Palestinian officer. Palestinian gunmen killed the official and four other people earlier today in a drive-by shooting.

In Tyre in Lebanon, hundreds of Spanish troops land at a popular tourist beach. They're the latest addition to the U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon.

Ivory Coast in Africa: Youths burn tires to protest toxic waste dumping. A local contractor may have improperly disposed of a fuel byproducts, killing six people, causing thousands to get sick.

And in Tokyo, Japan's nine-day-old prince leaves the hospital in his mother's arms. The bushy-headed prince is third in line to the Japanese throne -- some of today's "Hot Shots," pictures often worth 1,000 words.

Nice pictures, Jack, as always. Jack Cafferty is in New York -- Jack.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, Wolf.

The question this hour is: Would you support a third national political party headed by Colin Powell and Barack Obama? The overwhelming majority of you who responded to this -- and we got a huge response -- said, oh, yes, there's a good idea. Here is some of what you wrote in -- in specifics.

Eli writes from Virginia -- with the exception of this guy -- "Why does it have to Powell and Obama? There are a lot of black, white, red, yellow, and probably some blue candidates out there who would be perfectly willing to take on the status quo. Are you trying to make this a race issue? It certainly looks that way."

Tracy in South Carolina: "Yes. Yes, I would. This country needs a unity party that could heal the growing divide between the American people and Washington, between Republicans and Democrats. Over the last few years, we have been tearing ourselves apart, morally, spiritually, and emotionally."

Paula writes from San Angelo, Texas: "I would definitely support Powell-Obama. Of course, being female, I would prefer Clinton-Obama. Powell was railroaded with that speech before the U.N. Security Council, damaging his image. He would be given an opportunity to redeem himself, if he were president. Besides, he's still a wonderful statesman and diplomat for the United States."

Daniel in Los Angeles: "Third parties never work in America. They split the vote. And, eventually, the Republicans and Democrats modify their positions and absorb the rogues. Ask John Anderson or Ross Perot. Smartest thing Obama and Powell can do, keep embarrassing the current administration in the media by speaking the truth."

Alan writes from Princeton, New Jersey: "I would give money and go out and pound the pavement for a Powell-Obama ticket. And I am an old WASP."

Miguel in North Carolina: "Jack, at this point, I will support a third party headed by Bugs Bunny and Donald Duck. Seriously, if we voted out all of the incumbents in November, could we end up with a worse Congress than the one we have now? Absolutely not."

Coming up this weekend on "IN THE MONEY": hip-hop icon and entrepreneur Russell Simmons on a mission. He's out to teach urban youth about saving and managing their money. Simmons defends his music and his message on "IN THE MONEY," Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00 Eastern time. It's a wonderful little program that goes toward my daughter's tuition at Tulane. Please watch.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: We will, Jack. Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com