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President Bush Taking Aim at Fellow Republicans Who Oppose His Plan For Tougher Treatment of Terror Suspects; Death Squads Roam Streets in Baghdad; Most Countries Participating in Nonaligned Summit in Cuba Have Good Relations With United States; FDA Warns Fresh Bagged Spinach May Contain E. coli; Joseph Biden Interview; George Soros Interview

Aired September 15, 2006 - 16:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.

Happening now, it's 5:00 p.m. in Washington. President Bush fires back at rebel Republicans, including Colin Powell. He warns of setbacks in the war on terrorism unless they back his plan for the handling of detainees.

It's 1:00 a.m. in Baghdad, where U.S. troops are deployed to defend a new front line. Will the war in Iraq be won or lost on the streets of the capital?

And the worlds Muslims voiced outrage after Pope Benedict XVI quotes a medieval text critical of Islam.

It's 11:00 p.m. in the Vatican. Should the pope offer a personal apology?

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

President Bush today is taking aim at fellow Republicans, including former secretary of state Colin Powell, who oppose his plan for tougher treatment of terror suspects. At a White House news conference, the president said terrorists want to strike again at America and warned that "time is running out." He urged Congress to act as long as Congress does it his way.

Let's go to our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, already the White House is seeing dividends being paid off on its aggressive campaign to turn the focus from the Iraq war to the broader war on terror. A slight bump in the polls for the president. But political observers say the White House is certainly engaged in a much riskier strategy now. That is to take on the moderate Republicans over this thorny issue of treating detainees.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice over): President Bush came out swinging, offering an aggressive defense of his plan for tougher interrogations of detainees under U.S. custody, making no apologies for his request to clarify the Geneva Conventions, the international treaty which defines how prisoners of war are to be treated.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are trying to clarify law. We are trying to set high standards, not ambiguous standards.

MALVEAUX: It's all part of the president's recent strategy to get voters to focus on national security, a Republican strength, and off of focusing on the unpopular Iraq war.

With the midterm elections now just seven weeks away, Mr. Bush is trying to push tough antiterrorism measures through Congress, banking on the belief that Americans will back him.

DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: They have calculated if he puts more heat on the Congress he's more likely to get his own way. And secondly, that if they -- that if he's -- that if he's this defiant, this belligerent, it will actually help his own standing with the public, and in turn help Republicans in the -- in the fall campaign.

MALVEAUX: But what the president didn't count on was a revolt from top members of his own party, like possible 2008 presidential candidate John McCain, over just how far he could go in asserting his executive power to spy on, imprison and interrogate terrorism suspects.

Former secretary of state Colin Powell broke his loyal silence, saying altering the Geneva Conventions would throw the moral basis of the U.S.' war on terror in doubt.

BUSH: It's flawed -- flawed logic. It's just -- I simply can't accept that. It's unacceptable to think that there's any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists.

MALVEAUX: Senior administration officials insist the split within the party is just a bump in the world. They say history shows the American people back the tough talk on terror.

So that's what the president doled out in his hour-long press conference, tough talk on the search for Osama bin Laden.

BUSH: We have been on the hunt, and we'll stay on the hunt until we bring him to justice.

MALVEAUX: And on his refusal to sit down with Iran's president, although the two men will be at the U.N. next week.

BUSH: No, I'm not going to meet with him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: So, certainly, the question is whether or not this strategy is ultimately going to work for the White House. But according to one senior GOP strategist I spoke with today, he says every day, even if it's controversial, every day that the president talks about the war on terror and does not focus on the war in Iraq is a good day for the White House -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

Thank you, Suzanne.

While Republicans wrangle over national security, I'll get a senior Democrat's view on the war on terror, the nuclear showdown with Iran. Coming up later this hour, my interview with Senator Joe Biden.

Tied up and showing signs of torture. Dozens more bodies were found today in Baghdad. As death squads roam the streets, heard- pressed U.S. troops are diverted from a hard-hit province to defend the capital. But are U.S. troops already stretched too thin?

CNN's Michael Ware is in Baghdad. But let's begin with our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's that same old question: How many U.S. troops in Iraq are enough? Well, the answer, it turns out, depends on exactly what you want them to do.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice over): Even with another spike in violence in Baghdad causing fresh American casualties, the top commander in Iraq, General George Casey, insists he has enough forces, according to President Bush.

BUSH: I asked General Casey today, "Have you got what you need?" He said, "Yes, I've got what I need."

LT. GEN. PETER CHIARELLI, MULTINATIONAL CORPS, IRAQ: There's not a commander in the world who wouldn't say he could use more forces.

MCINTYRE: But in a video conference with Pentagon reporters, Casey's deputy, Lieutenant General Pete Chiarelli, admitted the 30,000 U.S. troops fighting in Anbar province west of Baghdad are unable to secure the insurgent stronghold. General Chiarelli was acknowledging the gloomy assessment contained in a secret report written by a highly respected Marine intelligence officer, Colonel Pete Devlin (ph).

CHIARELLI: Pete is right on target. I don't believe there is any military strategy alone, any kinetic operations that we can run alone that will create the conditions for victory, which we must have.

QUESTION: What is your reaction to Pete Devlin's (ph) view that another division is needed in Anbar to do the job?

CHIARELLI: That's Pete's opinion. That's Pete's opinion. MCINTYRE: An opinion that will go up the chain of command to Chiarelli and then likely be turned down, because adding another division, roughly 18,000 troops, conflicts with the current strategy of securing Baghdad first. In fact, Chiarelli admitted thousands of forces have been shifted from Anbar to Baghdad, which is now the priority.

CHIARELLI: But again, the main effort is Baghdad. And we must ensure that we wait the main effort. Armies that don't wait the main effort really don't ever have a main effort.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Now, President Bush said today he will continue to leave the war to the generals. But he also posed an interesting question. Can, he said -- can the president trust his commanders to tell him what's really necessary? At least for now President Bush says he believes the answer to that question is yes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And he singled out for praise General Abizaid and General Casey with glowing words.

Thank you very much for that.

Jamie McIntyre.

More now on what may turn out to be a last-ditch battle for Baghdad. Can U.S. troops defeat the death squads?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now, our correspondent in Baghdad, Michael Ware.

Michael, you're familiar with what General Chiarelli told reporters over at the Pentagon; namely, that there's an important reason why troops have been redeployed away from the provinces like Al Anbar, toward Baghdad.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Wolf.

General Chiarelli is saying that the focus is Baghdad. Now, this is -- this is a message that I've been hearing for the last month from the highest levels of U.S. military intelligence, from the military commanders themselves, and from the State Department here.

They are saying that as far as they are concerned, the front line is Baghdad, Baghdad, Baghdad. That right now, the war is going to be won or lost in the capital.

Indeed, they say that for al Qaeda, it's the same priority. That if you asked al Qaeda what their targets were, it would be a similar answer: Baghdad, Baghdad, and then Al Anbar.

However, I think that misconstrues al Qaeda's true intentions. You just need to speak to al Qaeda or read their own information. They make it clear that Baghdad to them is just one theater of many. And their base is Al Anbar.

The real story between the concentration of troops here in Iraq, according to senior State Department and military intelligence officials I've spoken to, is that they need to restore order in the capital so that they can develop a popular base of support for a powerless prime minister. The prime minister here is essentially propped up by the U.S. He does not have his own support base, nor does he have his own militia.

So, if security can be delivered to the people, then it's hoped from the U.S. side that credit can be given to this prime minister, and that that will give him a wedge against the militias which dominate and actually control his government -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Michael, one of the most gruesome, horrifying situations that has developed in Iraq, and specifically this week, the dozens and dozens of bodies that have been picked up. Clearly tortured, mutilated.

What's going on here?

WARE: Look, this is the death squads. This is the sectarian war.

I mean, you've got extremists on both sides. Al Qaeda on the Sunni side, and you've got extremist Shia elements buried within the government. And according to the U.S. ambassador here, backed by Iran, trying to polarize the general community.

Now, they're doing that through the sectarian killings. The problem is that it's almost impossible for the U.S. military to stop. No matter what they are saying about the success, or, as they deem it, the progress of Operation Together, the Battle for Baghdad, the killings continue.

The military tries to minimize this by saying that, well, in the areas we're in it's less. However, there's a fundamental flaw to their plan.

The U.S. troops, in conjunction with Iraqi troops, go into an area, clear it, seize it, hold it. The next phase is they hand it over back to the Iraqi police and the Ministry of the Interior troops. The very people that the American administration alleges are connected to the death squads in the first place -- Wolf.

BLITZER: This -- this notion, though, I can understand the killing, because in every civil war there's a lot of killing. But the mutilation and the torture, what's behind this? Why are Sunnis doing this to Shia, Shia doing it to Sunnis, the whole nature of the torture and mutilation?

WARE: Well, this is something I've been talking to, particularly some Shia militia members I know. I mean, I've been wondering myself, what's in the mind of the man who is doing the torturing? I mean, he must have a room somewhere where he brings in these victims and tortures them, puts drills through their knees, through their arms, into their heads. For what purpose? It's not to extract information. It's purely to send a message.

Now, al Qaeda and other extremist groups are doing the same thing on the other side. It's about provocation.

The aim on both sides -- for example, as the al Qaeda -- former al Qaeda leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, said, let's provoke the Shia. Get them to rise up, which seems to be working. It's only this that will awake the sleeping Sunni giant.

So the extremists on both sides are mutilating victims on the other just to inflame and enrage their own populations -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Michael Ware reporting for us.

Michael, be careful over there. Thanks very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And let's go to New York. Jack Cafferty has "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, before we get to the question this hour, last hour I asked, "What would you think about a third major political party in this country headed up by Colin Powell and Barack Obama?" A huge response. Overwhelmingly positive.

A couple of minutes ago I got this note from Tommy Veeter (ph), who is Senator Barack Obama's press secretary. "What about a Cafferty-Blitzer ticket? I believe it would help bridge the divide between bearded and cranky in America."

(LAUGHTER)

CAFFERTY: The Muslim -- the Muslim world...

BLITZER: Good point. He makes a good point.

CAFFERTY: Yes. Well, he does.

BLITZER: I'm not interested, though.

CAFFERTY: Neither am I.

The Muslim world is not very happy with the pope right now. In a speech on Tuesday, Pope Benedict quoted a 14th century Byzantine emperor who said that everything the Prophet Mohammed brought was "evil and inhume, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Benedict also used the words "jihad" and "holy war' in his speech.

Needless to say, Muslim groups and governments around the globe not very happy. They are demanding that the pope apologize. You'll recall how steamed they got when somebody drew a picture of Mohammed in the Danish newspaper. I mean, they absolutely flipped out over that.

Criticism of the pope is pouring in now from all over. From Turkey, from Pakistan, form Iraq, from the Palestinian territories, you name it.

So, here's the question: Do you think the pope ought to apologize for comments he made about Islam?

Send your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you, Jack, for that.

Jack Cafferty reporting for us.

Up ahead, anti-U.S. tirades from anti-U.S. leaders gathered at a summit in Cuba. Bubbling to the surface right now, a string of invective aimed at the United States. We're going to tell you who is saying what right now.

And once alive, now at odds. President Bush and Colin Powell, do they have a rift that's widening as the former secretary of state criticizes the president's proposals for the treatment of terror detainees?

And if you have fresh bagged spinach in your house, here's what you got to do right now, throw it out. Health officials say it could make you sick. Maybe even kill you.

We'll tell you what's going on.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Right now in Cuba anti-U.S.-leaders launch anti-U.S. tirades. In the last hour alone, we've seen the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, and the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, take the stage. Just two of the many leaders of developing nations attending this summit.

Let's go to Havana. CNN National Correspondent Gary Tuchman is on the scene -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, 118 nations are participating in this summit. Most of the countries have good relations with the West and the United States. But the ones that don't have figuratively been the loudest, and perhaps literally, too. And as of now, no sign of Fidel Castro.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice over): Heads of state from nonaligned nations pose for their class picture 90 miles from U.S. shores in Havana, Cuba. And the anti-American tone of this gathering can be summed up in this one shot.

On the top right, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gets his back rubbed. In the middle of the screen, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez does a little hugging and back-rubbing of his own. And waiting on the left for a little of the action, the leader of the leader of Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe.

Three leaders who are preoccupying the U.S. government all together, officially hosted by Fidel Castro. But because he's still too sick to appear in public, his brother welcomed the guests and defended people like Ahmadinejad.

RAUL CASTRO, ACTING CUBAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Let us denounce the hypocrisy of the U.S. government, who while supporting Israel's bid to increase their nuclear store is threatening Iran in an attempt to prevent the peaceful use of nuclear energy.

TUCHMAN: And Ahmadinejad responded in Kind.

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Cuba's fight for liberation and against imperialism is inspiring to many people. At the resistance of the leadership of five decades has always had the support of the nonaligned movement.

TUCHMAN: Venezuela's Chavez, who has now visited the ill Fidel Castro three times, has been unmatched at this summit in antagonism towards the U.S.

HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): American imperialism continues to prepare plans to arm conspiracies against the governments of Cuba and Venezuela. And I have the feeling against otherwise.

TUCHMAN: The secretary-general of the United Nations visited the summit, too. Kofi Annan's prepared speech steered clear of controversy. But as far as we know, he did become the first international diplomat to visit the ailing Castro. And amid thundering applause, declared Castro was doing well and had...

KOFI ANNAN, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: ... a firm handshake and an active and ever-curious mind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Now, the Cuban foreign minister says he cannot rule out Fidel Castro showing up. The final session and the good-bye speeches are tomorrow night. But as of now, all the pictures and video we've seen of Fidel Castro, he's been in his pajamas. We haven't seen anything further than that, so we just don't know if he's going to show up here.

Chavez, for his part, continues to come out with zingers during the summit. One of the zingers he came out with this week was saying that if the U.S. attacked Iran, Venezuela would defend Iran just like it would defend Cuba. What exactly that means, Chavez did not explicitly say.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Our man in Havana, Gary Tuchman.

Thanks very much for that.

And coming up, don't cook it and definitely don't eat it. That would be fresh bagged spinach. If you have some, health officials say you should get rid of it. They say it's causing an E. coli breakout -- outbreak that's already killed one person.

Also, words and rage. Why are many Muslims mad over comments made by the pope? We are going to tell you what he said and why it's sparking such outrage.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Who would have thought. It's killed before and could kill again. That would be fresh spinach in a bag, perhaps in your grocery store or in your refrigerator right now. Just this afternoon another state added to the list of an E. coli breakout.

Let's get more on this spinach scare from our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta -- Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf, it's been so interesting to follow this over the last 24 hours. The FDA releasing an advisory.

One of the most comprehensive advisories yesterday, last night, saying all fresh bagged spinach everywhere in the country should be thrown out. That's one of the largest advisories, comprehensive ones they have released. They're concerned specifically about a very virulent pathogenic deadly form of E. coli.

Now, E. Coli is a bacteria, Wolf, that typically resides in your intestines. It can be very harmless in your intestines, but there are some particular strains which, as we learned, can be deadly.

The numbers keep increasing. You know, it was interesting following the story along. There were just about 50 cases this morning. There are 77 cases now. Three more states have been added, Wolf.

And what's sort of interesting to me is you can still buy spinach in many stores. We were able to buy this spinach in a couple of stores just today. So it's still available on many store shelves.

We talked to the FDA. They say they are not sure exactly where the spinach got contaminated, they're not sure how many more cases there's going to be. And they are not exactly sure when this is all going to come to a close. But for now, they are saying take your spinach. Don't bother cooking it, don't bother washing it, just take it and throw it away.

BLITZER: Is there something, Sanjay, unique to spinach that can cause this E. coli, not, you know, lettuce or some other similar vegetable?

GUPTA: Well, it's interesting, because people typically think of beef. They think of E. coli, the bacteria, being something that resides in beef. And it can. But it can also reside in soil, where some vegetables are grown.

A lot of times what happens, Wolf, it actually gets into the water supply. So when vegetables -- in this case, spinach -- are being cooked -- I'm sorry, being cleaned, it actually is being contaminated at the same time by the contaminated water.

What happens and I found very interesting, Wolf, is because it's been packaged into an air-tight bag, the bacteria is never really exposed to air. Sometimes it can multiply in that bag, actually amplifying the problem.

BLITZER: Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we have an important programming note for our viewers. Please tune in Sunday night, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, for Sanjay's special report. It's called "Genius: Quest for Extreme Brain Power."

You are going to want to see this. Sunday night, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

And coming up, the war over terror. We are going to take a closer look at the feud between President Bush and former secretary of state, Colin Powell. And we'll hear where Democrats stand on the issue of tougher treatment for terror detainees.

I'll speak with Senator Joe Biden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we noted, President Bush is firing back at rebel Republicans today. This GOP feud over the war on terrorism may cost plenty of political fallout, but right now there's a major fallout out between President Bush and former secretary of state Colin Powell.

Let's bring in CNN's Brian Todd. He's got a closer look -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, some observers, including one I spoke to who is close to Colin Powell, believe this had been smoldering for a long time. The debate over detainee treatment brought it out in the open, and it's one reason we saw today why one analyst characterized as a tightly coiled, angry president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD (voice over): May Washington insiders have no doubt that behind the scenes President Bush and his aides are frustrated with their former secretary of state. And they have no doubt the feeling is mutual.

The president reacting to Colin Powell's letter to John McCain which said, "The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism"...

BUSH: If there's any comparison between the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists, it's flawed -- flawed logic.

TODD: Mr. Bush never mentions Powell by name. Our calls and e- mails to Powell's office were not returned. But Powell's alliance with McCain in McCain's debate with the president over how to treat suspected terrorists in U.S. custody has, according to insiders, brought out some festering resentments from Powell from all the internal fights he had during his time as secretary with Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld over Iraq.

In the words of one GOP source, ever since they made Powell walk the plank at the U.N. during the prewar weapons debate, the relationship has never been the same. But analysts say Bush's inner circle has its own reasons for being upset with Powell.

TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS: Back if you look at the 2000 campaign I think that Colin Powell and President Bush are very much on the same page when it came to foreign policy. That was a different world, it was before September 11th. I think after September 11th they sort of diverged in their thinking.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Despite that rift analysts say this could blow over relatively quickly. The Bush administration they say will likely not want to engage Colin Powell in the run-up to the election for fear of alienating African American voters -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Brian Todd reporting. And while Republicans criticize one another over how to handle terror suspects, where do democrats stand on this issue?

And joining us now is the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Joe Biden of Delaware. Senator thanks very much for coming in.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Hey Wolf, always a pleasure to be with you.

BLITZER: The president basically makes the point that if he doesn't get his way and you in the Congress don't pass the legislation he's asking you for, the CIA is not going to be able to interrogate these terror detainees, these terror suspects and in the end the American people are going to be in danger. BIDEN: There is no substantiative evidence for that. Here you have John McCain, prisoner of war. Here you have the senator from South Carolina Lindsay Graham, a prosecutor in the United States military, in the JAG corps. And here you have the chairman of the committee, World War II veteran, former Secretary of the Navy, all saying that's not so. Plus, you have the spokesperson for the United States military prosecutors, the JAG officers, saying that there is no evidence that the methods that they are talking about produce the results they suggest.

BLITZER: Well let me interrupt you on that point. The president keeps saying that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, one of the masterminds of 9/11, he gave up vital information as a result of the very tough methods the CIA used in those secret prisons around the world, that without that information there could have been another 9/11 in the United States.

BIDEN: Well, all I heard paraphrased the comments by the spokesperson for the military lawyers. And I believe I heard them say there is no evidence that those methods have produced the results. Look, there are those extraordinary circumstances where, god forbid we have someone and our CIA guy knows he's got an Atom Bomb somewhere and he uses extraordinary methods.

You don't make International Laws to accommodate that extraordinary circumstance. You have our domestic law exonerate that person for that action, if in fact it's been demonstrated that it is so far above and beyond what the comparative damage would have been to the country that he had to take that action.

BLITZER: The president says that these guys, civilian interrogators, are not using torture but they are very forceful, they're very tough. And he says the point is that the program is not going to go forward if our professionals do not have clarity in law. That's why he's seeking this legislation.

BIDEN: I have worked with these professionals for 33 years, ten years on the intelligence committee. They are just that. They are professionals. They will do everything that needs to be done within the law to protect the people of the United States of America. And in extraordinary circumstances they'll figuratively throw their body in front of the train.

BLITZER: How worried are you, senator, because there is a coalition now of Democrats and several important Republicans, including the ones you mention, led by senator John Warner, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee and John McCain, among others, and Colin Powell, now the former Secretary of State on the outside, but how worried are you, going into this midterm election and looking down the road to 2008, that if the president doesn't get his way, that Democrats are going to potentially pay a political price if there's another terror attack.

BIDEN: I'm not worried about that. What I think the American people are going to look and say look, on one side of the equation you have got Colin Powell, a revered four star general, secretary of state, John Warner, Lindsay Graham, John McCain. On the other side you have the Secretary of Defense Cheney, I mean Rumsfeld, the vice president of the United States. Who are the American people going to believe? I'm not worried.

BLITZER: You are not worried about that.

BIDEN: I am not.

BLITZER: All right, let's move on and talk about another sensitive issue. I want you to listen to what the president said today when asked if this was a moment when he's going to be in New York next week at the United Nations General Assembly, the president of Iran is going be in New York at the United Nations General Assembly, for the two of them to actually sit down and meet and talk. Listen to what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: No, I'm not going to meet with him. I have made it clear to the Iranian regime that we will sit down with the Iranians once they verifiably suspend their enrichment program and I meant what I said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you think? Should the president talk to the Iranian leader?

BIDEN: John Kennedy once said America should never negotiate out of fear and should never fear to negotiate. We are the most powerful nation in the world. If the Iranians ask to sit down, how in the lord's name would it be dangerous for the president of the United States? What are we doing? Giving this guy credibility? Does anybody not know who this guy is? I don't think that we'll, I don't think they would want to sit down, either one of them.

But the point is to say to the whole world, look, the greatest ally we have in our fight against the Iranian radicals and the theocracy are the Iranian people. The Iranian people, as you have repeatedly pointed out in your polling data, do not like their government.

And among all the states in the region where we are the most popular, the American people, is in Iran. So what do we do? Our voice remains silent. We don't speak into and give excuses for and give rationale to the Iranian people to politically take on their leadership. I think it's a big mistake not to talk.

BLITZER: He has said, the Iranian president Ahmadinejad, he's challenged the president of the United States to a debate. He says he would welcome a debate, a face to face debate with Mr. Bush.

BIDEN: Well that's theater, that's theater. I agree with President Bush. That is ridiculous to respond to that. But on the other hand, if he's up at the United Nations and a top diplomat came and said Mr. President, the president would like to quietly meet with you. He thinks we may be able to work something out. What would you do? I would say OK, I'll meet with him. I don't have to give up anything. What am I risking by that?

The flip of that is if Ahmadinejad is out there saying I want to debate the president. That's just foolish. It's ridiculous. The president is right just to brush that off.

BLITZER: Joe Biden is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thanks very much.

BIDEN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And still to come. He's one of the richest men in the world. But can he afford a controversial comparison? Referring to the billionaire George Soros. We'll tell you what he's saying. What he has been saying and what he's saying now.

And should the Pope apologize for restating controversial comments about Islam? We're going to tell you why Muslims worldwide are outraged. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Let's go to CNN's Zain Verjee, she's joining us once again with a quick look at some other important stories making news. Hi Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Hurricane Helene (ph) is lashing the western coast of Mexico flooding ports and causing a landslide that killed a 7-year-old boy. The storm was upgraded to a hurricane just minutes ago. Officials have issued hurricane warnings for Baja, California and a hurricane watch for much of Mexico's pacific coast.

Investors seem unimpressed with the latest cuts at Ford. The price of shares slipped more than 11 percent today over disappointments that the automaker didn't do more to curb the rising health and pension costs. Investors are also upset that Ford executives didn't do more to combat the falling market share. Ford announced today that it's closing two more plants and cutting about 10,000 more jobs.

Two Wisconsin teenagers are expected to face charges today of conspiring to commit first degree murder. The 17-year-olds were arrested yesterday at East High School in Green Bay after a student alerted school officials. Police found weapons and homemade bombs in the boys' homes and say that they were planning a mass killing at their school -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much Zain for that. Let's get back to our top story. The raging debate over how best to conduct a war on terror. Politicians and every day people are weighing in. And one of the world's wealthiest men has written a book with comments very, very critical of the Bush administration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Let's talk about your new book, "The Age of Fallibility, Consequences of the War on Terror." I want to read to you a quote that sort of startled me, I'm sure a lot of your readers once they read it. "The Bush administration and the Nazi and communist regimes all engaged in the politics of fear. Indeed, the Bush administration has been able to improve on the technique used by the Nazi and communist propaganda machines by drawing on the innovations of the advertising and marketing industries." Now when a lot of people hear comparisons between President Bush and Nazis and communists, they're going to say George Soros, you've gone over the top.

GEORGE SOROS, CHAIRMAN, OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE: You actually pick up the most incendiary part of the book and I am very careful to draw a clear distinction between the Nazi regime and our open society because we are a democracy. But there are some similarities in the propaganda methods which I have pointed out.

BLITZER: But George Soros, you lived through the holocaust. You know firsthand what the Nazis were doing. You lived through the cold war, the worst of the era. To make comparisons between the president of the United States and these regimes, a lot of people are going to say what are you thinking?

SOROS: Well that is unfortunate because I think there are some serious arguments about our open society being endangered by the policies followed by the Bush administration. The war on terror which does not have an end, changes. It leads to an undue extension of executive powers. It has stifled debate. Criticizing the president is considered unpatriotic. And as a result we have been following policies which endanger our position.

BLITZER: A lot of people will agree with you on that. But where they will starkly disagree is to then bring in the whole Nazi and communist comparison.

SOROS: You are actually -- it's a valid point. And maybe I did go over the line. But I think that on the whole, my assessment is a balanced one. And the fact -- frankly when President Bush said you are either with us or you are with the terrorists, that's when I was reminded. But I should have probably kept it to myself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And you can see the full interview with George Soros this Sunday on CNN's "LATE EDITION", the last word in Sunday talk. I'll also ask him where he's going to put his money in the current presidential effort. That airs Sunday morning 11:00 a.m. eastern. We're on the air for two hours from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. George Soros among my guests this Sunday.

The Bush administration is under fire for its treatment of some detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Meantime the Pentagon is saying there's plenty you don't know about the detention center in Cuba, at least 10 things that you don't know. Let's bring back Abbi Tatton -- Abbi. ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf it may look like a Letterman top 10 list but the Pentagon is saying that this is no joke. Ten facts about Guantanamo posted online, the Department of Defense Web site. Some of the points here. Number two, more money is spent on meals for detainees than on U.S. troops. The average detainee gains about 20 pounds when they are there.

The Muslim call to prayer sounds five times a day. Recreation for detainees at the camp includes basketball, ping-pong, high top sneakers are provided. Now this was written by the public affairs office of the Department of Defense. A spokesman said it's a creative way to make a point and to counter the negative press. Amnesty International, the human rights group has in the past called Guantanamo Bay a gulag.

A Pentagon spokesman admits that the same benefits aren't given to all 460 detainees, CNN's Bob Franken counters another point. Point number nine in the top 10 list about Guantanamo transparency. Bob Franken who's visited the camp about 20 times points out that journalists are severely restricted in what they can and cannot see -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you Abbi for that. Up ahead a speech by the Pope sends shock waves through the Islamic world. Why are so many Muslims outraged?

And are the world's top models just too thin? Our Jeanne Moos weighs in on the story in the 7:00 p.m. eastern hour in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Our around the world segment coming up. First, let's check in with Lou Dobbs, he's getting ready for his program that begins right at the top of the hour. Lou?

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf thank you. Coming up at the top of the hour. Tonight, President Bush strongly defending his policies on the treatment of foreign terrorism suspects. Republican rebels in the Senate, however refuse to back down. Three of the country's best political analysts join me. A stunning admission by one of our top military commanders in Iraq, General Peter Chiarelli says the battle for Baghdad is now more critical than defeating insurgents in al Anbar province. We'll have that special report.

And President Bush blasting critics of his amnesty program for illegal aliens one day after the House of Representatives called for a 700-mile fence to be built along our border with Mexico. The chairman of the House homeland security committee Congressman Pete King is among our guests. We hope you will be with us as well. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much Lou for that. Around the world Muslims are voicing fury at Pope Benedict XVI after he quoted a medieval text critical of Islam. Let's bring back Zain Verjee she has the story. Zain? VERJEE: Wolf, a centuries-old conversation read out by the Pope has been received angrily by many Muslims.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE (voice-over): Angry chants from protesters after Friday prayers in Egypt. Down with the Pope, they shout. Similar scenes of outrage from Gaza, India, Lebanon, Turkey. Sparking this anger, comments by Pope Benedict XVI about Islam and the Prophet Mohammed.

At a university lecture in Germany, the Pope said, quote, "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhume such as his command to spread by the sword, the faith he preached." He was quoting a 14th century Byzantine Christian emperor. Reaction in the Muslim world was swift and widespread.

The Inman of Al Azzar Mosque in Egypt says the comments show the Pope's ignorance he says, adding it's an insult to all prophets. It would only worsen relations between Muslims and Christians.

With condemnation and furor on the streets and wide media coverage, the Vatican issued a statement saying, "The Pope didn't intend to offend anyone. That it was not the intention of the Holy Father to examine jihad and Muslim thought on it much less to offend Muslim believers." Many Christian and Muslim leaders are urging all religious leaders to be cautious about what they say not to inflame the situation further. But some analysts say damage has already been done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: Senior clerics from the Muslim world are demanding the Pope make a personal apology. And times.com is reporting a top catholic church official inside Turkey says the anger generated there may mean the Pope will have to cancel a planned trip to Turkey -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much Zain for that. Zain Verjee reporting. Let's check back with Jack Cafferty. Jack?

CAFFERTY: So that's the question for this hour. Do you think the Pope ought to apologize for those comments he made about Islam?

Dave in Vancouver, "If radical Catholic extremists were terrorizing the world, the Pope would be doing more about it than demanding apologies whenever his religion was criticized. Perhaps Islam should put more energy into cleaning its house than into feeling offended."

John in Dallas, "I'm not Catholic, the Pope need not apologize for anything. As much as I am a supporter of Islam and a believer in the Koran, why don't the people who are insulted get a grip? Only idiots and the Taliban find something written 600 years ago to be insulting." Ron writes, "Absolutely, the Pope should apologize to not only the Muslims but to the world. Perhaps he should read the history of the church and what it has done. He would find that he could not make amends for even one 100th of it all if he lived to be a million years old."

Peter in Houston, "Absolutely not, how do you apologize for the truth. Jihad, violent conversion, conversion by conquest have been the Muslim way for fourteen hundred years. For once a highly placed religious leader tells it like it is and the Muslims don't like it."

A. writes, "I am a practicing Catholic and I believe this Pope at the very least should apologize for his irresponsible statement. He was way out of line. Who needs someone with his visibility fanning the festering divide between Muslims and Christians?"

Gary in Hanover, Pennsylvania, "Jack, no. Not until Islam apologizes for their comments against the Jews and Christians of the world. They can dish it out but they can't take it."

And Nolan in Florida writes, "If the Muslims get violent because of what the Pope said, they'll just be proving his point." If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read some more of them online.

BLITZER: A lot of people do exactly that, Jack. Thanks very much Jack Cafferty in New York.

Up next, fighting a war without putting men and women on the front line. Might the future of warfare see robots replacing troops. Possibly even saving American lives. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As the death toll mounts for American soldiers in Iraq. What if lives could be saved by the use of technology? In today's "Welcome to the Future" report, letting robots fight the battles that would ordinarily be done by troops? CNN's Miles O'Brien has details -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, IEDs or improvised explosive devices have been blamed for more than 900 U.S. military deaths in Iraq. What if we could put robots in harm's way instead?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Scott Myers is an executive with General Dynamics, a company that specializes in unmanned warfare.

SCOTT MYERS, GENERAL DYNAMICS: I believe that the way we operate right now in the military, it will be completely different 15 years from now due to provided technology.

O'BRIEN: Right now the unmanned vehicle is not entirely autonomous. It uses sensors as well as commands from a man-lead vehicle to avoid obstacles and navigate rugged terrain. But if all goes well, Myers says this could one day lead to completely unmanned convoys. But don't look for robotic soldiers any time soon.

MYERS: We consider these robots as really co-combatant and not that we're replacing the soldiers but they could be more effective and do their jobs safely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: According to Myers last year there were just 400 robots being used in Iraq to detect and dispose of IEDs. Today there are nearly 4,000 robots in place. So from the looks of things, robotics is becoming an integral part of our country's warfare -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Miles thanks very much. I saw some of those robots in action when I was in Iraq last year. We're here in THE SITUATION ROOM 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. We're back at 7:00 p.m. eastern, one hour from now.

Among other things, Jeanne Moos is going to take a look at the controversy involving models. Can they be too thin? Coming up at 7:00 p.m. eastern. Until then, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM, let's go to New York, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now -- Lou.

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