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The Situation Room
Ahmadinejad and Chavez Find New Forums To Display Defiance; Republicans Trying To Work Out Compromise In Treatment of Terror Suspects; New Poll Numbers Concerning November Elections; George Allen Interview
Aired September 21, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, thanks very much.
And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, two of the world's toughest talking leaders stick their thumbs in President Bush's eye for a second day. It's 4:00 p.m. in New York where the presidents of Iran and Venezuela have been holding court. Even Mr. Bush's worst critics at home say they're outraged.
New movement this hour in the GOP war over terror. Are John McCain and other rebel Republican senators close to striking a deal with the White House? We'll have a live report on this developing story.
And Senator George Allen opening up for the very first time about the heritage his family kept secret for decades. Why did he wait to tell all until now? The Virginia Republican gets emotional about his Jewish roots and a very personal struggle. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
It apparently wasn't enough for the leaders of Iran and Venezuela to taunt and insult President Bush before the United Nations General Assembly. Today they found new forums to display their defiance. The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad held a news conference at the U.N. He flatly denied the Bush administration's claim that Iran is trying to develop a nuclear bomb.
And the Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez made a public appearance in Harlem. A day after likening President Bush to the Devil, Chavez called Mr. Bush a sick man today. Let's begin our coverage with our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth. He is following both of these presidents, Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Strident talk, Wolf, from the leader of Iran at a wide ranging press conference here at U.N. headquarters. Wide ranging, but not that illuminating because the president was constantly ducking and diving and diverting from what the questioner wanted to know. There were several follow-ups, asking the Iranian leader what did he exactly mean, was he correctly translated when he said last year that Israel, a United Nations member state, should be wiped off the face of the earth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRAN (through translator): These Zionists, I want tell you, are not Jews. That's the biggest deception we've ever faced. Zionists are Zionists, period. They are not Jews, they are not Christians and they are not Muslims. They are a power group, a power party and we oppose the oppression and the aggression that any party that seeks pure power, raw power, goes after and we announce and declare loudly that if you support that, you will be condemned by the rest of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The Iranian leader indicated some flexibility on negotiating regarding his program in Iran for nuclear power, which he says is strictly for peaceful purposes. The State Department didn't think much, Wolf, that that offer went anywhere at all.
BLITZER: What about Hugo Chavez? He was making a lot of noise in New York today.
ROTH: Yes. He went to the historic Harlem Mnt. Olive Church and he said that President Bush was a sick man and an alcoholic. He also again said President Bush was the devil and he seemed to indicate that because of his remarks yesterday at the U.N., he was threatened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA (through translator): I think he's a devil. Right now, they told me yesterday, last night, that I should be very careful because they could kill me. Well, I'm in God's hands. I'm never afraid. God would only know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The president also offered to double the amount of discounted oil his state-run oil company in Venezuela is shipping to needy Americans -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Richard at the U.N., thank you.
The anti-Bush tirades by Hugo Chavez are angering many Americans, including two of Mr. Bush's toughest Democratic critics. The House minority leader Nancy Pelosi and the New York Congressman Charlie Rangel fired back at Chavez today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: You don't come into my country, you don't come into my congressional district and you don't condemn my president. If there is any criticism of President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans, whether they voted for him or not. REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: The manner in which he characterized the president, he demeaned himself and he demeaned Venezuela. And he demeaned Venezuela. I think that he, Hugo Chavez, fancies himself a modern day Simone Bolivar but all he is is an everyday thug.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Let's move to a developing story on Capitol Hill right now. Republicans trying to work out a compromise in the treatment of terror suspects. There are developments unfolding. Our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel is watching this story. Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, for about the last hour the three renegade Republicans, John McCain, John Warner and Lindsey Graham, have all been huddled behind closed doors in the speaker of the Senate, excuse me, in the majority leader of the Senate's office, Bill Frist's office.
They're there also with members of the Bush administration, including national security advisor Steve Hadley. And we're told, according to Bill Frist's chief of staff, that they are focusing right now on narrowing their differences on what is known as Common Article III of the Geneva Convention.
They feel that they are close and hopeful that they will reach agreement on this issue and the expectation, according to Eric Youland (ph) is that they are equally hopeful that if they are able to resolve this during this meeting that is taking place right now, that they will also be able to resolve the two other sticking points, among others, that have to do with using coerced testimony in trial and withholding what is known as classified intelligence from defendants even if you give it to the jury.
We're also told that the majority leader, Bill Frist, gave an ultimatum, effectively, to these three senators, saying, this was earlier this morning, we need to have you in my office by 5:00 this afternoon. We need to get this resolved by the end of the day today. There have been all kinds of signals, Wolf, all kinds of rumors, all kinds of reports out there that a deal has been reached, but according to our sources and also according to Bill Frist's chief of staff, they are not there as yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, we'll stay on top of this story with you Andrea. Thanks very much. A potentially significant development with the clock ticking.
The former president Bill Clinton presided over a big money announcement today that could have serious political repercussions. The British Tycoon Richard Branson is pledging to spend an estimated $3 billion over the next ten years to fight global warming. The Virgin Group chairman unveiled his plan at a global gathering hosted by Bill Clinton in New York City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHARD BRANSON, CHAIRMAN, VIRGIN GROUP: What we're pledging is that a hundred percent of the profits from our five air lines and our train companies will be spent in tackling global warming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And I'll speak with Richard Branson about this huge investment he is making and why he's doing it, how it's being received. He'll be my guest in the 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Zain Verjee is on assignment today. Fredricka Whitfield joining us now from the CNN Center with a closer look at some other important stories making news. Hi Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD:, CNN ANCHOR: Hello Wolf. Well I know it's tempting, but continue to avoid fresh Spinach. Officials could be closing in on the source of the E. coli outbreak, however, that has spread across 23 states. Officials have found a bag of tainted Spinach in a refrigerator. This discovery has allowed them to narrow their search to nine farms in California. The farms are in Monterey, San Benito and Santa Clara. The E. coli outbreak has killed one person.
And always low prices, Wal-Mart's longtime slogan that they want customers to remember. As part of that today, Wal-Mart announced they will sell generic prescriptions for as low as four dollars for a 30 day supply. That starts tomorrow in Wal-Mart stores in and near Tampa, Florida. Wal-Mart says it will cover all of Florida early next year. Customers and Wal-Mart employees can take advantage, as well as people with no insurance.
And what you don't want to know may hurt you. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that some 250,000 people are HIV positive and don't even know it. The CDC now wants doctors to routinely test for HIV in people between ages 13 and 64-years-old when they are getting a medical screening. The CDC says the test should be voluntary. Patients must give consent and be able to refuse as well. The CDC hopes more people who know that they are positive, the more they'll seek treatment or protect their partners -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Fred. Fred will be back. Let's check in with Jack Cafferty. He's New York with the Cafferty File, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hey Wolf, it's been four months since Iraq's Unity government took office and so far things aren't looking so bright. Sectarian violence, insurgent attacks now claiming an average of 100 lives every day. Just today seven people died, roadside bombs, various attacks around Baghdad. Police there found another 38 bodies, many with their hands bound, showing signs they had been tortured.
Meanwhile, some members of Congress here in the U.S. continue to criticize Iraq's new prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, both with his recent meeting with Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and for refusing to contain Hezbollah.
President Bush said yesterday he's optimistic that Iraq's government will succeed, and that the Iraqi people can count on U.S. support, quote, "so long as the government continues to make the tough choices necessary for peace to prevail," a quote by the president. Well, whatever choices the Iraqi government has been making, the death toll in that country is rising, not falling.
Here is the question: Is it time for the Iraqis to replace Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki? E-mail your thoughts on that to CaffertyFile@CNN.com, or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.
Oh, and another thing. Isn't it time to throw Chavez and Ahmadinejad, or whatever the hell his name is, out of the country? It's like a rock tour around this city. They're showing up everywhere, cameras follow them everywhere, and all they do is insult our government and our leadership. Enough. Export them on the next boat, Wolf. Get them out of here.
BLITZER: I guess they can't do that since the United Nations happens to be on the East Side of Manhattan.
CAFFERTY: Push them into the river then and float them out into the harbor and send them on their way. I'm tired of listening to Chavez bloviate about -- and call President Bush names. We can do that here in this country. He's not one of us.
BLITZER: Jack Cafferty, thank you very much.
Up next, the presidential pick me up, or a White House drag? We will explain the very different new poll numbers out today on the president's performance and the battle for Congress.
Plus, I sat down yesterday for an exclusive interview with President Bush. In today's "Strategy Session," Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett are standing by to break down what the president said.
And later, he thought it would be an easy reelection but now George Allen is in a very, very tough political fight and now there's an additional issue -- coming clean about his Jewish roots for the first time, speaking to me here about a decades-old family secret. You're going to want to see this exclusive and emotional interview with Senator Allen. All that coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It's a safe bet that White House officials are carefully studying a new round of poll numbers out today, and they're no doubt looking for signs that the president and congressional Republicans are in better political shape less than seven weeks, that is, before Election Day.
Let's bring in our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider. He is pouring through all of these numbers. Are we seeing a rebound for the president, Bill? WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Maybe. That is the best answer I can give you based on three polls that were taken after the president's series of speeches dealing with the war on terror, culminating in his primetime speech commemorating the fifth anniversary of 9/11.
Two polls show the president's job rating up: 45 percent approval in the "Los Angeles Time"/Bloomberg poll, 44 percent in the "USA Today"/Gallup poll, both of them up five points. Now, the CBS News/"New York Times" poll shows President Bush at 37 percent approval, no significant change since last month.
Now, notice that all three polls continue to show a majority of Americans disapproving of the president's job performance. In historical terms, even in the mid 40s, President Bush is in a politically weak position going into the midterm elections. His rating would have to rise above 50 for his party really to benefit.
So, while President Bush may have gotten a boost on handling terrorism -- and the evidence on that point is mixed -- it does not seem to be strong enough to turn the political situation around.
BLITZER: What about the public's view of Congress?
SCHNEIDER: Very negative, and it's Congress that people are going to be voting on this year. In the CBS News/"New York Times" poll, only 25 percent of Americans say they approve of the job Congress is doing, and that is one of the lowest job ratings for Congress on record. It's even lower when people are asked whether most members of Congress deserve to be reelected. Only 12 percent say yes. Seventy-six percent say it's time to give new people a chance.
Now, of course, people do not vote for most members of Congress. They vote for their own representative and, typically, most voters say throw the bums out! But my guy is OK. But notice that this year, only 42 percent say their own member of Congress deserves to be reelected. Forty-seven percent say, hey, give somebody new a chance.
When voters are ready to turn against their own representative, that's when you know politicians are in trouble. All that anger at Congress threatens the Republican's majorities. All three of those polls show Democrats ahead when registered voters nationwide are asked how they intend to vote for Congress this year -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider reporting for us. Good work. Thank you. Bill Schneider is part of the best political team on television.
Up next, does the White House have a lot of explaining to do to Pakistan's president? Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett will tackle the response to my exclusive interview with the president of the United States.
Plus, Senator George Allen's emotional and personal journey. The embattled Republican opening up for the first time about discovering his Jewish roots. Could it help or hurt his reelection bid? That powerful and exclusive interview with Senator Allen coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. In our strategy session, the specter of a deal on the treatment of terror suspects, President Bush breaking news in our exclusive interview with him yesterday. And the devilish talks by Venezuela's Hugo Chavez. Joining us now, CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, and CNN contributor Bill Bennett, the host of the radio program "Morning in America."
Thanks guys, very much for coming in. What do you make, first of all, it looks like Bill Frist, the Senate Republican leader and the majority leader, bringing these other maverick Republicans, John McCain, John Warner and Lindsey Graham in, trying to get this deal before the clock runs out? Congress, about to go in recess. What does it mean?
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it's important, especially if the administration is now ready to, you know, support some of the elements that John McCain offered this weekend. I think the proposal is a good proposal, it gives the administration a way out. The administration should sign this deal, kiss this good-bye and start, you know, bringing these terror suspects to justice.
BLITZER: Is the president going to blink?
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know. I don't know the substance of the deal and we'll see. I think it's regrettable he found himself in this situation. There was not a great hue and cry to bring these guys out of wherever they were to the United States. But now that they're there, I agree with Donna, get the deal, get it done, get it behind you, and move on to immigration.
BLITZER: Was there damage done to the Republicans going into this midterm election?
BENNETT: I don't think to the Republicans, because it is all Republicans. That is, if it's put together, it will be put together by Republicans. Democrats remain kind of irrelevant to the process.
BLITZER: I interviewed, Donna, the president of the United States yesterday. And he made news by suggesting, you know what, even if the Pakistanis don't like it, the U.S., if it had actionable intelligence, would cross the line, go into Pakistan, sovereign Pakistani soil, and capture or kill bin Laden or other al Qaeda operatives. Listen to this little clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: If you had good actionable intelligence in Pakistan where they were, would you give the order to kill them or capture them?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Absolutely.
BUSH: Go into Pakistan.
Absolutely.
BLITZER: Even thought the Pakistanis say that's their sovereign territory?
BUSH: Absolutely. We would take the action necessary to bring them to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER:: Probably what the American public wants to hear. The question is the fallout. He is going to be meeting with President Musharraf, and Musharraf wasn't very happy about that.
BRAZILE: Well, look. We knew that bin Laden was in Tora Bora and we messed up that opportunity. So I will hope the president, when he meets with Mr. Musharraf, will clarify what he said. But if we have intelligence, credible intelligence that we know where bin Laden is, let's bring them to justice.
BENNETT: Well, I don't know who that reporter was, that clever reporter, walking him down the garden.
That was the back of your head, wasn't it?
BLITZER: Something like that.
BENNETT: Yes, all right, if there is actionable intelligence, sure.
Look, there are people on the ground. We have people on the ground in Pakistan. No doubt there are agreements with Musharraf. That, when the time comes, to go after bin Laden, we can go after bin Laden.
BLITZER: There is another clip I want to play about what he said as far as immigration. As both of you know, for a long time, the president said all or nothing, it's got to be a comprehensive immigration package. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Even though it's not part of what you want, comprehensive immigration reform, if the Senate passes what the House has passed, will you sign it into law?
BUSH: Yes, I'll sign it into law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He said he would sign it into law, even though it would be limited to building a 700 mile fence in effect and not having the guest worker program or the other aspects that the, pro, quote," immigration types" want. Are the Democrats going to be in a pickle on whether they go along with the president on this? BRAZILE: The Democrat support strengthening our borders, we want to see our borders secured. The Democrats also supported a comprehensive approach, is what President Bush also rallied the American people for several months ago. If this the only thing we can get out of Congress, I think this is the beginning of, hopefully, a two-step process so that we can, one, secure the border and then come up with some other program to deal with the people are already here.
BLITZER: Only a few days everybody thought immigration was over this time and it looks like it's making a little bit of a come back at least in terms of building a fence.
BENNETT: Right. We all thought this issue was over. But, at last, at last, the president saw the light here, in my view and saw that he had to do something. Get credit for the border security, that's the big part, that's part most of the American people are concerned about. And deal with the other stuff later. So I think he has been persuaded and it's about time.
BLITZER: Here is something that was pretty impressive today, or amazing, given the bitter political atmosphere right now in Washington. Nancy Pelosi, Charlie Rangel, two of the more liberal Democrats, big critics of the president, they came out and defended him because of what Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president has been saying. We played it earlier, some of their remarks, saying Hugo Chavez is way, way out of line. What do you make of this?
BRAZILE: Well, look. Bill Clinton, last night also condemned those remarks. I thought his remarks were over the top. At a time when third world countries, when developing nations, when Latin America is looking for trade, looking for ways to raise the standard of living, Mr. Chavez used his moment to denounce George Bush. That was stupid and God knows the world, the third world countries, Latin America need better leaders than Mr. Chavez.
BLITZER: What do you think, Bill?
BENNETT: Well, I think it was good of what Charlie Rangel said, Nancy Pelosi said.
BLITZER: Charlie Rangel, specifically, because he went to Harlem, Chavez, and that is Charlie Rangel's district.
BENNETT: Well, that's right. It was his territoriality in two senses, it's his territory, Harlem, second, in Charlie's remarks, and I know Charlie very well, as you both do. If there was any criticizing of the president, I'll do it, you know? That's our job.
But I think there's a little bit of a worry here on the part of Democrats. I think the supporting moment -- the American people saw that and they don't like this kind of thing at all. I think Democrats who have been over the top rhetorically, and some have, this ad from "USA Today" yesterday, for example, lies, murderous actions by Bush. They are going to be a little embarrassed if they pull back.
And so I think what Pelosi did and Rangel did was smart. I predict there'll be a rallying for George Bush, that you'll see his numbers go up because of this. People look around, they see this guy, Chavez, they see Ahmadinejad, they see what happens when the pope speaks. People are going to rally to the commander in chief.
BLITZER: Well, we got some mixed numbers as Bill Schneider was telling us on the president's job approval numbers. They seem in that Gallup/"USA Today" poll moving up a bit, 44 percent. But in the CBS and "New York Times" poll, it was showing no movement at all. Take a look at these numbers, you see them right there, the CBS/"New York Times" poll, only 37 percent there. It's a mixed bag.
BRAZILE: Well...
BLITZER: Hold on. Hold on, one second. I want to go right up to the Hill. Bill Frist, is the majority leader, is speaking on this issue of terror interrogation, whether or not there's a deal.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: And third ensures that our military can begin to try terrorists in our custody. We've got a lot more to do and you'll hear each and every one of us saying that. We felt that it was important, having the leadership in the United States Senate, having the Armed Services Committee with the chairman and several of his members here, joined by the House of Representatives, joined and equal, if not most important, by the White House, who has initiated the initial legislation that all of us stand together to reflect that common agreement.
I say much more to do because we all have a lot our colleagues, both on the House side and the Senate side, who have not yet seen the agreement and will spend a lot of time over the next 48 hours talking to the Republican conference, talking to our Democrat colleagues in the United States Senate.
We have several people who will make a very brief statements, but let me congratulate and turn to the chairman of Armed Services Committee, John Warner, who has done a tremendous job shepherding through this agreement. And then we'll hear from Stephen Hadley, National Security Advisor to the President of the United States, who has obviously been in the middle of these negotiations and discussions, and then Duncan Hunter. And with that, others can make comments -- Mr. Chairman.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: Thank you very much, Mr. Leader. I, first, want to thank you and Senator McConnell in recognizing that the way our Senate is organized, the committee structure, the Armed Services Committee had a function to perform, an important one, and we did our duty.
And I'm pleased now that we're joined by others who recognized it was a good faith effort. And I particularly want to thank my two colleagues, Senator McCain, a man that I've worked with ever since I was Secretary of the Navy, and Senator Lindsey Graham.
And I want to also thank the president and his team, because throughout these negotiations, they were always available. We had what I regard as a very cordial and constructive working relationship and we created a product which will now be brought before this body, a Republican caucus, and I hope our colleagues on the other side of the aisle.
But this matter has to be carefully considered by both chambers, Senate and House. I've had the opportunity to lead my longtime friend here, Duncan Hunter. And once the president puts signature to paper, that's when we will have a deal.
Thank you.
BLITZER: All right.
We just heard from the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, John Warner. This is Stephen Hadley, the president's national security adviser. We will monitor what he is saying.
But the news is significant news, a potential breakthrough -- in fact, they -- they're calling it an agreement on interrogating terror detainees. We do not know the specifics. We do not know if the president budged or Senator McCain and Warner or Lindsey Graham budged, if they found common ground in the middle, perhaps.
We're going to work to bring you all of these details, but a potentially significant breakthrough right now -- the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, saying they still need 48 hours to work this matter out. We will follow this story and get you the latest.
I want to just thank our guests, our "Strategy Session," Donna and Bill, an excellent discussion. We will continue this down the road.
Up next: Why was Senator George Allen so angry the other day, when he was asked about his Jewish roots? And why was he so emotional today when I talked with him about it? The Virginia Republican is now opening up for the first time about a decades-old family secret, even as he fights to keep his job.
This is an exclusive interview. You're going to want to see this.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're learning more today about Senator George Allen's religious roots from the Virginia Republican himself.
For the first time, Senator Allen is now opening up about his Jewish heritage his family had hidden for years, just days after he tried to deflect questions about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now, Senator George Allen, Republican of Virginia.
Senator, thanks very much for coming in.
SEN. GEORGE ALLEN (R), VIRGINIA: Good to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: This is a difficult week for you, and it started really, publicly at least, on Monday at that debate in Northern Virginia. I want to play a little bit of that clip, what happened.
Watch this. Turn around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Following the macaca episode, the Jewish press published stories that appeared on the Internet that explored your possible Jewish ancestry on your mother's side.
You have been quoted as saying your mother is not Jewish, but it has been reported that her father, your grandfather, Felix, whom you were given your middle name for, was Jewish. Could you please tell us whether your forebearers include Jews, and, if so, at which point Jewish identity might have ended?
(BOOING)
ALLEN: You know what? I'm glad you all have that -- I'm glad you have that reaction.
You know what our first freedom in our country was? Freedom of religion, where people's rights are not enhanced nor diminished on account of their religious beliefs. Thomas Jefferson was the author of that.
As we try to stand up free and just societies, that's the first pillar of a free and just society. And to be getting into what religion my mother is, I don't think is relevant. Whether one person believes in -- whatever their beliefs may be is not relevant.
And, so, I would like to ask you, why is that relevant, my religion, Jim's religion, or the religious beliefs of anyone out there?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ALLEN: My mother is French-Italian ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honesty...
ALLEN: ... with a little Spanish blood in her.
And I have been raised, and she was, as far as I know, raised as a Christian. But if you really need to get into such matters...
UNIDENTIFIED: Honesty, that's all just -- that's what...
ALLEN: Oh, that's just all. That's just all.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: All right, Senator.
All that point, Monday, you knew by then your mother was, in fact, Jewish.
ALLEN: I knew that my mother's parents were Jewish. She was born into a Jewish family.
When she was a kid, she had converted and was confirmed in the Anglican Church. What bothered me at that time was that -- the way the question was answered, is that somebody's rights might be enhanced, nor diminished on account of religious beliefs. And I have always felt very strongly about freedom of religion. And I do feel it's the first pillar of a free and just society.
And I knew what she was getting at, also. And my mother -- I asked my mother about this late -- late in August. There was some article in -- I believe it was called "The Forward."
BLITZER: A Jewish publication in Europe, "The Forward..."
ALLEN: Right.
BLITZER: ... published a short article...
ALLEN: Right.
BLITZER: ... saying that you had Jewish ancestry.
ALLEN: Right. And it talked about how somebody -- that they were in Portugal and then went to Livonia, or someplace like that.
And I always knew my mother was Italian and French and a little Spanish, and so I was with my mother across the table. And I asked her. I said, you know, there's these rumors flying around here that you're Jewish or, you know, Jewish bloodlines and so forth. And I asked her, is this -- is there anything to this? '
And I saw her reaction. And she said, yes, there are.
And I said, well, why didn't you ever tell?
I didn't want to tell you. Do you love me? You won't love me as much.
I said, oh, ma, why would that make -- I love you even more. I respect you even more.
When I heard of why she had hid this, for fear of retribution, of stigma, and how that would harm not just her, but my father and her children -- she was protecting her children.
And I said, well, ma, this just doesn't matter. You know, the Nazis are gone. And it just doesn't matter.
And she says -- especially when she said, does this make you love me any less?
And I just -- no, I loved her more.
And I said, well, this -- let's just stop. You know, this -- there's no reason to carry on with this.
She -- so, she said, please, please, you cannot tell anyone. Tell no one. No one.
BLITZER: Why was she -- why was she still so...
ALLEN: And I said, well, I got to tell -- does Bruce know this? Does -- do my other brothers and sisters?
No. And she said, don't tell.
I promise.
You promise? You can't tell anybody?
And I said, ma, it doesn't matter.
And, so, when you get to this, it's a question, you know, what's more important, a question -- a political question from a reporter, or your mother? And my answer was defending my mother, and, as a son, protecting your mother, and knowing how much this still meant to her. And...
BLITZER: Did you father know, George Allen, the former great football coach? All of us loved him, especially those of us who were Redskins fans. Did he know the background of your mother and her family?
ALLEN: Yes. I found that out, too. I said, hey, did dad know?
Because there were concerns of -- my father was Catholic -- my mother, first of all, not a Catholic, but Anglican, and with Jewish heritage. She hid that because -- for those fears as well.
BLITZER: Was it -- was...
ALLEN: But my father did know. She told me my father knew.
BLITZER: Because, in today's "Washington Post," they interviewed your mother, and the suggestion was that his family would have been upset knowing of her Jewish ancestry.
ALLEN: That's true, and she shared that with me.
Wolf, this is more than any sort of political campaign. This is so personal. To think that a person 70 years, 60 years since the Nazis is still having that pain in her, it's still paining her; she still lives in fear of that intimidation, that bigotry, that prejudice, that anti-Semitism, still is fearful in my mother.
And to see her hurt and to think that there are millions of others, and that we're hurt by this as well, that the person you love is still in fear and worrying, and that she's hid this all these years, and she was worried that her friends wouldn't like her, if they found this out.
And I just told her, ma, it doesn't matter. We love you for who you are. You're our spirit of the family. You're the essence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And coming up: Senator Allen becomes even more emotional, as he reveals more secrets about his family, and he also speaks out on the now famous macaca controversy and his tough reelection fight.
More of this exclusive interview, that is coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A deal has been reached between the White House and rebel Republicans on interrogating terror detainees, as well as putting them on trial.
We're just beginning get some specific details of that story coming up. We are going to bring it to you shortly, but a deal between the White House and Senator Warner, senator McCain, Senator Lindsey Graham, those rebel Republicans, apparently has been worked out. The Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, says they hope to resolve all the matters and have a final vote in the Senate and the House by next week -- very significant story. We will have details.
Let's get back, though, now to my exclusive interview with Senator George Allen. He's telling his story for the first time about his Jewish ancestry, and long and closely held family secret.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The ancestry is a very distinguished ancestry the Lumbroso name. I don't know if you know this, but we did some research.
ALLEN: No. I'm learning a lot.
BLITZER: We did some research in the Jewish Encyclopedia. Your mother was from Tunisia, originally.
ALLEN: Correct.
BLITZER: Northern Africa, a lot of Italian immigrants, French immigrants, they settled there. And Tunisia, at one point, had a very, very impressive Jewish community, and the leadership of the Jewish community was the Lumbroso family.
In fact, the prominent Tunisian Sephardic -- it was a prominent Tunisian Sephardic Jewish name. Isaac Lumbroso was the chief rabbi of Tunis in the 18th century. Baron Abram Lumbroso was the 19th century physician and scientist. And Baron Giacomo Lumbroso was the 19th and 20th century professor of history.
And if you speak with Jews from Tunisia and they hear the name Lumbroso, that's sort of like speaking to Jews from France and they hear the name Rothschild. I mean, it's a prominent Jewish name.
ALLEN: May I have this?
BLITZER: Of course. And go to the jewishencyclopedia.com, and you'll read about this, your family, and you'll learn a great deal.
ALLEN: Wolf, I'm very proud of my heritage. I'm learning more and more about it. I want to teach this to my children.
This, in a roundabout way, fits into what my mother would talk about, and why she was so fearful, because my grandfather, her father, was rousted out of bed at about 10:00 at night, middle of the night, by the Nazis, because they occupied Tunisia, rousted him out of bed, grabbed him, and put him in prison.
Now, I never did get the reality or the truth as to whether it was because of his religion, because he's a prominent businessman, because he was an allied sympathizer, whether he was a worry to the Nazis, as far as any resistance.
BLITZER: Because you have spoken in your speeches over the year about your grandfather.
ALLEN: Oh, yes. No, I knew it.
See, we would not bring this up, because my mother did tell how Pop-pop, as we called him, was incarcerated by the Nazis. He survived, but it was very painful to her, so we wouldn't ever want to bring it up. Why would you want to bring up something that brings, obviously, pain or bad memories back to you mother?
BLITZER: And you had no inkling, if you hear that your grandfather was incarcerated by the Nazis, that maybe he was Jewish?
ALLEN: Well, I had asked, why did they do it? And my mother said, her reasons -- and it may have been because he was Jewish, but the way she said it is, they would round up prominent people.
This is why what you're saying here fits into it. She wanted to protect her babies. That's what she had -- as a mother, trying to protect her babies.
BLITZER: Because I got to tell you, as...
ALLEN: ... from the stigma, from anti-Semitism. Just talking to her since this, she says, what, are they going to be putting gold stars on you all and so forth?
And it's -- my mother is a brave woman, and what I have learned from this -- I have learned a lot. This is learning about my heritage. And I'm very proud of my mother. And I'm even more proud of my grandfather. And I have been a leader for fighting against anti-Semitism and intolerance, but now it's personal. And I'm going to use my time here on Earth to continue to fight for freedom and justice, and to make sure intolerance does -- never rears its ugly head in this country or anywhere else in the world, because it causes a great deal of fear, intimidation, and lessening the opportunities for people in life.
And seeing it from my mother and sharing it with people just this last week, for others who have had similar experiences, this is the land of opportunity for all. It is a country where we do have that first pillar of freedom of religion, where rights are not enhanced, nor diminished on account of religious beliefs, where we do have freedom of expression, and our God-given rights are protected by the rule of law.
BLITZER: Some people, when they saw the clip from the debate on Monday, they saw your reaction, irritation, and we didn't know what was going on at the time, came away and said, why is he so sensitive about maybe having some Jewish heritage? Is he embarrassed about that? Is he afraid that anti-Semites in Virginia might not vote for him if they think there's some Jewish -- some Jewish history there?
You understand why it caused that kind of reaction?
ALLEN: I don't know what all the reaction is for, whether political or otherwise.
I know that the audience also thought it was inappropriate. But I'll tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking of my mother. I was thinking as a son, and I wanted to protect my mother and her wishes and the promise I made to her.
And I'm glad that she has now released me from that promise. And we, as a family, the Allen family, can now search our records of our history and the lineage, through the Lumbroso side, as well as the Allen side.
And, most importantly, I would always remember my father saying, we're all put here on Earth for a reason. And there's something you can do well, and you cheat yourself or you cheat others if you don't do it to the full potential.
And I think I have an idea of one of those personal missions that I have here. And I'm going to use whatever platform, whether it's the U.S. Senate, no matter what, to advocate for freedom and justice and -- and for tolerance of all people.
And I love my mother. I always will. And, in fact, I even love her, and, more importantly, respect her, more than ever.
And it's a shame that she's had to live this life, but maybe she also feels from all of this a good has come from it, that she no longer has to hide this and worrying about it when somebody will make some remark and she has to be quiet.
Now everyone knows. And I think that you're finding out her real friends, and they're calling her up. And my wife's calling. And, so, that's good.
But, most importantly, that is a lesson for all of us, for all Americans. I learned it as a son in a tough situation. But, more importantly, I think I'm stronger from it, and I'm more resolved than ever before to continue leading for tolerance, freedom and justice.
BLITZER: I'll ask one final question...
ALLEN: Sure.
BLITZER: ... and bring it back to politics a little bit. The latest Mason-Dixon Poll, George Allen, 46 percent, Jim Webb, 42 percent.
It's getting to be a fairly close race right now, the stumble with the macaca comment a month or so ago.
Give us your assessment of the political fallout, how this is going to impact your chances for reelection.
ALLEN: I don't know the political -- you can talk to all the political consultants. They're the experts on all that.
All I know is that the people of Virginia have known me. They've seen my actions as governor, and, the last six years, as United States senator. They've heard the missions that I have said are important for the future of this country, protecting our freedom, making sure this is a land of opportunity for all, and also preserving our foundational values.
And those values are the same values I have now. I think I will speak with probably a little bit more passion on certain foundational values, and making sure this is a land of opportunity for all people, regardless of their background. And I think that my record as governor, whether it's in education, law enforcement protection issues, more jobs, more opportunity, keeping the Internet free of taxation, nanotechnology, all of these ideas are to make sure this country is a land of opportunity for all.
And, more importantly, I'm really glad that, over the years, I have been fighting to increase funding for minority-serving institutions, to make sure that, whether somebody is an American- Indian, a Latino, or an African-American, has that opportunity to compete and succeed in America.
BLITZER: One final question, Senator, because I know you got to go.
The word macaca, a lot of people -- I never heard of that word before. A lot of people are wondering, where did you find that word?
ALLEN: I made it up.
BLITZER: Because, in French, especially in Northern Africa, it's a derogatory term for dark-skinned people. ALLEN: The word in French -- and my mother is, as you saw in the "Washington Post" article, looked it up, and there is no such word in that dictionary as macaca.
I would never use a word -- I would never use a word that, in any -- if I had any inkling, any idea that the word would be offensive to someone, I would not use it. It's not who I am. It's not how I was raised. My mother raised us in tolerance. And the concept of freedom and tolerance, learned that from my mother.
From my father, in the football teams that I played on and he coached, he didn't care about someone's religion or their race or their ethnicity. All you cared about is whether they can help your team win. You cared about their character.
In fact, as kids, my father would say, look at that Deacon Jones over there. When you grow up, I want you to be like Deacon Jones. He's the best ever, but look how hard he works.
And, in fact, my sister named one of her children Deacon. She named the other one Roman, after Roman Gabriel.
And it's who I am. And that is one who thinks there ought to be a meritocracy, a level playing field, in our society. So, that was a mistake. It was a thoughtless comment, but there's no way that I would ever want to insult anyone.
And then to somehow drag my mother into it was particularly inappropriate.
BLITZER: Senator, thanks very much. I know this has been painful for you, difficult for you, but...
ALLEN: Liberating in some respects, as well.
BLITZER: ... I suspect you're going to do a lot of family history right now.
ALLEN: Yes.
BLITZER: Thanks for coming in.
ALLEN: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And still ahead, I will speak with another public figure who learned about her Jewish roots late in -- later in life, the former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. I will ask her about Senator Allen's emotional journey. We will also speak at length about the latest verbal slaps at President Bush from Iran and Venezuela.
Secretary Albright standing by in New York -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Still to come: President Bush gives him a vote of confidence, but should Iraqis replace the prime minister, Nuri al- Maliki?
Jack Cafferty with your e-mail -- right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go back to New York and Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Wolf, with deaths in Iraq now averaging 100 a day, some people in the United States Congress are beginning to question the effectiveness of the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki. And then there was that photo-op he did with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from Iran. That made some other members of this government unhappy.
So, the question is, is it time for the Iraqis to replace their prime minister?
Bob writes from California: "Why is it, whenever someone is trying to keep the peace in the Middle East, they are crucified? This guy is trying to make sure Iran is not going to attack his country -- very smart, I think. Leave the guy alone. Let him do what he was elected to do."
Pete in Arkansas: "No. It's time to replace our troops with theirs. Iraq will then get the nation they choose."
Greg in Baltimore: "Absolutely not. The prime minister has only been in office a little over three months. How can we expect the Iraq mess to disappear overnight? His meeting with the leader of Iran isn't a bad thing. As a sovereign country, Iraq must work with its neighbor Iran. Iran will be their neighbor long after the United States leaves."
Gina in Houston: "At this point, I think replacing the Iraqi prime minister probably wouldn't make any difference. There's so much violence and chaos in Iraq, the official government doesn't seem to be very relevant."
Jack in California: "It's not time for the Iraqi prime minister to step down. It's time for the U.S. to step aside. It's their country now. Let them fight for it or lose it."
And John in New Jersey: "Yes, it's time. Replace him with Saddam Hussein. We can call it Operation Do Over. Politically, team Bush takes a foreign policy mulligan and sticks with the bad intelligence story. In the end, the insurgents are gone, water and power turned on, oil flowing, Iraqis back to living their lives, and, most importantly, our soldiers and good name are home and safe" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you.
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