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The Situation Room
Did Invasion of Iraq Worsen Terror Threat to U.S.?; Oprah Winfrey Speaks Out on Presidential Politics
Aired September 25, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, Iraq ammunition, Democrats seizing on new evidence that the war is making the terror threat worse. It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington where the Bush administration is arguing that America is safer.
Also this hour, Bill Clinton lashing out, Hillary Rodham Clinton compared to the devil, and new questions being raised about their efforts to reach out to conservative critics.
And Oprah Winfrey says she doesn't want to be president, but she says she knows someone who'd be great for the job. Could this be the start of a new campaign?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Thanks Lou. Tonight, a question that hits at the heart of President Bush's defense of the Iraq war, and a Democrat's criticism of it. Is America safer from terrorists since the invasion of Iraq three years ago? A newly leaked portion of an intelligence report has the Bush administration very much on the defensive. And it has some Democrats chomping at the bit six weeks before Election Day.
Let's begin with our justice correspondent Kelli Arena -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, officials say the report is comprehensive, covering global trends in terrorism but the leaked portion only had to do with the war in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): It is the most authoritative assessment of the terrorism threat and according to officials concludes the war in Iraq has only made things worse. Ellen Laipson used to help prepare national intelligence estimates.
ELLEN LAIPSON, STIMSON CENTER: The judgment itself seems pretty straightforward to me and I think would not come as a surprise to many people who have been watching the violence in Iraq.
ARENA: Officials familiar with the report say it discusses how Iraq is now the primary training ground for Islamic extremists. The fear is those terrorists could then return to their home countries to carry out attacks there but the administration says the leaked portions of this secret report don't present a complete picture.
DAN BARTLETT, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: It doesn't make any final judgments to say that America is less safer now because of this. It is just saying that they used it to use as a recruitment tool, which we shouldn't be surprised about.
ARENA: The estimate put together by 16 intelligence agencies and covers a wide range of issues from military to economic to political. It's a summation of viewpoints and a best guess forecast of things to come. Iraq would have been just one of many issues covered.
LAIPSON: Remember, an estimate doesn't boil down to one sentence. It may be a series of as many as five, six, seven major key findings and this would have been one of those findings.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: There are calls to declassify the report so the American people can see the context for themselves. Senator Pat Roberts, the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, says that he is negotiating a release with the director of national intelligence and he hopes to have a resolution soon, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Kelli thanks very much.
Now to Capitol Hill where Democrats renewed their direct aim today at the Bush administration's Iraq policy. And they brought in some retired U.S. military officers for reinforcement.
Here's our congressional correspondent Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Senate Democrats already had on their books today a forum with top retired military officers to look back on Iraq and what they call Bush administration mistakes, reports of a new intelligence estimate gave them fresh ammunition to make the case those mistakes are continuing and with dangerous repercussions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Top retired military men side by side on Capitol Hill with scathing firsthand accounts of how the president's team planned and prosecuted Iraq.
MAJ. GEN. JOHN BATISTE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Secretary Rumsfeld's dismal strategic decisions resulted in the unnecessary deaths of American service men and women, our allies and the good people of Iraq.
MAJ. GEN. PAUL EATON, U.S. ARMY (RET.): We are fighting an insurgency, a distributed low tech high concept war that demands greater numbers of ground forces not fewer. Mr. Rumsfeld won't acknowledge this fact. BASH: Democrats seized on what they consider an election year gift. Reports of an intelligence assessment that Iraq is growing more terrorism hoping to undermine the Republicans' claim they make Americans safer.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: Far from being the central front in the war on terrorism as President Bush describes it, Iraq has become the central reason terror is on the rise five years after 9/11.
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I see a world where there's going to be years and years, decades, of the repercussions of the mistakes that we made and for the reasons that we made them, the moral dimension of the reasons we made them.
BASH: In a sense this was pure political theater. Two retired generals and a colonel who've already called for Rumsfeld to be fired invited by Senate Democrats who don't have the power to call an official hearing but tried to make it look like one.
VOICE OF SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), ND: Does it surprise you that we have been told repeatedly over several years now that the commanders have not asked for more troops?
BATISTE: It's not a surprise at all. The whole thing is absolutely disingenuous.
BASH: Republicans said it was the Democrats being disingenuous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is really nothing more than a political stunt and grandstanding. And, asking witnesses that really don't represent an impartial or all points of view.
SEN CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I hope that this hearing will be a wake-up call to our other colleagues in the Congress.
BASH: Democratic sources acknowledge this is a message designed to rally their base, to see if they control Congress, they'll ask the tough questions that Republicans won't.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Top Senate Democrats and the Republican chairman of the Intelligence Committee urged the administration to declassify the controversial Iraq report. Each side claiming the full document will help make their political case to voters that Iraq is or is not making them more safe -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Dana, thanks very much.
And tonight the Bush White House says the leaked portion of that classified intelligence report doesn't tell the full story about Iraq and the war on terror. I spoke with the president's homeland security adviser, Frances Townsend, and I asked her if the widely reported headline of the report that Iraq has made the terror threat worse is accurate. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANCES TOWNSEND, WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: No, I mean, it takes -- what this does is takes a single paragraph out of a more than 35-page report and blows it out of context. This is a report, Wolf, that's on global trends in terrorism over the next five years. Does it mention the jihad in Iraq is being used for propaganda purposes to spread Islamic extremism? It does, but it talks about it as a single factor. What hasn't been leaked or the other factors that are talked about in the report and it makes it very difficult if we're going to observe the classification of this document to be able to engage in this dialogue with the American people.
BLITZER: But does the document specifically state, Fran Townsend, that the war in Iraq has worsened the terrorist situation for the American public?
TOWNSEND: We are certainly not safe -- we are certainly not more at risk as a result of the war in Iraq and in fact, the thing that -- if we were to leave Iraq that would make us less safe. There's no question the document does mention the jihad in Iraq as one source of propaganda. But as we know, Wolf, from the 1990's when they used Afghanistan as a propaganda tool, we know they used the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, they now use the Internet to disseminate their propaganda. There are many things that they use for propaganda purposes.
BLITZER: But I know they refer to a lot of different reasons why the terror problem is so acute right now but does it specifically state that the war in Iraq has worsened the terror situation for the United States?
TOWNSEND: It does not say that. It does not say that the war in Iraq has worsened the terror situation for the United States.
BLITZER: What does it say on that -- the connection between the war in Iraq and terrorism right now?
TOWNSEND: As I said to you, there's certainly reference in this paragraph that talks about Iraq that the Iraq jihad is one of several things that are used to spread the message of global extremism around the world. It does say that. But again, as I said to you, that is one of only several factors and I can't very well go in to the rest of them. It's very frustrating for us. I can't go into it because it's classified.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Fran Townsend, the president's homeland security adviser speaking with me.
And still ahead, a fact-check of the Iraq terror connection from our man in Baghdad, Michael Ware. You're going to want to hear what he has to say about this national intelligence estimate. That's coming up. President Bush's approval rating, by the way, is holding relatively steady in our brand new CNN poll. Forty-two percent of Americans say they approve of the way he's doing his job, but most -- that would be 55 percent -- say they disapprove. The poll shows Iraq and the war on terror are the two top issues weighing in on the minds of voters heading into the midterm elections. Once again, only six weeks away.
Let's go to Jack Cafferty. He's in New York -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Back to what you were talking about a minute ago. Some unwelcome news perhaps for President Bush and the Republicans right before the midterm elections. The national intelligence estimate says the war in Iraq has actually increased the threat of terrorist attacks here in the United States. This is part of a government's first formal report on global trends in terrorism and represents the consensus view of 16 separate spy agencies inside the federal government.
That's right, Mr. President, your own intelligence agencies are telling you the strategy isn't working in Iraq. The report says the war and the insurgency in Iraq are the main recruiting vehicles for new Islamic extremists and that there are more of them now worldwide than ever before thanks to us. That's a far different story than we're hearing from the White House.
The question is this -- is the war in Iraq increasing the terrorist threat to the United States? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you.
And coming up, Bill Clinton lashes out at critics who say he didn't do enough to catch Osama bin Laden. We're doing a fact check for you.
Plus, making friends and enemies with conservatives, Bill and Hillary Clinton's rocky relationship with the right.
Also, liquid skies, grab your shampoo and toothpaste. They can now fly with you, carry-on. But there are other rules you need to know about. We're going to tell you what you need to know before you head out to the airport.
And Oprah Winfrey on the campaign to draft her for the White House, find out now who she really wants to be president. She tells our Larry King and we're going to have a preview for that.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Former President Bill Clinton says he got closer than anyone to killing Osama bin Laden, a statement that has his critics scoffing. What exactly though are the facts? We asked our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre to weigh in with a reality check. Jamie covered the Pentagon during the Clinton administration. What did you come up with, Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, you know if it was easy to kill Osama bin Laden, he might be dead already. But President Bush claims he gave it his best shot, but was hampered by both political and practical limitations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Back in August of 1998, the U.S. military insisted publicly the 62 cruise missiles it lobbed into Afghanistan were aimed at terrorists' infrastructure. The inside word at the time was infrastructure was simply a euphemism for Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants. But after the attacks of September 11, former Clinton administration officials wanted full credit for targeting the terrorist leader.
SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NAT'L SECURITY ADVISER: I assure you they were not delivering an arrest warrant. The intent was to kill bin Laden. That's number one, overall intent was manifested in August '98.
MCINTYRE: Bin Laden escaped by hours, apparently and President Clinton claims while he failed, no one has had a better shot since.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I worked hard to try to kill him. I authorized the findings of the CIA to kill him. We contracted with people to kill him. I got closer to killing him than anybody has gotten since.
MCINTYRE: Clinton argues his efforts were undercut by partisan sniping including some critics who charged the cruise missile strike was a wag the dog stunt to divert attention from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. But Republicans dispute that arguing the failed attack drew bipartisan praise and Clinton's own FBI director, Louis Freeh, charges in his 2005 book that the U.S. lacked the political spine to put its full force behind covert attempts to get bin Laden. Former deputy CIA director for intelligence, John McLaughlin, says from his inside perspective it looked a lot different.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NAT'L SECURITY ADVISER: President Clinton did aggressively pursue Osama bin Laden. I give the Clinton administration a lot of credit for the aggressiveness with which they went after al Qaeda and bin Laden.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: President Clinton also argues that his efforts were hampered by inconclusive intelligence. The link between al Qaeda and Muslim militants in Somalia, for instance, in 1993, wasn't immediately clear and even after the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, Clinton says the law enforcement and intelligence communities couldn't agree that bin Laden was the mastermind. A conclusion, by the way, backed up by the 9/11-commission report -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jamie, thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. The often tense relationship between the Clintons and the conservative right is heating up once again with new accusations now from both sides. CNN's Mary Snow reports from New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When it comes to solving the world's problems, Bill Clinton teams up with unlikely partners like First Lady Laura Bush and media mogul Rupert Murdoch, but when "FOX News Sunday" challenged Clinton's record on terror while in office he went on the attack.
CLINTON: So you did FOX's bidding on the show. You did your last little conservative hit job on me. What I want to know is...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait a minute, sir. I'm asking a question.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think that's a legitimate question?
CLINTON: It was a perfectly legitimate question, but I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked this question of.
SNOW: While the former president lashed out at conservatives, one conservative evangelical leader targeted the other Clinton and her potential presidential run. AT a conference of church leaders, Jerry Falwell said voters feared Hillary Clinton more than the devil. CNN obtained this tape from a group monitoring these events.
JERRY FALWELL, EVANGELICAL LEADER: I certainly hope that Hillary is the candidate. She has $300 million so far. But I hope she's the candidate because nothing will energize my (constituency) like Hillary Clinton.
(LAUGHTER)
FALWELL: If Lucifer ran, he wouldn't...
(LAUGHTER)
SNOW: The Reverend Jerry Falwell told CNN the comments were tongue in cheek. A spokesman for Senator Clinton said working for someone who believes in the Golden Rule we're not going to engage in such vitriolic discourse. But it seems that a new low has been reached in demonizing political opponents.
Like her husband, Senator Hillary Clinton has teamed up with conservatives like Republican Newt Gingrich, but should she run for the White House, political observers say leftover anger from the Clinton years may be stirred up.
STU ROTHENBERG, THE ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: It is like an Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. The Clintons are the Clintons. It is the two of them and it's hard for some people, certainly many conservative Republicans, to separate the two. They see them as really the same thing representing the same things, after the same agenda and equally as enemies.
SNOW (on camera): Political observers say while Senator Clinton has improved her standing with some Republicans and conservatives, it's the core social conservatives who continue to view her as the enemy.
Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: For all the controversy surrounding Bill Clinton in and out of office, most Americans have a positive view of the former president. Our new poll shows 60 percent view the former president favorably. Thirty-seven percent say they have an unfavorable opinion of Bill Clinton.
Still to come, did President Bush do enough to catch Osama bin Laden? A 9/11 commissioner now breaking his silence right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, information you're going to want to hear.
And the president of Pakistan, he says the CIA has paid his country millions of dollars in prize money for al Qaeda operatives. We're going to go in-depth with his explosive allegations.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The president of Pakistan is hoping to prove his critics wrong when they say he's not doing enough in the war on terror and to do that, President Pervez Musharraf is dropping bombshell claims about alleged secret dealings with the United States.
Let's bring in Zain Verjee. She's following this story -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, there's new information we're getting on the war on terror from an important U.S. ally. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf's new book is hitting the shelves and it's a surprising read.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Pakistan's President is making the hard sell for his biography "In The Line Of Fire" even getting President Bush's endorsement.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In other words, buy the book is what he's saying.
VERJEE: In the 337-page book, Pervez Musharraf alleges the CIA secretly paid Pakistan millions of dollars in reward money in exchange for hundreds of al Qaeda suspects. He writes those who habitually accuse us of not doing enough in the war on terror should simply ask the CIA how much prize money it has paid to the government of Pakistan.
The CIA's official response, no comment. A former U.S. intelligence official tells CNN relationships just don't work that way. The intelligence community provides training and equipment for counter terrorism operations but the U.S. does not pay money to governments to turn over terrorist suspects. Another allegation in the book, Musharraf speculates where Osama bin laden, a Saudi himself, could be hiding.
I would assume he's moving back and forth between the Pakistan/Afghanistan border somewhere, he says. The fact that so many Saudis are in the Konar area perhaps suggests that this is where Osama bin Laden has his hideout, but we can't be sure.
Musharraf also reveals details of the interrogation of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. According to the book, al Qaeda planned to hijack planes from Eastern Europe to attack Heathrow Airport. Allegedly the signal for the hijackers would be the "fasten your seat belt" sign. That would trigger them to spring into action. All of this information, says Musharraf, was passed on to British authorities and the plot was foiled. This, he claims, is one of his country's hidden successes but without verification, it is hard to tell how much of this is true.
HUSAIN HUQQANI, BOSTON UNIVERSITY: I think that General Musharraf has definitely embellished some of the episodes General Musharraf thought would be useful for both promoting the book and promoting himself.
VERJEE: At least one of Musharraf's claims have already been knocked down. He claims in the book that after 9/11, then Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage threatened to bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age if they did not cooperate with the war on terror. Armitage flatly denies it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never said it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: In the book, President Musharraf also says he war-gamed the U.S. as an enemy after 9/11, but eventually calculated it was in Pakistan's best interest to support the U.S. in its war on terror -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you. Zain Verjee reporting.
And this note to our viewers, coming up tomorrow in our 4:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern hours right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, my special interview with the Pakistani president, Pervez Musharraf. We'll talk about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, the overall war on terror, and some apparent rifts with Washington. Again, my interview with Pervez Musharraf tomorrow right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And just ahead, the hunt for Osama bin Laden, is the al Qaeda leader sick and could his hiding spot effect whether he can survive.
And a 9/11 commissioner now breaking his silence on whether President Bush did enough to fight al Qaeda before the terror attacks in New York and Washington. This is the story you're going to hear for the first time right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you are in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, some troops in Iraq thought they would soon be coming home but now they're learning they won't be leaving all that soon. Officials say the violence in Iraq is so bad the U.S. troops must stay longer. The Pentagon says this is a routine measure.
Also, your shampoo and lotion are no longer considered deadly weapons. Federal officials now say you can carry them on board and some other toiletries, as well and you can carry them on planes beginning tomorrow. You'll also be able to carry on water you buy after you've been screened.
And what a difference a year makes. It's a super mood at the Superdome tonight in New Orleans as the Saints go marching in. It's the reopening of the Superdome for the first time since Hurricane Katrina.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
There are new questions tonight about the health of the world's most wanted terrorist. Let's bring in Brian Todd. He's watching this story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New questions, Wolf, especially after a swirl of reports this past weekend, but tonight we drill down on the most recent, most credible report about Osama bin Laden's condition.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): U.S. intelligence officials tell CNN it's remarkably difficult to confirm anything about Osama bin Laden's health. But if a source close to Saudi intelligence is correct and bin Laden has a so-called waterborne illness, experts say that could mean typhoid fever, dysentery, possibly E. coli, all potentially fatal but also recoverable.
That same Saudi source says bin Laden may be hiding somewhere at high altitude, a mountainous area thousands of feet up from sea level. If that's in northern Pakistan or somewhere in the Waziristan region of Pakistan, near the Afghan border, can the al Qaeda leader survive for any length of time with one of those diseases?
DR. SHMUEL SHOHAM, WASHINGTON HOSPITAL CENTER: They may have an immune response, but they've been in these conditions for a while. They may have become accustomed to those conditions. TODD: But Dr. Shmuel Shoham, an infections disease specialist at Washington Hospital Center, says bin Laden also has some disadvantages if he's come down with a waterborne illness.
SHOHAM: Just by virtue of constantly being on the run, one's immune system may be weakened by the physiological stress of being on the lam.
TODD: Or the lack of access to antibiotics or hospital treatment, according to Dr. Shohan. Another possible complication, terrorism experts cite a claim by bin Laden and others close to him that he suffered a significant physical setback long ago at the hands of Soviet forces.
PAUL SRUICKSHANK, NYU CTR. ON LAW AND SECURITY: Ever since bin Laden suffered a serious gas attack in the late 1980's in Afghanistan, he's had serious health problems arising from that. It seems he's had very low blood pressure, he's had acute dehydration, he's had chronic back pain, he's had very severe problems with his voice.
TODD: Experts say if that gas attack affected bin Laden's kidneys or bone marrow, his immune system could be damaged, making a recovery more difficult.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Some important signals to consider here. No taped messages from bin Laden on the fifth anniversary of September 11th, no videotape of him in almost two years. But terrorism experts say these reports about his health may well inspire him to put out another tape sometime soon. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you -- Brian Todd, reporting.
And as we reported, the former President Bill Clinton says he came closer to getting bin Laden than anyone has since. The 9/11 Commission interviewed both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney about the hunt for bin Laden. And now the former 9/11 commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste, a Democrat, is breaking his silence about that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Richard, thanks very much for coming in.
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Good seeing you.
BLITZER: All right. You, in your questioning in your investigation, when you were a member of this commission, specifically asked President Bush about efforts after he was inaugurated on January 20, 2001, until 9/11, eight months later, what he and his administration were doing to kill bin Laden, because by then it was certified, it was authorized. It was, in fact, confirmed that al Qaeda was responsible for the attack on the USS Cole in December of 2000. BEN-VENISTE: It's true, Wolf, we had the opportunity to interview President Bush, along with the vice president, and we spent a few hours doing that in the Oval Office. And one of the questions we had and I specifically had was why President Bush did not respond to the Cole attack. And what he told me was that he did not want to launch a cruise missile attack against bin Laden for fear of missing him and bombing the rubble.
And then I asked him, "Well, what about the Taliban?" The United States had warned the Taliban, indeed threatened the Taliban on at least three occasions, all of which is set out in our 9/11 Commission final report, that if bin Laden, who had refuge in Afghanistan, were to strike against U.S. interests then we would respond against the Taliban.
BLITZER: Now, that was warnings during the Clinton administration...
BEN-VENISTE: That's correct.
BLITZER: ... the final years of the Clinton administration.
BEN-VENISTE: That's correct.
BLITZER: So you the asked the president in the Oval Office -- and the vice president -- why didn't you go after the Taliban in those eight months before 9/11 after he was president. What did he say?
BEN-VENISTE: Well, now that it was established that al Qaeda was responsible for the Cole bombing and the president was briefed in January of 2001, soon after he took office, by George Tenet, head of the CIA, telling him of the finding that al Qaeda was responsible, and I said, "Well, why wouldn't you go after the Taliban in order to get them to kick bin Laden out of Afghanistan?"
Maybe, just maybe, who knows -- we don't know the answer to that question -- but maybe that could have affected the 9/11 plot.
BLITZER: What did he say?
BEN-VENISTE: He said that no one had told him that we had made that threat. And I found that very discouraging and surprising.
BLITZER: Now, I read this report, the 9/11 Commission report. This is a big, thick book. I don't see anything and I don't remember seeing anything about this exchange that you had with the president in this report.
BEN-VENISTE: Well, I had hoped that we had -- we would have made both the Clinton interview and the Bush interview a part of our report, but that was not to be. I was outvoted on that question.
BLITZER: Why?
BEN-VENISTE: I didn't have the votes. BLITZER: Well, was -- were the Republican members trying to protect the president and the vice president? Is that what your suspicion is?
BEN-VENISTE: I think the question was that there was a degree of confidentiality associated with that and that we would take from that the output that is reflected in the report, but go no further. And that until some five years' time after our work, we would keep that confidential.
I thought we would be better to make all of the information that we had available to the public and make our report as transparent as possible so that the American public could have that.
BLITZER: Now, you haven't spoken publicly about this, your interview in the Oval Office, together with the other commissioners, the president and the vice president. Why are you doing that right now?
BEN-VENISTE: Well, I think it's an important subject. The issue of the Cole is an important subject, and there has been a lot of politicization over this issue, why didn't President Clinton respond?
Well, we set forth in the report the reasons, and that is because the CIA had not given the president the conclusion that al Qaeda was responsible. That did not occur until some point in December. It was reiterated in a briefing to the -- to the new president in January.
BLITZER: Well, let me stop you for a second. If former President Clinton knew in December...
BEN-VENISTE: Right.
BLITZER: ... that the CIA and the FBI had, in his words, certified that al Qaeda was responsible, he was still president until January 20, 2001. He had a month, let's say, or at least a few weeks to respond.
Why didn't he?
BEN-VENISTE: Well, I think that was a question of whether a president who would be soon leaving office would initiate an attack against a foreign country, Afghanistan. And I think that was left up to the new administration. But strangely, in the transition there did not seem to be any great interest by the Bush administration, at least none that we found, in pursuing the question of plans which were being drawn up to attack in Afghanistan as a response to the Cole.
BLITZER: Now, as best of my recollection, when you went to the Oval Office with your other commissioners, the president and the vice president did that together. That was a joint interview.
BEN-VENISTE: At the request of the president.
BLITZER: Did the vice president say anything to you? Did he know that this warning had been given to the Taliban, who were then ruling Afghanistan, if there's another attack on the United States, we're going to go after you because you harbor al Qaeda? And there was this attack on the USS Cole.
BEN-VENISTE: The vice president did not at that point volunteer any information about the Cole.
BLITZER: So what's your -- did the president say to you -- did the president say, you know, "I made a mistake, I wish we would have done something"? What did he say when you continually -- when you pressed him? And I know you're a former prosecutor, you know how to drill, try to press a point.
BEN-VENISTE: Well, the president made a humorous remark about the fact that -- asking me whether I had ever lost an argument, and I reminded him that -- or I informed him that I, too, had two daughters. And so we passed that.
He made his statement about the state of his knowledge, and I accepted that as a given, although I was surprised considering the number of people who continued on, including Richard Clarke. So that information was there and available, but the question of why we did not respond to the Cole, I think it was an important lapse, quite frankly.
I think that we would have sent a message to the Taliban and we would have sent a message to al Qaeda. It could have conceivably -- I don't know the answer to this, but conceivably it could have had an affect on whether Sheikh Mullah and -- Omar.
BLITZER: Mullah Mohammed Omar, the leader of the Taliban.
BEN-VENISTE: Omar, right -- would have continued to harbor bin Laden and al Qaeda in their country.
BLITZER: It's such a fascinating aspect of this whole issue. It's surprising to me that none of this made it into the final report, but that's a question for another day.
BEN-VENISTE: Well, some of it did.
BLITZER: But the -- but the -- but the specific references to the interview in the Oval Office.
BEN-VENISTE: That's correct, but the threats that were conveyed to the Taliban government in Afghanistan are reflected in our report.
BLITZER: Well, thanks very much, Richard Ben-Veniste, for coming in.
BEN-VENISTE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we asked the White House to respond to Ben- Veniste's comments and the deputy White House spokeswoman Dana Perino gave us this statement. "The bombing was on October 12th, 2000. The president wasn't even in office." That was the statement and as far as what President Bush did do after he was in office during those eight months, the White House referred us to what Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, then the national security adviser to the president, what she testified before the 9/11 Commission.
Up ahead tonight, is the Iraq conflict hurting the war on terror? We'll go to Baghdad for inside perspective from the battle front. Michael Ware, there.
And Oprah Winfrey gets candid. Would she ever consider running for the White House? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on the top story. A super-secret report that says the war in Iraq is making America less safe. The White House say there's more to the story. But what are the conditions on the ground?
And joining us now from Baghdad, our correspondent, Michael Ware. Michael, you're very familiar now with all these reports of this new U.S. national intelligence estimate report suggesting that the fighting in Iraq over the past three-plus years have made the worldwide terrorism situation against the United States even worse. You have covered al Qaeda extensively over these three years, mostly in Iraq. Give us your perspective.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in terms of the content of the report, Wolf, it is absolutely right. The facts outlined in that document have been self evident on the ground here. At least since 2004. We saw Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader, arrive in Iraq in the summer of 2003 with the bombings of the Jordanian embassy and the U.N. headquarters.
He followed that the next summer by release of a suicide video. It was his grand declaration of arrival and at that time, it was becoming evident that this local fight was being hijacked and internationalized and coincidentally, Wolf, though the document not released until April to the committee, they first started writing it back then in 2004. Wolf?
BLITZER: Is the al Qaeda and related threats from other associated terrorist groups in Iraq today greater against the United States than it was two, three years ago?
WARE: There is absolutely no question about that. They are bigger. They are more sophisticated. They are more adept at countering the U.S. military. They're so proficient at replacing and replenishing any material or personnel that they lose either through arrest or kidnap or seizure. These guys are spreading and growing. They have hundreds, if not thousands, of new Iraqi recruits. They certainly did not have two years ago. And they did not have when Saddam ruled this country. And we're see a proliferation of these groups, like minded ones springing up and joining the cause. Wolf?
BLITZER: Are U.S. troops and U.S. officials, U.S. diplomats, government workers, contractors, are they safer in Iraq today than they were a year ago?
WARE: Oh, absolutely not. I mean, not that anyone was safe a year anyway. I mean, we look back on the days of the summer of 2003 when there was still relative freedom of movement like it was some hellion time.
I mean since then, this situation in this country has done nothing, Wolf, but deteriorate. The threat has become greater on all sides, from a variety of directions. Al Qaeda, the local insurgency, the militias. The death squads buried within this government, to Iranian influence. All of it has just spiralled deeper and deeper out of control, adding to the risk to every single American here. And indirectly, ultimately, leading to a greater threat against Americans across the world, Wolf.
BLITZER: Michael Ware, our correspondent in Baghdad. Good luck over there, be careful.
WARE: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: And up ahead, a movement to get Oprah Winfrey to run for president but the talk show host has somebody else in mind. We'll tell you who that is.
And it's a verbal smackdown that everybody's talking about. But did former President Bill Clinton lose his cool or boost his popular appeal? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: When Oprah Winfrey talks, it's safe to say a lot of people listen and now she's telling CNN's Larry King who just might be her pick for president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: And any comment on this movement to make you president?
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Is there a movement?
L. KING: This guy's got a movement.
WINFREY: I don't know if that's a movement or not.
L. KING: He's got a website --
WINFREY: You know what I would say to him, I would say, take your energy and put it in Barack Obama. That's what I would say.
L. KING: Is that your favorite?
WINFREY: That would be my favorite guy. I'm going to -- I tried to call this guy, Mr. Mann, the other day.
(CROSS TALK) WINFREY: In Kansas City, because my attorneys had sent him a letter, and they should not have sent that letter. You know --
L. KING: You can do whatever you want.
WINFREY: You know how attorneys are, they just love cease and desist.
(CROSS TALK)
WINFREY: And I didn't appreciate that my attorneys did that.
L. KING: Are you still an Illinoisan?
WINFREY: Yes.
L. KING: So even though you have a home in California --
WINFREY: Yes, I'm very much an Illinoisan --
L. KING: Senator Obama is your senator.
WINFREY: He is my senator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And you can hear much more from Oprah Winfrey tonight on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE." That airs 9:00 p.m. Eastern. You're going to want to see that.
Jack Cafferty's got "The Cafferty File." Jack?
CAFFERTY: Who are all those other people?
BLITZER: Oprah's friends.
CAFFERTY: Oh, OK.
The question is, is the war in Iraq increasing the terrorist threat to the United States? Perhaps you heard Michael Ware's answer to that question from Baghdad a few minutes ago.
Marco in California: "The invasion of Iraq was a mistake from the get go. The invasion and the Bush administration have made the world a more dangerous place, not a safer place."
Tom in Clarksville, Tennessee: "Name one direct threat on the United States since 9/11 from terrorists, then ask yourself your question again."
Donny in Los Angeles: "I'm not sure there is less of a threat, but it seems to me that we had a little bit of a threat before we were in Iraq. We should have been more aware of it than we obviously were. It seems that Iraq has become the roach motel for terrorists. Draw them in and kill them there. Dean in Las Vegas: "Ask the question another way. Will a swarm of bees become more dangerous if you hit their hive with a stick? Only ignorant, immature little boys would intentionally stir up a potential swarm."
Mike in Tulsa: "Safer? Come on. The world has never been more against us than now. Korea, Iran, Taliban, this administration has been the perfect recruiting tool that they were waiting for."
And Billy in Sulfur Springs, Texas writes this: "To believe that the war in Iraq is not increasing the terrorist threat, one would have to believe that the Iraq war will only be a comma in the history books."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read some more of these online.
I like Michael Ware a lot, Wolf. What do you think?
BLITZER: I think a lot of people do. He's a great reporter. I'm glad we hired him away from "Time" magazine.
CAFFERTY: He's tremendous.
BLITZER: Thanks Jack, see you tomorrow.
And tracking all of our top political stories online, along with the results of today's political poll, let's bring in our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, a new tool for you to keep track of all the top political stories online, too. This is CNN's new "Political Ticker" and just posted in the last hour. We have a report from our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel about top House Democrats calling for hearings on the national intelligence estimate.
This is a constantly updating hub of news and information throughout the day from CNN correspondents and producers. You can get it delivered to your inbox twice a day. Just send us an e-mail at politicalticker@CNN.com.
Again, you can go to the Web site, CNN.com/ticker to get the news for yourself and we had a quick vote earlier today. We asked, how do you feel about Congress' record this year? Are you satisfied or not satisfied? We had more than 100,000 people weighing in with their opinion. And we had five percent satisfied and overwhelming majority, Wolf, not satisfied, 95 percent. So those are the results in the quick poll for today.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks, Jacki. Why am I not surprised?
Let's check in with Paula to see what's coming up right at the top of the hour. Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. For those of you counting out there, that will be about six minutes from now, our in-depth look at the leaked intelligence report and whether the Iraq war may be making global terrorism worse.
Also, my in-depth talk with former New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey. A top story panel will look at how many other married men are actually gay but afraid to tell anyone. We'll talking to a woman, Wolf, who was in a 31-year marriage and then was faced with the same reality as Jim McGreevey's wife. Should be pretty interesting, all that coming up at the top of the hour.
BLITZER: We'll be watching, Paula, thank you very much.
And still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM here, wag the finger? Bill Clinton pulled it out again. Jeanne Moos is on the story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: From Washington to Hollywood, former President Bill Clinton's spirited interview on "FOX News Sunday" has people buzzing. CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Technically Bill Clinton's page never actually got purple, but he did seem to boil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Took off the gloves.
DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: The kind of smack down with FOX News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. He looked like he was going to kick some (EXPLETIVE DELETED.)
MOOS: At least they never had to bleep the former president.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You did FOX's bidding on this show. You did your nice little conservative hit job on me.
MOOS: But it was Bill Clinton doing the hitting, or at least the jabbing at FOX's Chris Wallace.
CLINTON: I want to know how many people of the Bush administration you asked this question of.
MOOS: it was the talk of the tube from YouTube to Imus.
DON IMUS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Could have been in a barn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Wallace should have smacked him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Chris had any (EXPLETIVE DELETED), he would have said just keep your hands to yourself there powder puff.
MOOS: And it was all because Chris Wallace questioned whether Bill Clinton had done enough to get Osama bin Laden.
CLINTON: No. Because I didn't get him.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Right.
CLINTON: But I tried. That's the difference in me and some.
MOOS (on camera): Did you think he was acting or really mad?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh no, I think he was mad and I think he was justified.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill Clinton, of course he's acting. They're all actors.
MOOS (voice-over): It didn't take long for comedians to act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FOX is saying my response was calculated. Well, who do you think you're dealing with Holmes? I'm the pope of charisma. I've got 70 I.Q. points on Chris Wallace.
MOOS: And then there was the smirk factor.
CLINTON: And you've got that little smirk on your face, you think you're so clever.
MOOS: Chris Wallace's own colleagues on FOX kidded him about the smirk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just don't smirk. Stop your smirking, buddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well Wallace, you're unflappable. Good job.
MOOS: And Wallace himself noted, "the president said I had a smirk. Actually, it was sheer wonder at what I was witnessing."
In addition to finger jabbing, there was finger wagging.
CLINTON: They ridicule me for trying.
MOOS (on camera): I want to take you back to the last time Bill Clinton famously wagged his finger. Remember that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: no.
CLINTON: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, right, right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which is not all he was wagging.
MOOS (voice-over): And as if all that wagging wasn't enough, writer Nora Ephron blogged on the "Huffington Post." "What surprised me most about the Clinton meltdown was that no one told him to pull up his socks."
She's right. Look at all that exposed skin for an interviewer to get under. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And with that, let's go to Paula in New York -- Paula?
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