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The Situation Room

Hostages Taken at Platte Canyon High School; Interview with Hamid Karzai; President Bush On Verge of Winning One of Two Key Pieces of Anti-Terror Legislation From Congress; Terrell Owens Says He's Not Depressed and Not Trying to Commit Suicide; Republicans Choose Minneapolis To Host 2008 Convention

Aired September 27, 2006 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, John and Carol.
To our viewers, you're in the SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.

Happening now, that developing story we're following in Colorado. We'll have the latest on a school under siege.

Plus, there's breaking news here in Washington. Critical allies in the war on terror at serious odds. And in the middle of a very public feud, President Bush brings the Pakistani and Afghan leaders together tonight at the White House, but can he play peacemaker?

It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington, where I just sat down for an exclusive interview with the Afghan President Hamid Karzai to talk about that, and whether he is turning a blind eye to the resurgent Taliban. This interview coming up.

Also this hour, are Americans feeling pumped up about the economy now that gas prices are down? We have some brand new poll numbers that could be fuel in the battle for control of the U.S. Congress.

And the Maryland Senate race is going to the dogs. Puppies are the props of choice in this high-stakes contest. Will voters remember the candidates, or the canines?

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the SITUATION ROOM.

We begin this hour with the developing story we've been following in Colorado, where a school hostage situation is unfolding right now. This is happening in Bailey, Colorado. That's about 40 miles southwest of Denver. Officials there are telling us about an adult gunman, claiming to have a bomb, is holding at least four hostages inside Platte Canyon High School.

One hostage, described as a young girl, has been released. We're told there were shots fired as the crisis began, and that prompted the evacuation of hundreds of students from the high school and an adjoining middle school. There are no reports of any injuries, at least not right now.

Let's bring in Zain Verjee. She's joining us. She's following this story as well.

What else do we know, Zain?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: We're just looking at these pictures coming in to us, Wolf, what seems like an orderly situation on the ground. People are being evacuated. We're looking at some of the aerial pictures that coming to us from KMGH there. People are being evacuated. As I said, it seems orderly. They're going on to the school buses, but are on location, as you said.

We have no reports of any injuries. We're going to try and bring you more details when we get them. The gunman, we understand, has been holed up and is isolated now, we understand, in the school. And a bomb squad and a SWAT team are on the scene trying to figure out exactly what to do.

We'll bring you more details when we get it. Wolf, we can see there the cars there are ready and poised, the SWAT team, the bomb squad and other officials, on the ground trying to get the situation under control. And it does seem like a fairly orderly evacuation.

BLITZER: We see these children going to these school buses in a very orderly manner. That's encouraging in and of itself.

CNN security analyst Mike Brooks is joining us on the phone.

Mike, a lot of people see these images, see these pictures. Colorado, not far from Denver. And what does it recall? Columbine, but there are some significant differences, aren't there?

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: There are some big differences in this, Wolf.

You know, this school is about 45 minutes from Columbine. But in the Columbine situation, it was a very fluid situation when officers were first arriving. It was just a madhouse when they got there, with the gunmen going from room to room in the hallways. Two gunmen in the school.

This particular situation, apparently the gunman is in one particular classroom. Also the officers were able to get everyone evacuated from these two schools, where at Columbine, as they were going through, they were finding students hiding, there were students popping up all the time as they were going through. It just made for a very, very dangerous situation.

This also is a very dangerous situation, but seems to be a little bit different, and looks like things are, at least outside, appear to be under control. But on the inside, we still have a gunman, possibly with a bomb, with at least four hostages inside of a classroom.

BLITZER: And there is no indications yet who this suspect might be, this alleged gunman?

BROOKS: It's supposed to be -- my sources are telling me it's an adult male. That's all they know right now. And that's why in the early stages of a situation like this, Wolf, investigators will try to get the students who were in the school aside, and sit down and interview them, see exactly what they said, what they saw, what they heard, to try to develop, you know, who this guy is.

They also had to get to the school somehow, Wolf. And, you know, I'm sure that the Jefferson County and Park County are going through the parking lot, trying to find out if all of the cars in that parking lot belong to students. And also possibly with an explosive-sniffing dog, because if he did bring a bomb in that car, there will be some residue that maybe the dog might be able to hit on.

BLITZER: And this is happening about 40 miles southwest of Denver in Bailey, Jefferson County. No reports -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Mike -- no reports of any injuries whatsoever, at least not now.

BROOKS: No reports as of yet. My sources say that they hadn't heard of any injuries, there was at least one initial shot fired inside of the classroom, but no reports of any injuries as of yet, Wolf.

BLITZER: Stand by, Mike. Tom Foreman, our correspondent, spent many, many years out in Colorado.

Tom, you covered Columbine, so you know these kinds of situations. God forbid, we hoping, certainly, it doesn't turn out to be that. But certainly, it brings back memories.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, it's actually sort of chilling how much it looks like Columbine from the outside.

This is about 45 minutes from where Columbine was. In fact, interesting enough, to get to Bailey -- I've been there many times, I lived about four miles away from Columbine High School -- one of the ways you would go, to Bailey, would actually take you up the canyon past the home of one of the Columbine shooters, interestingly enough.

But that said, this is in many ways very different from Columbine. This is a much smaller community than Littleton is. It is a much smaller school, overall when you look at the cluster of activity around it. This road in and out there really is the one big highway that you go in and out of Bailey on. This time of year, a lot of year tourists going up there to see aspen trees, that sort of thing.

And it sounds like, just from the beginning, a much more controlled situation, as much as these things can be. The police at Columbine did face a chaotic situation. They knew that there were fatalities from quite early on, and they did not know how many gunmen there were. And they had really no idea where they were. And there was also the threat of bombs.

In Columbine, as you may recall, the bombs turned out to be very, very poorly made, almost play bombs, in the sense that they were just so poorly made. There was very little hope they would have done what these young kids thought they would do when they made them. But law people, as we know, must take very seriously the idea that there's any kind of bomb. They must treat it as if it is a live bomb. And if there is such a thing, the same way they must treat anything that looks like a gun as if it is a real gun. And those are lessons that the lawmen in Colorado, of all stripes, learned very, very well and have drilled very well on since Columbine.

So the fact is this is happening in an area where there is a lot of expertise to look at it. And it's happening geographically in an area where those people are right next to it. Only 40, 30 minutes away, something like that.

BLITZER: And what we're seeing is the evacuation, a very orderly evacuation. Hundreds of students from the Platte Canyon High School, as well as an adjoining middle school.

I'm sure that there are a lot of frightened parents, a lot of frightened kids right now. You remember those moments at Columbine.

FOREMAN: Yes, sure, Wolf.

And I'll tell you, the evacuation at Columbine, as you remember, didn't look anything like this. We had friends in Columbine High School who talked about hiding under desks, about the enormous confusion that lasted for a long time. And even the fear then that many people had about whether they could run out of the school, because they didn't know where the gunmen were.

You remember the extraordinary images of the young Patrick Ireland (ph), the young man who came out of the window of that school, trying to escape. That went on for a long time, it seemed like forever, that day, when this was happening. It went on for several hours because the school was big and they couldn't pin down where it was happening.

This situation, based on what we see of the evacuation and what we know of what's going on, in many ways seems fundamentally different. And in other ways, it's different as well. From all the school shootings I've covered, most of them seem to have been characterized by an early spate of explosive shooting up front, not to be too graphic about it. But that seems to be what happens. And then it might devolve down into a hostage situation.

That also makes this different. What we're talking about now, from what we hear, what we hear, is one shot having been fired. We don't know of anybody being hurt at this point. So in that way, certainly law people there, for all of their experience at looking at these school situations, are dealing much more with a hostage situation than some of the situations they've had before.

The fact is at Columbine, they had to assume they had a hostage situation, because there were so many kids, so many teachers still in the school, and they didn't know where the gunmen were. Quite different from saying, we know -- like we hope they do in this case -- what room they're in. We have an idea of how many people are in there and we have an idea that the rooms around them are empty except for law people.

BLITZER: And we're told one of the hostages has been released. She's described as a young girl. Once again as we look at these pictures coming in from Bailey County, from this Flat Canyon High School, as well as an adjoining middle school. The authorities are describing an adult gunman claiming to have a bomb, holding these kids apparently hostage. We don't know how many are being held, but we have been told that there were some shots that were fired at the beginning of this crisis.

Mike Brooks, our security analyst, is still on the phone with us. Mike, as you look -- and we get these very preliminary sketchy indications that we're showing our viewers, the aerial photography we're getting in from our various affiliates out near Denver. This is not far away from Denver, Jefferson County, in Bailey, Colorado. As we take a look at all of this unfold, what goes through your mind?

BROOKS: I tell you Wolf, you know, you think about Columbine and whenever something happens at a school, Wolf, you think of Columbine. But the officers all over this country have gone through training specifically for dealing with incidents like this inside of schools.

Many schools you go to nowadays, you'll see numbers on the doors as you ride around the outside of a school. That all has come about from the training post Columbine. And law enforcement knows how to handle situations like this now. They have what they call for the first arriving officers, the first three to five arriving officers is the active shooter team. They can actually take action and go inside the school and help to get everyone evacuated, and help to actually contain the situation and give it initial report.

And this particular situation seems to be confined to one specific classroom that this gunman went to. And hopefully by now, Jefferson County, who is coming to the scene to assist the Park County authorities -- Bailey is located actually in Park County, the Jefferson SWAT team, their tactical assets along with their negotiators were en route there, and in fact the FBI's negotiation team out of Denver was on stand-by in case they were also needed.

But hopefully by now, they've made some contact with the person inside of the -- that's holding the hostages, and hopefully they'll be able to develop a dialogue with this person while the investigators are outside the school, are talking to the students and trying to find out a little bit more about who this person is and why he came to the school today.

BLITZER: And presumably that young girl who was a hostage who has been released will be able to provide some important information. Mike, stand by. I want all of our reporters to stand by. We're going to stay on top of this breaking news story out of Colorado where there is a serious incident under way right now. We'll watch this story together with you.

There's other breaking news we're watching as well, including a big meeting coming up in the next few hours over at the White House between President Bush and two key U.S. allies in the war on terror: the Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, the Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

I just spoke with Hamid Karzai and he is reacting very strongly to the accusations made yesterday here in THE SITUATION ROOM by President Musharraf, that Hamid Karzai is turning a blind eye to events in Afghanistan and is acting like an ostrich. Hamid Karzai's strong reaction in my exclusive interview. All that coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Breaking news coming out of Colorado, about 40 miles from Denver. There is a serious incident under way right now in two adjoining schools, a high school as well as a middle school. Let's bring in Zain Verjee, she's watching this story for us. What do we know right now, Zain?

VERJEE: Wolf, we know that an adult gunman is holding hostages at a school here in Bailey, Colorado. The gunman apparently fired shots and forced an evacuation of the school, as well as an adjacent one. Officials saying that the gunman has a bomb. We're also hearing that the gunman is isolated, that he could just be in one classroom. The official on the ground had also said that one hostage, a young girl, had been released. Four others are being held.

The sheriff's office said that they're essentially dealing now with a hostage situation. We really didn't get a lot more detail from the sheriff. We don't have any information on injuries. We know that a bomb squad and a SWAT team are on the scene and presumably, too, a negotiating team to make contact with the adult gunman and to engage presumably in a dialogue. The students, though, have been evacuated. We see one school bus here going down at the main highway. This is a main road that goes in and out of Bailey, Colorado.

Hundreds of students were evacuated. It is still a dangerous situation, but it appears as though the evacuations are under control. There is still though a gunman in the classroom, in the school with a bomb. Explosives-sniffing dogs presumably, too are on the scene, as our security analyst told us. Hostages are being held. We don't know who this adult male is but we'll bring you more information when we get it.

BLITZER: All right, Zain. Thanks very much. We'll stay on top of this story and not leave it for very long.

But there is other important news we're watching, including breaking news here in Washington where there is a very public rift under way between two key U.S. allies in the war on terror. At stake, capturing Osama bin Laden and the future of Afghanistan. In just a few hours President Bush will host an extraordinary meeting of the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan, Hamid Karzai and Pervez Musharraf.

But there are very public disagreements and the tensions in their alliance already on display right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Yesterday I interviewed the Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf. He spent much of that interview blaming Afghan President Karzai for the security problems in Afghanistan spilling over into Pakistan.

And it got very personal with Musharraf suggesting Karzai is turning a blind eye, like an ostrich, in his words. We invited President Karzai to respond to President Musharraf's charges. As you'll see in this exclusive interview recorded only within the past two hours, Karzai does not mince words.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now is the president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai. Mr. President, welcome to Washington.

HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN: Good to be here with you.

BLITZER: I'm glad you've come for this exclusive interview just before you go over to the White House for this big dinner tonight with President Bush and President Musharraf.

Yesterday at this time I spoke with President Musharraf and as you probably know, he had some rather unkind words to say about you.

For example, I want to play this excerpt from the interview we did yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN: He is not oblivious. He knows everything but he is purposely denying -- turning a blind eye like an ostrich. He doesn't want to tell the world what is the facts for his own personal reasons. This is what I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. He says you're "turning a blind eye like an ostrich" because you don't want to confront the facts of what is happening in your country, in Afghanistan. Your response?

KARZAI: Yes. He is right to say that I know the facts. I indeed know the facts, but I also know a lot of facts in Pakistan. And that's why I am pleading with President Musharraf that, for the sake of security for all of us and for our allies, it is extremely important to place serious attention and take action against some of the places called madrassas that are not madrassas, but are training extremists full of hatred for the rest of the world.

BLITZER: Those are religious -- madrassas are religious schools in Pakistan.

KARZAI: Religious school in Pakistan.

BLITZER: And what is your charge, that President Musharraf is what, not doing enough to stop that religious training?

KARZAI: Not doing enough at all and I want all of us to take more action. There are things that we have to do in Afghanistan. He is right. I am very much aware of what is going on in Afghanistan. We are a state that was weakened by years of destruction and war and interference. And much of those destruction and wars and interference coming from the neighbors of Afghanistan, from the Soviet Union to other neighbors of Afghanistan.

We will take time to build ourselves. That is why the international community is there with us, helping us to build our army, our schools, our hospitals, our democracy and now our police.

BLITZER: All right, but he says you are like an ostrich. That is a very, very strong assertion, "turning a blind eye like an ostrich." For your own domestic, political reasons you are refusing to deal with what he says is the root cause of this explosion of terrorism in Afghanistan and spilling over into Pakistan, your failure to do what you should be doing.

KARZAI: He has said that before as well. Afghanistan is doing all it can together with the international community. We are losing people every day. We are losing international community soldiers every day. We are losing American lives every day. We are losing Canadians, the British and Afghans every day.

Now, if on the one hand the Afghan people are asking for international help, if on the one hand Afghan people are asking for more schools, better education, more help, they cannot be ones to destroy themselves. Somebody else must be doing it and that someone else is the sanctuary in Pakistan to terrorists.

BLITZER: All right. Listen to this other assertion.

KARZAI: That sanctuary has to go.

BLITZER: Listen to this other assertion he made in the interview I did with him yesterday. Here is, once again, President Musharraf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSHARRAF: I think at the moment there is total misunderstanding of the environment by Afghanistan and Karzai, and I know Karzai knows the environment, but he is denying these realities and putting all -- he is finding it more convenient to throw the blame on Pakistan than Mullah Omar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Now you suggested that Mullah Muhammad Omar, the leader of the Taliban in exile is hiding someplace in Pakistan, some suggestion in Quetta in Pakistan. He says that is absolutely not true. He is in Afghanistan.

KARZAI: Mr. Blitzer, the information that we have in Afghanistan -- Mullah Omar went, right around the time of the anti-terror operation in October of 2001, away from Afghanistan. And ever since, he has been in Pakistan, and in Quetta. That is where he is.

Now, we're not trying to blame Pakistan. We're not trying to blame President Musharraf. We are simply seeking cooperation.

BLITZER: He says that the CIA is operating with the Pakistani intelligence services in Quetta right now, and they haven't been able to find Mullah Mohammed Omar there.

KARZAI: Well, they're trying very hard to find him. If somebody's trying to hide him from the CIA, then it will be luck and very hard work and years for the CIA to find him. So that's why we are asking for more cooperation from our brothers in Pakistan, for their good, for our good, for the good of the rest of the world. After all, terrorism and extremism is hurting them as well. It hurts us both.

Over the years, they were trained in Pakistan at those madrassas. They were given resources in Pakistan. They were brought up through some help from the establishment of Pakistan in the past 30 years, as we were fighting the Soviets and subsequent to that.

BLITZER: And let me just get this straight, Mr. President. You're blaming Pakistan for most of the problems that have developed recently in Afghanistan?

KARZAI: I'm not blaming them for all of the problems. I'm not blaming, actually, at all. My stance is different, from the point of view of an Afghan. We're trying to have a good relationship with Pakistan. Pakistan is benefiting from the presence of the United States and the rest of the international community in Afghanistan.

Pakistan's trade to Afghanistan, exports to Afghanistan, at the time of the Taliban -- who were their friends, their buddies, their clients -- was only $25 million. Today, Pakistan's exports to Afghanistan stand at $1.3 billion.

Therefore, we are trying to tell them that what they may perceive as in their interest -- that is, the use of extremism within their country and outside of their country as an instrument of policy -- is not good for them. It is causing hurt to the rest of us in the international community.

BLITZER: Is President Musharraf like an ostrich, turning a blind eye to these problems in Pakistan that you're referring to?

KARZAI: No, I wouldn't say that. He is a capable person. He may not be turning a blind eye to all of the things, but he told me in Kabul, he said, President Karzai, don't doubt my intentions. Doubt my capabilities.

Now, if it is a question of capabilities, we'll have to help him raise those capabilities. The United States is there to help him raise those capabilities. The rest of our allies are there to raise these capabilities. Alongside raising capabilities, we'd also like to have a bit more sincerity for action.

BLITZER: Because when I asked him, yesterday, Why not let the U.S., NATO, others, come into Pakistan and help you find al Qaeda, find the Taliban, as they are in Afghanistan, listen to his response. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSHARRAF: Please don't compare Pakistan with Afghanistan. Pakistan is a very, very stable country. We have a strong government, we have a strong military, we have a strong intelligence system. And everything in Afghanistan had broken down, so how can you compare the two?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARZAI: Well, he's right. Pakistan is more stable in certain aspects than Afghanistan is. Pakistan has not had the kind of suffering that we have had. Pakistan has not had interventions or invasions, like we have had. Afghanistan is building up. That's true.

There are more institutional capabilities in Pakistan than we have. But we have more of a national capability. We are more of an older, historical nation with a lot of background in that part of the world.

Pakistan has difficulties as well. You must have heard of the Baluchi problems that they had some time back, and the Pashtun problem there in Pakistan with them asking for their rights, both the Pashtuns and the Baluchis in Pakistan. They have those problems in Pakistan and we sympathize with their problems.

BLITZER: Well, let me press you on this point. This deal that he worked out with the tribal elders in -- along the borders with Afghanistan in Waziristan. Is this, as he says, an effort to destroy and defeat al Qaeda and the Taliban or is it, as some have suggested, including some of your associates, that this is really an opportunity to give amnesty to the Taliban?

KARZAI: President Musharraf, when he was in Kabul, explained this to me that this was a deal good for all of us, that this deal would stop the activities of terrorists his side of the border. Now he told me in Kabul that this deal was signed with the Taliban.

BLITZER: Do you believe him?

KARZAI: Now, I'd like to expand a little here. Now they say that the deal is with some of the tribes and the Taliban, but I read the deal in detail today again before I came to this interview. The deal clearly says the deal with the Taliban and some tribal chiefs.

Today, A.P., I believe, the Associated Press or somebody from these big organizations, has said that the U.S. military in Afghanistan has said that since the deal was signed there is an increase of 300 percent of activities of attacks against all of us in Afghanistan from across the border. So at this point, it doesn't look nice. But let's give it some time. Let's see as to how it will develop.

I'm not very sure it's good for us, because the people that they have signed a deal with in Pakistan are those who have been killing the Pashtun tribal chiefs in Pakistan, are those who have been killing the secular elements in Pakistan. They have killed in the past two years 150 or more of the Pashtun tribal chiefs of Pakistan.

BLITZER: So you're not convinced this is a good deal.

KARZAI: I'm not convinced at all. It is causing a lot of trouble for the Pashtuns there.

BLITZER: And I assume that when you have dinner tonight with President Musharraf and President Bush this subject will be front and center on your agenda.

Let me read to you from the book.

KARZAI: I'm grateful that President Bush has organized this dinner for us. It is very nice of him to bring us together.

My effort is to try to bring understanding and cooperation, not to blame anybody, not to try to do anything else, but to try to have the cooperation good for all of us.

BLITZER: He says that would be fine, if only you were doing more, and, you know, doing the things that you need to do.

He writes in his book "In the Line of Fire": "A negative perception is growing that Pakistan abets and provides sanctuary to terrorists. This propaganda is linked with efforts to create anti- Pakistan sentiment in Afghanistan."

And Musharraf goes on to write, "The Afghan government needs to focus more on improving security inside its own country, instead of blaming others."

KARZAI: Well, we will definitely focus more of our efforts on security inside Afghanistan, as we build up our institutions.

Our allies are focusing more on security inside Afghanistan. We will do all of that. But we also have to do things in Pakistan to end those sanctuaries, to eliminate those sanctuaries, and to stop places who are acting in the name of religious schools, but actually training terrorists and preaching hatred to the rest of the world.

BLITZER: Here's the bottom line, from the U.S. perspective, and I'm sure from President Bush's perspective, when he hosts both of you at the White House tonight.

Between the two of you, the president of Pakistan, the president of Afghanistan, you are crucial U.S. allies in the war on terror. The United States needs your help in finding Osama bin Laden, Ayman al- Zawahiri, Mullah Mohammed Omar. And, as long as the two of you are bickering, that is undermining this cohesive joint struggle against al Qaeda and the Taliban.

What will it take for you and President Musharraf to make up and work together, instead of blaming each other for these problems? KARZAI: Good intentions, sincerity, confidence, and verification.

BLITZER: Well, are you ready to do your part?

KARZAI: Absolutely. And I will be ready to take the blame if we don't.

BLITZER: And you're ready to deal with this drug issue, which is, some are suggesting, making your country a narco state?

KARZAI: Now, that is our problem, yes.

I have never blamed anything in Pakistan for that. That is an Afghan problem. We're embarrassed because of it. And we will have to get rid of it. Some of it will be our job, law enforcement, eradication, arrest of drug dealers. Some of it will be the job of the international community, which is the provision of alternative livelihoods and economic reconstruction.

Yes, it is an Afghan problem. And we should take care of it. It's -- Afghans have to take the blame for it, indeed.

BLITZER: Mr. President, it was kind of you to spend some few -- a few moments with us. Appreciate it very much on this very hectic day. We will be watching your dinner tonight at the White House.

KARZAI: Thank you, sir. Good to talk to you. All the best.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Powerful words from Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan, this 24 hours after we heard some also powerful words from the president of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf.

Let's talk about these interviews.

Jack Cafferty is in New York.

These are crucial allies in the war on terror, and they're going into this White House, meeting with the president tonight, clearly at serious odds.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Right. And this may be partly your fault.

You might have ruined these guys' dinner tonight. They were all set to sit down with the president, have a nice steak dinner at the White House. Now there's -- they will probably show up with food tasters, thanks to these two interviews you have done.

BLITZER: Well, you know, I just ask the questions, Jack.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: I didn't tell President Musharraf to say that Hamid Karzai is like an ostrich.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: And I...

CAFFERTY: No, but you tried to get Hamid Karzai to say Pervez Musharraf was like an ostrich.

BLITZER: I...

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: I heard you do it.

BLITZER: I asked him if he...

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: ... if he agrees. And he was very diplomatic.

CAFFERTY: You know, a couple of things occur to me.

One, you know, they're talking about Islamic extremists in each other's country. Find a Middle East country that doesn't have Islamic extremists. That's breaking news. They're everywhere. They teach this stuff in Saudi Arabia -- the royal family there being good, close, personal, and business friends with the Bush family. They have schools there that teach people to hate and want to kill us. So, those kinds of things are everywhere.

Pervez Musharraf talked about his country being stable. It occurs to me one of the reasons maybe it's stable is, there aren't a bunch of outside armies running around inside the borders of Pakistan, like there have been in Afghanistan, going clear back to when the Russians invaded that country.

But, more importantly, that the cause of some of the resurgence, if you will, of the Taliban has to traced to the decision by the United States to put 150,000 troops into an invasion in Iraq. What do you think would be the problem with the Taliban if we left all those soldiers in Afghanistan? Do you think there would have been a 50 percent increase in the heroin poppy -- or the opium poppy production?

Do you think the women would be running around that country now -- reportedly, some of them are having to wear burqas again, as the Taliban begins to reassert its influence? I don't think so.

And I think both of these guys are probably reluctant to say: You know, President Bush, you're part of the problem. You decided to invade Iraq. You had the Taliban on the run. You had killed a lot of the people in al Qaeda. You had what's his name, Osama bin Laden, cornered in Tora Bora. You had these guys in your gun sights, when, all of a sudden, Afghanistan became number two on your priority list, because you wanted to run off and wage war against Saddam Hussein.

But nobody's going to say that -- except maybe me. BLITZER: Jack Cafferty said it.

You got a question for our viewers.

CAFFERTY: Well, I -- you know, we throw it out there and let them decide. They're smarter than we are anyway: Who's to blame for the deteriorating conditions in Afghanistan? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com, or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. But you better hurry up, because we only got about 20 minutes of this show left. So, we want to turn some of these answers around and read them back to you before we get off the air with the first hour.

BLITZER: I suspect...

CAFFERTY: Wolf.

BLITZER: ... a lot of our viewers are going to agree with you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: All right.

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

There's other breaking news we're following, including the incident -- you're looking at these live pictures from Bailey, Colorado, just south of Denver, Colorado. There is an incident unfolding. Hostages are being held at a high school. An adjoining middle school has been evacuated.

Security analyst Mike Brooks is joining us. He's getting some additional information.

What are we picking up, Mike?

BROOKS: Well, Wolf, I just got off the phone with a law enforcement source close to this investigation and this situation, who tells me that there apparently are now two hostages being held inside the school, both of them female.

And one of them is apparently the wife of the gunman. So, it looks like we have a different kind of situation than we originally thought with the active-shooter scenario. We now have looks -- could be a -- a domestic type situation inside one of the classrooms at the school here.

BLITZER: So, just get me -- let me just get it straight. There are two hostages, and one, we believe, is the wife of this alleged gunman; is that right?

BROOKS: That's correct.

BLITZER: And the other person -- we don't know who that other person is?

BROOKS: It is another female. Don't know who it is, if it is a student or an adult. But they believe that it is a student. BLITZER: All right. We are going to stay on top of this story, Mike. Thanks very much for updating our viewers.

And we are going to come up, after a short break, with more on the breaking news we're following at that Colorado high school. Gunshots were fired. Some students, at least originally, had been held hostage. Now we're being told by Mike Brooks two hostages, apparently one the wife of this alleged gunman.

We will follow this story for you.

Also, much more on the extraordinary public split between two crucial allies in the war on terror. We are going to go live to the White House and we will speak with our senior national correspondent John Roberts. He's watching all of this together with us.

And we will also go live to Capitol Hill, where a crucial vote in the war on terror is happening right now. We will tell you what's going on.

Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Following the breaking news out of Colorado, just south of Denver, at a high school -- these are pictures you're seeing, courtesy our affiliate KMGH.

You see these students. They are being evacuated from the high school and an adjoining middle school. We are told that there is a gunman holding two individuals hostage.

Mike Brooks, our security analyst, reporting that one of the hostages apparently the wife of this alleged gunman, a female, the other hostage -- we're following the story for you. As soon as we get more information, we will tell you what's going on. Looks, potentially, at least, some sort of domestic dispute. But, of course, with all these kids, hundreds of kids at a high school and an adjoining middle school involved, could be serious.

We have been told earlier as well that shots had earlier been fired, and the alleged gunman claiming to have a bomb.

We will stay on top of this story for you.

Other news we're following here in Washington, on Capitol Hill right now, the war on terror is figuring prominently into key votes and in the ongoing election-year fight over Iraq.

Let's check in with our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel.

Andrea, the legislation that the Congress is considering on interrogations, trying terror suspects, it is happening now. What do we know? ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, after weeks of heated debate and an embarrassing rift between Senate Republicans and the White House, President Bush is on the verge of winning one of two key pieces of anti-terror legislation from this Congress.

Right now, on the floor of the House, they are voting on that bill to create military tribunals to put terror suspects on trial. And it is expected to win overwhelming support from the House.

Meanwhile, over in the Senate, we have, after much to-ing and fro-ing, the two sides have agreed to begin -- and they're in the midst of it right now -- about a dozen hours of debate on five amendments, four offered by Democrats, one by Pennsylvania Republican Arlen Specter, who wants to ensure that terror suspects have the right to appeal, or at least find out why they have been detained.

Most, if not all, of these amendments are expected to fail. And the vote in the Senate, Wolf, could happen as soon as tonight, but perhaps not until tomorrow -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right.

And all of this is happening the day after the Bush administration released a summary of that highly classified national intelligence estimate. There's more political bickering on that, isn't there?

KOPPEL: Oh, there certainly is.

In fact, for the third day in a row, Democrats went on the attack. The chairmen of both the -- the Senate and the House Congressional Campaign Committees even called a press conference today to again really put Republicans on the spot and put a question to them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Are you going to stand by the non-partisan, non-political intelligence estimates that came out of 16 agencies? Or are you going to be a rubber stamp for George Bush, and when he says black is white, you go, indeed, it is?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Now, Democrats are expression optimism that the NIE's findings could even win them some more votes in November, as they seek to tie Republicans who continue to support U.S. policy in Iraq with President Bush.

This ad that you are looking at right now has only just begun running today in Connecticut in a key race there -- the Democratic challenger targeting the Republican incumbent, Nancy Johnson, in that race.

But Republicans, Wolf, aren't giving any ground either. Today, the House majority leader came back and basically said that the NIE, as he reads it, proves that they are right on track.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: This report, when you look at the entirety of it, basically supports our claim that taking on the terrorists in Iraq will in fact make America safer.

And, so, as we complete our work this week, we want to make sure that the president has the tools that he needs to take on the terrorists and to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Now, tomorrow morning, Wolf, President Bush is going to make his second visit in a month to Capitol Hill, at the invitation of House (sic) Majority Leader Bill Frist. It's going to be a closed- door meeting with Republicans over on the Senate side.

He will, as you might imagine, be pushing his version of the NIE, as well as boosting morale, ahead of November midterms -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That would be the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, as opposed to the House majority leader.

(CROSSTALK)

KOPPEL: Excuse me.

BLITZER: Just a little difference between the House and the Senate.

Andrea, excellent report. Thanks very much for that.

There is another story we're following involving a football superstar.

Let's bring back Zain Verjee. She's got an update on this -- Zain.

VERJEE: Wolf, football star Terrell Owens says that he is not depressed and he was not trying to commit suicide. The Dallas Cowboys star was rushed to the hospital yesterday when his publicist found him barely conscious.

At a news conference today, Owens suggested he had a reaction to a combination of pain pills and nutritional supplements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRELL OWENS, DALLAS COWBOYS: There was no suicide attempt. I think I went home yesterday, after I left the facility, and I took a couple pain pills. And then I had some treatment. I had a physician over treating my hand. And I think, after that, I was just kind of groggy a little bit, and I kind of took some extra pills with my supplements.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: We will bring you more information when we have it -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Zain, thanks very much.

Up next: Republicans make their choice for their 2008 presidential convention. We are going to tell you which city they chose and why it's so important.

Plus: new polls in the California governor's race. How's Arnold Schwarzenegger faring against his Democratic rival? Stay with us. We are going to update you.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: On our "Political Radar" today: The California governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, has signed bill enacting a state cap on greenhouse gas emissions, the first of its kind in the United States.

That comes as two new polls show the governor with a double-digit lead over his Democratic rival, Phil Angelides. One poll puts Schwarzenegger ahead by 10 points, the other by 17 points.

CNN has confirmed that Republicans have chosen Minneapolis to host their 2008 convention. Democrats have yet to announce where they will hold their convention. Minneapolis was on their short list, along with Denver and New York City. But they have dropped the Twin Cities for now.

Let's bring in our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider. He is joining us from Boston with more.

I guess the key question, why Minneapolis?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Republicans in Minnesota, the land of Hubert Humphrey and Walter Mondale and Paul Wellstone. The last time Minnesota voted for a Republican for president was 1972. Why do Republicans want to meet there? Because, actually, Minnesota is a highly competitive state.

True, it voted for Al Gore in 2000. But it was close. True, it voted for John Kerry in 2004, but it was close. In 2002, Minnesota elected a Republican governor and a Republican senator. The other senator is a Democrat. The state has eight House members, four Republicans and four Democrats. Republicans have a one-seat majority in the Statehouse. The state Senate is controlled by the Democrats.

And it has a long history of third parties, like, remember, former Governor Jesse Ventura. So, are there good political reasons for Republicans to meet in the land of Lake Wobegon? Yes, you betcha -- Wolf.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: You know, the Republicans met in New York City a couple of years ago, not exactly a Republican hotbed either.

Looking ahead to the Democrats' decision, what's going through the minds of these Democratic leaders right now in selecting their site for their convention?

SCHNEIDER: I think they're probably looking for a place that's highly competitive as well. That's why Denver is probably on the list.

That's a state where Democrats -- it's a Western state where Democrats have made significant gains in the last few years. Where, in most of the country, Republicans were showing big gains, in Colorado, Democrats were picking up a lot of support. They elected a Democratic senator last time.

And while there is a Republican governor, the race is very tight this time. So, they may want to try to make a breakthrough in the West, perhaps the South there. I don't know if they're considering a city in Florida or not. But they want to make a stand. Both parties want to make a stand in highly competitive states.

BLITZER: We will go wherever they decide, because we love conventions, Bill, you and I and a lot of other people.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

And, remember...

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

BLITZER: ... for constantly updated political news throughout the day, you can check in on our new CNN political ticker. It's our Web site, CNN.com/ticker. If you haven't seen it yet, you should go there. You will learn a lot .

Up next, we're following the breaking news out of Colorado, where there is a hostage incident under way right now. We will update you on what exactly is happening, as students are being evacuated from two schools.

And coming up in our next hour: Gas prices falling away from record highs only weeks ago, what impact will it have on the upcoming elections?

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: We want to update you on the breaking news out of Bailey, Colorado. That's about 40 miles or so south of Denver. There is an incident under way at a school. It involves some shots being fired, hostages being held.

Zain Verjee has got some more information.

What do we know now, Zain?

VERJEE: Wolf, mass evacuations have been going on. More than 800 students have been evacuated from two schools here. At about noon, local time, an adult male gunman just burst into the school and started firing shots. We understand now that the gunman is holding hostages at the school there. This is what one official on the scene said about the hostage situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKI KELLEY, PUBLIC INFORMATION DIRECTOR, JEFFERSON COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: I can tell that you there were initially six hostages, and four have been released.

And I don't know whether those were all students, or if that was a mix of student and teacher. And I don't know why those four were released. But we are down to two hostages.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: Now, we understand that both those remaining hostages are female. The official went on to say that both the hostages are students, but we are getting some conflicting information here -- one of our sources on the scene saying one of the females could be the wife of the gunman, making it more of a domestic situation.

We're trying to figure that out and get more details for you. The official that just spoke also said that negotiators have made contact with the adult gunman. She also said that there was a suspicious device that had been identified, but they needed to check it out more carefully. A bomb squad and SWAT team are on the scene as well. She also added that there were no reports of injuries -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Zain. We will continue to stay on top of this story.

Other news we're following coming up next: Can good food sweeten a bitter relationship between two rival leaders, key allies in the war on terror? President Bush will try to break the ice when he breaks bread at a White House dinner tonight -- much more on that, including our Jack Cafferty, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Jack Cafferty is back with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.

CAFFERTY: Wolf, the question is who's to blame for the deteriorating conditions in Afghanistan? Things are getting worse in that country of late. Timothy writes from Florida: "There's only one person who should shoulder the blame for the comeback of the Taliban in Afghanistan. That's George Bush, who, for some reason known only to him, decided that Saddam Hussein was a bigger threat to Americans than the guy who seems to have orchestrated every single terrorist attack against Americans anywhere in the world for the past decade."

That would Osama bin Laden.

Kristen in Maryland: "I believe the Bush administration is to blame for the deteriorating conditions in Afghanistan. Most of our resources and manpower are in Iraq. We left a weak state to defend themselves against terrorist cells. To quell terrorism, we have to equally distribute our resources and manpower to both countries."

Devasish writes: "I would blame both Bush and Musharraf. Musharraf took advantage of President Bush's indifferent approach after the initial bombing of the Taliban. Musharraf is a fox. He was the architect of the terrorism in India. Why should Afghanistan be any different?"

Tony in California: "One thing is for sure. It's not President Bush and his cohorts. They haven't been responsible for anything since 9/12. So, Afghanistan must be someone else's fault."

And Al in Danbury, Connecticut: "Jack, I think the state of Ohio is to blame for the problems in Afghanistan. After all, they put Dubya in the White House" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jack, see you in a few moments.

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