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The Situation Room
Breaking News in Mark Foley Scandal
Aired October 04, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, breaking news in the Mark Foley scandal rocking Capitol Hill. The House speaker's office responding to a powerful new allegation, a former congressional aide says top Republicans got a heads-up about Foley's behavior much earlier than they acknowledge. It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington where Hastert's job is now on the line.
Also this hour, Bob Woodward on the defensive about his "State of Denial", key figures disputing his reporting about the president's handling of Iraq. I'll press the veteran journalist about some of the more controversial claims in his new book.
And a politically incorrect take on the bombshells that keep on dropping on the nation's capital. Can Bill Maher find humor in scandal in the war over Iraq?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Breaking news tonight. The scandal over a former congressman's online messages to teenage boys weighing more heavily than ever on the number one Republican in the U.S. House of Representatives. A congressional aide who resigned today now says he discussed Mark Foley's inappropriate behavior with senior House staff members at the highest levels before 2005. And ABC News reporting tonight that the aide, Kirk Fordham, spoke to the chief of staff of House Speaker Dennis Hastert more than three years ago about Foley.
And ABC News also quoting Fordham as saying that the information was in fact passed along to Hastert. If that's true, it would mean top Republican leaders were flagged about Foley's conduct well over a year earlier than they've acknowledged, maybe two years earlier. Short while ago, the office of the House Speaker Dennis Hastert responded to Fordham's statement by noting that the Foley matter is now under investigation.
On Capitol Hill tonight there are growing questions whether Hastert will be the next political casualty of the Foley fiasco. CNN's Brian Todd and CNN's Mary Snow are standing by, but first, Dana, the speaker's office, they're under enormous pressure tonight. What are they saying about these latest allegations? DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, we have a very simple statement from the speaker's chief of staff, Scott Palmer, and it says what Kirk Fordham said did not happen. It's as simple as said. Scott Palmer, as you just mentioned, is somebody who Kirk Fordham apparently says that he told about the questionable conduct of Mark Foley about three years ago.
But again, Scott Palmer flatly denying that, saying what Kirk Fordham said didn't happen. And as a matter of fact, a spokesman for the speaker says that Scott Palmer -- his statement denying these allegations stands not just for that, but everything that he has said in general today, not just to ABC, but also in a statement that CNN has as well. Making the case, as you just said, that even though Republican leaders said that they only found out about one questionable e-mail in 2005, he informed that he was concerned about inappropriate behavior by Mark Foley well before that, well before 2005.
Now we have another statement from the speaker spokesman, simply saying this matter has been referred to the Standards Committee and we fully expect the bipartisan panel will do what it needs to investigate. Behind the scenes, some of the leadership aides here are trying to make the case that perhaps Kirk Fordham is upset about the fact that he's no longer here. He was let go today. He -- Kirk Fordham made clear that he was leaving on his own, unclear exactly what happened behind the scenes that led to his departure today.
BLITZER: And what are you hearing up on the Hill, Dana, about Hastert's future?
BASH: You know if you had asked me that a couple of hours ago, several hours ago, I would have said that the speaker's office was feeling pretty good about the counteroffensive that they have been waging to try to essentially keep his job despite the fact that a top conservative newspaper yesterday and other conservatives have said that he should have resigned. But the atmosphere has changed dramatically tonight, although you know as I said, the speaker's office is pushing back against these allegations. We certainly haven't heard the end of it and I talked to one Republican, senior Republican strategist earlier today who said he would be surprised if the speaker still is in his job at the week's end.
BLITZER: All right, Dana thanks very much. For more now on the former congressional aide making those serious accusations about what top Republicans knew about Mark Foley's behavior, when they knew it -- that would be Kirk Fordham. He's a Capitol Hill veteran who worked for Mark Foley before he went to work for New York Congressman Tom Reynolds. Fordham stepped down today as Reynolds' chief of staff amid questions about his own handling of the Foley scandal.
Fordham denied allegations that he tried to protect Foley from being investigated by the board that oversees the overall page program. Meantime, Congressman Reynolds is clearly feeling the fallout, heat from the Foley scandal even as he was campaigning back in western New York today with the first lady, Laura Bush. Mary Snow is covering this part of the story -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, with all these angles once again New York Republican Congressman Tom Reynolds finds himself in middle of the storm over former Florida Congressman Mark Foley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): After days of questioning about the Mark Foley scandal, New York Republican Congressman Tom Reynolds tried to ship the focus back to his re-election. First Lady Laura Bush joined him in Buffalo on his campaign trail. The scandal wasn't mentioned, but it didn't take long before Reynolds was once again on the defensive. He was faced with questions about the sudden resignation of his chief of staff, Kirk Fordham. That came after word leaked that Fordham was advising Mark Foley.
REP. TOM REYNOLDS (R), NEW YORK: I've accepted his resignation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ask for it?
REYNOLDS: I think I outlined in the first part of this that Mr. Fordham believes that this is distraction by him, (INAUDIBLE) my chief of staff. I've accepted his resignation.
SNOW: Reynolds says Fordham worked for Foley for 10 years. In a statement Fordham said, when I sought to help Congressman Foley and his family when his shocking secrets were being revealed, I did so as a friend of my former boss, not as Congressman Reynolds' chief of staff. An ABC News spokesman says Fordham approached the network Friday trying to prevent ABC from making public text messages reported to be between Foley and a teen in exchange for the exclusive story that Foley would resign.
ABC declined. Fordham disputes that account, telling The Associated Press that he was trying to prevent only the most graphic messages from being made public. Reynolds says he didn't talk to Fordham about Foley, but the questions haven't stopped there. Reynolds has been asked about a $100,000 contribution Foley made to the Republican National Congressional Committee which Reynolds chairs. On Tuesday Reynolds said he was not returning the money.
REYNOLDS: It was a fund-raising that was honestly (INAUDIBLE). It's well-documented how he raised over $2 million, how he dispersed it.
SNOW: Congressman Reynolds says he first learned about an inappropriate e-mail exchange between Foley and a former teen page in the spring and went to House Speaker Dennis Hastert at that time. Hastert has said he doesn't recall the conversation, but doesn't deny it took place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And as for the political fallout for Congressman Reynolds and his reelection campaign, today's visit from the first lady had been scheduled in advance and one political observer we spoke with says because Reynolds is a key player in the Republican effort to hold on to the House of Representatives Republican leadership can't run away from him at this point -- Wolf.
BLITZER: He's going to have a tough time holding on to his on own seat right now. Thanks very much, Mary Snow, for that.
As the scandal balloons, some former congressional pages are coming forward and breaking their silence with details of their encounters with Foley. CNN's Brian Todd is picking up that part of the story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we've confirmed that one of the young men you're about to hear from, Tyson Vivyan, has been interviewed by the FBI about former Congressman Foley. Here's the account from Vivyan and another former page of some of the contact they said they had with Mr. Foley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Tyson Vivyan says when he was a page in 1996 and 1997 Congressman Mark Foley didn't speak to him. But Vivyan says shortly after he left Capitol Hill, the congressman initiated contact with instant messages. Vivyan says he was 17 at the time, a minor.
TYSON VIVYAN, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: The conversation turned sexual almost immediately.
TODD: It went on for years, according to Vivyan, e-mails, brief phone conversations, instant messages. Vivyan tells CNN on one occasion after his tenure as a page, when he was about 19, he returned to Washington and was invited to Foley's House. He says he brought another former page with him to make sure things didn't get out of hand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He ordered pizza for us. He offered us beer. We were minors at the time. We both declined.
TODD: The other former page who went with Vivyan that night, Josh Abrams, tells CNN he doesn't recall alcohol being present. Vivyan and Abrons both say nothing inappropriate happened. But Abrams also says Foley had exchanged instant messages with him after he left the page program, but while he was still a minor. Abrons said he initiated contact with Foley, but only to talk about politics. He says Foley did talk politics and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did make explicit references. He talked about anatomy, his own and other people's. He did enjoy talking about sex frequently and he did ask if I was attracted to him physically.
TODD: Neither Abrons nor Vivyan could provide copies of their alleged communications with Foley from that time. Vivyan showed us correspondence he said he had with Foley when Vivyan was in his mid 20's. Abrons and Vivyan said they made it clear they weren't interested in physical relationships with Foley, but why didn't they report this contact to authorities.
JOSH ABRONS, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: For a 17-year-old to receive instant messages from a member of Congress is quite something. And you don't want to burn that bridge with a member of Congress.
MELANIE SLOAN, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBILITY & ETHICS: What young man, even a 20-year-old, is ever going to think that he would be believed over this member of Congress?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: We tried to reach Mark Foley's attorney, David Roth, for reaction to Vivyan's and Abrons' accounts, Mr. Roth didn't return our calls. Tyson Vivyan tells us he is a liberal Democrat. Josh Abrons says he'd been both Republican and Democrat, now considers himself Independent -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian. Thank you very much, Brian Todd reporting.
Insiders from both parties saying these latest developments doesn't bode well for the House Speaker Dennis Hastert. Here's what James Carville and Bay Buchanan told me earlier in our "Strategy Session".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: What I also make of it is a -- Speaker Hastert isn't going to last a week. And it's a thing called a rule of holes. When you dug yourself in a hole the first thing you do is stop digging. And every day the hole's getting deeper and deeper, so I think they're going to...
BLITZER: You think he'll resign before the election.
CARVILLE: Oh I think he's going to resign by the end of the week. I don't think there's any doubt about it. I mean they've got to get the shovel out of the man's hand.
BLITZER: Because even as we speak, this -- Kirk Fordham, a former aide to Tom Reynolds, is now suggesting that he alerted the speaker's office two years ago about this Mark Foley problem.
BAY BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CAUSE: Well if that's true, I think the speaker will be gone by the end of the day. You can't sustain this now. There are Republicans already talking on the Hill, talking amongst themselves what they should do. Many of them do believe he should step down. Others are remaining loyal. I think this kind of revelation tells them he has to go, he has to go now, and I think the speaker himself will realize that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Let's check in with Jack Cafferty. He's joining us from New York with "The Cafferty File" -- what a story, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I believe you can refer to the speaker as toast as in he's toast. All right, on to other fun things going on with our government, get your party hats on. Congress is ready to celebrate victory in Iraq. What do you mean we haven't won the war -- doesn't make any difference to them.
In this year's defense spending bill, they set aside $20 million to pay for a celebration in Washington for quote, "commemoration of success", unquote, in Iraq and Afghanistan, $20 million, Iraq's a mess. Nineteen troops, ours, been killed so far this month. The sectarian violence is raging.
Police are finding bodies every day, many of them showing signs of torture. The government is having to pull police off the streets in Baghdad because some of the cops may be conspiring with the death squads and the decrease in U.S. troops isn't expected until at least next year.
But our Congress is ready to throw a party. Republican Senator Mitch McConnell from Kentucky is the original sponsor of this bit of insanity, the latest example of responsible handling of the taxpayers' money and they wonder why 75 percent of the country can't stand them.
Here's the question -- is now the time to set aside $20 million to celebrate victory in Iraq? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. I mean you think this stuff can't get any more bizarre, but they figure out a way down there.
BLITZER: Jack, anxious to hear what our viewers think of this. Thank you very much.
And coming up, we're going to go outside the beltway with Bill Maher -- right now though he's inside the beltway. He's in THE SITUATION ROOM. He tells us what he thinks about the war in Iraq and Washington scandals.
Plus, "State of Denial", the best-selling author Bob Woodward, also here in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'll ask him some of the tough questions about some of the more controversial allegations including warnings of an imminent attack before 9/11 and whether or not the Saudis lowered oil prices back in 2004 to help President Bush get reelected.
And more on the blood bath in Iraq, that Jack was just talking about. Nineteen U.S. troops killed in the first four days of October, death squads roaming the streets of Baghdad with the help of the Iraqi police. We're going to bring you to Baghdad. Michael Ware on the scene for us.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Much more on the new developments happening right now in the Mark Foley's scandal up on Capitol Hill. We'll get there shortly, but there's other important news we're following in Iraq, car bombings, bullet-riddled bodies and now 19 American troops dead in the past four days alone, right now Iraq exploding with violence. Some of the people who pledged to protect Iraqis actually impostors, bent on killing them. And joining us now in Baghdad our correspondent Michael Ware. What do you make of these reports, Michael, that there are now these death squads that have infiltrated the Iraqi police force potentially causing all sorts of havoc?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this has been the way it has from the beginning. The death squads have been a part of the Iraqi security apparatus that has been propped up by the U.S. forces. In fact, the death squads certainly on the Shia side have become institutionalized in the sense that the government themselves, or factions within it I should say, are running or operating these death squads.
And the U.S. military intelligence says for example Ministry of Interior commanders will rent out official government vehicles at night to death squads to allow them to operate. Iraqi security force units patrolling the streets at night or manning checkpoints allow the death squads through and then let them come back. It is a patent of the style of government that's dominated by very particular Shia blocs -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Do see the Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki himself a Shia as having the determination, the will, the guts to deal with these militias, these death squads that have infiltrated the police and other establishment forces in Iraq.
WARE: Well this is what the U.S. is banking upon. They're putting all their eggs in the Maliki basket at the moment. This is a man who's relatively powerless. He was a compromised candidate for the prime minister ship. All of the big players saw him as relatively neutral or manageable.
He doesn't have a militia of his own. He's a fringe player within a broader powerful Shia bloc. So the U.S is attempting to prop him up by delivering security to Baghdad, they want him to take the credit and develop a popular base, according to State Department officials and U.S. military intelligence officials I've talked to that will give him a wedge against these all powerful militias who actually run the key elements on this government -- Wolf.
BLITZER: President Bush and Defense Secretary Rumsfeld want the U.S. military, the U.S. policy to stay the course, if you will, to continue doing what it has been doing. Colin Powell is quoted as saying today, "Staying the course isn't good enough because a course has to have an end". Does staying the course based on everything you're hearing from U.S. military commanders and others, that strategy have an end?
WARE: Listen, Wolf, this is the way to put it in a nutshell, if the U.S. continues its policy and operations as they are now, the situation will worsen and the enemies of the U.S., principally al Qaeda and Iran will continue to strengthen. There's a number of options that are presented to Washington at the moment that are either do this or they don't do this.
They either need to get serious about the battle here on the ground, physically against al Qaeda and the insurgency and commit the troops that the commanders need or they need to look for alternative solutions. At the end of the day, what they're facing is the potential of most of this country being subsumed by a Shia-led bureaucracy style government with other parts of the government left as western al Qaeda desert training camps and facilities. To avoid that, something radical has to be done is the consensus. So Colin Powell is right, staying the course will only further strengthen America's enemies--Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Michael thanks very much. Michael Ware is our correspondent in Baghdad.
And still to come, "State of Denial", and explosive allegations. Bob Woodward here in THE SITUATION ROOM, find out if he stands by his report that Saudi Arabia intentionally flooded the oil market back in 2004 to help President Bush win another four years in the White House.
Also cutting through the spin, Bill Maher one-on-one with me, his take on the war and Washington scandal.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There are new developments tonight in the Mark Foley scandal on Capitol Hill. We'll get to those developments momentarily. First let's check in with Zain Verjee for a quick check of what else is in the news tonight -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, while the Bush administration appeals a judge's ruling against wiretaps without a warrant, the wiretaps can continue. That essentially was the decision today by a federal appeals court in Ohio. It's the latest legal volley in a challenge filed by the ACLU against warrantless surveillance in January. Similar challenges by other groups have been filed. The issue could wind up before the U.S. Supreme Court.
Yet another record set on Wall Street today. For a second consecutive day, the Dow Jones Industrial Average soared to an all- time high, this time jumping 123 points. The Dow closed at just over 11,850. NASDAQ rose to its highest level in five months and the S&P 500 is on a five and a half months high. Now the rally has been driven largely by optimism over the outlook for interest rates and profits.
California's attorney general is seeking felony indictments against former Hewlett Packard Chairwoman Patricia Dunn and four other people. The action stems from the corporate spying scandal at the company. Dunn and the others were implicated for the use of a practice called pretexting, to obtain personal information from journalists, employees and HP directors. Attorney General Bill Lockyer has called what they did colossally stupid -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Zain, thank you. And just ahead, his best- selling books take a critical look at the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war. Key figures are questioning some of the account. The journalist, Bob Woodward, he'll join us to defend his book, "State of Denial".
Plus, Bill Maher on the Foley scandal, the Iraq war, lots more. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM as well. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, breaking news in the Mark Foley scandal rocking Capitol Hill. The house speaker's office responding to a powerful new allegation, a former congressional aide says top Republicans got a heads-up about Foley's behavior much earlier than they acknowledged.
Also, a U.S. official says the U.S. has directly warned North Korea not to conduct a nuclear test. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill says the U.S. is not willing to live with a quote, "nuclear North Korea".
And officials are looking into a possible crime in the case of tainted spinach. Officials searched two California producer companies to find out if they followed food safety procedures.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Back now to our breaking news in the Mark Foley scandal on Capitol Hill, a congressional aide who resigned today says he discussed Foley's inappropriate behavior with senior House staff members at the highest levels before 2005 and ABC News reporting tonight that that aide, Kirk Fordham, spoke to the chief of staff of House Speaker Dennis Hastert's office more than three years ago. ABC is quoting Fordham as saying that Hastert was informed about that meeting. But Hastert's chief of Staff Scott Palmer says the events Kirk Fordham described, quote, did not happen. Still, all of this is raising serious new questions about who knew what and when.
Our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel is following this. She's standing by to join us shortly. We'll get to Andrea momentarily.
But first, Bob Woodward's new book offers a gripping portrayal of the Bush administration, dysfunctional and in denial, he says, about the Iraq war. Some key figures have come forward now to dispute some of Woodward's account of the troubled relationships, miscommunications and misleading information. I sat down today with the veteran "Washington Post" journalist and author Bob Woodward.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Joining us now the veteran "Washington Post" journalist, the author Bob Woodward. Thanks Bob for coming in.
BOB WOODWARD, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Thank you.
Let's talk about "State of Denial", the number one bestseller, your new book. Some people are coming forward and, I don't know if they're denying, but they're raising questions about some of the treatment, some of the scenes you depict.
WOODWARD: But that actually has evaporated over time. But go through the specifics...
BLITZER: Well, let's go through it, because our Larry King interviewed the first President Bush, 41. And he was asked about your suggestion in there that he was finding Condoleezza Rice, the National Security Advisor, now the Secretary of State, a disappointment.
Let's listen to what the first President Bush told Larry.
WOODWARD: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: How about when you're -- like in the Woodward book, they quote you as not liking Condoleezza Rice, or you didn't think she was up to par.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, if that's a quote, it's a lie. I can't make it any more clearer than that. I like Condoleezza Rice. She worked for me. I have great respect for Condoleezza. But I can't believe Woodward -- I haven't read the book -- that he actually said I said that.
KING: I think someone says you said it. I don't have it in front of me now. But it's quoted as saying you didn't think she was equal to the task.
BUSH: Well, that's crazy. I talked to her yesterday, I guess there were some hurt feelings, the day before she went to this trip.
KING: She was hurt?
BUSH: Well -- she called me and said don't -- there's something in this book.
KING: That's what it is.
BUSH: But she didn't say what it was, that I didn't like her. She said there's remarks in there attributed to you. I don't believe it. And I said, well, I don't know what they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP
BLITZER: The passage from the book is "even the president's father had confided that he was unhappy with Rice. 'Condi is a disappointment, isn't she?... She's not up to the job.'"
WOODWARD: And he said that to Brent Scowcroft, who was his National Security Advisor. And I reported that out thoroughly, and, as you see, there's a kind of vagueness in the, well, I don't know what's said in the book. I like her.
Well, I didn't say he didn't like her. I said that he told Brent Scowcroft, who's one of his closest friends and aides... BLITZER: His former National Security Advisor.
WOODWARD: Exactly... That Condi, well, "she's a disappointment, isn't she?"
BLITZER: As you know, there was also this sensitive moment before 9/11, on July 10, when George Tenet, the then CIA director, came over to the White House with Cofer Black, one of his top aides over there involved in intelligence gather, a veteran CIA officer.
And they wanted to convey to Condoleezza Rice, then the National Security Advisor, how urgent the Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda threat was to the United States. And the picture we get is Condoleezza Rice listened to them, but sort of ignored it.
Is that a fair assessment?
WOODWARD: Well, they felt they got the brush-off. Now, when I -- when this book was published, the first reaction was no, there was no such meeting. Do you recall that? It couldn't have happened.
And then they said, yes, there was a meeting. And they have affirmed that Tenet and Cofer Black, who was the Chief of Counterterrorism for the CIA -- now this is two months before 9/11, got in the car at CIA headquarters, started racing toward the White House. Tenet calls from the car and says, I have to see you right away.
How many times does that happen?
They then present this information -- and now they've revealed, which I did not know, that Rice then asked Tenet, in fact, ordered him to give the briefing to Don Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general. I know of no other incident where she requested or ordered that a briefing be given to those two officials.
So obviously, there was a seriousness to it. Tenet and Black wanted to move faster. It's also reasonable, her position, which is reflected in the book; namely, they didn't come in and say, hey, there's going to be a terrorist attack in 60 days; this is how they're going to do it, and these are their targets. They did...
BLITZER: But they wanted to raise some alarm bells?
WOODWARD: Well, raise some alarm bells. And the idea was to get a covert action plan going immediately in Afghanistan to try to go get Osama bin Laden and his people.
We now know, from 9/11, afterwards, the CIA was well poised to do this.
BLITZER: We're getting out of time, but I want to raise this issue.
The Saudis are denying two points that I found fascinating in the book that I did not know. WOODWARD: Yes.
BLITZER: One suggestion that Prince Bandar, who was then the Saudi ambassador, the longtime...
WOODWARD: Right.
BLITZER: ... Saudi ambassador -- effectively, in 2004, the Saudis agreed to increase the export of oil, so that the price per barrel would go down, and potentially help President Bush get reelected. And the Saudis are saying they would never do anything like that.
WOODWARD: OK. But I had that in the book two years ago, "Plan of Attack." And there was lots of rumbling about it. And it turns out that Prince Bandar visited the White House between when I was working on that and when the book came out, and came out publicly. And you can find clips in which he announced that they are going to keep the price of oil down...
BLITZER: Well, they're suggesting...
WOODWARD: ... as much as possible.
BLITZER: They're suggesting to prevent global recession, not to help Bush get reelected.
WOODWARD: Come on. Get real.
BLITZER: I'm just telling you...
WOODWARD: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: ... what the Saudis are saying.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: And one final question.
When President Bush became the first U.S. president to endorse a two-state solution to the Middle East crisis, Israel and a new state of Palestine, what you report, and I did not know -- and fascinating -- is that this was the result, effectively, of an ultimatum that the Saudis delivered to President Bush: You better do this. And you better do it right now.
WOODWARD: Or we're not going to have relations with you, the Saudis said.
Now, that has been reported before. But I got the memos and the notes of the meetings. And they're very detailed. And you see how Bandar... BLITZER: You actually saw those documents?
WOODWARD: You see how Bandar lays down an argument. And, of course, the president then eventually came out for a Palestinian state.
But I have found, like in the case of Andy Card, he goes around and says I'm an excellent reporter. He has no argument with me. And, as he has acknowledged, we interviewed a lot, actually, for seven hours, 207 pages of transcript. That's lots of detail. And the other major characters and people have been interviewed in the same way, or their aides.
BLITZER: You have done a lot of work. I know you have.
"State of Denial," Bob Woodward's new bestseller.
Thanks very much for coming in.
WOODWARD: Thank you.
BLITZER: Congratulations.
WOODWARD: Thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And coming up next, he's always outspoken, and tonight he has lots to say about the Foley scandal, the war in Iraq and more. Bill Maher joins us in THE SITUATION ROOM. That's coming up next.
And Jack Cafferty wants to know is now the time to set aside $20 million, tax payer dollars, to celebrate victory in Iraq. Jack's standing by with the Cafferty File and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The state of the war in Iraq and the Capitol Hill scandal over Mark Foley. My next guest brings his own outside the beltway perspective to these major stories.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Political observer, outspoken humorist, Bill Maher. He's joining us here in "THE SITUATION ROOM." I should say the host of "Real Time with Bill Maher" on our sister network. That would be HBO.
BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": I was hoping to be standing.
BLITZER: You like to stand in "THE SITUATION ROOM?"
MAHER: I see you standing.
BLITZER: You know, my mother wants me to sit down once in a while and I figured you're a distinguished guest, we can sit. The ...
MAHER: Oh, is that who gets to ...
BLITZER: Bob Woodward, he sat. Bill Maher sits.
MAHER: That's how you decide it?
BLITZER: To let you sit.
MAHER: There's a pecking order?
BLITZER: That's right.
MAHER: The lesser people have to stand?
BLITZER: You know, you're...
MAHER: Then I'm honored.
BLITZER: HBO is...
MAHER: Can we lie down?
BLITZER: HBO is...
MAHER: Then I'd feel really good.
BLITZER: HBO is huge, so you're worthy of sitting down. But I'm glad you watch "THE SITUATION ROOM."
MAHER: I do.
BLITZER: Thank you.
MAHER: I watch it standing up.
BLITZER: What do you make of this Mark Foley scandal?
MAHER: I haven't heard about it. If only the news channels would cover it a little more, because I think it deserves more coverage.
BLITZER: You think we're underplaying this story?
MAHER: Yes, I mean, considering that, you know, there's a war going on and we found out this last week -- oh, we found out -- we knew all along, but Bob Woodward, you know, reiterated once again that we were totally lied into this war. That...
BLITZER: "State of Denial," that's the name of it.
MAHER: "State of Denial." And I think, you know, everyone is on the page. I think there were a lot of Republicans who were towing the party line and pretending to support the president. But nobody except George Bush and, as he would say, his dog, doesn't get it, that this war is lost and we should get out. That, to me, is the scandal. BLITZER: How does the U.S. get out of this situation right now with some ...
MAHER: Just get out. You know what? I'm tired of hearing people -- especially on the right -- predict what's going to happen if we leave. Every one of their predictions about everything involved in this war has been wrong from the get go.
For George Bush, you know -- when did I ever lead you wrong George Bush -- to say if we get out now, this will happen. In 50 years, this will happen. Let's just get out and see what happens, because we don't know what's going to happen.
BLITZER: Because the point of the Bob Woodward book wasn't so much a state of denial, even though that's the title. But it does show widespread incompetence.
MAHER: To say the least, yes.
BLITZER: All right, we're going to pick up that thought.
MAHER: OK.
BLITZER: And we've got a lot more to talk about.
MAHER: I know you want to talk about Mr. Foley.
BLITZER: We're going to talk about him, because our viewers want to get your thoughts.
MAHER: OK, I'll be happy to share them.
BLITZER: I know you haven't paid much attention to that story and I'm sure it's...
MAHER: No, I have.
BLITZER: ... probably not going to be mentioned on "Real Time with Bill Maher..".
MAHER: Now that I've cleared my conscience...
BLITZER: Friday nights, 11:00 p.m. Eastern...
MAHER: ... and said it's not the most important story, let's get into it, Wolf.
BLITZER: Stand by. I want you to listen to what Florida Congressman Mark Foley said on June 6, 2002. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARK FOLEY (R), FLORIDA: I warn all of you not to cry in front of me, please, so I can get through this very important day with you without shedding tears, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now, he was the chairman of the Congressional Caucus on Missing & Exploited Children.
MAHER: Yes.
BLITZER: And he was introducing legislation, you know, it's -- what?
MAHER: But the Republicans always do this. They always repress the things that are their demons inside them. Bill Bennett, right, with the gambling? Mr. Virtue, "Book of Virtues."
Rush Limbaugh, you know, went on the air day after day saying anyone who does drugs should go to jail -- no treatment. This guy was doing 30 Oxycontin a day. You know, Wolf, I've been high a lot in my life. I've never been that high.
So, you know, it doesn't surprise me that the people who came to Washington ...
BLITZER: Well ...
MAHER: ...to restore honor and integrity wind up being the biggest hypocrites. I mean this ...
BLITZER: A few Democrats have been hypocrites, too. We've got to be fair, right?
MAHER: Yes, but the Democrats aren't the virtue people. They're not the people who want to legislate morality. The Republicans are.
I mean this, to me, is about how sexually repressed America is. And, by the way, I mean, this guy was a creepy guy. He was doing some creepy things. But I don't think it's right to call him a pedophile. These weren't children, per se. These were...
BLITZER: 16-year-olds, 15-year-olds...
MAHER: But I think the age of consent is 16.
BLITZER: Yes.
MAHER: So I'm not saying what he was doing was right. It's like a professor hitting on kids, students in his class. But it is somewhat different than the way they're characterizing it.
BLITZER: Listen to this other clip that is making the rounds right now. This is the former congressman, Mark Foley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I were one of these sickos, I'd be nervous with "America's Most Wanted" on my tail.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: That's John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted."
MAHER: Yes.
BLITZER: And he was very involved trying to get some of these sickos.
MAHER: But, again, you know, if we lived in a country that was not so sexually repressed, if the Republicans didn't make gay marriage a campaign issue, this man could have come out of the closet a long time ago. He could be openly gay, like the mayor of Berlin is openly gay. And then he'd be living in Falls Church, Virginia with his long time companion, Steve, who worked at the Smithsonian, you know?
He wouldn't have to be trolling for kids -- for 17-year-olds on the Internet.
BLITZER: It's a serious problem, though. It's a very serious problem because, as all of us know, there are other gay members of Congress who are not open about that.
MAHER: Right.
BLITZER: And what you're suggesting is that is a built in, what?
MAHER: Well, I think it's part and parcel of the sickness of our society that we repress sexuality so much. And, by the way, these kids -- kids are not innocent, certainly sexually these days, not 17- year-old kids. These kids were flirting back. I hate to say what I've heard some right-wingers have been saying lately, but it's true.
I mean if somebody says to you, "Are you a little horny?" and you go, "Yes, a little," you know, I mean -- I think the kids have the power, because any kid who printed out that e-mail message, you know -- would you measure your penis for me -- he's got a lot more power on the congressman than the congressman has on the kid.
BLITZER: Is this subject going to be coming up on "Real Time with Bill Maher?"
MAHER: Oh, yes. We're not a strict news show. We can have fun with it.
BLITZER: And you're...
MAHER: I'm having Robin Williams on.
BLITZER: Is that -- is Robin Williams going to be on...
MAHER: You think I'm going to avoid the subject of...
BLITZER: Who else besides Robin Williams is on this week?
MAHER: We have John Kerry in the satellite to begin with. And then we have Kerry -- I mean Robin Williams, Richard Clark and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen on the panel. BLITZER: Oh.
MAHER: And Chris Matthews from your competition coming up.
BLITZER: It's a good show.
MAHER: Yes.
BLITZER: We watch it all the time.
MAHER: It's going to be a good show. Thank you.
BLITZER: Bill Maher, thanks for coming in.
MAHER: Thank you, Wolf. Always good to see you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And up ahead, Capitol Hill scandal timeline, a close look at who's saying what about when they knew that certain lurid messages were sent to minors on Capitol Hill. That's coming up.
Plus, U.S. troops still paying a very heavy price in Iraq. So Jack Cafferty wants to know, is now the time to set aside -- yes -- $20 million of your taxpayer dollars to celebrate victory in Iraq. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Back now to the breaking news we're following in the Mark Foley scandal. And the questions about who on Capitol Hill knew about his behavior and when they knew it. Our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel has been taking a close look at the timeline -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, even though this story only broke into public view last week, some Republicans say they first learned about it last year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): November, 2005; a 16-year-old page from Louisiana contacts staff members in the office of Louisiana Republican Rodney Alexander and tells them about questionable e-mails he's received from Congressman Mark Foley. Alexander's staff then contacts aides in House Speaker Dennis Hastert's office, who referred the matter to the House clerk.
It's at this time Republican Congressman John Shimkus, the chairman of the page board, also gets involved. Together, Shimkus and the House clerk meet with Foley and warn him to immediately cease any communication with the young man. No other action is taken, and Hastert's offers says his aides never told the speaker or anyone else in their office about the e-mails.
Fast forward to the spring of this year. That's when Congressman Alexander says he told New York Congressman Tom Reynolds about the Foley e-mails.
REP. THOMAS REYNOLDS (R), NEW YORK: I reported the incident. Sometimes I think, you know, as we look at -- what's a good citizen do? I mean, we have been taught that if you see a circumstance that isn't right, take it to your supervisor.
KOPPEL: Reynolds heads up the House Congressional Election Committee and says he passed this information onto House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
But Hastert told CNN this week he doesn't remember the conversation.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't recall Reynolds talking to me about that. If he did, he brought it in with a whole stack of things. And I think if he would have had that decision, he would have said it was also resolved, because my understanding now that it was resolved at that point. The family had gotten what it wanted to get.
KOPPEL: It isn't until last Friday that Foley abruptly resigns over news reports he'd exchanged sexually explicit instant messages with other teenage pages, dating back to 2003.
The very next day, House Republican leaders issue a joint statement calling Foley's communication with pages, "an obscene breach of trust," and recommending the House page board conduct a full review.
On Sunday, Democratic leaders in both the House and Senate are suggesting a GOP election year cover-up.
Later that same day, Speaker Hastert's office releases letters he's written to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Florida's Governor Jeb Bush asking them to conduct an investigation to determine if Foley's actions violated federal or state law.
On Monday, Hastert and Congressman Shimkus tell reporters no one in the Republican leadership had seen the more sexually explicit instant messages until last week.
HASTERT: Congressman Foley duped a lot of people.
KOPPEL: By Tuesday morning, an editorial in a conservative newspaper calls for Hastert to resign his speakership at once.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Then today, Congressman Reynolds' chief of staff suddenly resigns, accusing Democrats of making him a political issue in his boss' race. Kirk Fordham saying that he had earlier been the chief of staff to now disgraced former Congressman Mark Foley. And in a parting shot at House Republican leaders, alleges that he had warned top House leaders back in 2005 about Foley, Wolf.
BLITZER: Andrea, reviewing the timeline. Andrea Koppel, thank you.
Let's go to New York and Jack Cafferty -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: The question this hour, is now the time to set aside $20 million to celebrate victory in Iraq? This is part of the military spending bill that was recently passed in Washington. And this party money, the $20 million, was the brain child of Republican Mitch McConnell down there in Kentucky. Nice work.
Bryan in Boiling Springs, South Carolina: "By all means. Put $20 million aside now in a simple savings account, and by the time we win the war in Iraq, we'll have enough interest to bail out Social Security."
Joann in Kentucky -- "No, now is not the time to throw a party celebrating victory in Iraq. It's time to send Mitch McConnell and some others home."
Mike in Florida -- "Jack, I don't have any problem with an earmark for an Iraq war victory celebration. As far as I'm concerned, more congressional earmarks should fall into the category of allocations that will never be spent."
Roseanne in New York -- "I think the $20 million for a party for victory in Iraq is cheap at twice the price. Just think: Declare victory, have a party, and go home. That would save thousands of U.S. casualties and $8 billion a month. Who could argue against that proposition?"
Troy in New York -- "Of course it's acceptable to spend $20 million for a victory party in Iraq. Why don't they just toss in another $10 million to celebrate the largest trade deficit in U.S. history, another $5 million to celebrate the fact that there is no border security, et cetera?"
And Sandy in Tampa writes this -- "Divide the money by the number of U.S. casualties and send approximately $7,000 to each of the families left behind. It's just enough to cover the cost of burying their loved one."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/caffertyfile. We posted some more of them there online -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jack, thanks very much. Let's find out what's coming up right at the top of the hour, John Roberts filling in tonight for Paula Zahn. Hi, John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, thanks, Wolf. Coming up in just under four minutes, we're going to be following the late-breaking developments in this spreading scandal that started with disgraced ex- Congressman Mark Foley.
We're also getting astonishing and heartbreaking new descriptions of the scene at that Amish schoolhouse shooting. Would-be rescuers go on camera for the first time. Plus, a chance to look into the eyes of victims from two of the world's most ghastly crises. Will the world help them? In-depth coverage coming up at the top of the hour -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, John, sounds good. Thanks very much.
Still ahead here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Iraq, North Korea and a studious squirrel. "Hot Shots," that's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's a look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends at the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.
Baghdad. A U.S. soldier searches a house, part of a security operation intended to reduce sectarian violence.
Ramallah on the West Bank. Palestinian militants from the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade demonstrate against the Hamas-led government.
Protesters in South Korea burn a photograph of the North Korean leader Kim Jong Il.
And in Utah, a squirrel -- look at this -- takes a moment to look at the morning newspaper.
Some of today's "Hot Shots," pictures often worth a thousand words.
That's it for us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW," John Roberts filling in for Paula -- John.
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