Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Speaker Hastert Reacts to Foley Scandal; Kirk Fordham Speaks with FBI; Interview with Jim Webb
Aired October 05, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Ali and to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, a new scramble by the house speaker to limit the fallout from the Mark Foley scandal. Dennis Hastert now says, quote, the buck stops here, but he is also laying some of the blame on Democrats. It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. We're following all the angles of the still exploding story.
Also this hour, the Foley factor in the battle for Congress. Is the political landscape dramatically different than it was only a few days ago? We're zeroing in on the races that could be swayed by the scandal.
And it's one of the closest and most contentious Senate showdowns in the nation. Will Republican incumbent George Allen's mistakes bring him down. I'll ask his Democratic challenger Jim Webb about Allen's stumbles and his own.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The House speaker Dennis Hastert fighting today for job protection, nearly a week after the Mark Foley online message scandal erupted. He went before cameras just a short while ago to say he's sorry about what happened and to insist Republican leaders are taking responsibility. Hastert says he's looking for someone of high caliber to lead an independent investigation into who knew what, about when, involving Foley's behavior. Hastert again insisted he first learned about Foley's sexually suggestive instant messages to a former page only last week.
Today, the FBI is interviewing former congressional aide Kirk Fordham. He says he warned Hastert's office more than two years ago about Foley's Internet contacts with teenage boys. The House Ethics Committee today is launching its own investigation of the Foley Scandal, saying dozens of lawmakers and staffers could be subpoenaed in the coming weeks. CNN's Kathleen Koch is standing by with White House reaction.
First, let's go to our congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, you know, one of the tricks of the trade, I should say, in politics is that when you're under fire, you do what you can to change the story line and that is exactly what we saw House Speaker Dennis Hastert do today. He came out in what his aides said would be a big press conference, a big announcement and he did what some close to him say he simply hasn't done well so far and that is take full responsibility for the Mark Foley scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNIS HASTERT, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: When you talk about the page issue and what's happened in the Congress, I'm deeply sorry that this has happened. The bottom line is that we're taking responsibility because, ultimately, as someone has said in Washington before, the buck stops here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the speaker also made clear that he is not going to step down. He won't resign. But, you know, one of the things that his aides had hoped he was going to announce was the fact that he wants to tap former FBI director Louis Freeh to head up a review of the page program and, according to a house Republican aide, he actually called the Democratic leader of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and informed her of this and got the sense that Nancy Pelosi didn't want that to happen, that she said no. That is why, according to the Republicans, the speaker didn't announce that.
Now, we're getting a different story from the Democratic side that she was simply informed about it. She didn't say no. Now, the bottom line is that there are still a lot of questions about who knew what, when in the speaker's office about Mark Foley and his inappropriate conduct and that is something that the speaker also had to answer today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASTERT: I don't know who knew what and when. We know that there are reports of people that knew it and have fed it out or leaked it to the press, you know. That's why we've asked for investigations. So let me just say that's when we've asked for an investigation to find who that is. If it's members of my staff or they didn't do the job, we will act appropriately. If it's somebody else's staff, they ought to act appropriately as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: So there you see the speaker not really answering the fact that there have been contradictory statements even in the past day, for example, from Mark Foley's former chief of staff, saying he informed the speaker's office more than two years ago. You heard the way the speaker is responding at this point. He is just simply saying he doesn't know.
But Wolf, another part of what the speaker's office calls his offense strategy is also to try to throw as much red meat to the Republican base as possible, especially some of the conservatives who are very unhappy with the fact that they allowed Mark Foley to continue up here while he apparently was having inappropriate conduct and contact with pages.
Speaker Hastert did an interview with the "Chicago Tribune" where he lashed out at Democrats in way that he -- much more forcefully than he has been doing over the past couple of days, essentially blaming them for being behind the release of this information so close to the election. Listen to what he said. He said, "I think the base has to realize after a while who knew about it, who knew what, when. When the base finds out who's feeding this monster they're not going to be happy. The people who want to see this thing blow up are ABC News and a lot of Democratic operatives, funded by George Soros." So those are some very strong words from the speaker.
We haven't gotten anything from his office to back up those allegations. We talked to couple of Republicans today who said they weren't so sure that's the right strategy to go down, attacking the media and going after George Soros and places and outlets like that, when he has his own issues to deal with.
BLITZER: Meanwhile, Dana, the House Ethics Committee announced today they're opening up a bipartisan huge investigation, that's going to last weeks, into this whole Foley matter. What is the latest on that?
BASH: Well, that's right. You said weeks and that is one of the headlines out of it. They insist that they are going to take weeks, not months. It won't be a lengthy investigation. They say that they have prepared four dozen subpoenas for lawmakers and aides, that they are going to try to get to the bottom of what has happened in a fast matter and they've got a subcommittee that is going to deal with this. But they also made clear that they are not going to be able to actually investigate Mark Foley because he is no longer a member of Congress. That's going to be something for the FBI to do.
BLITZER: All right Dana, thanks very much.
The Democratic Party Chairman, Howard Dean, meanwhile, is blasting the Speaker Dennis Hastert's suggestions that Democrats had a role in breaking the Foley scandal. Dean tells CNN that Hastert's claims, in his words, is a disgrace and a Republican lie and he's accusing the Republicans of putting their party ahead of America's children.
Let's get the latest White House reaction to the Foley scandal and the possible fallout on election day. We go to the White House, Kathleen Koch standing by there, Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the White House insists that people in November will vote based on the things that are important to them, as press secretary Tony Snow said today, the economy, safety, security. Still, he used some pretty fancy footwork as he tried to downplay the impact of the Foley controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice-over): It was a delicate dance. First step, distance the White House from the Foley scandal on the hill.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're not getting into telling the House how to do its business.
KOCH: Step two, build in wiggle room in case an investigation shows more wrongdoing or a cover-up.
SNOW: We don't know what happened. You have to find out who knew what and all those sorts of details and I don't know them. It's one of the reasons why there's an investigation.
KOCH: Step three, reiterate President Bush's insistence that Hastert not resign.
SNOW: In absence of full information, we will stick with what we've got.
KOCH: Punctuating the dance, sharp condemnations of Congressman Mark Foley's behavior.
SNOW: It's hideous. It's unacceptable, period.
KOCH: A clear re-choreographing of Monday's dismissal of the matter as, quote, naughty e-mails. But the White House couldn't dance around the fact that President Bush's message is being drowned out by the furor over the scandal.
SNOW: If you guys write about the Foley scandal morning, noon and night, it seems to me that the president is talking about things that matter. I mean, here we are. We've got news on North Korea and Iran and other places and the president is involved in --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: Now Snow says that President Bush has not spoken to Speaker Hastert or any other Republican congressional leaders about the Foley scandal and that's not likely to change, Wolf, as the White House really struggles to redirect attention to issues that the Republicans believe they can win on.
BLITZER: Kathleen, thank you. Kathleen Koch at the White House.
Federal authorities, meanwhile, are pressing ahead with their preliminary investigation of Mark Foley. That includes interviews with the former congressional aide Kirk Fordham, who claims he warned top Republicans about Foley's behavior before 2005. Government sources say prosecutors so far haven't found enough evidence to launch what is called a full-blown criminal investigation. The Attorney General Alberto Gonzales today emphasized that the probe right now is preliminary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Again, I'm not going to get into discussions about possible crimes. Let us get information. Let us get the facts before we make an announcement about possible crimes. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena will have a full report on the Foley investigation in the next hour, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
In the meantime, let's check in with Zain Verjee. She's watching some other important stories making news, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, NATO is now in command of security across Afghanistan. It formally took over security duties from U.S.-led coalition forces in eastern Afghanistan today. Afghan President Hamid Karzai attended the handover ceremony in Kabul. This comes nearly five years to the day since U.S.-led forces invaded Afghanistan and toppled the Taliban. Insurgent fighting recently though has increased.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made an unannounced visit to Iraq today. Indirect fire from mortars or rockets delayed her military plane's landing at the Baghdad Airport by about 30 minutes. Rice is urging Iraqi leaders to move quickly and put aside differences to try to halt surging sectarian violence. She met with Iraq's prime minister and its president.
Rice's visit to Iraq comes amid new attacks though. A bomb exploded today near a group of laborers in downtown Baghdad. Iraqi police say two people were killed and more than two dozen were injured. Police say a separate car bomb killed two people in bombings and shootings north of Baghdad left seven people dead.
Iran's president is promising to resist international pressure to suspend his country's nuclear program. This as Britain's United Nations ambassador says the U.N. Security Council will begin debating a resolution next week to impose sanctions on Iran. Options could include breaking off diplomatic and economic relations. Meanwhile, Britain's foreign office says Secretary of State Rice and ministers from five other world powers will meet in London tomorrow to discuss the nuclear issue -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain, thanks very much. Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty is standing by "The Cafferty File." Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, Dennis Hastert says he is not going anywhere, well at least not yet. He says he's going to stay on as speaker of the House. Hastert insists the buck stops with him, but he also suggests that ABC News and Democratic operatives who are the ones who want to see this story about Foley blow up right now, he claims associates of Bill Clinton might have known about the allegations against former Congressman Foley and could be behind all of this coming out so close to the midterm elections.
It's Bill Clinton's fault. He told the "Chicago Tribune," here's a quote. "If somebody had this information, when they had it, we could have dealt with it then." Well Mr. Hastert, you had this information. A former aide to Foley says that your office was warned about Foley's behavior at least two years ago. Here is the question. What's your reaction to House Speaker Hastert blaming the Democrats and ABC News for the release of the Foley scandal story? E-mail your thoughts on that to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. We have gotten hundreds, this is one of those days, Wolf, when we post the questions online, hundreds and hundreds of e-mails are pouring into "The Cafferty File" long before this broadcast even got on the air.
BLITZER: You know, it's a convenient target. You go after the news media. Both sides do it. I remember when the Monica Lewinsky story broke, ABC News at that time was very aggressive, as you remember, Jackie Judd working for ABC News, at the time, breaking stories, left and right and ABC News was a convenient target then. ABC News is a convenient target now. Sometimes it's ABC, sometimes the "New York Times," sometimes it's CNN. You know, that comes with the territory, I guess.
CAFFERTY: Well, the thing that is kind of amusing is this could all be Bill Clinton's fault. Yes, at least ABC News, they did break the story and I suppose the Democrats have a dog in the fight if you look at the midterm elections. But Bill Clinton?
BLITZER: All right Jack, thanks very much.
A key player in this Foley fiasco has just emerged from an interview with the FBI. That would be Kirk Fordham, who used to work for Congressman Foley for some 10 years. He has suggested yesterday specifically that he alerted the speaker's office about Foley's inappropriate behavior more than two years ago, before 2005. Now he and his attorney have emerged from that interview with the FBI. Listen to what his attorney just said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM HEAPHY, KIRK FORDHAM'S ATTORNEY: I represent Kirk Fordham. We have met today with the FBI, had a very productive conversation with them. Kirk continues to believe strongly that all the facts of this need to come out first to investigators and continue to be completely forthcoming. But because there is an ongoing investigation, he can't comment any farther.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: There he is, Kirk Fordham. He worked, until yesterday, for Tom Reynolds, the Republican Congressman from western New York, from Buffalo. Tom Reynolds also in the middle of all of this. The suggestion was he knew about Foley's behavior last year, reported it to the speaker. Apparently not much was done as a result of that.
Much more on this story coming up, the Foley scandal and the battle for the control of Congress. Will the controversy keep conservative votes home on Election Day? Plus, did Representative Foley break any laws? We're going to ask our Internet law expert.
And later, the bruising battle in Virginia. Senator George Allen is fighting for his political life as Democratic opponent Jim Webb is standing by. He's joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here in Washington right now, there's one major story on everyone's political radar. That would be the Mark Foley online message scandal. It's clearly having an impact right now, but will it be on voters minds when they go to the polls in less than five weeks? Let's bring in our senior political analyst Bill Schneider -- Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, the political landscape for this year's midterm election is changing even as we speak.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Republicans are afraid their base could abandon them just as it did in the Watergate midterm of 1974.
PAUL WEYRICH, FREE CONGRESS FOUNDATION: Reagan's pollster Dick Wirthlin coined the term the "embarrassed Republican vote" and he mentioned that because the Democrats won this huge landslide in 1974, only the vote for them was the same as it was four years earlier in 1970. The difference being the extraordinary drop-off of Republicans.
SCHNEIDER: This year, conservatives are not just embarrassed, many of them are angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is certainly appears to be like the final nail in the coffin. For six years the conservatives have gotten basically lip service from this administration, they've been used and abused.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans are totally dependent on the conservative vote. Here is why. CNN's polls show liberals voting solidly Democratic. Republicans have lost the middle. Moderates favor Democrats by nearly 2-1. More than 60 percent of conservatives still plan to vote Republican, but nearly a third of them say they'll support the Democrat. And if conservatives are embarrassed by the congressional scandals, a lot of them could stay home just as they did after Watergate.
The White House hopes they'll put the scandal aside.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Come Election Day, the question is whether people are going to be voting on the basis of disgusting IMs between a grown man and a young man, or something that's probably more important to everybody, which is safety, security and prosperity.
SCHNEIDER: Don't know yet, but experts say a lot of new races could be in play that were not in play a week ago.
STUART ROTHENBERG, ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: And I think the biggest question is, could there be a whole set of seats that we haven't been looking at that, because the focus is on Republicans and missteps and misdeeds, suddenly come into play in the next few weeks? I think it's likely that there are races that right now, we can't even identify.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: That rumbling noise you hear may be the political landscape shifting. And those people you see running for cover? They're Republicans -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Bill, thanks very much.
Bill Schneider doing some good reporting for us. Bill Schneider and, as you saw earlier, Kathleen Koch and Dana Bash, they are all part of the best political team on television.
Another example today of election year damage control. Republican Congressman Don Sherwood is airing a T.V. ad apologizing for having an extramarital affair. And he denies that he abused the woman he had an affair with as she has claimed. Sherwood is in a tough fight for reelection in northeastern Pennsylvania against Democrat Chris Carney.
And remember, for the latest campaign news at any time, check out the political ticker at CNN.com/ticker.
Up next, it's one of the craziest and closest Senate showdowns in the nation. Will Republican incumbent George Allen's mistakes bring him down? I'll ask Democratic challenger Jim Webb about Allen's stumbles and his own.
Plus, more on the Foley scandal's impact on voters. Donna Brazile and J.C. Watts, they're standing by for today's "Strategy Session".
You're in the SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
In a midterm election year already filled with suspense and drama, the Virginia Senate race clearly stands out right now. I recently interviewed the Republican incumbent. And we had a very interesting interview about his Jewish heritage and all the other mistakes that he has made. That incumbent, George Allen, was supposed to have a very easy time of it, but he now finds himself clearly on the ropes because of those stumbles.
But now the question is this: can his opponent make the most of it?
Joining us now, James Webb, the former Secretary of the Navy. He's the Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate from Virginia.
Mr. Secretary, thanks very much for coming in. By all accounts, this is a dead heat right now, the polling shows in Virginia. Why is that? Because George Allen was supposedly well on his way to a victory.
JAMES WEBB, (D) VIRGINIA SENATE CANDIDATE: Well, I think a good part of it is the message that we've been putting out. Obviously, you know, the mistakes -- so-called mistakes of the Allen campaign have gotten a lot of attention, but what that has done is caused people to focus on this race throughout the country.
And what I've been saying consistently from February to today is that we need to reorient our national security posture, we need to address the issues of economic imbalance in the country, and we need to focus on the abuses of power of the presidency. And I think that's -- you know, people are starting relate to that.
BLITZER: Now, everybody knows about George Allen's missteps, the macaca comment, the reaction when a reporter asked him whether he had Jewish roots, allegations that he used to use racial slurs. But there have been accusations about you as well, including an article you wrote in "The Washingtonian" magazine many years ago, that was very negative as far as women in combat are concerned, suggesting the only women who might want to join the U.S. Navy would be horny women. Since then, you've backed away from that.
But explain to our viewers what your thinking was then and what your thinking is now about women in the U.S. military.
WEBB: Well, that's a total mischaracterization of the article. The article was about whether women should go into specific combat billets and who should decide. It was an article that was written 27 years ago and there were some rhetorical excesses in the article. We were also throwing bombs at each other back then. I have apologized for some of the rhetorical excess, but I think that the debate was an important debate and needed to happen.
And at the same time, when I was Secretary of the Navy, I opened up more billets to women, operational billets, than any secretary in history. And we've had a very strong level of support from women calling into our campaign after they saw some of the negative stuff that was coming out of the Allen campaign.
BLITZER: So you regret the use of words that you wrote, that one of the halls that the Naval Academy is a horny woman's dream?
WEBB: Yes. I mean, OK, you've said that twice, and, you know, and I've expressed my apology for language that I used back then and, at the same time, I'm going to say it again, I opened up more combat, or more operational billets to women than any Secretary of Navy in history.
And if you look at my staff -- there's a term in the law that says, res ipsa loquitur, "the thing speaks for itself". My campaign manager is a woman, my deputy campaign manager is an African-American woman. Our director of media is a woman. Our deputy director is a woman. My finance director is a woman. And I think that again, I will say the thing speaks for itself.
BLITZER: Let me make sure that I understand. Your current position on women serving in combat units is what? Because it's still a little murky as far as from what I understand.
WEBB: What I have said is that I am totally comfortable with where the military is today. This was never an issue about whether women should serve in combat. It was whether they should serve in specific billets, such as the infantry and the artillery, and also who should decide. And the military has been deciding that.
I've had a tremendous amount of support from serving women in the military over the years. I've visited a number of commands at the invitation of female officers. And in fact, one of the four women who had participated in the original press conference by George Allen about this issue, one of the Naval Academy graduates, got so upset with the ad that he ran that she has endorsed our campaign, as of last week. And we've also had other female Naval Academy graduates, one of whom who assisted us in cutting an ad and defending my position and explaining it.
BLITZER: Do you think...
WEBB: Now can we talk about foreign policy?
BLITZER: We can talk about foreign policy, but I want to get your thoughts on George Allen and the allegations that he used a racial epithet. Do you believe George Allen is a racist?
WEBB: I have been saying since day one when there was an article that came out this spring when I was on the campaign trail during the primary about George Allen that I do not believe it's for me to comment on this stuff. It's irrelevant to what I'm trying to do. I said the same thing after we walked off of the floor, when we had our debate after the comment about his Jewish heritage. And I said the thing again on the issue that you're addressing, that I've got a limited amount of time, I got 34 days to talk about what I want to do as a United States senator. And that is to improve our national security posture, to address the issues of economic inequality in this country, which -- which have become very serious, and to talk about the abuse of power of the presidency.
BLITZER: Do you see the Mark Foley scandal unfolding here in Washington, that's bringing in the Republican leadership, including the speaker and the majority leader, and all sorts of complaints, having any impact, politically, on Republicans in the state of Virginia?
WEBB: You know, I have -- I have hardly got time to read my issue papers and my e-mails right now.
And the only thing I will say about that whole scandal is that there is accountability to leadership. And if the leadership did not act properly, then, there should be accountability.
But I have -- I have -- I'm -- I'm just not in a position to give you an opinion on that.
BLITZER: On Iraq, what would you do right now, if you were in the United States Senate? WEBB: You know, Wolf, I was on your show probably close to a year before we invaded Iraq, and you asked me then -- your question was, well, I don't -- maybe it isn't whether we should invade Iraq, but when.
And I said to you then, no, why don't -- let's talk about whether. And I -- you know, I was an early voice warning against the implications of invading and occupying Iraq.
And I have been saying for more than two years, before I ever decided to run for the Senate, that what we need to do is, A, get a clear statement from this administration that it has no desire for permanent basis in Iraq, and, secondly, that we need to convene the countries in that region who have cultural and historical ties to Iraq in some sort of an international conference, where we can bring a diplomatic solution and get our combat forces out of there, at the same time, preserving our ability to address terrorism issues, whether they are in Iraq or anywhere else.
I think that's a decent formula. It's similar to what we did in Afghanistan, after the '01 invasion, when we convened the countries around Afghanistan and brought them to the table. And it's similar to what Secretary Baker did after Gulf War I in the Madrid conference.
And I -- I'm going to be optimistic here. And I'm looking at this commission that Secretary Baker is now leading, and I'm hoping that, after the election, that this will be something that is proposed.
BLITZER: James Webb is in a very, very tight race with George Allen. We will be watching that in these final five weeks.
Thanks very much, Mr. Secretary, for coming in.
WEBB: OK. Thank you. Good to be with you.
BLITZER: Jim Webb is the former Navy secretary.
Up next: the Foley scandal and the battle for Congress of control. Will the controversy keep conservative voters home on November 7?
Plus: Dennis Hastert points fingers at the other party and at the news media. Is that a smart strategy? I will ask two political experts, Donna Brazile and J.C. Watts. They're standing by live, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In today's "Strategy Session": Some House members could find themselves getting subpoenaed to testify in the Mark Foley scandal, even as campaigning for next month's elections clearly heating up right now.
And joining us right now, our CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, along with former Republican Congressman and CNN political analyst J.C. Watts.
What a story coming at a time -- and I just want to remind our viewers what is at stake in the House and the Senate. Right now, we estimate that there are at least 22 seats -- 22 seats in the House of Representatives -- we got a map up showing -- that -- that are clearly at stake right now, clearly in play. All -- all of them are Republican-held right now.
And, in the U.S. Senate, we estimate there are eight seats up for grabs, seven of them Republican, one Democratic. That would be New Jersey, where Bob Menendez finds himself in some trouble against Tom Kean Jr.
I guess the stakes couldn't be higher right now. And this Foley scandal clearly shapes that landscape.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, the political environment all year long favored Democrats.
In all of the generic horse polls, Democrats led by five, in some cases, 10 points. What has happened since this Foley scandal erupted is that more seats are now in play for Democrats. The good news is that Rahm Emanuel, along with Howard Dean and Chuck Schumer, they have the resources now to pour into these districts.
Many of these candidates have been waging really competitive campaigns. I think the situation now for Democrats is very, very good going into Election Day.
BLITZER: What do you think, J.C.?
J.C. WATTS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, I honestly would have thought it was more, because I have seen some maps where you have got as many as 35 to 37. And that is when I thought it was awful for Republicans -- 22, we think that's just bad.
But I do think this Foley deal is going to have a much greater impact. And, as this investigation unfolds, I think the American people are waiting to see if members of Congress have bought into an ideology that says the only thing right is to get by, and the only thing wrong is to get caught. And -- and that's not good for anybody.
But I -- and I think Republicans will probably pay a -- probably pay a larger price for that, because we're in the majority.
BLITZER: The speaker, Dennis Hastert, came out today, defended himself, said he was not stepping down. Listen to this little clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Ultimately, any time that a person has to, as a leader, be on the hot seat and he is a detriment to the party, you know, there ought to be a change. I became speaker in a situation like that. I don't think that's the case. I said I haven't done anything wrong, obviously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Is he -- as some -- as some pundits are suggesting -- certainly, yesterday, they were suggesting -- is he toast?
BRAZILE: Well, look, today, one congressman in Kentucky, Mr. Lewis, decided to cancel a fund-raising event that Speaker Hastert was supposed to be the headliner.
The speaker is in real trouble. I don't know if he will step down. I believe, if I was a Republican, I would say, Mr. Speaker, let's step down. Let's clean up house right now. Let's not wait until Election Day.
But, clearly, he is going to be a point of this discussion. And the members of the Congress will have to decide if they want him to come into the district.
BLITZER: He came out fighting today, though.
WATTS: Well, Wolf, and -- and I think, over the last four or five days, we have seen the speaker do more press than we have seen him do in the last four or five years.
And, as I have said before, I think you have to be aggressive, in being out with the American people, talking about this, answering questions.
You know, Wolf, Donna, Denny Hastert literally was, before last Friday, the most respected member in the Republican conference, because members really did trust him. Other than what we have seen in the last two or three days, with some members taking shots at him and trying to distance themselves -- and I understand that. I understand what Ron Lewis is doing.
But -- but we have had some members in leadership that have kind of distanced themselves from him. I think the rank-and-file members are taking a wait-and-see approach. It may be costly political, but I'm not sure they're willing to throw the speaker overboard, based on their trust for him prior to this incident.
BLITZER: Some of members -- some of the Republican leaders in the House who were -- who are trying to protect themselves were not just any members, Republican leaders.
But the majority leader, John Boehner, was saying, well, I didn't know this and I did that.
Certainly, the -- Roy Blunt, the number-three leader in the -- the Republican leader, the -- the majority whip, he was suggesting, well, I would have done it differently.
And Tom Reynolds, who runs the Republican congressional committee which is in charge of trying to get Republicans reelected, he said, you know what? I tried. I reported to the supervisor. And that was the speaker. And he didn't necessarily handle it the right way.
WATTS: Well, and I -- and I think -- and I think the American people will accept the fact that maybe it was mishandled.
But -- but, Wolf, think about that. You know, if -- if -- if something like that is going on with -- with a kid, you know, and I go and tell Donna, the thing that I would think, and Donna would probably say to me, J.C., why didn't you deal with it?
BRAZILE: Absolutely.
WATTS: Why didn't you address it?
So, I don't think that we can put all the fault in the speaker's lap on this thing. I think, as this thing unfolds, we will probably see that many people mishandled it. I'm -- I'm not saying the motives were bad for the way they handled it. I'm just saying I think we might find that more than the speaker ought to be in the loop of blame.
BLITZER: The speaker, also, in an interview with "The Chicago Tribune," and -- and today once again suggesting, you know what? Democrats are behind some of this. They're fueling this fire. ABC News is way out there, trying to undermine the Republicans, the liberal news media elite, all of that.
Listen to what the speaker said on this subject earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASTERT: So, you know, we have a good story to tell.
Our friends on the other side of the aisle really don't have a story to tell. And maybe they're resolving to -- another way to -- to -- another political tactic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Well, look, desperate men will do desperate things.
And the truth is, is that, since 1996, they have known about Mr. Foley. They warned pages. There's a lot to be told in this whole story.
But he is the speaker of the House. He has run a very partisan Congress. And he should accept full responsibility.
And -- and it's -- Bay Buchanan and other conservatives are right. He should step down. But this story that, somehow or another, Democrats are to blame, or the liberal media are to blame, or gay and lesbian Americans are to blame, that is just foolish nonsense.
This is a problem. Mr. Foley is to blame. And the speaker and the leadership should take full responsibility.
WATTS: You know, Wolf, I think there's a deeper question here, Wolf. What is it about the culture of Congress that we would have about five or six members over the last year, Republican and Democrat, member on Appropriations sending money back home to, you know -- for self-interest, a leader in the Republican leadership having to resign because of this network of deceit -- deceit -- and trying to gain power, and, you know, two members just in the last three weeks resign. They're checking into alcoholics -- a rehabilitation facility.
What is in the culture of Washington that would -- that we would find these kind of things? And I think there's a much deeper question here than this Mark Foley thing, as bad as it is.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: J.C. and Donna, unfortunately, we have got to leave it there right there, because I'm told we're out of time. But you know what? This subject is not going away, and either are the two of you.
Thanks very much, Donna Brazile and J.C. Watts. Always good to have you here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And Donna and J.C., as our viewers know, they are part of the best political team on television.
Coming up: a day of mourning in Pennsylvania's Amish country. Troopers escort horse-drawn carriages to the funerals of four of the Amish schoolgirls killed by a gunman. The latest on the somber farewells, that's straight ahead.
Also, can anything be done to rein in surging sectarian violence in Iraq? The secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, makes an urgent appeal, makes a surprise visit to Baghdad. I will speak about that and more with our man in Baghdad, Michael Ware. That's coming up in the next hour.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check in with Zain Verjee to get a closer look at some other important stories making news.
Hi, Zain.
VERJEE: Hi, Wolf.
Dozens of horse-drawn buggies brought mourners today to funerals for four of the five Amish schoolgirls killed by a gunman. The fifth funeral will take place tomorrow. Five other young girls remain hospitalized.
Police say gunman Charles Roberts burst into a one-room Amish schoolhouse in rural Pennsylvania on Monday, and shot 10 female students. He then killed himself.
Thousands of Goodyear union workers are on strike. Workers at about 16 Goodyear Tire and Rubber company plants in 10 U.S. states and Canada walked off the job today. This came after the world's third largest tire maker and the United Steel Workers of America failed to agree on a new contract. Goodyear says production won't be affected. Moments from now, former Hewlett-Packard Chairman Patricia -- Dunn is expected to surrender to authorities in California. Dunn is scheduled to appear at the Santa Clara County Superior Courthouse for an arraignment date. She was charged yesterday, along with Hewlett- Packard's former chief ethics officer and three investigators. They face felony criminal charges in the company's probe to find the source of media leaks. Dunn has testified she was assured that the methods that -- that were used were legal.
Air side -- side air bags that help protect the head could save the lives of 2,000 drivers a year. Now, that's according to a new study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. It says the risk of driver deaths in side-impact collisions dropped by more than half in SUVs equipped with head-protecting side air bags.
And the risks fell by as much as 37 percent in cars equipped with those air bags -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you for that.
Up next: He resigned in disgrace, and his name front and center in the news, 24/7. But did Mark Foley actually break any laws? We're taking a closer look into that.
And he was embedded with U.S. troops on the front lines in Iraq. I will speak to "TIME" magazine reporter Michael Weisskopf next hour -- how he saved the lives of four soldiers when they came under attack -- all that coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Turning back now to our "Top Story," federal authorities appear to be closer today to a full-scale criminal probe of former Congressman Mark Foley.
As new details come to light, what is not clear, at least so far, is what laws, if any, Foley may have broken.
For more on that, we're joined by our senior Internet producer and legal analyst Alex Wellen.
Alex, thanks very much.
Federal laws potentially that could have been violated include what?
ALEX WELLEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNET PRODUCER & CYBER CRIME ANALYST: Well, in particular, we're looking at a federal enticement law.
Now, there is much we don't know. We want to be very careful. But, particularly when it comes to this law, we want to think about, did the former congressman take substantial steps, maybe using the Internet, to entice a minor to engage in sexual activity?
That is the kind of question that we are asking federally. And here's the interesting thing about that law, Wolf. That's the law that federal investigators often use to pose maybe as a minor.
So, what I'm saying is that, even if there was no sex involved, even if there was not a minor involved, if the former congressman believed that he was talking to a minor and took these substantial steps, it could be problematic.
BLITZER: Now, Foley's attorney, as you know insists there was never -- and I'm quoting now -- "never been any inappropriate sexual contact with a minor."
What is -- what is the definition of a minor? What, in other words, is the age of a minor, according to state or federal law?
WELLEN: Very -- very complicated. This federal enticement law deals with people who are under the age of 18, but it doesn't stop there. There is a wrinkle. It has to be illegal sexual activity, depending upon the state law, so we have to look at different states.
And, Wolf, the interesting thing about cyberspace is, these communications, it's hard to determine where a crime took place, or at least started and ended.
BLITZER: Is there a different age in Florida?
WELLEN: There is a different age in Florida.
In Florida, there a couple of different laws that might be implicated. And, again, there are many different jurisdictions. But, in Florida, there's one law that deals with giving material harmful to a minor. A minor is defined as 18 in Florida. Also, there's a law that says that it's a second-degree, up to -- punishable up to 15 years in prison.
And, again, we don't necessarily say this happened, but it's illegal in Florida, if you're 25 -- 24 years or older, and you engage in sex with someone who is 16 or 17 years old. So, these are the kinds of laws that we want to be looking at in conjunction with the federal laws, of course.
BLITZER: Alex Wellen, thanks very much for updating us on that. I suspect we are going to be hearing a lot more about the law in the coming days and weeks.
Still to come: the House speaker, the Mark Foley scandal, and the blame game. Jack Cafferty is standing by. He wants to know: What is your reaction to Dennis Hastert blaming Democrats and ABC News for the release of the Foley scandal story?
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: I want to go right back to Zain. There's a story developing out West.
What is going on, Zain? VERJEE: Wolf, we want to bring you update on John Mark Karr, the man who claimed he was with JonBenet Ramsey the night that she died. Now, that, we know, proved to be untrue.
Now, the Associated Press is reporting that a judge in California has dismissed child pornography charges against him. The prosecutors said that they just didn't have enough evidence -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We will see what that means, whether he walks free or not.
Zain, we will keep our viewers updated on this story -- Zain Verjee reporting.
Let's go to Jack Cafferty in New York -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: The question, Wolf, is: What is your reaction to House Speaker Dennis Hastert blaming the Democrats and ABC News for the release of the Foley scandal story?
Bernie in Texas writes: "That's the total end. I have had it with the lies, the bungling, the corruption of this Republican gang of hacks."
Tell us how you really feel, Bernie.
"I have never voted a straight ticket for either party in my life, but I'm going to now. Iraq made me sick. This covering up for a pedophile makes me angry. I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore."
M. in Pasadena, California: "The Foley charade is just that, and, conveniently, a month before the elections. The Democrats, used to sex scandals, are a little too outraged for my tastes. The Chihuahua, Pelosi, is barking at her own reflection."
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: John in Riverton, Wyoming: "I think Speaker Hastert is quite correct. This sort of story, cleverly timed for maximum political benefit, is about what I would expect from both Democrats and from the mainstream news media."
Brad in Cedar Rapids, Iowa: "Speaking as a gay Republican, I'm tired of hearing about the Republicans blaming the Democrats for their problems. Republicans need to take responsibility for their own mess. The last couple of days have made up my mind. My vote is going to the Democrats."
Terry in Santa Fe, New Mexico: "That loud sound you hear is the Democratic base applauding Speaker Hastert's decision to stay the course."
And Michael in Minneapolis writes: "Foley fallout. Who said what? When did they know? how many people will lose their jobs over this one congressman? It's the best reality show of the season. I'm hooked" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, so -- but here's the key question. And I want you to weigh in.
Will Hastert, other Republicans, will their strategy work, trying to blame Democrats and the elite news media, ABC News, specifically? Will it work in galvanizing, in -- in angering the Republican base, and they will then turn up and vote?
CAFFERTY: I -- I don't think so. And, based on the e-mails we're getting, Republican after Republican, just in the batch I read, saying, I'm going to vote Democratic.
I think this -- this story is repulsive to a lot of people on both sides of the political aisle. You don't send kids to Washington to learn about our government, and have them preyed on by our elected representatives, have their bosses, the leadership of one of the chambers that they are elected to serve in, know about what's going on, and do nothing about it.
That offends everybody, I think. It should.
BLITZER: Jack Cafferty, thank you. See you in a few moments.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
