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The Situation Room

Congressional Page's Lawyer Responds; Republican Senator John Warner Discusses Iraqi Government's Responsibilities; Gay Republicans React to Foley Scandal

Aired October 06, 2006 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, it's 7 p.m. here in Washington and it's seven days since the former Congressman Mark Foley resigned in disgrace. We'll hear from the lawyer for a page at the center of the storm. Will that same storm sweep away the speaker of the House or other top Republicans?

It's 2 a.m. in Baghdad. A key Republican backer of the war is just back from Iraq with a grim assessment. We'll tell you about the warning coming from the senator, John Warner.

And it's 8 a.m. Saturday in Pyongyang as North Korea threatens to test a nuclear weapon, maybe this weekend. The United Nations Security Council threatens right back. Don't do it or else.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

It's the scandal consuming Washington now for a full week and now we're also hearing directly from a former congressional page's lawyer. That former page allegedly received lurid, online messages from former Congressman Mark Foley. We'll hear from Rusty Dornin in Foley's district of Florida in a few moments. Dana Bash will join us from Capitol Hill, but first let's go to CNN's Brian Todd. He's got the latest developments. Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, from his attorney we have the name of a former page who is very crucial to this investigation, 21-year-old Jordan Edmund. He is one of the former pages referred to in ABC News' original report on explicit instant messages allegedly sent by Congressman Foley.

Today CNN spoke with Edmunds' attorney, the well-known Stephen Jones of Oklahoma who also represented Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. Jones tells us he's been in contact with the FBI, but his client has not, yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): A former congressional page at the center of a Foley scandal, a young man who faces many questions. His high- powered attorney answers some of them.

STEPHEN JONES, ATTY. FOR FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: Jordan hasn't done anything wrong. He's a witness. He will cooperate fully with the investigation, both the House investigation and the Department of Justice.

TODD: Stephen Jones says he represents Jordan Edmund but Jones would not confirm Edmund exchanged instant messages with Congressman Foley. Edmund finished the page program in 2002, the alleged exchanges first reported by ABC News mistakenly left with a user name on the network's Web site traced by a blogger, CNN and other news outlets to Edmund include this.

From maf54, I.D.'d by ABC as Foley. You're in the boxers, too. The reply: Nope, just got home. Maf54: Well, strip down and get relaxed.

JONES: It reads like some of the novels that are on the market, but I haven't read all of them and I don't know whether they're true and they've been edited. I'm still playing catch up.

TODD: Pressed further on when these alleged communications might have taken place.

JONES: I don't know what the allegations are, other than Congressman Foley allegedly acted improperly. I don't know whether he did or not.

TODD: Another key question, was there physical contact with the congressman?

JONES: I'm certain that there was no physical involvement between Jordan and Mr. Foley.

TODD: We also asked Jones about an item on "The Drudge Report", citing two people close to Edmund, saying he goaded Foley into the exchanges as part of a prank. ABC News reports that is not accurate and Jones seems to agree.

JONES: From what I do know, this was not a prank.

TODD: CNN, along with one of our affiliates, has also spoken with Brad Wilson, who was a page a year before Edmund. Wilson says Congressman Foley's behavior made some pages uncomfortable. He says Foley never made any overtures toward him, but did approach a friend.

BRAD WILSON, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: He asked my roommate when he was coming to Florida and then followed that question with the phrase 18 is the magic number and that threw up red flags and it was bizarre for all the pages.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Wilson said he thought that meant the age of 18. We called Mark Foley's attorney, David Roth, for reaction to Stephen Jones' comments and Brad Wilson's account, Mr. Roth has not yet returned our calls. Wolf?

BLITZER: Brian Todd thanks very much. And coming up, my interview with the lawyer for the former page -- that would be Stephen Jones. That's coming up this hour.

Meanwhile, the scandal is hovering over the Capitol with all eyes on the House Speaker Dennis Hastert among other top Republicans. Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash is joining us now live with more on this part of the story. Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, a day after the House speaker went before the cameras to accept responsibility for the Foley scandal, today he took his damage control effort behind closed doors, making phone calls to conservative leaders, to fellow colleagues making his case that his resignation would not help the party, it would hurt it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): GOP leaders who took shots at the speaker earlier in the week renewed their support.

REP. ADAM PUTNAM (R), FLORIDA: Let me have the opportunity to go on record. I completely support the speaker of the House, and I was glad that he came out and shared his thoughts yesterday.

BASH: And allies rallied around him in a more public way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The speaker of the House in my view did not know that any of that had occurred.

BASH: Senior GOP officials are voicing hope the worst is over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say the panic is out of people's voices, but a deep-seeded concern remains. Those members that have been polling regularly and we're in that season where members of Congress are doing regular tracking polls have found a dip in Republican ratings across the board.

BASH: On the campaign trail, Republicans in tight races are still seeking cover from the Foley fallout. Tom Kean, Jr., a Republican candidate for Senate in New Jersey announced Hastert should resign as speaker. He is the head of the institution and this happened on his watch. In Indiana's conservative ninth district, Baron Hill became the second Democrat running for Congress to air a TV ad using Foley against his GOP opponent raising questions about where his campaign money is coming from.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And $77,000 from the House leadership who knew about, but did nothing to stop sexual predator Congressman Foley.

BASH: And after a Florida debate Thursday night, Republican Clay Shaw defended Hastert carefully.

REP. CLAY SHAW (R), FLORIDA: Until the -- all of the facts are out there I think it would be wrong to be in judgment of anybody. BASH: Ron Lewis of Kentucky was the first of several nervous Republicans to cancel planned events with the speaker. His spokesman concedes Hastert's campaign schedule has been quote, "pared down". However, the speaker will appear at a Chicago fund-raiser with the president next week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, some Republicans are trying to make the case that perhaps the Foley scandal may not have the impact that some Republicans are worried about; for example, David Winston of The Winston Group just conducted a poll. He tells CNN that what he is seeing is that there is virtually no nationwide change in how Americans intend to vote. He also says that Mark Foley has an 87 percent I.D., which is extraordinarily high. Democrats on the other hand, Wolf, they are saying that they're doing their own polls and some of the closest races and they are seeing an impact. Wolf?

BLITZER: Dana thanks very much. Dana Bash reporting from the hl.

Investigations into former Congressman Mark Foley's lurid Internet messages to former congressional pages are unfolding here in Washington, but what about in Florida and the district he represented until one week ago? CNN's Rusty Dornin is joining us now from that district that includes West Palm Beach. Rusty?

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, state investigators will be looking into whether those electronic exchanges involving Mark Foley broke any Florida state laws. Meantime, a local investigator told us that proving cyber crime can be difficult and often complex.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DORNIN (voice-over): His office is in lockdown. Capitol police won't allow anyone to touch Mark Foley's computers in his office, but investigators. In his home district in Florida, his congressional office is also locked, just a phone number left telling the media where to call. Governor Jeb Bush has said the Florida Department of Law Enforcement will help with an investigation of any possible wrongdoing by Foley in Florida.

The first rule is for there to be a crime in Florida one of the two people involved in an electronic communication must be in the state. In one instant message exchange posted online that ABC says was between Foley and a minor, the minor asks what are you doing in Pensacola? The answer: Now in my hotel room. Detective Dave Lefont has investigated cyber sex crimes in Florida for six years. We asked him to take a look at the instant messages that have been made public so far.

(on camera): What you've seen so far on these instant messages is there anything that's breaking Florida law?

DET. DAVE LEFONT, WEST PALM BEACH POLICE: I haven't found anything yet, no.

DORNIN: Because it hasn't crossed the line.

LEFONT: Well it depends who you ask, but from a police standpoint in trying to arrest someone and develop evidence to charge someone with a crime, I don't see anything yet.

DORNIN (voice-over): Soliciting sex and sending pornographic material to minors are both considered to be crimes here, but just talking about sex and even flirting about it any with anyone under the age of 18 isn't illegal.

(on camera): Even though he's sexually explicit it's not breaking the law. What would he have to do that would break the law?

LEFONT: The person communicating here with the child would have to ask the child to commit a sexual act here.

DORNIN: Like masturbation?

LEFONT: That would be a sexual act, yes.

DORNIN (voice-over): One of the toughest things investigations have to prove in cyber sex crime cases is that the communication was actually written by the suspect. To do this, computers must be confiscated and logs examined to see where the person was when they logged on to the Internet. The I.P. address can often pinpoint that and show where they were online.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DORNIN: Obviously, the investigator we spoke to did not have access to all of the electronic exchanges both instant messages and e- mails. So we have no idea whether there were other exchanges that might be -- have broken Florida law, but the state investigators here will be turning all of that evidence over to the federal authorities. Wolf?

BLITZER: Rusty Dornin, thank you very much. From Rusty Dornin let's go up to New York and Jack Cafferty. He's standing by with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. The former attorney general, Ramsey Clark, that whacko relic from the McGovern era may have the best deal of any lawyer around. He's representing Saddam Hussein at his trials in Iraq. These are trials, as you may have noticed, that go on and on and on and on. If Clark is charging by the hour he will be a rich man.

You see, Saddam's trials may never end. The evidence, the testimony, the revolving judges, the killing of the judge's relatives, none of this stuff matters. Clark says that Iraq cannot afford to convict and execute Saddam Hussein. He predicts catastrophic violence if that should happen as opposed to that kind of violence they have now.

He says it'll get even worse. Clark says Saddam's Sunni Muslim tribe, all 1.5 million of them, would go nuts. Clark says it would be the end of civilization as we know it in the birthplace of civilization. Saddam has already been tried for murder in one of his trials and a verdict was expected October the 16th.

This week the court announced there will be no verdict and no new date has been set. So the question is this, Saddam Hussein's lawyer, Ramsey Clark, says civilization would come to an end in Iraq if his client's convicted. Do you agree?

Your thoughts, CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. You know what? He makes a certain amount of sense, Wolf. I keep wondering why these trials go on and on and on. Surely they can't be lacking evidence against this guy, but I'm afraid they're probably scared that country would go up like a keg of dynamite if they took Saddam out and shot him.

BLITZER: But you make a good point. It's already going up big- time already.

CAFFERTY: True. That's very true.

BLITZER: Jack thanks. We'll see you in a little while.

Coming up, a Republican senator just back from Iraq offers a very gloomy assessment of the reality on the ground. We'll find out why he's sounding a dire warning right now. John Warner, the chairman of the Senate Arms Services Committee.

Plus, a former congressional page, one of several in the center of the storm, his lawyer now speaking out about the disgraced congressman and taking on Internet rumors that the scandal is just part of a bad prank.

Also, one congressman's controversial comments on this story, is he trying to shift the blame from where it belongs? I'll ask him.

Stay with us. You're THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A key Republican supporter of the war in Iraq says it is frightening to think what would happen in Iraq should the government in Baghdad fail. Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, is standing by with more. This is a pretty important development, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It's no secret that U.S. policy in Iraq is not working out as well as the military had hoped, but when the top Republican on the Senate Arms Services Committee begins expressing doubts, that's a wake-up call.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SOUNDS) MCINTYRE (voice-over): Citing what he calls the exponential rise in the number of deaths, both U.S. and Iraqi, along with the failure of the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to disarm the warring militias, Republican Senator John Warner is sounding a dire warming while he still has hope, it's fading fast.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA), ARMED SERVICES CHAIRMAN: I assure you in two or three months if this thing hasn't come to fruition and if this level of violence is not under control and this government able to function, I think it's the responsibility of our government internally to determine is there a change of course that we should take.

MCINTYRE: Just back from meeting with Iraqi officials and U.S. commanders in Baghdad, Warner is giving voice to what many inside and outside the Pentagon are coming to believe, namely, the U.S. strategy of standing down as Iraqi forces stand up is failing.

COL. DOUG MACGREGOR (RET.), U.S. ARMY: This change that the senator is talking about is long overdue. We have no business occupying central Iraq. It has been enormously wasteful. The change that's indicated is departure at the earliest opportunity.

MCINTYRE: But even as Warner says the situation is in his words, drifting sideways, he argues withdrawal would simply turn the Iraqi oilfields into a treasury for the world terrorist movement. And he expressed continued faith in U.S. Commanders.

WARNER: We've got to stand behind them and give those military operations the time needed to succeed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: So what went wrong? Senator Warner blames himself along with former CENTCOM Commander General Tommy Franks who he says failed to ask the right questions about Iraq's history and culture, questions that would have helped them anticipate how difficult the transition democracy would be. Wolf?

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thank you.

The U.N. Security Council is warning North Korea not to carry out its planned test of a nuclear weapon. In a statement today, the council warned of unspecified consequences if North Korea goes ahead with the test, which could happen perhaps even as early as this weekend. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has the latest now on the escalating situation. Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, nerves on edge around the world about North Korea's nuclear intentions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Il, happily waved to his military commanders as world pressure mounts for him to cancel plans to conduct his country's first nuclear test. Pyongyang's announcement has thrown diplomatic efforts at the United Nations into a frenzy, if there is a nuclear detonation, the world changes.

JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: This immediately affects the calculations of South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, all of whom might decide that they need to have their own independent nuclear arsenal as well. If North Korea gets away with this Iran would be encouraged to go forward.

STARR: Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill sounded ominous this week, saying North Korea can have a future or it can have these weapons. It cannot have both. But the Bush administration is avoiding talk of a preemptive strike or a military response afterwards.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: That's a decision for the country. It's a decision for presidents.

STARR: There is plenty of U.S. firepower in the region, 28,000 troops in South Korea and some 20 warships based out of Japan. Half a dozen B-52 bombers are in Guam, but what is the target? U.S. Intelligence shows North Korea is preparing several sites for a potential test. But one intelligence analyst told CNN it's a game of nuclear three-card motet, trying to force the CIA to guess which hole in the ground is the right one.

The first signs of a nuclear detonation will come from more than 100 underground monitoring stations around the world. Spy planes such as this nuclear sniffer (ph) are already flying overhead and satellites are trained on the region 24/7.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: But will the intelligence community really be able to quickly determine what North Korea has done if there is a test? Intelligence analysts tell CNN that after the July missile test in North Korea, little useful intelligence data was ever collected. Wolf?

BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

Still to come, gay in the GOP, the political closet on Capitol Hill that's creating some serious tension in the Republican Party.

Plus, a form congressional page and his online exchange with the disgraced Congressman Mark Foley -- that would be the former congressman. His lawyer joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Capitol scandal surrounding former Congressman Mark Foley is highlighting what for some is a very, difficult position, being gay and Republican. We're going to have a complete report on that. CNN's Kathleen Koch is standing by, but this is also raising serious problems right now for President Bush who is trying to get his message out only weeks before the midterm congressional elections.

Let's go to Suzanne Malveaux. She's joining us from the White House. Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, as one White House insider put it, he says regarding Hastert this is not a policy issue, but a management issue. This official also saying that when it comes to Republicans, it's not like they've been painted as the party of pedophilia. He says that the White House can afford to back Hastert. So the focus now is really getting to those midterm elections November 7 and also to stop the bleeding, two things that have been very difficult for this White House the past week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): The president's megaphone might as well have been turned off.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They say that Iraq is a distraction in the war on terror. I strongly disagree.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush's three-day campaign swing out West was meant to try out new sharp rhetoric, to paint the Democrats as weak on terror in the lead-up to the midterm elections.

BUSH: They talk tough on terror, but when it comes time and when their votes are counted their softer side comes out.

MALVEAUX: But the Foley flood in Washington all but drowned out his message, the congressional cyber sex scandal grabbing headlines, feeding 24-hour news.

THOMAS MANN, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It just suffocated the president's message. It ensured that it would get little play in the media and little public attention.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush struggled to get the attention back on to his agenda.

(SOUNDS)

MALVEAUX: But a series of rapid-fire school shootings in three states forced him to confront the news of the day. At the George W. Bush Elementary School in California, he addressed school safety and then made the awkward turn to the Foley scandal.

BUSH: Families have every right to expect that when they send their children to be a congressional page in Washington that those children will be safe.

MALVEAUX: While distancing itself from the controversy, the White House also tried to minimize the political damage surrounding the Republican leadership's handling of the crisis.

BUSH: I fully support Speaker Hastert's call for an investigation by law enforcement into this matter.

MALVEAUX: As the scandal mushroomed, the president's events on immigration, education and the economy went largely unnoticed, and the frustration grew.

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: If you guys write about the Foley scandal morning, noon and night it seems to me that the president is talking about things that matter.

MALVEAUX: Some political analysts believe it may be too late to turn the tide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no question, but that the modest gains the president made in August and September have now been reversed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now the Foley crisis may have worked for the administration in one sense, of course, Bob Woodward's book "State of Denial" knocked out of the spotlight this week. That book of course charging that President Bush was not honest with the American people in the cost of the Iraq war -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux reporting for us at the White House. Suzanne thanks very much.

Let's get to a sensitive issue right now. The Capitol scandal surrounding the former Congressman Mark Foley is highlighting a very, very difficult position namely being gay and being a Republican.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is watching this part of the story. Kathleen?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it wasn't until congressman -- the scandal broke that Congressman Foley publicly confirmed what many here in Washington knew privately, that he was gay. It's indicative of the struggle that many homosexuals grapple with when members of a largely conservative party that mobilizes its base by campaigning against issues like same-sex marriage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH (voice-over): In the nation's Capitol, some gay Republicans have been open about their sexual orientation -- retired Congressman Jim Kolbe of Arizona, former Wisconsin Congressman Steve Gunnederson (ph), top campaign aide and vice presidential daughter Mary Cheney. Many more served behind the scenes in Washington as aides, staffers, advisers and strategists in every branch of government, but some in the conservative-dominated party choose like Congressman Mark Foley, to hide their orientation and protect their jobs. Chuck Wolfe, president of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund, says he's been encouraging Foley to come out of the closet for the last 15 years.

CHUCK WOLFE, GAY & LESBIAN VICTORY FUND: In Mark's case he was not comfortable coming out and I think it was because Mark was simply in a situation where he thought it would affect his ability to get reelected. KOCH: The Log Cabin Republicans, which lobby for inclusiveness in the GOP, warn the party will suffer if it doesn't become more accepting of homosexuals.

PATRICK SAMMON, LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS: Because the vast majority of American people believe that gay and lesbian people should be treated equally and if the Republican Party doesn't become more inclusive then they're not going to be majority party in this country.

KOCH: Some conservative advocacy groups have tried to make homosexuality the centerpiece of the Foley scandal, one the Family Research Council in release claiming quote, "pro-homosexual correctness sow the seeds of the Foley scandal."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sexual orientation is irrelevant to what happened in this situation. Mark Foley's behavior was despicable whether the victims were teenage boys or teenage girls.

KOCH: Still, there is fear in Washington's gay community of a backlash.

WOLFE: Any attempt to go after gay and lesbian Americans who serve their country in public service is a witch hunt and it should not be allowed or encouraged by either political party.

KOCH: When contacted the Republican National Committee referred CNN to the Log Cabin Republicans and then would not return phone calls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: We also did request interviews with current and form gay Republican politicians, staffers. They all turned us down. Wolf, this is clearly a subject that few people want to talk about especially now.

BLITZER: Kathleen, thank you very much for that report.

And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, six major powers say they regret that Iran is refusing United Nations demands to stop enriching uranium. Now Diplomats say they'll discuss possible sanctions against Iran. Representatives from the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China met today in London.

The executive assistant to presidential adviser Karl Rove has resigned. A White House official says Susan Ralston stepped down yesterday over concern her ties to disgraced former Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff might be distracting. Ralston was Abramoff's assistant before working for Rove starting back in 2001.

And the Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper says his country will launch a former protest over U.S. treatment of a Canadian terror suspect. Under its so-called rendition program, the U.S. had sent the man to a Syrian prison. Last month Canada cleared him of any suspicious terrorist activity.

I'm Wolf Blitzer, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Concerning the Mark Foley scandal, who bears responsibility to protect the young, congressional pages from harm? At least one U.S. congressman says while Congress has some responsibility, the pages and their parents, they must also play a role.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We're joined now by Congressman Chris Cannon of Utah. Congressman, thanks very much for coming in. Let's get to some of the controversy. As you know your home state of Utah, you were on KSL, a radio station. And you said these words. I want to play them. And better understand what you meant. Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. CHRIS CANNON (R), UTAH: These kids are actually precocious kids. It looks like maybe this one e-mail was a prank where you had a bunch of kids sitting around egging this guy on, you know. So it's -- the world's a complicated place and we just have to do the best we can.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, Congressman. Let's get a couple of issues that you raise here, precocious kids. You're referring to the former congressional pages who may have received or have engaged in elicit or lewd Internet e-mail with former Congressman Mark Foley. And the criticism of you is that you are blaming the pages instead of blaming Foley. These were 16-year-old guys, basically who worked as congressional pages.

CANNON: Look, in the first place, Foley is the guy who was the predator. And that's where the blame belongs. What we are talking about is what you do in an institution where you have a bunch of kids who are young and who are subject to these kinds of influences. And the answer is we need to do some things at the institution. We did a great deal in 1983. We need to review it now and see if there's anything more. But what I was trying to say there is that kids today are precocious and I gave an example there of one story that was published in Oklahoma.

But I think the point more importantly is for all parents everywhere, not just parents of pages -- we have an environment today where you can't take phones away from kids. You can't take instant messaging away. You can't take text messaging away. And so you have people, you have kids who are subject to these influences. And by the way, they think they are smart. They are precocious. They know a little more than we knew when we were kids. And as a result of that, they may put themselves a little bit more in danger.

And so what I was trying to say in that interview is parents, we will do what we can institutionally. But you have to take some responsibility to tell kids what the limits are. And the kids need to know what those limits are and assert those limits so they can be kept safe from predators like Foley. And of course unfortunately today, we probably have a growing number of predators because we have more pornography available and more people addicted to pornography.

BLITZER: Because the criticism that's been leveled. The comparison is that if a woman dresses provocatively --

CANNON: That's just ridiculous.

BLITZER: And then she's raped. She potentially could be blamed for that kind of assault.

CANNON: And that is just not of course where we are going. But the point here is you don't want your kids to be hurt by predators. And so help them understand what the limits are. This is not about blame. There's only one guy to blame here. That was the guy in power, the guy with authority, the guy who was reaching down to 16, 15-year- old kids and doing things that are improper. That's the blame. And that's the only place I've ever suggested there is blame.

On the other hand, as parents I've got eight kids. I want my kids to understand what the limits are. And I think every wise parent who is concerned about his kids is going to try to help them have rules that will supplement their judgment because 15 and 16-year-olds sometimes don't use great judgment. And so this is about how parents can help protect kids. It has nothing to do with provocativeness or any fault. A 15-year-old kid cannot be at fault when he's dealing with a congressman.

BLITZER: Now the suggestion that you make that there may have been one e-mail showing that this was all a prank where you had a bunch of kids sitting around egging this guy Foley on. Is there any evidence to suggest this was a prank?

CANNON: Well, there was a story in the Oklahoma newspaper where one of these kids I think was from. And the point is not that they are egging him on or that they are in charge. But the kids sometimes lack judgment. And parents need to help them understand where they can exercise and where they should look at limits. And that's what I was trying to say. If I didn't get that out. Actually, I think I probably did, but that's at least the point I was trying to make. Parents need to feel like they can do something to help their kids, to protect their kids, and to help prepare their kids from the circumstances which they may find themselves talking with a predator like Mark Foley.

BLITZER: Of whom you knew quite well. Did you have any idea congressman that this guy had a problem?

CANNON: Well, Mark had exaggerated affectations. I don't think anybody didn't know that he was -- what his orientation was. That didn't mean that anybody had a clue that he was hitting on kids and pages. That's appalling. But his orientation I think was obvious.

BLITZER: In other words, you knew he was a homosexual.

CANNON: Yeah.

BLITZER: But a lot of leaders, at least one or two or maybe even three years ago knew there were suggestions that he was involved in inappropriate e-mail with some of these congressional pages. Here's the question. To those who had that suspicion, who were told yes, there could be a problem, maybe not all the lurid details that we've learned over the past few days. Do they, like Dennis Hastert, the speaker or other congressional Republicans, do they deserve to be punished in effect, be forced out as a result of this?

CANNON: Well it depends what we find out about it. Look, I'm a great supporter of Denny Hastert. I think he's a fine human being. We are one week into this thing and Mr. Foley resigned the first day and left a chaotic environment where we are just finishing up with lots of work to do.

So I think that if somebody's responsible and somebody knew and didn't have, or didn't take the proper steps. Then that needs to be resolved. Somebody may need to resign. We've had a couple of resignations already. On the other hand, I think it's highly premature to jump to the conclusion that the speaker did something inappropriate here. I just think that's wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The Republican Congressman Chris Cannon speaking with me earlier. He's running for reelection in Utah this year. Upon hearing his remarks about the Foley situation, Cannon's Democratic challenger Christian Burridge said he condemns Cannon's words as quote, "outrageous and irresponsible."

Just ahead, he represented Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. Now he's signed on as the legal counsel, that would be a lawyer for a congressional page, a former one caught up in the controversy surrounding the former congressman. My interview with the attorney Stephen Jones. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now on that former congressional page who might figure prominently into the Mark Foley scandal. We've learned the page has now hired the lawyer who once represented the Oklahoma City bomber. Stephen Jones is that lawyer and I spoke with him just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: All of us are familiar, of course, with your work, representing Timothy McVeigh. How did you get involved in this case?

STEPHEN JONES, ATTY. FOR FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: Well, I was telephoned Wednesday and asked if I would represent Jordan, what the problem was. And I met with him probably, oh, within the hour, and we had a nice visit, and I agreed to represent him at that time.

BLITZER: Why does he need a lawyer? JONES: Why does he need a lawyer? Because this is an official investigation being conducted by the Department of Justice, presumably by the House Ethics Committee and, frankly, there is a velocity of media coverage and he wanted somebody that could guide him through it or help guide him through it, explain to him what his obligations were and be with him. And he called me and I'm happy to help him.

BLITZER: Based on what you know, did he have this lurid e-mail exchange with former Congressman Foley?

JONES: I don't know that he did. I've seen the e-mail. I'm having it reviewed. I'm reviewing it myself. I've spent 40 years dealing with bogus documents. Before I would want to say it's a valid or invalid document, I need more time to study it.

BLITZER: Well, what does your client say, though? He knows whether or not he was engaged in this kind of IMs or instant messaging with the former congressman?

JONES: Nice try, Wolf, but you know I can't discuss with you what my client has told me.

BLITZER: So you're right now assessing whether or not the transcripts of these instant messages are, in fact, authentic.

JONES: That is correct.

BLITZER: The whole nature, though, of if in fact they are authentic, what does it mean for your client, basically as part of this investigation?

JONES: Well, I don't think that there's any question that Jordan would prefer his privacy. I mean, the matter is embarrassing. His friends are calling him, they're offering him their support. I'm visiting with you. Clearly, I'm sure that he wishes that he'd never been a House page, maybe.

But, nevertheless, his name has been brought into it and he made it clear to me that he wants to cooperate with the investigation, that whatever he is asked, he will testify under oath truthfully to what he knows that may be relevant. And it's up to other people to decide whether it's relevant.

He also understands that it's important to him. It's important to the House as an institution, which he served. And it occurs within a political context.

Now, against that, there's his right of privacy. I think that some of this creates some danger for him, so I'm sure that he's torn. But, where it came down on was that he would answer the questions and he would do it truthfully and cooperate.

BLITZER: Has he already started cooperating? Has he already been questioned by -- whether state or federal authorities?

JONES: No, I have been in contact with the appropriate authorities, and I believe that they are interested in interviewing him. But again, I'm not directing the investigation.

BLITZER: Could you clarify, Mr. Jones, this whole notion out there -- The Drudge Report suggested it -- that this was all a prank, a hoax that some of these former congressional pages were egging on Mark Foley, if you will. What do you make of this?

JONES: Well, Wolf, I watch you. I watch Susan Candiotti. I don't read The Drudge Report. And, frankly, I haven't read The Drudge Report on this. It's been told to me, what was in it. It's on my desk. It's not a high priority item. But from what I do know, this was not a prank.

BLITZER: This was not a prank, not a hoax. This was a very serious, serious issue?

JONES: Any time I receive telephone calls from the Department of Justice, I assume it's serious. And I assume this is serious.

BLITZER: And this other suggestion that Democratic operatives may have been behind this whole releasing, the timing of this, have you seen any evidence -- I take it your client, Jordan Edmund is not a Democrat. He works for a Republican.

But have you seen any evidence out there based on what you know, Mr. Jones, that this is all part of some sort of Democratic Party conspiracy, or put together by a bunch of Democratic or liberal operatives?

JONES: No, I think the Democrats are, frankly, treating it opportunistic. But I don't have any evidence that they initiated it.

BLITZER: So walk us ahead the next few days. What happens next, from your perspective as the attorney representing one of these key former congressional pages, clearly, at the center of this firestorm?

JONES: Well one of the reasons that I talked with you, Wolf, is first you are a responsible journalist. And secondly, it gives me an opportunity to say that we need the process to go forward. I know it's political, but there's 30-some odd days before the election. And everyone needs to cooperate that has relevant information and give it. And we will be working toward that.

Now, aside from that, I don't think that every page should be tarnished, every congressman should be tarnished. You point the finger at somebody, four fingers point back at you. I would like some respect for the privacy of my client.

I think he's done a courageous thing by his willingness to contact a lawyer, to employ one to assist him, to answer the questions. And I think that's where we should focus. Then, once the results are established, once we know the facts, then we can draw the appropriate lessons and make the appropriate decisions.

BLITZER: Stephen Jones is the attorney for Jordan Edmund, one of the former congressional pages clearly at the center of this uproar. Mr. Jones, thanks very much for coming into THE SITUATION ROOM. JONES: Thank you, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And coming up next, and update on that huge fire at a North Carolina plant. It's still burning. When will the evacuees -- thousands of them -- be able to go home?

And catastrophic violence -- that's what Saddam Hussein's U.S. attorney says will happen if the former dictator is executed. Jack Cafferty taking your e-mails.

Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's check in with Zain Verjee. She's watching some other important stories making news tonight -- Zain?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, state officials say air quality tests show nothing alarming so far in the wake of a spectacular overnight fire at a hazardous waste management plant. Still, thousands of resident near the Apex, North Carolina facility haven't been allowed back home yet. The mayor of Apex says the fire is not expected to be out until tomorrow morning and no one will be allowed to go home, at least until that time.

A Navy corpsman pleaded guilty today to kidnapping and conspiracy in the death of an Iraqi civilian. Seven marines are charged with killing the Iraqi man in April and trying to cover it up. But at his court marshal hearing, the corpsman testified he saw two marines shoot the victim 10 times. Murder charges against him were dropped in return for his testimony.

Vatican theologians say today they're considering revising centuries-old teachings that say infants who die before being baptized go to limbo instead of heaven. Theologians say they have long thought that such children enjoy a state of perfect happiness called limbo, but both Pope Benedict and his predecessor John Paul II urged them to study the issue. One Jesuit scholar says, quote, "all of us have hope for the babies that they will go to heaven." Wolf?

BLITZER: Thank you, Zain -- Zain Verjee reporting.

And up ahead, a bloodbath and catastrophic violence. Saddam Hussein's lawyer says his execution would unleash exactly that. What do you think? Jack Cafferty is taking your e-mail. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's check back with Jack Cafferty in New York -- Jack?

CAFFERTY: Wolf, the question is this hour, Saddam Hussein's lawyer Ramsey Clark says civilization in that country would come to an end if his client is convicted and executed. We asked if you agree with that statement.

Pat writes from Seattle: "Ramsey Clark is correct. There isn't any civilization in Iraq now. The Iraq war was wrong from the beginning since there have been insufficient troops from day one, it was doomed to fail. The notion that Iraq will stand up and we'll stand down was just another lie and the Iraqis know it."

Laura writes from Cleburne, Texas: "Ramsey Clark needs to come home now. His elevator isn't going all of the way to the top floor. I hear they've been looking for him at the home. He hasn't been getting his meds and it always makes him talk crazy."

Kevin in Pennsylvania: "Looks to me like Bush already took care of that himself. Iraq will be a killing field for years to come. I can't see that country ever getting control now."

Paul in Pewakee, Wisconsin: "Take a look around, Jack. There's not much civilization there now."

Floyd in Westbury, New York: "Jack, what the Bush administration should do with Saddam is buy him a dark blue suit, give him back the keys to his palace and give him a big handshake and tell him he's back in charge. Then, bring the troops home. Voila, an exit strategy."

And Ron in Baltimore: "No, I believe the day that Saddam Hussein is put to death for his crimes against humanity, there will be dancing in the streets of Baghdad."

If you didn't see your e-mail here you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile where we post some more of these online -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Thank you, Jack, have a great weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday.

Still ahead, from Afghanistan to Pakistan and Florida, our Hot Shots coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the Hot Shots coming in from our friends of the "Associated Press." Pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.

Afghanistan: British royal Marines entertain children while on patrol. In India, a 6-year-old tightrope walker performs for a small crowd. In Mayport, Florida, petty officer second class Michael Murkel (ph) is welcomed home from by his girlfriend after returning from a five-month deployment. And in Tyre, Lebanon: look at this, a goat appears to look warily through the window of a butcher shop.

Pictures, work a thousand words.

And that's all the time we have here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Don't forget, this Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk, among my guests, Senators Joe Biden and John Cornyn. We'll talk about the war in Iraq, the Foley scandal, lots more. That's "LATE EDITION," two hours, beginning 11 a.m. Eastern, this Sunday and every Sunday. Until then, thanks very much for joining us, I'm Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Paula?

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