Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Struggle Find Details of Alleged Nuclear Test; Rep. Kolbe's Role in Foley Scandal; Foley's Impact on Voters
Aired October 09, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, North Korea tests President Bush and the world by claiming a successful nuclear blast. It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington where Mr. Bush is urging sanctions whether the communist regime is bluffing or not. Could this mean war with an unpredictable dictator? We're examining all the military and diplomatic options. And I'll speak with the assistant secretary of state, Chris Hill.
And more dramatic new developments in the Mark Foley scandal happening tonight, startling new poll numbers on the political fallout. It's all putting Republicans in deeper, hot water.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The Bush administration is accusing North Korea of threatening global security with a provocative act. That would become the communist regime's brazen new claim that it conducted a successful nuclear test.
Our correspondents have the latest on North Korea's defiance and the possible consequences from sanctions to war. CNN's Brian Todd's standing by, but let's get the latest thinking from the Pentagon. Our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has that. Jamie what are they saying there?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, senior Pentagon officials and U.S. intelligence officials say it will be a couple of days before they figure out exactly what North Korea did with this underground test. It has the earmarks of a nuclear test, but it produced a seismic wave that was about 4.2 on the -- magnitude on the Richter scale, which would indicate that the blast was substantially smaller than they would have expected from a several kiloton bomb.
That means it was quote in the words of one U.S. intelligence official, "a sub kiloton event", which means it could have been created by several hundred tons of conventional high explosives. So what did North Korea do? Well one possibility was it was not a nuclear test but an elaborate charade.
Another possibility was it was a nuclear test but perhaps a very small intentionally because they wanted to conserve fission material or it contained radiation leak and disguised what they were doing. Another possibility was it was supposed to a much bigger nuclear test, but something went wrong.
The operating assumption right now though it was a nuclear event and Pentagon officials say that within the next couple of days additional data, particularly sampling from the air to see if there was any radioactivity should answer the question once and for all -- Wolf.
BLITZER: So they're moving military assets to that region to test, to see if in fact this is a bluff or the real thing.
MCINTYRE: Well they've already had military assets there including planes they've collected and also ground stations that can collect the air samples as well, so as the air moves around, they'll analyze the samples. They'll help them answer the question.
BLITZER: Jamie thanks very much -- Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
And while there's little talk of military action, tonight U.S. planners have had decades to look at various war scenarios, none of which look to be very good right now. CNN's Brian Todd's picking up that part of the story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the experts we spoke with today say that the chances are conflict are still very small even after North Korea's claim of a nuclear test. Given how hostilities might unfold on the peninsula, they say that's a relief.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): On a peninsula that's been heavily militarized and preparing for confrontation for more than 50 years, scenarios for war are detailed and frightening. We discussed them with a former senior U.S. Army intelligence officer assigned to Korea, a former Delta Force commander, who also has a CIA background, and a former strategic planner at the National War College who developed a war game on Korea. They all make clear war is a very remote possibility, so is the prospect of a U.S. preemptive strike.
MAJ. JEFFREY BEATTY, FORMER DELTA FORCE CMDR.: If you're going to do a preemptive strike, you have got to make sure you get everything. Because if you don't, they're going to launch what they have left and they're going to probably launch a full-scale attack against the South.
TODD: Our experts say if America struck first, the best-case scenario is casualties in the tens of thousands on both sides. If North Korea attacked first they say thousands of its special operations commandos would likely swarm into the south from the air and sea, linking up with sleeper agents who've already infiltrated through tunnels. Then...
BRIG. GEN. JAMES MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Step two would be they have to secure the demilitarized zone that separates North from South. And they would do that with light infantry, simply to hold the shoulders of the penetration, not go very deep, but to hold the door open, if you will.
TODD: Holding the door for North Korea's heavily armored million-man army to push towards Seoul and point South. At the same time, the North Koreans would launch missiles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would be conventionally tipped. We have to assume that they would be chemically tipped.
TODD: Counting U.S. forces to launch airstrikes on North Korean artillery positions, many of which can be hidden in deep underground bunkers. And inevitably experts say U.S. and North Korean ground forces would engage likely on very difficult terrain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Difficult terrain in what has turned into a very urbanized region over the past 50 years. That means possibly hundreds of thousands of casualties, military and civilian, and that's leaving out North Korea's nuclear capability, which our experts say is too crude to be used effectively for the moment. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Brian. Thank you. Brian Todd reporting.
North Korea's claim of a nuclear test is putting that country's reclusive and mysterious leader back in the world's spot light. CNN's Zain Verjee recently traveled to the Korean Peninsula. She went up to the demilitarized zone. She's joining us now with more on some of the details what we know, Zain, and what we don't know about Kim Jong Il -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, we don't know for certain where or when he was born, how many times he's been married, or even exactly how many children he has. But we do that despite his reputation as being very odd, he's even been called crazy. He's anything but.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not crazy. He might be emotional. He might be somewhat eccentric, but crazy, absolutely not.
VERJEE (voice-over): Indeed Kim Jong Il's persona may be carefully cultivated. As supreme leader of an impoverished country, he has little to bargain with on the international stage and his reputation may work to his advantage. But behind it, there is by all accounts a shrewd dictator.
PETER MAASS, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE: Really everybody who has met with Kim Jong-Il, and there have been quite a few, South Koreans, Americans, Russians, North Koreans who since defected, they all come out saying this man knows what he's doing.
VERJEE: Kim Jong Il inherited the role of absolute ruler from his father, Kim Il Sung, who died in 1994. The elder Kim dubbed himself great leader and the younger followed suit. He's known as dear leader. He's believed to have been born in the Soviet Union in 1941 or '42. Bu his birthplace is often listed instead as a mountain famous in Korean mythology.
He's thought to have been married three times, although it's not clear if all were official. And he's known to have three sons and at least one daughter.
(MUSIC)
VERJEE: Whether short in stature, he's rumored to wear platform shoes. He nonetheless had a reputation as a hard partying playboy as a young man and reportedly still has an eye for the ladies.
JERROLD POST, FORMER CIA PROFILER: He recruits at junior high school level, attractive young girls, with clear complexions and pretty faces, to be enrolled in his Joy Brigades. And the Joy Brigades function as to provide rest and relaxation for his hard worked senior officials.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Kim is also a huge film buff with a collection of as many as 20,000 films. U.S. Officials say he even once went so far as to order the kidnapping of a South Korean actress and her director husband -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Loves the old James Bond movies, we're told. Zain, thanks very much for that. We'll get back to you.
Jack Cafferty is joining us in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: A majority of Americans think the Mark Foley sex scandal ought to cost Dennis Hastert his job as Speaker of the House of Representatives. A new CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation shows 52 percent of those surveyed say Hastert ought to hang it up; 31 percent say he shouldn't.
When asked why the Republican leadership didn't take care of this matter sooner, 52 percent say it was a deliberate cover-up; 38 percent say it's because they didn't know about the serious and inappropriate nature of Foley's actions. And a whopping 75 percent of those polled say that Republican leaders handled the whole thing inappropriately.
That's clearly not good news for the Republican leadership. Meanwhile, "The Washington Post" reported over the weekend another congressional staffer says Hastert's office knew about Foley's inappropriate behavior long before anyone there did anything about it and that would go along with what Foley's former chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, said last week. Fordham is expected to testify under oath in front of the House Ethics Committee this week.
So here's the question -- would it help the Republicans' chances in the midterm elections if Dennis Hastert resigned as Speaker of the House? E-mail your thoughts on that to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you. And coming up, we'll have more on the Mark Foley scandal. Did one congressman know about Foley's conduct way back even in the year 2000?
Plus, more on the North Korean nuclear test; the U.S. chief negotiator, Chris Hill, he's in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'll ask him about U.S. plans to get tough with North Korea if necessary.
And we're taking you live to Seoul, Beijing, and Tokyo. Will Japan now join the nuclear arms race? What about South Korea? And will China agree to hit North Korea with tough sanctions, something they've been unwilling to do until now.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Tonight more reason for Republicans to be on edge about the Mark Foley online message scandal. A GOP congressman confirms he knew about his former colleague's conduct years ago. And our new poll shows the Foley scandal is taking a political toll on the battle for Congress.
Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, has the brand new CNN numbers, but first let's go to Capitol Hill. Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash has the latest developments -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, as you said, new information today from a number of sources that Capitol Hill Republicans including one House colleague knew about Mark Foley's worrisome conduct some time ago and that raises fresh questions for investigators. But also a new wrinkle in the political debate over whether or not the House leadership should have and could have done more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): As far back as the year 2000, six years before Mark Foley's inappropriate conduct with pages became public, a former page contacted Congressman Jim Kolbe's office to complain about an e-mail he got from Foley. We got a complaint that this made the former page uncomfortable, Kolbe spokeswoman Koreanna Cline confirms to CNN.
Cline says it's unclear if Kolbe directly confronted Foley about the complaint or if it was handled by staff. It was Kolbe's understanding that corrected action was taken and the matter was resolved, but his office didn't know specifics. Kolbe is retiring from Congress this year. Like Foley, he's a gay Republican, but unlike Foley, Kolbe has been open about his sexuality since 1996.
Even as Kolbe's awareness of Foley's behavior is becoming public, another Republican is emerging as a central figure in this drama, former House clerk Jeff Trandahl. CNN is told Trandahl repeatedly raised red flags about Foley's behavior towards pages years before Republicans confronted Foley about an e-mail with a former page, according to several sources familiar with the situation.
Trandahl took his concerns to Kirk Fordham, Foley's former chief of staff, many times, the sources tell CNN. As clerk, Trandahl had authority over pages and was one of the handful of Republicans who met with Foley at the end of the 2005 about an non-explicit e-mail between Foley and a former male page. Multiple sources including one familiar with Trandahl's version of events tells CNN that Trandahl had both observed and was told about worrisome Foley's behavior in the House cloakroom and elsewhere and was actively monitoring Foley interaction with pages.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, Jeff Trandahl didn't return repeated calls from CNN today. Kirk Fordham's version of events is that he and Trandahl took this -- their concerns up the chain of command inside the Republican Party to the Speaker of the House. His chief of staff, Scott Palmer, now Palmer has said that that is not true. And as for the House speaker, their response today, Wolf, was the same that we've been getting over the last several days as we've gotten some new wrinkles in this saga and that is all accusations are being referred to the House Ethics Committee. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Dana, thank you -- Dana Bash on the Hill. Our new polls numbers may confirm Republicans' worst fears about the fallout from the Foley scandal. Let's bring in our senior political analyst Bill Schneider. He's standing by in Foley's home state of Florida tonight. Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, is the Mark Foley scandal having an impact on voters? We have the evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): President Bush's job approval is pretty bad, 39 percent. Congress' job approval is worse, 28 percent. More than 60 percent of Americans disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job. The Mark Foley controversy has taken a toll.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT, (R-IL) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: When you talk about the page issue and what's happened in the Congress, I'm deeply sorry that this has happened.
SCHNEIDER: Three-quarters of the public feel Republican leaders in Congress handled the Foley matter inappropriately. Most Republicans feel that way, too. Most people believe the failure of Republican leaders to investigate the matter was a deliberate cover- up, not because they were unaware of the serious and inappropriate nature of Foley's behavior.
And most think Dennis Hastert should resign as Speaker of the House. More than a third of Republicans think Hastert should resign. Is the controversy likely to affect the midterm vote? Among all registered voters the impact looks small. The Democrats' lead over the Republicans nationwide has gone from 13 to 16 points, a statistically insignificant change.
But, there's a gap in voter motivation. Democrats are more enthusiastic than Republicans about voting this year. That could account for the shift among likely voters. Among those likely to vote, Democrats had an 11-point lead in the vote for Congress last week. The Democrats' lead among likely voters has now nearly double to 21 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The scandal seems to have hurt all members of Congress, ethics ratings for both political parties in Congress have gone down over the past year. But, congressional Republicans are rated less ethical than Democrats. Wolf?
BLITZER: Bill, is there any sense that the North Korea crisis now could change that for the Republicans, bringing the issue to national security once again and pushing Foley aside from the headlines?
SCHNEIDER: Well, anything that pushes Foley aside in the headlines is going to of course be welcome news for Republicans. And in a crisis, if Americans feel insecure or threatened, they always rally to the president. It's not clear this is that that kind of a crisis. Moreover, it's four weeks until the election and there will be a lot of debate over whether President Bush's policies and the absence of any real diplomatic negotiation with North Korea may have been responsible for this kind of crisis, so if this were a day or two before the election, it would be maybe a different story.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider reporting for us. Thank you, Bill, for that. And as we head into the crucial midterms elections, stay with CNN. Stay up-to-date with our CNN political ticker, the daily news service on CNN.com, gives you an inside view of the day's political stories, see for yourself, easy way to do it. Go to CNN.com/ticker.
And still to come, more on the Foley fiasco, gay in the GOP, scandal and backlash. The executive vice president of the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay organization, here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
And North Korea triggers nuclear alarm bells. Find out why the top U.S. negotiator now says Kim Jong Il will rue the day he decided to test this nuclear bomb. We're going to tell you what he has to say -- Chris Hill here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's get back to our top story -- North Korea and its claim of a nuclear test. We have reporters standing by across the region where the impact where will be the most serious including our CNN Beijing bureau chief Jaime FlorCruz, CNN's Atika Shubert in Tokyo. But let's go to Seoul, South Korea. Dan Rivers is standing by there.
Dan, you were just up along the demilitarized zone, one of the most dangerous spots on earth. What was it like today when you went there on this day of the North Korean nuclear test? DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's incredibly tense up there, Wolf. This is the most heavily fortified border anywhere in the world. There are some two million soldiers it's thought, camped on either side of the razor wire that divides the Korean Peninsula into the demilitarized zone that's been there since 1953. It's strewn with land mines.
There are also 28,000 American troops in South Korea -- here to defend South Korea, should there be another war. The two countries technically are still at war. They signed an amnesty at the end of the Korean War, but they never signed a peace treaty. And the news of this nuclear test has sent a collective shiver down the spines of everyone here in Seoul -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Dan, stand by. Atika Shubert in Tokyo, there's a new prime minister in Japan, Atika, as you well know. How much pressure will he now come under to go ahead and develop Japan's own nuclear bomb given the potential threat from North Korea?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Prime Minister (INAUDIBLE) has only been in office for about a month now. And this is his toughest challenge. It really brings a new (INAUDIBLE) to two questions. Does he want to change Japan's pacifist constitution that would lay the groundwork for a possible preemptive strike in the event of an imminent attack? And secondly, does he want to see Japan developing its own nuclear weapons program. Abe has said he wants to change the constitution, but he has steered clear of any nuclear weapons program, saying that Japan doesn't own any nuclear weapons and doesn't intend to in the future.
BLITZER: Stand by Atika. Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing -- so far U.S. officials say that the Chinese government, which has enormous leverage over North Korea, hasn't stepped up to the plate. They haven't gotten tough. Will China now support tough U.N. sanctions against North Korea?
JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Well China has said that a nuclear test was brazen and it resolutely opposes it, so China is clearly very critical and very concerned about it. If the U.N. Security Council decide or vote a resolution strongly condemning North Korea or even imposing limited sanctions on it, China will probably go ahead with it.
But at the end on of the day, the Chinese still hope that diplomacy and dialogue will resolve this crisis, not a military confrontation. China does not want to see confrontation in their region and refugees flowing into China. So China wants changes but only through a soft landing -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing, Atika Shubert in Tokyo, Dan Rivers in Seoul, thanks to all three of you. We'll be checking back with you as this crisis continues.
Just ahead, will North Korea's leader rue the day his country tested a nuclear weapon? Find out why the assistant secretary of state is saying precisely that. We're going to hear from Chris Hill. That's coming up.
And gay and Republican -- how might the Mark Foley scandal highlight problems between the two. I'll ask the executive vice president of the Log Cabin Republicans -- that's a gay group within the GOP.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now -- North Korea says it's tested a nuclear bomb, now the United Nations is weighing punishment. The U.N. is discussing the possibility of economic sanctions against North Korea.
Also more U.S. troops killed and hurt in Iraq -- the U.S. military now says one soldier died today in Baghdad. Three Marines died after a gun battle yesterday. October is shaping up as a very dangerous month for American troops in Iraq, 300 wounded in the first week alone.
And Google searches and finds YouTube. Goggle is buying the popular online video site. The deal involves more than $1.6 billion in stock. Internet surfers see more than 100 million videos on YouTube every day.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the SITUATION ROOM.
President Bush is responding to North Korea's nuclear claim with some sharp words and a call for immediate action by the United Nations.
Let's go to our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, White House officials say is could take hours or even days before U.S. intelligence confirms whether or not this was a nuclear test. But either way, this test has changed the political stakes here in the equation. The stakes, much, much for North Korea's Kim Jong-Il as well as President Bush
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: President Bush declared North Korea's test a threat to international peace and security.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States condemns this provocative act. Once again, North Korea has defied the will of the international community, and the international community will respond.
MALVEAUX: But it was more than three years ago, when Mr. Bush warned:
BUSH: We will not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: The United States' credibility's on the line.
MALVEAUX: So early morning, Mr. Bush made a round of urgent calls to the leaders of China, South Korea, Russia, and Japan to ensure those once engaged in talks to convince North Korea to dismantle its nuclear program would respond with one voice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a paranoid, isolated dangerous state, now on the verge of possessing nuclear weapons.
ALBRIGHT: There really could be a nuclear war in northeast Asia. And so you have to now focus on this problem much more, and this test scares people.
MALVEAUX: That fear, nuclear weapons experts say, could work in the Bush administration's favor. The president has been pushing the U.N. Security Council to impose tougher sanctions against North Korea for pursuing its nuclear ambitions. Today the Council condemned North Korea's actions. But its neighbors are nervous about how Pyongyang might react to a resolution with real teeth.
ALBRIGHT: China's made clear that it sees the tough economic sanctions as just provoking North Korea toward a military confrontation.
MALVEAUX: Japan and South Korea fear its neighbor regime could collapse. North Korea has consistently called for the U.S. to conduct one on one talks. But U.S. officials reiterated the Bush administration, the Bush administration will not be sucked into a showdown with North Korea, that it will only engage in regional negotiations. Many political and nuclear analysts believe that approach is a mistake.
ALBRIGHT: The United States holds the key and it has to talk directly to North Korea. It has to be able to make a deal, because, in the end, North Korea fears the United States the most, and most worries about a U.S. attack or an U.S. effort to destroy the regime.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now the Bush administration's problem, nuclear analyst say, is that it keeps moving the red line. Back in July, it was these missile tests, we're going to get tough. Now it's this apparent nuclear test, we're going to get tough.
And Wolf, if you listen to President Bush's statement today, again he warns that North Korea cannot go ahead and share nuclear technology or weapons with rogue states or terrorist groups. Again leading nuclear analysts to believe that perhaps the administration, again, is moving that red line -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Suzanne, thank you.
North Korea clearly presenting a tough new challenge for the Bush administration with its nuclear defiance and brinkmanship.
Joining us is the top U.S. negotiator dealing with this whole North Korea issue, the assistant secretary of state, Chris Hill.
Mr. Secretary, thanks very much for coming in. It's not been almost 24 hours, have you confirmed that in fact that the North Koreans did test a nuclear bomb?
CHRIS HILL, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, we have a lot of people looking at a lot of very fancy equipment, and I'm sure they'll be able to tell in the next day or two. What we do know is there was a seismic event, something happened in North Korea.
Plus, we have a government, that has said proudly, that is has exploded a nuclear device. So I think it's going to take a couple of days to figure out precisely what happened.
BLITZER: But you're working under the assumption that this is a nuclear test?
HILL: Well, we have to work under the assumption North Korea did what it said it was doing, that is, making a nuclear test. But we have to see precisely, from our own sensors, what exactly happened there.
BLITZER: Here's what you said last week. You said, we are not going to live with nuclear North Korea, we are not going to accept it. It looks like there's a nuclear North Korea now. And the question is, how do you live up to that threat, that you made last week, when you said, we're not going to accept it?
HILL: Well, the North Koreans, I think, had the idea, they would explode a nuclear device, and then, after everything settled down, we would accept North Korea as a nuclear weapons state and begin to negotiate with them accordingly on some sort of arms reduction agreement.
Well, I can tell you that's not going to happen. We're just not going to accept that North Korea, with its starving population, is going to be able to join the nuclear club. And so we're going work very hard to make sure North Korea understands the cost of this. We're going to work very hard with other partners, with North Korea's neighbors, and with our allies to make sure that we make this a very, very costly decision, such that North Korea will want to come back to the bargaining table and get rid of these weapons and programs.
BLITZER: Do you have a commitment from China, which has leverage on North Korea, that it will do what it's refused to in the past and use that leverage?
HILL: Well, you know, I can't speak for the Chinese. But I can assure we are very much in touch with the Chinese. Secretary Rice was up half the night last night. And one of her prime people that she was talking with were the Chinese. So we're going to really intensify our consultations with China.
China is clearly, clearly upset. And if you looked at China's condemnatory statement today, I've never seen anything like it.
BLITZER: Will they support, will China support United Nations- imposed sanctions?
HILL: Well, the Chinese have indicated they're going to work with us in New York, and we'll see what we get. But I think we can get something that will be far more than just some sort of angry letter. I can assure you of that.
BLITZER: But it doesn't look like Kim Jong-Il is very worried. He's sort of snubbing his nose. He's saying, you know what, I don't care what you say, I'm going to go ahead and do what I want to do. He feels this is protecting his regime.
HILL: Well, he can feel whatever he wants. And I'm sure he has some advisers who help him feel that he's in charge there. But I'm telling you, he's going to really rue the day that he made this decision.
BLITZER: And could you elaborate? Rue the day meaning economic and political sanctions, or is there a military option that the U.S. and its allies are weighing right now? Because you know the Japanese are nervous, the South Koreans are nervous, and you can't blame them if they say they want to go ahead and build their own nuclear bombs now.
HILL: Well, I think there have always been two main problems with North Korea doing this. First of all, destabilizing the region, encouraging proliferation in the region. Secondly, selling or transferring fissile material to non-state actors. So we are concerned on both scores. And we really have to do something about this.
But you know, we can't do this unilaterally. This is not a U.S. problem. We have to deal with our partners, allies, and that's what we're doing. And I think a key country in all of this will be China.
BLITZER: When are you going to start talking directly to North Korea without the other embers of the so-called six party talks? When will the United States begin a direct, bilateral discussion with North Korea, under what circumstances?
HILL: Well, as you know in the six party process, we had many, many, many bilateral discussions. These were discussions where, you know, it was just me in the room and the head of the North Korean delegation in the room. I mean, we had very small meetings, one on one across the table. We did a lot of this type of bilateral discussion.
This is isn't a question of the format of the discussion, this is a question of the regime that basically, hasn't made the fundamental decision to get rid of these weapons programs that it's been working on developing for some thirty years. You know, this didn't just happen last year or during the Clinton administration. This happened way back in 1970s, when they first put that ramshackle nuclear reactor together. BLITZER: Chris Hill is the assistant secretary of state, the U.S. pointman for North Korea. You're in the hot seat, Mr. Secretary, good luck.
HILL: Thank you very much.
BLITZER: If North Korea has successfully tested a nuclear device, it joins a short list of nations confirmed to nuclear weaponry. That list includes the United States, Russia, China, France, the U.K., India, and Pakistan.
Unlike these countries, Israel is an undeclared nuclear power. That means the government in Jerusalem has never publicly confirmed it has nuclear weapons, though that is widely assumed.
Did North Korea successfully conduct an underground nuclear test? The Internet is providing some clues.
Let's go to go to Jacki Schechner. She's standing by with details -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, this is what it looks like when you conduct a nuclear test deep under ground. This video was courtesy of the Nevada site office of the National Nuclear Security Administration, which -- let me get that page back for you -- which basically is part of the Department of Energy. Now, that administration knows a lot about underground nuclear testing. They're been recording all of the U.S. tests through September of 1992, 928 of those taking place in Nevada, 828 of those underground. The website will explain to you how those tests take place. There's a method called the shaft method, which basically, they dig a hole, which can either a few hundred feet underground, or as deep as deep five thousand feet underground -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thank you.
And still ahead tonight, how might the Mark Foley scandal highlight problem for people who are both gay and Republican? I'll ask the executive vice president of the gay group the Log Cabin Republicans. And nuclear mania, screaming headlines and a giddy announcement on North Korea television. Only our Jeanne Moos has that story. You're going to want to see this, stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Mark Foley is highlighting a unique problem in a sometimes stormy relationship, that between gays and the Republican Party. Just a short while I spoke to Patrick Sammon about that. He's the executive vice president of the leading gay Republican group, the Log Cabin Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Patrick, thanks very much for coming in.
PATRICK SAMMON, EXEC. V.P. LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS: Good to be with you.
BLITZER: I have to tell you a lot of our viewers have emailed me and they're wondering how is it possible for there to be gay Republicans given some of the positions of the Republican Party when it comes to opposition to same-sex marriage and other issues of such concern to gays. You're a gay Republican why?
SAMMON: Well there are hundreds of thousands of gay and lesbian Americans just like me. And we don't believe government is the solution to every problem. We believe in a strong national defense, limited government, low taxes. And we believe in the core values of the Republican Party, but we also think it's important to work from with inside the party to make it more inclusive on gay and lesbian issues.
BLITZER: And so you don't think that the current position of the Republican Party is stepping on your human rights as a gay American?
SAMMON: Well certainly we haven't been afraid to speak up and say that it's wrong to use gay and lesbian people to score political points, and we'll continue working from with inside the party to educate people about why it's in the --
BLITZER: So you're sticking with the Republican Party.
SAMMON: Oh, absolutely.
BLITZER: Are you satisfied with the way the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives has dealt with Mark Foley and the fallout?
SAMMON: Clearly there weren't enough questions asked early on. There were clearly some mistakes made and the investigation that's going on will determine who's responsible for not asking enough questions early on. But it's clear to point out that Foley's behavior was shameful and despicable, and if he broke the law he should be prosecuted.
BLITZER: The fact that he was suspected of being a gay Republican, a gay American if you will, but he had never come out of the closet until this whole thing erupted and he resigned from Congress. What was the impact of that on the way this scandal unfolded?
SAMMON: Well, this whole situation is sexual orientation is really irrelevant to this whole situation. His behavior was shameful and despicable, and he should be prosecuted if he broke the law, but sexual orientation had certainly nothing to do with this situation.
BLITZER: Newt Gingrich said this the other day, the former speaker. He said well, you could have had second thoughts about it, but I think had they overly aggressively reacted to the initial round, they would also have been accused of gay bashing because as you know there was widespread assumption among Republicans that Mark Foley was gay? SAMMON: That's just an absolutely absurd allegation. The fact is if they had started an investigation when questions were first asked, there's no gay rights organization that would have defended him. The fact of the matter is questions should have been asked sooner, and people who are trying to spin this now are just completely wrong.
BLITZER: Here's from the "New York Times" on Saturday a quote, I'll read it to you. One gay republican campaign strategist said he feared that conservatives would play to the base and redouble their efforts to vilify homosexuals. It's one of the places the party goes when it's in trouble he said. A lot of us are holding our breath to see how this plays out. As a gay Republican are you holding your breath fearful that this scenario could unfold?
SAMMON: Well it's unfortunate that the antigay groups are trying to score political points with this whole situation. They should be ashamed that they're trying to spread false stereotypes, and they should be ashamed that they're trying to use gay and lesbian people to score political points. And the fact of the matter is that they are going to end up on the wrong side of history because most Americans believe that gay and lesbian people should be treated fairly.
BLITZER: What does it mean if anything that several of the key players involved in investigating the rumors about Mark Foley and his inappropriate exchanges or contacts with congressional male pages, the fact that several of them are gay themselves, gay Republicans including Jim Kolbe, the Republican congressman, and Jeff Trandahl, Kirk Fordham, these top congressional aides?
SAMMON: Mistakes were made, but it was made by both gay people and straight people. Sexual orientation simply had nothing to do with this situation.
BLITZER: And the fact that the speaker or the majority leader or Tom Reynolds who runs the congressional campaign for the Republicans, that they decided that they weren't going to really investigate as thoroughly as they clearly should have, what does that say?
SAMMON: Well, it says that they should have asked more questions earlier on, but to try and bring sexual orientation into this situation, it just is irrelevant.
BLITZER: Should Hastert resign?
SAMMON: Foley's behavior was despicable.
BLITZER: Should Hastert resign?
SAMMON: I think we have to learn more about what exactly happened, what people knew, and when they knew it before we can answer that.
BLITZER: Patrick Sammon is the executive vice-president of the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay group. Thanks for coming in.
SAMMON: Thanks a lot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And up ahead, Republicans getting pounded in the polls because of the Mark Foley scandal. Would it help their chances in November if the speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, resigned. Jack Cafferty is getting some of your very, very provocative e-mails. And one newspaper headline calls Kim Jong-il a "nut with a nuke." Jeanne Moos will show us how the North Korea mania is playing on the front pages and television stations across the country.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Jack's in New York with the "Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Wolf, the Mark Foley sex scandal is hurting the Republicans in the polls. A lot of people feel like perhaps there was an intentional cover-up on the part of the Republican leadership, who may have known have what Mark Foley was up to.
So the question we asked was, "Would if help the Republicans' chances in the midterm elections if Dennis Hastert resigned as Speaker of the House?"
Megan writes in Washington, "As a former House page," summer of 1997, "and a loyal Republican, I think Hastert should not resign right now but instead should wait for the outcome of the midterm elections. Until we have more information and are able to hold accountable those directly responsible for any sort of wrongdoing, we can't afford a leadership crisis in the House just a month before the election."
Dave in Ontario: "Jack, unless Dennis Hastert can prove the Republicans would do more to keep the Korean-made nukes off in-bound cargo ships than he did to keep a pervert off a page, it doesn't matter whether he resigns or not."
Ron in Pennsylvania: "Hastert doesn't have to resign. The Bush Republicans have never been held accountable for anything. Maybe it's just me, but Tony Snow-job sounds more and more like Baghdad Bob every day."
Buddy in Douglas, Wyoming: "No, but it would help the American people if all of Congress would resign and the country could get a fresh start."
David writes in Terrell, Texas, "By election day, the Foley scandal will be old news. What people will be thinking of a the scary issues: Will we be in this expensive, deadly war forever? Will my job go overseas next? Will U.S. citizens become a minority? Will the Mexican citizen vote outnumber U.S. citizen votes? Will my e-vote even get counted?"
And Frank in Oregon writes, "Maybe. But the Republicans will probably support Mr. Hastert and Mr. Foley by saying that after 9-11, we are in a completely different kind of world. And if that does not work, they will say it was Bill Clinton's fault."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile, where you can read some more of these online -- Jack.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks very much. See you tomorrow.
Let's find out what's coming up right at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW".
Soledad O'Brien is filling in for Paula tonight.
Hi Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Wolf. Thanks.
At the top of the hour, we're going to in-depth on North Korea's claim that it exploded a nuclear device. We'll take a look at how this predicament came about, and also the military and diplomatic possibilities that lie ahead.
We'll also a look what Evangelical Christians are saying about the sex scandal involving ex-Congressman Mark Foley. Will it effect the way they're going to vote?
We'll see you right at the top of the hour with that -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll be watching, Soledad. Thank you.
And still ahead tonight, right here in the SITUATION ROOM, the uproar over North Korea and its underground nuclear test. When we come back, CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a unique look at all of the commotion.
Stay with us. You're in the SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from our friends at the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.
Seoul, South Korea. A protester burns a photo of the North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il.
Northern Thailand. Flash floods wash through the streets after heavy rains.
London. A man travels down a 180 foot slide, part of an interactive art exhibit featuring five tube slides.
And in Aberdeen, South Dakota, two youngsters wash pumpkins outside their home.
Some of today's "Hot Shots", pictures often worth a thousand words. Much is being made of North Korea, its nuclear weapons test, and the threat it might pose to the rest of the world. Before you start planning your fallout shelter and collecting foods with long shelf life, take a moment, take a breath and take a look at the North Korea mania from the Jeanne Moos perspective.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Though no one was practicing duck and cover drills, news from North Korea is yet another stressful thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's bad. It's bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It worries me a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It absolutely makes me nervous.
MOOS: On North Korean T.V., the nuclear bombshell was dropped...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Korean)
MOOS: ... by an anchorwoman so enthusiastic she rivaled Katie Couric's pre- "CBS Evening News" sell.
(on camera): The "New York Times" had a straightforward, across the page banner headline: "North Korea Says it Tested a Nuclear Device Underground," and the "New York Post," "Nut with a Nuke".
(voice-over): After all, that's how Kim Jong-Il is often portrayed in America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am so crazy.
MOOS: "Mad T.V." presented Kim as a talk show host interviewing Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So Donald Trump, you have a head like a mushroom cloud.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
MOOS: Whoever imagined Donald Trump's hair would be prophetic?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're fired.
MOOS: North Korea's U.N. ambassador was the object immediate chase as he went by foot to the U.N. The press followed and followed, even when the ambassador said he'd had enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's enough. That's enough.
MOOS: But at least he didn't do what Angelina Jolie's bodyguard did to a photographer staking out Angelina and Brad in India.
At least the North Korean ambassador, despite his imperfect English, was able to pronounce a certain word...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nuclear test.
MOOS: ... better than a certain president.
BUSH: A nucular (ph) test.
MOOS: Nuclear is correct, though "Merriam-Webster's" notes that, while disapproved of, nucular is widely used by "educated speakers, including one U.S. president".
And speaking of nukes:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a real argument about why we can have it and they can't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have any. Do you have any?
MOOS (on camera): No. Not on me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK, because I always have to go next door to my neighbors when I need one.
MOOS (voice-over): No depiction of Kim Jong-Il...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.
MOOS: ... has captured the dear leader quite the way the guys who created "South Park" did in their movie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): I'm so lonely, so lonely, so lonely inside, so alone.
TREY PARKER, DIRECTOR, "TEAM AMERICA": We actually think if the real Kin Jong ever sees that, he'll probably start crying.
MOOS: Don't cry for me, North Korea.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: You have to laugh sometimes, and only Jeanne Moos can do that. She is terrific.
Thanks very much for joining us. We're in the SITUATION ROOM weekdays 4:00 to 6:00, back at 7:00.
Let's go to "PAULA ZAHN" now. Soledad filling in -- Soledad.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
