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The Situation Room
North Korea May Be Preparing Another Nuclear Test
Aired October 17, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, is Pyongyang planning a second nuclear test? It's 8:00 a.m. in North Korea where U.S. intelligence spots suspicious activity right now. As Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice rushes to rally nervous neighbors, is Asia already headed for a new nuclear arms race?
It's 7:00 p.m. in Florida where there's a new development in the scandal surrounding former Congressman Mark Foley. His lawyer promises a major revelation about Foley's claims of abuse by a clergyman.
And a key Republican governor pushes the button on hot-button issues including same sex marriage and adoption. I'll speak with the Massachusetts governor and presidential prospect Mitt Romney.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
North Korea threw a party today to celebrate the historic roots of its ruling faction. The party comes less than two weeks after North Korea's nuclear test and now U.S. intelligence has spotted activity at another North Korean site. Could that mean a second nuclear test is now in the works? Secretary of state Condoleezza Rice is now on her way to the region, calling today for a nuclear-free Korea, but is the stage already set for an all-out Asian arms race?
CNN's Brian Todd is standing by, but let's begin with our coverage this hour with our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, at this hour there is concern and caution from the U.S. intelligence community about what North Korea might be up to.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
STARR (voice-over): In Pyongyang a lavish pro-government celebration, while the world watches and waits to see if North Korea will conduct a second underground nuclear test. DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There's speculation that they may want to do something additional. There is also speculation they may not. So only time will tell.
STARR: U.S. spy satellites have picked up signs of activity again at several North Korean sites according to intelligence and military officials. The Bush administration isn't sure what it all means. At two of the sites, small structures have been put up perhaps to keep preparations hidden. Most worrisome, U.S. officials say, the new activity resembles what happened just before the first test.
The U.S. is closely monitoring statements by senior North Korean officials and military leaders that additional nuclear tests are in the works. On North Korean television, the U.N. sanctions are now being called a declaration of war. Intelligence analysts know anxiety is rising in China in recent days. There are worries additional tests would destabilize the region. The U.S. believes a defiant Kim Jong Il might soon pursue a second test because the first test seems to have partially failed.
JAMES LILLEY, FORMER U.S. AMB. TO S. KOREA: He's thumbing his nose at the world. He's going to do this and get his people mobilized, he's going to appeal to all of his third world friends in Iran, Venezuela, Castro and Cuba, Bashir in Sudan. These are his people. He's saying I can stand up. This is my nuke. It's a show.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Wolf, the U.S. believes that the first North Korean test was done on the basis of a plutonium device, a plutonium weapons design. That would be for a lot of technical reasons one indication that the entire nuclear program is not quite as far along as some people anticipated, still no one willing to predict what Pyongyang might do next -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll be watching very closely. Barbara, thank you.
And now in the nuclear shadow of both North Korea and neighboring China, will South Korea and Japan use their high tech industrial might to develop quickly nuclear weapons of their own? It's a burning question we're watching.
CNN's Brian Todd joining us now live with that story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, North Korea's neighbors may indeed be on the verge of building their own nuclear arsenals and most alarming is the speed at which those weapons could be built -- one projection -- a few months.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): if Kim Jong Il orders a second nuclear test, experts warn it could trigger a dangerous chain reaction -- an Asian arms race.
JON WOLFSTHAL, CTR. FOR STRATEGIC & INTL STUDIES: Japan is often at the top of most people's watch list because they do have an advanced nuclear power program, peaceful program for energy production and it's believed they could build a nuclear weapon in a matter of months.
TODD: But analysts believe Japan may hold back for political reasons. The new prime minister has reinforced the government's stance against nuclear weapons and the nuclear taboo in Japan since Hiroshima is still a strong part of the national fabric. Next on the list weapons experts say South Korea. Possibly one to two years away from being able to make a workable nuclear bomb -- then Taiwan, same timetable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taiwan in fact had a secret effort to build a nuclear weapons program back in the early 1980's and when the U.S. government found out about it, they forced Taiwanese government to shut it down.
TODD: Taiwan would hold back analysts say for fear China would attack if it goes nuclear. Most experts believe the Asian powers won't have a knee-jerk reaction to a second North Korean test but they say other nations in another dangerous region are watching.
MICHAEL RUBIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INST.: North Korea gets a nuclear bomb so now Iran figures that it also has a right to. Iran develops a nuclear bomb or nuclear power and suddenly Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and even Yemen are talking about developing nuclear programs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: One of them already is. Within the past few weeks, Egypt announced it may pursue nuclear energy for civilian purposes -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us. Thanks Brian very much -- much more on North Korea coming up. Our Zain Verjee is the only TV reporter traveling to Asia right now with the secretary of state. Coming up this hour, I'll debrief Zain. She's going to be joining us from Elmendorf Air Force Base Alaska where the secretary's plain is refueling.
Meanwhile, in Iraq, car bombs and guns and mortars added to the carnage in several Iraqi cities today. Dozens of fresh casualties reported and police say they found 30 more bullet riddled bodies in streets of Baghdad alone. As the violence rages, should the United States be talking with the insurgents?
Michael Ware is joining us once again from Baghdad. Michael thanks very much. You had a fascinating report on these insurgents now suggesting that they would like to enter into direct talks with the Bush administration. Listen to the White House press secretary, Tony Snow, he responded to that earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are two things insurgent leaders don't want. They don't want you to know who they are and they don't want you to know where they live. Under such circumstances it's very difficult to have regular meetings with them. So what you really have here is a situation in which the Iraqis have their own way of communicating sometimes through third-parties. But let's reiterate. Reconciliation is a key part of what the prime minister is trying to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He's referring to the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al Maliki. What do you make of that White House reaction to your exclusive reports?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I mean it's a stated fact, as we've heard from the U.S. ambassador himself, Zalmay Khalilzad, that the United States has had dialogues, contact, communication, back channel flows with the Sunni insurgency. What they've been targeting from the beginning certainly since the end of the Bremer administration and the arrival of Ambassador John Negroponte is the U.S. representative here in Baghdad is to reach out primarily to all the Baath apparatus the Bremer administration so rapidly dismantled after the war. That conversation has continued. However, the Baathist and the insurgents out there are disillusioned with what they see is less than genuine U.S. response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: What about Maliki, the prime minister? Is he feeling any heat from the U.S. government, the Bush administration, members of Congress to start dealing with these death squads, these militias, or he is resisting that pressure?
WARE: Well, Wolf, obviously, all of this is conducted behind closed door and on secure phone communications. However, I think it's very clear from little there has that's fallen from their table publicly, the crumbs that we can piece together that, yes, there clearly is pressure. Look at Secretary Rice's language when she visited most recently in Baghdad.
It was very much tougher talk than we've seen on her previous visits back in April. The U.S. needs to see change and they need to see it now. They need to see the Baghdad security plan working and, quite frankly, it's stalled. They need to see Nouri al Maliki, the last possible hope they might have for the democratic model here, the man they've invested so much and succeed yet what is he doing?
He's refused to dismantle the militias and according to an interview with one U.S. (INAUDIBLE), he's preventing U.S. forces from going into the heart of the capital where the largest militia comes from -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And that would be Sadr City -- Michael Ware reporting for us -- thanks very much.
Let's go to Jack Cafferty in New York. He's got the Cafferty -- what is it called again -- the Cafferty -- something.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: You know, they got an express train runs right down to Washington. I can come down there.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: First of all, what do you think of Michael Ware? Isn't he a courageous...
CAFFERTY: He's terrific. Are you kidding? The guy is brilliant. He should have your job.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Move on, Jack.
CAFFERTY: I'm just kidding. On to "The File" -- very serious stuff here. It's been confirmed now that members of terrorist organizations are entering the United States from Mexico. That's great, isn't it? Part of a new congressional report released by Texas Congressman Mike McCaul, the report says that drug cartels are the root problem that need to be addressed in order to secure the border. McCaul is also concerned that drug traffickers could use their delivery roots to smuggle terrorists or weapons of mass destructions into the United States.
And give them enough time and that's probably what will happen. The report indicates Hezbollah members have already come here from Mexico, supporters of other Islamic radical groups like Hamas are currently active in Latin America. Not only are terrorists slipping into this country from Mexico but if they ever decide to smuggle in WMDs, well the drug cartels probably give them a hand for the right price and yet our government here in this country continues to do nothing.
Here is the question. How big a national security threat is it if terrorists are entering our country now through our open borders with Mexico? E-mail your thoughts at CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. Wolf, I was just kidding. You do a terrific job...
BLITZER: I know. You do an excellent job and later this hour, you're going to give our viewers a preview of your special report that's going to airing during this hour tomorrow. Don't do it now. You'll do it later this hour.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Jack's got a special report coming up tomorrow 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
Coming up right now though, a new twist in the Mark Foley scandal -- will the Catholic Church pay a price for his claim of past abuse by a clergyman down in Florida?
Plus, has a congressman in a very tough reelection battle become a loose cannon? We're going to catch up with Republican Chris Shays of Connecticut and see if he is standing by some of his more controversial words of recent days. And later, inside the secretary of state's trip to Asia and her response to the North Korean nuclear threat. We'll get a special report from our Zain Verjee. She's the only TV correspondent traveling with Condoleezza Rice on this trip to Asia.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. A new development tonight in the Mark Foley congressional page scandal -- it stems from the former congressman's claim that he suffered past abuse by a clergyman.
CNN's Candiotti has some late-breaking news from Florida. She's joining us now live -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Yes, the Mark Foley and his personal attorney know the name of the priest they allege molested Mr. Foley as a teenager more than 30 years ago, but the civil attorney who has now had several conversations with the former congressman, the disgraced congressman, says he does not yet know the name but expects to find out during one of -- another one of his phone calls with Mr. Foley, who is still in rehab somewhere. Now, Foley's civil attorney says the congressman will accept an offer of counseling from the archdiocese of Miami.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALD RICHMAN, FOLEY ATTORNEY: Mark Foley is intending to work with the archdiocese of Miami in greater West Palm Beach for the purpose of revealing the name of the particular priest who was involved so that the archdiocese can then deal appropriately with the issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Just a short time ago, we spoke with a spokesman for the archdiocese of Miami, which includes the diocese of Palm Beach. She says quote, "we are ready to offer the counseling once the person is identified." We don't know who the abuser is, if it's a credible allegation. We will provide pastoral and psychological counseling, but there is no telling precisely when the lawyers intend to turn that name over to the archdiocese of Miami -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Susan, thank you -- a sensitive subject down in Florida.
Meanwhile, there is a delicate balancing act under way right now. Politicians walking a tight rope between saying what they really think versus saying something that crosses the line. As the midterm election nears, it's only three weeks away, it seems every candidate is closely watching the opponent's words to see what can be used against them.
CNN's Mary Snow is standing by. She's watching one very, very close Connecticut race and she's joining us now live from the scene -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, we're in Wilton tonight because the candidates in the fourth congressional district are debating here tonight, but it's really been some controversial remarks made in the past few weeks that are grabbing the headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
SNOW (voice-over): He is a 19-year Republican incumbent congressman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I'm Diane...
SNOW: She is the Democratic challenger in what is being called a close race. Iraq has been the big issue between Congressman Chris Shays and Democrat Diane Farrell so far but in the final weeks of the campaign it's some of the language being used by the candidates that is drawing attention.
STUART ROTHENBERG, THE ROTHENBERG REPORT: He has made statements that some people have portrayed as unusually combative confrontational and a little off-beat.
SNOW: Congressman Shays says he regrets one statement he recently made referring to Abu Ghraib as a sex ring and not torture.
REP. CHRIS SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: I made the mistake of describing two hours of what I watched. I watched two hours of just one picture after another of just pure unadulterated porn and it's abuse, but what took place was torture. I should have said that from the start.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just outrage...
SNOW: Shays' opponent has been linking him to the Bush administration.
DIANE FARRELL (D), CONN. CONG. CANDIDATE: Sounds a lot like what the Bush administration has done to try to minimize, sounds a lot like Mr. Rumsfeld.
SNOW: And there is this uproar over a statement Shays made defending House Speaker Dennis Hastert. Democratic Farrell suggested Shays returned campaign money from Hastert because of the Foley matter. That news came out on a day when Farrell campaigned alongside Senator Ted Kennedy. Listen to Shays repeat is controversial comment about Kennedy to CNN today.
SHAYS: And with all due respect I know that my leader didn't drive down a road, go off a bridge, and leave a young lady to die and then the next day, figure out how he was going to deal with it with a press conference. And I think that was a fair comment.
FARRELL: After saying it was a Democratic conspiracy was to strike back an incident that took place over 30 years ago. No responsibility, no accountability.
SNOW: In a statement, a spokeswoman for Senator Kennedy said quote, "this just makes clear the real need for change in November. Beyond that, I'm not going to justify such a desperate attack with a response."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Congressman Christopher Shays says he stands by his comments about Senator Kennedy and he calls it a double standard that he's being criticized for them -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We're going to watching this race really closely -- Mary, thanks very much. And as we head into the crucial midterm election, stay up-to-date with the CNN political ticker. The daily news service on CNN.com gives all of us an inside view of today's political stories. You can check it out yourself. Go to CNN.com/Ticker.
Still to come tonight right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Governor Mitt Romney making new appeals to Christian conservatives, but will the deck be stacked against him if he runs for president? My interview with Romney, that's coming up tonight.
Plus, 300 million and counting -- America's new milestone, do we know who is responsible for pushing our population to a new high?
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Carol Costello is standing by with a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Wolf. President Bush has signed into law a bill he says will save American lives, that this new rules for the treatment of terror suspects and legalizes the trial by military commission that the Supreme Court struck down in June. The president calls it his most important legislative priority of this year.
Also, he died after being found guilty of crimes. Now a court official says a judge in Houston has vacated Enron founder Ken Lay's fraud and conspiracy conviction. He threw them out citing Lay's inability to appeal. The ruling ends the criminal case against Lay and affects his estate but a lawyer for Lay's wife says the decision does not affect the many civil claims on the Lay estate that are still pending.
And in California prayers and praise -- many attended a memorial for New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle. He was killed along with his flight instructor last week when Lidle's plane crashed into a New York building. Loved ones recalled Lidle as a loving husband and father and also a man with a passion for flying planes.
Back to you, Wolf. BLITZER: What a sad story -- our deepest condolences to the family. Carol, thank you very much. Carol will be back with us.
Just ahead though, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on her way to Asia right now for urgent consultations on North Korea's new nuclear status. Our Zain Verjee is the only TV reporter traveling with her. We will get an update from Zain momentarily.
And the Massachusetts' governor, Mitt Romney won't say for sure if he's a White House wannabe, but he has a lot to say about same sex marriage and adoption, among other subjects. My interview with Governor Romney, that's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, new threats from North Korea even as the Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice heads to the region. Kim Jon Il's regime now calls the U.N. sanctions it got slapped with -- and I'm quoting now -- "a declaration of war." And there are new signs tonight that North Korea may be getting ready for a second nuclear test.
Surprising claim of responsibility for the Taliban's comeback in Afghanistan -- the NATO commander on the ground says coalition forces opened the door to the new insurgency by adopting a peace time approach before they should have.
And actor Wesley Snipes is wanted tonight on tax fraud charges, but Florida authorities don't know where he is. Prosecutors accuse Snipes of trying to cheat the federal government out of millions of dollars.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Secretary of State Rice is on her way to Japan right now. It's the first stop in her Asian tour aimed at keeping the North Korean nuclear threat in check.
And joining us now from Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska where the secretary of state's plane is refueling on her way to Asia, our correspondent Zain Verjee. Zain, you've had a chance with other reporters to speak with the secretary on the flight to Alaska. First of all, what did she say about the possibility that the North Koreans may be getting ready for a second nuclear test?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, Secretary Rice said that she was concerned about the possibility of a further test by North Korea. She said that if they did that, it would isolate itself further. It was not in North Korea's interest. She also added that North Korea has been told by all quarters in the region don't do it.
BLITZER: What did she also say Zain, about her major goals in going to Japan to China, to South Korea right now to deal with this crisis? VERJEE: Well Wolf, one of the goals that she outlined was essentially to get the allies to implement the resolution, 1718, that basically slapped sanctions on North Korea after it tested a nuclear device. The resolution calls for the interdiction of suspicious cargo. Secretary Rice says that she plans basically to work out the nuts and the bolts of the allies, how is this going to happen? How should cargo be inspected?
One senior State Department official said that shipments need to be inspected by air, sea, and land. And it doesn't mean though, he added, stopping every North Korean ship going in and out of the country.
But it does appear they're pushing for major inspections. The big challenge will be whether China and South Korea get on board. Wolf?
BLITZER: Clearly critical mission for the Secretary of State. Zain is going to be covering this trip. She'll be joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Zain, thanks very much.
And in these final weeks before the midterm election, three weeks away, Republican Mitt Romney is wearing many hats. He's finishing out his term as the governor of Massachusetts. He's the chairman of the Republican Governors Association and he's a leading presidential prospect in 2008.
Romney tells me he is keeping the option of running the White House op but he won't say just yet whether he is in or out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Here is a sensitive issue that you are going to have to deal with, if, in fact, you want to be president of the United States.
Merle Black, the Emory University political scientist, referred to it "The New York Times" last week: "He starts out with a deck stacked against him. Obviously, he overcame this in Massachusetts. But he is going to be dealing with a different voting group on the national level" -- the fact that you're a Mormon.
GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: Right.
BLITZER: How do you deal with that, because there are people out there, presumably, who don't like that?
ROMNEY: Well, I think fundamentally, this is America. And Americans recognize a wide variety of faiths.
But they do want a person who is a person of faith. And I think, as they look at people who will be running in '08, they are going to look for folks that share their values. And their values are what is most critical, for conservative Christian voters, as well as Jewish voters, and those that come from different backgrounds.
BLITZER: John F. Kennedy overcame that problem, the first Catholic president of the United States. When Joe Lieberman was running for vice president, he was Jewish. As you know, he -- that was not much of a problem in that campaign.
But I will read to you what Pastor Ted Haggard, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, said the other day: "We evangelicals view Mormons as a Christian cult group. A cult group is a group that claims exclusive revelation. And, typically, it's hard to get out of these cult groups. And, so, Mormonism qualifies as that."
Is that a problem, as far as evangelicals are concerned?
(CROSSTALK)
ROMNEY: Well, it doesn't sound like I am going to get his vote.
(LAUGHTER)
ROMNEY: But I'm not going to worry about that, if I get into it.
The great majority of American people look at the character of the person, their track record, what they plan on doing, what their values are. I saw Jerry Falwell quoted the other day in a paper, saying: Look, if Mitt Romney decides to run, and if he's our nominee, I will be happy to work for him.
You are going to see most evangelicals support whoever they feel is closest to their values. And that may be me. It may be somebody else. But I don't think that people are going to ever disqualify someone and apply a religious test. The Constitution says that's prohibitive. We don't apply religious tests. And I doubt Republicans will either.
BLITZER: Here is a sensitive issue that has come up, because you raised it the other night, gay marriage.
ROMNEY: Yes.
BLITZER: Here is what you said: "Here in Massachusetts, activist judges struck a blow to the foundation of civilization, the family. They ruled that our Constitution requires same-sex marriage. Unless we adopt a federal amendment to protect marriage, what is happening here will unquestionably enter every other state."
ROMNEY: Yes.
BLITZER: This pits you at odds with a lot of people out there, including the daughter of the vice president, Dick Cheney, Mary Cheney, who was here in THE SITUATION ROOM not that long ago.
Listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY CHENEY, DAUGHTER OF VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: Same-sex marriage is obviously an issue that we can disagree on, and that this country needs to debate. But the notion of amending the Constitution and writing -- basically, writing discrimination into the Constitution of the United States is fundamentally wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. You want to tell our viewers why you disagree with Mary Cheney?
ROMNEY: Well, because marriage is a fundamental institution in our society. It's not primarily about adults.
The challenge that people have who are staunch defenders of gay marriage focus on adult rights. But marriage is primarily not about adults, but about kids. A child and their development and nurturing is enhanced by access and by the nurturing of two parents of two different genders.
And, so, as we think about the development of children, and the future of our nation and its ability to raise a generation, we need to have homes where there are moms and dads. So, I favor traditional marriage, not out of any sense of discrimination.
BLITZER: Because?
ROMNEY: And I think we should show an outpouring of respect and tolerance for people of differences and people that make different choices.
BLITZER: But let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that children who have two fathers or two mothers, two gay men or two lesbian mothers, that those children are going to be growing up in some sort of weird environment? Is that what you're saying...
ROMNEY: No. I'm...
BLITZER: ... that this going to affect their ability to be normal kids?
ROMNEY: I'm saying that the ideal setting for raising a child is where there is a mother and a father.
Now, of course, we have a lot of homes where there is a single mom. And that's not ideal, but, I mean, there are some -- but there are some great families.
BLITZER: If there two loving -- two loving parents who happen to be the same sex...
ROMNEY: There's no -- Wolf, there's no question, but that having access to a mother and a father, people of both genders, is the ideal for the development of a child.
BLITZER: But what if there's -- what if there are two loving parents who are of the same sex? Can't they raise a kid...
ROMNEY: Oh, sure. BLITZER: ... and make sure that that kid turns out to be a great kid?
ROMNEY: Sure, they can. And there will be circumstances of that happening.
But, overall, in a society, again, the right setting -- the ideal setting for raising a child is where they have access to a mom and a dad.
BLITZER: Should lesbians or gay men who are same-sex partners, should they be able -- should they be able to adopt children?
ROMNEY: Well, that's a state-by-state issue.
BLITZER: What do you...
ROMNEY: What I -- but my view is that we should have a constitutional amendment that says that marriage is defined as a relationship between a man and a woman.
And the reason it's so important to do at a federal level -- and I know some people say they are against gay marriage, but let the states decide. Well, if one state decides that they are going to have gay marriage, and they marry people from all over the country, then, every state ends up with gay marriage, because people move around this country.
And, ultimately, the Supreme Court may well say that, under the full faith and credit clause, if you're married in one state...
BLITZER: But...
ROMNEY: ... you're married in the other.
BLITZER: Well, let's get back to adoption for a second.
ROMNEY: Yes. Yes.
BLITZER: Should -- do you believe that gays and lesbians should be able to adopt children?
ROMNEY: Well, they are able to adopt children.
BLITZER: But do you think that's good?
ROMNEY: And I'm not going to change that.
BLITZER: Is that good?
ROMNEY: I'm not going to change that.
What I am saying is that marriage...
BLITZER: Well, what's the difference...
ROMNEY: What I mean to say is that...
BLITZER: What's the difference between children who are...
ROMNEY: Well, I will -- OK, let me...
BLITZER: ... adopted or children...
ROMNEY: I will give you an example.
BLITZER: ... who are born...
ROMNEY: Once a court, as it is in Massachusetts, says that we're indifferent between same-sex marriage and traditional marriage, then, what you have on the -- in our schools is a desire to avoid what they call heterocentricity.
So, we have kids in a second-grade class in Massachusetts being taught from a book called "The King and the King," where a prince doesn't find a princess to marry, but another prince. And they become the kings.
We begin to say that we're indifferent between a marriage between a man and a woman and two men or two women. And we're not indifferent as a society. Fundamentally, as a society, overall, we want homes with moms and dads.
Now, if individuals want to do -- take a different course and enter into contracts with one another that are between same-sex individuals, they're free to do so. But marriage, as a term and as an institution, should be associated with men and women.
BLITZER: You know, Mary Cheney, when she was here -- and she is a lesbian...
ROMNEY: Yes.
BLITZER: ... she said that you -- she didn't know what your position was, but those who support what you -- you want a constitutional amendment that would ban same-sex marriage -- are on the wrong side of history, sort of like the old laws that would prevent African-Americans from marrying white people.
ROMNEY: I'm afraid that's not quite a good comparison.
It's not the wrong side of history, because, actually, in the whole history of the world, from the very beginning of recorded history, marriage has always meant a relationship between a man and a woman.
Look, if two people of the same gender want to live together and enter into a contract with each other, so be it. But don't pretend that it's marriage. And society, as a whole, will benefit by having its children, on the average, raised by moms and dads.
BLITZER: Let's talk about abortion rights, because, on this issue, you have changed your opinion. ROMNEY: Yes. You know, I -- when I was elected governor...
BLITZER: You used to support a woman's right...
ROMNEY: Well, what...
BLITZER: ... to have an abortion.
ROMNEY: Well, when I was elected governor, I said that I didn't support abortion, but I wouldn't change the laws in Massachusetts.
And people said, well, that is effectively pro-choice. I didn't argue with them. I didn't take the label pro-choice. But I did take the label pro-life, following the debate associated with stem cell research.
I sat in my office and a provost of Harvard University and the head of stem cell research came in and said: Governor, this isn't a moral issue, because we kill the embryo after 14 days.
And that struck me as being a -- just a blow to the gut, because I recognized that we had so cheapened the value of human life, through the Roe v. Wade mentality, that I could no longer stand on the sidelines, if you will. I had to take sides.
And I call myself firmly pro-life.
BLITZER: So, you oppose embryonic stem cell research?
ROMNEY: Well, I favor using existing lines, as does the president, and using surplus embryos from in vitro fertilization. Those provide plenty of lines, as well what Dr. Hurlbut of Stanford describes as altered-state nuclear transfer, which is a type of embryonic development without actually creating a human embryo.
But I do not favor, if you will, what is known as embryo farming, taking donor sperm, donor eggs, putting them together in the laboratory, and creating new embryos.
BLITZER: And your current position on abortion rights for women is what?
ROMNEY: Well, I said I'm firmly...
BLITZER: Under what conditions should women be able....
ROMNEY: I'm firmly...
BLITZER: ... to have an abortion?
ROMNEY: I'm firmly pro-life. And my own...
BLITZER: Are there any exceptions?
ROMNEY: And the exceptions for me are with regards to rape and murder, and, of course, the risk of life, loss of life to the mother. BLITZER: So, if the woman's life is in danger.
ROMNEY: That's right.
BLITZER: Her health is endangered?
ROMNEY: No, her life is in danger, or in the case of rape or incest.
BLITZER: That's it?
ROMNEY: Yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: And this note. In his role as chairman of the Republican Governor's Association, Romney made, in this interview, a striking concession. He acknowledged that Democrats almost certainly will pick up enough seats on November 7th to control a majority of the governors' offices across the country. Right now, the Republicans control that majority.
And as we head into the crucial midterm elections, stay up-to- date with all the news -- the political news. Go to the CNN Political Ticker, the daily news service on CNN.com. It gives all of us the inside view of the day's political stories. Check it out, CNN.com/ticker.
Up ahead tonight, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, America marks a milestone, although it's not clear where. We're going to have details of the 300 million mark and what it shows about the country's makeup.
Also this -- Hillary Clinton and the name game. CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a close look at this. You're going to want to see what Jeanne has come up with tonight. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: America is marking a milestone today with demographers taking special note. It's believed that somewhere in the country, a baby was born this morning pushing the U.S. population to 300 million people. The question is, who was it?
CNN's Carol Costello joining us now live from New York with our "Welcome to the Future" report -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, who was it? It seems so anticlimactic, though. At 7:46 Eastern time, it came and life sort of goes on. Right now, we know of three babies -- OK, their parents -- vying for the title, although they may have lost already to an immigrant coming over the border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): That is the official population clock. At precisely 7:46 a.m. Eastern time, we theoretically greeted our 300 millionth brand new resident. But which baby was it? Zoe (ph) or Emanuel (ph) in New York, or Kya (ph) in Atlanta? All claim to be that 300 millionth bundle of joy. Zoe is half Jamaican and half Hispanic. Dad Garvin says that works for America.
GARVIN HUDSON, FATHER: The more diverse, the more ideas you have, the more creativity.
COSTELLO: And although all of this may seem a little exciting compared to 1967, it's downright boring. Back then, "Life" magazine sent photographers across the country to find the 200 millionth baby. Five hundred onlookers witnessed President Lyndon Johnson as the population clock hit 200 million.
This year President Bush, still in the White House at 7:46 this morning, didn't utter a peep about the new boom, until more than 10 hours later, when he issued a celebratory statement reminding us that America's greatest asset is our people.
Many demographers say the quiet celebration had everything to do with politics. Jacob Segal who worked for the Census Bureau in 1967, is quoted in "USA Today" saying, "There is no way that you can talk about our arrival at 300 million without pointing to the fact that immigration is such a heavy component of the annual growth." Not exactly a sexy political issue to play up these days, especially when you consider the cost of a rising population.
WILLIAM FREY, DEMOGRAPHER, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: We do have to be careful that we're much more economical about how we plan our growth, about how we take care of our consumption.
COSTELLO: Still, there must be some cachet about becoming the 300 millionth in America, if not for the politicians, then certainly for the three sets of parents vying for the title for their little ones.
HUDSON: Why not? Hey, I mean none of us are famous, why not let her come into the world, enter famous.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Why not let her have her 15 minutes of fame? So if Zoe or Emanuel of Kyra win the title as the 300 millionth American they won't get much except that 15 minutes of fame, although you can bet some reporter will track them down in 2043 when our population is expected to hit 400 million -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Carol, and they all have very cute names, too, all three of those kids. Thanks, Carol. See you here tomorrow.
Up ahead, Jack Cafferty is wondering how big of a national security threat if terrorists are entering our country through Mexico? Jack is standing by with "The Cafferty File."
Plus, Hillary Clinton and the name game. This is a special story that only our Jeanne Moos can put together. You're going to want to see this. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There he is, Jack Cafferty, and he's got "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf. A new congressional report confirms it officially now. Members of Hezbollah have entered the United States illegally from Mexico. The question is how big a national security threat is it if terrorists are entering our country through Mexico?
I know it's kind of a stupid question, but it's happening, and it's a little alarming.
Jonathan in Pittsburgh writes: "Does the threat get any bigger? We went to war in Iraq because they had WMD -- or at least that's what we were told. The threat doesn't get any bigger than WMD coming in from Mexico. And that being the case, our government will obviously do nothing about it."
Tom in Indianapolis: "I just returned from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico today. When I passed through their immigration screening, I was appalled at the laxness of their checking. I'm not surprised our enemies would select Mexico to cross our borders."
L.S. in Richmond, Virginia: "Jack, the Bush Republican empire has done absolutely nothing to protect us at our borders or ports. It's almost like they want us to be harmed."
P. writes: "As long as cities like Chicago protect illegal aliens, and the Bush dynasty wants cheap labor for their supporters, the borders will remain open and we'll continue to lose our country."
And Gene writes from Houston: "What border? I no longer live in Texas in the United States. I live in northern Mexico. I can tell by the road signs in Spanish, the ballots in Spanish. Even the signs in the local Wal-Mart are in Spanish, along with all the announcements. English is almost not spoken here."
We invite you to join us on Thursday at 7:00. We're going to look at what is wrong with our broken government. Immigration is going to be one of the topics we focus in on, along with the White House, Congress, and electronic voting.
We would like your ideas on what is wrong with this republic of ours. Send them to jackbrokengovernment@cnn.com, or you can send us your video at cnn.com/ireport. 7:00 Eastern time on Thursday night.
BLITZER: A day after tomorrow. Jack, we will all be watching. Stand by for that.
CAFFERTY: Thank you.
BLITZER: We are getting a developing story. I want to bring back Carol Costello. It involves North Korea. What are we picking up, Carol? COSTELLO: Well, we just got word that U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as we've been talking about all afternoon, she's on a trip to Asia, and of course the topic is North Korea. We're just finding out that she plans to ask South Korea to expand its role in a U.S.-led international program to stop the spread of weapons of mass destructions.
You might think South Korea was already doing that, but South Korea has been reluctant to fully participate in that program, because it feels it may upset North Korea and spoil the efforts to persuade the communist state to give up its nuclear ambitions. Rice is scheduled to arrive in Japan on Wednesday. She plans to visit Seoul on Thursday.
Of course, our own Zain Verjee is traveling with the secretary of state, and I'm sure she will have much more information on this in the hours and minutes to come on CNN, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Carol, for that.
Let's find out what is coming up right at the top of the hour, and that means Paula is standing by. Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Of course, given that development tonight, North Korea will lead off our show as well, and we are told that another nuclear test could happen at any time. The very latest on that crisis, as Carol just explained, as Secretary of State Rice flies to Asia for a round of emergency diplomacy.
Also, we're going to be going live to Baghdad as Iraq faces another day of raging violence. Thirty bodies were found in Baghdad streets earlier today.
And we're going to take a hard look at the war on home-grown terror. Remember the Liberty City seven accused of planning to blow up the Sears Tower? We are going to find out why some people say the case is nothing but air. They go as far to say, Wolf, it's nothing but a PR stunt on the U.S. government's part. We'll explore that accusation tonight.
BLITZER: Sounds like a very important report. We will be watching, Paula. Thanks very much. Paula coming up in a few minutes.
Still ahead tonight right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, name that senator. Many think they know her name, but as our Jeanne Moos will explain, there's more to a name than you might think. Jeanne Moos, that's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: You know her name, or do you? A highly recognized senator, whose political background is certainly well-known, but the background of her name is not. Here is CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She's become a one- name wonder whose name leaves you wondering.
Total strangers call her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary, how are you doing?
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I'm good.
MOOS: Newspapers call her Hillary, or even Chillary when she was mad at Bill.
(on camera): How about Hill? Do you like the word Hill?
CLINTON: Well, you know, my brothers have called me that from time to time.
MOOS (voice-over): But the question that has haunted Hillary is one that most folks find pretty easy to answer.
(on camera): The question is what is your first name and who are you named after?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diane, after the goddess, the hunter.
MOOS (voice-over): Whether your name is Richard...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I was named after Richard the Lionheart.
MOOS: ... or Barbara.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After my grandmammy.
MOOS: Or Donelle (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My father's name is Don, they wanted a son so they named me Donelle. So that's how I got my name. That's true.
MOOS: But the truth about Hillary's name has long been clouded.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary, Dillary, I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought she was named after the guy that climbed Mt. Everest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Sir Edmund Hillary? Oh, I didn't know that.
MOOS (on camera): Well, it turns out it's not true.
(voice-over): The story got a boost when Hillary met Sir Edmund Hillary in 1995 and mentioned that her mother used to mention him in connection with her name. Even Bill Clinton's autobiography describes Sir Edmund Hillary as -- "The man Chelsea's mother had been named for."
But a few years back, we asked Hillary herself. CLINTON: The story that I thought as a little girl is not quite right.
She used to tell me that I was named for Sir Edmund Hillary, because he, you know, did great things and climbed Mt. Everest. But the timing is a little off.
MOOS: See, Hillary was born in 1947, but Sir Edmund Hillary didn't climb Mt. Everest until 1953.
Folks like Jennifer here understand the confusion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My dad also said that I was named after "Jennifer Juniper" song by Donovan, but that's not true, either.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, you believe your mom.
MOOS (on camera): Yes, you do. Yes, you do.
(voice-over): The other day "The New York Times" made the same old Hillary mistake and had to correct it. The Clinton campaign told "The Times," "It was a sweet family story her mother shared to inspire greatness in her daughter, to great results I might add."
Tell that to the woman who first told us she was named after the goddess Diana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was named after Princess Di. Well, if Hillary can make it up, I can too.
MOOS: Hey, Hillary's setting the record straight. We're the ones making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Mole Hillary?
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Only Jeanne Moos can put those pieces together. Our video columnist, Jeanne Moos.
Stay with us. We'll be back here tomorrow. We're in "THE SITUATION ROOM" 4:00 p.m.
Let's go to Paula Zahn now in New York -- Paula.
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