Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Rogue Gunmen Tested Will Of Iraqi Police and Troops In Amara; General Abizaid Meets With President Bush
Aired October 20, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Abbi, for that.
And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, a bloody test in Iraq -- rogue elements trying to take over a city controlled by government forces. Now there are new questions, maybe some answers, on whether Iraqi forces are simply up to the test.
Urgent huddles over at the White House. The battle readiness of Iraqi troops likely one topic the president is discussing with his senior military advisers on Iraq.
But will they discuss a change in course?
And Tinseltown politics -- it's 2:00 p.m. in Hollywood.
Are some liberal movie stars now fans of former movie star and now Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger?
He's finding out.
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now, the ability of Iraqi troops to defend their nation is being called into serious question. In the southern city of Amara, all is said to be calm, but only after hundreds of rogue gunmen tested the will and might of Iraqi police and troops.
The concerns over what's happening come as President Bush meets with his top military commanders on Iraq.
We have two reports.
Our Suzanne Malveaux is standing by at the White House.
But let's begin with our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, here at the Pentagon today, officials continue to downplay what's happening in Iraq, insisting that given enough time, things will work out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): While it appears Iraqi police may have retaken control of Amara, for a time Thursday and Friday, it was overrun-by hundreds of Shia militiamen from anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army. The Iraqi police station was destroyed, black smoke billowing from three buildings flattened by explosives.
British troops, which turned the area over to Iraq months ago, were ready to go back in, but Iraq's government insisted they weren't needed.
Still, Amara now joins Ramadi and Balad as cities where Iraqi forces are supposed to be standing up, but instead have fallen down in their ability to contain sectarian fighting.
At the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld argued those setbacks are temporary and may be a result of a deliberate challenge to the U.S. plan to gradually cede areas to Iraqi control.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It might be because the enemy said well, fair enough, pass that over to the Iraqi forces. Let's focus on that, increase the effort against them and see if we can't take it away from them so that the press of the world will notice that we've taken it away. They're smart, the enemy. They've got brains and they use them.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld conferenced with top generals John Abizaid and George Casey by video hookup hours before Abizaid was summoned to Washington for more meetings for more meetings with President Bush and his national security team.
Rumsfeld described the hastily called session as a regular meeting, insisting it was nothing unusual. And he carefully parried questions about whether the overall strategy is under review.
(on camera): Mr. Secretary, can you just say plainly whether you believe a course correction is needed in Iraq or not?
RUMSFELD: I think the way I'll leave it is I'd prefer to give my advice to the president rather than you, Jamie. I'm old-fashioned.
MCINTYRE: Do you think the American public deserves to know whether you're considering making major adjustments rather than just refining tactics?
RUMSFELD: I mean no one on the National Security Council or a commander in the field makes a decision or sets a course and then puts their brain at rest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld continues to counsel patience, arguing that given enough time, the Iraqi government will come together and Iraqi forces will be up to the challenge. The question is how much patience does President Bush, and the American people, for that matter, have with Rumsfeld's strategy -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jamie, for that.
And given the unyielding violence, is it time for a new Iraq war strategy?
There are urgent talks over at the White House.
Let's bring in our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, those talks just wrapped up moments ago here at the White House. General John Abizaid, as you know, the U.S. commander for the Middle East, met with President Bush one-on-one this afternoon, of course, to talk strategy. Already the White House has dismissed suggestions of a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops or a partitioning of Iraq.
But the president, in these urgent talks, of course, looking for military guidance from the highest levels as to how to turn things around.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): With October likely to become the deadliest month for U.S. forces in nearly two years, President Bush held urgent White House talks with his top U.S. commander in the Middle East, General John Abizaid.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He is eager to hear about other ideas. But leaving is not going to work.
MALVEAUX: Publicly, Mr. Bush remains resolute that his Iraq strategy will not change.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the key issues in this election is who best sees the future and who best has the plan to deal with it. I firmly see the threats we face and the best way for America to protect ourselves is to go on the offense and to stay on the offense.
MALVEAUX: The president is under intense political pressure from critics, now including some prominent Republicans, to change course in Iraq. Saturday, Mr. Bush will hold a video conference call with his secretary of defense and his Iraq point man, General George Casey.
Mr. Bush maintains he will not pull out U.S. troops before Iraqis can govern and protect themselves. But he says he is open to changing military tactics to get the job done.
Skeptical journalists engaged White House Press Secretary Tony Snow in a war of words over the difference between change in strategy and change in tactics. SNOW: Well, I think what they're talking about...
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: ... strategy in your definition?
SNOW: I think -- I think they will agree with what I have described as strategy, which is...
RADDATZ: How come you're not going to -- you're not even considering a change in strategy -- no, Tony, sorry.
SNOW: No, Martha, no. But...
MALVEAUX: Frustration over language in the briefing room. But the question about what is to be done on the ground in Iraq remains unanswered.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And, Wolf, today Tony Snow dismissed a letter that was sent by the Democratic leadership to the president, suggestions about how to change the course in Iraq. One of those suggestions, to hold an international conference to deal with this. And, in his words, he said now it is -- cut and run-is now being augmented by walk and talk -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne, thank you.
Meanwhile, amid the debate over strategy, there's also the debate over which political party would do better handling Iraq. We posed that question to Americans in a recent CNN poll. Fifty-one percent said Democrats would do a better job, 34 percent said Republicans would do better handling Iraq.
The Iraq War a key topic on Sunday's "LATE EDITION." I'll speak about the war and the nuclear crisis with North Korea, the situation in Iran. Among my guests, former Secretary of State Alexander Haig, former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski.
"LATE EDITION" airs for two hours starting at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Sunday. "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk.
Let's go to CNN's Carol Lin.
She's joining us from the CNN Center with a closer look at some other stories making news -- hi, Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Wolf.
We have an update now on campaign controversy in California.
Republican Congressional candidate Tan Nguyen says he won't bow to pressure from local GOP leaders to drop out of the race. Nguyen is under fire after acknowledging that his campaign sent intimidating letters to thousands of Hispanic immigrant voters. Nguyen tells the Associated Press he won't quit the campaign because he didn't personally approve the letter.
Now, state law enforcement agents investigating the letter began searching Nguyen's campaign offices today. Nguyen is challenging a leading Hispanic lawmaker, Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez.
And voters in Arizona may have to bring their photo IDs when they go to the poll next month. Well, the Supreme Court ruled today Arizona can require voters to show photo identification when they vote in November's mid-term elections. But federal courts must still resolve a pending lawsuits that claims the state law disenfranchises thousands of people, including the elderly and minorities.
And the Palm Beach State Attorney's office has identified the Roman Catholic priest who allegedly molested Florida Congressman Mark Foley nearly 40 years ago. The Archdiocese of Miami says it's the Reverend Anthony Mercieca. He now lives in Malta. The Archdiocese is apologizing to Foley for the alleged abuse and says Mercieca is being banned from church work. It's also urging any other alleged victims to come forward.
Now, five years after 9/11, police and forensic experts are again digging through the rubble at New York's ground zero. Mayor Michael Bloomberg ordered the search after a contractor found human remains in a manhole at the World Trade Center site yesterday. The discovery outraged some victims' families. Bloomberg says crews will comb through areas that might have been overlooked before. The remains of more than 1,100 victims are still unaccounted for -- Wolf.
BLITZER: What a sad story that is.
Carol, thanks very much for that.
Jack Cafferty is off today. He'll be back next week.
Just ahead, the fear factor and the campaign -- we're going to show you a controversial new Republican ad that some say is fear mongering at its worst.
Also, from Beijing, our own Zain Verjee's exclusive interview with the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. Zane is the only television correspondent traveling with the Secretary as she meets with Asian allies to try to defuse the North Korean nuclear crisis.
Plus, the California Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, wooing Hollywood's traditionally Democratic elite. We're going to show you how and why.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Republican National Committee is taking a cue from 1964 in a controversial new campaign ad that some Democrats say is nothing more than fear mongering.
(VIDEO CLIP FROM "THESE ARE THE STAKES" CAMPAIGN AD) BLITZER: For more on the controversy, our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, is standing by in New York.
But let's get to the White House.
Once again, Suzanne Malveaux with more on this strategy -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Well, Wolf, the White House is certainly determined to keep the Republicans in power and there is one way that they know how to do this, and that is to get you to think about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUSH: We're fighting an enemy that knows no rules.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a hard fight.
RUMSFELD: Terrorists.
SNOW: Terror.
BUSH: Terror.
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Terrorism.
CHENEY: Terrorist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Terrorism.
BUSH: The war on terror.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): The Bush administration's message is clear -- be afraid, very afraid; the threat of terrorism is real and only the Republicans are suited to protect American people.
VIN WEBER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: There is an element of fear that properly ought to be instilled in people, and that has been in every previous world.
BUSH: There's an enemy that still lurks, an enemy that still plans, an enemy that still plots, an enemy that still wants to hurt the United States of America.
MALVEAUX: Democrats say it's fear mongering.
HOWARD DEAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: What the Republicans bring you is fear and smear.
MALVEAUX: Cut through both sides' spin, the strategy of focusing on this doomsday scenario is one that works. In 2002, Republican lawmakers successfully captured eight seats by making the fight against terror their party's platform. ANDREW KOHUT, PEW RESEARCH CENTER: It was before the war in Iraq and before the war in Iraq went badly.
BUSH: I see a great day coming for our country and I'm eager for the work ahead.
MALVEAUX: Two years later, President Bush successfully won reelection, despite the growing violence in Iraq, by painting his opponent, Senator John Kerry as weak on terror.
WEBER: The theme is that the Republicans are strong when it comes to security issues and the Democrats are not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CAMPAIGN AD)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's vicious and dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: The late President Reagan hammered that theme in his drive for reelection with his famous bear ad, representing the Cold War threat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM BUSH-CHENEY CAMPAIGN AD, 2004)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Kerry and the liberals in Congress voted to slash America's intelligence operations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: President Bush used a pack of wolves to illustrate the terrorist menace in his reelection bid.
WEBER: If the people don't feel some sense of threat, they're not going to vote on national security issues.
MALVEAUX: That's why analysts say the president and Republicans are constantly talking terror, now leading up to the congressional mid-term elections. But pollsters warn it may not work this time.
KOHUT: There's one word that explains it, and that is Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And, Wolf, the president addressed the whole notion, this idea of fear mongering in his press conference last week. He said -- I'm quoting here: "I understand that some are saying he's just trying to scare us. My job is to look at the intelligence and I'm going to tell you there's an enemy out there that would like to do harm to the United States because we're in a war -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne, thanks very much.
Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.
Let's get some more now, some analysis on what is going on with this latest ad.
Let's bring in our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.
He's in New York.
As soon as everyone of a certain age saw this Republican ad, Jeff, it, of course, harked back to 1964 and that very famous Daisy ad, especially as we heard that clock ticking.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That was an ad which, by the way, aired exactly once, that showed a little girl picking a daisy and then counting the petals. And then this ominous voice counted down to a nuclear blast and President Johnson said: "These are the stakes."
It's interesting that they -- this ad that the Republicans have called "The Stakes" to get together or go into the dark. The ad never mentioned Goldwater, but everybody got the message that this opponent of Johnson's might start a nuclear war.
And I think this ad is even more interesting. It doesn't say vote Republican. It doesn't show President Bush. It just says vote on the theory, I think, that if you have terror in the front of your mind when you go to the polls, you're more likely, Wolf, to vote Republican.
BLITZER: Do we really, though, have to go back 40 years to find an ad that instills this kind of fear in voters?
GREENFIELD: I think that -- I think the appeal to be worried is very consonant. In 1968, President Nixon, when he ran for election, said this time vote as if your whole world depended on it and showed images not just of the war in Vietnam, but violence and discord in the streets.
In 1976, when President Ford was being challenged hard by Ronald Reagan for renomination, one of his ads in the primaries said remember, Governor Reagan couldn't start a war, President Reagan could.
And then four years later, the Carter campaign tried to scare people about Reagan by having man in the street interviews in which people said Reagan scares me, he really scares me.
And as Suzanne mentioned, just in 2004, the Bush campaign very heavily hit this theme. There was an ad showing soldiers and weaponry being removed from the battlefield as they told us about John Kerry's vote, supposedly, to strip America of its defenses.
So it's a -- it's a pretty common theme in campaigns -- Wolf.
BLITZER: These are very, very grim images, but the question is this, can it be done with a lighter tough, shall we say?
GREENFIELD: Well, you just saw in Suzanne's piece the famous Reagan '84 ad, there's a bear in the woods. Some people think there's a bear -- the bear meaning the Soviet Union -- and doesn't it make sense to be prepared if there is a bear? It was very peculiar ad.
And then in 1988, who can forget -- if you're of a certain age -- when Michael Dukakis took that ill-fated photo opportunity and rode around on a tank with a rather odd-looking hat on his head, the Bush campaign promptly took that and put it in an ad, as if to say, do you really trust that guy?
Now, the more common theme is to be -- is to try to shake people up.
I forgot to mention in '84, the Mondale campaign did a famous red phone ad, with a phone ringing, supposedly a crisis phone, suggesting, do you really think Gary Hart is the guy you want on the other end of the phone?
So maybe the only thing we have to fear is fear itself, as FDR said. But it does seem to be a theme that comes up over and over again in some of our campaigns -- Wolf.
BLITZER: I suspect it's going to get even more intense over the next 18 days.
Jeff, thanks very much.
Jeff Greenfield, our senior analyst.
And as we had into the crucial mid-term elections, stay up to date with the CNN Political Ticker. The daily news service on CNN.com gives you an inside view of the day's political stories. Check it out, CNN.com/ticker.
Coming up, an exclusive interview with the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. She sits down with our own Zain Verjee, the only television correspondent traveling with her as the Secretary tries to defuse the growing North Korean nuclear crisis.
Plus a growing war of words between Israel and Iran, with the Iranian president calling Israeli leaders, and I'm quoting now, "a group of terrorists."
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There are new developments in that alleged threat to blow up so-called dirty bombs at NFL stadiums, a threat we now know was clearly a hoax. The young Milwaukee man investigators say was behind those threats is now facing federal charges.
Let's get the details from our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, he's just 20 years old. He's a grocery clerk and he could face five years behind bars and up to a quarter million dollars in fines for posting those prank threats. Authorities say that Jake Brahm admitted writing the postings. On them, he said that dirty bombs would be detonated this weekend at seven football stadiums. In fact, authorities say that he posted the warning about 40 times on different Web sites.
Now, as we reported yesterday, Wolf, agents say that he was apparently in competition with another writer to see who could write the scariest threat.
FBI officials say that Brahm didn't think that anyone would take his threat seriously, but apparently he was wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LES WISER, FBI: For Mr. Brahm, this is the big league. Don't mess with football. And this coming Sunday, the NFL referees won't be the only ones wearing stripes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Brahm did appear in court today. He was charged with conveying false information and threatening to damage buildings using weapons of mass destruction.
Now, his lawyer says that Brahm didn't really mean any harm.
As for the other guy who was in the writing competition, the FBI says that there won't be any charges against him because he did not take part in writing these threats -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for that, Kelli.
Kelli Arena reporting.
Coming up, he's a radical Shiite cleric in Iraq.
But how powerful is Muqtada al-Sadr? Powerful enough to stop Iraqi violence? Powerful enough to help decide to runs the Iraqi government?
Our Brian Todd has a special report.
And along for a critical diplomatic mission -- our Zain Verjee is the only TV reporter traveling with Condoleezza Rice as she tours Asia and talks about North Korea. Zane with her exclusive interview. That's coming up, as well.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: You're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, urgent White House talks with the top U.S. military commanders in the Middle East, General John Abizaid among them, as the situation in Iraq seems to worsen by the day.
Is the Bush administration weighing a major change in tactics?
Also, Democrats accuse the Republican Party of fear mongering with a new twist on an old campaign ad. Back then, the threat was nuclear war. Now it's terrorism. Republicans say it's the reality of the world we live in.
Plus, our own Zain Verjee's exclusive interview with the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. Zane is the only television correspondent traveling with Secretary Rice on an urgent mission to Asia to deal with the North Korean crisis.
I'm Wolf Blitzer and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
More now on our top story.
President Bush has been huddling with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the top U.S. commanders on the clearly worsening situation in Iraq. The initial meeting, which the White House says was previously scheduled, included the head of the U.S. military's Central Command, General John Abizaid.
But this comes amid ominous new developments in Iraq. A faction of a notorious Shiite militia allegedly seizing control of the southern city of Amara from Iraqi government forces, a contention disputed by British and Iraqi officials.
One potentially dangerous connection a radical anti-American Shiite cleric, widely seen right now as literally a king maker in Iraq.
Let's go to CNN's Brian Todd. He's got details -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Muqtada al-Sadr may or may not have started the fighting in Amara today. He was certainly instrumental in ending it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Sources tell CNN the trouble in Amara began with a fight between local police and a militia within Muqtada al- Sadr's Mahdi Army. It's not clear if al-Sadr knew that faction would temporarily take over the city. But during Friday prayers, al-Sadr called for the fighting to stop and within hours, relative calm had been restored in Amara.
Despite occasionally losing control of portions of his army -- one analyst dubbed them street gangs who often go their own way -- Muqtada al-Sadr remains one of the most powerful figures in Iraq, controlling at least 30 seats in parliament, four government ministries and his own army, that's proven to be a very dangerous enemy to U.S. and Iraqi forces, similar to another well-known militant group, says the author of "The Shia Revival."
VALI NASR, AUTHOR, "THE SHIA REVIVAL": Muqtada al Sadr is building his organization on the model of Hezbollah, militia plus political control, state within a state.
TODD: But the reach of this anti-American Shiite cleric still in his early 30's, extends even further. It's widely held that Nouri al- Maliki would never have ascended to the top of Iraq's government last spring, without the support of Muqtada al Sadr, a bond that goes back generations.
MARK PERRY, CONFLICTS FORUM: The party of Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq, is -- was started by al Sadr.
TODD: Analysts say that link wouldn't necessarily have prevented al Sadr from supporting someone else as prime minister if it was in his interests. But if al Sadr were to turn away from Al Maliki ...
LOUAY BAHRY, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Any withdraw of support to (INAUDIBLE) from the Sadrs would result in the fall of the cabinet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Muqtada al Sadr is not unchallenged. There's another powerful Shiite faction in southern Iraq led by grand ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, who al Sadr has had to broker deals with. But as an example of the power he does have, one observer in Baghdad told me today, if al Sadr wanted this fight in Amara to continue, it would have gone on for days -- Wolf.
BLITZER: I remember when he was wanted by U.S. military forces because they said he had American blood on his hands, Muqtada Al Sadr. Brian, thanks very much for that. So might this relationship between Muqtada al Sadr and the Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki be beneficial to one party involved but poisonous to the other?
Joining us now, our correspondent John Roberts, he's in Baghdad. John, it looks like the Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, a couple days ago, meets with this radical Shiite cleric, Muqtada al Sadr, and then guess what? Muqtada al Sadr's militia go ahead and they start beating up on the Iraqi military. What is going on?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Beating up on the Iraqi police in fact, Wolf. There was some people who believed initially that this was Muqtada al Sadr really thumbing his nose at Nouri al-Maliki after al-Maliki went to him saying I need help here to try to reign in these militias. Increasingly, it's looking like this was a local action perhaps the local Mahdi Militia in Amara got out of control all by itself. There was some tit for tat violence.
A police intelligence official was killed by a bomb, then the police went and they kidnapped a high-ranking member of the Mahdi militia, the Mahdi militia reacted after that. Muqtada al Sadr got involved today when it looked like the violence was spinning out of control, and a couple of police stations were torched. It looks like he put his foot down to say, wait a minute, what are you doing here?
You're not supposed to be in control of Amara, it's supposed to be Iraqi officials who are in control of Amara. Put down your weapons, stop the fighting, cease-fire immediately. He even sent a delegation there from Najaf to Amara to try to quell this violence Wolf. So it may be that Muqtada al Sadr was not directly involved in this, it was just the local militias that got out of control in what appears increasingly to have been a feud.
BLITZER: Is there though any evidence that the prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is about to clamp down significantly on these militias, these death squads? Because it looks at least from this distance, and we're pretty far away, you're right in the thick of things over there, like this situation could be falling apart?
ROBERTS: Well, he appears to be trying to do whatever he can, but his hands are really tied here. Don't forget he took one of those police brigades out of commission, he suspended a couple of top police officials who were believed to be involved with allowing people from these members of these death cells into the police forces.
But his hands as I said are really tied here because a great deal of his support, one of the reasons why he continues to be prime minister is because he has the support of Muqtada al Sadr. Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi militia is one of the most powerful military forces in this country and if al-Maliki was to suddenly crack down on the Mahdi militia, he may lose the support from Sadr and if he loses that support, Wolf, I would say that his political future would be in dire jeopardy.
BLITZER: You went in with U.S. troops, you were embedded with U.S. troops in April 2003, when Saddam went down, you're back now, give us a little personal flavor from your reporter's notebook how this situation there has changed so dramatically over these past three-and-a-half years.
ROBERTS: It has been three-and-a-half years Wolf, it was a war zone when I left in April of 2003. It's a war zone now in October of 2006. And there's no indication that things are about to get better. There was some heady days there, right after the fall of Saddam and when Saddam's statue went down there in the square in downtown Baghdad, people thought there might be a better future in store for Iraq and there may yet be.
But Wolf, from the very get-go, the marine unit that I was traveling with and other marines and soldiers that I talked to said, you know, we just don't have enough people here. We have enough people to win the war but we don't have enough people to win the peace. And that really seems to be coming to fruition now.
I mean it's been this way for a long time but it just keeps getting worse and worse. I don't think that there's any nice way to say it, Wolf, this place is an absolute mess. Whether it's going to continue to be a mess, that's the question that everybody wants to have answered and that's a question that no one has the answer to.
BLITZER: John Roberts is going to be in Baghdad in Iraq over the next few weeks. John be careful over there, thanks very much.
ROBERTS: Will do. Thanks, Wolf. BLITZER: You can see more of John Roberts this weekend on CNN's "This Week at War", he'll be joined by other CNN correspondents, reporting on the situation in Iraq. They'll also discuss the latest issues concerning Korea and Iran. "This Week at War" airs Saturdays, 6:00 p.m. eastern, Sunday at 1:00 p.m. eastern only here on CNN.
We're just getting this story developing, a major fire. Let's go to CNN's Carol Lin, she's watching this story for us. What are we seeing here Carol?
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well you're looking at a five-alarm fire Wolf in Anne Arundel County and Ft. Meade firefighters are on the scene right now, it's a five alarm fire. You can see the black smoke and the flames billowing from this building. We don't know what kind of building it is just yet, but we do know that at least one firefighter has been injured.
We're working on trying to find out the nature of his injuries. But clearly, a serious situation on the ground, because this building is attached to several others, and there's a good chance that this fire may spread unless they get a handle on it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ft. Meade is just outside Washington, D.C., just outside the beltway. It's also the home of the National Security Agency, the NSA. We have no idea -- it's a huge base, we have no idea if any of the NSA buildings are on fire right now. That hasn't been clear to us, is it, Carol?
LIN: No, this is just beginning to happen right now Wolf, it's a developing story. We just do know that it is a five-alarm fire, it's not much bigger than that. So they're concerned about it spreading and they're so far very concerned about an injured firefighter. We'll be working out those details for you Wolf.
BLITZER: All right we'll get back to you, Carol. Thanks very much.
Still to come, the secretary of state Condoleezza Rice in Asia right now urgently discussing the North Korean nuclear crisis with leaders in the legion. Our Zain Verjee is the only TV reporter traveling with her. Coming up, Zain's exclusive interview with the secretary. And are friendships stronger than politics? Are Democrats in Hollywood supporting Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: New developments in the North Korean nuclear crisis. A South Korean news agency reporting that the leader Kim Jong Il in North Korea has expressed regret over the nuclear test that sparked the current crisis with the U.S. and its Asian allies. The report also says Kim indicated North Korea has no plan to conduct a second test. We'll see. But there are conflicting reports from North Korea's state-run news agency.
Meanwhile, in Beijing, the secretary of state Condoleezza Rice has been consulting with the Chinese officials who have been talking to Pyongyang. Rice has also visited Tokyo and Seoul, her next stop will be Russia.
Our Zain Verjee is the only television correspondent traveling with Condoleezza Rice. She sat down with the secretary in Beijing for an exclusive interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think that this crisis can be resolved with Kim Jong Il in power?
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, the entire logic of the six-party talks and of the September statement of 2005 is that in fact it can be resolved with this regime in power, we will see. The North has said that it wants to denuclearize. There are benefits on the table if they do. We will see if they are prepared to do it, but they have to make a strategic choice to do it and this time they have to actually begin to dismantle. It doesn't make sense just to continue to talk.
VERJEE: President Bush has said that we're not going to live with a nuclear North Korea, but as the days and weeks will go by, it may seem as though the world and the United States may have to accept that.
RICE: Well, we will not accept a nuclear North Korea, and I think our goal and our job, and that of all the countries that I'm visiting here, is to show the North Koreans that they're not going to achieve what they want through a nuclear program. If they're looking for respect, they've got an isolation and a chapter seven resolution. If they're looking for access to the international financial system, they're being cut off from it. They're not going to achieve anything through this nuclear program.
VERJEE: Have you considered going to Pyongyang yourself?
RICE: Well I don't see that there is a reason to do so. The North Koreans would like nothing better than to have an isolated negotiation between the United States and North Korea so that they can violate agreements the way that they did in the 1990's.
VERJEE: So what do you have to lose?
RICE: What we have to lose is the power of five countries telling the North Koreans that the program is unacceptable. The North Koreans would like nothing better than to divide us, so that they can negotiate with each separately and they don't have to face the collective power of the five parties.
I just want to note, though, you know one of the great myths out there is that we don't talk to the North Koreans. In fact, in the context of the six-party talks, we've had many discussions with the North Koreans, dinners between Chris Hill, our chief negotiator.
VERJEE: But isn't that the perception too by the North Koreans, they feel that the six-party talks, even though it's one on one on the side, it's still a gauge of the level of hostility toward the U.S. versus direct talks.
RICE: No, this is a North Korean excuse. Come now. If they have anything that they want to say to us, if they really do want to talk to us, they're doing it. Chris Hill has had multiple discussions with his North Korean counterpart. One on one with no other countries at the table.
We've had dinner with them, all in the context of the six-party talks. That's just an excuse. What the north wants is to have a negotiation with the United States so that when they ignore the terms of the agreement, they can say, well, after all, that was with the United States.
What is troubling to the North is that for the first time, they're having to face the collective will of China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and now with resolution 1718, the entire international system. The north also knows that President Bush has said many times that we have no plans to invade or attack North Korea. And so the idea that somehow this is about security assurances is also an excuse. There is ...
VERJEE: Is it? Why not give them the security assurances?
RICE: There is an offer of security assurances in the September statement, the September agreement that was signed in 2005. All they have to do is take up that agreement, fully implement it --
VERJEE: They want you to lift financial sanctions they say before they were to come back --
RICE: We'd like them to stop counterfeiting our money and if they stop engaging in illegal activities you can be certain that the United States has no reason to engage in financial measures. But the president is going to defend our currency.
These are legal matters, and, again, the North Koreans have any number of excuses for why they can't take up the agreement that they signed in September of 2005. But what this behavior has gotten them now is the collective voice of the international system that a North Korean nuclear weapon is unacceptable, that the only path to gain back which that they wish to gain, is through denuclearization.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The secretary of state speaking in Beijing to our own Zain Verjee. Thanks for that. Up ahead, Arnold Schwarzenegger takes his re-election campaign to Hollywood. But will that liberal bastion become welcome the former actor turned Republican governor? We're going to check it out.
And coming up in our 7:00 p.m. eastern hour, New York Senator Hillary Clinton in her first debate with her Republican challenger John Spencer. They'll be facing off during our hour. We're going to have the latest for you. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We'll check back with Carol Lin for some other important stories. Carol?
LIN: That's right Wolf, an 89-year-old California man could face up to 18 years in prison for driving his car through a crowded farmers market and killing 10 people. A jury today convicted George Weller on 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence. Defense attorneys say Weller panicked and mistakenly thought his car's gas pedal was the brake in the 2003 incident in Santa Monica. But prosecutors said he showed no remorse.
And another tirade from Iran's president today, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad called Israeli leaders "a group of terrorists" and says Israel has lost its reason for existing. He also threatened any country that supports Israel, including the U.S. Now this comes just one day after Israel's prime minister warned that Iran would pay a price if it does not roll back its nuclear program.
And oil prices hit an 11-month low today, dropping below $57 a barrel. Analysts say the slide is a sign traders are skeptical that OPEC will carry out its pledge to cut oil production by a million barrels a day. That's all we have from here Wolf.
BLITZER: Carol, thanks very much.
There's some new evidence today suggesting that the earth is getting warmer, with the help of satellite imagery, scientists are saying that green land appears to be melting. Our internet reporter Jacki Schechner with details -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, what you're watching here is animation that comes from NASA.gov and these are two satellites that are part of the grace mission. Together, that they can measure changes in the earth's mass below them and for the very first time, scientists are able to use these high definition images to say they think Greenland is melting, they say that Greenland has lost three times as much ice as it's gained over the last couple of years.
Now NASA scientists have published in the Journal of Science saying that the climate is getting warmer, that's causing the ice to melt and that's causing global water levels to rise. What they say is that between 2003 and 2005, Greenland lost 41 cubic miles worth of ice. To put that into perspective if you melted that ice down and you spread the water out over the state of Maryland, it would then bury the state 10 feet deep -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, we'll be watching that story I'm sure. Thanks very much, Jacki, for that. I know Lou Dobbs is going to be watching that story. He's standing by to tell us what else is coming up at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Ten feet deep? All right, Wolf, thank you very much. Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, we'll be reporting on the outrage over the harsh prison sentences for two U.S. border patrol agents who shot a Mexican drug smuggler whom federal prosecutors gave immunity. And those prosecutors are strongly defending their handling of the controversial case, we'll have that special report tonight.
Also, the rising threat of chaos on election day. Election officials scrambling to hire troubleshooters for e-voting machines. But is it too late to prevent a disaster? We'll have that special report "democracy at risk." And the escalating war on the middle class, millions of American jobs being exported to cheap overseas labor markets.
Some members of congress who voted to send those jobs overseas could be severely punished in the upcoming midterm elections. That story and a great deal more at the top of the hour here on CNN. We hope you'll be with us. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou. We'll be watching. In the land where movies and dreams are made, certainly helps to have some powerful friends. Right now, the movie star turned Republican Governor of California is finding support from some surprising allies. CNN entertainment correspondent Brooke Anderson has more. Brooke?
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. In the race for governor of California, Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger is finding support in unlikely quarters.
Bill signings with George Clooney by day, hobnobbing with Jay Leno by night. As he runs for reelection, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is finding a warm reception in Hollywood, a town that's supposed to be hostile to Republicans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like Arnold.
ROBIN WILLIAMS: I think he's done some interesting things, I think he's taken a few chances.
ANDERSON: Has a place famous for its liberal values suddenly gone conservative? Not exactly.
RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN, CAL. STATE FULLERTON UNIV.: The notion that by supporting Schwarzenegger they're moving to the right I think is just incorrect. They're not moving anywhere.
ANDERSON: In fact, political science professor Raphael Sonenshein says the governor has endeared himself to Hollywood by shifting to the left.
SONENSHEIN: Supporting stem cell research, fighting against global warming, raising the minimum wage.
ANDERSON: Three years ago many Hollywood Democrats opposed the recall election that put Schwarzenegger into office and they were alarmed last year when he pushed a highly partisan series of ballot measures.
SONENSHEIN: That made him radioactive. ANDERSON: When voters rejected those ballot propositions, Schwarzenegger saw the writing on the wall and became a centrist again.
JOHN LITHGOW, ACTOR: He's embraced a lot of Democratic issues and I think everyone across the board is very relieved to see a major politician bucking the Republican tide.
ANDERSON: Schwarzenegger's opponent state treasurer Phil Angelides says people like Steven Spielberg and Danny Devito are supporting the governor simply because of long standing friendships. Angelides meanwhile can count on some Hollywood support of his own.
PHIL ANGELIDES, (D) CALIF. GOV. CANDIDATE: You know from Larry and Lory David, Barbara Streisand.
ROB REINER, ACTOR/DIRECTOR: I'm a Democrat and Phil is my guy.
ANDERSON: But in Hollywood, as in statewide polls, Schwarzenegger is finding the stars are mostly aligning in his favor. The latest "Los Angeles Times" poll puts Schwarzenegger's lead over Angelides at 50 to 33 percent -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brooke, thanks very much. Brooke Anderson reporting from Hollywood. Up next, is the U.S. ready for a woman president? Our "Welcome to the Future" report, that's coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Is the United States ready for a woman president? Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien with our "Welcome to the Future" report -- Miles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, our system of free enterprise and democracy is supposed to be a meritocracy. If that's the case why have so few women risen to the top in politics. Is there a glass ceiling keeping them from the oval office?
Steven Hess is a senior fellow of the non profit think tank The Brookings Institution. He says the time is right for a woman president.
STEVEN HESS, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think it's very likely that we're going to get a woman president relatively soon. There are enough women now in the on-deck circle ready to contend for that office.
O'BRIEN: Senator Hillary Clinton is in that circle. But has says her husband Bill is unlikely to take a back seat like the spouses of other international leaders. Republican Condoleezza Rice is also on deck. However, Hess says her chances are slim because she's never run for office. Either way, Hess believes the long-term impact will be minimal. HESS: After we get our first woman president, that people will be shocked about many things for about 30 seconds. And then they'll just go about their business until there's another election in which they'll either return them to office or throw them out.
O'BRIEN: The first woman to run for president in this country was Victoria Woodall. In 1872, that's before American women could vote -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Miles thank you. Jack Cafferty is off today, but you can catch Jack's special report Broken Government, it airs tonight, 11:00 p.m. eastern tonight. We're here in THE SITUATION ROOM Monday through Friday 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. eastern, back for another hour at 7:00. Let's go to Lou, he's standing by in New York -- Lou.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
