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The Situation Room
Recount Vote Expected in Florida's 13th District; Senate Race in Virginia Still Undetermined; CNN Projects Tester Victory in Montana; Interview with John Cornyn
Aired November 08, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. We're live here on Capitol Hill where powerful aftershocks are being felt from the election results and from the surprise announcement that Donald Rumsfeld is resigning. After months of standing by his defense secretary, President Bush now says it's time for him to go. The timing clearly not a coincidence after voters sent Mr. Bush an angry message about the war in Iraq.
On this day after the vote, the nail biter battle for control of the Senate now hinges on one undecided race in Virginia. Democrat Jim Webb has a slim lead over Republican incumbent George Allen. But there could be a recount that drags this out for many, many days.
In Montana, Republican Senator Conrad Burns is refusing to concede defeat to Democrat Jon Tester. But CNN now projects Tester will win that contest leaving Democrats just one seat short of controlling the Senate.
And the woman poised to be the next House speaker is making very big plans tonight. I spoke at length with Nancy Pelosi about the Democrats big victory in the House, their agenda at home and in Iraq and about Donald Rumsfeld's resignation. That interview, that's coming up ahead.
But let's begin with the president's November surprise. Even newly empowered Democrats who have been calling for Donald Rumsfeld's head never saw this coming. Mr. Bush today cutting Rumsfeld loose and tapping a new Pentagon chief, all just hours after most of the election results were in.
Let's bring in our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it really was a well-kept secret. We're told that Rumsfeld submitted his letter of resignation yesterday. And there were about 10 people inside the White House who were informed of this and then, today, perhaps in the sign of the changing times right before the president made the announcement, they reached out not only to the Republican leadership on the Hill, but also to the Democrat leadership alerting them that this news was coming including Nancy Pelosi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Donald Rumsfeld is out. Bob Gates is in. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In this time of war, the president relies on the secretary of defense to provide military advice and direct our nation's armed forces as they engage our enemies across the world. Secretary of defense must be a man of vision who can see threats still over the horizon and prepare our nation to meet them. Bob Gates is the right man to meet both of these critical challenges.
MALVEAUX: Before today the right man was always Donald Rumsfeld, but that was before the president's party got what he called a "thumping" in the midterm elections, losing the majority in the House and possibly the Senate? Just last week Mr. Bush said he intended to keep Rumsfeld for the remainder of his term. The stunning turn-around today had much of Washington in disbelief.
BlackBerrys buzzed as the news broke just before the president's press conference. Mr. Bush acknowledged he had been less than forthcoming with reporters about his intentions. That he and Rumsfeld had been talking about the possibility of him stepping down, but that Mr. Bush had only met his potential replacement Sunday at the Crawford ranch.
BUSH: The reason why is I didn't want to inject a major decision about this war in the final days of a campaign.
MALVEAUX: But Mr. Bush's decision to dump Rumsfeld was part political, part pragmatic and part conciliatory. The election was widely viewed as a referendum on the Iraq war and the president. Republican strategists and lawmakers were quietly telling the White House a dramatic change was necessary. The election fallout now means Mr. Bush must work with some of his harshest Democratic critics, including the new anticipated speaker of the House.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: With all due respect, Nancy Pelosi has called you incompetent, a liar, the emperor with not clothes and as recently as yesterday, dangerous. How will you work with someone who has such little respect for your leadership and who is third in line to the presidency?
BUSH: This isn't -- you know this isn't my first rodeo. I haven't -- this is not the first time I have been in a campaign where people have expressed themselves and in different kinds of ways.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And Wolf, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) have to tell you being on a campaign trail, seeing the president just a couple of days ago, when he was very aggressive, attacking the Democrats, and to see him today in the East Room, dramatically different, the mood in the East Room. Really there was a papilla sense of relief coming from the president and his aides. They were light. They were joking, as you saw, even turning the joke on himself. He made fun of Pelosi and the Democrats saying it had already begun to pick out the drapes in the new offices and today, of course he said, well, he's going to help them and he's going to come up with a recommended person to do just that -- Wolf. BLITZER: What a difference a day makes. Suzanne thanks very much. So who exactly is Donald Rumsfeld's replacement? As the president notes, Bob Gates has more than 25 years of national security experience. He worked his way up over at the CIA from intelligence analyst to director, a post he held from 1991 to 1993. He served under the first President Bush. In between he spent nine years over at the White House and the National Security Council, served under presidents from both political parties during those years in government -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: The war in Iraq had a huge impact, of course, on this midterm election. Now, just what sort of effect will these election results have on the war itself and our troops?
Joining us now from Baghdad, our Michael Ware. Michael, do you think the events of the last 24 hours will change anything on the ground there any time soon?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well certainly not in the short-term, Lou. I mean you cannot turn an oil tanker at sea on a dime. I mean even if there's the greatest intent or will for dramatic or urgent change it's simply not doable in such a short timeframe. And the real question that I'm sure the Iraqi government is asking itself, Tehran and Damascus will be asking, and commanders here on the ground will be asking is how real a change is this going to be.
Does this in fact signal some kind of a shift in strategic thinking within the White House? How much is this going to compound what could lead to a period of some strategic confusion as the House determines what its way forward shall be and how that works in concert with the administration, specifically the new secretary.
I mean the bottom line is everyone is going to be now wondering how will it impact strategy as it relates to here on the ground. And quite frankly, that's wide open in the wake of the election, and now in the wake of this stunning development with the resignation of Secretary Rumsfeld.
DOBBS: That resignation of Secretary Rumsfeld, Michael, you work with every day our troops in the field, there in Baghdad, what's the reaction of those troops to the secretary's resignation?
WARE: Well, it's very difficult obviously for the troops to talk, certainly publicly about their opinions of the secretary. I mean though civilian leadership that's the top of the military chain. They can't criticize their leadership. And since the announcement came here in Baghdad, 8:00 p.m. local time just on the eve of curfew, it's been impossible for me to speak to troops. But I know there's been enormous disenchantment with Secretary Rumsfeld and the troops will be hoping that this is a signal of some change. They just don't know what.
DOBBS: As do none of us. Michael Ware, thank you very much. Michael Ware reporting tonight from Baghdad. Well Jack Cafferty's in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Lou, the headline reads wings clipped for lame duck. That's a piece in the "New York Daily News" today, which suggests that it's all downhill from here on in for President Bush. Tom DeFrank wrote the piece.
He writes, quote, "Although salvaging the Senate would ease the pain somewhat, Bush is now a certified lame duck, whose power ebbs with each tick of the political calendar." But he adds, quote, "That doesn't mean he's a dead duck." DeFrank says it's it's up to President Bush to conduct foreign policy and he'll still be able to hold his veto pen over Democratic legislation.
However, it's certainly won't be smooth sailing, especially if the Democrats start investigations into some of Mr. Bush's policies like the war in Iraq. Here's the question then.
How will the next two years be different for President Bush? E- mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jack. A nail biter in the fight for the control in the United States Congress, Democrats and Republicans battling out for the last two seats. Montana and Virginia down to the wire. Find out if these races are heading to a recount.
Plus, getting in line for the White House. Our -- one election is over, but now the title fight is about to begin. We're going to tell you why the race to the White House is about to heat up fast.
And the presumed Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, she's had some sharp words for the president in the past, so can she work with him to actually get things done in Washington. I'll ask her.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: And this just coming in, a possible, possible recount in Florida. Susan Candiotti is working the story. She's joining us on the phone. Susan, what's going on?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Wolf, this involves the race for former Congresswoman's Katherine Harris' old seat. Remember, she was running for the U.S. Senate and failed in that race.
This is the race for her old seat. It's District 13 in Florida and only 364 votes separate the two candidates. Currently the GOP candidate Vern Buchanan is in the lead over challenger -- Democratic challenger Jennings. And she currently has held a press conference to state that she might be asking for a recount, but it might be automatic in the state of Florida.
However the state supervisor of elections in the county of Sarasota says that she -- there was no mechanical problems with the machines. Here's the problem, 18,000 people in Sarasota County did not vote in that race, though they did vote for that race in other counties in that district.
So at this time, the supervisor of elections and the secretary of state of Florida are unable to explain why there was such a huge under vote in that particular race. They're trying to figure it out. And they will be deciding soon if there will be a recount. The State Commission is going to be meeting on Monday of next week and will decide. Because there is such a low number of votes separating the two, it would seem as though a recount might be automatic, but that's not been determined yet.
BLITZER: Susan thanks very much.
And to the victors go the spoils (ph) and potentially control of the U.S. Senate. In Virginia, two men carry the fate of the Senate on their shoulders. And in Montana, one man claims victory while his opponent refuses to concede.
We have two reports on this Capitol Hill cliffhanger. CNN's Dan Simon is in Billings, Montana, but let's go to CNN's Ed Henry. He's got developments on the Virginia race. He joins us from Richmond. Ed, where do things stand in Virginia tonight?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, it's interesting. And this race, as you know, was already pretty down and dirty, charges of racism and sexism going back and forth between the Republican incumbent George Allen and the Democrat Jim Webb. Now both sides are bracing for it to potentially get uglier if in fact it becomes a bitter recount fight.
That's because Democrat Jim Webb has now pulled ahead by just 7,000 votes over Republican Senator Allen. And really, Jim Webb is trying to almost have an aura inevitability. He's calling himself Senator-elect Webb. He's preparing to get a Capitol office already.
He's really trying to make it like a done deal. But Republican Allen last night would not concede anything. And so what's going on is both sides are really preparing. They're getting lawyers together to prepare for the possibility of a recount fight -- so far no recount. You have to go through a state mandated review. They're doing that right now. That takes a week. Then a decision will be made about a recount, Wolf.
BLITZER: What's the likelihood, Ed, of a recount?
HENRY: Well, at this point there really has been no major evidence of some severe problems or anything that would really turn this around in Senator Allen's favor. So he is just sort of letting this play out a little bit, let the state mandated review go forward.
A lot of Democrats are trying to pressure him to finally concede. But Senator Allen doesn't really lose very much by letting this play out a little bit. He's not calling for the recount yet, but you're going to maybe start seeing some Republicans say, look, if there's no evidence, why don't you concede, move on because they really don't see any reason to launch some big legal challenge, Wolf.
BLITZER: Ed, thank you -- Ed Henry reporting -- Lou.
DOBBS: Wolf, let's turn to another extremely close race, a Senate race out in Montana. Their victory has been claimed, but it has not yet been conceded.
Our Dan Simon has the latest for us -- Dan.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou only 3,000 votes separate the two men, Senator Burns and Mr. Tester, but right now we can say this seat is safely in the hands of Democrats. Even so, Senator Burns put out a statement today, not conceding defeat. The statement says, quote, "Jon Tester ran a good race and has the lead right now, but it's extremely close. The state of a Montana has a process in place and it's our obligation to see it through. There are still votes out there that deserve to be counted."
Apparently what Senator Burns is referring to are about a 1,000 provisional ballots that still need to be counted according to the Secretary of State's Office. But even so, he simply cannot make up the deficit. Right now, Jon Tester is leading by 3,000 votes and mathematically and statistically, it's a deficit that Senator Burns can't overcome.
Earlier today, Jon Tester called for Senator Burns to concede. He was also declaring victory. At this point, Senator Burns not willing to do so and he's not going to put out a statement -- any more statements this evening -- back to you, Lou.
DOBBS: Dan, thank you very much -- Dan Simon reporting from Billings, Montana.
The fight for Congress turns into a race for the White House, from rising stars to old faces. The political maneuvers have begun. We're turning our eyes to 2008 already.
Also, woman in charge -- Nancy Pelosi poised to be the next Speaker of the House, the first in the country's history. Does she plan to cut funding for the war in Iraq? That's among the questions that Wolf will be asking.
And Donald Rumsfeld's greatest hits, Jeanne Moos on the problems that captured -- and moments that captured the nation.
And Wolf, I have always wanted to say this. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Mark your calendars. This is unofficially the first day of the race for the White House. Not necessarily exactly, but unofficially you can bet the '06 results already are figuring into the 2008 equation.
Here's our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So Wolf, you figure today was all about last night. Boy, were you wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Out with the old, in with the new, on to the next thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Ohio goes in '06, so goes the nation in '08!
(APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY: It's a touch early to put Ohio in the Democratic column for '08, but across the country a sort of politicians are dissecting the entrails of '06 with the Oval Office in mind. Not that anyone running for president will actually cop to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's something that I've got to spend some serious time thinking about.
CROWLEY: Roughly 10 percent of the U.S. Senate is thinking about running for president along with a couple of current and former House members and several governors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven't made that decision yet.
CROWLEY: Most of them say that, but check out the visual here -- flag to the left of him, flag to the right. You can kind of picture this guy in the Oval Office and that's the point. McCain's ambitions are complicated by the '06 results with much of the country wanting a plan to get out of Iraq; he thinks the way out is to put more troops in.
McCain's lead position and the tough guy category has been challenged by Rudy Giuliani, his honor, the in your face 9/11 New York mayor. He's been frequenting areas west of the Mississippi and south of the Mason Dixon where so far they have politely ignored that he is pro gay rights, pro choice and pro gun licensing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When things aren't working you need new people.
(MUSIC)
CROWLEY: The Democratic senator from New York capped her reelection celebration Tuesday night to the tune of "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet", but Wednesday morning she still ain't showing anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When will you address the question of whether you'll be running?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: You know I am going to relish this victory.
CROWLEY: Hillary Clinton is the political world's most reluctant bride. She hasn't set foot on the presidential trail, running from Ohio to New Hampshire, making her all the more appealing. The latest CNN Opinion Research Corporation Poll shows Hillary in dead heat with Republican front-runners John McCain and Rudy Giuliani.
Warning sign, her negatives are twice those of potential Republican rivals, though she fairs better than John Kerry whose unfavorables are 51 percent. Senator Clinton's pull is so strong she's in a class all her own. The other class is known as the not Hillarys, generally less controversial, more centrist options like former Vice Presidential Candidate John Edwards or Indiana Senator Evan Bayh.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: From rising stars to new faces, from the left to the right, to every place in between you're going to need a scoreboard to keep track, but the game is on -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Candy, thank you.
Coming up -- resignation ramifications -- might Donald Rumsfeld's departure signal a major turning point for the war?
Also, Nancy Pelosi poised to become the first ever female Speaker of the House. I'll speak with her one-on-one about the privilege and perils of the Democrat's newly-acquired power.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back to this special edition "America Votes 2006", this edition of THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Lou Dobbs, privileged to be joining my colleague Wolf Blitzer on his SITUATION ROOM. We return not to today's bomb shell announcement on the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld. He of course put his stamp on this Pentagon and on the war in Iraq. Does his departure mean a change in American strategy in Iraq?
Let's turn to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre for the answer -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the departure of Donald Rumsfeld, which is imminent now, clears the way for a major course correction in Iraq if both Democrats and Republicans agree that's what's needed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Returning at day's end to his home in Washington, Donald Rumsfeld showed no sign he had been abruptly replaced by his boss, President Bush, who just last week gave him a public endorsement. As the chief architect of an increasingly unpopular war, Rumsfeld had become a political liability who Mr. Bush says admitted in private conversations over the past few days that the Iraq war needed a fresh perspective. BUSH: He himself understands that Iraq is not working well enough, fast enough.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld who always said he served at the pleasure of the president and gave no indication he would leave on his own said in his parting statement the war against terrorism he oversaw is little understood.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It is not well known. It was not well understood. It is complex for people to comprehend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's announced departure was greeted by a blizzard of statements from Capitol Hill, both Republicans and Democrats welcoming the opportunity for a fresh start. Now some Democrats are advocating what they call a strategic redeployment for U.S. troops away from the front lines, but by picking Robert Gates as the man to replace Rumsfeld the White House seems to be signaling some indication that it might give more weight to the recommendations of that Iraq study group of which Mr. Gates is a member and whose recommendations are due out sometime before the end of the year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, what has been the reaction amongst those serving in the Pentagon to this announcement? To what degree do they have a premonition that something was happening and how are they reacting?
MCINTYRE: You know almost and nobody knew this was coming, basically because President Bush seemed to have given Rumsfeld a ringing endorsement earlier last week. And most of the people coming in, even the top Rumsfeld aides had no idea this was happening today. Now for Rumsfeld loyalists they call this a sad day, but obviously his management style did rub a lot of people the wrong way and there are some who are happy to see him go.
But whether they are a fan of Rumsfeld's or whether they're one of his detractors, the general agreement seems to be that this creates an opportunity to start anew and if there's some real bipartisanship here maybe they can come up with a way ahead and out of Iraq. The alternative, of course, is if it just disintegrates into politics as usual -- Lou.
DOBBS: All right. Thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon. Wolf over to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou.
As Democrats prepare take control of the House of Representatives, the current Minority Leader, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi of California, is set to become the nation's first female speaker. I sat down with her here on Capitol Hill for a one-on-one interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Let's talk about the news of the day. Lots of news, but we'll start with Donald Rumsfeld. A bombshell announcement. Only a few days ago, the president said he was doing a fantastic job, together with the Vice President Dick Cheney. Is this what you wanted, Rumsfeld to step down?
PELOSI: Yes, well, there were two major interventions since the president's last reaffirmation of his support for Secretary Rumsfeld. One was, of course, the vote and the voice of the American people yesterday, rejecting the stay the course policy of the president in Iraq.
And just before that, the voice of the military in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps Times, saying that "Rumsfeld must go," to use their words. The president got the message, thank heavens, and I think it signals a new change, I hope, for the better in Iraq.
BLITZER: What do you think of his designated successor, the former CIA director, Robert Gates?
PELOSI: Well, this is a matter for the Senate to deliberate on, and the president has proposed, they will confirm, and I very much look forward to the hearings on that nomination.
BLITZER: But fundamentally, do you think there will be a real change in U.S. policy toward Iraq, or this is simply changing the cast of characters? Will the president, in other words, do what you want him to do?
PELOSI: Well, first of all, the president is the commander in chief. Donald Rumsfeld and whoever the president appoints are -- gets confirmed -- Mr. Gates, in this case -- is an employee of the president. So the policy is the president's. The implementation of the policy is Mr. Rumsfeld's, and that's why I think it was very important for him to go.
BLITZER: If the president pursues the current policy, as you call it, stay the course, which he no longer uses that phrase, one option would be, in the House of Representatives, the power of the purse, to cut funding for the war in Iraq. Is that on the table?
PELOSI: Not really. We would never...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Why isn't it on the table?
PELOSI: Well, because our troops are in harm's way. They have been sent there, whether you agree with the policy or not, and I certainly did not agree with the resolution to go to war. We would not withhold our funding for the troops there.
BLITZER: So what can the House of Representatives do, as you -- with you as speaker, if the president, over the next two years, continues the strategy, the policy as is? PELOSI: Well, what we have done in the House and Senate now, with a majority -- a Democratic majority in the Senate, I anticipate, Senator Reid and I, the Democratic leader there, have put forth some principles for solving the problem in Iraq.
BLITZER: You can make recommendations, basically.
PELOSI: Yes.
BLITZER: But there's not much more if you're not going to use the power of the purse. There's not much more that you could do. You could do some oversight.
PELOSI: Well, the oversight will be very important because then the truth would be revealed. But remember that stay the course has with it -- whether it's the president changed the slogan, he hasn't changed the strategy or the approach. And on the -- stay the course also implies staying the course as having a one-party policy in Iraq. Even his own Republicans, in some cases, are deserting him on this.
So I think in the interest of our national security and protecting the American people and bringing stability to the region, and to honoring our commitment to our troops, we need a different approach. And extending the hand of partnership to the president -- not partisanship, but partnership -- to say let's work together to come to some common ground where we can solve the problem in Iraq.
BLITZER: Can you work with this president?
PELOSI: Sure.
BLITZER: Because he was asked at the news conference earlier today about some things you've said of him. Our Suzanne Malveaux asked a very pointed question to the president, quoting some of the remarks, "a liar," and "misleading the country."
PELOSI: I never called the president a liar. I never called him that.
BLITZER: But do you have a problem working with this president? Is all that in the past now? Are you ready to start fresh in working as the incoming speaker?
PELOSI: Absolutely. You know, the campaign is over. Democrats are ready to lead, prepared to govern, and absolutely willing to work in a bipartisan way in partnership, not partisanship, with the Republicans in the Congress and with the president of the United States.
BLITZER: The vice president said the other day the president has made clear what his objective is. It's victory in Iraq and full speed ahead on that basis, and that's exactly what we're going to do. Do you consider that statement that was pre-election still operable?
PELOSI: I would say to the vice president that it's a little too late for full speed ahead. We've been in Iraq three-and-a-half years, longer than the U.S. was in Europe during World War II, so full speed ahead, I don't think so. Right now, again, we need a new direction that brings stability to the region and makes the American people safer.
BLITZER: The power that you will have as the majority is subpoena power, when you conduct your investigations, your oversight. You said on "Meet the Press" back on May 7th, "Well, we will have subpoena power. Investigation does not equate to impeachment. Investigation is the requirement of Congress. It's about checks and balances."
Tell us how you plan on pursuing using this subpoena power.
PELOSI: Well, first of all, others have said to us, do the Democrats want to get even now that we're in the majority? We're not about wanting to get even. What we want to do is to help the American people get ahead, not to get even with the Republicans.
And so, as we go forward with our hearing process and -- which is the normal checks and balance responsibility of Congress, it will be to what is in furtherance of passing legislation that makes the policy better, that improves the lives of the American people. In order to make important decisions, you have to base them on facts. That's the only way your judgment...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: So you'll use that subpoena power as appropriate?
PELOSI: Well, it's not a question -- well, subpoena power is a last resort. We would hope that there would be cooperation from the executive branch in terms of investigating the pre-war intelligence. I don't know -- those decisions will be made by our caucus with the wisdom of the committees of jurisdiction.
They may or may not be a priority. We're a brand-new caucus, we have many new, excellent members coming in and we will establish our priorities together. But we will not abdicate our responsibility as the first branch of government, Article I, the legislative branch and our checks and balances responsibilities.
BLITZER: I asked the question about subpoena power because the vice president once again made clear if you subpoena him, he's not necessarily going to play ball. "I have no idea that I'm going to be subpoenaed," he said the other day, "and obviously we'd sit down and look at it at the time, but probably not in the sense that the president and vice president are constitutional officers and don't appear before the Congress."
PELOSI: Well, as you know, President Ford did and he wasn't subpoenaed because he came without a subpoena, but why are we even talking about this? We're so far from that. We're at a place where we're here about the future.
Whatever information we need to make the future better, to go forward, whether it's to protect our country, to end our engagement in Iraq, to make our economy fair, whatever it is -- we need to move towards energy independence, I might add -- that's where our priorities are. Information is central to that. So we would have hearings to obtain information.
BLITZER: We'll wish you only the best on that front as well.
PELOSI: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And another election aftershock, the House Speaker Dennis Hastert today announced he won't seek a leadership post in the next Democrat-controlled Congress. The Illinois Republican says he'll return to what he calls the full-time task of representing the people of his district.
And a leading Republican's take on Donald Rumsfeld's resignation and what it may mean for America's future in Iraq. Senator John Cornyn of Texas standing by to join Lou right here in the SITUATION ROOM.
And say what you will about Donald Rumsfeld, he's always been outspoken, colorful and controversial. Jeanne Moos will take a closer look at Donald Rumsfeld's greatest hits.
And will the next two years be all that different for President Bush after the Democratic earthquake here on Capitol Hill? Jack Cafferty standing by with your e-mail.
We're live on Capitol Hill and you're in the SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, at the top of the news this evening, the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld. How will this election aftershock affect the war in Iraq? How will his resignation affect the war? Joining me now, Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas.
Senator Cornyn, good to have you with us.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: This change on the part of the administration, this abrupt change, what's your reaction first of all, to Rumsfeld's resignation?
CORNYN: Well, you know, being secretary of defense during a time of war is an awfully tough job. And, actually, being secretary of defense for six years is fatiguing beyond imagination. So, I have a lot of respect for Secretary Rumsfeld.
But I certainly understand why it's important, particularly now after the message we got last night, for us to come up -- for the president to come up with a new secretary, perhaps some new ideas so we can win the war, hopefully working on a bipartisan basis to do so.
DOBBS: Senator, did you have any idea that Rumsfeld would be leaving today?
CORNYN: I did not. I was as surprised as anybody, although, obviously, there had been a lot of discussion about it for awhile.
DOBBS: Sure.
CORNYN: And I don't think that Secretary Rumsfeld wanted to leave under under people's terms. He wanted to leave under his own terms. And, of course, this president's a very loyal person and demands loyalty from his cabinet members. And I think it was a mutually agreed decision.
DOBBS: The number of people, Senator, who wrote in to me to say, I thought this secretary of defense was about not cutting and running. This looks like cut and run to me. How do you take it?
CORNYN: Well, I think the new nominee, Bob Gates, is a good nominee. I'm interested in talking to him and learning more about his ideas about how do we adjust to the different tactics we're encountering in Iraq. How do we continue the transformation of our military from a post-Cold War military to a new, more agile military?
But I think, you know, I give Secretary Rumsfeld a lot of credit. It's a tough job and no one does it perfectly. Have mistakes been made? Well, sure, they have, but that's not really the test because I haven't met a secretary of defense or a human being period who's capable of flawless execution of any plan. But I think he's done a pretty good job, and I wish him well.
DOBBS: It's always easy in Washington terms to forget, I think, as the saying goes. None of us is perfect and we're all senators. The fact is, however, though, that Donald Rumsfeld stands squarely in the crosshairs of history in the conduct of this war.
You mentioned transformation. Is it unrealistic to be talking about a transformation of the U.S. military and the Pentagon at a time where we're trying to preserve the lives of first, American men and woman in Iraq and also provide the security necessary for the people of Iraq?
CORNYN: Well, it certainly is an incredibly difficult job, and there's a lot of different moving parts. I think, you know, we clearly do have to adjust from a post-Cold War, Soviet threat to a new threat from the war on terror.
But, you know, look, I think he's tried to do his best and that's all you can ask from someone. But I do think it's time for someone else to have a chance to do it. And, ultimately, this president's going to be the one that calls the shots based upon the advice and the implementation of a new secretary.
DOBBS: President Bush today in his news conference seemed delighted at the question about comprehensive immigration reform. You and Senator Kyl of Arizona proposed, what at least to me, is the most rational border security plan and illegal immigration plan proposed.
The president seems to embrace -- did embrace, in point of fact, in that news conference -- a Democratic Congress in which he said he thought he had a better chance of pushing through an amnesty proposal. What's your reaction?
CORNYN: Well, of course, I don't support a repetition of the amnesty mistake of 1986. I hope we would have learned from that, and frankly, I think what we have learned since we past the immigration bill in the Senate and the House -- and I, of course, didn't support the Senate version, but I supported rolling up our sleeves and getting down to work and trying to hash this out and come up with a good solution.
I think Senator Kyl and I came pretty close to finding the middle ground, where we could get broad acceptance and convince the American people we're actually going to have a system that works while we secure our borders.
DOBBS: Senator, let me turn -- we're just about out of time, but I have got to ask you this. The middle class in this country, working men and women in this country, very concerned about their well-being.
Do you think the results of yesterday's elections or last night's elections or this morning's election, depending on how you stretch it, offered up a lesson on a direction between the interest of working men and women and their families in this country and the Republican Party, a direct direction? By that I mean working in the interest of our middle class directly on the part of the Republican Party.
CORNYN: Well, elections are great wakeup calls. And sometimes they're painful, but I think what it was is a wakeup call by the American people to let us who served them know who's in charge. And we're not in charge. They are. We work for them, and I think we do need to be responsive to their concerns. We need to be much more demonstrably so now in the future. I think this has been a wakeup call to remind us of that.
DOBBS: Senator John Cornyn, as always good to talk with you, sir.
CORNYN: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Senator Cornyn coming to us tonight from Austin, Texas.
Wolf, over to you
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou.
Still ahead he's never at a loss for words, even if some of those words might befuddle his listeners. Donald Rumsfeld's more colorful isms. Jeanne Moos has that.
And Jack Cafferty's question of the hour -- how will the next two years be different for President Bush? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well this is one of those rare moments in television news history. Jack Cafferty and I both in THE SITUATION ROOM at the same time. Jack, now with "The Cafferty File." Jack?
CAFFERTY: I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
DOBBS: Oh, it's a great thing.
CAFFERTY: We'll leave that for others to decide. OK, thanks, Lou.
The question this hour is as follows: How will the next two years be different for President Bush?
Chris writes: "The president will now voluntarily or involuntarily have to come to grips with the fact that his legacy will in large part be determined by the actions and agendas of others. His dreams or expectations of personal greatness will be highly tempered by forces he doesn't control."
Z. writes: "He'll hear the word no for the first time in his life."
Alex in Montreal: "Bush will now be free from the stranglehold of the neocons and might be surprisingly willing to work in a bipartisan manner with a Democratic Congress."
Todd writes from Los Angeles: "George Bush may still consult a higher power for winning his war in Iraq, but now he'll have to consult with the rest of us too."
Gary in Kalamazoo, Michigan: "This is Bush's opportunity to look like the kind of statesman his father really was, and nobody's an opportunist like G.W. Bush. By 2008, Bush is going to appear to be a centrist because he has no real beliefs."
Brian writes: "I think the president has the same status right now as he did on the first day of his first term, except they'll only be no honeymoon this time around. Instead, he will have the bride's father looking at him down the barrel of a shotgun full of subpoenas."
And Pete writes from Arkansas: "Does life change for a school yard bully when his gang leaves the hood? You betcha."
Wolf?
BLITZER: Jack, thanks very much. Jack Cafferty reporting for us. Still to come, tongue twisters and truthiness. Jeanne Moos has Donald Rumsfeld's greatest hits. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're watching all of the dramatic developments unfolding here in Washington, especially the battle for the U.S. Senate. Right now, we have projected Montana will go in the Democratic column. All eyes remain on Virginia right now. The Democratic challenger, Jim Webb slightly ahead, slightly ahead of the Republican incumbent George Allen.
Also other big news today, the resignation of the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. For better or worse, he's always been a key architect of U.S. military deployments around the world over these past six years. And for better or worse, he's turned some inescapable phrases and racked up quite a notebook of so-called isms. CNN's Jeanne Moos shares some of the most notable.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you're the owner of a "More Gin, Less Rummy!" T-shirt, your T-shirt is about to come true.
NORAH O'DONNELL, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: A bulletin here from the "Associated Press."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news.
MOOS (on camera): Did you hear the news that Donald Rumsfeld has resigned?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank god.
MOOS: Donald Rumsfeld has resigned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh yes. You're kidding.
MOOS: No, I'm not kidding. It happened about an hour ago.
(voice-over): Well, this is New York. And even here, not everyone was ecstatic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he was treated unfairly by the media and the Democrats. And just what does he need it for? He's a wealthy man, he doesn't need this aggravation.
MOOS (voice-over): The man nicknamed Rummy was known for ruminating. He was awarded the "foot in mouth" award from the British Plain English campaign for this one.
RUMSFELD: There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know.
Are you talking about that silly compact disc that some opera singer sings? Now if that doesn't tell you something about the state of the world.
MOOS: But even President Bush knowingly referred to what's known at the official announcement of Rumsfeld's departure.
BUSH: Well Mr. Secretary, here is a known known. Your service has made America stronger.
MOOS: His quotes have been collected on Web sites, even a BBC site.
RUMSFELD: If I know the answer, I would tell you the answer. And if I don't, I'll just respond cleverly.
MOOS: Rumsfeldisms ended up on bumper stickers, on shirts.
RUMSFELD: I don't do diplomacy. So you ought to just back off.
MOOS: When the war in Iraq was going well, Rumsfeld was a hero. But superhero powers have dimmed. This woman was so happy to hear Rumsfeld was leaving.
(on camera): You are getting teared up. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, I have step brother in Iraq right now. And he's going to be there, and I want to know that he's being cared for.
MOOS (voice-over): Rumsfeld himself seemed to get emotional talking about how privileged he felt to lead the troops.
RUMSFELD: Thank you.
MOOS: Presidential pat on the back. It was Rumsfeld who inspired one of President Bush's most famous quotes.
BUSH: I'm the decider and I decide what is best, and what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense.
MOOS: Well now the decider has decided differently.
RUMSFELD: There are things we do not know, we don't know.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Let's go back to CNN's election headquarters in New York. Lou Dobbs joining our colleague Paula Zahn. Guys, Jeanne Moos, she really can tell a story.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: I always wonder what it would be like to live inside her head. I've sat in her office for minutes at a stretch.
DOBBS: You've gotten much closer to both then, than I. You know, it's interesting to watch, he does whatever else you say about Donald Rumsfeld, Wolf, he's without question, something of a wordsmith. But the words that always resonate in my mind, are early on in this insurgency when he referred to those insurgents against whom we have been fighting now longer than World War II, referred to them as dead-enders, bitter-enders and thugs. And, I can't quite get by that. ZAHN: Well, I think everybody understands the consequences of words and people didn't think there was much of that sense of discipline that's very much a part of this man's core. One thing that I thought was very interesting today, I had the opportunity to talk with someone at the Pentagon about the timing of this, and interestingly enough, Wolf and Lou, they said that there was nothing in his morning schedule that betrayed that this announcement was coming.
That there were two very complicated meetings, one about Iraq, one about Afghanistan. And there wasn't a hint, even to staffers who have worked with him for large chunks of time, that this thing was going to come down.
DOBBS: Senator Cornyn, Wolf, made the point, when I asked him if he had any inkling of this, he said absolutely not. And he is of course one of those senators closest to the administration and to Rumsfeld. Pretty Rumsfeldian in point of fact, don't you think?
BLITZER: Yes, well, he's very supportive of the administration, very close to Rumsfeld. And I'm sure he's telling us the truth when he says he didn't have a clue. Very few people knew what was going on, and those of us in the news media were stunned because only last week in that interview the president gave to wire services, the Associated Press, the other wire service agencies, the president was outspoken not only for the Vice President Dick Cheney, but Rumsfeld as well, saying he's doing a fantastic job and suggesting that both of them were going to stay until his very last day in office, January 20th, 2009.
But even as he was saying that, the president acknowledged Paula today, he acknowledged that he knew something was going on, but on the eve of an election, he did not want to suggest that there was going to be a major change as far as the war in Iraq was concerned. And losing Rumsfeld or getting rid of Rumsfeld, whatever you want to call it, certainly represents a significant change.
ZAHN: All right gentlemen, we're going to move on a little bit, Lou. Do you mind hanging around?
DOBBS: Great to see you, Paula.
ZAHN: A little bit more?
DOBBS: Oh, not at all.
ZAHN: Can you give us 15, 16 more minutes?
DOBBS: Whatever you want, you've got it. Wolf, great being with you.
ZAHN: Thank you.
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