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Senator John McCain To Take First Official Step Toward Run For White House; Congress Takes Up Issue Of Timetables And Troop Levels In Iraq; Michael Steele Interview; Carl Levin Interview; Civilian/Military Tensions Have Been Growing Throughout Iraq War
Aired November 15, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, the Congress versus the general -- why is the top U.S. commander sticking to his guns over the future of U.S. troops?
I'll ask Democratic Senator Carl Levin. He's set to become the chairman of the powerful Senate Armed Services Committee.
And John McCain tests the waters. The maverick senator takes his first formal step toward a run for the White House in 2008.
And Democrats have blasted the Bush administration for failing to track down Osama bin Laden.
But do they have any better ideas right now?
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We begin with information that we've just learned within the past hour, that Senator John McCain of Arizona will take the first official step toward a run for the White House tomorrow, filing the necessary paperwork to form a presidential exploratory committee.
Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, broke the story for us.
She is joining us now with the specific details -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, McCain's exploratory committee also has a new Web site up now. They are gearing up for this, but, as you know, they have been gearing up for this almost since the last -- in the last couple of years.
Also, what's interesting is that John McCain tomorrow is going to give what's billed as two major speeches here in Washington. Interesting that right now in Washington, there is sort of a Republican void there. The president will be out of office in two years. Yes, there are new leader -- there is new leadership in the Senate side. But there are people looking for Republicans to walk into that void. And, of course, what they will be are some of the presidential candidates.
McCain now saying he'll launch his exploratory committee. That's just after Rudy Giuliani announced his. And as you know, we had Tommy Thompson almost right after McCain.
BLITZER: Tommy Thompson telling the Associated Press he's going to test the waters himself. He says he's going to file the exploratory committee paperwork early in the year, right after the holidays.
The field is getting thick already, Candy, and we just went through an election. On the Democratic side, Tom Vilsack, the governor of Iowa, said in recent days he's doing exactly the same thing.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. They're coming out of the woodwork, in part because they really have to. There are going to be so many people on both the Republican and the Democratic side that people have to put their stakes in the ground and say I'm looking for people, I'm looking for money. There is only so many staffers in New Hampshire and Iowa and South Carolina and now Nevada to go around.
So these 10 or so people on the Democratic side, about the same number on the Republican side, need to get out there and begin to try to find their place. They have to staff up and they have to get money. That's what these exploratory committees are all about. That and a little publicity.
BLITZER: And we'll have a lot more on this story, coming up.
Candy, thanks very much.
Candy Crowley, part of the best political team on television.
Let's move on.
It's the first debate on the Iraq War since the election upheaval and the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld.
Congress today took up the issue of timetables and troop levels in Iraq. Democrats will soon be calling the shots on Capitol Hill, but they heard a top U.S. general make it clear the military doesn't want anybody else calling the shots in Iraq.
Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, despite all the talk about a major course correction in Iraq, you didn't hear that from General John Abizaid.
In fact, he started off his testimony saying that his comments should not be implied -- be taken as an endorsement of a shift in direction. And he was good to his word.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE (voice-over): Two big ideas for a change of course in Iraq and a big thumbs down from the top U.S. commander for the Persian Gulf region, who wants no marching orders from Congress.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: At this stage in the campaign, we'll need flexibility to manage our force and to help manage the Iraq force. Force caps and specific timetables limit that flexibility.
MCINTYRE: Bad idea number one, argues General John Abizaid, is the phased withdrawal of U.S. troops within four to six months, advocated by some Democrats, like incoming Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: That is not precipitous. It is a responsible way to change the dynamic in Iraq, to stop the march down the path to full blown civil war on which the Iraqis are now embarked.
MCINTYRE: But Abizaid insists any withdrawal now would simply make things worse.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: What do you believe, General, would be the effect on the sectarian violence in Iraq?
ABIZAID: I believe it would increase.
MCINTYRE: Bad idea number two, says the General, adding more U.S. troops to restore stability in the short-term, as advocated by Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham.
ABIZAID: No, I do not believe that more American troops right now is the solution to the problem.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Do we need less American troops?
ABIZAID: I believe that the troop levels need to stay where they are. We need to put more American capacity into Iraqi units to make them more capable in their ability to confront the sectarian problem.
MCINTYRE: Abizaid advocates essentially putting the current strategy on steroids, adding more trainers and advisers, kicking the turnover to Iraqi forces into a higher gear.
It's a middle ground that infuriated Senator John McCain, who could not understand how more U.S. troops wouldn't help bring violence under control.
ABIZAID: And the reason is because we want the Iraqis to do more. It's easy for the Iraqis to rely upon us to do this work. I believe that more American forces prevent the Iraqis from doing more, from taking more responsibility for their own future.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE: General Abizaid testified that he remains optimistic that Iraq can be stabilized, even though the level of violence is, in his words, still dangerously high. He said there's a window of about four to six months to get things under control -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jamie, thanks for that.
Jamie is at the Pentagon.
And coming up, I'll speak live with Senator Carl Levin.
He's soon to become the chairman of the Armed Services Committee.
We'll talk about the testimony today, the overall situation in Iraq and the power shift on Capitol Hill.
As lawmakers here in Washington debate whether it's time for a timetable in Iraq, the death toll rises among U.S. troops and Iraqis alike.
Joining us now in Baghdad, our correspondent, Michael Ware -- Michael, we heard from General Abizaid before the Armed Services Committee suggesting the U.S. military can still stabilize the situation in Iraq and does not -- repeat -- does not need more U.S. troops on the ground right now.
How does that stack up to what you're seeing on the ground?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it sounds very much, Wolf, like a political answer. I mean it seems that General Abizaid, despite all the information that he has at his fingertips and his personal experience, is talking about a completely other dimension.
I mean, the violence here in Iraq, for ordinary Iraqis, is palpable. And for U.S. troops, six U.S. servicemen died on Tuesday alone. So far this month, 41 Americans have been killed here in Iraq.
It really doesn't feel like stabilization. And if General Abizaid can see a way to put this genie of sectarian violence, insurgent attacks and foreign interference, particularly by Iran, back in the bottle, then he clearly knows something that commanders and diplomats here on the ground are not sharing.
BLITZER: Michael, 24 hours ago we were talking about that brazen kidnapping of scores of Iraqis at that Ministry of Education complex in Baghdad.
What's the latest information? How many of those kidnapped remain captive?
WARE: Well, the figures still continue to vary radically, depending on whom you're talking to. But most recently we heard from the minister of higher education. And he said that from among his staff -- now, that does not include any civilians or visitors who happened to be hauled within the grab -- that among his staff, around 40 still remain unaccounted for. And it turns out that that the assurances overnight from the Minister of Interior that almost all the victims, all the kidnapped hostages had been released, are not entirely true.
So it just further deepens the mystery and further adds to the suspicion that points to, if not the Ministry of Interior itself, then certainly associated rogue or militant elements within the government security forces or the closely affiliated militias.
BLITZER: And those being the Shia militia, the Mahdi Militia of Muqtada al-Sadr, I assume, target suspect number one.
Michael, thanks very much for joining us.
WARE: Wolf, it's my pleasure.
BLITZER: And let's check in with Jack Cafferty once again in New York for "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, it took two years for them to admit they even exist. But the CIA has finally acknowledged two classified memos which may have helped the agency form its interrogation and detention practices for terror suspects.
One of those memos is signed by President Bush. The other came from the Justice Department. But at this point, you and I will never know what's in them. The CIA says the memos are too sensitive for any portion to be released to the public.
This all stems from a lawsuit that was brought by the ACLU two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. Lawyers for the ACLU say now that they know that the memos exist, they're going to push for the full public disclosure of their contents, but don't hold your breath. That could take a while.
The question is this -- what do you think is contained in the interrogation memos that the federal government doesn't want us to see?
E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: I think they have to release them in about 40 or 50 years under some vague historian law out there. But 40 or 50 years from now, Jack, you and I might not necessarily be able to read those memos.
CAFFERTY: No. Well, that's probably a safe bet.
BLITZER: Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
BLITZER: Up ahead, he lost his election, but he's still a rising star. Coming up, I'll ask the former Senate candidate, Maryland's Lieutenant Governor, Michael Steele, about why he thinks the Republicans lost control of Congress.
Also, my interview with the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Carl Levin.
What will he do in his powerful new role to change the course of the war in Iraq?
I'll ask him.
Plus, they've criticized the president for years. Now Democrats are starting to feel the pressure to find Osama bin Laden.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: He lost his bid for a Senate seat, but Maryland's Lieutenant Governor, Michael Steele, remains a winner to a lot of Republicans, indeed, to a lot of Americans.
He's joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
I can't say congratulations to you because you lost, but you've got to feel like you emerged as a winner...
LT. GOV. MICHAEL STEELE (R), FORMER MARYLAND SENATE CANDIDATE: Absolutely.
BLITZER: ... because you really did run a spectacular campaign in a very blue state like Maryland.
STEELE: It is a blue state, a tough climate and it was -- it was just poisonous throughout the year. But we had a conversation with Maryland. We got a significant number of African-Americans to come and support the effort, at 25 percent, the largest ever.
And so we were competitive. The final number is like seven points. And you consider some of the incumbents who lost on the Republican side by double digits in much more favorable climates and states than Maryland, I think we did pretty well.
BLITZER: Let's talk a little politics because -- I've got a bunch of issues I want to go through.
STEELE: Sure.
BLITZER: But the news that right now John McCain...
STEELE: Yes.
BLITZER: ... saying today tomorrow he'll file this exploratory committee paperwork.
What do you -- he is a good Republican...
STEELE: He's a good Republican. I think it's good. I think it's fresh and exciting. It gives the party something now to look forward to and to think about as the various camps begin to form. And, you know, after this loss last Tuesday, now folks are getting motivated to think to the future, which they should. I gave my staff about 24 hours. I said you've got 24 hours and then we've got to get ready for the next thing, whatever that is.
And I think with John McCain and Tommy Thompson and Rudy Giuliani now positioning and moving, I think it's good for the party.
BLITZER: Do you like any one more than the other of those three?
STEELE: No, not yet. I want to sit down and talk to all of them and get a sense of where their head is and how they see this country moving forward.
BLITZER: Because at some point they're going to come to you and ask for your support.
STEELE: Yes, absolutely. And I'll be prepared to give it to the one I think is going to be the best president of the United States.
BLITZER: Trent Lott, the comeback kid we're calling him...
STEELE: I know. I know.
BLITZER: ... in the Senate today. He's going to be the minority whip. Four years ago, he made some controversial comments, as you well remember, about Strom Thurmond.
STEELE: Yes.
BLITZER: And he had to step down as the majority leader.
What do you make of this?
STEELE: I think, you know, again, that episode behind him. I think he asked for forgiveness and received it from the party and from the country. And I think he's going to make a good leader in the Senate.
BLITZER: Do you forgive him?
STEELE: Absolutely. I mean, you know, you can't hold stuff like that against him. It was a birthday event, you know? The guy's sitting there in the chair.
What are you going to say?
You say nice things. You get caught up in the moment. Folks know where his heart is and I think he's going to be a good leader in the Senate.
BLITZER: Some people are floating your name right now as a leader in the Bush cabinet, perhaps, if there is an opening, or maybe some other job.
What are you looking at right now?
STEELE: Well, you know, I'm taking time to get reacquainted with my wife and the kids. You know, it's funny to see your picture on the refrigerator saying, "Anyone see this man, send him home," you know?
So we're taking some time right now, just sort of down time.
And then we'll have conversations with whoever wants to have a conversation.
BLITZER: Has anyone from the White House approached you yet?
STEELE: Not yet. I mean, they've got -- they've had a lot on their plate. The president is over in Vietnam and a lot of travel planned up for him.
I'm going to probably talk to them at some point and we'll see what lies ahead.
BLITZER: But you're open, once you give -- mid-January you end your tenure as Lieutenant Governor...
STEELE: Yes, yes.
BLITZER: ... and you're free and clear?
STEELE: A free agent.
BLITZER: Yes. You can go out and...
STEELE: I can go anywhere.
BLITZER: ... do whatever you want.
STEELE: That's right. That's right.
BLITZER: So you're ready to move on.
One of the things that some pundits suggested had you decided to run in Maryland against Ben Cardin not as a Republican, but as an Independent...
STEELE: Right. Right.
BLITZER: ... in other words, take the Joe Lieberman route...
STEELE: Right. Right.
BLITZER: ... were you ever thinking of doing that?
STEELE: No, because, you know, that would be -- I couldn't walk away from the values that drew me to the party in the first place. And, yes, the party was -- it was tough being a Republican in this cycle and I made comments to that effect earlier in the year and it was borne out on Tuesday a week ago.
But at the end of the day, I want to see this party succeed. I want to see a viable two party system in Maryland. I think it's healthy for the state. I think it's important for governance purposes.
And so I will continue to build that out and do the same nationally, because I think our party right now needs to pick itself up, look each other in the eye and say we're going that way and we want to take America with us.
BLITZER: There was some hanky panky in this campaign. There's always a little dirty tricks going on.
STEELE: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
BLITZER: That ballot that was distributed -- you saw that, right?
STEELE: I saw that after the fact.
BLITZER: We put it up there behind you.
STEELE: Right. Yes.
BLITZER: And it had a Democratic sample ballot. The "Washington Post" reported it. And it had you listed as U.S. Senator Michael Steele.
STEELE: Yes.
BLITZER: Did you have anything to do with this?
STEELE: No, we didn't. No, not at all. Not at all. In fact, I did not see that ballot until a couple of days after the fact. I heard about it during the Election Day but did not really see it until a couple of days later.
And, like you just said, those things are tactics that are done. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The Dems have engaged in such behavior in the past. And so we're -- you know, people were upset about it...
BLITZER: But you denounced this kind of tactic?
STEELE: Oh, yes. Yes, I mean at the end of the day, it's silly. And it doesn't really achieve the objectives that you want anyway, because people are smart enough to figure out, you know, who's on their -- who's on the Democratic ballot.
BLITZER: Is there anything, looking back -- because we're almost out of time -- you wish you would have done that you think could have made a difference?
STEELE: No. I don't have any regrets about this, man. I put it all out there. I ran hard. I looked America in the eye, I looked my state in the eye and said this is who I am, this is what I believe and I want to go to the United States Senate, trust me to get something done.
It's nice to hear everybody talking the Kumbaya language now. Now it's time for them to step up and get something done. And that's what people in this country want.
BLITZER: He's a star in the Republican Party.
Michael Steele, thanks for coming in.
STEELE: Thank you, sir.
Good to be with you.
BLITZER: He also happens to be my Lieutenant Governor...
STEELE: I sure am.
BLITZER: ... because I'm a resident of Maryland.
STEELE: That's right.
And I'll make sure your taxes stay low for you, at least another two months.
BLITZER: They're very high.
Thanks very much.
Just ahead here in the SITUATION ROOM, the soon-to-be chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Carl Levin. We'll speak with him.
Also, he's the country's most notorious lobbyist, or at least was. That would be Jack Abramoff. We'll show you why it's a very bad day for him and why the worst may yet to come.
And details of the hostile take over bid that could create the country's largest airline.
What does it mean for you?
Ali Velshi is standing by.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check in with Fredricka Whitfield for a closer look at some other important stories making news -- Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, Wolf.
Iraq's higher education minister has turned in his resignation. It's in protest over yesterday's mass abduction of dozens of people from a research institute in Baghdad. He says he cannot remain in his post if he cannot protect Iraq's educators. The Associated Press reports that about 70 of those kidnapped have now been released. It's not clear how many are still being held, however.
President Bush arrives in Singapore this hour from Russia. Earlier, he and First Lady Laura Bush were met by President Vladimir Putin at a quick stopover in Moscow. The Kremlin says the two leaders talked over lunch about Iran and North Korea's nuclear programs and the situation in the Middle East. They also discussed Russia's membership in the World Trade Organization.
The man at the center of one of Washington's biggest lobbying scandals is in prison. Jack Abramoff arrived at the minimum security federal prison camp in Cumberland, Maryland today to begin serving an almost six year sentence. It's for fraud in a Florida casino cruise ship deal. Abramoff still awaits sentencing on charges of conspiracy, mail fraud and tax evasion in connection with lobbying activities.
And in a California courtroom, former Hewlett-Packard Chair Patricia Dunn pleaded not guilty today to identity theft and fraud charges in the company's boardroom spying scandal. Hewlett-Packard's former ethics chief and three private investigators have also pleaded not guilty. They're accused of illegally spying on board members and journalists to find the source of leaks to the news media -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Fred.
And coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, is the clock ticking on a timetable for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq?
General John Abizaid warned lawmakers today against it. I'll ask the man set to become the next chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, what he thinks.
And looking for Osama bin Laden -- he's eluded capture for years. Why the pressure may now be on Democrats to help find him.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: You're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, two major political announcements within the past hour or so. Senator John McCain of Arizona and, according to the Associated Press, former Wisconsin Governor Tommy Thompson, both Republicans and both now saying they'll form presidential exploratory committees, the first official step toward a run for the White House in 2008.
Also, violent, even deadly weather, in the South this afternoon. At least one person is dead. Dozens of homes and buildings are damaged or destroyed by high winds and possible tornadoes, among them, a skating rink in Montgomery, Alabama. Some 30 pre-schoolers were inside the building. Fortunately, none suffered major injuries. And the last of the big Enron executives gets his sentence. Former Chief Accounting Officer Richard Causey ordered to serve five- and-a-half years in prison for his role in the collapse of the energy giant.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
On Capitol Hill, a showdown over Iraq, the first since the mid- term election changed the political landscape and since the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld as secretary of defense.
The head of the U.S. military's Central Command, General John Abizaid, testifying before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees today. He told lawmakers the 141,000 U.S. troops in Iraq are making progress. He said sectarian violence is down since the summer, although still, and I'm quoting now, "high and worrisome."
Asked about a possible timetable for withdrawal, he said, "that would limit commanders' flexibility" and he said "current troop levels are adequate," leading to this exchange with the Republican Senator, John McCain, who's calling for more troops.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: I respect you enormously. I appreciate your service. I regret deeply that you seem to think that the status quo and the rate of progress we're making is acceptable. I think most Americans do not.
ABIZAID: Well, Senator, I agree with you, the status quo is not acceptable. And I don't believe what I'm saying here today is the status quo. I am saying we must significantly increase our ability to help the Iraqi Army by putting more American troops, with Iraqi units, in military transition teams, to speed the amount of training that is done, to speed the amount of heavy weapons that gets there and to speed the ability of Iraqi troops to deploy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Democrats have long criticized the president's policies and the overall war on terror. And now that they'll be sharing power, they may have to start sharing their ideas for going after al Qaeda.
Let's bring in CNN's Brian Todd, he's looking into this story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf, for years, after years of accusing the White House of taking its eye off the ball in Afghanistan, the Democrats are starting to feel some of the pressure that goes with hunting the world's most wanted man.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): He's eluded capture through one U.S. presidential campaign and two midterm elections. During this last cycle, Democrats were all too eager to take political advantage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's Osama bin Laden?
TODD: Now that they're about to assume power in Congress, the question turns right around. What's the Democrats' plan to get Osama bin Laden?
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES CMTE.: I would want to talk to our commanders about whether or not additional forces including special ops forces would be helpful.
TODD: The incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee hits on a key Democratic talking point during the campaign, a call for doubling the size of U.S. Special Forces. Would that pin down bin Laden? Former CIA officer Gary Berntsen was at the battle of Tora Bora in 2001. His book "Jawbreaker" recounts how bin Laden narrowly escaped the grasp of U.S. and Afghan forces. Berntsen says special ops teams are only one component of a hunt like this.
SAM BERNTSEN, FORMER CIA OFFICER: It's about the intelligence collection, it's about identifying him. And once he's identified, the military operation can take place but we've got to find him first and that's not the job of Special Forces.
TODD: And if as many terrorism experts believe bin Laden is in Pakistan, the Pakistani government would not allow large numbers of U.S. Special Forces inside its borders. Another Democratic talking point, increase America's human intelligence capabilities. When I asked aides to key Democratic leaders for more specifics on that, they said they couldn't provide them yet. So I asked CNN National Security Adviser John McLaughlin, a former deputy CIA director.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We should be doing more of what the intelligence community is now doing, that is hiring increasing numbers of case officers, the people who do this work, looking for people who have languages and ethnic backgrounds that allow them to blend in overseas in difficult environments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: McLaughlin says it's too simple to say the U.S. needs more Special Forces and better human intelligence. To find someone like bin Laden he says a lot of things have to come into alignment. The skill of your case officers, the access of your sources, and frankly he says, some luck, that one tip that can lead to a big capture -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian, thanks, good report.
Still to come, he's about to assume a major oversight role of the war in Iraq. What does he plan to do? My interview with the incoming Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, that's coming up.
Plus, Iran, complaining to the United Nations about bombing threats from a regional neighbor. We're going to have details. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The country soon could have one less major airline and a new largest carrier. U.S. Airways is making a hostile takeover bid for bankrupt Delta Air Lines. Ali Velshi is joining us from New York with details. This could be a huge, huge bombshell, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Unbelievable. U.S. Airways is the merger of U.S. Air and America West. Only really in the last year have those two come together. And they're developing into quite a force. Now that airline is the seventh largest airline in the country. Delta is the third largest airline, even though it's been in bankruptcy protection for over a year right now.
U.S. Airways has proposed taking over Delta for $8 billion. Not yet hostile, but Delta hasn't actually said no yet, they've just sort of said that they're planning to emerge from bankruptcy in 2007 as an independent airline. Now, it is not easy to combine an airline in this country Wolf. Even if both airlines wanted to get together, the fact is the feds would be involved to say is this anti-competitive?
Look at the hubs of these two airlines. When U.S. Air and America West got together, they had Las Vegas, Phoenix, Charlotte and Philadelphia. Add to that Delta, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, Cincinnati and New York and you know, we're not likely to see an airline with eight hubs but it would be the largest airline in the country, Wolf. We'll see what happens. It's a long way to go if this thing does actually play out.
BLITZER: And potentially lots of ramifications for all those travelers out there. Ali, thanks very much. We're stay on top of this story together with you.
Let's check back with Fredricka Whitfield for another look at some other important stories making news. Fred?
WHITFIELD: Hello again Wolf. Iran is complaining to the UN about Israel. In a letter to UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, the Iranian ambassador to the UN says Israel had repeatedly threatened to bomb Iran. He wants the UN Security Council to demand Israel stop threatening the use of force. This comes amidst concern about Iran's nuclear activity. Last year Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threatened to, quote, wipe Israel off the map.
And Secretary General Kofi Annan is at the annual global conference on climate change in Nairobi, Kenya. He's urging world leaders to give climate change the same priority as they do to wars and curbing the spread of weapons of mass destruction. He is also calling on the U.S. to cut emissions of greenhouse gases but a U.S. government official says the U.S. has been leading in its initiatives.
And children in major U.S. cities do worse than other students around the country on science tests, that's according to a new government survey. Fourth graders in nine of 10 city districts surveyed have lower average scores than public school students nationally. The only exception was Austin, Texas, where they performed at the national average. The science scores are from the 2005 national assessment of educational progress, a test given nationwide periodically on a range of subjects -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Fred, thank you for that.
And coming up, Senator Carl Levin standing by to join us live right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. What will he do in his powerful new role as the new incoming chairman of the Armed Services Committee? Will there be a change of course in the war in Iraq. I'll ask him.
And Hollywood may have George Clooney as its sexiest man alive. But Washington's no slouch either. Our Jeanne Moos finds some contenders in the political arena. That's coming up in our 7:00 p.m. eastern hour. You'll want to see that, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now to take control of Congress, Democrats are flexing their muscles. But when the subject turned to Iraq today, a top military commander pushed back rejecting a call for a phased reduction of forces starting within four to six months. Joining us now from Capitol Hill, Democratic Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, he's soon to become the chairman of the Armed Services Committee.
Senator, thanks for coming in.
LEVIN.: Good to be with you Wolf.
BLITZER: You're on record suggesting over the next four to six months to begin a phased pullout, a reduction, redeployment, whatever it's called from Iraq. General Abizaid didn't necessarily like that, listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABIZAID: We'll need flexibility to manage our force and to help manage the Iraqi force. Force caps and specific timetables limit that flexibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Were you disappointed that he was sort of slapping down that idea?
LEVIN: No, I want surprised, frankly. I was surprise by some of the other things that General Abizaid said, but not by that. He was actually kind mild in terms of that. The proposal is that we tell the Iraqis that we're going to begin to reduce forces in four to six months. Not that we reduce during this first four-month period. In other words, there would be time for planning. It would not be precipitous.
But what General Abizaid basically said, which did surprise me, is that he thinks that things are getting somewhat better in Iraq. And according to the two leaders of our intelligence community, the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, who testified this afternoon, things are getting worse in Iraq.
BLITZER: Well why is there that disconnect between the military commander of the entire Middle East region and the leaders in the intelligence community?
LEVIN: I just don't know but they were clearly much more reflective of what seems to be happening on the ground, which is the increase in sectarian violence. Why it is that there was that disconnect, I don't know that it's a major disconnect but nonetheless, it is a disconnect.
BLITZER: I was listening Senator Levin very closely to what General Abizaid was saying and he was very precise, as you know, he's a precise military officer. And what he was saying was that from the height of the sectarian violence during Ramadan a few weeks back, it's gone down a little bit but he still acknowledges it's awful right now.
LEVIN: He acknowledges it's still bad but the difference between him and the CIA and the DIA general is that the two intelligence heads said that it has been getting worse over the last months, even though there is a slight improvement in the last couple of weeks that in general, and I was very specific with them, in general, that it is still getting worse and that is their current assessment.
BLITZER: Did you ask them -- I managed to listen to most of the hearing -- about that chaos chart that the central command put out a few weeks ago, it was in "The New York Times", peace on one hand, chaos on the other. And that they were increasingly moving the situation toward chaos?
LEVIN: No I did not ask it, somebody else however, I think Senator Kennedy asked General Abizaid as I remember about that and I don't remember his answer. But that chart is a pretty dramatic chart, it is put out by that same central command which is headed by General Abizaid which says that things are getting worse, that there's a move towards chaos.
But there seem to be a very strong -- first of all, General Abizaid did say that all options are on the table, including the option that many of us have suggested, which is that the president tell the Iraqis that beginning in four to six months, there would be a phased reduction in our troops. He said that option is on the table, he specifically said that, as well as a possible troop increase.
BLITZER: He sort of did slap down Senator McCain and Senator Lindsay Graham who want a lot more troops to go in to try to deal with this situation. He suggested that the United States doesn't need a whole lot more troops?
LEVIN: He did.
BLITZER: So he was sort of even handed in slapping down all sides of that. He's a general that comes before the Armed Services Committee, and he speaks his mind.
LEVIN: Well that's exactly what we want him to do. It struck me a little bit like what, frankly, Vice President Cheney was saying which is full speed ahead on the present course. That's really what General Abizaid was saying. In fact, what he's saying is the only changes he would make would be to speed up the course, to train the Iraqis for instance much more quickly in terms of their own capability. That seems to me to be a status quo but just speed up the direction that we're heading.
The problem is, that that direction is not heading us in the correct way, it is not leading to success in Iraq. The American people spoke very, very dramatically about their opinion about staying the course. And equally important, it seems to me, we've got a lot of very good thinkers now who are saying we've got to look at ways of changing this course. We've got two or three assessments going on right now to do that.
BLITZER: He met with the prime minister of Iraq, Nouri al Maliki on Monday in Baghdad and he still expresses confidence that Nouri al Maliki can get the job done, although I have to tell you, a lot of experts I've been speaking to are increasingly gloomy that this prime minister will have the guts to deal with the death squads, the various Shiite militias out there that are causing so much of the problem.
LEVIN: I don't have anyone better to suggest but I think it's going to take maximum pressure on him to force him and the other Iraqi leaders to recognize that the decision of whether or not there's going to be an all-out civil war or not, or whether they have a nation, is going to be their decision. We cannot make that decision for them. We can only give them an opportunity. We can only help them if they go in that direction.
But I'll tell you, I'm more convinced than ever that we cannot make the decision that only the Iraqis can make. They have got to come together politically and that's what our intelligence people again told us this afternoon, there's only a political settlement in Iraq. Not a military settlement.
BLITZER: Senator Levin thanks very much for coming in. Congratulations on the win. And good luck as chairman of the Armed Services Committee.
LEVIN: Thanks so much, Wolf.
BLITZER: Appreciate it very much. And Lou Dobbs is getting ready for his program that begins right at the top of the hour. He's standing by to tell us what he's working on. Lou?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf thank you. Coming up at 6:00 p.m. eastern here on CNN, towns, cities, communities all across the country are taking action on their own to deal with the problems created by our illegal immigration crisis. Taking action because the federal government won't. Tonight, I'll be talking with the mayor of an embattled Texas city, we hope you'll join us for that.
And the United States ranking now seventh in the number of students in the world going to college. Where is our national strategy to help middle-class Americans provide a quality education to their children? That special report.
And the U.S. Navy continue to try to down play an incident between a Chinese submarine and the aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk. It comes at a time when the U.S. Navy and the Chinese are talking joint military exercises. We'll have that story, a great deal more at the top of the hour.
I'll also be talking with U.N. ambassador, embattled U.N. ambassador John Bolton. We hope you'll be with us for all of that and a great deal more at the top of the hour. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: We'll see you in 10 minutes, Lou, thanks very much. Let's check back with Jack Cafferty for "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Wolf, the CIA has acknowledged the existence of two classified memos which guided interrogation techniques used for terrorism suspects. But it said their contents will not be released. One of those memos is signed by President Bush. The question is what do you think is contained in the interrogation memos the government refuses to make public?
Mike in California, "The documents no doubt contain proof of war crimes. It's too bad we'll never be allowed to see them. It would be a novel idea for these tyrants to be held responsible for their actions."
Kristen, in Springfield, Oregon, "More evidence the Bush administration believes it can do anything it wants, including mistreatment and even torture of prisoners. I'm 75 years old and I regret having lived long enough to see what has happened to my country."
John in Ohio, "It will show how complicit the executive branch was in allowing enemy combatants and terrorists to be tortured, thus violating the Geneva Conventions. This would also add fuel to impeachment and increase the Democrats argument the Bush administration has continually lied to the American people."
Donald in Maryland, "What's in the memos? The proverbial smoking gun. Proof of war crimes perpetrated in violation of international and the U.S. rule of law."
Jim in New York, "Dear Jack, in answer to your question, the memos contains the truth, plain and simple. That's what they don't want us to know."
And Al in Kansas, "The memos say we don't torture, we obey the Geneva Conventions and we follow the rule of law. And pigs fly and Jack is not a cynic."
If you didn't see your email here you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read some more of these online, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right Jack, see you in an hour. Thanks very much.
Up next, U.S. presidents and the U.S. military, relations haven't always been easy. In fact, sometimes, there's been outright rebellion. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. The man leading the charge in Iraq, General John Abizaid, largely repeated themes set forth by President Bush. But what's happened historically when those in the military have disagreed openly with the civilian leadership they serve? Our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield is in New York with more. Jeff?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Wolf, as an active duty military man General Abizaid allowed no daylight today between his views and those of the White House. But civilian/military tensions have been growing throughout the Iraq war, just as they have in many past conflicts.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you sufficiently up on your bible to know who Judas was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I know who Judas was. He was a man I worked for and admired. But he disgraced the four stars on his uniform.
GREENFIELD (voice-over): Now, here's the ultimate example of military dissent, an attempted coup against the president of the United States. Fortunately, it's fiction. It's a scene from "Seven Days in May." But there are plenty of real life examples of military dissent, public and private. Back in the civil war, President Lincoln's top commander General George McClellan repeatedly refused the president's instruction to be more aggressive. Ultimately, Lincoln fired him and McClellan wound up running against the president in 1864.
But what about open dissent? The most remarkable and least remembered example happened in 1949 with the so-called revolt of the admirals. Active duty naval officers testified on Capitol Hill against the policies of President Truman and Defense Secretary Louis Johnson. They wanted a fleet of carriers. The civilian leadership wanted emphasis on long range bombers.
Two years later, during the Korean War came the most famous example of dissent, when General Douglas MacArthur defied President Truman by advocating a wider war, including an attack on China. Truman relieved MacArthur of his command. The general came home to a rapturous welcome before the Congress, then toured the country and even briefly tried to run for the presidency.
It was, of course, another, General Dwight Eisenhower, who won that prize. And in 1977, Major General John Sealove, chief of staff of U.S. forces in South Korea was relieved of his command for publicly criticizing President Jimmy Carter's decision to withdraw U.S. troops from the Korean peninsula.
During Vietnam the active duty military was silent publicly, but offered plenty of private criticism of President Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, for micromanaging the war. A generation later, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Hugh Shelton told his top officers to read a book that accused Vietnam era generals of not standing up to McNamara.
And what about Iraq? Retired Marine Lieutenant General Gregory Newbold, who helped plan the Iraq invasion later, wrote in "Time" magazine that he regretted that he did not openly challenge the whole idea of the invasion. Other retired brass wrote books, called openly for Rumsfeld's resignation. Some attacked the whole premise of the war.
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GREENFIELD: As a general rule, it's the political right that generally embraces the dissenting views of the military, while the political left holds high the banner of civilian control. In the case of Iraq, however, it's been liberals who most eagerly embraced the dissenting admirals and generals -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right Jeff. Thanks very much. Jeff Greenfield reporting for us.
The United States is about to get a taste of royalty. Queen Elizabeth II will travel to Virginia in May. Her first state visit to the United States in 16 years. So what's in store for the Queen's visit? Let's bring in Abbi Tatton, she's got details -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, Britain's Queen Elizabeth today announced this visit that's coming up in May of next year in her speech at the opening of parliament. This is the official ceremony marking the first day of the parliamentary session in the UK. This will be the fourth state visit to the U.S. by Queen Elizabeth and her husband Prince Philip. Last was in 1991 when she was received by President George Herbert Walker Bush.
Before that was 15 years earlier when her host was President Gerald Ford, you can see the pictures at the Ford Presidential Library Web site of them celebrating. This time, she's going to be visiting the Jamestown Settlement in Virginia, the 400th anniversary of that settlement. This marks her coming full circle. She was also at the 350th anniversary -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you for that. We'll welcome the Queen her majesty when she comes here.
Let's have a closer look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at the "Associated Press," pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow. We'll begin in Moscow, President Bush has a brief meeting with Vladimir Putin when Air Force One stops for a refueling on the way to Singapore.
In Fallujah, Iraq a U.S. Marine scans the retina of a resident. High tech ID systems are being used to improve security as marines train Iraqi security forces.
In L.A., people sleep on the sidewalk outside of a Best Buy store. They're in line hoping to get their hands on a PlayStation 3 when it's released Friday.
And in Danville, Kentucky, student Natasha Sargent learns how to milk a cow with an artificial utter at a school for the death. Today's hot shots, pictures often worth a thousand words.
We'll be back in one hour right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. We're here from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. eastern, back at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Let's go to Lou Dobbs in New York in the meantime -- Lou.
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