Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
President Bush Reacts to Beirut Assassination; Iran, Syria Offer to Tighten Borders; Imad Moustapha Interview; Comparisons of Bush 41 and Bush 43
Aired November 21, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Susan. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, it's 11 p.m. in Lebanon, where an already tense political situation is getting alarming. This after Lebanon's staunchly anti-Syrian industry minister is assassinated.
Now there are fresh fears the act could further destabilize the Lebanese government. Some are raising the possibility of Syrian involvement in this assassination. But Syria is strongly condemning the killing. Coming up I'll speak with Imad Moustapha, the Syrian ambassador to the United States.
And like father, like son? A new poll compares the current president to his father's presidency. We'll tell you who Americans favor. I'm John King. Wolf Blitzer is off. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now, there is concern about the impact a bold assassination will have on Lebanon's fragile government. Lebanese Industry Minister Pierre Gemayel was gunned down today by assassins near Beirut. The car Gemayel was riding in was riddled with bullets in a Christian neighborhood.
The industry minister was an outspoken critic of Syria and a member of one of Lebanon's prominent Christian political families. After the killing, some angry protesters took to the streets but Gemayel's father, himself a former Lebanese president, is calling for calm.
President Bush is calling meanwhile for a full investigation. Speaking in Hawaii, the president also called for the United Nations to act quickly with an international tribunal to prosecute suspected killers of the former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri.
CNN is covering this story from several angles. Our Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon. Ed Henry is traveling with President Bush. But we begin with CNN's Beirut bureau chief Brent Sadler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: The potential fallout from this latest high-profile political assassination is still being evaluated here in the Lebanese capital. The father of the slain minister has said he does not want to see confrontation or violence in the streets as the result of the death of his son, Pierre Gemayel, who was the industry minister, a key minister in the embattled government of Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora.
Gemayel was one of 16 ministers who agreed to send back to the United Nations Security Council a draft text setting up a U.N. international tribunal to try suspected killers of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri, a very controversial decision flying very much in the face of six ministers from Hezbollah and other allied Muslim Shiite parties, as well as one Christian close to the pro- Syrian president here, who walked out of cabinet several days ago hoping to topple the government. That did not happen.
Since then, Hezbollah, the armed militant group close to Syria and Iran, urged its followers to prepare for imminent street protests to topple the U.S.-backed Siniora government.
At the time that Saad Hariri, the leader of the parliamentary majority and son of slain prime minister Rafik Hariri, was holding a news conference at his well-fortified Beirut home, news was passed to him in the form of a note that one of his cabinet colleagues had been assassinated, 34-year-old Pierre Gemayel, killed at very close range in a very well-orchestrated ambush.
Two vehicles, say security sources, involved in ramming the vehicle of the MP. And a large number of shots fired, through, it seems, bulletproof glass and killing the minister very soon after the attack.
Now, what will happen in terms of that assassination as it plays out against the political meltdown inside Lebanese political circles remains to be seen. But certainly these are grave hours and days ahead for the government of Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora and the country at large that had already been fearing violence even before this political assassination.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And next hour in THE SITUATION ROOM, we'll get a live update from Brent Sadler. It will be midnight local time in Beirut. Again, Brent Sadler joining us at the top of the next hour with an update on this tragic assassination in Lebanon.
President Bush suggests this killing is part of an effort to undermine Lebanon's democracy. More now from CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry, who is traveling with the president.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, the president was in Honolulu today for an official briefing from the Pacific Command at Hickam Air Force Base. He addressed the troops there, thanked them for their sacrifice and also used the occasion to strongly condemn the assassination today of the Lebanese Cabinet Minister Pierre Gemayel, the prominent anti-Syrian Christian leader. The president demanded a full investigation and had some tough talk for both Iran and Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We support the Lebanese people desire to live in peace and we support their efforts to defend their democracy against attempts by Syria, Iran, and allies to foment instability and violence in that important country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: The president also urged the international community to rally behind the fledgling democracy in Lebanon, the Sinioran government. One way to do that, he said, would be for the U.N. Security Council to immediately set up a tribunal to probe the previous assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Hariri. The president made these comments as he wrapped up a weeklong jaunt to Asia for the APEC economic summit. He had a layover in Honolulu, now headed back to the White House where he will have Thanksgiving holidays at Camp David -- John.
KING: Ed Henry, traveling with the president speaking from Hawaii.
Now many Lebanese are reacting online to the assassination of Pierre Gemayel. Here with more on that, Internet reporter Abbi Tatton -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: John, these are the Lebanon- based blogs that this summer gave us a real window into the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. The diaries of those people fleeing the country and for those that stayed behind, journals chronicling the destruction of what people were seeing there on the ground.
Today amongst the tributes to Pierre Gemayel, posts of real shock and fear, a real sense of uncertainty and foreboding for what is next for Lebanon. A teacher in Beirut noting that tomorrow should be the day that the Lebanese are celebrating their independence. Instead they will be watching a funeral calling this another sad day on the road to destabilization.
Another saying simply hell has opened its gates in Lebanon. Elsewhere in some of these online snapshots, you're seeing photos passed around that appear to be showing anti-Syrian sentiment already in the streets and also a message that you're seeing many of these Lebanese blogs addressing the people in Lebanon, begging for calm and urging people to the control their emotions in the wake of this assassination. John?
KING: Abbi Tatton -- Abbi, thank you very much.
Meanwhile more broadly, how might what happens in Lebanon affect what's happening in Iraq? Joining me now, CNN senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well one thing we're seeing, John, is a diplomatic gamut by Iran trying to undercut U.S. influence in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): While the U.S. military is looking for an explanation for the rising violence in Iraq, it often points the finger directly at two of Iraq's neighbors.
GEN. GEORGE CASEY, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Both Iran and Syria continue to be decidedly unhelpful by providing support to the different extremist and terrorist groups operating inside of Iraq.
MCINTYRE: In testimony before the Senate last week, CIA director General Michael Hayden cited what he called the Iranian hand as a formidable obstacle to peace in Iraq.
GENERAL MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR: It appears to be growing and Iranian ambitions in Iraq seem to be expanding. With regard to Syria, it's sometimes hard to judge the distinction between incompetence and malevolence with regard to what goes on in Syria that may affect the situation in Iraq.
MCINTYRE: So why are Iran and Syria apparently now offering to take steps such as tightening their borders or cracking down on al Qaeda terrorists? Analysts say it's a simple power play aimed at diminishing U.S. influence and making Iran, in particular, look like the regional super power.
VALI NASR, AUTHOR: But the whole point of this exercise is for Iran and Syria to show that they do not need U.S.'s approval for approaching the Iraqi government or for having their own peace plan and stability plan for Iraq.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. recognizes Iraq needs good relations with its neighbors and says the proof will be if both countries stop funding terrorists and fomenting anti-U.S. and Iraqi violence.
NICHOLAS BURNS, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: The challenge really is to the leadership in Tehran and Damascus to demonstrate that they have good faith here. It's not just to remark about meetings. It's to see some substantive policy change on the ground. That's what everyone is looking for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now it remains to be seen exactly how much influence Iran can exert over the factions that it supports inside Iraq and whether Syria is actually able or willing to stop the flow of foreign fighters across its border and perhaps, John, the bigger question is what will Iran and Syria want in return from Iraq -- John.
KING: And Jamie, I wonder if on the big question of should the United States sit down and talk with Iran and Syria as many outside have suggested, do people inside the Pentagon, there is obviously no military solution to a problem like this -- do people inside the Pentagon wish the people across the river at Foggy Bottom might get involved more? MCINTYRE: Well you know, there's a real debate about how useful that would be and obviously it's something that we will be looking for to come out of the Baker/Hamilton Commission. The thinking is that the former secretary of state Jim Baker would favor engagement with both Syria and Iran, so I think we'll wait and see what kind of recommendation comes out there. But that might be one of the things that comes out of that commission.
KING: A decision to be made by the president in the end.
Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
Jamie, thank you very much.
And Carol Costello joins us now from New York with a closer look at other news developments today from Iraq -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a bit more information about Iraq, John.
U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan says the U.S. is, in his words, "trapped" in Iraq. He urges the U.S. to carefully consider the best time to pull out so that the security situation doesn't get worse. He made those comments today at a news conference in Geneva.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: On the question of regret, I still have to say this is a war in Iraq and that the debate and the discussions that took place in the council could not have helped us stop the war. I firmly believe the war could have been avoided and the inspector should have had a bit more time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Annan's term as U.N. Secretary General ends in January.
A joint military operation in Sadr City has resulted in the arrest of a cell leader who may know more about a missing U.S. soldier. Six additional cell members also under arrest today.
The Army Reserve specialist, though, we're talking about was abducted last month.
During today's operation Iraqi security forces and coalition aircraft came under small arms and rocket propelled grenade fire. At least five people were killed, including a mother and her eight month- old child.
A fourth teenager, a girl, has died following yesterday's school bus accident in Huntsville, Alabama. Fourteen students and the bus driver remain in the hospital today. At least three are in critical condition. The bus plunged 30 feet over a highway overpass yesterday. Investigators believe the accident happened after a small sedan driven by a fellow high school student veered into the bus's lane. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBBIE HERSMAN, NTSB SPOKESWOMAN: We do know that there was a posted 65 mile per hour speed limit on the main highway. And there was an advisory on the ramp for 45 miles per hour.
We're continuing to map the scene to diagram -- to complete a diagram of the location of the vehicles and the marks that we have on scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Police have interviewed the 17 year-old driver of that sedan. They have not decided whether he will be charged with anything. Of course, John, we'll keep you posted.
KING: Carol Costello in New York.
Carol, thank you very much.
Jack Cafferty is off today, but Jack and the "Cafferty File" will return on Monday.
Next here, much more on our top story. President Bush denounces the assassination of a top Lebanese politician and accuses Syria and Iran of stirring up trouble. Is Damascus involved? Syria's ambassador to the United States joins me live right here in the SITUATION ROOM.
Plus, he's one of America's senior statesman. I'll ask Henry Kissinger about the latest crisis in Lebanon and about his critical comments about the war in Iraq. The former Secretary of State joins me next hour.
And later this hour, Bush versus Bush. Who is the better president? Our Bill Schneider makes sense of our new poll numbers.
Stay right here.
You're in the SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: More now in our top story, the assassination of Lebanese Industry Minister Pierre Gemayel. Some are raising the possibility of Syrian involvement in this assassination.
Joining me is Imad Moustapha, the Syrian ambassador to the United States.
Mr. Ambassador, thank you for joining us so quickly on an important day like this.
Let me just ask you, yes or no, simply, is Syria involved in this political killing in any way, shape or form? IMAD MOUSTAPHA, SYRIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Categorically not. It is actually a series of assassinations that are causing more and more harm and damage to Syria, while the enemies of Syria are capitalizing on those crimes and trying to point fingers at Syria.
KING: You say, trying to point fingers at Syria.
I want you to listen to United States ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton. He says there's no evidence of Syrian involvement in this crime, but, in his view -- an we'll listen to Mr. Bolton -- says it's curious that when you have an assassination in Lebanon, it is more often than not somebody who is critical of your government.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: You can't say for certain, obviously, but it's an interesting coincidence that eight of the last political assassinations in Lebanon have all been conducted against anti-Syrian politicians. One can follow the logic there, I think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Pointing the finger directly at you.
MOUSTAPHA: Isn't it strange that whenever the situation would become slightly, slightly favorable towards engagement with Syria, every time this happens, immediately an assassination takes place, some anti-Syrian politician would be assassinated, and immediately the whole context will change again against involvement with Syria?
In the last two weeks, everybody in Washington, D.C. was advocating engagement with Syria on Iraq and on other issues. This...
KING: I want to...
MOUSTAPHA: ... this terrible crime happens, and look how it will affect the whole atmosphere.
KING: I want to come back to that, because it is a hugely significant point. But I also want to step in as devil's advocate and say, there are those not just in the United States government, but at the United Nations, who would say that your government was initially reluctant to cooperate, and some would even say still has not fully cooperated into the Hariri assassination.
So some would say there are grounds to be at least suspicious.
MOUSTAPHA: Well, let's at least -- let the arbiter be the investigator of what's going on. Sergei Baramus (ph) has praised Syrian corporation on the investigation of the assassination of Hariri in his latest report. It is in our own interest to reveal the truth about the series of murders and assassinations because they are harming Syria more than anybody else. Today, those who were behind the sinister plot of assassinating this minister in Lebanon really wanted to target Syria not the person of this assassinated...
KING: When President Bush says today there should be a full investigation and everyone involved or anyone asked to participate should fully cooperate and be transparent, do you have a point of agreement with the president of the United States? Will Syria do that?
MOUSTAPHA: Yes, but we need to point out how everybody in the administration was trying to capitalize today on this crime, on this assassination and trying to blame Syria, without even having any sort of evidence or clue about who did this crime.
This is not good, actually, because it is hiding the truth about who killed Pierre Gemayel and who killed everybody else. It is not constructive.
We advocate an investigation that would reveal the truth about this assassination and will exonerate Syria.
KING: You say "they," meaning those who have killed Mr. Gemayel. Do you have any evidence of who they are? You say it's someone who obviously is trying to stain Syria, smear Syria?
MOUSTAPHA: We have been hurt in the past by those baseless accusations. We're not going to accuse somebody else without having the evidence about those crimes.
However, if you look at every single assassination that took place in Lebanon in the past year and a half, every time, immediately, it was Syria who was hurt and damaged politically. And it was the foes and enemies of Syria who capitalized and benefited from this crime. It's a pattern that has been repeated in a very suspicious way. This is a deja vu for us.
KING: Let's talk about the bigger moment you just spoke of. This was a time Former Secretary of State Baker and his commission are trying to come up with new strategic options in Iraq. Mr. Baker has met with officials of your government. Many believe he will recommend to this president of the United States more high level engagement with Syria.
Give us your best assessment of the conversations with Secretary Baker and your take. You believe that this now will set that back, this assassination will create a climate where people say no?
MOUSTAPHA: Of course. Not only Mr. Baker was advocating this. Top senators from the Republican and Democratic sides of the Congress were advocating re-engagement with Syria. Prime Minister Tony Blair yesterday praised Syria's engagement on Iraq and what we were trying to do there. And suddenly this ugly crime takes place today in Lebanon and the U.S. administration would feel that this would give them the opportunity to not to engage with Syria because it will provide them with a pretext not to engage. This proves to you that despite our sincere and serious efforts to try to help stabilize the situation in Iraq and support the political process there are very important, very influential political figures here in the United States who fiercely oppose such an engagement.
KING: As you know there are those two disagree. You say Syria is trying to be helpful in Iraq. There are those in the Bush Administration who profoundly disagree. I want you to listen to Nick Burns, number two at the State Department, speaking a little bit earlier today on the whole question of Syria's, what he considers to be, harmful meddling in Iraq. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICHOLAS BURNS, U.S. UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: Right now the Syrian government permits people, insurgent fighters, to cross its border to go into Iraq to kill American soldiers and to kill Iraqis. That ought to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: A top State Department official who, by the way, will join us in this program in the next hour, he says you're allowing people to go across the border to kill Iraqis and to kill American troops. Your government has just re-established diplomatic relations with Iraq. What will come of that in the short-term that the American people might be able to say would bring about an improved security climate.
MOUSTAPHA: Well, these accusations are totally untrue. What they want to tell the American public opinion is that it's not their failed policies in Iraq causing death and destruction in Iraq. It's not the invasion and occupation of Iraq. It's Syria who is responsible for what is happening there in Iraq. It's a true fact that within the past three years we tried time and again to tell the Pentagon and the state department that Syria is willing to do whatever it takes to cooperate with them on securing those borders in Iraq.
It was the United States who was categorically refusing any Syrian engagement. Had they had any doubts that Syria was allowing insurgents to go into Iraq, then they would of cooperated with us. We helped them before on al Qaeda. They cooperated with us before on al Qaeda and other issues.
What they are trying to say is it's not a purely Iraqi resistance to our presence in Iraq. Our occupation in Iraq is not creating those conditions that are causing the disaster, disastrous situation in Iraq. It is Syria who is responsible for this. They should stop blaming everybody else about what is happening in Iraq and start to accept the fact that they need to reconsider their policies in Iraq. They need to engage everybody, everybody without a single exception in trying to find a solution. What we really want is to stabilize the situation in Iraq and support the political process. Of course, they will say this is untrue, Syria is not doing this, Syria is not doing that. We are trying to bypass the American border in Iraq and talk directly to the Iraqis, telling them it is in your own national interest, as well as our own national interest, to work together towards a more stable Iraq.
KING: You obviously disagree with what the United States says about your government. Do you agree with the United States what it says is Iran, the United States says Iran is meddling in Iraq, that Iran is supporting the militias that are killing American troops and trying to destabilize the political environment. Is that true?
MOUSTAPHA: This is extra extraordinary and preposterous. What is happening in Iraq is happening because of the failed policies of United States in Iraq. You control Iraq. You have your troops in there. The American embassy in Baghdad has the upper hand on whatever goes in Iraq politically and yet it's everybody else blame but not accept accountability, being accountable for what is happening in Iraq.
Let me say it as clearly as possible -- the failed policies of the United States in Iraq are responsible for whatever is happening today in Iraq. Stop blaming everybody else. The only thing we want is to help Iraq emerge from the current situation it is in right now.
KING: I want to return to the question we began, which is the political situation now deeply troubled again within Lebanon. There's a question whether the Siniora government can survive this. There already was tension with the Hezbollah ministers and Hezbollah's role in the government. Will the current government in Lebanon survive this crisis and will Syria keep its hands off?
MOUSTAPHA: Well, Syria is not interfering in the Lebanese domestic issues. You have you to accept and understand that Hezbollah and the three national movement (INAUDIBLE) are part and parcel of the Lebanese political and social structure. They were only calling for expanding the government so that it will become a national unity government. This was a totally purely political debate in Lebanon.
This crime will create an atmosphere that can cause more and more violence and troubles across the Middle East. We are totally against such crimes. We believe that Lebanon deserves stability and Iraq deserves stability and we also deserve stability and we call on the United States to stop playing a role instigating the Lebanese against the Syrians, the Iraqis against the Syrians and to engage with us because we want to find a constructive, creative solution to the Middle East crisis.
KING: Imad Moustapha, the Syrian Ambassador to the United States. Sir, thank you for your time today here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
MOUSTAPHA: Thank you. KING: And again to our viewers we should note, Nick Burns from the State Department will join us next hour as well as the former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
Coming up, it was the main reason for the lame duck Congress, but are Congressional Republicans trying to literally pass the buck and punt crucial spending bills to the next Congress. We'll go live to Capitol Hill to find out.
Plus, Bush and Bush, father and son and presidents of the United States. But the similarities don't end there. We'll explain up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm John King in Washington. Congress comes back next month to finish up a lame duck session. One of the main tasks for lawmakers is to pass key spending bills to keep the government running but are Republicans now trying to pass the buck and push off the tough decisions to the next Congress, which of course the Democrats will control?
Let's go live to our Andrea Koppel for the answers on Capitol Hill -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, Republicans prefer to think of it as kind of a $400 billion dollar housewarming gift of sorts for the Democrats. Some would say it's a bobby prize. Either way you look at it, the reason that they're talking about this passing the buck as you call it, is that Republicans have been unable to pass a whole variety of spending bills.
We're talking about things like funding education, transportation, school luncheons, veterans benefits. Needless to say, Democrats are not happy about this. A spokesman for the incoming Majority Leader Harry Reid said, quote, "This is only the latest example of why the American people rejected this do-nothing Congress at the ballot box earlier this month.
Republicans couldn't do a budget. Republicans couldn't pass legislation to address the mounting problems faced by middle class families and now they have decided they can't or won't pass the bills that provide funding for health-care, education, transportation...etc, that benefit millions of Americans."
But Republicans claim one reason they've been unable to pass these spending bills is due to Democratic obstructionism. This could definitely complicate matters for Democrats, who have had this hugely ambitious agenda for their first 100 legislative hours that they're going to be in session.
A Democratic aide to Nancy Pelosi said, nevertheless, they still have their -- they're still somewhat optimistic they will be able to push that through. But you had one senior GOP leadership aide who said to CNN, Democrats complained that Republicans were do-nothing? Well, they're only going to have to look in the mirror -- John. KING: Ah, role reversal about to happen. Role reversal in Washington.
KOPPEL: Surprise, surprise.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Surprise, surprise.
Andrea Koppel for us on Capitol Hill -- Andrea, thank you very much.
It will be first time this President Bush has to deal with a Congress where both chambers are controlled by Democrats, something the president's father, though, had to deal with during his entire term in office.
But, as our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, is seeing, the comparisons between the 41st and the 43rd presidents don't stop there -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: John, it's Bush vs. Bush in our new poll. And we have a winner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Fourteen years ago, the American public fired the first President Bush. Now it looks like they want him back.
Asked which Bush was the better president, the father wins, hands down. The first President Bush was widely criticized for not going into Baghdad after the Persian Gulf War. A few years later, he explained.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FEBRUARY 15, 1998)
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We could have rolled into Baghdad in 48 hours. And, then, all hell would have been broken loose. And we would have been standing alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: The son did go into Baghdad. And, nearly four years later, the U.S. is still there, with no easy way out.
What brought the father down was, famously, the stupid economy. Having hit nearly 90 percent approval after the Gulf War victory, his public support dropped to 34 percent 18 months later, when he faced reelection. The economy trumped Iraq.
Now Iraq trumps the economy.
STEPHEN HESS, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, it's sort of like a game of paper covers rock. Well, the paper of Iraq is just covering the rock of a pretty good economy right now. Well, in 1991, '92, it was the other way around. SCHNEIDER: But Republicans like the current President Bush better than his father. The son has cultivated conservatives, who rose up in rebellion when his father raised taxes.
HESS: Bush 41 came out of the Reagan administration, but was, in substance, really the other end of the Republican Party. This Bush is very much a product of the West and of the Reagan sweep and feeling in the Republican Party.
UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE: USA! USA! USA! USA!
SCHNEIDER: Having matched his father's high rating after 9/11, the current President Bush dropped to 35 percent approval just before this month's election, about where his father was when the voters fired him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Well, the public may get its wish. The father's team , led by former Secretary of State James Baker, is coming out with a report soon that will try to rescue the son -- John.
KING: And, Bill, how much of this do you attribute to present- day anger? How much to kindness, if you will, that, once a president leaves office, the American people tend to look back a bit more kindly?
SCHNEIDER: There's some indication of kindness, because, within a few months of the first President Bush leaving office, his retrospective approval ratings started to rise.
But, clearly, Americans have forgotten a lot of the bad economic news that did him in, in 1992.
KING: And they're focused on some bad news in Iraq right now, when it comes to the current President Bush. Bill Schneider, thank you very much for that.
Bill Schneider and Andrea Koppel part, of course, of the best political team on television.
And, remember, for the latest political news at any time, check out the Political Ticker, CNN.com/ticker.
Up next: He's flying home this hour after a major trip to Asia. But just what did President Bush get out of his four-nation tour? I will ask James Carville and Bay Buchanan.
Plus: She suffered a major defeat just last week. But can incoming Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi get back on track? Find out in today's "Strategy Session."
Stay here. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: In today's "Strategy Session": comparing two wars, comparing two presidents, and what newly empowered Democrats will do in Congress, compared to Republicans.
Joining me are two CNN political analyst. James Carville is a Democratic strategist. Bay Buchanan is president of American Cause.
Let's begin with the president. He's on his way back to Washington this hour from this trip to Asia. He wanted help on North Korea. Didn't seem to get any. He was asked about troop levels in Iraq and what will the big strategy shift be at every stop.
A sign, Bay, that, after the midterm elections, and the defeat, and all the policy trouble in Iraq, that this president really has no place to go?
BAY BUCHANAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, there is one place to go. He has got to resolve this issue about Iraq. That's what the American people are expecting.
That's what was clear from Election Day. And this idea that the commander in chief is waiting for some kind of report from some commission is absurd, is utterly absurd. He is the commander in chief. He has access to all the information, and more, than anyone on that commission. He knows what the American people want. It's time for him to act like a leader, decide what the -- changes need to be made, and move ahead.
There is young people whose lives are in danger, while he is waiting for some ridiculous report.
KING: I want you to jump in. I'm assuming you don't disagree with a word of that. But...
(CROSSTALK)
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No. I'm...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: I want you -- before you talk -- before you talk, I want to...
CARVILLE: All right. All right.
KING: I want to share this number.
The president's main stop was the APEC summit, which was held in Vietnam this year, the Asian-Pacific Economic summit, held every year, this time in Vietnam.
This question asked in our poll: Has the war in Iraq turned into a situation like the Vietnam War? Fifty-eight percent say yes. Thirty-seven percent say no.
That can't make you happy, if you're the president of the United States.
CARVILLE: It can't make you happy, in the sense that, obviously, the Vietnam War had a lot more casualties, but the truth of the matter is, when we left Vietnam, our lives didn't change very much the week before compared to the week after.
I wish it was so easy in a sense in Iraq. I'm afraid that, while the human cost in Vietnam was -- was -- was much worse than it is in Iraq, I'm afraid that the diplomatic and the security consequences are much, much worse in Iraq.
BUCHANAN: Yes, over in the Middle East -- James is absolutely right. The Middle East is a great concern of ours, as to what's going to -- what the future of the Middle East is, much more important to us as Americans than the future of, for instance, Asia was.
KING: We ask a lot of questions in polls.
CARVILLE: Oh, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: And we spend a lot of money on them. Some of them are meaningful and helpful. Some of them, I'm not so sure.
I want you to be the jury on this one. Who was the better president? Former President Bush -- 61 picked former President Bush in our new poll. Current President Bush, 25 percent.
Is that a fair comparison to make?
CARVILLE: You know, it's a fun comparison to make, and it gives us something to talk about.
But I think it does -- it does say a lot, in what these neocons -- these have to be the most completely nutty people in the world. They were -- you know, they were saying he wimped out, and real men go to Baghdad...
BUCHANAN: Right.
CARVILLE: ... and real men invade Iraq and Syria, and who is next, and all this kind of foolishness.
You know, people who have never experienced the horrors of war is always the first ones to want to go fight them. I think that, when people look back and think of President Bush 41, that he -- he had long-term wisdom, which seems to be sorely in need now. At least the public feels that way.
BUCHANAN: Sure.
But, you know, this -- this poll is completely irrelevant -- because it's not -- it's apples and oranges. I mean, one is an elder statesman, as you pointed out. And, if you remember correctly, he did not win reelection, and so obviously was not popular when he was president.
And then you have the fellow here now, who is in the midst of this...
CARVILLE: The fellow?
BUCHANAN: ... crisis, you know?
CARVILLE: Is that what you all call him? You don't even know his name anymore, Bay?
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: The youngster, the youngster.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: He's got a very unpopular war on his hands.
But the bottom line is, it was a mean-spirited poll that should not have been authorized. You're putting family members against one another in a national poll. It's just outrageous. It's irrelevant and mean-spirited.
KING: Well, we have heard -- we have heard this president quite often -- I have, in the past, had a couple of conversations with him specifically to this point -- of the lessons he's learned from his father.
One of the lessons he took away was, don't go out and compromise on a big thing. Taxes was what his father did. He went off to Andrews Air Force Base with Newt Gingrich, and this big budget summit. And he agreed to raise taxes, after, infamously now, saying, "Read my lips, no new taxes."
Has the president learned that lesson too much? Is that what we're seeing in Iraq? He's waiting for a commission. As you say, he should lead.
Has he learned -- is he too hardened in that lesson, don't compromise?
BUCHANAN: Well, I -- you know, he was -- he is adamant that the war had a purpose, that in, ultimately -- we need to win, because that important -- that goal was extremely important to this country, and also to the region.
And that is to have democracy established in the Middle East. And, so, he still feels very strongly. He did up until a month ago, when the election came.
Well, now reality has set in. The American people don't agree that this is that important, that we need -- that the problem is too much of a mess. It doesn't look like there's success. I think what he has to do is say: Listen, I had a reason. I wanted to win. I still want to win, but I can only win to such an extent that I give them an opportunity, and then take some action.
But, right now, he looks as if he doesn't know what to do. That's where I think the lesson -- the president, his dad, always knew what he wanted to do.
CARVILLE: You know, this is a remarkable thing, when we think about the Constitution makes the president commander in chief, gives him real authority in foreign policy.
And no doubt that the president runs that. As a result of actions by Congressman Frank Wolf, a Republican of Virginia, got behind this commission, got it appointed, I don't think the president had much other choice. I think this is an extraordinary event in American history, where, in essence, they are almost ceding foreign policy decision-making to a commission, of all things.
If he wanted to have Jim Baker involved, he could have called Jim Baker and made him a special emissary to report to him.
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
CARVILLE: This is going to be a very difficult and potentially very humiliating turn of events for the president, because you are going to have four Republicans, four Democrats basically forcing something.
And then you start having the congressional Democrats and some of the Republicans go with it. And they are going to be in a box on foreign policy. They deserve to be there, but that is going to be what is going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: I want to turn our attention to the challenge facing your party, the Democratic Party, when it assumes power in January in the Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: As you know, your party can get a little unruly at times.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: You have been -- you have been through that.
I want to read for you a little bit. This is from a "Boston Globe" articled by Rick Klein, talking about the challenge of facing Nancy Pelosi, and her effort to try to convince the Democrats, especially out of the box. Let's not go off and deal with gays in the military. Let's not go off and deal with issues like same-sex marriage or gay rights.
She -- the Pelosi agenda for the first 100 days, according to this article, "It avoids hot-button issues, such as tax cuts, gay rights, and abortions, for popular issues, such as higher minimum wage, more affordable student loans, and congressional ethics reforms" -- quote -- "'These issues are bipartisan in nature,' Pelosi said. 'That's why recommended them.'"
We're hearing this from our correspondents. You see the story in "The Boston Globe" -- Pelosi trying to stay on a centrist track. Can she succeed?
CARVILLE: Sure. I think it's brilliant. I mean, it is common sense. It is everything in a row.
Way to go, girl. I mean, the minimum wage, reducing student loans, ethics reform, these were things that the last Congress could have easily done. They chose not to do these things. they left a gaping hole.
And I'm glad to see -- you know, sometimes, it is the simple things that define you. And I think this -- I could -- I think this strategy is absolutely brilliant. And I hope they get it done. And, if they do, the American people are going to respond.
BUCHANAN: It's...
KING: But, Bay, you know there are a lot of others in the Democratic caucus who have been waiting to get a gavel back who want to do other things.
BUCHANAN: Absolutely.
KING: Can Nancy Pelosi keep them there?
BUCHANAN: And they're going to be told that the big issues, those things that define us as a party, are going to put on the back- burner, because we want to be -- do apple pie and safe things.
CARVILLE: Minimum wage doesn't define the Democratic Party?
BUCHANAN: And too -- yes, but it's very popular. Republicans vote for it. Republicans vote for it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: They had six years to do it.
BUCHANAN: So, the bottom line, in two years, they are going to be going out there, and they're going to look like these good guys who did nothing really great, but a lot of small baby steps, and try to win and hold -- and maintain in strength...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I think ethics reform is a big...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Little is going to be accomplished by this crowd.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I think ethics is a big thing. I think it is a really big thing...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: They need to get rid of a couple of their own members, to start that...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: All right. We are going to call -- we are going to call a timeout for there. That was bipartisan until the end. I will consider that as reasonable progress.
CARVILLE: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: James Carville, Bay Buchanan, thank very much.
CARVILLE: Thank you, John.
KING: And James and Bay, of course, also part of the best political team on television.
Coming up: An already tense situation in Lebanon gets even worse, after a leading anti-Syrian politician is gunned down. But what will the United States do? I will talk to a top State Department official next hour.
But next: Hollywood loses a giant. That's just one of the stories we're following this hour. Carol Costello is standing by with more.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Carol Costello joins us now from New York with a closer look at other stories making news.
Hi, Carol.
COSTELLO: Right now in Saint George, Utah, for polygamist leader Warren Jeffs. They're trying to determine if there is a probable cause to send him to trial on charges of rape as an accomplice. Authorities say Jeffs forced a 14-year-old girl to marry her older cousin. Today, the girl's sister testified, saying the girl cried and was troubled in the weeks before that marriage was arranged.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations is calling for an investigation into why six Muslim scholars were removed from a U.S. Airways flight. It happened in Minneapolis, after they attended a Muslim religious conference there. The council says the airline then refused to place the men on any plane that day. U.S. Airways says it does not tolerate discrimination, and says it will continue to investigate. An emotional tribute to CBS newsman Ed Bradley -- friends gathered at Riverside Memorial Church here in New York City to remember the "60 Minutes" correspondent. Bradley was eulogized as a man who believed he was doing God's work as a journalist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will never forget what his solos were, the disarming smile, the disconcerting stare, the highly uncomfortable stretches of silence, the deceptively dangerous questions, and the questions that would be revealing, no matter what answer you gave.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Oh, Bradley was crafty that way. He died earlier this month of leukemia. And he was just 65 years old.
Hollywood is mourning the loss of movie director Robert Altman. His production company announced his death today -- Altman best known for the film "MASH," which was spun off into a hit TV series. Robert Altman also directed other numerous films, including "Nashville" and "McCabe & Mrs. Miller." Still no word about the cause of death. Director Robert Altman was 81 years old.
That is a look at what is happening now, John.
KING: Carol Costello -- Carol, thank you very much.
Up next here: Two weeks after Election Day, and the battle for the House continues. I will have the latest results in today's "Political Radar."
Plus: She was one of the most high-profile candidates in this year's midterm elections -- now a new job for Iraq War veteran Tammy Duckworth.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Two weeks after Election Day, and the results are still coming in.
In the House battle in New Mexico's 1st District, Democrat and State Attorney General Patricia Madrid today conceded. Madrid was defeated by Republican incumbent Congresswoman Heather Wilson, who won that race by only 875 votes. With just five House contests still undecided, the Democrats control 232 seats, and the Republicans 198 seats. That's a pickup of 29 seats for the Democrats.
She lost her bid for Congress, but Iraq war vet Tammy Duckworth has a new job. Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich today named Duckworth to direct the state's Department of Veterans Affairs. Duckworth, a Democrat, lost a nationally publicized and extremely close House race to Republican Peter Roskam, that to fill the seat of retiring Republican Congressman Henry Hyde.
The Iraq War vet lost both her legs in 2004, after a grenade struck the helicopter she was flying.
Senator Sam Brownback says he will make a final decision next month on whether he will run for president. The three-term Kansas Republican says the field has room for what he calls a full-scale Ronald Reagan conservative. Brownback also says the Democrats' strong gains in this month's midterm elections won't discourage him from running.
And, remember, for the latest political news at any time, check out the Political Ticker at CNN.com/ticker.
Next: There's a new list of vehicles rated top safety picks. Is your car one of them?
And, in our next hour, Henry Kissinger suggests a military victory in Iraq might not be possible. I will ask the former secretary of state about that in a one-on-one interview.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Here is a look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your newspaper tomorrow.
We begin in the Middle East. Two supporters of the assassinated Lebanese politician Pierre Gemayel grieve outside the emergency room where his body was taken.
In the Philippines: snakes on a plane -- almost. A passenger tried to smuggle over 100 snakes and other reptiles in plastic bottles on to a flight to Thailand. It didn't work.
Magician David Blaine hangs suspended in a gyroscope above Times Square in New York City. He will hang there for two days. It's part of a Salvation Army benefit.
And, in Galveston, Texas, an 11-day-old penguin steps on to a scale, weighing in at 433 grams. That's just under a pound.
And that's today's "Hot Shots," pictures often worth 1,000 words.
Thirteen vehicles have been named top safety picks for 2007 by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, but not one American-made vehicle made the list. Which cars made the cut?
Our Abbi Tatton has the details -- Abbi.
TATTON: John, 13 cars, minivans and SUVs made this list for the 2007 top safety picks, performing well in crash tests shown here -- shown here, if I could refresh it -- just from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, front-side and rear crash tests.
The full list is at CNN.com -- no small cars on the lists, no American-made cars either, but, included for the first time, seven SUVs, the institute saying the inclusion reflecting safety improvements made to SUVs, previously not considered the best safety choice, due to the high instance of rollover crashes.
This year, there were new requirements for the top safety winners. All of them had to be equipped with electronic stability control, shown here in this video from manufacturer Continental. This is when sensors kick in to detect the car is spinning out. Currently, about 40 percent of new vehicles have ESC. New government proposals are saying that all cars must be equipped with ESC by 2012 -- John.
KING: Thank you, Abbi.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
