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The Situation Room

Iraq Civilian Death Tolls Reach New Heights; President Bush To Meet Iraqi Prime Minister; Interview with Chris Shays

Aired November 22, 2006 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, HOST: You're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.

What's happing now: Does America need more Marines? The new commandant says the crops may be stretched too thin by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He has some solutions in mind.

We're with the U.S. Army in one of the most violent parts of Iraq know as the "Triangle of Death," troops say the whole area is one big booby trap, but they try to distinguish friend from foe.

And they were insulted by comedian Michael Richard's racist rant. Now they're taking action. I'll speak with the offended audience members and their attorney.

Wolf Blitzer's off today, I'm John King, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Is the U.S. Marine Corps stressed out from being stretched to the limit? It may be the case of too many tours in war zones and not enough troops. That's the message from the Marines new boss and that message comes as President Bush plans a strategy huddle with Iraq's leader and as the civilian death toll soars. We'll hear from CNN's Michael Ware in Baghdad and CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. But we'll begin this afternoon with a senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Marine General James Conway says it's pretty simple, there are just two options. The United States either needs a bigger Corps or a smaller war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): With some Marine units headed back for a fourth tour of duty in Iraq, the strain on the smallest U.S. military service is becoming too much. Just one week on the job, the Corps' top general is warning that the pace is making it impossible for Marines to balance military service with family life.

GEN. JAMES CONWAY, MARINE CORPS COMMANDANT: I think we may lose some of those folks. I think the families, the young Marines, the Sailors will say that's just more than I think, you know, I'm willing to bear. And it could have some negative consequences for us in that regard.

MCINTYRE: "Something's got give," General James Conway says, "either send fewer Marines to war or recruit more Marines and increase the size of the Corps." Currently there are roughly 180,000 Marines on active duty. And unlike ground troops in the Army, they serve seven month combat tours, not a year. They're supposed to get 14 months to recover. But the interval is more like 7 or 8 months basically because the unrelenting violence in Iraq has prevented planned U.S. troop withdrawals. The strain is not just a personal hardship, it's forcing the Marine Corps to forgo other critical missions as it concentrates slowly on counterinsurgency operations.

CONWAY: We're not providing to the nation some of the other things that we should be able to do and virtually any other nature of contingency -- we are not sending battalions like we use to for the non-warfare training, the jungle training, and we're not doing combined arms exercises that we used to do for the fire and maneuver types of activities that we have to be prepared to do.

MCINTYRE: Currently there are about 23,000 Marines in Iraq, all in al Anbar province, one of the most dangerous parts of the county. That includes 22,000 reinforcements just dispatched to the area to try to keep the insurgents in check.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Just on the job for a week, General Conway is not ready to make any bold or expensive recommendations to increase the size of the Marine Corps. For one thing, he wants to wait and see what new strategy might be in store for Iraq if it requires fewer Marines than he believes he can manage with the Marines he has -- John.

KING: But Jamie, if the decision were made to increase the size of the Corps, how long would it take and how much would it cost.

MCINTYRE: Well, you know, it'd take quite some time. The Marine Corps recruiters say they could probably add 1,000 or 2,000 additional Marines a year through recruitment and then that's very expensive. Manpower is the most expensive thing that the Pentagon can buy with this money, so it would cost billions of dollars.

KING: Jamie McIntyre at Pentagon. Jamie, thank you very much.

President Bush will meet with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki next week in Iraq's neighbor, Jordan. That word today from the White House. For more, let's turn to our White House to Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well John, this certainly is a significant development, at least in a symbolic way. You may recall that President Bush, when he first met with al Maliki, the surprise visit to Baghdad, he said he looked into his eyes, he saw a man co-work with and someone he could trust. Well, a lot has since happened. Of course, both of these leaders, their credibility questioned whether or not they'll be able to turn things around, both leaders meeting on neutral territory in Amman, Jordan, hosted by King Abdullah.

Now, the tow leaders are going to focus on four main things, namely how to increase the training of Iraqi security forces, how to facilitate reconciliation between warring Iraqi groups, cracking down on the militias and, of course, establishing how Iraq's neighbors can play a constructive role in actually the developing a successful future for that country.

Now John, as you know, it comes at a critical time, a time when the president is under increasing pressure to do something here at a time when three different reports, in the next two weeks, are due to come out that, of course, one of the bipartisan commission and internal investigation and one from the Pentagon -- John.

KING: Now Suzanne, wondering about the timing of this. Anything at all to do with the recent diplomatic overtures from two of Iraq's other neighbors, Syria and Iran.

MALVEAUX: Well, it's certainly interesting when you look at this because there are overtures being made -- power, influence, in terms of Iraq's future. You see Syria for the first time reaching out, re- establishing diplomatic ties with Iraq in more than a quarter century. This weekend, you've got Iran hosting Iraq's president there to talk about cooperation. The White House insists, look, they scheduled this meeting at least a week ahead of time, before these developments. But it is certainly clear there's a sense of urgency on discussions -- John.

KING: Suzanne Malveaux for us at the White House. Suzanne, thank you very much.

And as the insurgency rages in Iraq, civilian death tolls reach new heights. Can a summit make a difference?

Correspondent Michael Ware joins us from Baghdad.

Michael, President Bush announcing he will travel to Jordan to meet Prime Minister Maliki next week, even though the president has already said there would be no major policy changes until he gets the report of the Iraq Study Group led by former secretary of state, Jim baker. That is still several weeks away. So, why this meeting now? Is there something Mr. Maliki wants or Mr. Maliki needs from such a summit?

MICHAEL WARE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is just all pure guesswork at this stage, John. The Iraqi prime minister and his office are remaining tight lipped about the true forces behind this meeting. And certainly we heard very little from the White House in terms of the detail. Clearly, this comes at a time of American strategic uncertainty. Indeed with the Baker-Hamilton review not to come out until the end of the year, this period could it even be a period of crisis if it drags out that long.

So, certainly this is just a sign of how urgently people need things to change here. And I think these two leaders are getting together to try and spur things along. However, the sad fact is I don't think that either of the players, neither the Prime Minister Maliki, nor President Bush have a winning hand right now. So it is difficult to see just what they can hope to achieve.

KING: And Michael, the backdrop for this meeting, not only the policy review underway here in the United States, but this stunningly depressing new report from the United Nations saying the civilian death toll, more than 3,700 last month, a record-setting month. Any end in sight? And I assume this is mostly the result of the sectarian violence you speak of.

WARE: Absolutely. As the United Nations assistance mission in Iraq says, the 3,709 Iraqi civilians that are known of, who died in October, that's the worst death count of any month since the U.S. invasion back in 2003 -- is due to terrorism, violence from the insurgency, and sectarian violence. So, this very much paints a tragic, tragic picture. And when you put it back to back with the U.N.'s last report, before this one, we're talking about the deaths of more than 13,500 men, women, and children in four months alone.

KING: Michael Ware, for us in Baghdad. Michael, thank you very much.

WARE: Thank you, John.

Up ahead, they were the targets of a racially charged tirade by comedian Michael Richards of "Seinfeld" fame. Now they're talking out about the rant heard around the world and they'll join us live this hour.

Also his city is about to host a national tradition, he Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. I'll talk about that and more with the New York City mayor, Michael Bloomberg.

And it is one of the most dangerous regions in a violent country. CNN's Arwa Damon embedded with U.S. troops in Iraq's so-called "Triangle of Death," her report coming up. Stay right here. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Carol Costello joins us now with a closer look at other stories making news -- Carol.

Hi John. Hello to all of you. Big traffic problems in Los Angeles just as people start their trek for turkey. Southbound Route 405 shutdown just north of a Los Angeles Airport because of that overturned truck you saw. The truck was carrying hazardous chemicals when it overturned after a collision. Hazardous materials experts now on the scene. Northbound 405 open, but traffic moving slowly. That was earlier. People were actually turning around on the median, trying to get out of there.

Thankfully things are back to normal at northwest airlines, Minneapolis' hub, however, after a brief work stoppage on one of the busiest travel days of the year. Baggage handlers stop working around noon today and they were back on the job a half hour later. Union officials tell CNN the workers were protesting Northwest's hiring of non-union vendors to clean the aircraft. Northwest says its operations are now running smoothly and normally.

It may sound improbable, but a single Korean Olympic team featuring athletes from the north and the south could compete in the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Yeah, that's together. That's what an official at South Korea's Unification Ministry tells the "Associated Press." The official says North Korea wants to continue talks on putting together a single team and South Korea appears interested in keeping the dialogue open.

Britain says it could hand back Basra province to Iraqi control early next year. Britain's foreign secretary told Parliament there has been progress in the operation in Basra. And she said because of that, the transition could happen by next spring. Now, this is the first time Britain has put a date on a major step toward reducing its presence in Iraq.

That's a look at the headlines right now, John.

KING: Carol Costello Thank you, Carol.

And it's called the "Triangle of Death," an area just south of Baghdad in one of the most violent regions in Iraq. CNN's Arwa Damon is in Yusufiyah embedded with U.S. Amy troops patrolling that bloody combat zone.

ARWA DAMON, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: John, these are just about the grittiest conditions that this war has to offer. There are no bathrooms here, no showers, and no comfortable beds to sleep on. But the troops do make do with a little that they have. A fire to keep them warm, MacGyver playing on the computer and no one here is complaining.

These are the soldiers with the 10th Mountain Division. This is the Yusufiyah power station. The same power station where the two bodies of the kidnapped and murdered soldiers were found last Spring. These troops arrived here about a month ago and what they found was that the power station and the area around it was virtually one big bobby trap. So inane with roadside bombs that they cannot use the main roads to travel on. Just too deadly. Instead they stick to the fields and farmlands, taking cover in the reeds, in the orange groves, jumping across canals.

One of the main objectives here is to differentiate friend from foe. The soldiers say the biggest challenge is fighting an enemy that masquerades as a civilian. Out here, it really doesn't matter that the holiday season or not. Day in, day out, it is just about the mission. And it's about getting themselves and the soldiers standing next to them back alive -- John.

KING: Tough duty, our Arwa Damon in Iraq.

Coming up, U.S. military commanders struggling to turn around the war in Iraq. I'll talk about it with Republican Congressman Christopher Shays of Connecticut. He'll join us live. Plus, an embarrassing secret service snafu, the president's daughter having her purse stolen. We're learning new details. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

We're learning a few new details about a story we first reported about this time yesterday. President Bush's daughter, Barbara, having her purse stolen while traveling in Argentina. CNN justice correspondent, Kelli Arena joins us live with the latest -- Kelly.

KELLY ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, security experts say that it's a definite embarrassment for the Secret Service, but once you get past the headlines, they say that agents really didn't do anything wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

This is the San Telmo neighborhood in Buenos Aires where law enforcement sources say first daughter Barbara Bush had her purse snatched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I live here, and truthfully, it's very quiet. But I have heard that there are people who rod around here, however it is targeted to the tourists more than anyone.

ARENA: We can't tell you exactly where it happened, or even when, because no one in Argentina or in Washington is talking. Newspapers in Argentina have filed conflicting reports and police officials there say no official complaint was ever filed.

The White House as no comment neither does the Secret Service. A source familiar with the incident says some credit cards and cell phone were among the items stolen, but CNN has learned agents deleted the memory remotely as soon as they learned the phone was missing. CNN was also told Bush left her purse on a chair and that she was never out of her security detail's line of sight.

Security experts say that agents are there to protect people, not their stuff. What's more, CNN has learned the president has told the Secret Service to give his daughter as much freedom and space as possible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: There was no word on how Papa Bush reacted to this latest news, but I, for one, John, would not want to be the agent who had to deliver it to him.

KING: Tough, though, though indeed. Kelli Arena for us on a very sensitive story.

Kelli, thank you very much.

And coming up here, they were offended and outraged by a comedian's racist rant. Now they're doing something about it. I'll speak with the audience members from that Los Angeles comedy club.

And he'll soon be the last Republican congressman left from New England. Did a change of par on the Iraq war help save his job? I'll speak with Congressman Christopher Shays of Connecticut.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: As the Bush administration reviews its strategy in Iraq, military commanders are looking at their options on the ground. Joining us to talk about this, Congressman Christopher Shays of Connecticut.

Back on Election Day, the only Republican who won a House seat representing New England. And his Subcommittee on Government Reform, will hold several hearings on Iraq this year.

Congressman, thanks for joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM. If I'm right, 14 trips to Iraq so far, about to make the 15th. Is that number right?

REP CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: That's correct.

KING: You know the president is waiting for the Baker-Hamilton Commission, there's also this internal review at the Pentagon being lead by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And yet even though the president says he needs to wait a while before he knows what should be done next in terms of the strategy, he's going to see the prime minister of Iraq in Jordan next week. Let's start there. What does the president need from the prime minister of Iraq right now?

SHAYS: Well, just honest talk, they both need to be candid with each other. Maliki -- Prime Minister Maliki has not done the heavy lifting we need him to do in order for there to be success. We need to see some deadlines set and some deadlines met.

KING: The Democrats takes control of Congress in January. And as you know, the Democrats say there should be some sort of timetable for starting to bring home U.S. troops. You, yourself, had a change of heart in the campaign based on your assessments of the deteriorating situation in Iraq that a timetable might be helpful if done right. I want you to listen to General John Abizaid who told Congress recently "No thanks," he doesn't want Congress telling him what to do in Iraq. Let's listen to General Abizaid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We'll need flexibility to manage our force and to help manage the Iraqi force. Force caps and specific timetables limit that flexibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, to be fair to the general, he's waiting, of course, for the president to make the ultimate decisions about what happens. But you to suspect there will be tension here as the Democrats take charge and demand something more to their liking on the ground in Iraq?

SHAYS: Well, I think it will be healthy tension. I mean, on a bipartisan basis, we went into Iraq two-thirds of the House and three- quarters of the Senate. And I think the only way we leave Iraq successfully is on a bipartisan basis. And so timelines for things like transferring responsibility for the police work in Iraq to the Iraqis, our soldiers patrol the streets and it's like Russian roulette, I mean, which car has the bomb in it? We shouldn't have to be patrolling the streets now. They have 296,000 military folks, security people who could be doing that.

KING: Our Jamie McIntyre at a breakfast this morning with the new commandant of the Marine Corps, and General Conway saying that he even needs more Marines or he needs a reduced mission in Iraq, that the strains on the Marines are simply getting to a point where it's stretching the Corps to its limits. I assume you agree the situation in the Army and elsewhere are getting about to that that breaking point as well. What should happen in the short-term? Do you think there will be a timetable in place early next year to start bringing troops home over the next four to six months or is it time to increase the size of the military?

SHAYS: Well, we shouldn't increase the size of the military until we get signoff on the Iraqis to do the following, the need reconciliation. They need to decide where the oil goes. They need to decide is it going to be a strong central government or weak central government? They need to decide to slow down de-Baathification (ph), in fact, I think that's the one thing they have decided to do. They need to set provincial election. They need to sit down with each other and talk and sort out their differences. Shias and Sunnis are not that far apart. They think of themselves, believe it or not, as Iraqis first. They need to start acting like Iraqis.

KING: I want you to listen to something former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said on this program yesterday. One of the key issues, of course, is should the United States sit down with Syria and Iran to try to help bring about stability in Iraq. Listen to Dr. Kissinger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. HENRY KISSINGER, FMR SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm in favor of negotiating with the countries that are involved in the region. But, we should not elude ourselves, these countries to have no interest in helping us out of our difficulties. They have an interest in enhancing their own road...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: President Bush has consistently said "No, not at a high level," he will not sit down with Syria and Iran. Should he change his mind?

SHAYS: I think it is a mistake for him not to sit down with Syrians and the Iranians. They have a vested interest in not having us succeed. But they don't want Iraq to break up in parts, so they're conflicted and we need to appeal to their part where they need to recognize if they keep doing what they're doing and we fail, it'll be hell in the Middle East.

KING: I want to ask you, lastly, to reflect back on the campaign just finished. Many thought you would lose your race. I came up to visit you late in the campaign and you were optimistic you would win, most around you were not so optimistic, but you did squeak it out. You're now the last Republican in the House from New England. We increasingly see a Democratic Party stronger in the northeast, strong in the West Coast, a little bit more out in the mountain plains states and Southern Republican Party. Is that a bad thing? What is your political assessment of what this year taught us?

SHAYS: Well, you can't be a regional party and be a national party. And so to not be high representation in some parts of the country is outrageous. And there are solutions. They need to recognize that we need to appeal to a broader base of people, not to a narrow base.

KING: Christopher Shays of Connecticut, the lone Republican from New England in the House, but back in Congress after many thought he would not be. Thank you for joining us today, sir and congratulations on your victory.

SHAYS: Thank you.

KING: Thank you, sir.

And coming up, they're blowing up those giant balloons for the annual Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. Take a look. So far the winds are light, but hundreds of balloon handlers will hold tight to the ropes hoping to avert the kind of tragic accidents we've seen in the past. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is on the scene and he'll join us live here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And they were outraged when comedian Michael Richards went into a racist rant. I'll speak with a pair of comedy club patrons trying to do something about it now. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: The gap between rich and poor in the United States is growing, and you can see evidence in the way each is able to cope with disaster, specifically in this case, hurricanes. This year's season is almost over, but next year's could expose the divide more clearly than ever. Here's CNN's John Zarrella with our "Welcome to the Future" report.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, hurricane season officially ends November 30. After a whole bunch of pre-season hype, thankfully, it turned out to be a very quiet year. But people seemed more prepared than ever, from generators to hurricane shutters, from the basics to the extravagant.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over): What if the next time a hurricane was bearing down on you, you could just hop on a comfy charter jet just like this one and get you and your family out of Dodge in a hurry? That's exactly what the Russo family intends to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get that private jet. Where you want to go, Charlotte, Atlanta?

JACQUE RUSSO, BOCA RATON, FLORIDA: Atlanta.

ZARRELLA: The Russos didn't need to do it this hurricane season, but after watching what Katrina did in the Gulf and experiencing what Wilma put them through a year ago, they wanted no part of another hurricane.

RUSSO: Last year was -- you know, we sat in that back bedroom and watched stuff fly around, like the Wizard of Oz around here, and we just said, Enough.

ZARRELLA: The Russos signed up with a company called Helpjet (ph). It's not cheap. A membership costs the family of four $2,000 a year and only guarantees them seats out. If they actually use the service, it's another $1,500 apiece.

RUSSO: The bottom line is, to me, it was like an insurance policy.

ZARRELLA: Aida Florit can't afford that kind of peace of mind. For two years, she and her husband, Robert, lived in this FEMA mobile home park in Punta Gorda. They lost everything in Hurricane Charley. Aida worked three jobs to save enough money to buy a new place of their own.

AIDA FLORIT, PUNTA GORDA, FLORIDA: I worked for the telephone company. I worked for the courthouse, cleaning the offices at night, five days a week. And I work cleaning three houses on Saturday.

ZARRELLA: Throughout all the ordeal, Aida never stopped smiling.

(on camera): How do you do it?

FLORIT: I don't know. God helped me. God helped me. God is with me.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Now she has something to really smile about, a new home where the old one once stood, a new mobile home built to much stronger standards than the old one.

(on camera): Got the window with the alligators.

FLORIT: The alligator!

(LAUGHTER)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Next year, if a hurricane threatens, the Florits and the Russos will have responded in very different ways, but they'll have something in common. They believe they'll be ready, and both say they'll have peace of mind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Forecasters say the El Nino that kicked in and suppressed this year's hurricane activity may be gone by next year, which means, of course, our break from hurricane headaches may be over -- John.

KING: John Zarrella for us on a sunny day in Florida. Thank you, John.

Up ahead: They heckled comedian Michael Richards and got more than they bargained for when he hurled back racial slurs. They were the targets of that infamous tirade, and now they're speaking out. And they'll join us live right here in just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There are new developments and fresh fall-out from that racially charged tirade at an LA comedy club by Michael Richards of "Seinfeld" fame. The actor and comedian is reaching out and offering apologies, some of which aren't being accepted as genuine. In just a few minutes, we'll hear from two men who were the targets of Richards's rants. But first let's go to CNN's Carol Costello, live in New York with the latest -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, Michael Richards reached out to Al Sharpton, and while he didn't get a total smackdown, the apology was not exactly graciously accepted.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Let the apology tour begin.

MICHAEL RICHARDS, COMEDIAN: I'm really busted up over this.

COSTELLO: But it won't be as easy as an I'm sorry. Richards tried that again today, calling the Reverend Al Sharpton, apologizing and offering to begin a healing process. Sharpton didn't seem in a forgiving mood, though, refusing to accept the comedian's apology.

REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: I give him credit for calling. But I would be less than an activist to just say, Oh, I can forgive you, all is forgiven, or just, Let's talk. No, this must begin a long process. And he has the capacity, if he's serious, to help bring a lot of people to terms with what they need to deal with, which is a good thing. If he's playing, he can do more damage than he's already done.

COSTELLO: After that, Sharpton agreed to meet Richards in Harlem or South Central LA, predominantly black neighborhoods, to begin that healing process.

Abraham Foxman is national director of the Anti-Defamation League. ABRAHAM FOX, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Richards can -- can -- be repaired, can learn to understand. Now, there are certain things that we can't help, and that's anger management. That's another department, as is -- as is alcoholism, is another department. But yes, it's much easier to convince people -- to lead people down a road to detox themselves of hatred.

COSTELLO: Many would say Richards deserves more trashing than understanding because his racist rant was so extreme. He used the "N" word seven times in two minutes and ten seconds. It made us wonder if Richards had gone too far to be forgiven.

FOXMAN: Sure, there are some people who will never forgive and always see him as a bigot, never go to any performances. They're entitled. But he -- there's a next step. The first step is recognition that you are a bigot or you have bigotry. Second is to apologize. Third is to begin to deal with it.

COSTELLO: Cynics might say Richards is more concerned about his finances than about forgiveness. After all, Jerry Seinfeld appeared on Letterman Monday to plug the DVD holiday release of the seventh season of "Seinfeld." And while he was there, Letterman broadcast Richards's public apology. That is not lost on Sharpton, who is willing to listen, calling Richards's overtures to heal a step in the right direction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And something else to throw into the mix. According to employees at The Improv, another Los Angeles comedy club, Michael was known to go on anti-Jewish rants. But no one thought anything about it because they figured he was Jewish. We know his character on "Seinfeld" was Jewish. And as for Michael Richards, well, we're trying to figure that out. We just don't know yet, John, but we're working on it.

KING: The story continues to offer new plots and subplots. Carol Costello in New York. Carol, thank you very much.

And let's get more now on that racially charged tirade by Michael Richards at the LA comedy club. Kyle Doss and Frank McBride were among the targets of Richards's rant. They join us now live from New York, along with their attorney, Gloria Allred. Gloria is in Beaver Creek, Colorado.

I want to start with you, Kyle and Frank. First just help me set the scene. You walk into the comedy club while Michael Richards's act is under way. At what point did something you do disrupt him, or did he just launch up in your direction?

KYLE DOSS, LAUGH FACTORY AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, we walked into the comedy club in a very large group. There was maybe about 20 of us, a little more, a little less. So as we walked in, of course, we created some disturbance because we walked in in such a large group, but nothing purposefully, nothing out of the ordinary, just a large group walking in while someone's on stage, and that was about it. KING: I want to stop you there for one second so we can listen to Mr. Richards a little bit. I assume this is what happened when he felt he was being disrupted. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARDS: Shut up! (INAUDIBLE) fork up your ass!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Remarkably racist language there. I assume he's looking up at you two gentlemen and the rest of your party, is that correct?

DOSS: Correct. But there was a lot more before that. Someone caught that in the middle of things. He had said some things first, and then all of a sudden and someone -- then someone started filming what was caught on tape.

But as we walked -- here's what happened. As we walked in, we sat down and started ordering drinks. And as we ordered drinks, I guess we're being a little loud because there's 20 of us ordering drinks. And he said, Look at the stupid Mexicans and blacks being loud up there. That's the first thing he said. And then he kept on with his bit.

And then after a while, I told him, My friend doesn't think you're funny. And then when I told him that, that's when he flipped me off and said, "F" you "N" word. And that's how it all started.

KING: And so Frank, are you talking among yourselves at that point about what to do about this?

FRANK MCBRIDE, LAUGH FACTORY AUDIENCE MEMBER: At that point in time, when he made his first remark, a lot of us were in shock. We couldn't believe that he had made that racial statement like that, so a lot of us didn't know how to react. I looked to the rest of the people that were -- that came with us, that were in our group, and there was a lot of confused and shocked faces, a lot of emotions that ran just -- ran through us at that one moment.

KING: And Kyle was saying a moment ago that a lot happened before one member of the audience decided to open their cell phone there and start recording on their cell phone. Tell us a little bit about what you heard and what happened in there that we obviously can't see because it's not on tape.

DOSS: He even said comments like, I'm so rich that I can have you arrested. And I'm so -- when I wake up in the morning, I'm still going to be rich, but when you wake up in the morning, you're still going to be an "N" word. There was lots of stuff he said that was just totally uncalled for, totally shocking.

MCBRIDE: Nothing provoked to the point to where he should have made those statements.

KING: So you concede you might have been a little disruptive because your group was large, but nobody in the group said anything until he started shouting at you.

DOSS: Yes, correct. Yes, something like that nature, yes. Correct.

KING: OK. And then you make -- you have to make a decision to leave, along with other patrons of the club who have been deeply offended by this. I want to listen -- I want you to listen to a little bit of this, this sound from Mr. Richards, which he says as some of you were starting to leave the club. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARDS: Wait a minute. Where's he going?

(CROSSTALK)

RICHARDS: You're threatening me? Oh, it's a big threat! That's how you get back at the man!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was real uncalled for!

RICHARDS: Wait a minute. He's not going, is he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not funny! (INAUDIBLE)

RICHARDS: Oh, I guess you got me there. You're absolutely right. I'm just a wash-up. Going to stand on the stage (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It's hard to understand because, obviously, it's not the highest quality recording done on a phone like that, but there's obviously shouting back and forth between Mr. Richards and members of the audience. Is that exclusively to your group as you're leaving, or was the entire audience at this point outraged and in a debate with this man?

DOSS: It was -- his comments were exclusively towards us. As we were leaving, he even told me, That's what you get for interrupting a white man, and comments like that. He said so many comments, it was just unbelievable. It was ridiculous. And that was me yelling, saying that that was ridiculous and that was uncalled for, in the background. And so -- and the other members of my group were saying stuff also.

MCBRIDE: Comments that came from us were after that small piece of segment that you've seen. It was he had already said the "N" word over seven times.

DOSS: It was more than seven times. You (INAUDIBLE) catch the stuff in the beginning. It was a total of probably over 10 times.

KING: I'm sorry for interrupting. Excuse me. But I want to get your personal reaction. So he goes on the David Letterman show and he says he's sorry. Now he's trying to reach out to the Reverend Al Sharpton, who's a prominent Civil Rights leader, and say he's sorry. Has he tried to reach out to you to say, I'm sorry? And what do you think he should do at this moment?

DOSS: He has not reached out in a way I think he would be sincere. If he really wanted to reach out to me or any member of my group, just us in general, I'm not speaking of the other people he offended at the club. But he could have got ahold of me or ahold of one of us, and he didn't.

The only reason why he did apologize is because the tape got out. If this tape didn't get out -- because, like the Laugh Factory, they were recording that night. But they didn't release their tape because he didn't sign off on it. And if the tape didn't get out, there would be no apologies.

KING: And so Frank, do you think he's apologizing -- do you think he's apologizing, Frank, because he wants to save what's left of his career, if that's possible, or do you think that this is someone who, for whatever reason, went off the cliff, said something horrible and offensive and is genuinely sorry?

MCBRIDE: No, I don't feel that he's genuinely sorry. I feel like he had to say -- he was put up to say it. His friends and his colleagues probably got on the phone and said, Hey, you're going to have to do something about this, and he went on David Letterman. And in the bit on David Letterman, when he's apologizing, you can hear people laughing. So even to them, it didn't sound genuine.

DOSS: He even called us Afro-Americans. And when he said that, everybody started, like, giggling a little bit. It even looked like he had a little smirkish grin on his face, so it seemed like it was totally fake.

MCBRIDE: It's hard to believe that it was genuine.

KING: I want to bring Gloria Allred into the conversation. Gloria, if this goes forward, what do you think your clients deserve? Is there a legal issue here? Do they deserve reparations or payment from Mr. Richards? What is the -- let me ask quite simply, why do they need a lawyer? Obviously, something horrible, offensive and racist was said to them, but why do they need a lawyer?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Well, it's interesting. Mr. Richards has not yet sat down face to face and apologized to his victims, namely, my clients, Mr. Doss and Mr. McBride. And this is what he needs to do. We want Mr. Richards to take full responsibility and account -- and be accountable for his actions. So we issue a challenge to him today, and that challenge is to contact us. We will arrange a face-to-face meeting, where he can hear from our clients the pain they suffered as a result of the verbal missiles that he used to attack them.

And he can hear their pain. He can apologize to them face to face. We will have a retired judge there and the retired judge can make recommendations as to what would be a just result in all of this.

But let's understand this is not about free speech. This is about hate speech, and hate speech which carried with it for my clients the threat of intimidation or potential violence. And everyone in the state of California is protected under the law from that type of hate speech and they have the right to freedom from intimidation and the threat of potential violence.

So we hope to hear from Mr. Richards. We urge him not just to go around apologizing to everybody who wasn't a direct victim, but to contact us and be responsible and fully accountable.

KING: And Kyle and Frank, if he does not do that, or even if he does that, do you plan on a civil lawsuit against him?

DOSS: That's up to Mrs. Allred. I'm not to speak on that. I have no clue on that.

KING: But do you believe that you should be somehow financially compensated for this attack on you?

DOSS: I feel as if he should be punished for this, exactly. So whatever -- the best thing is for Mrs. Allred to get involved in that kind of issue. But yes, I do feel like he should be punished. I have a 4-year-old little cousin who asked me, What does that mean? What is he saying? I have my grandma calling me and having to explain to my little cousin. It's just you have no -- you don't have any idea how that feels, to try to explain to your little baby cousin on why somebody would say that and what that means and -- and it's just horrible. You have no idea.

KING: Frank, follow up on that point. What have the days after this -- obviously, it's getting international attention because of Mr. Richards's celebrity. In some ways, I'm going to make the argument that that's a good thing, that the world sees the heinous and awful things that he said, that came out of him not once, not twice, not seven times or more. Is there a downside to it, or is it -- forgive me for using the word good -- a good thing that this is exposed as it is?

MCBRIDE: (INAUDIBLE) a good thing that it's being exposed because there's no room for it anywhere in America for him to say those things and take us back into an oppressed time where he said that he can -- 50 years ago, he could have us hung and (INAUDIBLE) certain comments...

DOSS: He could get us arrested because he has money, and that's what we get for interrupting him because he's a white man. Things like that, it's just awful.

KING: Gloria, you're trying to get him to meet with your clients and to sit down with a retired judge in the room. You know the law very well. Do you have legal standing to go after him in a civil action, if that -- if he doesn't -- if he doesn't do this voluntarily, if he doesn't realize that this is in his best interest and maybe in his heart that he should do this, what are your legal -- what is your legal standing?

ALLRED: We do feel that we would have a strong case, that we could allege intentional infliction of emotional distress, that we could allege a violation of the Unruh (ph) Civil Rights Act, which does protect our clients from such racist statements and from intimidation and potential threats of violence. And we do feel that we have substantial legal legs to stand on.

But we're giving the opportunity to Mr. Richards through this challenge to avoid a lawsuit and to resolve this in a positive way, where he can sit down face to face with the victims and work to resolve it in a positive way. We'll look forward to his taking us up on this. Maybe he wanted to be a stand-up comic. We want him to be a stand-up guy, and we are looking forward to hearing from him to accept our challenge very soon.

KING: And we will keep in touch with you as that dialogue, hopefully, takes place and begins. Gloria Allred in Beaver Creek, Colorado, Kyle Doss and Frank McBride, thank you for joining us in New York City to share this experience. And we wish all of you a happy Thanksgiving. Thank you both, gentlemen, and thank you, Gloria.

ALLRED: You, too.

DOSS: Thank you.

MCBRIDE: Thank you.

KING: Take care. Thank you.

Coming up next here: Will the war in Iraq require more U.S. troops? Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, is the only network reporter traveling with the top U.S. Commander in charge of the war there in Iraq and in Afghanistan. She'll ask him in an exclusive report. Stay right here. You're in "The Situation Room."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: As the Bush administration reviews its strategy in Iraq, military commanders are looking at their options on the ground so they can make recommendations to the president. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, has exclusive access to the U.S. general responsible for the conflicts in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, we're in Afghanistan, but the issue again is Iraq. And the message is, everything is on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): As General John Abizaid, head of the Central Command, arrived in Kabul, Afghanistan, on an unannounced visit to discuss the security situation here, the war in Iraq remains front and center. CNN is the only network traveling with Abizaid. He paused to discuss the Bush administration's review of Iraq strategy, emphasizing that commanders are looking at all the options, including the possibility of boosting troop levels.

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Options for troops for training, options for more combat troops are all being looked at, as well as options for less troops. But I could see a series of options coming together where you might have a short-term increase for specific reasons. It would have to be tied to a specific broader plan.

STARR: Abizaid recently told Congress he didn't necessarily favor a troop increase or a timetable for troop withdrawal, leading some to suggest the military was not open to a change in Iraq strategy.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I regret deeply that you seem to think that the status quo and the rate of progress we're making is acceptable. I think most Americans do not.

ABIZAID: Well, Senator, I agree with you. The status quo is not acceptable.

I think everybody needs to understand that we're having a debate and a discussion and that all options are on the table.

STARR: Options being developed by Abizaid and other commanders will be reviewed by President Bush. Once decisions are made, then commanders will develop specific plans on how to implement those ideas. For example, assessments are under way on how much additional combat power might be needed in both al Anbar province and Baghdad, where attacks are heaviest.

Still, Abizaid made clear he believes a set timetable for withdrawal would limit the military's ability to respond to security conditions. He is leaning towards doubling the number of U.S. military trainers, although that in itself might not lead it a significant increase in troops on the ground.

As for the other political option, talking to Iran and Syria about halting their support for insurgents and sectarian violence?

ABIZAID: I can only tell you that we've had military difficulties resulting from indirect support from Iran and Syria to groups that are not helpful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: The U.S. remains deeply concerned that Iranian-backed militias now operating inside Iraq might be so strong that the new Iraqi government simply will not be able to control them -- John.

KING: Barbara Starr, traveling exclusively with the U.S. Central Command commander, General John Abizaid.

And Carol Costello joins us now with a closer look at other stories making news -- Hi, Carol.

COSTELLO: Hi, John. Hello to all of you. The Homeland Security Department will be enforcing a tougher passport policy beginning on January 23rd. Almost all air passengers entering or returning to the United States must present a valid passport. That includes U.S. citizens and travelers from Canada, Mexico and Bermuda, who have not needed one before. The Homeland Security Department says the requirement is being changed to strengthen border security.

Tough going in Virginia. A holiday storm complicating Thanksgiving day travel. There's heavy rain, high winds and flooding in some areas. The bad weather also affecting North Carolina's coast. The National Weather Service issued coastal flood warnings and flood watches for some parts. The storms expected to continue tomorrow.

And it is supposed to rain tomorrow here in New York City for the big Thanksgiving Day parade. You can see the parade's inflation team. They almost have Big Bird pumped up. They're pumping in a mixture of helium and air. The balloons will remain inflated overnight and they'll be covered by heavy netting, John, so they don't float away before the parade, which begins at nine tomorrow morning.

KING: Let's keep the fingers crossed that the weather improves a bit, the parade goes off with a hitch. Thank you Carol. We had hoped to see Mayor Bloomberg, but he could not join us this afternoon. We hope to have him here, he couldn't make it. That's it for now. THE SITUATION ROOM will be back in an hour. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" stars right now with Kitty Pilgrim in for Lou -- Kitty?

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