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The Situation Room
Violence Explodes in Iraq; Former Russian Spy Killed By Radiation; Ted Strickland Interview
Aired November 24, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now -- after a Thanksgiving Day massacre, fears of an all out civil war. It's midnight in Iraq where furious Shiites have torched Sunni mosques, denounced their leaders, even burned some Sunnis to death. This after a bloody attack in a Shiite neighborhood leaves hundreds of Shiites dead.
Followers of Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr say U.S. actions in Iraq are probably responsible for yesterday's attack. Now some of al- Sadr's followers who are part of Iraq's government are threatening to boycott that government if the Iraqi prime minister goes ahead with a meeting with President Bush.
And it's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington where Karl Rove's dreams of building a permanent Republican majority, but the recent Republicans setback means Rove's wish is unrealistic or is it simply a dream deferred? I'm John King. Wolf Blitzer is off today. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now, fears that Iraq could erupt into an all-out civil war. Shiites and Sunnis launch strikes and counter strikes against each other. Today some Shiites denounced Sunni and American leaders. And witnesses say Shiites torched Sunni mosques and burned some Sunnis to death.
This after bloody attacks against Shiites in Baghdad's Sadr City yesterday. A series of car bombs and mortar attacks killed over 200 people. It's the single worst day of sectarian violence in Iraq since the war began. Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr's condemns the strikes and some of his followers who hold parliament and cabinet posts, say the United States created the conditions that led to it.
Now they're threatening to boycott the government if Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki meets with President Bush. A meeting between the two leaders is set for Thursday in Jordan. And today the White House said it will go on as planned. Vice President Cheney will meet with King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia tomorrow. The situation in Iraq, of course, a key topic.
Meanwhile, a grim milestone. On Sunday, the Iraq war will have lasted the same number of days as the U.S. involvement in World War II. Let's get more on the latest bloodshed and political fallout from CNN's Arwa Damon in Baghdad.
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, a U.S. military spokesman confirming that American helicopters fired into Sadr City. Their target -- individuals who were firing rockets at U.S. and Iraqi military forces conducting an operation in that area. This, on the same day that residents of Sadr City were burying their dead, following yesterday's devastating attack.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAMON (voice-over): Like Iraq's immeasurable grief, the funeral procession seemed endless. Hundreds of mourners packed the street of Sadr City escorting over 200 coffins. Victims of the bloodiest attack since the war started in 2003. The dead were casualties of at least five car bombs that exploded on Thursday in the Shia slum of Sadr City.
A Mahdi militia stronghold loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al Sadr. Addressing crowds in Sadr City after Friday's prayers a deputy of al Sadr raised both the political and military stakes ahead of a scheduled meeting between the U.S. president and Iraqi prime minister.
SALIH AL-AKEILI, SADR SPOKESMAN (through translator): If the prime minister goes ahead and meets with the criminal Bush in Amman we will suspend our membership in the Iraqi government. All of the people know we have enough power to react and to respond, but for the sake of Iraqi unity and for the interests of the Iraqi people, we will follow our leaders.
DAMON: Now the prime minister finds himself in a precarious situation. Nouri al Maliki largely owes his job to the support of Sadr's block, but he cannot afford to alienate the United States. The political turmoil and violence comes at the end of a week with increasingly brazen attacks against government institutions and a surge in sectarian bloodshed.
On the streets of Baghdad, despite a government lockdown to curb retaliation, the violence continued. Pleas for help from Sunni residents broadcast on Sunni TV after a number of their mosques were attacked and reports of more people killed. One resident summed up the chaos. "At the end of the day, we are all losers," Hassan said. "This is our home, our country."
Most U.S. and Iraqi officials will not say Iraq is in a civil war. But many Iraqis look at the growing numbers of bodies filling morgues, the ethnic cleansing in neighborhoods, and the escalating violence and say the civil war started long ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DAMON: The Iraqi prime minister's next move, whether he bows to Muqtada al Sadr's request or goes ahead with his scheduled meeting with U.S. President Bush will highlight who the real power brokers here are -- John.
KING: And Arwa, you say, to the populous there's no doubt in their mind, the civil war began long ago. Is there any hope or does anyone there have any ideas of how to get out of it since the Administration and the Iraqi government obviously have not found that path as yet?
DAMON: John, there is pretty much every single school of thought here that exists amongst Iraqi people. When you ask them what they think the best solution would be, but, truth be told, for many of them, hope is waning and they don't even know how they are ever going to get out of the mess that is their lives right now.
If we just look at the events of the last 24 hours, we have gruesome reports of Sunni worshipers being torched, at least seven of them, according to an official with the deputy prime minister's office, torched by Shia militiamen. We have at least half a dozen Sunni mosques attacked here. Some of them burnt, others attacked by rocket propelled grenades.
We have countless tit for tat attacks. We have this death toll rising in Baghdad's morgue, at least a hundred to 150 unidentified bodies showing up there per day. Iraqis are really looking around seeing their entire lives, their country ripping apart, falling apart -- John.
KING: Arwa Damon for us on yet another depressingly deadly day in Baghdad. Arwa, thank you very much.
The White House is responding to this latest round of Iraq violence. In a statement deputy White House spokesman Scott Stansel writes: "We condemn such acts of violence that are clearly aimed at undermining the Iraqi people's hopes for a peaceful and stable Iraq. The United States is committed to helping the Iraqis and President Bush and Prime Minister Maliki will meet next week to discuss the security situation in Iraq."
Moving on now. The death of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko was apparently the result of radiation poisoning. The British government says a major dose of a radioactive element has been found in the ex-KGB agent's body. And British authorities say traces of radioactive material were found in places where he ate and he met other spies just before he got sick.
CNN's correspondent Jim Boulden reports from London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, in an extraordinary move, British health authorities have now confirmed what the family and the friends of the Russian spy had believed all along -- that he had been poisoned. Now we know it was radiation.
(voice-over): There had been a great deal of speculation over what substance transformed this former Russian spy from a healthy man to one who died painfully in a London hospital late Thursday. On Friday afternoon, the speculation ended. British health authorities confirmed Alexander Litvinenko suffered from a heavy dose of highly toxic radiation.
PAT TROOP, BRITISH HEALTH PROTECTION AGENCY: We're here because what we've had is an unprecedented offense in the UK that somebody has apparently deliberately been poisoned with a type of radiation.
BOULDEN: Then police confirmed the same radiation had been found at his London home, a local hotel, and a sushi restaurant in central London. After Litvinenko had met some Russians at the restaurant on November 1st, he fell ill. Friends and family of Litvinenko say they have no doubt he was a target of the Kremlin.
WALTER LITVINENKO, FATHER OF VICTIM (through translator): This regime is a mortal danger to the world. Sasha fought this regime. He understood it. And this regime got him.
BOULDEN: The Kremlin denies any involvement in the death of its former spy. Alexander Litvinenko was an agent for the Kremlin but turned away from the regime and defected to Britain. Had he made serious allegations against President Vladimir Putin.
ALEX GOLDFARB, FRIEND OF VICTIM: We know that the Russian regime has evolved into a kind of a authoritarian dictatorship by now, with no checks and balances, with no civil society, with no bounds or accountability to the Russian secret services.
BOULDEN: One former KGB agent who also fled to Britain, first assumed the Kremlin could not be involved.
OLEG GORDIEVSKY, FORMER KGB AGENT: I thought no. The Russian authorities, intelligent enough not to commit assassination attempt on foreign soil, particularly a big a country like Great Britain because it's suicidal.
BOULDEN: The British police have said little about its ongoing investigation into the matter. They have yet to call it murder.
(on camera): Now that radiation has been confirmed, this is no longer just a criminal matter for the British police. The British foreign office says they have contacted Moscow and they are taking this as a very serious matter. John, back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Jim Boulden in London, a remarkable story. The Russian president, Vladimir Putin denies he had anything to do with the ex- spy's death and he says he is sorry it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): I deplore this. And I would extend my condolences of the family of Mr. Litvinenko. Who, as far as I understand in the medical statement of British physicians, it doesn't say that this was a result of violence, this is not a violent death. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The Russian president calls the release of the ex-spy's death bed statement that blamed Putin a political provocation.
Carol Lin joins us from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news -- hi Carol.
Hi there, John. A standoff at the Miami-Herald is over and the gunman in custody. A former freelance cartoonist for the paper entered the building today and demanded to see one of the editors.
Police say Jose Varela appeared to be armed with a machine gun. A S.W.A.T. team surrounded the building and this afternoon Varela turned himself in afternoon peaceful negotiations. No one injured.
The paper's executive editor said he heard that Varela was upset about how the newspaper was being run.
And a dramatic scene in Northern Gaza. A 57-year-old Palestinian woman put on explosives and blew herself up today near Israeli soldiers. Three of the soldiers were slightly wounded. The woman was a member of the Hamas group's militant wing. Israeli forces had been operating in Northern Gaza in an ongoing effort to stop Palestinian militants from firing rockets into Israel.
And two land mine clearing experts are wounded after accidentally stepping on a cluster bomb in Southern Lebanon. The bomb was one of about a million that failed to explode during the Hezbollah/Israel War and continue to threaten civilians. The experts are members of an international team. They were rushed to a hospital after the bomb exploded. Their conditions, John, are described as serious.
KING: Carol Lin in Atlanta. Carol thank you very much. Tough story. Thank you, Carol.
Coming up, with the midterm elections a mandate for the Democrats or just a repudiation of the president and his party? Next, brand new poll numbers may tell us more about the message behind the vote.
Plus, did the election results destroy Karl Rove's dream or were they just a speed bump on his path to Republican domination?
And later, much more on our top story -- the horrific violence in Iraq and the impact back here at home. Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett weigh in, that's in today's "Strategy Session." Stay right there, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Two-and-a-half weeks after Republicans suffered major losses in the election, many are asking what message Americans were trying to send to their elected officials. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider is here with more on what was on the voters' mind -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: John, the midterm election looked like a mandate but for what, exactly?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Was the Democratic victory this month a mandate for Democratic policies or a rejection of Republican policies?
We asked the voters. By better than 2-1, Americans considered the election a rejection of Republican policies.
Republicans felt very differently when they came to power in 1994, including the house speaker to be.
NEWT GINGRICH, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: If this is not a mandate to move in a particular direction, I would like somebody to explain to me what a mandate would look like.
SCHNEIDER: Well, surprise! 1994 wasn't a Republican mandate either. Just after that midterm, only 18 percent of Americans thought they had given Republicans a mandate for their policies. So much for the contract with America.
Sounds like the public voted for a Democratic Congress that will stand up to President Bush.
Uh, oh. Could be a recipe for gridlock. Which is what most Americans expect. They don't want it, but they expect it.
Can Democrats defy those expectations?
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Voters gave Democrats a rare opportunity to help govern the country, to share the political agenda and the policy stage with President Bush.
SCHNEIDER: Share? That's what some Republicans are afraid of.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: President Bush is going to move to the left in the next two years. He's going to try to drag the Republicans and Congress with him.
SCHNEIDER: Speaker to be Pelosi starts out with a more favorable image than speaker to be Gingrich did in 1994 perhaps because she is being careful not to over interpret the voters' message.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: As the American people spoke with their votes and they spoke for change and they spoke in support of a new direction for all Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Americans vote on the way things are going -- continuity versus change. In this election, change won. And if the Democratic Congress can't deliver the changes people want, well, the voters will let them know -- John.
KING: And they did let them know. Bill, you noted in 1994 is the last time we went through this where the voters kicked out the party in control of Congress in the middle of a president's term. Any other comparisons worth noting?
KING: Well, in 1994, 50 percent of the voters told us at that time that what created the Republican victory was a desire to repudiate President Clinton. Remember after that midterm he had to defend his relevance.
Well, in this election 63 percent asked the same question said that they were voting to repudiate President Bush.
So, yes, it was very much a repudiation of the president now as it was then.
KING: Bill Schneider for us. Bill thank you very much. And Bill Schneider, of course, part of the best political team on television.
Meanwhile, one well-known political architect is seeing his well laid political plans amended. But might Karl Rove get his wish in the end?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Flashback just after the 2004 election -- listen to a proud Karl Rove detail the growing conservative tide.
KARL ROVE, SR. WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Republicans have won 7 of the last 10 presidential elections. We hold 55 Senate seats, 232 House seats and 28 governorships.
KING: The man the president calls the architect seemingly well on his way to his dream, a permanent Republican majority. But then came months and months of this.
And this.
THOMAS EDSALL, AUTHOR: Iraq basically happened, and this was not a sellable war. The Republican party collapsed.
KING: The 2006 midterms reversed the GOP gains of the Bush presidency. Democrats seized the majority in Congress with 232 House seats, 51 Senate seats. At the state level, Democrats will now control 28 governorships and gained 322 state legislative seats.
MERLE BLACK, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Karl Rove clearly was trying to create a public majority that has not happened. And unless he's got a really, really big finish in the last two years, it probably won't happen.
EDSALL: At the moment it's only a setback. The vote was against the Republican party, it was not for the Democratic party.
KING: But "Building Red America" author says there are significant strains in the Republican coalition. The West is trending Democratic. And two key groups turned away from the GOP this year -- rural voters.
EDSALL: They got hurt badly among rural voters who don't like this war and are inclined to vote Republican, but they're not going to vote for a Republican party that is doing something they consider futile in foreign affairs -- not just futile, but deadly futile.
KING: ... and so-called Reagan Democrats.
EDSALL: Really since Nixon, that group of voters has been more determinative of elections than any other constituency and they got to get those folks back or else they are in long-range, deep trouble.
KING: Emory University's Merle Black argues in upcoming book, "Divided America," that the Republican Party has become too anchored in the South and needs to use the 2008 presidential cycle to change its image.
BLACK: If it's going to be a viable, competitive party, it has got to develop more strength in the Northeast, you know, come back in the mountain plains and try to make some inroads again in the Midwest. And that is going to be a pretty tall order to do.
I think the Republican nominee is not going to be someone who really looks like George W. Bush. I think the Republicans have maxed out on a candidate, a presidential candidate, from the South and they really need to move in a quite different direction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And remember, as always, for the latest political news at any time, check out the Political Ticker at CNN.com/ticker.
Next up, much more on the election results and what they mean for the Democrats and the Republicans. I'll ask two of our political experts, Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett.
Plus the escalating violence in Iraq and the impact back here at home. Does the burden of the war, at least in part, now fall on the Democrats taking over control of Congress? Find out in today's "Strategy Session." You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm John King in Washington.
Back now to our top story, the horrific violence in Iraq and the fallout back here at home. Can the United States win the war in Iraq? More than half of those questioned in our poll out earlier this week say yes, but when asked if the United States will win the war, that number drops to just 40 percent. Nearly three-fifths of those we polled say the United States won't win.
And what about comparisons to Vietnam? Fifty-eight percent of those we questioned say the Iraq war ins turning into another Vietnam. Joining me now in today's "Strategy Session" to discuss this and more, CNN political analyst and Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, and Bill Bennett, CNN contributor and host of "Morning in America."
I want to start on Iraq and the president's trip. Mr. Bush is going to Jordan at a time -- to see Mr. Maliki, the prime minister, at a time when he is already on the record saying he is waiting for the Baker-Hamilton Commission to give him options for what to do next.
So we're in a holding pattern in terms of the strategy, Bill. What does the president have to get from this, and the stakes, obviously, raised by Muqtada al-Sadr saying if Mr. Maliki goes to see Mr. Bush, his government, his job, is at risk.
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right, well, whatever the Baker study group, you're always the commander in chief. When you're the president, you're always the commander in chief, and he may not take the recommendations.
He's got to have a pretty good idea at this point, I think, of what those recommendations are. And what he has got to say to Maliki is something like you have got to fix this situation. You've got to bear down on these militias.
You've got to do something about Muqtada al-Sadr, a whole host of things he needs to say. I think we have maybe one or two -- maybe just one more chance at this. Yesterday's violence was the worst we have seen since the war.
I noted a very interesting article in the "New Yorker" by George Packard, a very left-wing guy, who said, look, the situation will be horrible if we leave, but the United States is going to be forced to leave unless it confronts the situation directly, makes Maliki do the right things and things get better. The president is in the process of making Maliki do the right things.
KING: And if the president makes tough decisions that he believes will, as Bill says, make Maliki do the right thing, then those involved in the short-term, sending in more U.S. troops something the Democrats, obviously, have been opposed to. Should the Democrats step back if you will, and say, Mr. President, if you will enter into an honest dialogue, we will give you that one?
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I don't think the president has many options when he goes to Jordan this week. I agree with Bill. He has to put pressure on the prime minister to stabilize the security situation. The president is also under pressure here in this country to change the course.
So I think what the president must do this week is to tell the prime minister that, look, we cannot continue to play a central role in Iraq. It's time for the Iraqi government to make some tough decisions, step up, and take full responsibility for their government.
KING: You made a key point, Bill, that the president has to know roughly what the Baker-Hamilton Commission is going to give him. There's no secret plan to win the war in Iraq. Any of the options have been kicked around and kicked around and kicked around, which has many around town asking if he's the commander in chief what are we waiting for? Many say this is a president who is waiting for some political cover to have a change.
BENNETT: Yes, it's entirely possible that the Baker Commission will say a lot of things, list a lot of options such as go to Syria and Iran. Now, that gets harder for Syria, particularly, given the recent events. But they may also say in the short run, send some more troops in.
I mean, it's very interesting, not to be argumentative, but to try to be constructive here. Supposing the president says give me one more shot at this or give them one more shot, we need 20,000 or 30,000 more troops as McCain is saying, what do Democrats do? They didn't put Murtha in. They put Steny Hoyer in. Perhaps they would and then add language to that that says OK, you got it, but maybe this is it.
Now, I'm not recommending this because I think we should stay and win this thing even if it takes longer than that but, politically, it might be a smart thing for the Democrats to do and give the president a little more room which gives him even more leverage with Maliki.
KING: If you're advising the Democrats do you advise them to give the president that room? Because if the president fails -- if the president fails and Iraq tumbles into total chaos as opposed to what we have now which I guess we might call partial chaos -- the Democrats will be a governing party in Washington and may get part of the blame, whether it's their decision or not.
BRAZILE: Well, the Democrats have an opportunity when the president submits his supplemental bill, $130 billion next year, to try to help come up with a new policy and part of what should be on the table -- and there will be many options that I'm sure will be reviewed -- is how do we control the sectarian violence, how do we stop the insurgency?
And perhaps that means redeploying troops from elsewhere in the country. Great Britain is now planning to leave the southern part of the country. Perhaps we can take our troops from the northern part that's more stable, or the southern part and put them in Baghdad to curtail this violence.
KING: I want to move on to domestic an political issues.
But, Bill Bennett, I want to ask you this question. If one of the issues were to get that space from the emboldened Democrats right now is to have an eyeball to eyeball conversation of trust. Does this president have trust with the Democratic leadership in Congress?
BENNETT: Well, we'll see. Again, in some ways it doesn't matter. He is the president, he's the commanders in chief, he has the most power when it comes to the most pressing issue of the day. But note from what Donna and what, from other I would say constructive Democrats, have been saying the last few weeks, the kind of feverish talk we heard before the election is not the talk now. The talk now -- it's not about getting out, get out, get out. What can we do? What are our options? Let's seriously sit down and work and talk. The president has, obviously, got to give that a try with the new leadership. Presumably he is doing that already.
But the Democrats realize now that they are in charge in the House and Senate. The public is going to hold them responsible too, and that means when you're responsible you have to be careful.
KING: Well, let's pivot on that point of responsibility to the domestic political environment.
In our new poll, Donna, 27 percent of people, I believe, say that this was a mandate for the Democrats. Here we see it up here. A mandate for the Democrats -- 27 percent of the American people say it's a mandate. Sixty-four percent, essentially, say this was a protest vote, a rejection of the Republicans.
If you're the Democrats, and you're all full of, here we come, taking power, that has to be pretty sobering.
BRAZILE: Well, look, what Democrats believe the mandate is, is to restore civility, to restore integrity, to reform the Congress, and to work in a bipartisan fashion with the administration.
Clearly, Democrats will hold this administration accountable, will hold oversight hearings. But the Democrats coming in are prepared to work with the president and help lead the country on a whole array of issues and concerns, including national security.
KING: And what is the lesson for your side, whether it's a Republican lesson or maybe a conservative movement question?
We had six pretty good years. If you're a conservative, you're thinking...
BENNETT: Sure.
KING: And Karl Rove was out there, saying, look at all the seats we're winning. We are going to build this permanent red America, this permanent majority, and...
BENNETT: Right.
KING: ... gone in one election, the gains of the last six years.
Just a temporary setback, an adjustment?
BENNETT: Well, you know me. I'm trained as a philosopher.
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: So, I want to be...
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: I want to be philosophical. I think that's a very advantageous thing to be.
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: Look, they didn't say: We hate you. We hate you. We love the other guys.
What they said is what the American people often say: We want to give the other guys a chance. You know, it's time for a change. Let's give the other guys a chance.
I thought was somewhere between that and: We're really unhappy with you guys.
What we're saying, what our team is saying, is, you know, we partly deserved it. There are a lot of people out there, a lot of people calling on my show, saying, you know, I can't be too upset about this , because we -- we lost our principles. We defied our principles.
Now, of course, there is not agreement on exactly what those principles are.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Right.
BENNETT: But, thus, this -- we have time to think about it.
KING: And, so, if you're trying to -- if you're trying to -- a Democrat trying to capitalize in this environment, what do you do differently...
BRAZILE: Well...
KING: ... to get the American people to look and say, oh, OK?
BRAZILE: Democrats will seize the moment.
Look, the Republicans are leaving the Democrats with a lot to do, the appropriations bills, the budget bills. We have oversight hearings. So, I think Democrats are energized, ready to get back in there, ready to govern the country again.
BENNETT: Can I say just one thing? Because people -- when people look at us, they say, what is that right wing going to do?
What is that left wing going to do?
KING: Right.
BENNETT: When you get to this appropriations moment, how much pressure are people going to put -- from the left, put, and say, you got to cut off the funding, because that's what we voted for, that's what the Democratic Party is?
I -- I think it will be resistant, but it will be interesting to see how much pressure there will be.
KING: Does the party need a new face? George W. Bush is the president for two more years.
BENNETT: Oh, yes, sure.
KING: But the 2008 campaign is under way. And if you look at the map, it is, regionally -- it's pretty interesting, if you look at the map, and you see the Republican strength in the South...
BENNETT: Right.
KING: ... the Democrats' strength in the coast...
BENNETT: Right.
KING: ... and up in the Northeast -- the Midwest now clearly the battleground in national politics.
How do you, Bill Bennett, reposition the Republican Party, if you want to call this a temporary setback and be...
BENNETT: Right.
KING: ... philosophical and optimistic? What is the challenge?
BENNETT: Well, people aren't abandoning Bush. They like George Bush. You know, we're kind of a loyal bunch in that regard.
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: But people are looking ahead. There is no question about it.
I agree with Merle Black in your lead segment, who is a Southerner. It will not be a Southerner who will be the head -- at the head of the ticket. The top two guys right now, McCain and Giuliani, there's no question -- southwest isn't the South, and Giuliani sure isn't a Southerner.
I think the party, it has to change, too, if it's going to be a national party. Yes, people are looking for the leader. And that is on already. That run is on already.
KING: And anything with about the 2006 map that makes you think, if you are to take the next step, and win an embrace from the voters, not just a protest vote in 2008, the Democrats should look for X- candidate?
BRAZILE: Oh, look, no question, Democrats must solidify the gains made in the Northeast and the Midwest, and to continue to plow new ground in the South.
Look, I don't think the South is lost to Democrats. It's tough. It's a tough political terrain, but I do believe the Democrats have some opportunities in the gubernatorial elections in 2008 to take some of the Southern states back. And, of course, out West, it's fertile ground for Democrats now.
BENNETT: These guys are so mean, they're going after Chris Shays, you know. The only Republican in New England, they're going after.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Well, what does that tell you? What is the lesson?
(CROSSTALK)
KING: What is the lesson of that? Are the moderates...
BENNETT: Well...
KING: ... no longer welcome in the party?
BENNETT: No. I think -- see, this is the fascinating thing to me, again, running a talk radio show, talking to my audience, which is center-right, about Rudy Giuliani.
And they like him. And I run through these issues with them, you know, the social issues. They say, yes, but he's a really good guy, and maybe he doesn't mean that. I mean, people really like Giuliani. And I think they have a sense that he, among one or two others, is a winner.
And they very much want to win. And they have a sense that the party has to change its kind of geographical center.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: And, on my side, they love Hillary. They love Obama. They love John Edwards. They love Wes Clark. They love John Kerry.
BENNETT: They love everybody.
BRAZILE: They love everybody.
KING: They love everybody.
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: It's the old Democrat "love everybody" thing.
BRAZILE: Yes, we love everybody.
BENNETT: It's going to get them in trouble.
KING: We are going to end the love-fest right there for today.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAZILE: Yes.
KING: Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett, we will end on a happy, loving note.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAZILE: Absolutely.
KING: Thank you both very much.
And Donna and Bill, of course, part of the best political team on television.
KING: And, also, remember...
BENNETT: Kumbaya.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Kumbaya. We will roast the marshmallows during the break.
For the latest political news at any time, check out the Political Ticker at CNN.com/ticker.
Up next: much more on the war in Iraq and the impact here in Washington. Setbacks in past conflicts had serious political consequences back home. Will that happen again?
Plus: What are the military options now for the United States in Iraq? We will go live to the Pentagon next hour for to find out.
Stay right there. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: More now on our top story: fears that Iraq could erupt into an all-out civil war.
Warring Shiites and Sunnis are launching violent attacks on each other, one day after the single worst day of sectarian violence in Iraq since the war began.
What might the political impact be?
More now from CNN senior analyst Jeff Greenfield in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: John, another day of awful news from Iraq. And, more and more, it appears that the choices for the United States range from bad to worse.
And this raises a question. What happens on the political home front when the news from abroad is grim?
(voice-over): Consider what happened in the first years of the Cold War, when the Soviets overtook Eastern Europe and when Moscow exploded its own atom bomb. That news helped fuel the argument that America's political leadership had been guilty of incompetence, negligence, or even worse.
Wisconsin Senator Joseph McCarthy, in 1950, began an effort to find subversives and traitors throughout the government who had betrayed the United States.
Now, there were American citizens who spied for the Soviet Union. Historians now pretty much agree that Julius Rosenberg was one of them. But McCarthy's own investigations went nowhere, and, in fact, ended in a Senate censure.
When Mao Zedong's communist forces gained control of mainland China in 1949, some on the right demanded to know who lost China. And when the Korean War ground to a stalemate, Republicans flayed the Truman administration. Richard Nixon talked of Secretary of State Dean Acheson's college of cowardly communist containment.
In the late 1960s, the Vietnam War grew increasingly unpopular, and spawned the idea of, win or get out. Richard Nixon won the White House in 1968, in part, by pointing to the war's failure as proof of the need for new leadership.
And the sometimes provocative anti-war demonstrations helped win Nixon support among the silent majority, when that war became his burden. The 444-day captivity of American hostages held in Tehran, and the failure of a U.S. rescue mission in the spring of 1980, helped tar President Carter as a weak leader, one reason why he lost in a landslide to Ronald Reagan in 1980.
But Iraq seems to be different. The growing violence, the failure of the Iraq government to produce stability or visible progress has stirred opposition beyond the normal anti-war sources. Retired generals were demanding Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's hide months before he was replaced.
Conservative commentators, such as William Buckley and George Will, were openly skeptical almost from the beginning, as was Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, a Vietnam combat veteran, and senator- elect James Webb, also a Vietnam combat veteran, with decidedly hawkish views back in the Vietnam era.
So, the idea that, somehow, an American triumph in Iraq was undermined is unlikely to be a theme of the American right.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... have prevailed.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
GREENFIELD: But, at the same time, many of those whose views the left has embraced, retired Marine Corps Commandant Anthony Zinni, for example, warn that simply withdrawing will lead to disaster.
(on camera): This view, in turn, is likely to put Democratic presidential contenders in a fascinating situation. Do they court their base, which tends to the get-out-fast view, or do they listen to those war critics who say, that way lies even more bad news? -- John. (END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Jeff Greenfield, with a little history, from New York -- thank you, Jeff.
And coming up: He won a seat his party hasn't held in nearly 20 years. So, what is his message to Democrats in Washington? I will ask the incoming Ohio governor, Ted Strickland.
Plus: Vice President Cheney is on his way today to Saudi Arabia. What does he hope to accomplish while there? A report from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia up next hour.
Stay right here. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Among the biggest surprises for Democrats from the recent election, capturing a governorship they hadn't won in 16 years. That would be Ohio.
I recently spoke with governor-elect Ted Strickland about his major victory.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Well, you served in the House of Representatives here in Washington. You know Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, the leadership team of the Democrats, coming in. You're going to face many of the same challenges, groups that have been out of power for some time that have agendas of their own that might run counter to what you want to do, or certainly what you want to do at the very beginning, when you're trying to set a tone and a path for your administration.
How difficult is that challenge for you, and how difficult do you think it will be for speaker-elect Pelosi?
TED STRICKLAND (D), OHIO GOVERNOR-ELECT: Well, I think it's a difficult challenge.
And the fact is that we want to make sure that the programs we pursue can be justified. And, throughout my campaign, John, I talked about working in common purpose for the common good of all. And that is the kind of administration that I intend to preside over.
And I have confidence that Speaker Pelosi will have the same kind of attitude. It is too important for us to blow this opportunity. The people have given both the Democrats at the federal level and here in the great state of Ohio an opportunity to provide leadership. And now the burden is upon us to provide that leadership in a way that reflects the best of our political system.
In Ohio, we have had a lot of corruption and scandal. One of the big political contributors to the political party was just sentenced to 20 years in prison for engaging in a pay-to-play kind of situation. We must not allow that to happen, either at the federal or at the state level.
Our obligation is to have honest, ethical, transparent government. And that is what I intend to do as Ohio's next governor.
KING: Twenty-two Democratic governors going into the midterm elections, 28 Democratic governors coming out of the midterm elections.
From a national perspective, it gives your party an advantage heading into pushing an agenda in 2007, into a presidential campaign in 2008. Republicans have never won the presidency without capturing your state of Ohio. What is your message to the national Democratic Party? And what is Ted Strickland's role in the next big national campaign?
STRICKLAND: Well, my message is this: Focus on the important issues, the issues of education, the issues of health care, the issues of economic growth, and living-wage job creation.
If the Democrats, and if I do that here at the state level, we will be successful in '08 in electing a Democrat to the presidency. But we have an obligation to produce. The people have given us this opportunity. And now the burden, as I said, is upon our shoulders. And we have got to work honestly and ethically.
We have got to try to work in a bipartisan, collaborative manner. And, if we do that, the people will honor those efforts. And, if we don't do that, I think they will punish us in '08.
KING: A couple of quick lessons on the lessons of '06: Ted Strickland won votes in rural areas where there are Bible Belt voters, religious conservatives that the Democrats have been unable to reach in past elections.
STRICKLAND: Yes.
KING: What did you do?
STRICKLAND: Well, I did not concede a single vote or voter to my opponent. And that means that I reached out to the community of faith.
I tried to transmit to them my beliefs, my values, my desire to provide honest, ethical leadership for Ohio. And they responded. And the fact is that the Democratic Party, I think, has a wonderful opportunity now, not to concede the community of faith, but to reach out and embrace the community of faith, to do it in a way that honors the division, the rightful, appropriate division between church and state, but simply not allowing the other side to assume that they have the right to the votes of the people who are deeply religious and who have deep faith.
And, so, we are promoting faithful Democrats. It's a new effort to demonstrate to this country -- and I certainly hope to demonstrate that to the people of Ohio -- that you can be a person of deep faith and a person with strong values, and still embrace the principles of the Democratic Party, which, in my view, are deeply embedded in values that are consistent with the major religious belief systems that exist within our state and throughout our nation.
KING: Governor-elect Ted Strickland of Ohio, the first Democrat who will hold that job in 16 years, sir, congratulations, and thanks for sharing your thoughts today.
STRICKLAND: Thank you, John. It's good to be with you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Up next: A presidential prospect takes a stand on same- sex marriage, Massachusetts Government Mitt Romney. His state allows gay marriage, but we will tell you what Romney is doing to try to change that.
And it's a showdown between "The New York Times" and the Justice Department. Will the Supreme Court get involved? We will tell you just what is going on.
Stay right here. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Here's a look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your newspaper tomorrow.
Let's begin in Afghanistan. Coalition airstrikes engage Taliban insurgents, in response to a rocket attack on a Canadian base.
On a German highway, a small plane clipped a bridge and crash- landed into a car. Seven people were injured.
Near Ramallah, on the West Bank, a Palestinian argues with an Israeli army officer during a protest.
And, in Karachi, Pakistan, Pakistani troops show off their stuff during a defense exhibition.
And that's this hour's "Hot Shots," pictures often worth 1,000 words.
And Carol Lin joins us now from the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta with a closer look at other stories making news -- Carol.
LIN: John, let's start in Massachusetts.
The governor there, Mitt Romney, is stepping up his efforts to get a proposed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment on the state's 2008 ballot. Now, today, he asked the state's highest court to force the amendment onto the ballot if the legislature fails to vote on it.
The Republican governor filed the request with the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, after lawmakers put off asking on the question until January.
And "The New York Times" is asking the Supreme Court to intervene in a showdown with the Justice Department. Government investigators want phone records for two of the newspaper's reporters. The Justice Department says phone calls from the journalists tipped off two Islamic charities to government plans to search their offices and freeze their assets.
And, also, sad news to report: Former New York Times" managing editor Gerald Boyd is dead. Boy, a journalistic pioneer among African-Americans, resigned following the Jayson Blair plagiarism scandal. But Boyd led "The Times" to several Pulitzer Prizes. He died yesterday of complications from lung cancer. He was only 56.
And it's Black Friday for the country's retailers, but that's not as bad as it sounds. This is the day when they are traditionally believed to stop operating in the red and actually begin turning profits in the black. Business is brisk at malls across the country and online. Wal-Mart says its Web site crashed this morning because of too much traffic.
But, John, I know you have been busy with the day's news, so, you probably haven't been out shopping yet.
KING: I was trying to get them -- with all these video walls here in THE SITUATION ROOM, I could do some serious online shopping, if they would let me.
(LAUGHTER)
LIN: You sure can.
KING: We will give a try.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Carol Lin in Atlanta.
LIN: Yes.
KING: Carol, thank you very much.
And next: It's a book whose -- whose subject includes murder, but a book many people do not want to read, O.J. Simpson's "If I Did It." Some people are trying to get their hands on a copy of the book on eBay. We will have the details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Copies of O.J.'s now defunct book, "If I Did It," have started to pop up on the popular auction site eBay. But how easy it to actually get a copy of the book online?
Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton, has been not shopping, investigating -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: John, not that easy, in fact.
What looks to be a copy, you click through, and it will turn out to be an O.J. Simpson e-mail address, just someone trying to make a quick buck. And, sometimes, if you find what you think is an actual copy, a couple of clicks later, and you will see that there's a message, "This listing has been removed," although it's not always clear by whom.
It seems that a couple have slipped through the cracks, a seller from Texas listing a copy earlier this week, compete -- complete with pictures of somebody holding the book, and pictures of the cover, and -- and pictures of inside as well.
We tried to contact this seller, who didn't get back to us, but did write online: "This book was given to me as a gift. Don't judge me for selling it."
It reached, according to the Web site, $8,300.
Now, it's just -- not just interested buyers that are looking around online for copies of this book. An attorney for the family of Nicole Brown Simpson tells us, she has been trolling eBay as well, and contacting buyers and sellers who are listing copies, telling them, demanding that they return the copies to HarperCollins, so that they can be destroyed. Attorney Natasha Roit called the auctions inappropriate and outrageous.
We tried to contact eBay today. They didn't respond to our questions. But we looked around the site just a couple of minutes ago. It doesn't seem like any copies are available, from what we could see, right now -- John.
KING: Thank you, Abbi.
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