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The Situation Room
Baker Commission About to Report Findings; Interview With John Murtha
Aired December 01, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Kitty. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now -- laying the groundwork for an exit strategy from Iraq. It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington where a bipartisan panel may be on the brink of setting an ambitious goal. I'll ask a leading war critic, Congressman John Murtha, if he expects a withdrawal sooner rather than later.
Also this hour, x-ray vision at the airport. It's 5:00 p.m. in Phoenix where a controversial weapon in the war on terror soon will be in use. Will it help protect you or will it invade your privacy by baring all?
And a pastor and a politician embrace once another and leave some Christian conservatives cold. It's 4:00 p.m. in California where Senator Barack Obama and evangelical leader Rick Warren join forces today, despite the fallout.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, growing questions about the political future of the Iraqi leader President Bush says he has so much confidence in. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's problems at home could overshadow and even undermine any new efforts here in the United States to try to find a way out of Iraq. Right now the White House is reaching out to another powerful figure within the country in its urgent scramble to solve the Iraq problem.
Abdul Aziz al-Hakim is scheduled to meet with the president here in Washington on Monday. He's a top Iraqi Shiite leader with close ties to Iran. Let's get more on the latest power plays inside Iraq.
Joining us now our correspondent in Baghdad, Nic Robertson -- Nic, you're there. You're on the ground. You're meeting with top Iraqi leaders right now. Give us a sense how desperate their mood might be.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right now there's real concern, Wolf. They were hoping that Prime Minister Maliki's visit with President Bush in Jordan would produce perhaps some changes, something new. That hasn't happened. Clearly, a lot of politicians here now see the pressure being on Prime Minister Maliki to deal with Muqtada al-Sadr, the firebrand Shiite cleric, deal with his large unruly Mehdi militia who accused in some cases of being part of the death squads killing people here in Iraq.
He is under pressure to deal with them and disarm them. And a lot of the politicians here say that is impossible for Prime Minister Maliki to do. His power base is built on Muqtada al-Sadr, built on these people. Some people, very senior in the government here, now believe it is time for a change of -- in the government at this time. They don't believe that Prime Minister Maliki can last a lot longer.
There is, of course, support for the prime minister, support for him, he's going to push ahead with this. Certainly that is what we've been hearing from the United States, President Bush saying he'll give Prime Minister Maliki all the support he can have. We've heard about additional troops being moved to Baghdad to help support the Iraqi government, to help support Prime Minister Maliki, but the wide and broader assessment here among the leadership of politicians is that this is a very challenging job and one perhaps, perhaps that Mr. Maliki can't achieve -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And there are some analysts here in Washington who are telling me, Nic that events on the ground seem to be spiraling out of control and irrespective of whatever recommendations the Iraq Study Group comes up with, any specific military steps the U.S. may make, it might be a case of too little, too late.
ROBERTSON: The rationale here is that that is very possibly the case. That whatever the study group has envisioned for Iraq may be coming too late, maybe because they began their study earlier this year, that events have changed so much over the last six or seven months, but the real concern is, is that the pressure that's being put on this government is a load that it can't bear.
The Muqtada al-Sadr's militia -- to go back to that issue -- has grown so large in the past year, since the time when the study group began its study, but it's too hard to disarm and disable despite everyone's best efforts. Politically they can be -- the radical elements that it can be isolated, that perhaps Muqtada al-Sadr can still be brought onboard but you still have to deal with all those armed militants with the weapons -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic, be careful over there -- Nic Robertson in Baghdad. Thank you.
All this comes just days before the bipartisan Iraq Study Group is due to deliver its recommendations to Mr. Bush. "The Washington Post" reports the panel will call for a conditional goal of withdrawing almost all U.S. combat units from Iraq, as many as 70,000 troops by early 2008. Sources close to the study group have told CNN a specific timetable will be proposed in the report, which is scheduled to be released on Wednesday. We'll have extensive coverage all day Wednesday on that.
Amid all of this, the commander of the U.S. Military Central Command is staying focused on the military mission in Iraq. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has this exclusive report -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we're traveling with General John Abizaid in Iraq, but tonight due to security concerns we cannot say our exact location.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): On his way into Iraq, General John Abizaid huddles with his advisers reviewing the latest information about the sectarian violence that is tearing this country apart. He strongly believes that the violence in Iraq cannot be dealt with in isolation. That Hezbollah and Lebanon and Iran's growing backing of insurgent groups both pose threats the U.S. must deal with while it continues to fight in Iraq. And Abizaid dismisses any talk that the U.S. military is ready to abandon its efforts in the most violent areas of western Iraq's al-Anbar Province.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We have to put our priorities on where operations need to be, just like any military force, but the only people that are writing this country off seem to be people that are uninformed and really haven't studied the situation.
STARR: Abizaid arrives here just days before the Iraq Study Group is scheduled to make its recommendations. Here on the ground, there is growing anticipation that President Bush will now order an accelerated turnover of security to the Iraqis, but there is no question that turnover in al-Anbar and in Baghdad is months away. Baghdad for now remains the central front in this war. More U.S. troops may be headed to the capital in the days ahead. Abizaid is taking a long-term view.
ABIZAID: You can't do all things at all times, but you can have an effect. You can stabilize the country. You can improve the Iraqi security forces over time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: General Abizaid is determined to stay out of the political fray and continue to focus on the military strategy for Iraq -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Barbara Starr reporting from the region for us. Thank you very much.
Let's get some more now on Iraq -- Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: As Wolf just told you a couple of minutes ago the ten-member Iraq Study Commission will be out with its report next week. One of the things that's been leaked to the press is that they're going to call for the reduction of U.S. combat troops by 2008. The question is do you believe that nearly all U.S. combat units will be out of Iraq by 2008? Send your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: There's going to be a lot of commotion next Wednesday on that, Jack. Thank you very much.
Coming up tonight, a possible thaw, possible thaw, in the relationship between the United States and Iran -- we're watching this story very closely. Five-plus years after 9/11, foreign students are now returning to United States' college campuses in much bigger numbers. And that's something the State Department is making a priority, including speeding up the visa process for those students. Earlier, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM I asked assistant secretary of state for educational and cultural affairs, Dina Powell, if this effort includes students from Arab and Muslim countries, including Iran, and she made news.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DINA POWELL, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: This week is the first time that we have restarted our exchange programs with Iran.
BLITZER: So we're letting Iranian students come here?
POWELL: We are letting Iranians in. There is a group of medical officials that are participating in an exchange program. The first time since 1979 that we've resumed exchanges with the Iranian people.
BLITZER: How many involved?
POWELL: We have over a dozen involved and we have many more planned over the coming months. And in fact, this is part of President Bush's desire to show that we really do want to learn more about the rich history and tradition and culture of the Iranian people, and so we are so pleased that these participants came and I'll tell you something, the medical professionals on our side that have met with them keep talking about what they're learning about the medical advances in Iran. You know well of the talent in Iran.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: It sounds potentially like it's an early exchange, an exchange of students, journalists, athletes, whatever. Remember ping- pong diplomacy is practiced in the early days...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: ... in the thaw between the United States and China. Is that's what's happening with the U.S. and Iran right now?
POWELL: It is. We are working hard. And you know there's a two track ---two tracks going on and there is the clear policy issues that we're working on with the nuclear issue and the international community is speaking quite loudly that Iran ought to take the offer on the table that you know well on. But on this other side, yes, we want to reach out to the Iranian people. We want to engage them in a mutual dialogue and this is a way to show how much we want to do it and we're so thrilled they've agreed to participate and we hope that we'll continue these programs.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Assistant Secretary of State Dina Powell speaking with me here in THE SITUATION ROOM earlier today suggesting that there are some movements, are some developments in trying to ease this relationship between the United States and Iran. We're going to stay on top of this story, especially next week when this report comes out, this bipartisan report that may, may, call for direct talks between the United States and Iran and Syria for that matter as well.
Coming up, my interview with Congressman John Murtha, he wants U.S. troops out of Iraq sooner rather than later and he has some very tough words for the White House.
Also, their politics are very different but a common cause has one of the country's best known evangelical leaders embracing Democratic Senator Barack Obama.
Plus, a day of ceremony marred by violence, pomp and chaos as Mexico's new president is sworn in. CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a look.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Today is World AIDS Day and many are marking it with some sober ceremonies and solemn pledges to do more to battle the disease. But one anti-AIDS event is raising eyebrows not because of its purpose but because of its participants.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is joining us from Lake Forest in California with more -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there is quite a bit of controversy leading up to Senator Barack Obama's visit here today. Some conservative Christians did not want the pro-choice senator to take the church pulpit.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): With an embrace from evangelical Pastor Rick Warren and an enthusiastic applause (INAUDIBLE) Saddleback Church...
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you so much, thank you.
GUTIERREZ: ... Senator Barack Obama took to the pulpit but his appearance at what was called the global summit on AIDS and the church was anything but usual.
(MUSIC)
GUTIERREZ: To begin with, the Democratic senator from Illinois stood before an audience of 2,000, many evangelical church leaders from across the country who could be described as his political foes, adamantly opposed to Obama's political positions on abortion and embryonic stem cell research.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has an evil outlook when it comes to the human race.
GUTIERREZ: In fact, Rick Warren took heat from some conservative Christians for inviting Obama to speak at the summit and was urged to rescind the invitation, but Warren wouldn't budge saying he invited Obama and Republican Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas to talk about AIDS in the spirit of non-partisanship.
PASTOR RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: You've seen the face of this, compassionate conservatism and the face of compassionate liberalism and what we have in common is compassion.
GUTIERREZ: But it's this shot of Obama at the pulpit holding hands with notable evangelical leader Rick Warren that worries some Christian conservatives.
REV. ROB SCHENCK, NATIONAL CLERGY COUNCIL: A photo is worth 1,000 words, and that's really all he needs for his presidential campaign.
GUTIERREZ: USC political analyst Kareem Crayton agrees.
KAREEM CRAYTON, POLITICAL ANALYST: It certainly plays in to the very argument that got him on the public radar to begin with, that there's no red or blue America, that it's the United States of America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love your neighbor as yourself.
GUTIERREZ: If Obama is able to reach across the political divide and attract an evangelical following, analysts say he will have accomplished what few Democrats have so far been able to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUTIERREZ: Now, Rick Warren and Senators Obama and Brownback all took AIDS tests today before the cameras. They all had their cheeks swabbed they say to show just how easy it is and focusing all the attention back on the AIDS issue -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And what was his basic message of Barack Obama when he spoke to this group?
GUTIERREZ: Well you know he said that it's important for everyone to get involved, that this is not a partisan issue. This is something that involves each and every person. It's an international issue and it's something that -- that requires everyone to take part in, and he basically reached out to the folks here and said we don't have to agree on everything, but we should all join together on this one issue.
BLITZER: All right. Thelma Gutierrez thanks very much for that -- Barack Obama clearly on the move right now. Meanwhile, there are new developments regarding two other presidential prospects. It involves Senator John McCain who recently stole the spotlight from one person he might eventually need to upstage in 2008.
Let's turn to CNN's Carol Costello for details -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, it's like when were you in high school and you were reveling in being the cool person hosting a cool party to increase your rep. Then the captain of the football team shows up and you become the kid at the back of the room again.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): War hero, esteemed senator, creator of the straight talk express, and now party crasher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is an honor to be able to introduce him to you, Senator John McCain.
(APPLAUSE)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Thank you, Lincoln. Thank you very much.
COSTELLO: A lovely introduction, but the spotlight was supposed to shine on Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney. It was his event, after all it was the Republican Governors Association meeting and he's the chairman. Last time we checked John McCain is not a governor and never was. But there he was charming his fellow Republicans with his signature folksy style.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you be too old to be president of the United States?
MCCAIN: Well Ronald Reagan wasn't, and I'd like for to you meet my 94-year-old mother that just came back from driving herself around France.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So age is not an issue?
MCCAIN: I am older than dirt, more scars than Frankenstein, but I've learned a few things along the way.
COSTELLO: And where was Governor Romney? He was standing at a podium at Miami's golf resort talking to about half his invited guests and getting absolutely no TV coverage. All the cameras were on McCain who commandeered a room at the same resort to host almost a dozen Republican governors including Florida's Governor-elect Charlie Crist. Welcome to the first volume of 2008 Republican primary.
DAVID WINSTON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it was a smart political move. There was a significant gathering of important Republicans. It was a chance to show his political strength, and he clearly was able to do that, and also do it in a way to contrast himself to a potential opponent Mitt Romney. COSTELLO: And indeed, John Weaver, Senator McCain's senior political adviser, told us a number of governors have committed to John but we are not ready to announce them yet. Governor Romney wasn't playing the potential presidential nominee game, his office telling us today, we have no comment. But some experts say he should have been playing the game and they say the fact of the matter is all Republicans who want to be the presidential nominee should have been there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: This is just an illustration of how aggressive John McCain is seeking his fellow Republican support and Mitt Romney who hasn't announced he's running, well it's perhaps an example of what he'll face in 2008 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: The politics of the political season just ended, but guess what? It's already beginning again. Thanks very much, Carol, for that.
There's this additional note. A source close to Senator Evan Bayh says he will take the first formal step toward a potential White House run. The Indiana Democrat will file papers for a presidential exploratory committee. A source says Bayh will make a final decision on whether or not to run after the first of the year.
Still to come tonight right here in THE SITUATION ROOM the Iraq Study Group poised to make recommendations on the war and redeploying U.S. troops. Will it be enough to satisfy war critic and military veteran Congressman John Murtha? I'll ask him.
Plus, the Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez explaining what was behind that infamous comment he made at the United Nations when he called President Bush the devil.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Venezuelans head to the polls this Sunday. And President Hugo Chavez is almost certain to win reelection. He's apparently as popular at home as he is unpopular with so many people in this country.
Here to show us why, our State Department correspondent Zain Verjee -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Hugo Chavez is a thorn in the side of the U.S. but polls in Venezuela show that that's going to continue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): He made headlines when he stood before the United States and called President Bush the devil.
PRES. HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA (through translator): It still smells like sulfur.
VERJEE: Hugo Chavez now says he was speaking off the cuff.
CHAVEZ (through translator): I didn't plan to call him a devil, but it came from my heart. And if it comes from my heart then that's because for me it's true.
VERJEE: Chavez' comments annoyed the U.S. but they went over well in Venezuela where many believe their president is standing up to what they see as American imperialism. A recent AP-Ipsos poll of both registered and likely voters finds 59 percent approve of the way their president handles foreign policy, and 63 percent say they have a negative view of President Bush. But Venezuela's ambassador says there's more to the Chavez revolution than just anti-American rhetoric.
BERNARDO ALVAREZ HERRERA, VENEZUELAN AMB. TO U.S.: But Venezuela is (INAUDIBLE) an alternative movement to the Washington consensus.
VERJEE: Herrera says only the elite are represented in U.S. democracy and that free trade will not solve the problems of the poor in Latin America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a different view of many things in the world, but we are not enemies of the U.S.
VERJEE: The U.S. says it's Chavez who's out of touch.
TOM CASEY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We have a view of the hemisphere that we believe is shared by the people of the hemisphere and by the vast majority of countries that -- countries out there.
VERJEE: Despite all the tough talk, the U.S. is Venezuela's biggest oil customer and that plays right in to Chavez's hand.
DANIEL RESTREPO, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: We should understand him I think for what he is and that is a populist showman who has the advantage of having an enormous amount of oil and is able to play the populist card and command intention on the international stage.
VERJEE: But Chavez set to win Sunday's election is likely to continue confronting the U.S., experts say the U.S. shouldn't take the bait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to de-escalate the rhetoric and essentially constructively ignore Hugo Chavez and get about the business of dealing with the real issues that are affecting U.S. policy and the Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Other experts say the U.S. needs to find ways to communicate with Chavez saying that you really won't have any influence if you don't talk -- Wolf. BLITZER: We'll be watching these elections on Sunday, Zain. Thanks very much. Hugo Chavez about to be re-elected presumably, but we'll watch.
Just ahead, the Iraq Study Group reportedly ready to call for withdrawing nearly all combat, combat troops by early 2008. Congressman John Murtha wants it done sooner. My interview with the decorated military veteran, that's coming up next.
Plus a high-powered scanner that leaves little to the imagination. We're going to show you why it's becoming so controversial right now. You're going to want to see this.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now -- the season's first big snowstorm closes in on the northeastern part of the United States after pounding the Midwest. At least six deaths are blamed on the icy weather. There's more than a foot of snow in some areas, by car or plane, many people aren't going anywhere very fast.
The nation's largest Roman Catholic archdiocese will pay $60 million to settle 45 sexual abuse lawsuits. It's the biggest payout yet by the L.A. archdiocese. Cardinal Roger Mahony says it's time for healing and reconciliation.
And hundreds of thousands of Hezbollah supporters took to the streets in Beirut today. They want Lebanon's prime minister out, but he says he has no plans to resign without a no-confidence vote in the Parliament.
I'm Wolf Blitzer, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, anticipation is building for the Iraq Study Group to deliver its recommendations to President Bush next week. Lawmakers of both parties are likely to zero in on parts of the report dealing with exit strategies, and possible targets dates for a U.S. withdrawal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Joining us now, a powerful voice in the push to try to bring the troops home, Democratic Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania.
Congressman, thanks very much for coming in.
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Nice to be here, Wolf.
BLITZER: The outlines are coming out of what this bipartisan study group is going to do. We don't know the specific details yet. It's a 100-page document.
But based on what you've read, what you've heard so far, the general outlines, what do you think?
MURTHA: Well, I talked to Leon Panetta today and if you remember, a year ago I said we need to redeploy as soon as practicable, and I said stress diplomacy. Then the public spoke. And at the time I spoke out, about 50 percent of the public supported what I was saying. Now, 60 percent of the public supports what I've been saying and they spoke very clearly in the election.
Now, the commission is saying let's redeploy, let's change the policy of stay the course to redeployment.
The problem, as I understand it -- and I haven't seen the report either, Wolf -- but the problem is they say it depends on the circumstances on the ground.
Well, if it depends on circumstances on the ground, it's not a lot different than what President Bush is saying. And then President Bush says you're going to ignore it anyway.
Now, we have to have a change in policy here and that's what we're going to work on all this year, trying to work with this president in trying to reduce our number of troops in Iraq and do it as soon as practicable.
BLITZER: Leon Panetta, a former White House chief of staff under President Clinton, OMB director, a former member of the House himself, did he give you a sense of how specific, though, they might be, in terms of a timeline?
MURTHA: Well, he said I think the end of 2008 have all the troops out. But that's unacceptable.
BLITZER: What, you mean all the troops, or just the combat troops...
MURTHA: Well, that's right...
BLITZER: ... because half of the troops...
MURTHA: You -- yes.
BLITZER: ... the other are support troops or trainers.
MURTHA: Yes, that's true. He said combat troops. But that is unacceptable to me. We're costing $8 billion a month, Wolf. Since I spoke out, there were 400 attacks a day. Now there's 800 attacks a day. All the measurements which you and I have talked about before -- oil production, electricity production -- below pre-war level.
The Iraqis want us out of there. The world wants us out of there. We have to find a way to redeploy the troops and we have to do it sooner rather than later.
Now, we have to work on it this year. I'm going to meet with the White House officials some time next week and try to convince them that it's just not going well. Is not going to be better. Commissioner -- or the Kissinger came out with the same type of thing in the 1960s and three years later, we got out of there, but we lost 20,000 troops.
We're just not making the progress. And then they say well, we need 300,000 Iraqis trained. Then they say we need 100,000 more Iraqis trained. They keep changing the guidelines.
That's the problem with this report.
BLITZER: Here's what the president said the other day, and he seemed to be speaking to you and other critics when he said this.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've been asked about timetables ever since we got into this. All timetables mean is that it is a timetable for withdrawal. You kept asking me those questions. All that does is -- hold on a second.
All that does is set people up for unrealistic expectations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, you want to respond to him?
MURTHA: Yes, I'll tell you, Wolf, he misses the whole point. The public has spoken. The world has spoken. This is not a dictatorship. This is a democracy. We have to do what's best for America. They keep saying there will be more chaos. The secretary- designate said if we leave, there will be more chaos.
I don't agree with that. I think there will be less chaos. I think we have caused some of the chaos by being in Iraq. We're going to have less terrorism if we reduce -- if we redeploy our troops, and we should redeploy them as quickly as possible.
So I need to see the whole report. They say in the report no permanent bases and some other things like that. Well, that's fine. I agree with that. We need to get these supplementals out of the way and start putting the funding for this bill in the base bill, all of those kind of things we're going to change next year.
We can have a dramatic influence on what's happening here if we do it right. But we want to work with this administration to redeploy the troops and we want to do it as soon as possible.
BLITZER: Does the United States have a responsibility to protect those Iraqis who cooperated with the United States, who worked with the United States and who now clearly fear if the U.S. pulls out -- which is what you want -- they're going to be vulnerable to attack, they could be killed?
MURTHA: Let me tell you something, we have to do what's best for America. That's what our diplomacy is all about. We've made a lot of mistakes in this war. We made a mistake by going in -- no al Qaeda connection, no connection -- no weapons of mass destruction. And the handling of the occupation has been dismal. Everybody admits that's all kinds of mistakes.
But for us to stay when it's getting worse every day is irresponsible and so we need to find a way, a center. We need to give the Iraqis the incentive. They have no incentive. They're living in the Green Zone. The prime minister is living in the Green Zone. He comes out every once in awhile to meet with people, but he's being protected by American troops.
We need to say to him, let the Iraqis protect you.
BLITZER: Congressman, what do you say to Senator John McCain or Lindsey Graham or John Cornyn, who say the United States can still win in Iraq, but it would require deploying perhaps another 50,000 American forces to go in there and get the job done?
MURTHA: I say it's impossible to find 50,000 troops to send in there for the amount of time it would take. I just met with the deputy chief of staff of the Army today. I said what's our strategic reserve look like?
And he said the same thing I've been saying. We have no strategic reserve. We have no ability to find those troops to go over there for that extended period of time. We can't sustain that kind of a deployment. So that's unrealistic to even make those kind of comments.
BLITZER: Any hard feelings over Steny Hoyer becoming the majority leader, and your losing that position?
MURTHA: Well, we'll keep working where we are to try to get this war out of the way. That's all over and now we're working, trying to get the troops redeployed.
BLITZER: We saw that photo-op when he started to speak. You sort of walked away. There was an interpretation you were irritated.
Are you still irritated?
MURTHA: Well, let me tell you, Wolf, you want to talk about Iraq, I'm glad to talk about it. I'm going to work with Nancy and work with the majority trying to get our troops home as soon as possible.
BLITZER: You don't want to talk about working with Steny Hoyer?
MURTHA: You heard what I said, Wolf.
BLITZER: OK.
I'll leave it at that.
Congressman, always great to speak with you. Thanks very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Clearly irritated.
Up ahead tonight, new fears of more radiation contamination in Britain. The investigation into who killed a former Russian spy deepens as his widow now tests positive for the same radioactive substance.
And punches are thrown, chairs are flying -- an inauguration so combative, the new president had to sneak in the back door to get sworn in. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In Britain, new developments in the investigation into the death of that former Russian spy killed with a radioactive poison. CNN's Matthew Chance reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yet another dramatic turn in this increasingly complex poison plot. This, the face of Mario Scaramella, now being treated in a London hospital after confirmation he, too, is poisoned with radiation, the kind that caused an agonizing death for his friend, former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko.
DR. KEITH PATTERSON, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE HOSPITAL: Tests have detected polonium 210 in Mr. Scaramella's body, but at a considerably lower level than Mr. Litvinenko.
He is currently well and shows no symptoms of radiation poisoning.
CHANCE: A key figure in the police investigation, Scaramella is the Italian contact who met Litvinenko in a London sushi bar on November the 1st, the day he felt sick. He was once a consultant to an Italian parliamentary commission set up to investigate allegations of past KGB influence in Italian politics. He told Litvinenko he'd found a secret Russian hit list that included both their names.
MARIO SCARAMELLA, ACADEMIC: So it was in the top of papers, and I said, Alex, I'm here also to ask you a comment, because I received that day an alarm in the last few days from my source he introduced to me.
CHANCE: But confirmation he is also contaminated raises important questions. Was he poisoned at the same time as Litvinenko? Was he contaminated through contact with his friend, or should he now be considered a suspect?
PHIL WALKER, PHYSICIST: Well, I think any of them is possible, really. It seems hard to imagine for me that he's got severely contaminated from Litvinenko from any casual contact. So it seems likely he's mixed up in it significantly.
CHANCE: But what of the contaminated aircraft still grounded for forensic tests? Neither Scaramella or Litvinenko went anywhere near them. Someone else must have been involved.
The now completed autopsy is unlikely to answer these questions, nor is it likely to prove Litvinenko's dying claim that he was poisoned by his longtime foes in the Russian government.
In a cruel twist, tests have confirmed Litvinenko's widow, Marina, pictured in the middle, is also contaminated with what doctors say are very small traces of the same poison, intensifying concern that these victims may not be the last.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: Well, Wolf, thousands of people have now been tested for possible radiation contamination across Britain, but only those two individuals that came into close contact with Alexander Litvinenko have as yet been confirmed as actually being contaminated. The British government makes the point consistently that the risk as far as they're concerned to the general public for contamination is pretty low -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thank you, Matthew. Matthew Chance in London.
Let's get some more on this very important story. Our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joining us.
You had a chance today, Sanjay, to look at this radioactive poison, polonium 210. What did you see?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's remarkable, because remember, this is a high-energy, low-penetration substance. I'm actually holding it there. We're working on a special for Monday night. But you know, we talked so much about the fact that if you ingest it or inhale it, it can be deadly, but as you see, I can hold this in my hand like I am right now, because it really can't even cross the skin, as we've talked about for some time now.
Highly lethal, but only in those two forms, ingested and inhaled.
It exists all around us, Wolf. That's one thing to keep in mind. This is a rare element, but it does exist in natural places, it is naturally occurring. So if you look for it hard enough, you're going to find it, as they do in several places, Wolf.
BLITZER: So what does it do if it gets into your body that potentially could kill you?
GUPTA: Well, what this is, is a very high radiation source. So it does several things. If you swallow it, for example, it gets into your small intestine, and subsequently gets into your liver. You can see the pictures there. When it gets into your liver, that's sort of a clearinghouse for the body. It gets into the blood stream subsequently, and just wreaks havoc throughout the body. It gets in bone marrow, it basically attacks all quickly reproducing cells. So you lose your hair. You become quite nauseated. You start vomiting, you have weight loss. Someone can look like a cancer patient within a couple of weeks of being exposed to something like this because of all those radiation effects, Wolf.
BLITZER: Well, what about those thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands of people, who flew on those British Airways jetliners, that showed some signs, tiny signs of radioactivity? How worried should they be and what should they do?
GUPTA: There is a couple of points about that. First of all, I think primarily, this is a precaution. For the reasons I just outlined for you, Wolf. You saw me holding the stuff in my hand. It would be very hard for it to actually contaminate somebody just by touching it. It just doesn't penetrate the skin, really won't even penetrate a piece of paper. So I think this primarily is a precaution.
The other thing I want to point out is that even flying transnational flights, you get enough radiation on an airplane that's equivalent to a chest X-ray. So there is some radiation that always exists on airplanes. They're looking for it now, Wolf, so I think that they're finding it.
BLITZER: Sanjay, thanks very much. And this note to our viewers: Tune into "ANDERSON COOPER 360" Monday for an in-depth special on the poisoning of the Russian spy. Sanjay will be involved in that as well.
Up ahead, new developments in Mexico's contested presidential election. The swearing in turns into a swearing at.
Plus, our Brian Todd will show you a very candid camera, very candid, designed to scan airline passengers. Is it revealing more than you want it to show? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In this age of heightened terror awareness, what would you be willing to do to stay safe? Right now, there is a new technology, whose goal is to protect you by seeing almost all of you. We turn to CNN's Brian Todd -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, some of the most contentious battles in the war of terror are those fought over the issues of security versus privacy. Well, get ready for another one of those battles at a U.S. airport just in time for the holidays.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): At Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport, the newest weapon in the war on terror that can see through clothes carrying explosives. Already used on more than a million passengers abroad, these special X-rays can catch all kinds of contraband. PETER KANT, RAPISCAN SYSTEMS: Regular weapons, guns, knives, box cutters and the like, but also unusual types of weapons -- explosives, liquid explosives, gels.
TODD: The images will look like this -- outlines of the body, not in detail, but weapons and other items do show up.
This technology has been very controversial, because until recently, it was much more invasive. In August, I went through a so- called backscatter machine. I was advised that if I didn't want my private areas shown, I should put a metal plate in my pants.
I stepped just in front of the machine, turned around. In just a few seconds, the monitor displays my humble contours.
Now, in this test, I'm playing the role of a would-be terrorist. I try to hide a plastic lipstick container in my vest pocket. Busted. I sneak a sports drink bottle. Busted again.
How about wires in a sealed sandwich bag hidden in my sock? On the monitor, they show up on my ankle, but the machines have limitations. When I pour water into a sealed sandwich bag, place it inside my belt line and in a sock, you can barely see it.
But one company behind this technology says trained screeners would detect it, and the Transportation Security Administration says they have other methods to detect liquids.
When this came out, privacy advocates called it a virtual strip search, and they're not much more satisfied with the newer technology.
MARC ROTENBERG, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: Essentially they're putting a digital fig leaf on the image. This protects the image from what the operator will see, but the machine itself can still record all the detail and store that information for use at a later point.
TODD: A TSA official tells CNN there won't be any hard drives to store the images, and says no one will have access to pictures without the so-called fig leaf on them.
From one passenger tested on the older machines...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been through it over in Europe, and I didn't like it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: In Phoenix, an official with the Transportation Security Administration tells us the machine will only be used if more than a metal detector is required, so-called secondary screening, and passengers will then get a choice between those machines and patdowns -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting. Brian, thank you.
Let's go to Jack in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Question this hour is, do you believe nearly all U.S. combat units will be out of Iraq by early 2080? That's expected to be the recommendation next week from the Iraq Study Group.
Paula in Warren, New Jersey, writes, "Yes, but not because Bush has mercy on servicemen and taxpayers. But because without withdrawal, a Republican presidential candidate won't stand a chance."
Ben in Washington: "If Iraq is stable enough, we have no reason to stay beyond 2008. But if Iraq is still plagued by civil and political unrest, then we have to stay until Iraq is better. It's important to remember that how long we stay in Iraq should not be dependent on dates, but on what the state of Iraq is at the time we make the decision."
Brian in British Columbia, "I thought it was stupid to go into Iraq, but I think the last thing the U.S. should do now is pull out. On the contrary, it ought to swamp Iraq with all the troops it can muster."
Michelle in Colorado Springs: "As a former U.S. soldier and now the wife of one, I know there's a very good chance it's all a ploy to shut us all up for a while until the president can find another reason for us to stay until, quote, 'the job is done.' I'll believe it when I see it."
Brian in West Virginia, "Interesting. The Bush administration times its events closely to elections. After we've sacrificed American lives to the war on terror, timed to '02; the war in Iraq, timed to '04; and now troop withdrawal timed to '08. Seems to be an irony here. The problem is, it's come at the cost of American lives, our economy and our respect and image in the rest of the world. I'd like the administration to explain these coincidences to the families who have had children maimed and killed."
And retired Navy Commander Earl Callahan: "You could have said get out in 2018 or even 2028, and the answer would still be no. We're still in Germany after 61 years."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, go to CNN.com/caffertyfile, where you can read some more of these online, Wolf.
BLITZER: Jack, thanks very much. And to our viewers, don't forget, Jack's weekend program, "IN THE MONEY," Saturday, 1:00 p.m., Sunday 3:00 p.m.
Let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf. Just about five minutes from now, we're going to go in depth on a top story you were talking about tonight in homeland security. In the name of fighting terrorism, the government is now keeping score on every traveler who crosses our borders. We're going to see what goes in to figuring out your score. A so-called immigration vigilante, who was sued for taking the law into his own lands. The people he held at gunpoint weren't doing anything wrong. We'll see you at the top of the hour and plenty more. Plus, the latest on that very bizarre poisoning case out of London tonight. Some new developments to talk about, Wolf.
BLITZER: What a story there. Thanks, Paula. See you in a few moments.
Still ahead, right here in THE SITUATION ROOM, democracy in action. The kind of action you might, though, see at a boxing ring. Jeanne Moos won't pull any punches in telling the story.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Inauguration day in Mexico degenerated into a raucous brawl. Jeanne Moos has the play-by-play.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was supposed to be a swearing-in, not a swearing-at, but you can bet some swear words flew, not to mention some chairs and a few punches here on the floor of Mexico's Congress. Hold on to your hat. Hold on to that guy.
This is what happened as the winner of Mexico's disputed presidential election was supposed to take the oath of office, and the opposition tried to spoil his day. The losers whistled, the winners chanted. And all that shoving happened in vivo, live on Mexican TV for all to see.
All this action makes inauguration day in the U.S. seem wimpy.
BUSH: So help me God.
MOOS: U.S. presidents have to contend with, say, a half-naked streaker protesting or an egg tossed at the presidential limousine. They were trying to toss each other at Mexico's inauguration.
The first President Bush was on hand for the Mexican ceremony. And look who else was invited. It's good action, Arnold said, when reporters asked what he thought of the brawling. It was as if Arnold was striding in to terminate the fighting.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: Hasta la vista, baby.
MOOS: As the new Mexican president's motorcade headed for Congress, it bore a striking resemblance to a certain Bronco chase barely escaping a fender bender.
President Felipe Calderon finally entered the building, and quickly took the oath of office. He donned his sash and ordered the podium removed.
Who says democracy is dignified. It looked like moving day at this inauguration.
They managed to sing the national anthem. Then after staying a total of about five minutes, President Calderon was whisked away.
One thing you can say about the Mexican brawl, it was tame compared to the Taiwanese brawl. Or the Russian brawl. What's a little gentle shoving compared to the infamous Czech politician slap.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: See you on "Late Edition," Sunday 11:00 a.m. Let's go to Paula in New York -- Paula.
ZAHN: We'll be looking for you, Wolf. Thanks.
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