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Confirmation Of Robert Gates Approved Unanimously; William Caldwell Discusses Iraq; Abilities Of Iraqi Police Force And Army Sometimes In Doubt; Max Cleland Interview; Fidel Castro Out Of Sight, Fueling Speculation Cuban Transition Is Underway; NYC Bans Trans Fats
Aired December 05, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, is the U.S. winning or losing the war in Iraq?
There's a surprising answer from the next likely defense secretary. Robert Gates first said the U.S. is not winning the war then figures he should clarify what he means. We'll tell you what's going on.
Meanwhile, it wasn't supposed to be this way. The Iraq plan was to include more Iraqis guarding their country from insurgents. Instead, we'll examine how the plan for peace and prosperity is being replaced with chaos and carnage.
And with Fidel Castro ailing and speculation of a transition soaring, is the situation ripe for a U.S.-Cuban relationship review?
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
A blunt assessment of the war in Iraq from the man in line to take charge. The defense secretary nominee, Robert Gates, saying at his confirmation hearing the United States is not wining the war at this point. Later, Gates said he was concerned troops in the field might misunderstand that, and he added that while the U.S. is not winning, it isn't losing either. But he said the status quo is simply unacceptable.
The war taking center stage here in Washington this week with the release tomorrow of the much anticipated report by the Iraq Study Group. Co-chairman and former Secretary of State James Baker had lunch today with President Bush, even as the White House tried to downplay hopes the report will provide a magic bullet to turn around the war.
Our White House correspondent, Ed Henry, is standing by.
But let's begin our coverage this hour with our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie. JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Bob Gates appears to be headed for quick Senate confirmation based on today's Senate confirmation hearing. If it wasn't exactly a love fest, it was, at very least, a like fest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Robert Gates was showered with plaudits for his candor from the senators, especially for his candid admission the U.S. is not currently winning the war.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Your acknowledgement that we're not winning in Iraq, frankly, is a necessary, refreshing breath of reality that is so needed.
MCINTYRE: But after a lunch break, Gates said he wanted to revise his remarks to make clear he didn't think American troops were failing.
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: I certainly stand by my statement this morning that I agreed with General Pace that we are not winning, but we are not losing. And, but I want to make clear that that pertains to the situation in Iraq as a whole.
MCINTYRE: For the most part, Gates navigated the committee's concerns by telling senators what they wanted to hear while avoiding commitment to any specific option for Iraq.
GATES: I'm willing to consider all alternatives.
MCINTYRE: The only thing Gates flatly ruled out was a fixed timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. And he gave a qualified endorsement to ideas outlined by the man he's replacing.
GATES: It seemed to me that some of the options that Secretary Rumsfeld put forward are exactly among those that need to be considered in considering the path forward.
MCINTYRE: But with the benefit of hindsight, Gates criticized Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's initial war plan as flawed.
GATES: There clearly were insufficient troops in Iraq after the initial invasion to establish control over the country.
MCINTYRE: And he broke with Rumsfeld over the overall size of the U.S. military, agreeing it might be too small.
GATES: Then I'm very open to the possibility of an increase in the end strength.
MCINTYRE: But Gates' biggest promise was to listen and to be an independent voice.
GATES: Senator, I am not giving up the president -- the presidency of Texas A&M, the job that I've probably enjoyed more than any that I've ever had, making considerable personal financial sacrifice and, frankly, going through this process, to come back to Washington to be a bump on a log and not to say exactly what I think.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Gates says if confirmed, his first move will go to Iraq to meet with U.S. commanders. And he says perhaps they'll be more candid with him as defense secretary as they were when he was just a member of the Iraq Study Group -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, stand by for a second.
And it's unanimous -- we just heard from the chairman, the outgoing chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, John Warner, the confirmation of Robert Gates has been approved unanimously. In fact, we may have that sound right now.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: We have just concluded a full session today, beginning at 9:30. And we're very pleased to announce, we have just concluded our vote. And so far as we know, 21 senators were present, all unanimous.
It's interesting, I recognized Senator Byrd for the purpose of moving the nomination of Mr. Gates, and I seconded the nomination. And thereafter, by a record vote, they were all "aye."
I think America got a good look at this extraordinary nominee and America can, I think, take the confidence that he's going to be a very strong adviser to the president of the United States and to the Congress and in his heart is only the bits of this country and the men and women of the armed forces.
BLITZER: There he is, John Warner, announcing that the Senate Armed Services Committee unanimously has voted in favor, favor of Robert Gates to be the next secretary of defense.
The vote now goes to the full Senate. We expect that vote tomorrow, also a lopsided vote anticipated.
Gates' assessment, though, that the United States is not necessarily winning the war in Iraq puts him at odds with the man who nominated him. That would be President Bush. And the confirmation hearings, combined with the report by the Iraq Study Group, due out tomorrow morning, is putting added pressure on the president, whose legacy now largely rests on this war.
Let's turn to our White House correspondent, Ed Henry, for more -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the White House will obviously be thrilled that Robert Gates has now cleared the first hurdle in this confirmation process. But those unvarnished opinions that he promised and delivered upon at that Senate hearing already putting the White House in an uncomfortable position.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Suggest, is number one, I know that you want to pit a fight between Bob Gates and the president. It doesn't exist. Read the full testimony and you'll see.
The second thing is that it is really important to realize that there's a lot of stuff going on.
HENRY (voice-over): A White House thrown on the defensive by a defense secretary nominee who's not always reading from the same talking points as the president.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We are not winning the war in Iraq, is that correct?
GATES: That is my view, yes, sir.
MCCAIN: And the stat -- therefore, the status quo is not acceptable?
GATES: That is correct, sir.
HENRY: At a press conference two weeks before the mid-term elections, the president gave the opposite answer when asked if the U.S. is winning in Iraq.
GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Absolutely, we're winning.
HENRY: Tony Snow insisted that in his broader answers, Robert Gates was on the same page as the president.
SNOW: He proceeded to talk about the very challenges the president has been discussing in terms of developing capability on the Iraqi side in order to have an Iraq that can sustain, govern and defend itself. So what you may have are two guys who are looking at different definitions.
I don't know and I don't want to try to read their minds.
HENRY: But reading the tea leaves on the Iraq Study Group's report, due out Wednesday, has become sport in Washington.
SNOW: Let's just wait and see what happens. I think the idea, this narrative of somehow somebody challenging the administration, that, I don't think, is the attitude of the people who are involved here. This is not an insurgency, it is a commission.
HENRY: Leaders in both parties are trying to prod the White House into using the report and the Gates' testimony as springboards for a change in course.
WARNER: I'm optimistic. I feel confident that the president and his team will take into consideration that report.
LEVIN: I think Dr. Gates' comments were even clearer than what the press reports, in terms of the Iraq Study Group, in terms of the need to not only consider all options, but to change direction in Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now, the president and James Baker had lunch alone today here at the White House, a courtesy heads up about this report. Tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. the president will be briefed by all 10 members of the Iraq Study Group. But he will not be officially reacting to the recommendations. He wants a few weeks to weigh this against the other reports he's going to be getting from his own administration.
And, also, CNN has learned that, in fact, the Iraq Study Group has made arrangements for a secure teleconference tomorrow with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki. They'll brief him and he'll weigh in, as well -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And then on Thursday, the president receives the British prime minister, Tony Blair, to presumably consult with his top ally on Iraq on what to do next.
HENRY: That's right. And then they'll have a press conference together, as well, Thursday morning here at the White House. And you can bet they'll both be pushing back together about their own views on the way forward in Iraq -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Ed, for that.
Let's go to Jack Cafferty in New York for "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, mercifully, Wolf, our very lame duck Congress is limping to a close this week. The incoming Democratic leadership promises an ambitious agenda, a big to do list for the 110th Congress when it convenes January 4th. But there are already distractions. There are incidents of some infighting among the Democrats and a lot of talk about the 2008 presidential race.
Almost 10 percent of the Senate wants to be president. At least six Democrats, three Republicans thinking about throwing their hats in the ring. The possible candidates include Senators Joe Biden of Delaware, Chris Dodd of Connecticut, John Kerry of Massachusetts. These three are all in line to be committee chairmen in the new Congress.
So have you to wonder what will get the priority, doing the public's business, or running for president?
I think I know the answer.
Senators Hillary Clinton, Evan Bayh also exploring 2008 bids. They'll be in charge of two Senate subcommittees. The same potential problems.
And two House Republicans also rumored to be considering presidential runs, as well.
The question is this -- will lawmakers who are considering a 2008 presidential bid wind up hurting the 110th Congress? E-mail your thoughts on that to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Jack, for that.
Jack Cafferty, we'll be back with you shortly.
Up ahead, Defense Secretary nominee Robert Gates says the U.S. is not winning the war in Iraq. I'll talk about his controversial testimony with a former member of the Armed Services Committee and Vietnam veteran, that former senator being Max Cleland.
Also, serious new questions about Fidel Castro's health and U.S. plans for Cuba after his demise. Our State Department correspondent, Zain Verjee, standing by with details.
And a first in the nation -- New York City approving a sweeping ban that will impact just about everyone who eats out in the Big Apple. We'll tell you what's going on in New York and maybe elsewhere around the country, as well.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on our top story, Senate hearings for President Bush's pick to be the next secretary of defense. And only within the past few minutes we learned from the chairman, John Warner, that Robert Gates was unanimously confirmed to be the secretary of defense by members of the Senate Armed Services Committee 21-0. That's the vote in committee, a unanimous vote.
That vote now goes to the Senate floor, tomorrow, presumably, for a final confirmation. He will then be sworn in. Donald Rumsfeld will no longer be secretary of defense once that swearing in ceremony takes place.
Gates offered some very, very candid comments today.
What do people, though, who could be soon working for him think of those words?
Joining us now from Baghdad, Major General William Caldwell, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq.
General Caldwell, thanks very much for coming in on this, the day that Robert Gates is going through his questioning as the incoming secretary of defense.
Listen to this exchange he had with Senator Carl Levin, who is the incoming chairman of the Armed Services Committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Do you believe that we are currently winning in Iraq?
GATES: no, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Very blunt talk from Robert Gates. In fact, Levin later saying it's a refreshing breath of reality.
What do you say to that?
Your new boss saying you're not winning?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ: What I did say is that we've all recognized that we need to adjust our strategy over here right now, that it has not achieved the end results that we had expected to by this time. And General Casey has got us on a program. We're looking at it real hard and we've already begun-to implement some aspects of it.
BLITZER: I know that there's immediate concern that when the incoming secretary of defense is saying that the United States is not winning in Iraq, that could have a morale impact on the 140,000, 150,000 U.S. troops who are there right now.
Is that an issue that could come up?
CALDWELL: Well, I think most of our troops understand that they're going to stay focused here on the ground on what they're doing day to day. They're going to listen to their military leaders over here, who are going to tell them to keep at the job, keep giving it 110 percent, like they are, and we'll remain committed to accomplish what we're achieving over here right now.
Obviously, everybody wants to be part of a winning team. And that's why we've worked very hard at constantly looking at and revising our strategy so we can ultimately achieve the end state that both the Iraqis want to get and that we want to achieve together.
BLITZER: Now, the outgoing defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, had a memo that he wrote early in November, November 6th, in which he said something similar, although he certainly didn't go as far as Robert Gates. He said, "In my view, it is time for a major adjustment. Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough."
Now, he wrote that in a classified, secret memo to the president. But he and the president, the vice president, they were making very different kinds of statements, at least in public.
Here's the question to you.
Is the U.S. military -- or was the U.S. military aware of what Rumsfeld was writing in private?
CALDWELL: Well, obviously over here at this level I was not at all, what he was writing in private. But I do know that we have been continuously reviewing our strategy, our tactics, our techniques ever since I arrived here over eight months ago. And so that's an ongoing process we do. We continually re-evaluate and I know recently we've been looking at some very significant changes that General Casey has had us working.
BLITZER: And I know that you've got a time line in mind for the Iraqis to take charge, over the next, what, year or so?
Give us a sense of when you think the Iraqi military will be able to take charge.
CALDWELL: Well, obviously what the prime minister has requested from the president here in their meeting in Jordan was he wants to take charge by next summer and we're moving, putting everything in place to help accelerate that movement so that we can support what the prime minister has asked of our president in accomplishing that.
And then, of course, the next thing he wanted was to assume greater provincial Iraqi control, where the governors take control of their 18 provinces. And he wants to do that by the fall time frame. And so we're moving forward, too, on an accelerated pace to facilitate that happening, too.
BLITZER: The -- Robert Gates, the incoming defense secretary, he was also blunt in responding to Senator John McCain, who's wanted thousands of additional troops to be deployed to Iraq. And he was -- and he was asked, Gates, by McCain, whether there had been enough troops deployed to Iraq after the downfall of Saddam.
Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GATES: There clearly were insufficient troops in Iraq after the initial invasion to establish control over the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He said when he went there in recent months with the Iraq Study Group, commanders on the ground said that they did have enough troops right now.
But what's your sense? Do you have enough troops on the ground to accomplish your mission, General Caldwell?
CALDWELL: Wolf, what I'll tell you is we have enough troops to accomplish the mission that we stated we're going to achieve. If you add more troops, there is no question you're going to have a short- term effect. It will enhance security in the short-term. But it won't create a long-term solution.
And so our solution is let's continue to work to develop the additional Iraqi security forces that the prime minister wants to add, let's get them online, let's get them trained and equipped. And if we need additional forces, that's where they'll come from, from the Iraqis.
BLITZER: We've got to leave it there, General. You've got a tough mission ahead of you, and there's going to be some major changes. We'll watch it unfold together with you.
Thanks very much.
CALDWELL: All right, Wolf, thank you very much.
BLITZER: All right.
And coming up here, a lot more on the confirmation hearings; also, the Iraq Study Group coming out with its report tomorrow.
Also, planning for Cuba without Fidel Castro -- there are new questions about his health. We're going to show you what the U.S. is planning to do immediately following his death.
Plus, a new study just out about cell phones and cancer. We're going to have details of a story important to millions of us.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's check back with Mary Snow for another closer look at some of the other stories making news -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Saddam Hussein is calling his genocide trial a "mockery" and wants to skip further sessions of the proceedings. In a letter to the judge, the former Iraqi leader complains that he and his attorneys he has not been able to -- he has not been allowed to speak -- and he says they've been repeatedly and intentionally insulted by the court. The current trial involves charges stemming from alleged mass killings of Kurds in 1988.
The USS Intrepid is no longer stuck in the muck. New York's floating military museum was finally towed away from its moorings and out into the Hudson River this morning. It was the first time in 24 years that the retired aircraft carrier had been on the water. Thick sludge around the hull prevented an attempt to move it last month. Now the Intrepid is anchored in Bayonne, New Jersey. It will undergo a $60 million renovation.
And there's good news for cell phone users. A new Danish study just released in the past hour provides what some are calling the clearest evidence yet that cell phones do not cause cancer. Researchers tracked about 420,000 Danish cell phone users and found no increased risk for the disease -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Mary, thank you for that.
We'll get back to you very soon.
Coming up, an inside look at Iraq's security forces -- are they willing to stand up to the task of securing their country? And can they?
U.S. officers in Iraq speaking out candidly right now.
And I'll speak about the war with former U.S. Senator Max Cleland. He's a Vietnam War veteran and he sat on the Armed Services Committee.
What does he make of Defense Secretary nominee Robert Gates?
I'll ask him.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, the Senate Armed Services Committee has just unanimously approved the nomination of Robert Gates to become the next secretary of defense. That word coming just about a half an hour or so ago. At his hearing, Gates made a blunt assessment, saying the U.S. is not winning the war in Iraq at this point. He later added that the U.S. is not losing, either, but stated flatly that the status quo is unacceptable.
Also, Russian officials drawing a line in the sand with British investigators on the case of that former Russian spy poisoned with radiation. Moscow's top prosecutor now saying any Russian suspects in the case will not be extradited to Britain, but will be questioned and even tried at home. He says that's required under Russian law.
And Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana is the latest Democrat to test the presidential waters. He's filed paperwork to form an exploratory committee. He told me here in the SITUATION ROOM in the last hour he can't compare himself to other potential candidates, but he says he's the one who can unite all Americans to move the country forward.
I'm Wolf Blitzer and You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Before the Iraq invasion, the United States planned its work. Yet many believe it didn't have the right plan. Whether or not the U.S. sent enough troops to establish order was among the questions asked today of Robert Gates. The Defense Secretary nominee said the U.S. did not.
That and other presumed missteps have many now looking at the planned vision for Iraq versus the current realities.
Our Ben Wedeman has more from Baghdad.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, regardless of the results of the Iraq Study Group, obviously the success of the Iraqi Army and police are going to be instrumental to the success of the U.S. mission here in Iraq.
And the abilities of the police force and the army here are sometimes in doubt. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): This is how it's supposed to happen -- Iraqi soldiers capturing insurgents, wresting peace and stability from the chaos that is Iraq today. But this is just a drill.
More than three-and-a-half years after the U.S.-led invasion, the Iraqi Army and police are supposed to be increasingly taking the lead while American forces provide backup.
UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: And we're here to support you in your checkpoints. If you get attacked or you have a suspected terrorist coming through your checkpoints, we're here to support you.
WEDEMAN: But the performance of Iraqi security forces has, at best, been mixed. The Iraqi police have failed to establish basic order, despite billions of dollars and millions of man hours spent on training. And the police force is widely believed to be infiltrated by the insurgents and militias and plagued by widespread corruption.
The army has fared only slightly better, suffering from high levels of desertion and lacking strong leadership. With many U.S. troops frustrated by what sometimes appears to be a lack of motivation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They didn't do too much work yesterday, they didn't do too much work the day before. They haven't done too much work since they've been here.
WEDEMAN: The bipartisan Iraq Study Group and other reviews ongoing in Washington are trying to address these many shortcomings. But it will be an uphill battle in a country where the best laid plans have a way of going terribly wrong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Wolf, some military analysts say the real problem is not with the Iraqi army or the police, the real problem is with the government which is already so divided between rival sectarian groups and parties that it simply can't provide the leadership to bring Iraq back from the brink of chaos -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ben Wedeman reporting for us from Baghdad. Thanks, Ben.
My next guest has been very critical of the Bush administration's handling of the war in Iraq. Max Cleland is a Vietnam War Veteran, former Democratic Senator from Georgia. Senator, thanks very much for coming in.
MAX CLELAND (D), FORMER SENATOR: Thank you.
BLITZER: I want to you listen to these two sound bytes, one from the president just before the election and one from Robert Gates today before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Listen to these two clips. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're winning and we will win. Unless we leave before the job is done.
LEVIN: Do you believe that we are currently winning in Iraq?
GATES: No, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, the White House Press Secretary Tony Snow says that there really is no disconnect between the president and the incoming secretary of defense. How do you square those two sound bytes?
CLELAND: You can't. Gates is right. The president's wrong. The truth of the matter is this has been a disaster from the beginning. Gates also said that there was not enough troops going in to secure the country. That's absolutely correct. I can remember when I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee we had General Shinseki before us and he said it would take hundreds of thousands of troops if you invaded Iraq to take Saddam Hussein out.
It was also General Hugh Shelton, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he said if you take out Saddam Hussein and the Kurds and the Shiites and the Sunnis will fight each other like banshee chickens. That's exactly what's going on now. So there were never enough troops committed to secure the country.
And quite frankly, the strategy has been just to hold on and hope that the Iraqis pull things together. The truth of the matter is, we're not only losing, we're losing good young men and women. We've had almost 3,000 killed, some 25,000 wounded, half of which remain for life. It is time for an exit strategy. This is the right moment.
With a new secretary of defense, with a new study, and God knows we don't need any more studies after four year's of war, quite frankly. But this is a right moment to put together an exit strategy and move out of Iraq, move our ground forces out of Iraq and begin to concentrate on the real problem, which is al Qaeda that's morphing into some 60 different countries.
BLITZER: All right, I want to get to that in a moment. But you've raised the issue of Robert Gates acknowledging that the U.S. did not have enough troops at the start of this war. Here's what he told Senator John McCain when asked about this sensitive issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GATES: There clearly were insufficient troops in Iraq after the initial invasion to establish control over the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now, that's clearly criticism of his predecessor, Donald Rumsfeld, who a lot of his critics thought that Rumsfeld wanted to win this war on the cheap.
CLELAND: Exactly. Rumsfeld wanted to go in with 130,000 troops. That's what he convinced the president to do. And quite frankly, it was General Shinseki that argued for 500,000 troops. He was fired. It was General Tommy Franks that argued in the first briefing in Crawford, Texas for 500,000 troops. He was denied that. So we've been paying the costs ever since.
It is now time, at this moment, this moment of truth, as anyone would put it, to exit, to get our ground forces out of Iraq, begin to bring our guard and reserve home and guard our own country and move on to al Qaeda. I mentioned -- I found out today that the American three-star general now leaving Afghanistan says he needs more troops. So where does this stop? We've got to pull ourselves out of Iraq and the sooner the better.
BLITZER: That's General Eikenberry in Afghanistan, he says there are not enough U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan dealing with that deteriorating situation right now. I never could understand myself, having covered the first Gulf War, why the U.S. deployed a half million troops to liberate a small country like Kuwait, yet decided to go into Iraq with what, 150,000 or so U.S. troops. That clearly didn't make a whole lot of sense going into this war.
CLELAND: You really put your finger on it Wolf. And not many people know this, but that's really what's happened here. General Colin Powell and General Schwarzkopf, Vietnam veterans, they understood you do have to apply the power doctrine and that is go in with superior force and end the war and end it quickly, therefore you save lives.
You go in with inadequate force, and no real strategy to take beyond just taking out Saddam Hussein, and you got 27 million Iraqis you've got to deal with. Now they're turning on us. It's not so much that the Iraqis can't stand up their own operation. It's that we are there as a thumb in their eye and they won't stand up for their own operation until we leave.
BLITZER: So, senator, let's look ahead. What do you want Gates and the president to do right now? They'll read the Iraq Study Group report tomorrow, about 100 pages. But what would you have them do?
CLELAND: Within the first 90 days tell the military to put together an exit strategy out of Iraq. You have to have an orderly strategic withdrawal and that is exactly what we need of our ground forces out of Iraq. It doesn't mean we withdraw diplomatically. Matter of fact, we put an emphasis on diplomacy, on working with our allies, with NATO, with the UN, with the Security Council, to help stabilize the area as best we can, because the problem there ultimately is a political one.
Every military man that has really come out of Iraq, including many generals that led divisions there, say this is not winnable militarily because ultimately, it's not a military solution that real work, it's a diplomatic and political solution. WOLF: But as you know senator, the president says if you do that kind of precipitous withdrawal with an artificial timeline it would create chaos and it would guarantee a defeat for the United States?
CLELAND: We have a defeat on our hands now. We've got chaos now. See, that gives the lie to the existing policy. We've been there for almost four years. And here's the new guy, the new secretary of defense presumably who says it ain't working and we didn't go in with the proper strategy and enough force. That's right.
BLITZER: Is it too late to do what Senator McCain or Senator Lindsey Graham or Senator John Cornyn want to dispatch another 50,000 troops to bolster the current U.S. military presence?
CLELAND: Yes, it's way too late. It's way too late. This is Vietnam 1967, '68. This is Westmoreland asking for 50,000 more troops, 100,000 more troops, 50,000, 100,000 more troops is not the answer, because the answer ultimately is not a military one. It is not, as General Shelton used to say when he was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the American military is a great hammer but every problem in the world is not necessarily a nail.
This is not necessarily a nail that we're dealing with in Iraq. It is a question of age-old entities between religious factions and a 5,000-year history in that Arab part of the world. And we're not going to be able to solve that. We can take our policy and our future and our security in our own hands and develop our own exit strategy that works for us and helps us bolster our forces in Afghanistan and deal with crisis in Iran and North Korea.
BLITZER: We're all out of time but a very quick political question. Any chances you'll challenge Senator Saxby Chambliss in Georgia for your old senate seat?
CLELAND: No, I'm not interested in going back to the Senate. I'm interested in working with you on CNN.
BLITZER: Thanks very much senator for that. That sounds like a pretty hard and fast statement. We'll definitely have you back here on CNN right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
CLELAND: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Senator Max Cleland joining us.
Still to come, with Fidel Castro ailing, some saying a transition is nearing. Could Cuba be ready to talk things over? And in our 7:00 p.m. eastern hour, they're the kind of tears only a proud father could cry. Former President George Bush completely choked up. We're going to tell you what happened and why. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There are growing questions about the health of Cuban President Fidel Castro after he failed to appear at a military parade this weekend that was also a celebration of his 80th birthday. Those questions about his health are leading to new questions about Cuba's future. For some answers, we're joined by our State Department correspondent, Zain Verjee -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Cuban leader Fidel Castro has been out of sight for over a month, fueling speculation that the transition in Cuba is already under way.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): For his own 80th birthday party he was a no-show.
SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I can only assume that it would have to be a quite serious condition to have him miss that.
VERJEE: El Commandante clearly looks unwell in these recent pictures. Still recovering from surgery in July for intestinal bleeding.
ALINA FERNANDEZ, EXILED DAUGHTER OF FIDEL CASTRO: He looked very weak and it's my understanding that the family asked him to stay peacefully resting.
VERJEE: No one knows exactly what's wrong with him. The guess is, its cancer. The official line, he's on the mend. Today, Cuba's communist newspaper published a message allegedly from Castro congratulating his close friend Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on his reelection victory.
But he was nowhere to be found at Cuba's first major military parade in a decade, once again fueling speculation that the end is near. Instead, the spotlight was on his 75-year-old brother Raul. He's been holding down the fort since July. Raul Castro didn't dwell on his brother at the parade, but he did make headlines by offering an olive branch to the U.S.
RAUL CASTRO, FIDEL CASTRO'S BROTHER: This is the opportunity to once again state our availability to solve through negotiations the prolonged difference between the United States and Cuba.
VERJEE: But the State Department isn't interested in talking until all Cubans can vote in free elections.
MCCORMACK: Quite clearly there is some sort of transition under way. We don't think it should be from one dictator to another. We think that the Cuban people deserve the right to define what their future would be for them.
VERJEE: The Bush administration issued a report this summer on its plan for a Cuba without Castro. That report calls for U.S. advisers on the ground within weeks to train police and judges for democratic elections on the island. A larger role for Cuban exiles and in the meantime, a new $18 million democracy fund to bolster opposition to Castro in Cuba.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: But officials point out that this aid package really depends on a transitional government in Cuba that asks the U.S. for help. No one expects Raul Castro to do that -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Zain, thank you for that. Zain's our State Department correspondent. The FBI says overall in its antiquated computer systems it's critical to preventing future terrorist attacks. The last attempt was a bust scrapping the project after three years and $170 million. So how's the newest system progressing? Let's turn to Jacki Schechner for the latest. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, the computer system is called Sentinel and a new audit of it is generally promising. The FBI is going to use this new computer system in order to help it communicate within its own offices and with other federal agencies. You might remember after 9/11 a lot of federal agencies were criticized for not having the systems in place to help them connect the dots.
Now again, while the audit is generally promising, the office of the inspector general does say there may be some future funding issues. And Senator Patrick Leahy, the Vermont Democrat who's the incoming chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee has expressed some specific concern about a $57 million part of this project. The FBI says that the $57 million have long been accounted for and are not an issue. Now the entire bill for the project is $425 million. It's not going to be fully implemented until December of 2009 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thanks for that. Up ahead, attention Trans fat. You're not welcome in New York City restaurants any longer. We're going to tell you about a first of its kind move against an item that makes foods taste apparently so tasty, yet, not very healthy.
And in the public interest or in their personal interest, Jack Cafferty wants to know if members of Congress considering a run for the White House will spend more time running the country or running their potential campaigns. Jack with your e-mail, all that coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Lou Dobbs getting ready for his program that begins in a few minutes right at the top of the hour. He's going to give us a preview of what's coming up -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf thank you. Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, we'll be reporting on a new assault on American workers and their families. Another all-American company exporting thousands of middle class jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
Also tonight, an astonishing admission by our Homeland Security Department, saying that the United States has effective control of just about 15 percent of our border with Mexico. And get this, the Homeland Security Department now says they can't define what control of our borders really means. We'll explore that tonight. And chaos in Iraq, three more of our troops have been killed. The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee Duncan Hunter joins us. He met with President Bush today.
I'll also be talking with former peace envoy Senator George Mitchell. And the incoming chairman of the House Intelligence Committee as well, Sylvester Reyes will be joining us. We hope you will as well. Wolf, all of that and more coming up at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN. Back to you.
BLITZER: All right, Lou, thanks very much, we'll be watching. Lou heading off to my hometown of Buffalo, New York, later in the week for a town hall meeting, Thursday night, 7:00 p.m., you're going to want to see that.
Meanwhile, a bold move by New York City's board of health is leaving a bad taste in some people's mouths. It's voted to ban trans fats in all food service establishments in the city. Let's turn to CNN's Mary Snow once again for details -- Mary.
SNOW: Well, Wolf, it's an unprecedented ban and it will affect all of the city's 24,000 restaurants from the most elite to corner pizzerias. By July, restaurants will have to phase out frying oils with artificial Trans fats. Within 18 months, they must stop using all foods containing it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): A ruling on how French fries are cooked or cupcakes are baked may not seem like a big deal, but a vote by the New York City Board of Health to ban artificial trans fats at restaurants and other food service establishments could blaze a path for the rest of the country. The restaurant industry is not happy and says the city shouldn't have the final say on what's allowed in kitchens.
SHEILA WEISS, NATIONAL RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION: I don't feel that a municipal health agency should have the power to ban a product that FDA has already approved.
SNOW: While it's not a banned product, health officials say Trans fats have been linked to heart disease. They're often found in things like cooking oils and shortening. One reason they're used, they help foods last longer. But nutritionists say the harm outweighs the benefits.
CATHY NONAS, DIETITIAN NORTH GENERAL HOSPITAL: This is like lead in paint. This is like smoking in restaurants. These Trans fats are bad for your health.
SNOW: And some businesses have learned products that are bad for your health could be bad for business, big chains embracing and adapting their cooking far beyond New York. Wendy's, for example, says it's cut out cooking oil with Trans fats. The company that owns Taco Bell and Kentucky Fried Chicken says it took two years to find a substitute. JONATHAN BLUM, YUM BRANDS, INC.: It's hard to find substitutes that taste great and so that's the first issue. We wanted to find something that was finger lickin' good for KFC and we were able to do so with the new oil that we switched to.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now restaurants also say a switch away from Trans fats will cost more. They worry about supplies of alternatives. In at least one city, and that's Chicago, has been considering limiting the use of Trans fats. Some say it's only a matter of time before other cities follow suit -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll see if New York sets the stage for the rest of the country. Thanks, Mary for that.
Up next, will lawmakers who are considering a run for the White House, and there are a lot of them, be distracted from the public's interest in the next Congress? Jack with your e-mail right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: She helped wrestle power from her political opponents. And for it, will earn a first of its kind place in history. Now, she could receive another distinction few people have earned.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY PELOSI: Let the healing begin.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making history in the halls of Congress as Democrats take the reins of leadership. The soon to be Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi ushers in a new chapter on Capitol Hill. Should Pelosi be named "Time" magazine's person of the year?
JANICE SIMPSON, TIME ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR: You could say that she held as much as anyone did, I suppose, the Democrats together. And everybody knows what a rambunctious, infectious group Democrats can be.
PELOSI: Thank you all very much.
SIMPSON: Becoming the first female speaker is a landmark.
PELOSI: It's really lovely.
NATHAN THORNBURGH, TIME CORRESPONDENT: Pelosi's greatest strength has been her ability to keep the troops in line. I think Democrats are very surprised around the country at what they can actually reap when they sew discipline in their own party. That has really been one of her greatest strengths. However, just by being who she is. That is, the first female Speaker of the House, she is creating history in a way that it cannot be ignored.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: "Time's" person of the year by the way will be announced right here on CNN on December 16th, 8:00 p.m. eastern. Let's go to Jack Cafferty in New York. Jack?
CAFFERTY: Makes you kind of quiver with anticipation, doesn't it Wolf?
BLITZER: I'm excited.
CAFFERTY: Our question this hour is will lawmakers considering a 2008 presidential run wind up hurting the 110th Congress when it begins its work in January?
Jesse writes from Ponca City, Oklahoma, "I think it will help the Congress although by accident. The 110th Congress knows they only got here because America was fed up with the 109th, and they damn sure better do what they say they will."
Joe in Texas writes, "Congress is a full time job, it's either fish or cut bait. In other words, if you want to devote your time to a presidential run, then get out of Congress."
Troy writes in Ontario, "No they won't hurt the Congress, their potential aspirations will force them to consider issues in a broader scope, not just their immediate constituents. They'll need to demonstrate a strong record in Congress in order to fuel a presidential run. I think you'll see the diverse ideas and a more balanced solution for the challenges that lie ahead."
Lonnie writes from Baltimore, "Are these potential candidates really talking about '08 as much as you say, or are you lot in the media forcing the distraction with your incessant questioning about it? I suspect if the media would stop talking about '08 already, so will the politicians. I'm sick of hearing about it." We've got to talk about something Lonnie, it's a three hour show.
Lace in Delaware writes, "I have to say I like having a high- ranking senator representing us, but most Delawareans haven't seen Joe Biden in Delaware in years and they're not sure what he's done for us lately."
And Jerry writes from Kentucky, "It's a great idea for more and more of our Congress leaders to run for president. They can do less damage to the country if they're all out on the campaign trail." If you didn't see your email here you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile, read more of these online. A lot of senators would like to be president. The last one we elected was Jack Kennedy. It doesn't happen very often, Wolf.
BLITZER: You know what the senators say, they wake up every morning, they look in the mirror and what do they see? A future president of the United States.
CAFFERTY: Let's hope not.
BLITZER: At least in their own eyes Jack. See you back here in an hour. Remember, we're in THE SITUATION ROOM weekday afternoons, 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. eastern, back at 7:00 p.m. for another hour. Until then, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington, let's go to Lou Dobbs, he's in New York -- Lou.
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