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Announcement Of New Plan For Iraq Postponed; Early Morning Bombing Targeted Baghdad's Most Needy Day Laborers; Does Israel Have Nuclear Weapons?; Peter Galbraith Interview; Hillary Clinton Re- releasing "It Takes a Village" To Mark 10th Anniversary; Jay Bakker Gets Reality Series
Aired December 12, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, despite consultations in Washington and devastation in Baghdad, the plan for Iraq will simply have to wait. The White House says it's just not ready yet.
But with Iraqis and Americans dying every day, some say the time for action is now.
Also, does Israel have nuclear capabilities?
That highly secret issue now openly discussed after the Israeli prime minister makes what some are calling a nuclear admission.
Might it help Israel's enemies?
And he's covered in tattoos. He's fine being called a punk and he wants you to attend his church in a bar. The son of Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker -- we'll tell you about his one of a kind mission.
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Announcement of a new plan for Iraq postponed, even as the violence reaches deadly new levels. At least 71 people are killed in a coordinated car and truck suicide bombing in Baghdad. More than 200 injured, many of them poor day laborers who were lined up simply looking for some work.
Meanwhile, the U.S. military is now reporting the deaths of five more Americans in Iraq, including three Marines killed in combat in the Al Anbar Province yesterday.
All this happening as the White House says that announcement for a new policy for Iraq is now being delayed until January. President Bush was expected to lay out a new course for the war some time before Christmas.
Let's go straight to our White House correspondent, Ed Henry -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's been almost a week since the Baker-Hamilton Commission told the president the situation in Iraq was "grave and deteriorating," that the clock was ticking. But today, Mr. Bush decided he needs more time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): Under increasing pressure to reshape his war policy, the president consulted with Iraq's vice president, a key Sunni leader who's seen his own brother and sister killed by sectarian violence.
GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In spite of his grief and in spite of the pain in his heart, he is willing to work for a united Iraq and a peaceful Iraq.
HENRY: But the president refused to discuss why he's decided to scrap initial plans to reveal a new Iraq policy by Christmas, a reversal that adds to the picture of a beleaguered White House groping for answers.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That is not going to happen until the new year. We do not know when, so I can't give you a date, I can't give you a time, I can't give you a place, I can't give you the way in which it will happen. So all those questions are yet to be answered.
HENRY: But it was the White House staff that had set the expectations of a December announcement, so the delay only sparked more questions.
During a secure videoconference with the president Tuesday, did military commanders urge a change?
SNOW: No. No. No. The president is the commander-in-chief. He issues orders. It is -- he decided that, frankly, there -- it's not ready yet.
HENRY: Snow denied one theory, that the president is just waiting until after the holidays to announce he's sending even more troops to Iraq. But the press secretary seemed to give credence to another possibility...
BUSH: But I'm the decider...
HENRY: ... that perhaps the president is taking his time so any momentum for the Baker-Hamilton Report fades and he can chart his own course.
SNOW: And the touchstone is not the Baker-Hamilton Commission. It's the situation in Iraq. And it's the situation in the region. That is the touchstone.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HENRY: Now, the president has all but rejected the key Baker- Hamilton recommendation, getting most, if not all, combat troops out of Iraq by early 2008. And, in fact, some people close to the deliberations have told CNN the president seems to be actively considering sending more troops to Iraq, as Senator John McCain has called for.
But just a couple of moments ago, I spoke directly to Tony Snow, the White House spokesman. He insisted that he basically just cannot confirm or deny any of that speculation right now. Tony Snow saying they're not worried about a timetable for deciding this, the key is to get it right -- Wolf.
BLITZER: These are literally life and death issues on the president's agenda right now.
Ed, thanks for that.
Meanwhile, in Iraq, a trap laid with simply ghastly intentions. A man tells a group of desperate day laborers he has some work for them, lures them in then slaughters them all.
Details from our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, in Baghdad -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it was a massive blast. It came early in the morning. It could be felt more than a mile away. It shook some people out of their beds.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): This brutal early morning bombing targeting Baghdad's most needy -- day workers desperate for an income to feed their families. So powerful the blast, it could be felt more than a mile away. So cynical the suicide bomber, according to witnesses, he called out he had jobs to offer.
"He collected people who were innocent and in need of money," this man explains. "And then he exploded the coach."
Almost 450 pounds of explosives packed into a vehicle. More than 71 dead, more than 220 wounded. Possibly a sectarian attack. Many of the victims believed to be Shias, who are among Iraq's poorest, least educated and the most likely to be unemployed.
Estimates variously put unemployment at one in five to over one half the population. According to U.S. general, Peter Chiarelli, Iraq's stagnating economy is killing his soldiers and Iraqis alike. So the key to stopping the violence, he says, is creating more jobs.
LT. GEN. PETER CHIARELLI, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ: Things are critical to this -- to the level of security and the level of -- lowering the levels of violence you have in the country. I just don't understand how anybody can argue with the fact that a man or a woman is much less likely to want to join a militia if they have a job to go to every day. ROBERTSON: Chiarelli, already at the end of his second tour in Iraq, is getting ready to hand over to his successor. He says few people back home seem to get the importance of fixing Iraq's economy, which frustrates him.
CHIARELLI: I wish we had had more assistance in those areas.
ROBERTSON (on camera): The economic areas?
CHIARELLI: Yes, in the economic areas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: A recent poll of Iraqis suggested that a similar conclusion. When asked how to get rid of insurgent and militia guns, most said the best way was to swap them for jobs. And unusually for a military mission, the DOD has a small team in Iraq at the moment trying to figure out how to stimulate the job market.
There is no quick fix. It will require massive investment and a significant restructuring of Iraq's centralized economy -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson on the scene for us in Baghdad.
Nic, thanks very much.
And we're going to be talking a lot more about this in only a few minutes with Ambassador Peter Galbraith. He's the author of an important book entitled "The End of Iraq." He says the country has already split across sectarian lines and the U.S. should take the goal of a unified Iraq simply off the table.
This is an important interview. You're going to want to see this.
Turning now to a secret matter now being openly discussed -- whether or not Israel has nuclear weapons. Some say that's now been answered by a slip of the lip by the Israeli prime minister himself.
CNN's Ben Wedeman has the story -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it is perhaps the worst kept secret in the Middle East.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Ambiguity has always been Israel's response to questions about whether or not it has nuclear weapons. But in an interview with German TV, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert didn't sound so ambiguous.
EHUD OLMERT, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map.
Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?
WEDEMAN: Were his words a slip of the tongue or a blunt message for Iran that Israel has its own well developed nuclear program?
Olmert's spokeswoman says the quote is being taken out of context. But the fallout at home from his comments is intense.
SILVAN SHALOM, FORMER ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, we are trying to work very hard to impose sanctions on the Iranians. While we believe the Iranians are threatening the stability of the entire world, asking this statement was not helpful.
WEDEMAN: Security experts long ago concluded Israel is a nuclear power. In his confirmation hearing, increasing U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates didn't seem to have any doubt about it when talking of Iran's atomic aspirations.
ROBERT GATES, INCOMING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They are surrounded by powers with nuclear weapons -- Pakistan to their east, the Russians to the north, the Israelis to the west and us in the Persian Gulf.
WEDEMAN: Much of the work on Israel's nuclear program is believed to have gone on here, at a top secret facility in Dimona in Israel's Negev Desert.
Veteran Israeli politician Shimon Peres was instrumental in developing Dimona. He always insisted it was a textiles factory.
SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI VICE PREMIER: Well, textile is out of business and all people are going for high tech today. But the textile business achieved its basic aim as a deterrent.
WEDEMAN: Ambiguous, indeed.
Prime Minister Olmert has since come out to reiterate his country's traditional position, that Israel will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Which brings to mind the words of William Shakespeare, who once wrote: "Me thinks he doth protest too much."
At this point, no one really doubts that Israel is a well established member of the nuclear club -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ben Wedeman reporting for us from Israel.
Ben, thank you.
Let's check in with Jack, once again, for "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, Democratic Congressional leaders have announced a temporary moratorium on earmarks, commonly called pork, that are attached to spending bills from the last Congress. The moratorium will remain in effect until the new Congress passes new lobbying rules, at which point those earmarks from these past Congressional bills will once again become eligible for consideration, but under these new lobbying rules.
Anyway, the key word here is temporary. One can only surmise this will leave the door open for the Democrats to start attaching earmarks for their pet projects to bills that they will pass when the new Congress convenes. Is sort of the way things are done.
But what we're looking at here is an opportunity to take perhaps one small step for political propriety and one giant leap for fiscal responsibility, as in check out the deficits.
Of course, it's hard to get too hopeful when the Democrats name a guy to head the Intelligence Committee that can't answer questions about al Qaeda and Hezbollah, but today "The Cafferty File" is looking at the glass as half full. Well, maybe a quarter full.
Here's the question -- should the 110th Congress make the moratorium on pork projects attached to spending bills permanent?
E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll see you in a few minutes, Jack.
Thank you for that.
Up ahead, a unified Iraq -- is it already, though, too late?
I'll ask Ambassador Peter Galbraith. He says the country has already split along sectarian lines and the United States immediately needs to change its goal.
Also, Hillary Clinton poised to take back some of the spotlight from her potential presidential rival. That would be Senator Barack Obama.
Will a new hard cover edition of one of her most famous books help her out?
Stay with us for that.
Plus, the son of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker now running his own ministry. You might be surprised at how different it is from his parents'.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Let's get some more now on our top story.
The White House says its plan for Iraq is not just ready yet and will have to wait until the next year. Today, President Bush met with a Sunni politician who's very important to the Iraq equation.
Let's turn to our Brian Todd.
He has more -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, an important piece of symbolism at the White House today. Iraq's top Sunni leader meets with President Bush at a time when the Sunnis appear to be more worried than ever about losing power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): An audience at the White House for one of Iraq's most courageous politicians, a leading voice against Shiite militias, a man who's lost two brothers and a sister just this year, to sectarian violence.
TAREQ AL-HASHIMI, IRAQI VICE PRESIDENT: What about the sacrifices my family and the country?
At the end of the day, we have no other option but to maintain the committal and to struggle until we meet that success in (INAUDIBLE).
TODD: But will Vice President Tareq al-Hashimi and his followers be part of any success?
As Iraq's top Sunni official, he leads a group which controls only about a fifth of Iraq's parliament. He's admitted that Sunnis are disappointed in him for not acquiring more power. And recent reports say some White House officials are pushing for a so-called Shia tilt, or 80 percent solution, strengthening Iraq's Shia and Kurdish factions, which account for 80 percent of the population and most of the parliament.
The White House won't discuss this publicly. But analysts say this about the attempts so far to get more Sunni support for the Iraqi government by offering amnesty and other concessions.
JAMES DOBBINS, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: It's not working. It's making the Shia even more nervous. It's feeding the violence because the Shia feel insecure and therefore they're over responding to the provocations of the Sunnis.
TODD: Analysts say if the U.S. bolsters the political Shia and Kurdish sides, they might get Shia militias to back down.
But a leader of the Iraq Study Group warns about any movement to marginalize the Sunnis.
LEE HAMILTON, IRAQ STUDY GROUP CO-CHAIRMAN: It's a prescription for permanent war. The Sunnis will not accept a Shia-led government by itself, if they're shut out of the deal and don't have a fair deal.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TODD: Experts point to other reasons not to leave the Sunnis too far behind -- their influence over Arab insurgents in Iraq and the fact that most of Iraq's neighbors, those friendly and unfriendly to the U.S. are Sunni -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thank you for that.
Brian Todd reporting.
My next guest strongly supports dividing Iraq as a solution.
Ambassador Peter Galbraith is the author of the book, "The End of Iraq."
He's joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Ambassador, thanks very much for coming in.
PETER GALBRAITH, AUTHOR, "THE END OF IRAQ," FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CROATIA: Very good to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: You basically have concluded that it's over in Iraq for all practical purposes, but the Bush administration hasn't come to that reality.
Is that correct?
GALBRAITH: That's basically correct. And to be technically correct, I'm not in favor of dividing Iraq. That's something the Iraqis have already done. It's in the Iraqi constitution. The central government, under that constitution, doesn't even have the power to impose taxes.
Kurdistan, in the north, is basically totally independent -- its own flag, its own army. The Iraqi Army and the Iraqi flag are banned there. The south is governed as theocracies and the rest of the country is basically a war zone.
So if we wanted to -- if we were serious about a unified Iraq, we would have to put that country back together again. That would require hundreds of thousands of troops. It would take years. And we probably wouldn't succeed.
BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about these three areas that -- you've been to Kurdistan. You've been going back and forth for, what, 20 years, to the northern part of Iraq.
When you land there and you go into the area, you have an American passport, what happens?
GALBRAITH: Well, I have an American passport, and in theory, you're supposed to have a visa to go to Iraq. But when I land in Kurdistan, my passport is processed by the Kurdistan authorities. It gets a stamp saying it's the Kurdistan region of Iraq. No visa. The flag that flies at the airport is the Kurdistan flag. The Iraqi flag is banned there. The airport is protected and the whole region, by the Kurdistan Army. The Iraqi Army doesn't go there. The central government ministries aren't present.
BLITZER: And if you want to go from Kurdistan in the northern part of Iraq into central Iraq, you need to get another visa.
GALBRAITH: Well, you don't need a visa, but you certainly cross through a border. And, in fact, it's a hard border. And if Arab Iraqis want to come to Kurdistan, they are questioned for security reasons. And if they don't have a contact in Kurdistan, if they don't have somebody who will sponsor them, they aren't allowed in. The Kurds want to insulate themselves from the violence that's overtaking the rest of Iraq.
BLITZER: And what you're saying is the Shia in the south, where they are predominantly the population, in effect, they've created already a similar situation?
GALBRAITH: Well, it's certainly not governed from Baghdad. It basically is a theocracy. The human rights provisions of a Iraqi constitution don't apply. Islamic law, modeled on Iran, but generally harsher, is enforced by militias. And the Shiites are now talking about creating their own region. They have passed a law in the parliament to allow them to do it. And they're talking about having a hard border with the Sunni parts of Iraq.
BLITZER: Well, what about the mixed neighborhoods, especially in the Baghdad area, seven million people live there, the central part of the country, where you have Sunni living with Shia?
GALBRAITH: Well, this break up of Iraq is accompanied by enormous violence. It's -- it is a tragedy what is happening in Iraq and Sunni -- mixed couples are under pressure. People who lived in mixed neighborhoods are being cleansed if they're from the minority.
But that's already happening. And the advantage of acknowledging what is happening, facing up to reality, is that you could have -- the Sunnis could form their own region and provide their own security.
The current strategy, which is basically using a Shiite government, a Shiite army to fight the Sunnis, isn't working.
BLITZER: Here's what the Iraq Study Group concluded on this sensitive issue: "The costs associated with devolving Iraq into three semi-autonomous regions with loose central control would be too high. A rapid devolution could result in mass population movements, collapse of the Iraqi security forces, strengthening of militias, ethnic cleansing, destabilization of neighboring states or attempts by neighboring states to dominate Iraqi regions."
What's your reaction to that?
GALBRAITH: Almost all those things have already happened. The Iranians do dominate the southern half of Iraq. We aren't doing anything to counter that. There is terrible ethnic killing and ethnic cleansing. We aren't doing anything to stop that.
If we were -- we aren't serious about a unified Iraq. We proclaim a goal but we are not prepared to commit the resources to accomplish it. And I also -- I don't think we should.
After all, why should we force the Kurds, for example, to live in a country that they don't want to be part of and which has been a failure for them?
BLITZER: Here's -- I want you to listen to what General Chiarelli, the second ranking U.S. general on the scene in the battlefield in Iraq said earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIARELLI: Normally in these sectarian type of events, where it's Sunni against Shia, or one group against another group, the mere presence of American forces or coalition forces has an impact. And normally it stops immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, do you think that's accurate?
GALBRAITH: It's probably true where the U.S. troops are. But the footprint of the U.S. troops is very small. The rate of killing in Iraq is between 100 and 200 each and every day. We don't stop the car bombers. We don't stop the Shiite militias who are carrying out the -- who are the death squads.
BLITZER: You're an authority on this subject. You've written this important book, "The End of Iraq," op-ed pieces. You used to work on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Were you asked by the Iraq Study Group to appear, to testify, to offer your 20-year experience in this country?
GALBRAITH: The principals of the Iraq Study Group did not ask to meet me. I met very briefly with the experts at a meeting that was really quite insignificant. There was no serious consideration given to the reality -- this reality of Iraq.
And if you read that 98-page report, amazingly, the words "civil war" do not appear. This is what everybody is talking about and yet they don't -- they don't even use those words.
BLITZER: Ambassador Peter Galbraith, thanks very much for coming in.
GALBRAITH: Wolf, very good to be with you.
BLITZER: And coming up, his parents' television ministry collapsed in scandal. Now, two decades later, Jay Bakker has his own ministry, and it's nothing like you might expect.
Plus, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, possible presidential contenders fighting for the spotlight. We're going to show you why it may soon be coming back her way.
Stay with us. Lots more coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, the White House announcing President Bush won't announce a new Iraq strategy until January. It was expected before Christmas. A spokesman saying the plan simply isn't ready and critics responding that time is running out.
Also, the Bush administration appeals a federal court ruling requiring the government to redesign U.S. currency to make it easier for blind people to tell the difference between bills.
And high above Earth, two astronauts carrying out a delicate mission right now. They're on a spacewalk installing a truss on the International Space Station.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
President Bush is trying to come up with a new plan for Iraq but his latest consultations with military commanders and experts clearly show the difficulty of the task, with multiple options and no guarantees.
Let's turn to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, when President Bush comes on the next stop of his listening tour over here to the Pentagon tomorrow, Pentagon sources say he's likely to hear more options, but not necessarily more answers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Following a secure videoconference with top military commanders, outgoing Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld leaves the White House with Robert Gates, the man who next week officially inherits the Iraq problem. That Gates needs more time to consider the options is one reason given by the White House for putting off a decision on a course correction until January.
President Bush is getting a lot of conflicting advice. One of the military commanders on the conference hookup from Iraq was Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli, who just before joining the call, told reporters in Baghdad more military force is not the answer.
CHIARELLI: And I know everybody wants us to charge on out there and make everything OK. But you cannot if you don't get these other things moving. And I don't know why it's so hard to get people to understand that.
MCINTYRE: But some of the experts who met with the president just the day before suggested one last major show of U.S. force could possibly stop the violence long enough for a political settlement to take hold, even as they conceded that was a long shot.
When Mr. Bush comes to the Pentagon, he'll likely get another list of pros and cons, not a clear-cut recommendation. At least that's the sense of CNN's Don Shepperd, who was among a small group of military analysts who met privately with Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman General Peter Pace in advance of the powwow with the president.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: And I think he's going to hear a whole bunch of options, no solutions, no big plan by the military to say this is what we need to do.
MCINTYRE: As for the much discussed option of surging more troops into Baghdad as a stopgap measure, few experts think that will work.
JAMES CARAFANO, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Even if you throw 20,000 troops in there and they temporarily put the violence down, what's going to happen is those guys are going to go to ground and as soon as those 20,000 troops leave, they'll just pop back up.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: And while U.S. military commanders are fond of saying that failure is not an option in Iraq, Wolf, some of the military experts who met with the president yesterday have suggested that failure is the most likely outcome no matter what the United States does -- Wolf.
BLITZER: That's a pretty depressing thought indeed. Jamie, thank you for that.
It remains to be seen what President Bush will do now that he's put off a decision about his Iraq strategy until January. Representative Dennis Kucinich wants those troops out immediately. We heard him here in THE SITUATION ROOM. He also announced today he's running for president once again.
Joining us now for today's strategy session, CNN political analyst and Democratic Strategist Paul Begala, and Terry Jeffrey, the editor of "Human Events." Is this is a big deal or a little deal that the president is not going to release his speech now until early January as opposed to before Christmas?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's a big deal, Wolf. For a couple of reasons. First, most importantly, the support for the war and the support for our president has collapsed. There's a CBS poll that shows support for the war down to 21 percent. Support for the president generally down to 31. That CBS poll is actually usually the most negative one for Bush, so it may be five or six points better, but still that's awful.
As he ponders, Americans are dying and Iraqis are dying. It's terrible for the president. There's also a tactical problem. It's now pushing this major Iraq speech up against the State of the Union, which should be the president's best day of the year in terms of communication. It could be overshadowed by his Iraq speech, it's a big mistake.
BLITZER: That State of the Union going to probably be the last week or so in January. Here's what Harry Reid, the incoming majority leader in the Senate said today, "Talking to the same people he should have talked to four years ago does not relieve the president of the need to change his policy. Now the ball is in his court and time is running out."
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS: Well there's no indication that the president isn't going to change his policy. I suspect what's going on is the president realizes he has one last chance to adjust the strategy in Iraq, to have real progress in the next two years so they don't have chaos there.
And if you heard what Tony Snow had to say at the White House briefing today, the president is not only looking at all the options and trying to consider all the potential consequences of each option, he also wants the new Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, to go over there and see the situation on the ground before he comes back and weighs in. Those are important considerations, the ultimate consequences of the president's decision are too great to be a subject of partisan politics.
BLITZER: We heard Dennis Kucinich, he wants to be president of the United States, he made the announcement today. He said, you know what, the Democrats have to have the guts to stand up and stop funding this war. That's the quick and easy way relatively easy to end the fighting and the dying.
BEGALA: Or he stakes out the most, obviously, anti-war position. To his credit, he was against the war when it was popular. When most Democrats were supporting the war. So Congressman Kucinich brings something important to the presidential debate. I do think as a matter of substance, not simply politics that it's unwise for the Congress to cut off the funding.
I opposed the war from the beginning just like Dennis Kucinich did. But once we're in it, we can't have 535 secretaries of defense, we can only one president and one secretary of defense. I think the Congress's job is to ask tough questions. But I don't think he'll get far with his argument of cutting off the funds.
BLITZER: What do you think?
JEFFREY: Wolf, I saw your interview with Congressman Kucinich, and what amazes me is there was absolutely no evidence that this man has weighed the consequences of cutting off funding to U.S. troops in Iraq and similarly removing our troops.
BLITZER: I did ask him, I said if you cut off the funding, aren't those troops going to be in danger? He said they're in danger now and get them out. Then they won't be in danger.
JEFFREY: And you also got the moral obligations we have to the people in Iraq in this consequence. One contribution that the Iraq Study Group did, I believe, is they very clearly and realistically laid out the potential consequences of a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. I suggest that Congressman Kucinich read that report and start weighing the policies that he is promoting against the facts that are reported there.
BLITZER: His argument being that, yes, the United States, they have a moral argument but it's first moral argument is to the men and women who serve in the U.S. military and he says, they have no business being there.
JEFFREY: Well, look, the question now is to use our military in such a way as we optimize the outcome in terms of our own security interests and also what happens on the ground. We do have a moral obligation to the people in Iraq, we invaded that country. We also have a moral obligation to our own security. I see no evidence that Dennis Kucinich has really given thoughtful consideration of that. People in the Iraq Study Group, yes. The president yes, Dennis Kucinich, no.
BLITZER: He's been consistent from the beginning for four years, five years, saying this is a huge mistake.
BEGALA: He has and I think for that reason it's good for the Democrats that he's running and that he's in the debate. I think it's going to be very useful. It's going to be problematic.
BLITZER: It's going to push the others to the left?
BEGALA: Well, it's going to be problematic for people who voted for the Iraq war, weather it's Senator Kerry, Senator Edwards, Senator Clinton, they're all going to have to explain why either they were right or why they wrong. In the eyes of most Democrats they were wrong. But I do think he's looking to the wrong branch of government to fix this. Congress can't fix Iraq. Only the president can. And about the best thing we can do now is to pray and pressure Mr. Bush to do the right thing and to bring our troops home.
BLITZER: Paul and Terry, we got to leave it right there. Thanks guys for coming in.
And coming up, the dueling stars of the Democratic Party, can Hillary Clinton bring the spotlight back her way? And congressional spending habits, is it time for the Congress to get rid of the pork barrel spending altogether? Jack Cafferty will be back with your e- mail and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: They're the top two picks among Democrats looking towards the 2008 race for the White House, at least right now. And in recent days, Illinois Senator Barack Obama has been stealing a lot of the spotlight from New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, but that potentially could change very soon. Let's turn to CNN's Mary Snow she's in New York. Mary?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Senator Clinton is re- releasing her famous book from the 1990s which will mean national television interviews and some book signings. And it comes at a time when she's been largely working behind the scenes as Senator Barack Obama has been front and center.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Sometimes, it takes a book tour. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is re-releasing "It Takes a Village" to mark its 10th anniversary. It contains a new introduction and a chance to draw some attention.
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the book tour will give Hillary Clinton an opportunity to garnish some of the news attention away from Barack Obama who basically has had the stage to himself since the 2006 midterms.
SNOW: That stage for Senator Obama has included a book tour of his own. On Monday, it even gained him a primetime appearance on "Monday Night Football" when he joked about his plans for 2008.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) ILLINOIS: So tonight, I'd like to put all the doubts to rest, I would like to announce to my hometown of Chicago and all of America that I am ready. For the Bears to go all the way, baby, da-da-da-da!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Barack Obama!
SNOW: Obama's appearance capped off a weekend in New Hampshire where he was greeted like a star. While he's been taking center stage, New York's junior senator has been working a different strategy, talking privately with Democrats from New Hampshire and Iowa, early deciding states of presidential races. On Monday though, she did talk publicly for the first time about those talks and her decision about whether to run in '08.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: And I'm talking to people who have opinions about what our country needs to do going forward. And whether or not I, you know, make any decisions about that, I won't, you know, really confront until after the first of the year.
SNOW: But will her timing change because of all of the attention given to Senator Obama? Some political observers say it's possible, but unlikely, since Senator Clinton is known for being meticulous.
STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: My guess, however, is that they're going to pretty much follow their schedule, their plan, in fact, I think it would be unwise for them to overreact to the early attention to Senator Obama.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And political observers say Senator Clinton can't afford to wait because she has set up a staff organization and has raised plenty of money. To date, she has about $14 million in cash on hand -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary Snow in New York. Thanks very much for that.
So is the U.S. ready for an African-American president? Paula Zahn goes in depth in a special president tonight, skin-deep, racism in America. That's "Paula Zahn Now," airs 8:00 p.m. eastern, only on CNN, right after our program.
Up next, shedding the sins of the father. The son of Evangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker strikes out on his own with a much less conventional ministry. We'll tell you what's going on. And Jack Cafferty wants to know what you think, should the 110th Congress make a permanent moratorium on pork projects attached to spending bills? Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: His last name is infamous and synonymous to many with scandal and hypocrisy. But the son of disgraced televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker is trying to shed their past and build his own very unconventional ministry. Carol Costello has been looking into this story and she's got it for us -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's an interesting story Wolf. You know that infamous name Bakker is hard to escape. Growing up fully aware of Jay Bakker's parents, I didn't know what to expect when I met their 31-year-old son. Let me put it this way, he is no Jim Bakker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAY BAKKER, PASTOR, CHURCH CO-FOUNDER: Jesus is reaching out to those who people didn't like.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Inclusion is the message here. A shabby chic Brooklyn bar where people gather to hear a punk rock preacher, Jay Bakker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If these were your parents, what would you do? Love and stand by them? Follow in their footsteps or question all you've been taught? Briefly self-destruct and turn religion on its head?
BAKKER: The answer -- all of the above.
COSTELLO: Bakker's parents are fallen televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye, he's using their sins and becoming the it preacher, the subject of a reality series on the Sundance Channel. His face plastered on buses along with his not so hip message, it's cool to be Christian.
To some, Christian is a dirty word, Christian is something that you run from.
BAKKER: You hear the word "Christian" you automatically think, oh, you're Jerry Falwell.
COSTELLO: Or Jim Bakker. BAKKER: Or Jim Bakker, yeah, you know.
COSTELLO: Insert whatever irony you want here. His father Jim Bakker led the "Praise the Lord" ministry, he was the it preacher of the Christian right in the '80s. Ranking in at his peak $172 million in revenue, until Bakker went morally bust after a sexual tryst with church secretary Jessica Hawn. He wound up in jail for stealing from his followers. But that was back in '89 and the sins of the father have been forgiven.
BAKKER: I get along with my dad pretty well. I mean we have our struggles and we're constantly trying to work things out as father and son.
JIM BAKKER, TELEVANGELIST: Great to have you all here today, my son is in the house! It's hard trying to hide the fact that he's my son, you know. And so he has tattoos.
JAY BAKKER: Look, I got a PTL tattoo.
COSTELLO: Jim Bakker now has a new TV ministry himself, but don't confuse it with his son's. Jay's Revolution Church strives to be boldly different. It's motto, we're sorry for being self-righteous judgmental bastards and for injecting ourselves in places we don't belong.
JAY BAKKER: You know the conservative right has hijacked politics but I think they've worked off of each other, I think they've used each other, and to me, it's caused the church to be in quite a sad state right now.
COSTELLO: Sad, because the religious rite, Jay says is so unforgiving in its moral judgments. That's why gays, pro abortionists, everyone is welcome in his revolution church. As for whether Jay Bakker's new kind of church will ever be as big as his father's ministry once was, forget it. As Bakker puts it, we are not about celebrity and all about message.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: A word about Jay's mom, Tammy Faye Bakker, she is suffering from stage four lung cancer, is now in hospice. And has always had a close relationship with her son Jay. Jay has nothing but lovely warm things to say about his mother, but Wolf she's in pretty bad shape, in fact, she's dying.
BLITZER: We wish her only the best. Thanks very much. Excellent piece, Carol Costello reporting for us from New York. Let's stay in New York and check in with Lou Dobbs, he's getting ready for his program that begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you. Tonight we're reporting on a federal crackdown on illegal aliens using phony social security cards and other phony IDs and working at meat packing plants across the country. Will these raids do anything to stop illegal immigration? Will it stop those illegal aliens from stealing your identity? We'll have a special report for you tonight.
And the worsening dangers to the nation's food supply. Contaminated tomatoes, spinach, onions, making hundreds of people across the country sick in recent months. What has happened to our food supply? Is our food supply safe? We'll have that report for you tonight.
And middle class Americans struggling while disgraced members of Congress collecting generous pensions and, oh, yes, health benefits for life. What in the world is going on? We'll have that special report and I'll be talking with the incoming chairman of the House Education Committee, Congressman George Miller, about his plan to save our failing public education system. Please join us at the top of the hour here on CNN. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Lou, we certainly will. Thanks very much for that. Lou Dobbs coming up in a few minutes.
Half the states would run out of hospital beds in the event of a moderate pandemic flu outbreak that according to a report released today. How would your state handle a health emergency? Let's turn once again to Jacki Schechner, she has the situation online -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, according to this report, only 15 states are fully prepared to provide emergency vaccines and medical supplies. The report is called "ready or not" and it's the fourth annual report of its kind from the "Trust for America's Health," which is a non profit non partisan health advocacy organization.
And the report took 10 indicators to decide whether or not a state would be ready in case of an emergency. And the only state that got 10 out of 10 was Oklahoma. New Jersey was one of the four states that only got four out of 10. The New Jersey Health commissioner took issue with the report, listing a whole slew of explanations why the New Jersey state is actually prepared.
Now one of the good things about this report they said that three quarters of the states and their labs are now prepared to test for bioterrorism. They also say that every state in the country now has a pandemic flu plan in place. The Centers for Disease Control called the report a good tool for raising awareness -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jacki, thanks for that. And still to come, Jack Cafferty wants to know, should the 110th Congress permanently cut out the pork attached to spending bills. We'll have that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's Jack in New York with "The Cafferty File." Jack?
CAFFERTY: Wolf, Democratic congressional leaders have announced a temporary moratorium on earmarks that would be pork attached to spending bills from the last Congress. It will be in effect until they pass some new lobbying rules. The question we asked is should the 110th Congress make a moratorium on pork projects attached to spending bills permanent.
Jim in Ohio writes, "People expect their elected officials to bring home the bacon. That's why they're sent to Washington. They are first and foremost representatives of their districts and senators of their states. They do not work for the federal government, get a clue."
Dan in Melville, New York, "If we put a moratorium on pork projects, we'd better be ready for an avalanche of freed up money the likes of which we've never seen. Maybe there would be some for a tax cut for the ordinary family."
W.C. in Auburn, Alabama, "Yes, but they'll never do it. Earmarks are too useful as a means of bribing the voters so they can get reelected. Too many bridges to nowhere have been built and I foresee many more."
Mike in Florida, "Should they? Yes. Will they? Not hardly. Do you actually expect them to act like they're financially responsible all of a sudden? They all need to have an operation first to put a spine in their backs."
Alan in Boston writes, "Come on Jack, the other white meat has been on the D.C. menus for years. And it's the best deal in town because this pig rarely sees the light of day. And if you have to ask what's an earmark you're probably not getting one. Without pork, what's left for elected officials to pass out, pens? Keep bringing home the bacon, Jack, you're the best."
If you didn't see your email here you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read some more of these online. Mr. Blitzer?
BLITZER: Thank you Jack. We'll do it again in an hour. Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File." Up next, who will be "Time" magazine's person of the year? We're going to look at one of the big contenders. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: He's one of the most important people on the world stage. But could he also become this year's person of the year? Here's CNN's Soledad O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): He's already been chosen twice as president and as "Time" magazine's person of the year. This time, George W. Bush makes the list again. But it's a more complicated calculation.
JOSH TYRANGIEL, TIME WRITER/REPORTER: Every year, somebody can make the argument that the president of the United States is the person of the year. Because it's the most powerful office in the world, there's no question. And so, even in a year where there's not a war, where there's not a diplomatic brouhaha, you could say, yeah, it's a no-brainer, president of the United States. I happen to think this year was about President Bush losing control and not gaining control. And this year, the world changed him.
STEVE KOEPP, TIME DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR: This has happened to Bush. He's getting a lot of direction from the people he has to respond to now in Congress. He now has appointed a commission to think of what to do about Iraq. He may be successful and the country will be successful. But it's not him carrying out a plan that he engineered or one that really he's going to do all by himself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And our sister publication "Time" magazine will reveal this year's person of the year right here on CNN. And that happens this Saturday, 8:00 p.m. eastern, you're going to want to see that. Remember, we're here weekday afternoons from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. eastern, we're back in one hour at 7:00 p.m. eastern. Much more of THE SITUATION ROOM coming up. Until then, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now -- Lou.
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