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The Situation Room
The Way Forward in Iraq Stalled
Aired December 12, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: To your viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, the way forward in Iraq is stalled. President Bush puts off announcing any changes to his war strategy. Is he considering a controversial plan to choose sides in Iraq and exclude the very group he reached out to today?
Also this hour -- the Iranian president's outrageous encore. His conference debating the Holocaust was already pushing Western leaders' buttons. You're going to want to hear what he had to say to get them even angrier.
And startling new twists in a Princess Diana mystery. Why were her phones being bugged by the United States? A new report points to her relationship with a very wealthy American. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Tonight, President Bush is giving new fuel to his Iraq critics by taking more time to try to retool his war strategy. He's still pressing ahead with his consultations with key players, including talks today with Iraq's vice president.
But the White House says Mr. Bush won't announce his next moves in Iraq until after the first of the year. Some angry Democrats are demanding changes right now, saying time is simply running out.
And the body count is rising. A massive suicide truck bombing in central Baghdad today killed at least 71 Iraqis and wounded more than 200. Most of them were Shiite Muslims.
Iraq's religious divide is driving much of the violence now, tearing apart that country. And there are questions tonight whether the Bush administration might decide to actually choose sides. Let's begin with our senior national correspondent, John Roberts. John?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf. The struggle to find a new way forward in Iraq is producing no end of controversial ideas. The Iraq Study Group report out last week had plenty of them. But one proposal being circulated inside the administration is drawing its share of critics as well. For the effect it could have on the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: And you're committed to a government ...
ROBERTS (voice-over): The meeting with Iraq's Sunni vice president might be a rare event if certain factions within the administration have their way. They have concluded that outreach to the Sunnis is both not working and costing the U.S. political capital with Iraq's Shiite-dominated government.
ROBIN WRIGHT, "WASHINGTON POST": The feeling was that the United States had begun to alienate the very power base on which the government relied, particularly the Shiites, by reaching out to the Sunnis. It was effectively backfiring.
ROBERTS: The plan, which sources say has been floated by Vice President Cheney's office, would sideline the Sunnis from the political process and focus on Shiites and Kurds, who make up 80 percent of Iraq's population. But how would this so-called 80 percent solution go over with America's Arab allies in the region, most of which are dominated by Sunni Muslims?
WRIGHT: Clearly, this is one of the most controversial ideas on the table. Because of course it will alienate many of the U.S.'s closest allies, particularly in the Persian Gulf. Saudi Arabia has been deeply concerned about the marginalization of the Sunni population, that it would not be included enough.
ROBERTS: The greater worry among nations like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait and others is that if the Shia consolidate power in Iraq they will decimate, not just dominate the Sunnis. That would place a nation with close ideological ties to Iran right on their doorstep. Hisham Melham is a commentator for al-Arabiya TV.
HISHAM MELHAM, AL-ARABIYA: They will not allow the Sunnis of Iraq to be crushed. It doesn't mean that they are happy with the insurgency. They are concerned about the fate of their brethren, the Sunnis of Iraq, who ruled Iraq for more than 80 years.
ROBERTS: So what could that mean for Iraq? Already, there are charges from Iraqi politicians that wealthy Arabs are helping to finance the Sunni insurgency. If those benefactors see a calculated tilt toward the Shiite side by the United States, says Melham, it could unleash a flood of arms and bloodshed.
MELHAM: It could force these countries either to help the Sunnis financially and politically and materially by providing them with weapons.
They are playing with fire. I mean, this is a prescription for a perpetual state of violence along communal lines and sectarian lines in the eastern Mediterranean and in the Gulf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (on camera): The 80 percent solution has caused something of a split in the administration. Opponents of the idea are quick to insist that no one is thinking about throwing the Sunnis under a bus, but they do say something has to change diplomatically and politically in Iraq, and that may involve a little less mother henning on the part of the United States, allowing the Iraqis to take a greater hand in forging their future. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, John, thanks very much. We're going to have more on this part of the story coming up.
But let's turn now to a developing story from Iraq's neighbor. The leader of Iran has already called for Israel to be wiped off the map. Now President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is once again on the attack and drawing an angry response from world leaders. We'll turn to our Carol Costello. She's picking up this part of the story. Carol?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. You know, many Americans find this scary. A country hinting at acquiring nuclear weapons holding a conference that most would say makes absolutely no sense. And the American representative there -- David Duke.
Today much of the world had enough.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said it again. Israel's days are numbered and it's God's will.
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, PRESIDENT OF IRAN: Thanks to the people's wishes and God's will, the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards. And this is what God has promised and what all nations want.
COSTELLO: And the place he said that is just as outrageous. A conference debating the Holocaust. Among the headliners -- David Duke, ex-Ku Klux Klan leader turned American politician.
DAVID DUKE, (R) FORMER LA STATE REP.: It's an ideological offensive. I think that the Zionists have controlled the ideological front and the Zionists have used the Holocaust as a weapon to deny the rights of the Palestinians and to cover up the crimes of Israel.
COSTELLO: It was all too much for Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, who came out swinging against the Iranian president.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Everything that Iran is doing is negative. And then they hold this conference yesterday which, you know, maybe I feel too strongly about these things, but I think it is such a symbol of, you know, sectarianism and hatred towards people of another religion. I find it just unbelievable, really.
COSTELLO: He was joined in his disgust by German leader Angela Merkel, who condemned the conference and then summoned the Iranian diplomat in Berlin to express her displeasure. In Germany denial of the Holocaust is a crime.
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We reject with all our strength the conference taking place in Iran about the supposed non-existence of the Holocaust. We absolutely reject this.
COSTELLO: The Vatican also weighed in, affirming its belief the Holocaust happened, calling it an "immense tragedy" for humankind. There was nothing couched about the U.S. response.
SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: It's just absolutely astounding.
COSTELLO: The Americans, under pressure to negotiate with Iran over the Iraq War, calling Iran's conference an affront to the entire civilized world.
MCCORMACK: The behavior of this particular regime is far outside the bounds of pretty much any regime that we see on the face of the earth.
COSTELLO: But Iran's president says he'll say what he wants about Israel. He calls it free speech.
AHMADINEJAD: In the lands ruled by these powers, the western countries, people can question God, can question the prophets, but approaching the idol of the Holocaust in these countries is an unforgivable crime.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (on camera): Well, the Iranian president might say he's practicing free speech, but keep in mind Iran is a country where newspapers have been closed, reporters have been arrested, and Web sites blocked from Iranian citizens. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Carol. Thanks very much. Carol's going to be back later this hour. Let's turn now to a secret matter now being openly discussed -- whether or not Israel actually has nuclear weapons. Some say a slip of the lip by the Israeli prime minister has now provided the answer. CNN's Ben Wedeman has the story. Ben?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it is perhaps the worst- kept secret in the Middle East.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Ambiguity has always been Israel's response to questions about whether or not it has nuclear weapons. But in an interview with German TV Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert didn't sound so ambiguous.
EHUD OLMERT, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: But we never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons as America, France, Israel, Russia?
WEDEMAN: Were his words a slip of the tongue or a blunt message for Iran? That Israel has its own well-developed nuclear program.
Olmert's spokeswoman says the quote is being taken out of context. But the fallout at home from his comments is intense.
SILVAN SHALOM, FORMER ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: While we are trying to work very hard to impose sanctions on the Iranians, while we believe the Iranians are threatening the stability of the entire world, I think this statement was not helpful.
WEDEMAN: Security experts long ago concluded Israel is a nuclear power. In his confirmation hearing, incoming U.S. defense secretary Robert Gates didn't seem to have any doubt about it when talking of Iran's atomic aspirations.
ROBERT GATES, INCOMING DEFENSE SECRETARY: They are surrounded by powers with nuclear weapons. Pakistan to their east, the Russians to the north, the Israelis to the west, and us in the Persian Gulf.
WEDMAN: Much of the work on Israel's nuclear program is believed to have gone on here, at a top secret facility in Dimona in Israel's Negev Desert.
Veteran Israeli politician Shimon Peres was instrumental in developing Dimona. He always insisted it was a textiles factory.
SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI VICE PREMIER: Textile is out of business. You know, people are going for high-tech today. But the textile business achieved its basic aim as a deterrent.
WEDEMAN: Ambiguous indeed.
Prime Minister Olmert has since come out to reiterate his country's traditional position that Israel will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East.
(END VIDEOTAPE))
WEDEMAN (on camera): Which brings to mind the words of William Shakespeare, who once wrote, "Methinks he doth protest too much." at this point, no one really doubts that Israel is a well-established member of the nuclear club. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Ben. Thanks very much. Ben Wedeman reporting for us from Israel.
Let's turn to Jack Cafferty. He's in New York with the "Cafferty File." Jack?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, the 110th Congress that convenes January 4th has a long way to go in restoring its image among the American people. There is a new "USA Today"/Gallup poll out that shows 15 percent of those surveyed gave U.S. senators high or very high marks for honesty and ethics. Only 14 percent felt that way about U.S. representatives. In fact, our elected representatives are right near the bottom of the pile out of 23 occupations. They did manage to get higher ethics ratings than insurance salesmen, HMO managers and car salesmen.
You want to know how bad it is? Lawyers do better in this survey than Congress. That's right. Lawyers. Five years ago members of Congress rated 25 percent. That was higher than lawyers and stockbrokers. But not anymore.
So here's the question. What does congress have to do to get higher marks for ethics and honesty than HMO managers and car salesmen? E-mail your thoughts to caffertyfile@cnn.com. Or you can go to cnn.com/caffertyfile. Wolf?
BLITZER: Jack, thank you.
And coming up -- the war in Iraq. The president may still be deciding on a new strategy, but is it for all practical purposes already over? We're going to talk to one expert who says it is.
Plus -- spying on Diana. A closer look at reports that U.S. intelligence officers were listening in on the princess.
And it takes a book tour. Hillary Clinton back in the spotlight. But will it be enough to steal the thunder of Barack Obama? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on our top story. The White House says its plan for Iraq is simply not yet ready, is going to have to wait until next year. Meanwhile, one former diplomat suggests the way to fix Iraq is to face reality and to divide it. Ambassador Peter Galbraith is the author of the book "The End of Iraq."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Ambassador, thanks very much for coming in.
PETER GALBRAITH, AUTHOR, "THE END OF IRAQ": Very good to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: You basically have concluded that it's over in Iraq for all practical purposes but the Bush administration hasn't come to that reality. Is that correct?
GALBRAITH: That's basically correct. And to be technically correct, I'm not in favor of dividing Iraq. That's something the Iraqis have already done. It's in the Iraqi constitution. The central government under that constitution doesn't even have the power to impose taxes.
Kurdistan in the north is basically totally independent. Its own flag, its own army. The Iraqi army and the Iraqi flag are banned there.
The south is governed as theocracies. And the rest of the country is basically a war zone. So if we were serious about a unified Iraq, we would have to put that country back together again. That would require hundreds of thousands of troops. It would take years. And we probably wouldn't succeed. BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about these three areas that -- you've been to Kurdistan. You've been going back and forth for, what, 20 years, the northern part of Iraq. When you land there and you go into the area, you have an American passport, what happens?
GALBRAITH: Well, I have an American passport, and in theory you're supposed to have a visa to go to Iraq. But when I land in Kurdistan, my passport's processed by the Kurdistan authorities. It gets a stamp saying it's the Kurdistan region of Iraq. No visa.
The flag that flies at the airport is the Kurdistan flag. The Iraqi flag is banned there. The airport is protected, and the whole region by the Kurdistan army. The Iraqi army doesn't go there. The central government ministries aren't present.
BLITZER: And if you want to go from Kurdistan in the northern part of Iraq into central Iraq, you need to get another visa.
GALBRAITH: You don't need a visa, but you certainly cross through a border. And in fact, it's a hard border, and if Arab Iraqis want to come to Kurdistan, they are questioned for security reasons. And if they don't have a contact in Kurdistan, if they don't have somebody who will sponsor them, they aren't allowed in. The Kurds want to insulate themselves from the violence that is overtaking the rest of Iraq.
BLITZER: And what you're saying is the Shia in the south, where they are predominantly the population, in effect they've created already a similar situation.
GALBRAITH: It's certainly not governed from Baghdad. It basically is a theocracy. The human rights provisions of the Iraqi constitution don't apply. Islamic law, modeled on Iran but generally harsher, is enforced by militias. And the Shiites are now talking about creating their own region. They have passed along in the parliament to allow them to do it. And they're talking about having a hard border with the Sunni parts of Iraq.
BLITZER: What about the mixed neighborhoods? Especially in the Baghdad area, 7 million people live there. The central part of the country, where you have Sunni living with Shia.
GALBRAITH: Well, this break-up of Iraq is accompanied by enormous violence. It is a tragedy what is happening in Iraq. And Sunni -- mixed couples are under pressure. People that live in the mixed neighborhoods are being cleansed if they're from the minority.
But that's already happening. And the advantage of acknowledging what is happening, facing up to reality, is you could have - the Sunnis could form their own region and provide their own security. The current strategy, which is basically using a Shiite government, a Shiite army to fight the Sunnis, isn't working.
BLITZER: You've written this important book, "The End of Iraq." Op-ed pieces. You used to work on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Were you asked by the Iraq Study Group to appear, to testify, to offer your 20-year experience in this country?
GALBRAITH: The principles of the Iraq Study Group did not ask to meet me. I met very briefly with the experts at a meeting that was really quite insignificant. There was no serious consideration given to the reality, this reality of Iraq.
And if you read that 98-page report, amazingly, the words "civil war" do not appear. This is what everybody's talking about, and yet they don't even use those words.
BLITZER: Ambassador Peter Galbraith, thanks very much for coming in.
GALBRAITH: Wolf, very good to be with you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And still to come, running against Iraq. Dennis Kucinich says that when he's the next president of the United States he'll cut all U.S. funding for the war. I'm going to ask him about that when he's in THE SITUATION ROOM. That's coming up.
Plus -- revolutionary church. The son of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker finds his religion. Is he mixing politics with God? Carol Costello once again standing by to talk with him about that. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Was U.S. intelligence actually spying on Britain's Princess Diana in the months before her death almost a decade ago? CNN's David Mattingly has details of reports that are raising some new questions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The British newspaper "The Evening Standard" says a much-anticipated Scotland Yard report on the death of Princess Diana will reveal that U.S. intelligence was bugging her phones because of a friendship with wealthy American financier and philanthropist Theodore Forstmann.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, FORMER ACTING CIA DIRECTOR: Once this report comes out, in all likelihood it will turn out that there are one or two possibilities. One is that this was a total garble and that there's nothing at all to it. Or the other is that there is some rational and benign explanation for what has been reported.
MATTINGLY: A spokesman for Forstmann says the two were good friends. A source familiar with that friendship tells CNN Forstmann met Diana at a London party in the early '90s as her marriage to Prince Charles was ending. The two became fast friends with the older Forstmann frequently acting as a confidant and an adviser.
But the "Evening Standard also reports that U.S. intelligence raised security concerns and played a role in canceling a U.S. vacation Diana and Princes William and Harry planned to take at Forstmann's home in the Hamptons in the summer of 1997.
The paper does not name its sources for alleged surveillance of the couple or suggest a reason. Its reporting could not be independently confirmed. On Monday the National Security Administration released a statement saying "NSA did not target Princess Diana's communications."
MCLAUGHLIN: If her name appears in NSA files, it's just because she's referred to in some legitimate communication they were monitoring. It's conceivable that U.S. intelligence had an eye on someone that had a relationship with her. But it seems highly unlikely to me. It just doesn't make sense.
MATTINGLY: But even in the absence of fact or context, nine years after her death Princess Di's life and her associations continue to generate intrigue and speculation. The introduction of the name Ted Forstmann, a high-profile billionaire with Republican connections, raises new questions and what ifs for royal watchers like author Gerald Strober.
GERALD STROBER, ROYALS AUTHOR: He certainly is a very reputable, a major businessman in the United States. There would seem to be no reason whatsoever other than perhaps the political reason for the Clinton administration to try to eavesdrop on his conversations.
MATTINGLY: The answers, or perhaps even more questions, will come when the Scotland Yard report is released on Thursday. David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And just ahead -- if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Long shot Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich takes another crack at the White House. He announced today. My interview with Representative Kucinich coming up.
Also, Senator Hillary Clinton's book "It Takes a Village" making an encore appearance on bookstore shelves. Can she take back the spotlight from rising political star Barack Obama? Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, the White House says the plan for Iraq isn't ready yet but with many dying every day some say the time to act is right now.
Report to jail immediately. That is the order for former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling. A judge has denied his request for bail pending appeal.
And helping the blind count their money. A federal court recently ordered the government to redesign paper money to help blind people tell their bills apart. But the government wants to appeal, saying blind people can use portable currency readers or credit and debit cards.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Tonight, there's a new longshot Democratic candidate in the race for the White House. Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich has launched his second presidential bid by venting his considerable frustration about the war in Iraq. I'll speak with him in a moment.
First though, our Congress the correspondent, Andrea Koppel, has much more on Kucinich and his announcement earlier today -- Andrea?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, 30 years ago, Dennis Kucinich was the nation's youngest big city mayor. Now at age 60 and a strict vegan, he believes the U.S. needs a Department of Peace, and he's hoping to become the next U.S. president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: I am announcing my candidacy for president of the United States.
KOPPEL (voice-over): As only the second Democrat to officially throw his hat in the ring following Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack's announcement last month, at the moment the field is virtually wide open for the five-term Ohio congressman, who says he's in it to win.
KUCINICH: A leader must have not just hindsight, but foresight.
KOPPEL: At the heart of Kucinich's campaign, his unswerving opposition to the war in Iraq, which he refused to support even back in 2002.
KUCINICH: The American people want to know what will the use of force in Iraq cost? And how will it be paid for?
Everything I said then has proven to be true. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. Iraq had no intention or capability of attacking the United States, but we attacked Iraq.
KOPPEL: Now, Kucinich is calling on Congress to cut off future funding for the war and on President Bush to bring U.S. troops home.
The war in Iraq was also the central issue in Kucinich's last bid for president in 2004, when he came in at the bottom of the pack. But he garnered national attention, appearing on shows like Jay Leno, when the then single Kucinich said he was looking for a wife and became the prize in an Internet contest.
Experts say there are usually only two reasons why long shots like Kucinich go through presidential campaigns. STEPHEN HESS, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: They're on an ego trip and they get very excited by the opportunities to be on the same platform with the contenders, if you will. It's fun-and it's interesting. And because they have something they think they have to say, and perhaps something that the others aren't saying, and they want to add their voice to it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: In this case, Kucinich intends to pressure Democratic leaders to use the one trump card they have, to cut off funding for the war in Iraq and for President Bush to withdraw U.S. troops once and for all -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Andrea, thanks for that. And he did get married since his first run for the White House. And as he begins his second presidential campaign, Congressman Kucinich knows he'll face tough questions about his position on the war in Iraq and whether he really thinks he has a shot at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Joining us now from his home state of Ohio, Democratic congressman and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.
Congressman, thanks for coming in.
KUCINICH: Thank you very much, Wolf.
BLITZER: You want -- are you going to introduce actual legislation to stop the funding of the U.S. involvement in Iraq?
KUCINICH: Well, that, you know, that's something that could be pursued. But you don't have to do that. We appropriated $70 billion on October 1st. That money can be used to bring the troops home now. You don't have to introduce any other legislation.
The problem is -- and this is why I'm running -- our Democratic leaders have said that in April they're going to approve a supplemental of up to $160 billion. That would keep the war going through the end of President Bush's term.
I say this is the time to bring the troops home.
If you looked at "The Cafferty File," you can see that, look, it's a hellhole. We need to bring the troops home.
And so my position and my race for the presidency is about consistency. It's about a quest for integrity. It's about saying the money is there to bring the troops home, so let's bring them home.
What are we waiting for?
BLITZER: So, let me be precise. When the next appropriations bill, the spending bill, $100 billion, $150 billion, whatever it is, comes up, you want the Democrats, who are now the majority, to vote against that?
Is that right?
KUCINICH: That's absolutely right.
What we need to do is...
BLITZER: Now, what about...
KUCINICH: ... is to tell the president right now we have money in the pipeline. It was appropriated just two months ago, Wolf, $70 billion. That's more than the entire budget of the Department of Education. We have the money in the pipeline right now to bring the troops home.
So why don't we bring them home? Isn't that what the people voted for in November? Isn't that why they put the Democrats in power?
So my candidacy, as a Democrat, is to give people all around the country someone they can rally around to say look, yes, we want the troops brought home.
BLITZER: Because...
KUCINICH: We're going to support Kucinich because that's what he's going to do.
BLITZER: Because I've asked most of the Democratic leaders, including Nancy Pelosi and John Murtha -- both of them are strong opponents of this war -- if they'll vote against funding for the U.S. involvement, and they all say no because they're afraid this will endanger the U.S. men and women serving in Iraq, 140,000, 150,000.
KUCINICH: OK, hold it right there and let's examine this, OK?
If we care about the troops and the money is there right now to bring them home, then why wouldn't we use the money we have to bring them home instead of appropriating even more money to keep them there another two years in a war which everyone says cannot be won militarily?
So, you know, this is a moment for me to stand up, to show leadership. You know, it's easy in hindsight for candidates to say well, you know, we shouldn't have gone there. I was right at the forefront challenging the Bush administration march toward war. People want someone who has that foresight. That's what a leader is about.
I'm saying we can get out of Iraq right now. The money is there.
BLITZER: So...
KUCINICH: And I'm taking a really strong stand on this, Wolf. I'm putting it all on the line, because I believe the American people want those troops brought home. BLITZER: So is this an area where you disagree with the speaker- to-be, Nancy Pelosi?
KUCINICH: Nancy Pelosi has opposed the war and I'm going to vote for Nancy Pelosi for speaker. I like Nancy Pelosi. She's going to be a great speaker.
But she needs support built up in the Congress for this new direction. And what I'm trying to do is help save the Democratic Party from making a tremendous mistake.
By appropriating funds in the spring to help George Bush continue the war, we'd be buying the war.
I mean why buy a used war from this administration?
We need to go forward with the intention of creating peace in the region. We have to start with ending the occupation, bringing our troops home, but most of all, we have to realize it is not credible to simultaneously say that you oppose the war in Iraq and continue to fund it.
And so I'm challenging all of the Democratic candidates for president on this point. If you vote for funding for the war, don't tell the American people you're opposed to the war.
If you vote for funding for the war, don't bemoan the plight of the troops.
We can bring those troops home right now. I listened to Jack Cafferty...
BLITZER: What...
KUCINICH: ... Jack Cafferty's report. I mean our hearts go out to all of those families whose sons and daughters are paying a horrible price for the misjudgment of this administration.
BLITZER: You want the U.S. troops out as quickly as possible, is that right?
KUCINICH: That's absolutely right. And the money...
BLITZER: What...
KUCINICH: Moreover, the money is there, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, so what moral responsibility do you believe, if any, the United States has to all of those Iraqis who supported the U.S. who worked with the U.S. who potentially could be butchered if the U.S. pulls out?
KUCINICH: Our first responsibility is to bring our troops home. We have a responsibility to all of the Iraqi people. But we cannot fulfill that responsibility by continuing the occupation. We have to rally the world community, Wolf. And this means talking to people who ordinarily we may not want to talk to, people in Syria and Iran. We can use that as an opportunity for a whole new peace plan in the region, to finally look at those issues which are dividing the Israelis and the Palestinians.
I mean all these things are linked together and Americans want a leader who sees that, one who's been clear from the beginning -- and I have been. And I can win because of that clarity, because of that foresight and because of my willingness to stand up and speak out, to take a stand to bring these troops home now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Dennis Kucinich speaking with me earlier. He's been very consistent over these past several years on his opposition to this war.
Up ahead tonight: Senator Hillary Clinton's book tour. Could it be the start of a presidential race?
And later: a whole new generation of televangelism. The son of Jimmy and Tammy Faye Baker preaching a revolutionary message. Carol Costello has a story you're going to want to see. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: They're the top two picks among Democrats looking toward the 2008 race for the White House. And in recent days Illinois Senator Barack Obama has been stealing the spotlight from New York Senator Hillary Clinton. But that may soon change.
Let's turn to CNN's Mary Snow. She's watching this story for us from New York -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Wolf, Senator Clinton has a new version of an old book. It'll mean some television interviews and some book signings. And for a person who plays it close to the vest, anything she has to say will be closely watched and will no doubt put her back in the spotlight she's now sharing with Senator Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Sometimes, it takes a book tour. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is re-releasing "It Takes a Village" to mark its 10th anniversary. It contains a new introduction and a chance to draw some attention.
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the book tour will give Hillary Clinton an opportunity to garnish some of the news attention away from Barack Obama who basically has had the stage to himself since the 2006 midterms.
SNOW: That stage for Senator Obama has included a book tour of his own. On Monday, it even gained him a primetime appearance on "Monday Night Football" when he joked about his plans for 2008.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) ILLINOIS: So tonight, I'd like to put all the doubts to rest, I would like to announce to my hometown of Chicago and all of America that I am ready. For the Bears to go all the way, baby, da-da-da-da!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Barack Obama!
SNOW: Obama's appearance capped off a weekend in New Hampshire where he was greeted like a star. While he's been taking center stage, New York's junior senator has been working a different strategy, talking privately with Democrats from New Hampshire and Iowa, early deciding states of presidential races. On Monday though, she did talk publicly for the first time about those talks and her decision about whether to run in '08.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: And I'm talking to people who have opinions about what our country needs to do going forward. And whether or not I, you know, make any decisions about that, I won't, you know, really confront until after the first of the year.
SNOW: But will her timing change because of all of the attention given to Senator Obama? Some political observers say it's possible, but unlikely, since Senator Clinton is known for being meticulous.
STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: My guess, however, is that they're going to pretty much follow their schedule, their plan, in fact, I think it would be unwise for them to overreact to the early attention to Senator Obama.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW ( on camera): And political observers say Senator Clinton can afford to wait before jumping in the ring because after her re- election Senate campaign, she already has a staff, an organization and has raised plenty of money, with about $14 million in cash on hand -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Mary, thank you for that.
Meanwhile, the former vice president, Al Gore, is going online to organize viewing parties, as they're called, nationwide for his global warming film entitled "An Inconvenient Truth". Is it a convenient opportunity to come clean on whether he's going to run in 2008?
Let's turn to Jacki Schechner for tha -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Al Gore's using his website and teaming up with moveon.org, the liberal political action committee, to spread the word about global warming. They're encouraging people to hold viewing parties to watch the documentary "An Inconvenient Truth". There's more than 1,600 gatherings planned so far. And partygoers will be able to call into a conference call with Al Gore, who will be on the phone from Nashville. Now, on his website it says that he plans to deliver messages to Washington next year. So we asked if there was going to be an important political announcement on that conference call. But a spokeswoman said that Al Gore's campaign is global warming and that's what we can expect from the call.
Now, interesting that a co-sponsor of the viewing parties is johnkerry.com. Another potential '08 candidate, Kerry's already got an e-mail list of some three million strong, and he's sending out a note saying that Al Gore is a strong leader and deserves support when it comes to spreading the message about global warming -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Jacki, thanks for that.
And he's one of the most important people on the world stage, but could he also become this year's Person of the Year?
Here's CNN's Soledad O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): He's already been chosen twice as president and as "Time" magazine's person of the year. This time, George W. Bush makes the list again. But it's a more complicated calculation.
JOSH TYRANGIEL, TIME WRITER/REPORTER: Every year, somebody can make the argument that the president of the United States is the person of the year. Because it's the most powerful office in the world, there's no question. And so, even in a year where there's not a war, where there's not a diplomatic brouhaha, you could say, yeah, it's a no-brainer, president of the United States. I happen to think this year was about President Bush losing control and not gaining control. And this year, the world changed him.
STEVE KOEPP, TIME DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR: This has happened to Bush. He's getting a lot of direction from the people he has to respond to now in Congress. He now has appointed a commission to think of what to do about Iraq. He may be successful and the country will be successful. But it's not him carrying out a plan that he engineered or one that really he's going to do all by himself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Our sister publication "Time Magazine" will reveal this year's Person of the Year right here on CNN. That airs Saturday night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, this Saturday night.
Still ahead here in the SITUATION ROOM: finding his religion. The son of Jimmy and Tammy Faye Baker goes back to his Christian roots and preaches a revolutionary message.
You're going to want to see this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: In the "Culture Wars" tonight, his last name is infamous, and to many synonymous with scandal and hypocrisy, but the son of disgraced televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker is now trying to shed their past and build his own unconventional ministry. Let's turn to CNN's Carol Costello. She's in New York.
She's got this amazing story -- Carol.
COSTELLO: It's a pretty interesting story. You know, that infamous name Bakker is hard to escape. Growing up fully aware of Jay Bakker's parents, I didn't know what to expect when I met their 31- year-old son. Let me put it this way -- he is no Jim Bakker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAY BAKKER, PASTOR, CHURCH CO-FOUNDER: Jesus is reaching out to those who people didn't like.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Inclusion is the message here, a shabby chic Brooklyn bar where people gather to hear a punk rock preacher, Jay Bakker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If these were your parents, what would you do? Love and stand by them? Follow in their footsteps or question all you've been taught, briefly self-destruct and turn religion on its head?
BAKKER: The answer -- all of the above.
COSTELLO: Bakker's parents are fallen televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye. He's using their sins and becoming the it preacher, the subject of a reality series on the Sundance Channel, his face plastered on buses along with his not so hip message, it's cool to be Christian.
(on camera): To some, Christian is a dirty word, Christian is something that you run from.
BAKKER: You hear the word "Christian" you automatically think, oh, you're Jerry Falwell, you know.
COSTELLO: Or Jim Bakker.
BAKKER: Or Jim Bakker, yes, you know.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Insert whatever irony you want here. His father Jim Bakker led the Praise the Lord ministry, he was the it preacher of the Christian right in the '80s, raking in at his peak $172 million in revenue, until Bakker went morally bust after a sexual tryst with church secretary Jessica Hahn. He wound up in jail for stealing from his followers. But that was back in '89 and the sins of the father have been forgiven.
BAKKER: I get along with my dad pretty well. I mean, we have our struggles and we're constantly trying to work things out as father and son. JIM BAKKER, TELEVANGELIST: Great to have you all here today, my son is in the house! He's trying to hide the fact that he's my son, you know. And so he has tattoos.
(CROSSTALK)
JAY BAKKER: Look, I got a PTL tattoo.
COSTELLO: Jim Bakker now has a new TV ministry himself, but don't confuse it with his son's. Jay's Revolution Church strives to be boldly different. It's motto? We're sorry for being self- righteous, judgmental bastards and for injecting ourselves in places we don't belong.
JAY BAKKER: The conservative right has hijacked politics but I think they've worked off of each other, I think they've used each other, and to me, it's caused the church to be in quite a sad state right now.
COSTELLO: Sad, because the religious right, Jay says, is so unforgiving in its moral judgments. That's why gays, pro- abortionists, everyone is welcome in his Revolution Church.
As for whether Jay Bakker's new kind of church will ever be as big as his father's ministry once was, forget it. As Bakker puts it, we are not about celebrity and all about message.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: A word about Jay's mom, Tammy Faye Bakker. She's suffering from stage 4 lung cancer. She's now in hospice and has always had a very close relationship with her son, Jay. Jay has nothing but lovely, warm things to say about his mom, but Wolf, she's not doing so well. In fact, she's hanging in there, but it doesn't look good.
BLITZER: Well, we wish her only the best. Thanks for that excellent report, Carol. We'll see you back here tomorrow.
And coming up at the top of the hour, a CNN special, "SKIN DEEP: RACISM IN AMERICA."
Joining us with a preview, Paula Zahn -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. Thanks. And we're going to devote the entire hour to the subject of racism in America. Michael Richards' on-stage rant was a wake-up call for us all. And one of the things we're going to show for -- show you tonight that I think many people will find stunning are some polls we commissioned for this hour. Check this out.
We asked both blacks and whites how serious of a problem racism is in America today. The vast majority of both say it is a problem. And then try to in some way connect that to this result. When we asked if the U.S. is ready for a black president 65 percent of whites said yes, 54 percent of blacks said yes. There are a lot of contradictions in these numbers, Wolf. We're going to talk about that and how racism has dramatically changed over the last 30 years but it certainly exists and in many cases it's subtle and just under the surface.
And you will hear from, among others, Reverend Jesse Jackson and Reverend Sharpton tonight as they weigh in on all these numbers.
And oh, by the way, the majority of both blacks and whites don't admit to being racist when we have researchers tonight that say we all carry biases in us.
BLITZER: An important hour coming up right after us. Thanks, Paula, for that.
Still ahead -- losing faith. The American people rank members of Congress right down there with lawyers and used car salesmen. So what does Congress have to do to get higher marks for ethics and honesty? Jack will be right back with your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's Jack in New York -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: What does Congress have to do to get higher marks for ethics and honesty than HMO managers and car salesmen?
Jim in Florida: "Simple, Jack. All they have to do, listen to the American people rather than their parties, the executive branch, and the special interests. They're supposed to work for us."
Sam in Chicago: "It's fair to say people get most of their impression of politicians from the news networks, and the media only offer criticisms and never highlight anything good the politicians are doing. It is as if the media never have anything nice to say about anyone in Washington anymore, and I think that's a bit unfair."
Barbara in Michigan: "Just because HMO managers and used car salesmen are the cockroaches of our society, you don't need to insult them by comparing them to members of Congress."
Jay in New York: "The Ethics Committee said it. They whitewashed the Foley responsibility, saying that there was neglect but no one was neglectful. They've assumed a criminal mentality that they are all above accountability."
Ike writes, "This has already been figured out for them. All they have to do is read the Constitution and do what it says."
And Patrick in Manhattan Beach, California: "I don't think Congress needs to worry about falling to the level of lawyers and car salesmen. There's still plenty of room below those groups, in the domain of television commentators and plant life."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read more of them online. Touche. BLITZER: Yes, touche, journalists not much higher if higher at all. You and me -- that would be you and me, Jack. See you tomorrow. All right, thanks very much.
That's all the time we have. Remember we're back 4:00 p.m. tomorrow. Up next, a special edition of "PAULA ZAHN NOW," "SKIN DEEP: RACISM IN AMERICA."
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