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The Situation Room
Hope and Heartbreak on Mt. Hood; Will More American Troops Be Sent to War?; Same-Sex Unions Divide the Episcopal Church
Aired December 18, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, heartbreak and hope on Mount Hood -- it's 2:00 p.m. in Oregon, where search teams use a break in the weather to hunt for those two missing climbers after a third is found dead.
We're standing by for a news conference shortly with the latest on the search efforts.
It's 5:00 p.m. at the Pentagon, where a new defense secretary now on the job, with dire warnings about the price of failure in Iraq.
Will more American troops soon be sent off to war?
And same-sex unions divide the Episcopal Church. It's 5:00 p.m. in Virginia. A parish where George Washington once prayed is among those now breaking away.
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Hope on Mount Hood, where officials say the search for two missing climbers is still a rescue operation, even as crews attempt to remove the body of a third climber found in a snow cave.
The family of Kelly James says it was a ring on his finger that confirmed his identity. And James' brother Frank adds he considers the two men still missing, Brian Hall and Jerry Cooke, his brothers, as well.
Let's turn to CNN's Dan Simon.
He's joining us now from Hood River, Oregon with the latest -- what is the latest that we know right now, Dan?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we are expecting a news conference to happen in the next few minutes. Apparently, it's been delayed a bit, but still expected to begin shortly.
Two things happening at this hour.
One, the search continues to find these other two missing climbers. And, second, things are progressing in terms of removing Kelly James' body from the mountain.
It's not clear in terms of how he died. The details surrounding his death still are unclear. It's believed that he died of hypothermia. But we won't know that until an autopsy is performed.
In any case, authorities today expressed deep, deep regret that they were not able to get to him when he was still alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JOE WAMPLER, HOOD RIVER COUNTY, OREGON: We failed him. We literally failed him. But, you know, we tried our best. I know that. We had the best people in the best places. But there's still a chance because of that issue right there and we're going to keep going because of it for the other two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: James' brother, Frank James, going out of his way to praise the rescuers today. He's done that throughout this entire ordeal. But he also talked about those other two climbers and how he prays that there will be a positive outcome when it comes to them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK JAMES, BROTHER OF DEAD CLIMBER: And the James family is deeply, deeply grateful for the rescue efforts to date. And we wish -- we wish the rescue workers Godspeed in their ongoing efforts to bring Brian and Jerry down that mountain safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: Obviously a very emotional Frank James earlier this morning.
Again, Wolf, a press conference expected to begin in just a few minutes.
But in terms of the search for these other two missing climbers, we are told they are searching in an area called The Gulleys. This is beneath those two snow caves that were discovered yesterday.
One of the theories is, is that these two climbers fell when they were trying to escape the dangerous weather.
But there's still a lot of details we don't know, Wolf. We don't know why these three climbers separated. We don't know the circumstances surrounding James' death and also the fate of these two climbers, still unknown.
We're hoping to get some of these answers and perhaps we'll get a bit more perspective when this news conference begins, again, in just a few minutes -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Have they actually brought the body down yet, from the mountain? SIMON: That has not been confirmed. We were told that it wasn't going to take all that long when we talked to you last hour. We talked to Captain Chris Bernard, who said it was taking place.
But in terms of if the body is down, we just don't know. Again, that news conference should shed some light on that -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And we know it's delayed a little bit.
Who is going to be at the news conference? Do we know that?
SIMON: Well, Captain Chris Bernard is going to be there and also Sheriff Joe Wampler. He's with the Hood River Sheriff's Department.
Those two guys have really done an outstanding job working with the media, working with us, giving us all the details. They've been extremely accessible.
The family has been that way, as well, Wolf, you know, quite -- quite incredible that Mr. James took the time today to address the media. He really wanted to thank the rescuers for all the work they did to try to save his brother. Unfortunately, a horrible outcome. But he felt it necessary to take to the cameras and express his gratitude -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And we'll keep our camera on those microphones there and bring the news conference to our viewers as soon as it starts.
Dan, thanks very much.
We'll check back with you, as well.
And as we've seen, weather a key factor in this rescue operation.
Our meteorologist, Rob Marciano, has the latest conditions for us from the CNN Weather Center in Atlanta -- Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Wolf, the weather conditions today on Mount Hood almost as ideal as yesterday. Some morning clouds, low clouds giving way to sunshine above about the 2,500-foot mark.
Here's what we know about the mountain. Again, they went up the northern flank near the cloud cap road area and then made their way up the Elliott Glacier on the northeast side of the mountain. This is popular for ice climbers during the wintertime. It's a more stable environment because it's pretty much all ice.
And some of these walls along the Elliott Glacier are just walls of sheer ice. And hand-over-hand with ice axes is the way they climb up.
We're believed to know that these guys did make summit and then made their way down this Elliott -- the Cooper Spur route, which is just to the left of this glacier, a pretty dangerous descent. There have been fatalities as recently as 1999 along that route. So they peeled off, for whatever reason, and made a snow cave below -- about 300 feet below the summit and through the Newton-Clark Glacier, which is very steep, as well.
Where they went -- where the other two climbers went from there, we just don't know.
What we do know about the weather is that I will be warming over the next day-and-a-half. That is good news for avalanche control. It will help settle the snow pack.
But after the next day-and-a-half, the next storm to come in will do so on Wednesday.
You see the satellite picture behind me. There are some high clouds beginning to work their way into the Pacific Northwest. But this is not a strong storm and it is approaching at an angle. So it will be fairly weak when it does come in. But any weather on the mountain is significant and it won't be nearly as good as today on Wednesday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Well, let's hope they can find these guys before then, Rob.
Thank you very much.
And there you see a live picture we're getting in from Mount Hood. Those are the microphones. We'll bring you the news conference as soon as those authorities show up. It's been delayed a little bit, but we'll stay on top of this story for you.
Meanwhile, President Bush today got another reality check from the American public. His approval rating on Iraq is now at an all time low. Our latest poll shows only 28 percent approve of the way the president is handling the war. That's down 6 points since October.
Fully 70 percent disapprove of the way he is handling the situation in Iraq.
The president today got a new point man as far as Iraq is concerned, saying Defense Secretary Robert Gates is the right man for the job. That comes as debate sharpens over a possible increase in U.S. troop strength.
Let's go live to our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we're really, perhaps, as little as two weeks away from an announcement from the president about changes in tactics regarding the Iraq War and U.S. policy.
But two things have to happen first. First, the official swearing in of his new secretary of defense. And, second, his secretary of defense going to the region, getting a sense of what Iraq is like firsthand.
Well, today, one of those things happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: ... against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Swearing in his new defense secretary, President Bush stated the obvious.
BUSH: We are a nation at war.
MALVEAUX: His plan to end the war is anything but.
GATES: Failure in Iraq at this juncture would be a calamity that would haunt our nation, impair our credibility and endanger Americans for decades to come.
MALVEAUX: Considering those tremendous stakes, it's not surprising the president's pitch man is being extremely cautious about giving anything away.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This it not like solving a crossword puzzle. It, in fact, is a highly complex situation where you are talking about the dispositions of tens of thousands of troops already in the country and you are dealing with international coalitions and a whole series of other considerations.
MALVEAUX: One option the president is considering, a senior administration official confirmed, is to temporarily increase U.S. troops, while the Iraqi government gets its political house in order.
Over the weekend, President Bush's former secretary of state, Colin Powell, poured cold water on that idea, saying the U.S. Army is now almost broken.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "FACE THE NATION," COURTESY CBS)
COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I am not persuaded that another surge of troops into Baghdad for the purpose of suppressing this communitarian violence or civil war will work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Persuading Powell isn't a priority, the White House insisted, in its attempt to downplay his criticism.
Aides say the president is weighing his numerous options for changing tactics in Iraq following his consultations last week with Iraqi leaders and advisers at the Pentagon and State.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
MALVEAUX: And, Wolf, sources tell us that one group, a conservative think tank here in Washington, the American Enterprise Institute, does have the president's ear and some suggestions that officials have been briefed on and that they are very interested in. One of those -- I spoke with a member of that group, saying that, look, they are dismissing the Iraq Study Group's recommendation to move from U.S. military on the front lines to training Iraqi forces. And they, too, agree that there should be a surge in U.S. troops in Baghdad -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Suzanne, thanks very much.
Let's go to the news conference out at Mount Hood.
The search continuing for those two missing climbers.
CAPT. CHRIS BERNARD, AIR FORCE RESERVE: ... and that will stop or the family has decided that they will not be available in any way, shape or form.
So long as the family's privacy is respected, they will make themselves available, at their discretion, when we have these established press conferences.
But I will make it clear -- please understand -- you must respect the privacy of the families. It is absolutely essential.
With that, I'd like to turn it over to the sheriff to give up the update.
WAMPLER: OK, now, what's going on now, we haven't -- we're still in -- doing our recovery mission. The guys on the mountain haven't -- it's taken a lot longer than we kind of thought. But things are going good. We're probably at least 30 -- about 30 minutes away from having the helicopters in position to do this and then another helicopter in position to recover our guys on the mountain.
The reason it's taken a little longer today is while we're there, I've asked the mountaineering rescue team to do a good job of documenting the area, the caves that we're working with and conduct a little bit, you know, the best investigation that they probably can while they're today of what may have happened to the other two climbers.
So that's what's going on right now. That's why it's taking a little longer. And in the meantime, I've got two helicopters, one dedicated to the summit recovery team, two Blackhawk helicopters dedicated to still keeping searching today.
We identified the areas right below the anchor in the snow cave -- and I'll show you where that is on a map here -- and the fall line below that area, to the top of Elliott Glacier. A helicopter went in there this morning and -- because we can't walk in there -- and tried with his rotor wash to stir it up as much as he could. You know, maybe it would uncover something. You know, we're still looking for that glove or anything.
And he did a really good job in there this morning and then over on the Newton-Clark side, which is the east side of the mountain, we want to make sure we cover that whole thing.
Basically, between Mount Hood Meadows and cloud cap, clear down into the tree line and then the snow areas inside the tree lines, between yesterday and today, we've done a pretty good job visually of checking those areas. But those are areas that we've been checking all week with Nordic skiers and climbers right along the timber line trying to intercept some kind of trail coming off the mountain.
What we're doing right now in the search is we checked the Elliott Glacier pretty good today, because we haven't been able to put people on foot, actually, everywhere on the glacier because it's full of crevasses. It hasn't had time all winter long to fill with snow and freeze up.
So we made sure that visually, from an aerial platform, that we could look down into every crack we probably -- that we could.
We kind of moved around to the north side of the mountain, to the Coe Glacier area. We want to make sure -- because that -- there's a possibility that from the summit ridge you could actually go west and drop down the north side of the mountain.
So we're checking that area for snow caves, any tracks. But all the searching we've done there this morning haven't revealed any more evidence than right there at the snow caves.
We're also wanting to check the south side of the mountain above timber line in case they got from Leuthold-Collier back toward the Pearly Gates, which is the main summit route to -- of the south side of Mount Hood.
So that's what we've got going right now.
I can point out the area right here that the caves were found in. And basically this -- the world lays like this and this is the east side of the mountain. This is Newton-Clark Glacier. We're at the summit ridge. About where this circle is drawn on here is the area where the body was found in the snow cave, the larger snow cave.
And then just north of that is Cooper Spur. And this is Elliott Glacier down in here.
Well, this area between here is about 2,500 foot, a fairly vertical area. This is where they climbed up to the summit. It looks like they went this way on the summit ridge, maybe have spent a night there altogether and then it looks like two climbers may have worked their way back.
This is the area which is called The Gulleys, as I talked about this morning. It's just a steep gulley just coming off the top of the mountain. The other snow cave was found right at the very -- the top of that gulley, virtually, and with an anchor.
And because there was a couple of ice axes left there, we -- we're assuming that's the last known point of the two climbers that were descending. So, anyway, this is all the area that we've been searching, mainly, right here, the side of the mountain that they know that they've been on, and down to the tree line, down to Highway 35.
Cloud cap in, clear down here, is the area that we're working out of, our forward base camp that the searchers have been working out of all week. And then Timberline Lodge on the south side. They've been coming up this way. Right now, with the aircraft, we're finishing up some visual searches off the north side of the mountain.
We've got a fixed wing aircraft that's been working the tree line down, back this way toward Parkdale. Pretty much we think -- but the helicopters have been clear around the mountain, covering everything, in case they got to the top of the mountain and went some other direction but just haven't seen any evidence that they did a whole lot of traveling out of this area right here.
But we've looked visually everywhere.
Some of this area is impossible at this time of year to get in on feet, by foot. But it's -- visual reference from the air has been pretty good. This last three days has been really good flying weather. Visibility is great. So we've done all of that.
So, anyway, that's where we're at right now until we get down off the mountain and have a chance to talk to the guys and see what evidence they've uncovered up there.
QUESTION: Sheriff, what is...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... some of the obstacles you've had to overcome to recover the body?
WAMPLER: Some of the obstacles?
Working on ice and snow, steep terrain. Right at the summit ridge there's actually, because of so much wind and snow, this last week, there's a big cornice at the top that is an avalanche danger. And they're working right below those cornices.
So those are the big obstacles.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... going to have any rescuers there overnight?
WAMPLER: On the mountain?
No. No rescues on the mountain overnight -- rescuers. What we're doing every night -- I mean these guys are working so hard in a harsh environment that as long as we have transportation for these folks with the helicopters, we're yanking them off the mountain so that they're comfortable at night.
QUESTION: Sheriff, at what point (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
WAMPLER: Oh, gosh, when I've done everything humanly possible is when I bring those other two climbers home.
QUESTION: How close are you to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
WAMPLER: And I -- not until I get them. And I don't -- I can't tell you when that's going to be. I think weather is going to -- I think our search has narrowed to a point where some of the assets we're just not going to need anymore.
But they're going to be available to us. I think what we're going to be doing now is really concentrating in certain areas on foot. It's going to be regulated -- I mean our amount of time is going to be strictly -- greatly regulated by the weather and the snow conditions in those areas.
And that's the area -- because the top of Cooper -- of Elliott Glacier is really where we want to be. You know, we want to find them in this snow cave that they built someplace else on the mountain. That's what we're looking for now.
But if we don't find them there, I think we're going to have to start poking in the snow. We're going to have to do an avalanche type search at the top of Elliott Glacier.
That area has been sloughing off all week. From last weekend to this weekend, because of snow off the mountain, blowing snow collecting in the -- it's a collection area -- there's as much as 10 feet of new snow that these guys, if there was an accident situation, could be under.
That's what we're dealing with at the top of Elliott Glacier.
QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
WAMPLER: You know, I'd be real concerned about survivability if there was an accident and now they've been covered up by ongoing avalanches and things like that.
If that's where they're at, I think we've got some real problems. And we just need to figure out a way to get up in there when the mountain says it's time for us -- to let us in there and do the avalanche probe thing.
But we're really looking everywhere else. I mean we're still looking for that cave in the snow, that hole in the snow while we have an opportunity to do that. And that's where we're at.
QUESTION: So (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from the point, from the point there at the top of Elliott Glacier, there's this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anything at all? You've got something that shows them going through that spot (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
WAMPLER: We've got footprints that we really believe were made on their ascent. Up through The Gulleys, from the top of Elliott Glacier to the top of the mountain. So we know they were there. But then these footprints, because of the snow and stuff, they're only -- they're only visible where the area is the steepest on the mountain and the wind has been blowing the snow off and it's not sticking.
You get kind of down low and then all that evidence has been covered up by new snow. And that's our real problem.
Now, where these footprints are on the steep part of the mountain, there's -- we haven't seen any evidence that sometimes happens when there's a fall -- divot marks, tumbling. We haven't seen that. A lot of times during an avalanche a rope or something will stay on the surface. We haven't seen that.
But like I say, I've got the best eyes. I mean they're down in there as close as they can get, looking for that one piece.
QUESTION: Is this the toughest thing you've ever dealt with in your career?
WAMPLER: No. It's not the toughest. We've had several accidents in this area before. Somebody asked me earlier how many dead people do I know about in this exact area. Well, last count, the last 40 years, it was about 13 in this very same area because of climbing accidents, which doesn't mean it's the most dangerous climbing route in the world at all.
It's just that it's pretty -- pretty unforgiving when there is a problem.
QUESTION: Sheriff, does any of the equipment you've recovered or found or looked at show any evidence of damage or suggestion that there might have been an accident?
WAMPLER: OK. The equipment yesterday that was found was above, you know, where the anchor was, which is at the top of The Gulleys right here, going down into there. It was an anchor point and a snow cave -- or at least a place where they'd dug out of the snow, that they could hunker in for a while out of the wind.
There was two ice axes, one glove, this little thin foam sleeping pad about this long. And then that was it. That was it.
I'm real concerned that the ice axes were left behind at all, because that's something necessary to operate in this part of the mountain. So that's a huge concern that there was anything left behind at all there.
QUESTION: Sheriff, just to review, can you tell us again where you're going to take Kelly James' body and is there any obvious trauma to his body?
WAMPLER: Well, again, I don't have it down. I mean that's what we want to do. We want to get that guy down, look him over and see if there's any trauma or anything, you know, what might have happened to cause them to get split up.
QUESTION: Where are you going to take him?
WAMPLER: Actually, the plan is, is to bring him down here to Hood River and to the county medical examiner and have him looked over.
QUESTION: Sheriff, given that you've made some educated guesses as to where you believe they might be, but there are no physical signs, would you characterize this as kind of like looking for a needle in a haystack?
WAMPLER: Oh, it is. It has been from day one. When I -- whenever we get a call that somebody is lost on the mountain, you know, you've got to ask all those questions -- you know, where were they.
Now, these guys left a trail better than most, let me tell you. So we kind of knew where to start looking.
But then, looking for three people on a very huge mountain is a needle in a haystack.
QUESTION: We've been told that some climbers in these routes, at the dangerous points, carry more than one ice ax.
Is it possible that they left some behind and left with an ice ax?
WAMPLER: Possible. Not likely because ice axes and ropes are your lifeline. And, you know, of all the things I'd leave behind, you know, those are your shoes for your hands. And of all the things I'd leave behind, I wouldn't leave those.
QUESTION: Are the rope (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
WAMPLER: OK, there was a piece of rope found, some that they left up there yesterday because some wind came up and they lost it. But it's right there. They're going to recover it today. They're going to look that stuff over and now, I will tell you that they did find one piece of rope, a piece of climbing rope that was of big concern to us because it looked like it had been cut with a knife. But it wasn't anchored to anything.
The last thing I'd do is cut my climbing rope, let me tell you, unless I really needed to use it for something else, you know, to tie something up or something. So that -- that's a big concern, too.
QUESTION: What do you think could have happened?
WAMPLER: You know, again, I don't know. I think they were trying to get down off the mountain because that's what Kelly James last said, that, you know, his climbing buddies had left to go get help. And in the weather at the time that Kelly was making his call, it was getting worse and worse and worse.
So if they had waited that long, you know, and been as light as they, you know, we think that they were, then they were cold, wet, you know, and really desperate to get off that mountain.
So, boy, I don't know.
QUESTION: Have the search teams examined the Y-shaped formation, everything around it and in it?
WAMPLER: Yes, the Y-shaped formation is an anchor. I mean it's two aluminum snow anchors that are pounded in the snow and then some nylon webbing tied to that. But that's -- that's the picture you see. That's what's making the "Y."
Now, I think the picture that's -- that I've seen of it like in the papers is a little bit confusing, because it kind of shows it this way, like it's horizontal on the mountain. Well, I think it needs to be turned by gravity and show that it's pointing straight down the hill, like it actually is.
QUESTION: Excuse me, so that "Y" was not a yes, we are here "Y," but rather an anchor point?
WAMPLER: Oh, no. It wasn't a signal. No, it was definitely just an anchor left in the snow and we were fortune enough to see that. I mean, you know, of all the needles in the haystacks, seeing that was one.
QUESTION: How burdensome is this for you, because you're the one -- this all falls on your shoulders. You're going to be the one that's going to decide when to stop searching.
I mean how difficult is it for you to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
WAMPLER: Oh, no this is what I do. It's my job. Hey, you know, we -- so it's now burdensome at all. Now, this is a big event, huge. I mean, you know we have -- the whole perimeter around the whole of Mt. Hood. It takes a lot of people to do that and a lot of coordination. The federal government and the state of Oregon has, you know, virtually given me all of the assets -- what do I want to say? People, equipment, to deal with this issue. I mean, you know, I have the United States military here. I have at my disposal and they have been wonderful, you know, to help me deal with you, to help me deal with all the logistics of coordinating aircraft, volunteers. The volunteer part of this thing is something that always happens on Mt. Hood. That is in place. We have a thing called the Mt. Hood Search and Rescue Council, it's a consortium of sheriff's offices and search and rescue groups. That's where the pool comes from to do this thing. Clackamas(ph) County Sheriff's Office, you know, they are coordinating the same effort on their side of the mountain that we are doing here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it fair to say that the primary operating theory at this point is that those two did have some kind of accident, that they fell down the mountain and are buried beneath the snow?
WAMPLER: I'm real concerned that they disappeared after going for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that the primary theory? WAMPLER: That's a real theory that we're looking at, that there was an accident. But again, Mt. Hood right now, this time of year, I mean, if they got down to the tree line, that's still a big problem because the snow is six feet deep, walking through trees, impossible. They didn't take their snow shoes with them. And I would hate to think that they got that far and then got stuck and we haven't found them yet. So I mean, we are -- we are going to make sure we cover it all -- but I, you know, I have to tell myself all the time that Mother Nature this week put on a coat. And a lot of those things are covered up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
WAMPLER: Oh yeah, you know fortunately enough we were lucky enough to find those snow caves, find one person. You know, I don't like the result of it, but we did that. That's a huge thing for those people out there doing this. I have two more to go get.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how would you characterize the probability of survival?
WAMPLER: You know, like I say, I was worried from day one. We're getting into some operational periods here that greatly reduces that. You know, I -- I keep talking to the survival experts, doctors and you know. If they didn't get in a hole somewhere, no, I -- we may be actually beyond some survivability periods. But, you know, you guys have done a good job with that. There's possibility. You can last a long time in a hole so we're going to keep looking at that hole. You know, I -- but I don't want it to appear that we're not looking as hard as we have been at all. Because all we have done is -- are narrowing this thing down. We're going to let some people go here today actually. But they're just going to go home and be on standby and maintain their machines and we're going to keep some people going into these areas as much as we can. Now, weather is a window so we're going to -- next few days we're going to keep doing some things real hard. We think it's going to rain and snow some more. I think that's going to drive us out of the woods.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What don't you think you will need? You said you might be turning back personnel, what won't you need?
WAMPLER: I don't know what I won't need but what I do know is when I do need something based on what we come up with, even over the next few days, it's sitting there waiting for me if I need it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think you'll be able to put searchers on the ground tomorrow?
WAMPLER: You know, we're going to try. We're going to try to do that. A lot of what we're going to be doing like especially at the top of Elliott Glacier, you know that -- that's a huge issue for us. We want to get in there and, you know, close that door. But we have to have people right there all the time observing, you know, what the mountains are doing and so we're -- you know, most of our efforts are going to be observational and having people positioned in place so right now is a good time. I mean, you know, if somebody tells me we can get some people in there and spend a few hours probing, we're going to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
WAMPLER: There's a lot of different methods, one is you know -- because we're just going to go around with some metal detectors and look down through there. The other is the actual avalanche-type probe where we get people side by side with some conduits and they have special metal rods, we poke down in the ground and try to feel for things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next bad weather is going to spell an end to the hope?
WAMPLER: Well, you know, I -- it's going to hurt our efforts. You know, I hope the families never give up hope. But, you know, it's going to really hurt our efforts because we're just not going to be able to be there. I mean, this is winter time in the northwest and you know, when the weather does turn nasty, gosh, you just can't do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long will folks be stationed on the mountain? When do you decide to pull them off?
WAMPLER: How long are we going to keep people stationed, we're going to do two more days of searching because we kind of think we have that ground window. We're going to concentrate most of our efforts on the north side of the mountain. I -- forecasts tell me that we may have to take a break about Wednesday. I appreciate it, any questions of these guys because they have been wonderful?
The actual cave, see, we think that they -- they went right -- climbed right up through here, summit Mt. Hood and then went south down the ridge about 400 feet, dropped over to the east, above the Newton Clark Glacier area. And then all three spent some time digging a large enough hole in the snow for all thee of them to crawl into. That's where we're recovering a body from as we speak. That's where we think Kelly James made his phone call from, at this point right here. And then two climbers left from there because we can see some tracks in the snow, back to the north where they set an anchor. And usually that anchor is, you know, not set there so you can just stay there, but so you can have an anchor point to set a rope in to descend from, whether they repel, with that type of an anchor. And it's directly above Elliott Glacier.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cave in which that phone call was made from, was that the same cave where the body was found?
WAMPLER: We think that the call was made from that cave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's the same cave where the body was found?
WAMPLER: That's the three-man cave. That's -- that's where they all spent the night together. I will say I think that call was made from that cave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where the body was later found, same cave?
WAMPLER: Same cave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How far down did that rope go connected to that anchor?
WAMPLER: Well it actually doesn't go down from there. It was laying there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there was nothing connected to the anchor?
WAMPLER: There was nothing connected to the anchor. Ok, thank you, appreciate your help guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the rope was cut at that anchor?
WAMPLER: Yes, because it was still there.
BLITZER: Sheriff Joe Wampler speaking to reporters for about a half-hour or so, updating us on what's going on and he's very, very blunt. Suggesting this is like searching for a needle in a haystack, although he's promising to continue -- the search continuing for those two missing climbers Brian Hall and Jerry Cooke. Let's get some more now on this search for those missing climbers on Oregon's Mt. Hood, Steve Rollins is the president of the Portland Mountain Rescue, he's been taking part in the operation, he's joining us now on the phone. I have to tell you Steve, listening to the sheriff, it does not sound very hopeful but I assume there still is hope.
STEVE ROLLINS, PRESIDENT, PORTLAND MOUNTAIN RESCUE: Well, as rescuers, I think we have to be the eternal optimist. You just can't lose hope or just -- it's going to impact your ability to search well. So, you know, we do our very best but obviously you know it's been a week of really rough weather and chances of survival decrease over time. So we're all very, very concerned.
BLITZER: Based on what you noted and from what we just heard from the sheriff, was there any reason to be a little bit more hopeful based on the information coming in from today's search?
ROLLINS: Well, you know, after a week of no clues whatsoever, no needles in that proverbial haystack, I think, you know the discovery, the snow cave, the anchor, all that, gives us a lot of hope at the very least to have an idea of where these individuals went. Because prior to having those clues, we didn't have any idea where on the mountain the other two individuals would be. At least we have some hints on the direction they may have traveled.
BLITZER: We've heard miraculous stories in the past of people surviving on -- in those kinds of conditions for a week, two weeks, 13 days in one particular case. How long realistically can those two guys survive under those horrible conditions that have existed now for some time?
ROLLINS: You know it really depends on what kind of equipment they had and we still don't know specifically what kind of survival gear they had. Also, depends on the ability to dig a snow cave, an adequate one and maintain that shelter. Digging a snow cave you can get very wet doing that. And that obviously lends itself to hypothermia. So, hopefully with all the years of experience they dug a good one and they were careful not to get too wet in the process.
BLITZER: Let's hope for the best and pray for the best. Steve Rollins, the president of the Portland Mountain Rescue. We'll stay in touch with you and we'll be hoping for the best as the search continues for Brian Hall and Jerry Cooke. We'll stay on top of this story. Other news we're following, a House divided, two historic parishes voting to leave the Episcopal Church. We're going to show you what's driving the split. And there are major new developments in the search for a serial killer wanted in the deaths of five women. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: Let's go to Carol Costello once again for a closer look at some other stories making news around the world. Carol?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Wolf, hello to all of you. Iraq's fallen former electricity minister is on the lam from a Baghdad prison. And Iraqi officials say Aimel Samurai broke out of the facility with the help of western gunmen yesterday. He was the first member of the former interim government of Ayad Allawi to be convicted on corruption charges for wasting public funds. His case was on appeal. Federal officials in Florida plan to start soon interviewing 25 Cuban migrants who came ashore early this morning. They landed at Long Boat Key, much further north than most migrant landings. A Border Patrol spokesman said their position may be an indication of the effectiveness of the agency's heavier enforcement to the south.
And a 37-year-old grocery clerk was arrested today as a suspect in the murders of five prostitutes, one of the worst serial killing sprees in recent British history. The murders this month struck fear into a quiet corner of eastern England around Ipswich. There are no charges yet in the case and the suspect says he's innocent. That's a look at world headlines now. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thanks very much Carol for that. Will the new Pentagon chief soon find himself ordering yet more American troops to Iraq? Joining us now our world affairs analyst, the former Defense Secretary William Cohen, he's Chairman and CEO of The Cohen Group here in Washington and a key member of our CNN Security Council. Your friend, Colin Powell, said this yesterday. I want you to hear his point on this proposal to have a surge, 20, 30,000 additional troops in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I would have to hear a persuasive argument as to what more troops would do and would they make a significant enough difference to undertake the expense and the turmoil within the structure for additional troops.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He is not convinced the surge would do any good. What do you think?
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well I think Secretary Gates is going to have to find out from his commanders in the field, namely, what would be the mission? Is it feasible, executable, can it be carried out, at what cost? How much in terms of blood and treasure and how long? These are questions that he has to ask the commanders. As we know in the past, there have been allegations that Secretary Rumsfeld just suppressed the military recommendation for more troops, whether true or not, now we have a situation where the commanders on the ground appear to say we don't need more. So I think that secretary Gates is going to have to resolve that and do it rather quickly. I just returned from that region and there is great concern that the countries in the region are unsure whether we are going to be there. They are very concerned about Iran building a nuclear capability. And as a result, the Saudis and other countries in the region have announced they're going forward with their own nuclear energy programs which I think are just a cover for nuclear weapons programs.
BLITZER: So when Gates and the president, when they suggest the ramifications of failure would be enormous for the United States, in that region and beyond, based on what you're hearing from your recent visit to that region, they have a point?
COHEN: They do have a point. The other countries in the region are now looking and assessing what their options are. The notion that the Saudis would send the signal that they would be supporting the Sunnis in the event the United States leaves prematurely or soon and therefore continue that insurgency really has sent a signal to the Bush administration, that it is unhappy with the way things have unfolded. They also feel that they haven't been listened to. Most of the countries in the region felt their advice has either been ignored or rejected. So I think that if -- if Secretary Gates has the time and in addition to talking to the troops in the field and the commanders, he should get to the other countries in the region to see how he can build the -- more support for their involvement in a much greater way.
BLITZER: Do the friends of the United States of the region, the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, really believe reaching out and speaking to Iran and Syria would make a difference?
COHEN: There are -- they have two positions on this frankly. Publicly, they have indicated that it's important to be talking to the Iranians and the Syrians. Privately, they are very worried about what Iran is doing. I think, as I've said before, I think we can't just talk to Iran about what they're doing in Iraq, which is significant. But most importantly, what they are doing with their nuclear weapons program. For them to continue on without abatement on this program, without us being able to do anything to stop it at this point, is sending a signal to those countries in the region that perhaps what they have to do is now go to a nuclear weapons program. That is bad news for the region, its bad news for the world.
BLITZER: Talk about proliferation fears that could happen. Thanks very much Secretary Cohen for coming in. COHEN: Pleasure to be here.
BLITZER: And coming up, debate over gay clergy splitting the Episcopal Church, with two historic parishes now taking some drastic action. We're going to show you what they've decided to do. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In the culture wars, a house divided, the Episcopal Church losing two historic parishes over the issue of gay clergy and same-sex unions. Let's turn to CNN's Brian Todd, he's joining us from Falls Church in Virginia. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, since George Washington walked through these doors to pray almost 250 years ago, this particular church has become one of the most influential Episcopal congregations in the country. And it has just taken a very bold stand that may fundamentally change this faith.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): A few words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new day has begun.
TODD: Then hymns and hugs. With those simple gestures, two churches that date back to the 1700s, one of them a place where George Washington prayed, break away from the Episcopal Church of the U.S. Falls Church, and Puro(ph) Church, which served two of the most elite communities in the Washington D.C. area are taking along at least six other parishes in the largest state Episcopal diocese in the country. Parishioners and church officials talk about long standing differences over theology. But the rector of Falls Church boils it down to what he calls the tipping point three years ago.
REV. JOHN YATES, FALLS CHURCH: The election of a person in our church to the highest office who is a person who is living in a sexual sort of relationship that has always been condemned by our church really got the attention of many, many more people.
TODD: Reverend John Yates is talking about Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay man elected bishop of a state diocese. Reverend Yates says it's not just about lifestyle. But observers say the Episcopal Church has been struggling with these issues.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT: There have been a lot of talk in the last few years over some issues of women priests, over issues of gay bishops that people were disgruntled within the Episcopal Church. And the Episcopal Church is a particular kind of church because they try to straddle the fine line between keeping conservatives and liberals happy.
TODD: In a statement Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, head of the entire U.S. Episcopal Church, said quote, "We are saddened when individuals decide they must leave the Episcopal Church. But she also said the quick fix embraced in drawing lines or in departing is not going to be an ultimate solution for our discomfort."
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: These two conservative congregations are now going to link up with another offshoot of the Anglican Church, one in Nigeria that favors putting homosexuals in jail. But the pastor here says he's very clear he does not favor that kind of action against people for their lifestyle. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right Brian thanks. Brian is in Falls Church, Virginia. Coming up next, as astronauts go on a stroll in space, how is NASA trying to bring the thrill of new discoveries closer to you back on earth? Our welcome to the future report, straight ahead.
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BLITZER: Right now astronauts are hard at work repairing the international space station. But in the future NASA wants to bring you even closer to the excitement to feel what it is like to explore space. And a new partnership with Google could be the next step. Abbi Tatton has today's edition of our "Welcome to the Future" report. Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, Google and NASA, these two already have some pretty impressive online tools. At Google Earth you're allowed -- you can pinpoint anywhere on the globe and fly in and take a look at the NASA website, you can trace the international space station. You can even watch the space walks in real time as they happen. Well, now the two are teaming up. Under a new space act agreement that was signed today, we'll soon be using Google programs to zoom into NASA's high resolution 3-d images of the moon, mars, and beyond. Google and NASA say these are going to be available on their websites in about six to eight months. So in a few space walks' time, we'll be able to participate virtually alongside. Wolf?
BLITZER: Abbi, thanks very much. Let's go to "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT." Kitty Pilgrim sitting in -- Kitty?
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