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The Situation Room
White House Insists There Is No Feud Between President Bush And Joint Chiefs of Staff Over Iraq; On Oregon's Mt. Hood Authorities Say Big Search Is Over For Two Missing Climbers; Dick Cheney To Testify In CIA Leak Case Trial; John Murtha Interview; Turf War Underway Between Giuliani and McCain
Aired December 19, 2006 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Susan, thanks very much. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now, a clash of the titans over Iraq. Are President Bush and his top military commanders at odds over boosting troop levels?
This hour, new struggles at home for a solution in Iraq and I'll speak with Democratic Congressman and war critic, John Murtha about all of this.
Another kind of power struggle between two Republican Goliaths. John McCain and Rudy Giuliani now engaged in a presidential campaign turf war. There are new developments and brand new poll numbers, as well, in the race to 2008.
Plus, fading hopes and bad weather on the horizon in the search for those two missing mountain climbers. We're live in Oregon, where the rescue operation has taken a new turn.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The White House insists today that there is no feud between President Bush and the Joint Chiefs of Staff over Iraq. But political battle lines clearly have been drawn over a proposal to increase troop levels short-term, a proposal the administration is said to be seriously considering right now.
Let's turn to our Brian Todd. He's got all the latest developments over this conflict involving what to do next in Iraq -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, several times in recent months, President Bush has said he trusts his commanders to give him the best advice on how to win in Iraq, but, today, a serious question is raised. Is the president listening to his generals?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD (voice-over): A roadside bomb injures store-goers. Gunmen, some wearing security force uniforms, hold up government workers transferring cash.
The take? Nearly a million dollars. Baghdad has become a city so dangerous it's ignited multiple rounds of political infighting 6,000 miles away in Washington.
The latest, President Bush is considering a short-term surge in U.S. troop levels to secure the Iraqi capitol, as many as 30,000. Some reports say there is a strong push for this inside the White House.
Pentagon sources tell CNN top military leaders are against the idea, unless there's a defined mission. The generals have been clear about this in recent weeks.
GENERAL JOHN ABIZAID, CENTCOM COMMANDER: I do not believe that more American troops right now is the solution to the problem.
TODD: White House officials, pressed on whether they're at loggerheads with their commanders.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The notion that somehow there is some sort of feud between the president and the joint chiefs would be wrong.
TODD: But this goes beyond Pennsylvania Avenue and the Pentagon. Listen to the incoming chairman of the House Armed Services Committee on the idea of a surge in troops.
REP. IKE SKELTON (D), MISSOURI: I don't think it will change a thing. It could actually exacerbate the situation even further.
TODD: Congressman Ike Skelton worried the Army and Marines are already stretched too thin. Others say more U.S. troops will inspire more insurgent attacks.
But while in Baghdad recently, the Republican presidential frontrunner painted a bleak picture of security.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I'd like to say that I believe conditions have improved certainly in Baghdad. They have not. I believe there is still a compelling reason to have an increase in troops here in Baghdad.
TODD: A former advisor to Republican and Democratic presidents believes this increasingly public debate is corrosive.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR: The very length of this review has invited a lot of second-guessing about whether the administration knows what it's doing and now this cascade of leaks has made it even more apparent that there is a great deal of uncertainty, if not confusion and chaos within the administration on an issue so central to his presidency, so central to the country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: But David Gergen says it is understandable the president is agonizing over this. He says it will be the most important decision Mr. Bush has made on Iraq since he ordered the invasion -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, thank you for that. Brian Todd reporting.
CNN, meanwhile, has learned that the U.S. military Central Command has asked the Pentagon for permission to send another aircraft carrier battle group to the Persian Gulf region.
The "USS Eisenhower" already is there as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. We're told the deployment of a second battle group would be aimed at sending a warning signal to Iran, as well as to assist in any action in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Just ahead, we'll be speaking about that and a lot more with Democratic Congressman John Murtha. We'll talk about the prospect of sending yet more U.S. troops to Iraq. Will that help end the conflict or will it prolong it?
John Murtha standing by, he'll join us in THE SITUATION ROOM. A lot more on Iraq coming up.
But we want to turn now to another important story we've been following. We want to take you to Oregon's Mt. Hood, where authorities now say the big search is over for two missing climbers. But rescuers still are hoping to find little clues about what happened to the men and whether they're dead or, against all odds, still alive.
Let's turn to CNN's Rob Marciano. He's joining us from Hood River in Oregon.
It sounds increasingly gloomy, Rob, but give our viewers the latest, what they're saying out there.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the search continues, Wolf, for Brian Hall and Nikko Cooke, but it has downsized. The Air National Guard has been sent to their home bases to regroup and to be on standby in case they are needed.
Avalanche teams are being assembled. There is one on standby right now at the cloud cap base at about 6,000 feet and there are two fixed-wing airplanes taking off from this airfield in Hood River, doing an aerial search up and down the Elliott Glacier.
Inside those airplanes are family members, to not only help out in the search, but to get a visual idea of where their loved ones may be right now.
Sheriff Wampler was on the ground earlier this morning. Here's what he had to say about where they might be and the plan of attack today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSEPH WAMPLER, HOOD RIVER, OREGON SHERIFF: We're still looking for those little clues so that we can move ground teams, so we can make plans to move ground teams into certain areas, if we need to, and then, you know, also maintain the opportunity for Brian and Nikko to stick their head up out of that hole up there someplace and self- rescue themselves and we want to be there to see that, if that happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARCIANO: That's what they're doing right now. We were monitoring some of the two-way radios out of that aircraft and still no significant clues and no sign of those missing climbers.
The question earlier today posed to the sheriff is at what point does the search become fruitless, at what point do you say that's enough. And he said, "Well, when the risks outweigh the results, then we'll call it off."
But until that happens, they're going on. And they've had that conversation with the family members. Angela Hall spoke to the media earlier today. She's the sister of Brian, and here's what she had to say
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA HALL, SISTER OF MISSING CLIMBER: Our faith in the strength of the minds, bodies, and spirits of Nikko and Brian remain steadfast. We continue to be hopeful as we pray for their safe return, and we ask the thousands of friends, family members and strangers around the world who have been touched by this story to continue to pray for the family of Kelly James, for their continued strength, and to find support in one another and in the now extended family that they have in the immediate families of Nikko and Brian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARCIANO: And the body of Kelly James was air-lifted off the mountain yesterday. With it, some clues. We found out he did have an arm injury, actually, a dislocated shoulder.
Also with him was a camera and some of those pictures not being released to the media, but described to us as showing the route which was up that Elliott Glacier, up the dangerous gullies to the summit.
What happens after that, we just don't know. What those pictures also reveal is the kind of equipment they were carrying, which was enough for a quick climb, which is what they had planned for, but rescuers are concerned they maybe didn't have enough equipment to last a long time at that high elevation in these conditions.
The past three days, Wolf, have been ideal for search and rescue. Tomorrow won't be nearly as ideal. Tomorrow will be the first of one of two storms that will roll in, bringing with it some wintry precipitation and you bet some winds at the higher elevations.
So today, kind of the last stab at it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: It might be the last day for a while. How bad is this forecast?
In other words, how many days would it look like that the bad weather would prevent the rescue operation from resuming?
MARCIANO: Unlikely for two days, Wolf. Beginning tomorrow, the visibility and the wind conditions up in the mountain probably won't let fixed aircraft or helicopters fly tomorrow.
And then we'll get another push of weather on Thursday, a break on Friday, and then another push on Saturday.
So they won't be done for the week, but I don't suspect they'll be up in the air tomorrow.
BLITZER: Rob Marciano on the scene for us in Hood River, Oregon. We'll stay in touch with you, Rob. Thanks very much.
And we'll continue to keep a close watch on this story, bring you any new word from Mt. Hood and the search for these two missing climbers.
There's a new development to report in the politically charged CIA leak case. There's official notice today that the vice president, Dick Cheney, will, in fact, be called to testify in the perjury trial of his former chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby.
That trial due to begin next month.
Let's bring in our chief national correspondent, John King. You've been looking into this story. Give our viewers a sense of what it really means.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not completely unexpected, because the prospect of the vice president testifying has come up in court hearings over the past several months, dating back into early last year.
But consider the drama. The trial is scheduled to begin on January 16. Scooter Libby is the vice president's former chief of staff and his defense team today, after the prosecution said it did not plan to call the vice president, stood up in open court, federal court, and said it did plan to call Dick Cheney as a defense witness.
Now, again, this has come up from time to time, because Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney were so close and the prosecutor wants to know what Scooter Libby knew about Valerie Plame. She, of course, is the former confidential CIA operative at the center of all this.
What did the vice president know about all of this? The White House has consistently declined comment. But after the vice president's name came up in court about six months ago, I asked him about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John, I'm not going to comment on the case. I may be called as a witness. Scooter Libby, obviously, is one of the finest men I've ever known.
He's entitled to the presumption of innocence and I have not made any comments on the case up until now and I won't.
KING: Let me ask you one more question about that then. You say you may be called as a witness. The president urged everyone very early on to cooperate in this investigation.
Does that mean if you are called as a witness, that the administration would, under no circumstances, cite any privileges either to shield you from testifying about certain issues or protect certain documents or anything like that?
CHENEY: Well, you're getting into a hypothetical now and I'm not able to answer that. We have cooperated fully with the investigation from day one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And after official word came to the vice president's office today that he would be called as a witness, this statement to CNN from Leeann McBride, the vice president's spokeswoman.
She said, quote, "We have cooperated fully in this matter and will continue to do so. In fairness to the parties involved and as we have stated previously, we are not going to comment further on a legal proceeding."
But, again, Wolf, the trial begins on January 16. There is nothing we can find in the history books of a sitting vice president as a witness in a criminal trial. So high stakes legal and political drama.
BLITZER: It's interesting that they're going to cooperate in that sense. Presumably, they could have, as you suggested in the question to the vice president, raised some sort of constitutional issue here. They're not apparently going to do that.
We have to assume that Scooter Libby and his attorneys believe the testimony of the vice president will help him in this case. But I'm having a hard time understanding how that could happen.
KING: However it breaks, we are likely now to get, assuming they go ahead with these plans, a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at just how the White House handled it.
Ambassador Joe Wilson wrote that column back in 2003 in the "New York Times" essentially saying the president lied, the president hyped the case for war in Iraq.
Then there was an aggressive campaign at the White House to rebut him and to criticize him. And, of course, the question in the criminal investigation was did they out his wife, a covert CIA operative, as revenge of some sort.
What did the vice president know? What was Scooter Libby's involvement? That will be the back-and-forth.
Scooter Libby's defense is if he lied to investigators or if he doesn't remember exactly what he said or exactly what he knew, it's not because he's trying to avoid things or cheat investigators.
They said he simply was overwhelmed. He was so busy, so important to the national security team, he was overwhelmed. That will be the question put to the vice president. That will be what the defense wants from the vice president.
But it gives the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, a chance to further his investigation and to go to the vice president of the United States himself and say, "Who was in the meetings? What was said? Did anyone at a high level say, 'Let's get revenge, let's out her?'"
So it'll be fascinating.
BLITZER: And January 16, you say that's when the trial is scheduled to start.
KING: Scheduled to begin. There could be a couple more delays. The lawyers are still trying to figure things out. He will be a defense witness, so you have to wait a little bit.
But the judge wants to move this along pretty quickly. So sometime early in the new year.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, John King reporting for us.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty for "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, you remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I believe that you've -- you know, you empower your generals to make the recommendations on what we do to win.
You can't fight a war from Washington. In other words, you can't make the tactical decisions necessary to win. It just won't work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: Guess what? The decider may not be listening to what his generals have to say after all. "The Washington Post" reports the Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously disagree with the idea of sending more troops to Iraq, unanimous.
They think the White House still doesn't have a defined mission there and that the Bush administration is considering the additional troops because they simply don't have many other options.
There's also a concern that such an increase in troops could lead to more Al Qaeda attacks and would simply give the Sunni insurgents more targets.
Apparently, none of that matters, though. President Bush continues to consider a troop increase and is expected to announce his decision in January.
Meanwhile, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow trying to shoot down that "Post" report, denying any accounts of a rift between the White House and the Joint Chiefs. Snow says people are trying to create a fight where one doesn't exist.
Well, of course, you wouldn't expect Snow to come out and admit that President Bush is ignoring the recommendations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, now, would you? Or would you?
Here's the question. Who should President Bush listen to when it comes to the war in Iraq?
E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Jack, for that. Jack Cafferty with "The Cafferty File."
Coming up, we'll have much more on the political battle over Iraq. Are Democrats actually themselves divided over a timetable for troop withdrawal or troop increase in Iraq?
I'll ask Congressman John Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat. He'll be joining us.
Plus, in the next race for the White House, will you vote for a Democrat or for a Republican? We have a brand new poll and it may surprise you.
And, later, in the battle for the Republican nomination, is John McCain trying to one-up Rudy Giuliani?
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The pressure is on President Bush greater than ever to start bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq. But Mr. Bush's idea of fixing the Iraq problem may turn out to result in a short-term surge in troop levels.
Joining us now, one of the early and most influential voices in the push toward a troop pullout, Democratic Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania is joining us on the phone.
Congressman, thanks very much for coming in. What do you make of this idea of having a short-term surge, as they're calling it, 20- 30,000 U.S. troops deployed to the Baghdad area to try to bring some sort of stability there?
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, Wolf, let's look at the results of what happened. They put 10,000 more troops into the area. They've increased significantly troops in the Baghdad area and it's gotten worse.
The incidents, attacks, I call them, have increased, have doubled. They're up 973 a week now. More Iraqis being killed. More security people being killed. More Americans being killed.
That's with more troops. That's 130,000 troops on the ground and it hasn't gotten better.
And in the second place, we don't have the troops to send in there for a sustained period of time. So there's no question, in my mind, the chief may not say this publicly, but there's no question, they're very concerned.
They do not have an achievable mission and that's the thing the troops tell me, that's the thing the generals tell me.
BLITZER: Here's what Tony Snow, the White House press secretary, said today, responding to this report in "The Washington Post" that there is a split between the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the White House on this notion of a surge for six months or a year of 20,000, 30,000 additional troops in Iraq. Listen to what Tony Snow said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: The idea is there a decision and a squabble would be wrong. I've also cautioned people that, tonally, it is incorrect to say that the president is in any sort of contralto with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They work together.
The president has a great deal of respect for the chain of command.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you think about that?
MURTHA: Well, I think the chiefs are very concerned and rightly so. The troops have been overextended. We sent the troops in there with inadequate equipment, in the first place, and they keep going back three, four, five, some of them five times.
So there's no question we would have a difficult time meeting that goal. So they have to have objections. None of them told me that personally, but there is no question, in my mind, they would object to more troops.
And the second thing and the most important thing, they don't have an achievable mission, a defined mission which they can point to.
What's the point in sending another 40,000 troops? And the situation has been that they have more troops in Baghdad and things have gotten worse.
And then we'd be fighting Shias. In other words, you're going to be caught in a civil war fighting Shias. We're already fighting the Sunnis. Now we're going to be fighting the Shias.
It just makes it worse. Only the Iraqis can handle this thing, though, Wolf. We cannot handle it. We have defined ourselves, we're occupying the country, we've made enemies with the way we operate and the troops are doing a magnificent job, but the point is they have no mission and that's a political decision made by the president and that's why the chiefs have to object to it.
BLITZER: The new defense secretary, Robert Gates, said yesterday that failure in Iraq, in his words, "would be a calamity."
Here's the question to you. Has the U.S. already lost in Iraq?
MURTHA: Militarily, we've lost. There's no question about it. We cannot win this militarily.
The way we have to operate when we go into an area, we went into Fallujah, we put 300,000 people outside their homes. The way we operate in all these places, kicking down the doors and so forth.
The military, in order to protect lives of Americans, and I agree with that, but the problem is it makes enemies. Abu Ghraib is another example when you have untrained people handling this kind of stuff. You don't have enough people.
So, militarily, we're already to the point where the troops are doing everything they're asked to do. I'm inspired by the troops, but that's not the point.
They don't have a defined mission and it's not getting better. So we have to find a way to redeploy these troops. There'll be some instability, but they have to settle it themselves.
One year ago, I spoke out and the incidents were 400 a week and now they are 973, 93 a day, attacks a day.
BLITZER: What about this fear that the White House and other supporters of the president say that if the U.S. were to pull out, a defeated U.S. military, a defeated U.S. would send a horrible signal to the rest of the region and there could potentially be an Al Qaeda- like mini enclave or mini state within Iraq itself that would represent a long-term threat to the U.S.?
MURTHA: Well, the administration said it was an Al Qaeda connection. The administration said there were weapons of mass destruction. The administration said we're going in there to topple Saddam Hussein. The administration said we're going in to spread democracy.
Just because they say it doesn't mean it's so. I'm convinced, and Iraqis say this themselves, there will be more stability in the long run and no matter what we try to do, this is only short-term fixes.
Only the Iraqis can do this. There is in way the United States can solve this problem. We have gotten so far out and we missed our opportunity, if we ever had an opportunity early on, to stabilize Iraq.
Since we didn't do it then, it cannot be done now. I am convinced the best thing for the United States, the best American policy, what's in the best interest of America, and that's to get our troops redeployed out of there.
I don't mean partially. I mean out of there in a -- even in their new report, they say that they believe that stability can come about when you have a negotiated timeline.
This is a new report that they just sent to us from the state and defense department about stability in Iraq.
BLITZER: We've got to leave it right there. Congressman John Murtha, thanks for spending a few moments with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
MURTHA: Good talking to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, and a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you, as well.
MURTHA: Thank you very much.
BLITZER: And coming up, is the news media making too much of the first lady's medical procedure? We're going to tell you how the White House feels about that.
Plus, will you vote for a Democrat or a Republican in the next presidential election? We've got some brand new CNN poll numbers that are just coming out this hour.
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, the White House denying there's a feud between President Bush and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but Pentagon sources tell CNN top military leaders are against a proposal to send more troops to Iraq in the short term, unless there is a defined mission.
According to some reports, the idea is gaining momentum inside the White House.
When President Bush finally announces his new course in Iraq, will it actually be new? Will it actually be improved? And could a boost in force levels actually backfire?
The war in Iraq and the political war at home, that's coming up in our strategy session.
And do Democrats have the advantage in the early race toward the White House? Maybe yes, maybe no. We have some brand new poll numbers that show what could happen if some of the biggest names in the field go head-to-head.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
It's not even 2007 yet, but with all of the early presidential maneuvering going on, it feels as though 2008 is just around the corner.
We don't have a crystal ball into the political future, but we do have some brand new CNN poll numbers and we also have our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.
What's the latest, Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, was 2006 an omen for 2008? The Democrats sure hope so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Ask people right now whether they'd vote for the Democrat or the Republican for president, and it looks good for the Democrats, a 20-point lead, landslide.
What happens if you ask Americans to choose between two real people, Democrat Hillary Clinton and Republican John McCain? Not exactly a landslide. More like a dead heat.
Could the problem be Senator Clinton?
Let's see what happens if we substitute Al Gore for Hillary Clinton. Nothing. Still very close. Both Democrats are closely identified with the Bill Clinton administration.
Could the advantage be unique to McCain? Let's see what happens if we substitute Rudy Giuliani for John McCain. Nothing. Still neck- in-neck. Neither Giuliani nor McCain is closely identified with the Bush administration.
OK, Democrats are thinking, maybe we can get the Democratic lead back if we nominate somebody who's got a fresh, clean image, someone who captures the spirit of '06.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: To some degree, I have become a shorthand or a symbol or a stand-in, for now, of a spirit that the last election in New Hampshire represented. And it's a spirit that says, we are looking for something different.
SCHNEIDER: Let's see what happens if we substitute Barack Obama for Hillary Clinton. McCain stays the same. But Obama doesn't do quite as well as Clinton. More people are undecided. They don't know much about Obama. You can't say Obama is more electable than Clinton because he does better in the polls. He doesn't. What you can say is that people's opinions about the freshman Illinois senator are not as strong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The poll has a message for Republicans, too. The more independent their candidate appears to be from the Bush administration, the better that candidate is likely to do -- Wolf.
BLITZER: These candidates increasingly, and even Barack Obama, getting a lot of name recognition, certainly Rudy Giuliani, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and now Barack Obama.
So, I assume most Americans know who these people are when these questions are asked.
SCHNEIDER: They do. Most Americans know those candidates, but there are a lot of others.
For instance, we looked at the support for Mitt Romney, the governor of Massachusetts. And, there, a lot of people said, well, they didn't want to vote for him because they don't know anything about him. The unknown candidates still have to acquire name recognition.
BLITZER: All right, Bill, thank you very much -- Bill Schneider reporting.
Let's go to Carol Costello in New York for a closer look at some other important stories making news.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf.
Hello to all of you.
White House spokesman Tony Snow says reporters are making a mountain out of a molehill. He defended first lady's Laura Bush decision not to disclose that she had a nickel-sized skin cancer removed from her right shin in early November. It came up when someone noticed a bandage on her right leg. Snow says, Mrs. Bush is not an elected official and has the right to privacy.
We will have much more on this story in our next hour.
Hear the sound of gunfire. Schoolchildren in Gaza City scurry for cover as those gunshots ring out. But a new deal between warring Palestinian factions could bring it to an end. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas announced a short time ago that his Fatah faction and Hamas agreed again today to a new cease-fire.
The pact is another attempt to end the swelling violence within the Palestinian territories. A previous truce broke down within 24 hours. It's unclear if this one will hold. A Palestinian spokesman says preparations are in the works for President Mahmoud Abbas and the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, to meet one on one, as well. He says, once those preparations are in place, the meeting will take place immediately. He says, no firm date has been set.
That's a look at the headlines right now -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, see you in a few minutes, Carol. Thanks for that.
Coming up: Call it a turf battle. Is John McCain trying to one- up Rudy Giuliani in the fight for the Republican presidential nomination? We have got our eye on the next race for the White House.
Also: Why are two Democratic presidential hopefuls in Syria? We will find out in today's "Political Radar".
Stick around. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's a new turf war underway between two top -- two of the top contenders for the Republican presidential nomination. That would be Senator John McCain and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
We will turn to CNN's Mary Snow. She is watching what some are calling the clash of the GOP Goliaths -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...clash comes over Republican dollars.
Tonight, Giuliani is hosting a $2,100-per-person fund-raiser. But he's getting competition in his home city from Senator McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): In a town never known for subtly, Arizona Senator John McCain's message to Rudy Giuliani may be as glaring as the city's bright lights. McCain's message: I'm on your turf.
On the same day as Giuliani's first fund-raiser for his presidential exploratory committee, McCain's camp released a list of his Republican donors in the New York area.
DAVID WINSTON, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: McCain's strategy here is, whenever one of his major opponents has a major event, he tries to come in with another news story.
SNOW: McCain's camp says it has lined up names for his finance team that include former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and John Thain, the head of the New York Stock Exchange.
When asked about the timing of the announcement, a McCain adviser says: "We are going to run an aggressive campaign. We are not going to cede any territory." A spokeswoman for Giuliani declined comment. But, recently, the former New York City mayor admitted that questions about money are on the list when considering challenging other Republicans for the '08 nomination.
RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: Can you win? Can you do a better job than they can do? Can you raise as much money or a competitive amount of money?
SNOW: Giuliani and McCain are considered the front-runners, but some recent national polls show Giuliani in the lead, despite all the talk that his support of abortion and gay rights won't fare well with conservatives.
Outgoing Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney currently ranks third for the GOP nomination.
Republican strategist David Winston says, having two GOP front- runners this early on could make potential candidates think twice.
WINSTON: I think what it's going to do is, it's going to make people take a more realistic view of what can be achieved and not achieved. And having two people that far out in front is a bit sobering, I think, to a lot of candidates -- potential candidates.
SNOW: One potential candidate is former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who says he will wait until Labor Day before deciding whether he will seek the GOP nomination.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: One question being asked in New York: Who will win backing from the city's mayor, Mike Bloomberg, a Republican, who happens to be a billionaire? Bloomberg says he is staying neutral. Giuliani helped him get elected as mayor. McCain is an old friend and supporter. And Bloomberg himself is mentioned as a possible candidate -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We will see what he does, Mayor Bloomberg.
Appreciate it, Mary. Thank you very much.
Let's bring in our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton. She has some new details on a Rudy Giuliani presidential bid.
What are you picking up, Abbi?
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, just gone live today, this is Join Rudy 2008, a Web site to accompany Rudy Giuliani's exploratory committee, a place where people can register their information, pass along information about the site and the exploratory committee to friends, and also a place with a record of Rudy Giuliani's record as mayor of New York City.
This is part of a new crop over the last month or so of Web sites accompanying exploratory committees, Explore McCain from Senator John McCain, also from Senator Sam Brownback, a place to drum up support, and, importantly, a link to donate money at this stage -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Those Web sites really, really important nowadays. Appreciate it very much, Abbi, for that.
Abbi Tatton, Mary Snow, and, as you saw earlier, Bill Schneider and John King, they are all part of the best political team on television.
And let's get some more presidential prospects on our "Political Radar."
The outgoing Republican governor of New York also laying some campaign groundwork in the Empire State. George Pataki met with about 100 prominent Hispanic leaders in his hometown of Peekskill, New York, last night. It was held at the office that will likely held as his headquarters, if -- he decides to run for the White House. Pataki has said he will make a decision next year.
Democratic Senators John Kerry and Chris Dodd landed in Syria today for talks on how that country might help ease the crisis in Iraq. Their visit comes after the Bush White House said it was inappropriate and not helpful for senators to reach out to Syria, against the administration's wishes.
And, if it walks like a duck -- Democratic presidential contender Tom Vilsack went for the laughs on "The Daily Show" last night, presenting the host, Jon Stewart, with a stuffed duck.
The outgoing Iowa governor played off the fact that his last name sounds like AFLAC, the insurance company that uses a duck as its mascot. Vilsack joked that he wouldn't duck the issues in his presidential campaign.
Remember, for all the latest political news at any time, check out our Political Ticker. Simply go to CNN.com/ticker.
Coming up in our "Strategy Session," we will have more on the presidential horse race. Does Senator John McCain have the right stuff to beat the field? And what about Barack Obama? How does he do against the front-runner? We get brand-new poll numbers. I will ask Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan about that and more.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about presidential politics and potential head-to-head matchups for 2008.
Joining us now in today's "Strategy Session," Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, her Republican counterpart, Bay Buchanan, the president of American Cause.
Let's go through some of these poll numbers. We saw Bill Schneider report them earlier. In a head-to-head clash between Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator John McCain -- look at this -- 47 percent for Clinton, 47 percent for McCain.
Are you surprised that it would be that evenly matched, at least right now?
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I'm not, because she enjoys broad name recognition. Of course, she was one of the most popular first ladies when she was in office. And she's a popular United States senator.
It proves that she is viable, that she is electable, that she can compete head to head with John McCain in the general election.
BLITZER: What do you think?
BAY BUCHANAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think they're meaningless, these polls.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: It's good. I mean, it's good for Hillary. It's good for McCain, because they can use...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: They're not meaningless, in the sense that it helps these...
BUCHANAN: Correct.
BLITZER: ... men and women raise a lot of money...
BUCHANAN: That is correct.
BLITZER: ... get staff, and prepare themselves for a long political battle.
BUCHANAN: That is -- they are meaningless in the idea that this is significant for next year. But it is -- it could create some type of a movement, especially for Hillary, Wolf.
Hillary has a problem amongst her own, in the Democratic Party, that they feel that she may not be as strong as they would like in a general election. If she has these kind of numbers, can show some strength, they may fall back and say, maybe she is the best candidate.
BLITZER: Well, and here's another number, a couple numbers, that may help her a little bit more. In a head-to-head hypothetical matchup between Senator Clinton and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Clinton comes up ahead, at 48 percent, Giuliani, 46 percent, a three-point, plus or minus, sampling error.
Numbers like that could help her big time in the Democratic Party. BRAZILE: Of course. Look, Hillary Clinton will be able to compete effectively in the Northeast, and as well as the Midwest and the West.
I do believe that, in a head-to-head contest with Rudy Giuliani, she will not only beat that 48 number, but perhaps get beyond 51 percent.
BUCHANAN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: Listen, if it becomes a Clinton-Giuliani race, we're -- conservatives will be home.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: So, we will just see who else is left out there to choose between those two.
BLITZER: You think there would be a third-party conservative candidate?
BUCHANAN: I don't think a third party is viable, unless they have -- somebody you know has $100 million that would like to drop it on a campaign.
I don't think that's viable. I just think you will have an enormous number of people who would stay home.
But -- but let me make this point. Giuliani is not going to win the Republican primary.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: That is not going to happen.
BLITZER: He comes out on top all the...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: ... polls, right, ahead of McCain, among registered Republicans.
BUCHANAN: You do a national -- see, that is why these polls are so meaningless. It's a national poll. But, in order to win a primary, you have to first go to Iowa. And then you go head up there to New Hampshire, maybe even Alaska early on. These are not, you know -- they're not national. And, so...
BRAZILE: But, Bay...
BUCHANAN: ... in Iowa, 75 percent of the goers to the caucuses are pro-life, pro-family. Giuliani would be lucky to get one of that 75 percent.
BRAZILE: I am going to take up for Giuliani, who I don't know.
But the reason why he gets such high numbers is that he is perceived as a leader. He is perceived as someone, in 9/11, who took a bold and decisive stand -- stance with the president. And he is also seen as someone who is tough on Iraq and national security issues. That is why he is doing...
BLITZER: All right.
BRAZILE: ... so well in the polls.
BLITZER: Here are some other numbers. We will put up these poll numbers back to back: hypothetical matchups involving Barack Obama.
In a race against McCain, McCain gets 47 percent, Barack Obama 43 percent. In a hypothetical matchup against Giuliani, Giuliani gets 49 percent, Obama 42 percent.
I suspect, Donna -- correct me if I'm wrong -- it's, in part, because a lot of Americans, despite all the hype of the last few months, they still don't know who Barack Obama is.
BRAZILE: I agree. But, look, 42 percent against Giuliani, 43 percent against John McCain, that's impressive for a one-term...
BUCHANAN: Absolutely is.
BRAZILE: ... freshman senator, with two years of national experience under his belt. He can build on that record.
BUCHANAN: There's no question these are strong numbers for Obama. I agree entirely with Donna.
And I will tell you what is -- was not considered in -- in these polls that you can't really get it in there, is, that is that he's a new face, a fresh face. People don't know him. There is real energy, Wolf, and excitement that comes when a new person, somebody we don't know, comes onto the scene. People look and take a look and see if there is something he offers. And anything can happen. Anything can come out of that moment. And that is...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Very quickly, when the president delivers his big speech that we're all told he will eventually do, probably in early January, with a new strategy in Iraq, what does he have to say? What does he have to do to turn the country around? Because the polls show he is in deep trouble on his Iraq strategy.
BUCHANAN: He's in real trouble. And all of those people, everyone who is looking at what you can do, from the Joint Chiefs, to congressmen and senators, cannot come up with a plan that really is going to be something that we all can get behind and say, this will work.
I think what he is going to have to do is just let the American people know that we do have a strategy. Here it is. Define it. Tell us what we're going to do, and give us some confidence that there is a possibility that things can turn around over there.
BLITZER: Very quickly.
BRAZILE: The president must tell us that he has a political solution at hand. Maliki has agreed.
The Iraqi troops are ready to step forward. And our troops will begin to come home.
BLITZER: Let's see what he says.
BRAZILE: We will see.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, guys, for coming in.
Up next: Donald Trump gives Miss USA a second chance. She is rehab-bound, and promises to clean up her alleged party-girl ways.
And is the White House giving us a run for our money? The West Wing has refurbished the real, yes, the real Situation Room. We are going to have a report here in our SITUATION ROOM.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go back to Carol in New York for a closer look at some other important stories making news -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Hi, Wolf.
Hello to all of you.
It was a tearful event, but billionaire real estate mogul Donald Trump held strong, sternly saying he is giving Miss USA one more chance. Trump, who co-owns the beauty pageant franchise, says that Tara Conner has agreed to go into rehab and undergo drug testing. He says he will not strip her of her title. He was expected to do so after reports of misbehavior, including underage drinking. But Trump says, one more mistake, and he will use his signature line on her: "You're fired."
Could it be a sign of things to come in the U.S. economy? The pace of homebuilding picked up in November, as new home starts climbed 6.7 percent. But the Commerce Department says building permits fell 3 percent. That's their lowest level in almost nine years. Permits for future construction are considered an indicator of builder confidence.
And it has been a long time in coming, but construction has begun on New York's Freedom Tower. The first steel beams were installed in Lower Manhattan at the 9/11 ground zero site. A 53-ton beam was covered with signatures, photos and personal notes from families and friends of the victims of the terrorist attacks more than five years ago. That's a look at the headlines right now -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Carol, for that.
Jack Cafferty has got "The Cafferty File." He is in New York as well -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: Front-page story in "The Washington Post," Wolf, saying the Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously disagree with President Bush's idea under consideration of sending more troops to Iraq. The question is, then: Whom should President Bush listen to when it comes to the war in Iraq? Remember all those times he told us he listens to the generals? Apparently, not on this one.
Jack in Florida writes: "Mr. Bush should listen to the American people, who have spoken loud and clear in the November election. He should also listen to the Iraqis, who, like Americans, want the mayhem and bloodshed to stop. We know by now, though, he won't listen to either, and will continue down his bloody road. The Congress will soon have no alternative but impeachment in order to stop this madness."
Ron in San Francisco: "Given how screwed up Iraq-mire is, he couldn't be listening to anyone but the neo-clowns, who got us into this disaster. Perhaps he could get a better insight if he listened to someone who doesn't agree with him, like the military, for a change."
Brian in Memphis, Tennessee: "He ought to listen to the press. With all their military medals and experience, I think sometimes we should only send them. No matter who is in charge, the press always seems to know better."
John in New Jersey writes: "No one. The decider in chief listens to no one. His advisers we affectionately call the cluster of the clueless communicate only options, not decisions. From atop the summit of all-knowing, the decider in chief intellectually digests the options, and a decision is made. Abracadabra. Poof. It is done."
Mark in Campbellford, Ontario: "He should have listened to the French. If he had, the families of 3,000 of your finest men and women would be celebrating this holiday season, and not mourning at some grave site."
And Ed writes from Texas: "Me. Get out" -- Wolf.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Jack, thank you.
Jack will be back in a few minutes.
Coming up next; Are small cars safe to drive? They may save you money at the pump, but could they cost you your life? Our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton -- has some new details.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Small vehicles can save you money at the gas pump, but how good are they at saving lives? A new report says, when it comes to collisions, having a small car may put you at risk.
Let's check back with our Internet reporter, Abbi Tatton -- Abbi.
TATTON: Wolf, that smaller vehicles may not offer you as much protection as larger ones may not come as much of a surprise.
But the new tests from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety do -- do show which of these small cars of the eight tested perform best, and where the vulnerabilities are. And the crash tests that were performed were designed to mimic some of the realities in the road -- this small car being hit here by a barrier designed to be like the front of an SUV or pickup.
The small car that tested best was the Nissan Versa, notably, the biggest and heaviest of all of the eight cars tests. Those that did less well were particularly vulnerable in side and rear impacts.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, earlier on this fall, put out its top safety picks of vehicles. None of those were small cars. That's because none of these small cars tests had electronic stability control fitted. New government proposals suggest that all of these news cars made in the United States will be fitted with that by 2012 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you.
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