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The Situation Room
Interview With Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus; Trump on the Attack Against Bush; Huge Manhunt Underway for Suspects in Cop Killing. Aired 18-19:00p ET
Aired September 01, 2015 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:03]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And hands up. A video appears to show two Texas officers killing a man as he raised his arms seemingly to surrender. We're telling what you we're learning about the case that's causing so much outrage.
We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off. I'm Brianna Keilar. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KEILAR: We have breaking news tonight.
Three armed and dangerous fugitives suspected of killing a veteran police officer are on the run right now. A huge manhunt has been under way now for hours north of Chicago. Many residents barricaded in their homes. We will take you there live.
Also breaking, a new CNN interview with Donald Trump. He is responding to new attacks by Jeb Bush portraying the Republican front- runner as a phony who is still a Democrat at heart. We will hear from Trump himself in just a moment.
And the rules for the second GOP debate have just been amended. The decision by CNN could possibly open the door for Carly Fiorina to join the top-tier candidates on stage two weeks from now. Our correspondents and analysts are standing by. They're in the field, they're here in the studio to cover all the news that is breaking now, including those two major political stories.
Also joining us live, the Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus. There is so much to discuss tonight with him.
First, though, to our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, on this new Trump vs. Bush fireworks -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bri, Jeb Bush had wanted to run what he called a joyful campaign. But today he moved to show supporters and some worried donors he can also get down and dirty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BASH (voice-over): On the stump.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's all personal for him.
BASH: In social media.
QUESTION: Why are you a Republican?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have no idea.
BASH: Jeb Bush is now stepping up efforts to take down the brash billionaire who stole his front-runner status.
J. BUSH: This is not a guy who is a conservative.
BASH: Bush's strategy, exposed Trump as a phony Republican, a Democrat in disguise by using Trump's own past statements.
TRUMP: I am very pro-choice. I am pro-choice in every respect. I'm as far as it goes.
J. BUSH: While I was campaigning for Republicans in this state and all across the country, conservative, reform-minded candidates, he was supporting Hillary Clinton.
BASH: Trump off the campaign trail but always online used his favorite forum, Twitter, to fight back rapid fire, saying, "Yet another weak hit by a candidate with a failing campaign. Will Jeb Bush sink as low in the polls as the others who have gone after me?" and later posting a new Instagram video with Bush praising Hillary Clinton.
J. BUSH: We recognize the commitment of someone who has devoted her life to public service.
BASH: Trump has been trying to get under Bush's skin ever since declaring for president a day after the former Florida governor, blunting Bush's post-announcement bounce and attacking him all summer.
TRUMP: Do you notice Jeb never uses his last name? Why? Because he's ashamed of it.
BASH: At first, Bush campaign sources dismissed Trump as a sideshow.
But it quickly became politically perilous to ignore him.
TRUMP: I keep using him, because I used to think he was like the guy that you had to beat. But he is like mired down. He is going down.
J. BUSH: There's a lot of really good talkers running for president.
BASH: Some worried Bush supporters were begging for him to fight back harder, show some fire. But it is an open question whether this tactic, slamming Trump's conservative credentials, will work. Rick Perry tried it.
RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism.
BASH: And it got him nowhere. But with Trump going after Bush on divisive issues like immigration...
J. BUSH: It's not a felony. It is kind of -- it's an act of love.
BASH: ... team Bush believes it has no choice but to try to discredit the reality TV star.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And I'm told by a Bush source that the campaign plans to keep churning out material on Trump, playing up what they call his liberal past, his policies that bring more power, not less, to Washington.
Those labels, Brianna, they are often devastating in a Republican primary. But in the unconventional world of Donald Trump, he so far has been impervious to those traditional attacks -- Bri.
KEILAR: He sure has. Dana Bash, thank you.
The Republican candidates are gearing up for the next big debate, and it's right here on CNN. Tonight, there has been a very important amendment to the rules.
CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston is here with the details -- Mark.
MARK PRESTON, CNN EXECUTIVE EDITOR: You know, Brianna, there has been a lot of talk about who would actually be in the top tier of the debate on September 16 at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. The question was, would there be the likes of a Carly Fiorina, who could be added to the stage?
[18:05:00]
CNN has looked at the rules that were created back in May. And we have decided to amend them to capture anybody whose campaign has been doing well since the previous debate back in August. So what we're doing at this point is, we have our original rules in place that will capture anybody who is in the top 10, who has polled in the top 10 from July 16 all the way through September 10.
In addition to that, though, the amendment will capture any candidate who does well in polling from August 7 through September 10. The reason we're doing this is because there are only three national polls that we recognize up to this point that are taking a snapshot of the race.
To put that in historical perspective, if you go back to 2011, there were 15 polls during the same time period. If you go back to 2007, 16 polls.
KEILAR: So this is really expected to give a better shot of the race where it is now and really where it has been all along, but certainly to capture a better state of the current race.
What about if this does -- at this point -- we don't know for sure if Carly Fiorina will end up on the stage. But at this point, that seems to be the person who may be affected by it. But what about to sort of test what you have explained, what about someone who may be on the cusp, which at this point appears to be maybe like a Rand Paul or a Chris Christie, will they still be -- someone like that who is the cusp would still be on the debate stage?
PRESTON: Well, let me answer it this way. Right now, the window for eligibility remains open through September 10. We don't know who actually is going to make the top-tier debate, who will be in the top 10.
What we have done though is that we didn't want to be exclusive. We wanted to be inclusive. So if somebody is polling in the top 10 from August 7 through September 10, but yet they're not polling in the top 10 an aggregate number of polls from July 16 through September 10, then they would be added to the debate. We are not going to be subtracting to add.
We would only be adding. Having said that, though, you could see some people slip out of that top 10. And they might not be on that main debate stage. At the same time, a lot of people are talking about Carly Fiorina and she has a ticket into the debate. Absolutely not true. She doesn't have a ticket to the debate. If the window closed today, she would. But we have to wait until September 10 to see who actually does get on that main debate stage.
KEILAR: The clock is still ticking. Thank you, Mark Preston. Really appreciate it.
Now a new CNN interview with Donald Trump. He is responding to tough new attacks by Jeb Bush.
CNN's Don Lemon spoke with Trump a short while ago.
Don joining us now live.
What did he say, Don?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: What didn't he say? Of course, this is Donald Trump. He said a lot. But that's where we started, Brianna.
Jeb Bush has been taking dead aim at Donald Trump because Donald Trump has been firing really at Jeb Bush. The two have been going at it. But Jeb Bush took dead aim at him in an ad with a series of sound bites of Donald Trump saying, he is a Democrat or he has Democratic tendencies or he lives in New York City. What is he? A Democrat or Republican? That's where we started. Here's what Donald Trump said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: One other thing I will say, because he mentions the fact
that I was at one point a Democrat. Well, in New York City, everybody was a Democrat practically. If you run for city council, if you run for political office, if you -- whoever wins the Democrat primary is automatically -- that's -- there was almost no election, because the Republicans hardly exist in New York City.
So, that's where I was. If you look at Ronald Reagan, he was a Democrat. He was actually -- on, he was a Democrat with a very liberal, or at least a pretty liberal bent. Then he became a Republican with a somewhat conservative, I wouldn't very, but he was a conservative Republican.
LEMON: But, Mr. Trump, that's the first time I have ever heard you call yourself a politician, refer to yourself as a politician. Did you ever consider...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I hate to do it. I hate to do it.
But I guess when you're running for office -- I hate the term politician as it relates to myself. I have never been. I have only been a politician for three months. But, you know, I guess that's what I am right now, unfortunately.
LEMON: But were you a Democrat at that point?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: But it's not going to be politics as usual.
LEMON: Were you a Democrat at that point when you said that?
TRUMP: Well, at one point, I was -- at one point, I was a Democrat, and for a period of time. And over the years, as Ronald Reagan changed, I also changed. I became much more conservative. I also became a Republican.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So there you go, Donald Trump coming out as a politician. I have never really heard him, Brianna, refer to himself as a politician. He says, I hate to admit it, but I am a politician.
Also saying at one point he was a Democrat, but he evolved on issues. And now he's conservative and he considers himself a Republican. One thing he said, he keeps comparing himself to Ronald Reagan. He says, as Ronald Reagan did, and Mitt Romney should have done but didn't do, but what Ronald Reagan did, in Donald Trump's estimation, is he fired up some Democrats.
And he believes that he can get nomination and win the presidency by firing up what he calls Reagan Democrats. Listen.
[18:10:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When Mitt Romney ran, there was a tremendous, millions of people that are Republicans and conservative Republicans, and evangelicals, and people that I have a great relationship with, they sat home for some reason and they did not vote. You know that. And I'm talking about millions of people.
And had they gotten up and voted for Mitt Romney, he would have won the election. And people are forgetting about that. Plus, I think me more than anybody else, I will cross -- I will go across lines. I think I will have a lot of Democrats.
You know, Reagan had Democrats for Reagan. It was a very big group of people and a very big bloc.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The Reagan Democrats. Yes.
TRUMP: I think I will have a lot of Democrats for Trump. I think I will have a lot of Democrats voting for me, far more than any Republican for the last long period of time.
I will say this. And I will say this very strongly. The Republican conservatives were not energized in the last election. Had they been energized, and had they voted, you would have seen victory for Mitt Romney.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We also talked about raising taxes. I asked him if he could win the nomination, he believes, as a Republican by wanting to raise taxes, as he's been talking about on hedge fund managers and so forth, the richest Americans.
He fought back with me on a little bit of that and said that it wasn't quite what he wanted to do. And then he explains himself. So we talk about that. And we talk about some issues today, like what happened in Illinois with the police officers and also what happened in Texas with the deputy and Black Lives Matter. We will have that later for you, Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes. That is just a bit of your interview with Donald Trump. We're looking forward to the entire thing. Don Lemon, thank you so much.
He is going to be back with more news and with the rest of his interview with Donald Trump just a few hours on "CNN TONIGHT" at 10:00 Eastern.
Thanks, Don.
And joining me now is the Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus. And, Chairman, I definitely want to ask you about that interview
with Donald Trump. But first I want to get your take on the amendment to the rules that CNN just announced here in the last hour for this Republican debate in a couple of weeks. Many in your party have argued it is essential to have a Republican woman on the stage for the next debate. It does seem that it is possible, the amendment to the rules, depending on how polls continue to play out, that Carly Fiorina could get a spot. What do you think?
REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, I think it was a good change.
And I think CNN was nimble in looking at the rule that when it was put in place, I would say, very innocently, it was put in place to set out a criteria that the candidates could all count on. I think if you look back at the history of polling, I think it was right for CNN to count on the fact that there would be far more polls than there currently are.
And so looking back now in hindsight, you look at the rule and say, well, something is wrong here, because you ought to have the top 10 people on the stage in the six weeks leading up to the actual debate of the top 10. Obviously, I think they did the right thing. And by not altering the criteria and maybe exclude people who were counting on it, by adding a podium for anyone that might be in the top 10, but not otherwise meeting the criteria, I think that the problem is solved. And I think that that was the right decision. And they did the right thing.
KEILAR: You just heard part of Don Lemon's interview there with Donald Trump. We will see the entirety of it at 10:00.
PRIEBUS: Not entirely, but I heard part of it.
KEILAR: OK. I will give you the crib notes on the end, which I think you may have heard the very end. Basically, Donald Trump, he is likening himself to Ronald Reagan. He is talking about how, in 2012, Republican voters were not energized. He says basically that he can energize them and he is really likening himself to a Ronald Reagan figure. Do you think he is a Ronald Reagan figure?
PRIEBUS: You know, I'm not -- you're asking the wrong guy to start commenting on 17 candidates.
And I can't start today with that (AUDIO GAP) a place for me to comment. But back in 2012, I think Romney increased voter turnout in every battleground state, except (AUDIO GAP) Carolina. But the fact of the matter is, I think there's a lot of reasons why things didn't go well in 2012. And analyzing them today is a little irrelevant. We learn from the past and we try to do better. And that's what we're doing at the Republican National Committee.
KEILAR: OK. We are having, I will say, a couple of problems, chairman, work your signal. We are going to try to restore that and bring you more with chairman Reince Priebus after the break.
PRIEBUS: OK.
KEILAR: But I will tell you this. We're also following other breaking news here in THE SITUATION ROOM, including that massive manhunt under way an hour outside of Chicago.
[18:15:01]
We will have new details on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: We are picking right back one the Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus, joining us now from the RNC.
So, chairman, you have said -- I want to ask you about this -- you have said that having Donald Trump in the GOP race has been a "net positive."
[18:20:06]
Explain that. Why do you think he's good for your party?
PRIEBUS: Well, I think, for one thing, it is important for to us learn how to break into a cultural barrier in this country. And when you have got 30 million people watching two of your debates, clearly, people are interested in what is going on in the Republican Party.
I think it is really important. I think that's one of the thing that we have got to do better at. We can't just be a midterm party that doesn't lose. We have got to be a presidential party that learns how to win.
But my point is, is that gets us so far. But we also have to know how to contain a process, how to manage the process. I think interest, intrigue and drama are -- can be very good things, as long as that is contained into a positive process. And so that is what we're working hard on every day at the RNC.
KEILAR: OK. So let's talk about not containing a process then, when we look at the latest Donald Trump Instagram videos.
PRIEBUS: It doesn't mean -- right, but it doesn't putting a gag on candidates. They should be allowed to jab and they should be allowed to push. That's not a problem. This is going to happen.
KEILAR: And I hear that. That's part of this whole process.
PRIEBUS: Sure.
KEILAR: But I do want to you look at this latest Donald Trump Instagram video, as we kind of see this duel play out between Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. BUSH: We recognize the commitment of someone who has devoted her life to public service. I want to say thank you to both Secretary Clinton and to President Clinton.
QUESTION: What does that make Hillary Clinton to the Bush family?
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My sister-in-law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: What do you think about that? You say this is just sort of part of the process? Is this good for the party?
PRIEBUS: Yes, I don't -- I think this is sort of typical jabs and pushes back and forth. I think it is August.
I think that it is part of the process, it's part of the distinction the candidates are trying to make between each other. And I don't think it is any big deal.
KEILAR: OK. And it is pre-Labor Day. I know that what really counts is what happens as we go here into September.
We may see some of the same. Who knows. I want to get your take on this latest Monmouth University poll. It shows that 46 percent of registered Republican Iowa likely caucus-goers, they support two candidates who used to be Democrats or identified as Democrats, Donald Trump and then Dr. Ben Carson.
You have these two leading contenders who have said in the past that they're pro-choice. Trump now says he wants to raise taxes. Is this the core of Republican values?
PRIEBUS: Well, look, just because someone was a former Democrat -- I mean, Ronald Reagan was a former Democrat. What matters is what someone is saying today. Do they want to serve this country with a pure heart and make a difference? I think people are looking for that. People are looking for authenticity. People are looking for someone who is genuine.
Those are the things that matter. And so the poll that you're citing I think also cites the fact that people are sick and tired of Washington. It is the same thing that every single one of every pundit in America has been repeating ad nauseum on television and I think it is probably true.
So, look, I think it is early. I think the fact that everyone is talking about the Republicans, and the only thing that people are talking about Hillary Clinton is whether or not she committed a crime, whether or not she is going to get even in further trouble than she already is, and whether or not she is actually going to be the nominee of the Democrat Party.
So I like where we sit right now. And if you look at the polls head to head, we're beating Hillary Clinton in battleground states across America. That's what I think is a good thing and I think ultimately is what is going to enable us to win a long time from now, but in a little over a year and a couple months.
KEILAR: It is coming upon us fast, isn't it, the timeline here for the election.
All right, chairman Reince Priebus, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
PRIEBUS: You bet.
KEILAR: I want to bring in Rebecca Berg now. She's a national political reporter for RealClearPolitics. We have our CNN political commentators, former Obama senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer. We have Republican strategist Kevin Madden and also with us CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny.
I will put it to the two operatives in the group. What was your reaction...
(CROSSTALK)
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I will go first.
KEILAR: All right, you go first. You rebut.
What did you think about what you heard the chairman...
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: Chairman Priebus has a couple things he can't control. Right? He can't control who gets into the race and he can't control what they say.
What he can control is whether or not he builds the infrastructure that he's going to need for whoever the eventual nominee is. And he can go out and build a negative frame around Hillary Clinton, expose her lack of record at the State Department, expose the fact that she is under investigation right now for revealing -- potentially mishandling classified e-mails. On that, on those two metrics, whether or not they're building an infrastructure and going after Hillary Clinton, they're doing a fantastic job and that's all they can do.
[18:25:05]
DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think what the Republicans are doing, Trump in particular, is they're doing an amazing job to help the DNC turn out our voters in 2016.
There are reams of footage that we're going to have of the horrendous thing that Donald Trump has said about immigrants in this country, about Republicans agreeing with him. At the end of the day, I think our primary process has been helping us. Your primary process is also helping.
MADDEN: You have a socialist.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: You have your own problems.
KEILAR: What do you think, though? You see the Donald Trump/Jeb Bush duel that is going on. I just played that video so that the chairman could see it. And he says, Oh, it's not even Labor Day yet. What do you think about that?
REBECCA BERG, REALCLEARPOLITICS: It is still early. That's true. Many voters, as many polls show, aren't paying attention and might not even be paying attention until much later in the year, not only after Labor Day.
But it matters. Here is Jeb Bush who we all thought months ago would be the front-runner at this point in the race, maybe even the prohibitive front-runner, and he is having to respond to attacks from Donald Trump? It shows that he is really starting to take him seriously, that his campaign is taking Donald Trump seriously. Some people might even say he is a little late to the game.
KEILAR: Let's listen to what Donald Trump just -- and a lot of people do say that, Rebecca, you're right. Donald Trump just spoke with CNN's Don Lemon about Democrats voting for him. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When Mitt Romney ran, there was a tremendous, millions of people that are Republicans and conservative Republicans, and evangelicals, and people that I have a great relationship with, they sat home for some reason and they did not vote. You know that. And I'm talking about millions of people.
And had they gotten up and voted for Mitt Romney, he would have won the election. And people are forgetting about that. Plus, I think me more than anybody else, I will cross -- I will go across lines. I think I will have a lot of Democrats.
You know, Reagan had Democrats for Reagan. It was a very big group of people and a very big bloc.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The Reagan Democrats. Yes.
TRUMP: I think I will have a lot of Democrats for Trump. I think I will have a lot of Democrats voting for me, far more than any Republican for the last long period of time.
I will say this. And I will say this very strongly. The Republican conservatives were not energized in the last election. Had they been energized, and had they voted, you would have seen victory for Mitt Romney.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: It is an interesting cross section, Jeff Zeleny, that
Donald Trump is attracting. But are we going to see Democrats for Trump?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Perhaps, if we get to the general election. But I that's getting way ahead of ourselves here.
He actually raised some very interesting things in that. But what he didn't mention were the demographics of this country are changing and have changed so much since all those Democrats voted for Ronald Reagan. Most of those Democrats now identify as Republicans, the blue-collar sort of worker.
So what he didn't mention, what his challenge still is, Hispanic voters, African-American voters, what makes up this Democratic coalition here. So if he would get to the general election, sure, I think he could perhaps get some of those old Reagan Democrats who may still be voting Democratic, but the demographics of the country are not what they were in 1980 or 1984. They're just not.
MADDEN: He says, I'm going to say this very strongly. He should have said, I'm going to say this very wrongly.
He's not right. Mitt Romney got as strong a performance from evangelical voters as did George W. Bush in 2004, who is himself an evangelical. He's not right there. The glaring number was that Mitt Romney only got 27 percent of the vote amongst Hispanic voters. That was one of the reasons that we lost in so many of those critical battlegrounds that have the populations that are growing amongst Hispanic voters.
PFEIFFER: For Trump, there are a lot of people in Kevin's party who believe Trump's theory that if we could only turn out more conservatives, we could win.
That is wrong theory. I hope more Republicans believe that. I hope few of them agree with Kevin. The challenge for Republicans, as Kevin pointed out, is to expand the electorate, to find ways to get the voters who voted for Barack Obama last election to come out for them.
What Trump can do I think that Jeb Bush, Scott Walker will not be able to do is make the election exciting and maybe give people a reason to draw some people into the process who wouldn't be there before. It is hard to imagine to me people who would vote Republican who did not turn out for Mitt Romney coming out for Jeb Bush or Scott Walker. That seems impossible to imagine.
KEILAR: Jeb Bush responded, Rebecca, to Trump's latest attacks today with yet another video painting Trump as a liberal. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you identify more as a Democrat or Republican? TRUMP: Well, you would be shocked if I said that, in many cases,
I probably identify more as a Democrat.
QUESTION: Then why are you a Republican?
TRUMP: I have no idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: OK. Check this out. Then Donald Trump responded today with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. BUSH: We recognize the commitment of someone who has devoted her life to public service. I want to say thank you to both Secretary Clinton and to President Clinton.
QUESTION: What does that make Hillary Clinton to the Bush family?
G. BUSH: My sister-in-law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: You said that so many people, maybe it's too late the way Jeb Bush has responded. But it also seems like every time he does respond, Donald Trump is out with arguably maybe a more effective video, right?
REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: He hits at exactly one of Bush's biggest weaknesses. And he does with it a megaphone. Because whenever Donald Trump says anything or does anything, everyone listens and it gets a ton of media attention, as evidenced by our panel right now. And when Jeb Bush hits back at Donald Trump, it doesn't really make those same waves.
And that's a big problem for him and maybe why he should have started attacking him earlier so Donald Trump wasn't able to get the footing he's been able to get. People are taking him seriously now. If Jeb Bush started attacking him maybe weeks ago, we could be in an entirely different situation.
ZELENY: He tried weeks ago, though, it just never -- it hasn't worked, necessarily. But today was definitely a turning point in what Jeb Bush is trying to do. But the question is, it may not work. But if it shores up some Republican sort of sycophants who are fed up with Trump, if Jeb Bush can get that ballot share number up over the five, six, seven, eight points up to the double digits, he's not going after Donald Trump voters. He's going after people who are supporting others in the race here.
So I think it could be effective in the long term.
PFEIFFER: The problem is, to use the old adage from "The Untouchables," you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. And every time he hits -- he hits Trump, Trump hits harder.
ZELENY: Inside the same news cycle, too...
PFEIFFER: Yes.
ZELENY: ... which I think is particularly effective.
PFEIFFER: He's -- Trump is better at this than Jeb. There's no question about that.
BERG: I think what's so tough for Jeb, though, is that he doesn't want to be as brash as Trump. He still wants to come off as the adult in the room. And so he's using these very reasoned arguments against Trump. Trump says whatever Trump wants, and it never affects him.
KEILAR: And he doesn't worry about that, certainly, I would say.
All right. Rebecca, thank you so much. Dan, Kevin and Jeff, thanks to all of you. This was a great discussion.
And CNN is gearing up to bring you a new round of presidential debates. The Republican candidates get together for a rematch on September 16. We'll bring that you face-off live from the Reagan Library in California.
And CNN will also host the first Democratic presidential debate. That is on October 13 in Nevada.
Just ahead, an update on the manhunt for suspected killers. A veteran policeman is dead. Officials say the fugitive got away with his gun, and CNN is on the scene. We'll bring you a live report.
And we will break down this stunning video. It appears to show police officers shooting and killing a man while he had his hands up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: We're following the breaking news. Three armed fugitives on the run, a community in fear and a police officer shot dead.
Federal agents join the massive manhunt underway in northern Illinois. I want to check in now with CNN national correspondent Ryan Young. He is there at the scene. This is a big search happening all around you, Ryan.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that is the word to use. A massive manhunt that has been going on for several hours now. In fact, we are at one of the command centers here, where officers have been staging throughout the day. And I'll step out of the way here. You can see that business that's just behind me right there. This is part of the command center, the back side where officers are kind of gearing up.
The reason why, I just talked to the owner who owns that shop. And he tells me the shooting happened a half a mile behind that business, at a dead-end street. And they believe the suspects ran back from that direction toward a wood line where there's residents. And we can see the officers kind of piling up on the other side, to make sure this has been shut down.
The three suspects are still on the loose. We know that 32-year- old Officer Joseph Gliniewicz, who was known as G.I. Joe in this area, was shot and killed. He did radio in that he saw one black male, two white males looking suspicious. When he got out of the car, there was a foot chase, and then all of a sudden, that officer was taken down. He was shot; he was murdered.
And now his friends and other officers in this area are looking for them. They've been doing this all afternoon. I can tell you it's been very hot there. And a lot of people are hoping that maybe the heat will bring these suspects out, but there's a massive wood line that's in this direction. And we did hear from sheriff's deputies a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. CHRISTOPHER COVELLI, LAKE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: A preliminary investigation indicates Fox Lake Police Lieutenant Joseph Gliniewicz had encountered three suspicious subjects. He advised his radio communication that he was out with three suspicious subjects: two male whites and one male black. Shortly thereafter, Lieutenant Gliniewicz informed communications he was in a foot pursuit. His communications then lost contact with him.
When our first responding back-up units arrived at the scene, they located Lieutenant Gliniewicz, injured with a gunshot wound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Now, we've seen heavily-armed officers throughout the area shutting down areas, making sure that helicopters stay above the scene to make sure they keep searching for the three suspects.
One thing I want to point out is the mayor talked about this officer being a father. So many people are very upset about this in this community. In fact, just a half mile down the road from where we're standing, there's a small group of people who are standing there with signs saying they support police officers. So you can understand, in a small community like this of 10,000, they're really taking this to heart as the search continues right now for those three suspects.
KEILAR: All right. Ryan Young, thank you so much, in Fox Lake, Illinois.
I want to bring back now CNN's Don Lemon. We also have CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin; HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson; and CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.
Tom, talk to us about the danger facing this community and the police there right now. [18:40:15] TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well,
Brianna, the main danger is that they could look for refuge in somebody's home that's occupied, and take them hostage, possibly kill somebody and steal their car and drive -- try to drive away. And that could have already happened, and they just don't know it yet and haven't located any other victims of either a carjacking or a home invasion.
Also, they could ambush other police officers as they search through wooded areas or open shack doors or housing doors. They could be waiting for them and just open fire as soon as they open the door and start through it.
So it's very dangerous for the public, for the police, for everybody involved at this point.
KEILAR: And Joey, there's also this commuter rail, METRA, that runs through the area. I think there's clearly a concern that they could have used that to escape.
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. I think there is, without question, Brianna. But you know, what I've learned, certainly as a prosecutor, and never more so as a defense attorney, the police are very skilled in the area of apprehension. And it's for two reasons.
No. 1, it's a resource issue. And No. 2, interagency cooperation. When you look at the resources brought to bear, you're talking about aerial support, that they're scouring the area with. You're talking about, you know, police officers, the manpower that they have in searching the area. You're talking about dogs. You're talking about technology. And then you're talking about what you mentioned, which is the cooperation even of the federal authorities. And so they'll get interagency cooperation between law enforcement in that area as well as the areas that exceed that; and of course, the community is on notice about that.
And so certainly, they could have escaped using the rail, not using the rail. But wherever they are, I think I'm pretty confident that the police department is well-equipped to capture them and bring them to justice.
KEILAR: Don, some people have said that it seems like police are being targeted more than ever before. What do you think about that?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know. It's -- I don't know if police are being targeted more than ever before. And I don't think, if you look at the statistics, the official statistics, it doesn't show that police are being targeted more. Just as it doesn't show that people are being targeted by police more. And I think those are narratives that is created in the media or by certain people.
And I think it's awful when it happens, whenever police are targeted or whenever police target other people. But I don't think that there -- that it's happening more.
I think that it's just this. We have more people who are able to now capture it when it comes to police targeting other people.
And sadly, we've seen these stories of law enforcement play out where law enforcement, they have very dangerous jobs. And I think over the past couple weeks, we have learned that with the officers who have been killed in a number of places, including the officer who was killed today. Police have very dangerous jobs. And we need to respect that.
KEILAR: Do you think, Jeff, that people are just hypersensitive? And we've also seen, obviously, these two high-profile cases here in the last days of two police officers being killed.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they are hypersensitive, and they should be hypersensitive. You know, the police are supposed to be the good guys. They're not supposed to be killing unarmed people who are not a threat to anybody. I mean, there is nothing wrong with being outraged about that. And that doesn't diminish the great work that most police officers do.
But when you see, as we now do, on people's cell phone cameras, really ugly incidents where police officers have used unjustified force, perhaps also including the San Antonio case we're talking about today, people are upset, and they should be upset.
KEILAR: All right. Stay with me, guys. Because we're going to talk about a shooting in Texas of a man who appeared, seemingly, was surrendering with his hands up. We have the video. We'll show you that. We'll discuss it after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:48:36] KEILAR: There is outrage about an amateur video that has surfaced. And it appears to show a police officer shooting a suspect after he put his hands up.
Let's talk more about this with our guests. First, I do want to take a look at this video. But I do want to take a look at this video. But I want to warn our viewers, this is graphic video. So, I just want to put that out there. We're going to take a look at and it then discuss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bro, they just shot that (EXPLETIVE DELETED), bro.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: OK. So this is in Texas.
And I do, if we can, if we can run -- if we can run that video again. I want to show the end of the video where we see how the officers are responding here.
But, guys, let's talk about this, because you have police and their side of the story is that this man, Flores, was running in front of his home. He was in San Antonio. As they approached him, they say he resisted arrest. He was armed with a knife.
But, still, what's your take on this, Jeffrey?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we need to see more apparently, according to the police, there is another video that shows closer up. But it looks horrible. I mean, it's just horrible. This guy has his hands up and he is shot dead. You know, I'm all for complexity but some things are not that complicated.
[18:50:00] And based on this video -- now, you've got to get all the facts. But based on this video, and I've seen the full four minutes that the station has -- I mean, it's just a repulsive thing to watch.
KEILAR: I think we do have the video where we have it closer up. We certainly have still pictures here.
Tom, you look at this from your law enforcement perspective. What do you think?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think we need more details of this and put it into full context. My understanding is the officers were responding to a family disturbance where a woman and a child had been injured, possibly by this individual, and they were bleeding.
And if he's out there with a knife and if he's resisting arrest -- we see one hand go up and wave around but we can't hear the audio.
We don't know if he's actually signaling that he's surrendering or if he's taunting the police, and we can't see whether he has a knife in his left hand, so I'd like to see the other video. I don't think we need to rush to judgment right today and say that's it, it looks horrible and these officers are guilty. I want to see more about it.
KEILAR: Does it matter, Don, if he's taunting the police? Does it matter even -- while certainly I think our sympathies would be with whatever happened to his wife and his small child of course, does that matter in the scheme of what we see in this video?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I mean, it does matter, especially if you have two officers on leave and could face prosecution, I think it -- I think it does matter what he's doing and I agree with the rest of the panel.
You know, I agree with the rest of the panel, you can't really see that much. If you just look at it here one would assume his hands are up and he doesn't have a knife but I don't know if he has the knife in the hand that he has up. I don't know. I can't see. It looks horrible.
And if you, the officials I think one of the police officials there, a woman who said that the video looks disturbing for the police officers. So I think it does matter and I think that we should wait to figure out exactly what's happening. But I do have to say this, you know, I know we're not in the
business of sanitizing things, but every time we show someone on the news who has lost their lives or in the process, it's disturbing.
KEILAR: Yes, Joey, final thought to you here in our last minute?
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Certainly, we can wait and no one wants to rush to judgment but this is very unsettling. I get and understand. If he was taunting, let's say that, say he was saying the worst possible things, that's not the standard. The standard is, does he represent an imminent threat, an imminent danger, are you in fear for your life?
And so, we can talk about the 18-month-old in the house that was apparently harmed and the woman in the house with an injury to her head, everything that preceded the video, but when you're in a court of law, you judge it by the actions at the time. Were these officers in reasonable fear for their life? That's what the viewers need to evaluate and that's what a jury, if it comes to that, needs to evaluate. And by that standard, I'm very troubled and deeply disturbed that he was shot and killed under those circumstances.
KEILAR: Gentlemen, thanks so much. Jeffrey Toobin, Don Lemon, Joey Jackson, Tom Fuentes, thank you.
And we do want to remind you that Don Lemon will be back with much more here in just a few hours, including his exclusive interview with Donald Trump at 10:00 p.m. Eastern on "CNN TONIGHT'. You don't want to miss it. Thanks, guys.
Just ahead, former Vice President Dick Cheney talks to CNN and he lashes out at the nuclear deal with Iran, saying that President Obama gave away the store.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:58:06] KEILAR: Congress is due to vote this month on the Iran nuclear deal, which has left lawmakers and the public bitterly divided. Among those lashing out at the agreement, former Vice President Dick Cheney. His new book takes aim at President Obama's foreign policy. It's co-written with his daughter Liz and it's titled "Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America."
Dick Cheney spoke about the Iran deal with CNN's new special correspondent, Jamie Gangel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: The objective was no nukes for the Iranians, but that's not what's happened here. The objective was no enrichment for the Iranians. That's not what the treaty does. It's not a treaty. It's what the agreement does. Basically, what it says within a specified period of time. Iran will be able to do whatever they want to do with respect to developing nuclear weapons.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: President Obama says it's the best deal we could get, and opponents are pro-war. You say?
CHENEY: He's wrong. If -- we've done much better than that in the past and other negotiations. He gave away the store.
GANGEL: President Obama says we will be able to verify.
CHENEY: No, again, they said they would inspections any time, anywhere, and they gave up on that. You have an inspections process that doesn't justify the name. In fact, there is some indication that one of these side agreements they have, the Iranians will be allowed to inspect themselves. It's far and away from being close to what would be required to have really for strict inspection.
GANGEL: President Obama said opponents of the deal are either lying or ignorant.
CHENEY: Well, that's -- I think that's a very sorry statement by the president of the United States. Just he had to read his own agreement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: You can watch the full interview with former Vice President Cheney tonight on "ANDERSON COOPER 360": at 8:00 Eastern.
And thanks so much for watching. I'm Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
