Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Kim Davis Released; Refugee Crisis; Joe Biden Rising?; Aired 18-19:00p ET

Aired September 08, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:03]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: False leads. Police reveal that several clues in the death of a veteran police officer haven't panned out. Now they're looking at new DNA evidence as the mystery grows and suspects remain at large.

Desperate breakout. Refugees make a frantic dash through a police line into a cornfield. Did they escape? CNN is there for a dramatic moment in an exploding global crisis.

We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: The breaking news, the Kentucky clerk Kim Davis is now a free woman five days after she was jailed for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses.

The Republican presidential candidates Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz,they were there along with a huge crowd of supporters. Stand by for a live report on the terms of her release and what happens next.

Also tonight, damage control for Hillary Clinton as she slips in a new in the latest poll. She is now going farther than ever before in taking responsibility for her private e-mail controversy, saying it was a mistake and now saying she is sorry.

At the same time, Joe Biden is gaining momentum. He inches ahead of Bernie Sanders in a new national poll, even though the vice president hasn't decided whether or not to run for the White House. On the Republican side, Donald Trump is going after his favorite target with a new video that portrays rival Jeb Bush as being so low energy, that he puts people to sleep.

We have correspondents, analysts and newsmakers standing by to cover all the news that is breaking right now.

First, let's go to the fortunes of the Democrats. You can see how Hillary Clinton's support has fallen rather dramatically especially in the last month, while Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders have made substantial gains.

Let's get some more now on the race from our senior political correspondent, Brianna Keilar. She has the very latest -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The campaign is making adjustments. For one thing, they're tapping...

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): Vice President Joe Biden is on the rise as Hillary Clinton dips in the polls. New poll numbers out there show Biden up 10 points from last month, practically tied for second with Bernie Sanders and Biden isn't even in the race, firing up a Labor Day crowd in Pittsburgh yesterday

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Here's the bottom line. I acknowledge that. I'm mad.

KEILAR: It sounded like a campaign speech.

(on camera): Mr. Vice President, it sounds like you have a rationale for running.

BIDEN: I'm going to run part of this parade.

KEILAR (voice-over): And Biden did, jogging along the parade route and questions about whether he will run.

BIDEN: You have to talk to my wife about. I have got to talk to my wife about that.

KEILAR: Meanwhile, Clinton's numbers have taken a dive, down 10 points nationwide as her campaign tries to turn a corner. According to "The New York Times," aides are crafting a strategy for her to show more spontaneity, heart and humor.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Love your hat.

I do kind of know what Donald is going through. If anyone wonders if mine is real, here's the answer. The hair is real. The color isn't.

KEILAR: But President Obama's former top adviser David Axelrod is poking fun at the reboot, tweeting: "The report read more like the Onion. Her detailed plan to show more authenticity and spontaneity. Just do it."

In Iowa this weekend, Clinton tried to shore up her shrinking lead in the polls.

CLINTON: I believe I have got the vision, the policies, the skill, the tenacity and the determination to get us back on the right track.

KEILAR: But she is still on defense about her use of a private e-mail server, telling ABC News today:

CLINTON: That was a mistake. I'm sorry about that. I take responsibility.

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders is beating Clinton in a new poll of New Hampshire primary voters.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't tell anybody. I think they're getting nervous.

KEILAR: Sanders crediting his support with his grassroots campaign efforts.

SANDERS: We have the people on our side. And when people stand together, fighting for social and economic justice, when we stand together, we will win.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: But while this summer has been all about the Sanders surge, it is the Biden bump that is dominating headlines going into the fall.

Talking to Clinton campaign sources, Wolf, they think if Biden to enter the race, he would see his poll numbers dip under the harsh spotlight of the campaign trail.

[18:05:03]

BLITZER: We will see what happens when he decides. Brianna, thanks very much. Don't go too far away.

Tonight, the State Department is feeling the impact of the Clinton e-mail controversy and taking new action, and a so-called e- mail czar is being appointed.

Let's bring in our global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott. She has the latest on this -- Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, officials say Secretary Kerry is very frustrated that the State Department has really come under fire for not being responsive to requests by the public and Congress for documents. He feels the department has been slow-footed and some critics have even called it foot-dragging.

He is also bothered by what he feels is unfair criticism of the State Department who he feels is ill-equipped to deal with an ever- increasing number of congressional investigations and lawsuits. Many officials have told me, this has put a burden on the department and its personnel. The majority of these requests for documents over the past six months have been related to the widening controversy over Clinton's e-mail usage.

Now Kerry has tapped a former career diplomat named Janice Jacobs to spearhead all of this. Jacobs will serve as Kerry's transparency coordinator, charged with responding to the Freedom of Information Act and congressional requests faster and more efficiently. She is a 49- year career diplomat, veteran with a lot of experience leading reform efforts, particularly in consular affairs, at the center of a major effort to revamp visa policies after 9/11.

She was also tasked several years ago with clearing up a backlog of millions of passport applications. She has a lot of experience dealing with the kind of red tape we're talking with these government agencies at play with the e-mails and Kerry also wants her to improve the State Department systems, to implement recommendations of a review by the inspector general he has commissioned.

It is not just about the Clinton e-mails. Wolf, it's about fixing how the State Department keeps and retrieves records. We talked to some of the committees requesting these documents, the House Select Committee on Benghazi, the Senate Judiciary Committee, and they said they hope this means the State Department will now respond to their requests in a more timely manner.

BLITZER: But is the State Department still holding firm, Elise, that the e-mails she received on that private e-mail server, the then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, did not contain classified information, top secret information, even though investigators at the U.S. intelligence community now saying at least of two those e-mails were top secret at the time they were sent to her?

LABOTT: That's right. The State Department is maintaining they received some of the information from unclassified, open sources. They're doing an analysis that they hope to present to the intelligence community. The intelligence community says, listen, we're the originators of the documents. We know that this information could only be gleaned by classified sources.

But officials tell me they have documents that signify the State Department had learned this information outside of classified systems. So they will maintain that this is not classified information and the State Department should not be criticized as such.

BLITZER: We will see what happens. All right, Elise, thanks very much.

Let's get to the Republican presidential race. Donald Trump's campaign is ridiculing Jeb Bush in a brand-new video. But it's another rival who has been quietly giving Trump a run for his money, is in the spotlight once again tonight.

Let's bring in our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, who is working on this story for us -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Donald Trump says over and over how nice Ben Carson is. That's part of the reason why he hasn't attacked Carson. That could change after Carson said in an interview today that Trump's controversial idea to round up undocumented immigrants and send them home is unworkable, that as Carson's rise means more scrutiny.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): Ben Carson back on the campaign trail for the first time in 11 days. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some people hate rats

and some people hate snakes. I hated poverty.

BASH: Carson's absence from the public eye didn't seem to hurt him. Just the opposite. Over the past two weeks, his popularity has grown, second in Iowa at 22 percent, third in New Hampshire at 11 percent and second place behind Donald Trump overall in the latest national poll.

CARSON: It is something about America.

BASH: And yet the unconventional candidate is not in Iowa, or New Hampshire or any GOP contest state, but the liberal bastion of San Francisco.

CARSON: I'm not going to be a traditional politician, so I'm not going to do things like traditional politicians do.

Meanwhile, Jeb Bush, who ended the summer slipping in the polls, is starting to spend some of the big dollars he has raised to try to climb back up.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As governor, I cut taxes.

BASH: This first Bush television ad pitches himself as an outsider, but one with a record.

BUSH: If you want more D.C. politicians or more self-promoters, you have got options. I'm offering something different, leadership, ideas, and a proven conservative record.

BASH: And in an effort to show his personality, and capture a large audience, Bush will appear tonight on Stephen Colbert's first "Late Show" after taking over for David Letterman.

[18:10:09]

NARRATOR: Having trouble sleeping at night?

BASH: Even as Donald Trump is out with another Instagram video mocking Bush as low energy.

NARRATOR: Jeb, for all your sleeping needs.

BASH: In response to that, the Bush campaign recycled part of a Trump clip from a video week praising Hillary Clinton.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary has always surrounded herself with very good people.

BASH: As for Trump, the man who took the top spot, despite eyebrow-raising comments like questioning John McCain's war hero status, he says in a new biography he -- quote -- "always felt that I was in the military," according to "The New York Times," because he was sent to military school for behavioral problems, that despite never serving in the military, and draft deferments from Vietnam. Here he was on the subject a few years ago.

TRUMP: Success is a very important thing. It's certainly been very important to me. And I can tell you that one of the great choices I ever made in terms of success is the choice of going to NYMA, New York Military Academy. I loved it. It was terrific training. It was tough, but it was good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Tomorrow, Trump will come right here to Washington, D.C., and he is going to appear with one of his competitors, but one he has had a political bromance with. That is Senator Ted Cruz.

They're going to rally on the steps of the Capitol as Congress begins debate on the Iran nuclear agreement. And, Wolf, they will do that even as the president today got 41, maybe even 42 senators, enough support to block Republicans' efforts to scuttle the Iran deal.

BLITZER: The Iran nuclear deal and that's what Trump and company will protest against tomorrow.

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: Dana, stand by. Brianna Keilar is back with us, along with our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny and our chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Gloria, let me play that Instagram that Donald Trump released today, going after Jeb Bush. Here's the full thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: Having trouble sleeping at night? Too much energy? Need some low energy?

BUSH: They have an HSA in some companies. And some companies don't. But I think the norm ought to be...

NARRATOR: Jeb, for all your sleeping needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Gloria, how effective are these kinds of commercials or ads, whatever you want to call them?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Really, this election is about getting votes. It is not about getting ratings.

If we were talking about getting ratings, we should say, OK, all of with us have high energy. This is about running for president of the United States. Donald Trump, when you talk to him, when you listen to him, he talks about all the ratings he brings to networks, including ours, which he does.

I think Jeb has a different point of view, which is he might want to talk about issues. He might want to talk about some things which by the way are boring. So I think it is kind of funny and cute and whatever, but not serious.

BLITZER: And he gets a lot of free ads by networks like us.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I think you're right about that, except a couple things. Number one, as I said in the piece, this was sort of free media. It was Instagram, social media.

And it has gotten so much more attention on social media than the one that Jeb Bush actually spent money for, for the first time, which was in that piece.

BLITZER: Let's play that. Let's play the Bush response with his free media, Instagram. This is his response to Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Who would you like representing the United States in a deal with Iran, with this regime?

TRUMP: I think Hillary would do a good job. Hillary has always surrounded herself with very good people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you think? That was me, by the way, asking him a question.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You noticed my old glasses.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I love the new glasses, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

ZELENY: Look, I think this kind of symbolizes the issue here. That's a very serious ad. That's about a serious topic. The Trump ad is about -- it could be like on the Onion newspaper or something.

I think those two ads sort of typify what the issue in the campaign is. But what they're both doing is, they're poking one another. Donald Trump is trying to agitate Jeb Bush in advance of the debate next week. Trying to get under his skin. I'm told by Jeb Bush advisers that he hates it when it Donald Trump says he is low energy. That is what this is all about, a little bit of gamesmanship.

BASH: Can I just add one little reality check here that we should add, sort of an addendum there, which is that the Bush campaign says that this woman, because this is not the first time we have seen her, that she fell asleep. She is a working mother. She got up at 4:00 in the morning. As a working mother who sometimes get up at 4:00 in the morning,

I get it. You sometimes just want to go sleep wherever you are. The problem for Jeb Bush, as you said, is that it just fits a narrative, a narrative that Trump is really pushing very hard. It doesn't seem like it's a coincidence that that is going along with Jeb Bush 's numbers going down.

KEILAR: But politics is undeniably showmanship. That's such a big part of it. Even if some of these candidates, Jeb Bush, want to talk about the issues, they want to stress the issues, you have to admit, Donald Trump is a showman and he is really, really beating them at that part of the competition.

[18:15:01]

BLITZER: Guys, stand by. We have more to discuss, including our newest political reporter, Manu Raju. He spent some time with Harry Reid today. Among other things, they talked about Donald Trump. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:03]

BLITZER: we're back with our political team.

Harsh new criticism of Donald Trump from the Senate's top Democrat. We have an exclusive new interview with Minority Leader Harry Reid. He sat down with CNN's new senior political reporter, Manu Raju.

Welcome, Manu, to CNN. We are going to get to you in a moment.

But Reid is still recovering from a fall off of a treadmill, but clearly he is in a fighting mode right now, especially when it come to Trump and the Republicans. I want our viewers to listen to some of your exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Of course, I'm sure you have been enjoying watching the Republican primary take shape. What do you think of Donald Trump? Does he have the temperament to be president?

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: Well, his Republican friends are going to have to determine that. His temperament certainly is not much different than the rest of the team that he's running against. Donald Trump is speaking for the Republican Party.

Why? Why do the Republicans who are running for president never criticize him on anything? Immigration? All of his remarks about the country generally, about the leadership in the country? The only time they have jumped on him is when he came out and said John McCain is not a war hero. That's a pretty easy one, because everyone knows John McCain is a war hero.

They all line up and give their -- oh, how could Donald Trump say anything about John McCain? He's a war hero.

Well, where are -- all of his other slanderous statements, why don't they say anything? Because they're afraid to, because he is speaking for them. He just does it in a different tone, in a different language.

RAJU: Jeb Bush has been pushing back on him for the past two weeks.

REID: If he has, no one has noticed.

RAJU: But why do you think that Donald Trump is resonating with Republican voters?

REID: Because he is speaking to their hearts. That's what they believe. Finally, they got someone that is going directly to them. Get rid of government, get rid of everybody, get rid of Social Security, get rid of all the foreign entanglements. Climate change, there is nothing to that.

The whole list of issues that they agree with him, that's why he is resounding to his benefit, because they like what he says.

RAJU: How do you think this is going to affect the presidential race, is going to affect your ability to recapture the Senate in 2016?

REID: Well, Donald Trump and the Republican gang that's running for president certainly hasn't hurt our chances.

I think we're going to win back the Senate. That's a goal I have. If you ask me, what is your -- I have a lot of goals these last 16, 17 months. But the one goal that I have, and I will be unrelenting on that, is do everything I can to make sure that we retake the Senate. It is good for the country.

RAJU: And you predict you will.

REID: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Manu, let's talk about this exclusive interview you had. I want to just correct. He didn't fall off a treadmill. It was one of those resistant bands that unfortunately hit him in the head.

How does he feel? How is he looking right now? He's still wearing those dark glasses.

RAJU: He's still wearing those dark glasses. And we talked about his eye at the end of the interview and he said, look, I probably am never going to be able to see again out of that eye. He said I'm reading a lot slower these days.

Maybe there's some experimental surgery, in which there's going to some sort of eye transplant, but he is sort of resigned to the fact that his sight, his vision is gone in that eye. BLITZER: So, in that one eye, he is blind? Is that what you're

saying?

RAJU: Yes. That's exactly...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Really? But he can see with the other eye?

RAJU: That's right.

BLITZER: He's getting used to that, but maybe there's some treatment down the road.

RAJU: Perhaps. Perhaps. But I think he sort of realizes that it is what it is and he is ready to move on.

BLITZER: But he is happy that Trump is in the race. He thinks this will be good for whoever gets the Democratic nomination?

RAJU: That's clearly the message that he wants to send, that this is good for the party. The longer that Trump stays in, the better that he does, not only will it help potentially Hillary Clinton or whoever emerges from the Democratic field, but also down-ticket races.

They're going to try as hard as they can to tie Republican candidates who are in some of the key Senate races to Donald Trump, to some of his positions, particularly with Hispanic voters in some of these key swing states. We will see if that actually works.

BLITZER: Look at the poll numbers that came in today, Gloria. This is Monmouth University poll.

In August, Hillary, among Democrats nationwide, was at 52 percent. Now she is 42 percent. Joe Biden, who hasn't even announced whether he is running, he was at 12 in August and he's up to 22 percent now. Bernie Sanders was at 16. Now he's up to 20.

I guess the worse her numbers are, the greater the pressure -- at least this is what a lot of people say -- on Joe Biden to jump into the race.

BORGER: Yes, I am sure it is very tempting.

But let me just also point out that both Clinton and Biden have a 71 percent favorable rating within the Democratic Party. She has some more unfavorable than he does.

[18:25:01]

But in talking to people about what is going on in Joe Biden's head right now, nobody really knows. I think this is a personal, emotional decision for him and everybody understands. He has run twice before. He's lost. And one person, one Democrat said to me that his best day in this

race would be the day before he got in, because once he got in, he would be back to being Joe Biden with the gaffes and everything else. And Hillary has a machine and money and a plan.

KEILAR: And listening to Joe Biden last week, I was struck by this. I wonder if you were as well.

I thought, that does not sound like someone who is going to get in this race. And then I was in Pittsburgh yesterday. And he sort of came out of gate very quickly, was very fiery. And I thought, wow, that really sounds like a campaign speech. But right now he has got a very close hold with some longtime friends, some confidants. He hasn't decided. And he's really taking it day by day. He's still very much grieving the loss of his son right now.

BASH: Of course.

To Gloria's point, that this could be -- the best day of his campaign could be the day before he announces, that's not unlike other people. They're politicians. Look at Hillary Clinton. Her best numbers historically were when she wasn't in politics. She was secretary of state. She was above it all.

And I'm actually thinking of it along the lines of back in 2012 on the GOP side, that everybody, that the people in the base who were looking for somebody other than the one that they had in front of them, which for them it was Mitt Romney, anybody who would come along they shot up in the polls. That's I think the dynamic going on with Joe Biden.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Gloria, you have covered Joe Biden for a long time. The difference between his running this time, if he decides to run, and the two other times when he did not do well, is that he's been vice president of the United States now for almost seven years. He will have been vice president for eight years.

And when you're vice president, that is different than when you're just a U.S. senator.

BORGER: Right.

And, obviously, he is more qualified, if you will, to be president of the United States, because he has served as vice president of the United States. But I think people who are close to him believe that what is happening now is that Biden is getting the respect that he deserves.

Remember, just months ago, everybody else was in the swimming pool having fun. I'm going to run, I'm going to run. And poor Joe Biden was out there watching everybody else and not even being talked about. Now he is being talked about seriously, which his people, his close friends believe he should be. He is enjoying this, clearly. But that doesn't mean that in the

end, he will decide that he ought to do it. He is, after all, in his early 70s.

ZELENY: He is and not the de facto standard bearer for the party establishment either. It was interesting to talk on Senate Democrats about Joe Biden. They're not rushing to support him.

In fact, most of them support Hillary Clinton still. So clearly, he is going to have a lot of work to do to consolidate support within his own ranks. People who supported him for years are just not there yet.

BLITZER: Yes, but he looks good, Joe Biden, walking around. He may be 72, but Bernie Sanders turned 74 today.

BORGER: Donald Trump is 69.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Sixty-nine years old. Donald Trump is 69. So these guys are in good shape. We will see what happens.

KEILAR: Lots of energy.

BLITZER: Guys, thanks very, very much.

BORGER: Except for what's his name.

BLITZER: The next Republican presidential debate, by the way, is just eight days away. It will air right here only on CNN September 16 live from the Reagan Library in California. CNN will also host the first Democratic presidential Democratic debate on October 13 in Nevada.

Just head, it was part political rally, part religious revival. We're going to have a live report from Kentucky on the release of that county clerk, Kim Davis, and what happens next in the fight over same- sex marriage.

And we're also learning about new DNA evidence in the investigation of a police officer's death. But after other leads have gone cold, are authorities any closer to solving the mystery?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The breaking news out of Kentucky, where a county clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples is now out of jail. Kim Davis fought back tears as she was greeted by a large crowd of supporters. Not one but two Republican presidential candidates, they were there on the scene: both Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz.

[18:33:58] Let's go live to Grayson, Kentucky, for the very latest. CNN's Martin Savidge is on the scene for us. What a day it's been over there, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was just an amazing day, really. Well, I mean, first of all, you could not imagine that you could upstage not one but two presidential candidates, as you said. Kim Davis managed to do that by the simple fact that she walked free out of the front door of that detention center, and even she seemed shell-shocked by that very fact.

The only person that could have known this was coming was the judge that had sent her to jail initially for contempt of court, because she refused to issue marriage Los Angeles marriage licenses to same-sex couples. But all that changed in a hurry, and when she stepped out, she was greeted as a hero by Christian conservatives. This is how she spoke to the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM DAVIS, COUNTY CLERK JAILED FOR REFUSING TO ISSUE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE LICENSES: I just want to give God the glory. His people have rallied, and you are a strong people! We serve a living God who knows exactly where each and every one of us is at. Just keep on pressing. Don't let down. Because He is here. He is worthy. He's worthy. I love you guys. Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:35:17] SAVIDGE: Now, the judge said that he had freed Davis because, in his words, he felt satisfied that his order was being complied with. That being that marriage licenses are now being distributed.

But he also had some very strong conditions. No. 1, that she could not in any way interfere with that process by returning to work, couldn't interfere with her deputies. It is unclear tonight, Wolf, whether she will abide by that kind of condition. Her attorneys implied that she seemed unrepentant, despite all of it.

BLITZER: We'll see what she does. As you know, Martin, the Republican presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee, a former Arkansas governor, he was there by her side when she was released. He organized, in effect, this rally over there. What was his basic message?

SAVIDGE: You know, his basic message was, as others had said, that she had been a hero. She had stood up when others had not. And he also said that, if she has to go back to jail, he has an idea of who could take her place. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The courage of her convictions was more important than simply even her own freedom. And she was willing to go to jail for what she believed.

She has ignited something across this country, where people are tired of the tyranny of judicial action that takes people's freedoms away, takes their basic fundamental constitutional rights and puts them in jeopardy.

But I've already told her that if somebody needs to go to jail, I'm willing to go in her place. And I mean that, because I'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they believe something of their faith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: It should be pointed out that this crowd did not necessarily reflect what is the overall opinion of many people in Kentucky when it comes to Kim Davis. But that point he made about her igniting something, there was one sign held up in the crowd, wolf, and it read like this: "Kim Davis, the Rosa Parks of religious freedom." That's how strongly some here believe her actions were -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Martin. Thanks very much.

Let's get some more. Joining us, our CNN anchor Don Lemon; our legal analyst Sunny Hostin; our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, her lawyers -- her lawyer says that the licenses that have been issued over the past few days by some of her deputies, while she was in jail, are invalid. Is that true?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No. It's false. What is -- the practice in Kentucky is that the clerk can sign a wedding license or a deputy clerk can. And it makes sense. The clerk is not there every day. So the deputies frequently do it. They do it in every county.

So this is just another attempt to obstruct the equal rights that same-sex couples are now entitled to in this -- in this county in Kentucky and every county in the United States.

BLITZER: Sunny, the reason that Davis was in jail, she was in contempt of court, according to this federal judge. If she goes back to work in the next day or two, and she doesn't honor this commitment to go ahead and approve same-sex marriage certificates, licenses, what happens? She goes back to jail?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: She would go back to jail. And I think, Wolf, that the judge made it very clear that this is not a legal win for Kim Davis. I've sort of been seeing that all over today, this was some sort of legal win for Ms. Davis. That is not true. What the judge found was that, because the licenses are now being issued, she could be let go. But if she in any way interferes with the issuance of those licenses, she's going to end up right back in jail.

And I've got to tell you, I'm just sort of offended by the fact that she's being called the Rosa Parks of the religious freedom movement. Because what she is doing, or was doing, was discriminating against other people. Sort of trampling on other people's constitutional rights. So any suggestion somehow that she is a hero for flouting the laws is, you know, shocking to me. Because we are a nation of laws, and the Supreme Court has made it very clear that same-sex couples can marry.

So you know, I think that if she does anything to interfere with this process, we're going to be talking about her the same way we're talking about her right now.

BLITZER: Don, what do you make of the fact that not one but two Republican candidates were there on the scene embracing her fight, showing their solidarity with her today?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I was actually surprised by it, because conservatives and the Republican Party are usually the people who are saying we must follow the Constitution. We must adhere to the Constitution. We need to follow the law. They're the party of law and order and Constitution.

Yet in this very instance, when it doesn't fit a narrative, they are somehow not in favor of the Constitution and not in favor of the law.

Listen, Kim Davis, you can say whatever -- you can think whatever you want to think about her. As religious person, she can be as homophobic as she wants to be. I'm not surprised that she's homophobic, considering what she did. But I am surprises that people are supporting her in this instance, because those same scriptures that they are pointing out were the same scriptures that they used to keep people segregated; that they used during integration when they said, you know, segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. Same scriptures. Same Bible verses that people picked and chose which ones they wanted.

Because, I don't know if you can remember that famous scene from "The West Wing," where the fake president, Josh Bartlett, says, "Am I going to burn my mother at the stake, because she wears two different fabrics from two different type of worms or what have you? Am I going to get rid of my staff member, because he works on Sunday? Am I going to call the cops, or do I kill him myself?" There are so many different thing in the Bible that people take literally when they should not. And so they are picking and choosing on this one.

I am surprised that the candidates are there, and it appears to me that they may be exploiting her at this point.

BLITZER: Let's move on and talk about something else that happened today. Sunny, I'll get your thoughts first. This proposed settlement with Freddie Gray's family in Baltimore. Even though the agreement isn't connected necessarily to the trials of these police officers, the huge dollar amount indicates a strong criminal case right there. What -- how much did she get? Like six -- the family got more than $6 million?

HOSTIN: That's right. I mean, I don't think we can read into the settlement amount in terms of how strong case is, quite frankly.

But I think what we can read into it is that this is a city that wants to heal. The leadership wants the city to heal, and this is a way to move forward. And I think that that's what the mayor made very clear in the

statement that she issued, which is "We want to move forward, and this is the step in the right direction." And I think that the city should be commended, because it was done very quickly. We know that the state's attorney, you know, it announced the indictments, I think, May 1. And so we're only a few months later, and we are already talking about this deal with the family. And perhaps this will bring some solace to the family, but I don't think that we can connect this settlement with the criminal trials that are coming.

BLITZER: And Jeffrey, the $6.4 million that the family is going to receive from Baltimore, what impact, if any, does it have on the upcoming legal procedures?

TOOBIN: I don't think it has much of an impact. But just -- it's worth remembering that, you know, we talk a lot about how immoral it is to see police misconduct. And it is.

But it's also incredibly expensive for taxpayers. You know, New York City just paid a similar amount to the family of Eric Garner, who was killed in Staten Island. These -- these cities don't want to put these cases in front of juries, because juries give a lot of money. So it is worth remembering that this is also a financial blight on cities, as well, as just immoral actions on the part of a small minority of police officers.

BLITZER: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.

Sunny Hostin, thanks to you, as well.

Don, of course, thanks. Don is going to be back with a lot more news just in a few hours from now on "CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON" at 10 p.m. Eastern.

Guys, thanks very much.

Just ahead, an attempted escape by refugees breaking through a police line, racing into a cornfield. Did they get away? We're going to show you what happened.

And the manhunt that led nowhere. Now numerous leads aren't panning out. Could a new piece of evidence, though, solve the mystery of an Illinois police officer's death?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:26] BLITZER: The refugee crisis that's overwhelming Europe right now is getting more attention around the world. Tonight, we have a gripping new look at the desperation so many of these refugees feel after fleeing war, oppression and terror.

Our senior international correspondent Arwa Damon is joining us now live from Hungary, where so much is going on right now, Arwa.

Give us the latest, Arwa, because you've been doing an amazing job reporting this tragedy. ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf,

what we saw earlier today took place at a holding area that is in Hungary, right up against this Serbian border. Refugees are only meant to be spending about a few hours there, but many end up stuck there for days. And it's basically an open field, but now, it's pretty littered with trash. There is very little by ways of humanitarian aid, very little food or water, really miserable conditions, especially for people who have been through so much.

And earlier today, this was not a coordinator organized effort, Wolf, but people decided to take matters into their own hands and actually broke through the police cordon.

Take a look at what we saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON: We're running now with these migrants and refugees who just broke out of the holding area right along the border with Serbia. The police are literally behind -- CNN. The police are literally right behind them and in front trying to bring them under control.

[18:50:01] There are hundreds of them that staged this breakout because they were they fed as the conditions were being held in.

These are all people that just managed to break out and they have been running now for about the last half hour. They have been running through the sunflower fields, the corn fields, they are very afraid because as you can see, they are noticing that the police are over to the side. We've been hearing sirens.

These dramatic scenes are unfolding. These people literally walking their way through, people traveling with the smaller children were not able to keep up. They believe it will be safety in numbers for them as they try to make their way hoping that the police will not catch them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON: And, Wolf, one of the more heartbreaking scenes that we saw was two children, a brother and a sister and in the chaos, they had lost their shoes. So they were walking on top of the stones and the uneven ground in their bare feet and they didn't even complain. They kept going. Their mother was carrying their younger brother who wouldn't stop crying but she couldn't even stop to try to console him.

Now, at the end of this, the police did finally manage to stop their advance after a few hours by negotiating with them, agreeing to bring in food and water and promising them that if they got on buses, they would be taken to an area where they could overnight and they would not be fingerprinted and then, in the morning, a train would come to take them to the Austrian border.

So, we're going to be following this very closely, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you so much, Arwa, for bringing these stories to the world right now. So important.

Arwa Damon in Budapest, Hungary, for us with the very latest.

Just ahead, the false leads, the new clues of a death of a beloved Illinois policeman. There is a lot police, though, aren't telling us.

Stand by. We'll update you on what we know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:56:28] BLITZER: A week after the shooting death of Illinois Police Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz, surveillance videos are not showing investigators what they hope to find, but evidence from the scene may give them a solid new lead.

Here is CNN national correspondent, Ryan Young.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A possible break in the case as a search for three suspected cop killers enters the second week.

CHIEF GEORGE FILENKO, CMDR., LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIME TASK FORCE: Evidence located by our evidence technicians is now being processed by the northern Illinois crime lab is DNA. The DNA we recovered is not Lieutenant Gliniewicz's DNA. So, that raises a red flag.

YOUNG: But investigators now sound doubtful tht the multiple surveillance videos from the area will lead to any suspects.

FILENKO: There were three individuals on that videotape that matched. They have very general description that was given by Lieutenant Gliniewicz over the radio.

I can tell you that we have located those individuals through our investigative process, interviewed all of those individuals and we have confirmed that we believe at this point, they were not involved in this. At this point, we don't have any video that's relevant to the investigation.

YOUNG: Meanwhile, the search continues, state and federal agents have used helicopters, dogs, boats and body heat sensors in their search but still, no witnesses have come forward. The only detail of the three reported suspects comes from the only person to have seen them, a few words radioed in from the lieutenant before he was shot.

LT. JOE GLINIEWICZ: I'm out near the old concrete plant checking out two male white, male black.

YOUNG: Still, authorities say they are following up on more than 100 tips.

FILENKO: I'm still optimistic. You know, I have to stay optimistic. I have to stay positive. I have to keep moving forward. YOUNG: Fifty-two-year-old Gliniewicz, husband and father of

four, had been an officer for more than three decades.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: And there is a $50,000 reward involving this case -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Ryan Young, thanks very much.

Tom Fuentes is with me.

What do you make of what's going on right now?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I don't understand, Wolf. I mean, I know why you need secrecy at the crime scene, you want to keep back facts that only the killer would know, because people falsely claim that they did it. So, you want to hold close that information. But as far as descriptive data, the videos, all of this past week, that none of them have been released, none of them have shown to the public, I just -- I can't explain that. I don't understand why.

BLITZER: Because you think they would release more information to try to get the public to help, right?

FUENTES: The end of last week, the FBI investigating a bank robbery had a surveillance video, two subjects, they put it out in the media. The next day, a family member called in and said, I know who did it, a member of my family did it.

I mean, that's why you put these things out. That's why we have Amber Alerts, that's we have be on the lookout. And at this point, there has been nothing additional put out as far as descriptive information from any of the videos from day one. I think you put it out and then try to sort out from there.

BLITZER: But they did say they found some DNA evidence not related to Gliniewicz necessarily that may be helpful.

FUENTES: May be. But they need a suspect. And I understand, they have been trying to compare it to state and national databases, so far have come up negative. So, you know, that would -- later, if they develop a suspect, that will be important.

BLITZER: Let's hope they resolve this and do it soon. Thanks very much, Tom Fuentes, helping us.

Thanks very much for watching. That's it for me. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUFRONT" starts right now.