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The Situation Room
Man Shot at Capitol Building; Interview With North Carolina Senator Richard Burr; Trump Threatens Lawsuit; Sanders Challenging Clinton to New York Debate; Trump, Cruz Spar Over Wives, Delegates; Cruz Talks about New Campaign Tone; New Raids Amid Urgent Manhunt for Terror Attack Suspects. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired March 28, 2016 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And lawsuit threatened. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz now have more to argue about besides their wives. Tonight, there's a dispute over delegates, and Trump says he's going to sue.
We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
We're following breaking news this hour, gunfire up on Capitol Hill, gunfire that sent crowds of tourists into a panic and led to a lockdown on Capitol Hill for nearly an hour. Capitol Police say they shot a man after he pulled out a gun at the visitors center and pointed it at officers. At last word, the suspect was in surgery.
Law enforcement officials identifying him as Larry Russell Dawson, a 66-year-old man who caused a disruption at the Capitol before, all this playing out during the popular Cherry Blossom Festival here in Washington, D.C., and on the heels of the terror attacks in Belgium. In Belgium tonight, police released video showing the man believed to be the third airport bomber.
He's still on the loose amid warnings additional attacks are also likely in the works, the manhunt intensifying after a potential suspect was freed for a lack of conclusive evidence.
Back here in the United States, there's now new fuel for the ugly fused in the GOP presidential race between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, Trump now threatening a lawsuit, challenging party rules in Louisiana where Cruz may receive more delegates, even though Trump won that state's primary.
We have our correspondents, our analysts, our newsmakers standing by as we cover all the news breaking right now, including the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr. He's standing by live.
But, first, let's go to CNN's Brian Todd. He's on Capitol Hill.
Brian, what's the latest? What are you hearing? BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, something new in the
investigation we can show you at this hour. We're on the west side of the Capitol now, right by the reflecting pool here. And this has been identified by police as the suspect's vehicle, this silver Dodge Ram 1500.
It's got Tennessee plates on the back. Police have surrounded the vehicle. We have asked if they have searched it. They will not tell us yet. They may be waiting for some kind of a warrant to search the vehicle. We're not quite certain about that.
But police have confirmed that this is the suspect's vehicle. Now, we can tell you a little bit more at this hour about the suspect. He's identified, according to two law enforcement sources who spoke to CNN, identified as Larry Russell Dawson. He has not been publicly identified by law enforcement, but according to documents, court documents from October 2015 that CNN has obtained, Larry Russell Dawson disrupted a House of Representatives chamber session.
And in that incident, he loudly stated to Congress he was a -- quote -- "prophet of God." Those court documents describe him as a 66-year- old man from Tennessee, a suspect identified by law enforcement sources as Larry Russell Dawson. He has been wounded in this incident in the Capitol.
Given the security scare here following the terrorist attacks in Brussels, this man today set off a major security incident at the Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): A chaotic scene in the heart of Washington as visitors to the U.S. Capitol run for shelter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard, "Get out, get out, there's an active shooter." And so we all ran out, went around the side of the building. Police escorted us out of the building, the most stressful experience I have ever had in my life.
TODD: The incident sparked by a lone gunman who set off the metal detector as he entered the Capitol Visitors Center. Tourists and Capitol staffers were ordered to shelter in place.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I saw everybody acting a little nuts and then I saw policemen coming through and officers coming out in a row. They are just like sprinting down and they are going, move it, get out of the way. And then I figured something is going on.
TODD: A female bystander was wounded by shrapnel.
MATTHEW VERDEROSA, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF: An adult male entered the north screening facility in the Capitol Visitors Center. During a routine administrative screening, the individual drew what appeared to be a weapon and pointed it at officers.
The officer fired and struck the suspect who was subsequently treated by medical personnel. The suspect was taken into custody and transported to the hospital for treatment.
TODD: Capitol Police say the suspect acted alone and was known to authorities as a frequent Capitol grounds visitor. This comes as tourists from around the country have flocked to D.C. during the popular spring season.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the updates -- they gave us updates, and they were very congenial to us, very hospitable, and made us feel safe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: And, again, an update to the investigation that we can show you at this hour, police surrounding this Dodge Ram 1500 pickup truck with Tennessee plates.
This has been confirmed by police as the suspect's vehicle, police surrounding it now. And they may be searching it in the minutes ahead of us here.
[18:05:00]
We can tell you also from two law enforcement sources that the suspect identified as Larry Russell Dawson, not been publicly identified yet by law enforcement, but according to court documents, he disrupted a House of Representatives chamber session in October of 2015 and stated in that incident that he was a prophet of God. He's identified in court documents as a 66-year-old male from Tennessee -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian, stand by.
I want to get to the terror attacks in Brussels right now. We're getting some new information, the manhunt for the suspects now more urgent than ever, with the threat of additional attacks hanging over Europe, indeed over the world.
For the first time, we're now seeing the actual video of one prime suspect pushing a cart at the airport just before the deadly blast, this as more of the wounded die, bringing the death toll now up to 35.
The U.S. State Department confirming four Americans are among those killed.
Our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, is joining us now.
Pamela, we have seen multiple raids, new arrests in Belgium. What are you learning?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
And despite several arrests, authorities are working at a frenzied pace to locate nearly 10 other suspects they believe are connected to the attacks, including two of the bombers, this as Belgian authorities release one man who was thought by some investigators to be one of the bombers.
This all reveals just how fluid and complex the investigation is. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Tonight, the mystery is deepening about the third bomber at the Brussels Airport, seen in this video pushing a cart believed to be holding a bomb in a black bag. His identity and whereabouts remain unknown.
A man identified by authorities as Faycal C was arrested and charged with terrorist murder. CNN has learned investigators initially thought he was involved in the attack based in part on information given to authorities from the cab driver who picked the bombers up.
But the Belgian prosecutor released a statement today saying Faycal C was released from custody because the clues that led to his arrest were inconclusive. His attorney tells CNN affiliate BFN his client is innocent.
As authorities also try to identify the alleged second metro bomber, the hunt is on for this Syrian man known as 28-year-old Naim al-Hamed. He's described as very dangerous and probably armed and is considered a critical figure in both the Brussels and Paris attacks. He is one of at least eight suspects European security agencies are searching for in connection with the attacks.
KAREN GREENBERG, DIRECTOR, CENTER ON NATIONAL SECURITY: This is a vast network. It is interlaced at many points and separate at many points. And that means that you have to go both at the center and at the tentacles at the same time.
BROWN: Belgian police continue to sweep the country for more terror suspects. They conducted 13 raids on Sunday. Three men are now charged with participation in the activities of a terrorist group. So far, the terrorist network in Europe has extended from Belgium to France, Germany and Italy, where an Algerian national was recently arrested on suspicion of producing fake residency documents linked to the attacks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And in a separate ISIS cell, authorities have arrested two Frenchmen believed to be in the advanced stages of planning a terror attack in France. Intelligence officials believe, Wolf, that other ISIS operatives are still in Europe plotting more attacks. And the concern is that some of these attacks are imminent -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, that's a deep concern. All right, Pamela, thank you.
Joining us now is the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Republican Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina.
Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.
And I want to get your assessment of what happened in Brussels, what's happening right now.
But, first, quickly on the shooting incident on Capitol Hill, I assume you have been briefed by your staff. What are you hearing?
SEN. RICHARD BURR (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, Wolf, I think everything that you have heard publicly is 100 percent accurate.
My concerns are with my personal staff, my committee staff and then could this have been a terrorist act? We now know that's not the case. This was a mentally disturbed individual, apparently. And what we saw was a security apparatus in Washington worked exactly like it was designed, and in this case, only the shooter was hurt.
So, I think it's a good day for the United States Capitol Police.
BLITZER: One woman was slightly injured, we're told, by some shrapnel. She just happened to have been in the area where the police, Capitol Hill Police, opened their fire on this individual.
He has been in the hospital. He's not been killed in that incident. But it does show -- and I think you are absolutely right. Capitol Hill Police did what they were supposed to do. The system worked, right?
BURR: Yes, they absolutely did on probably one of the busiest weeks that we experience in Washington. And that's the cherry blossoms out.
BLITZER: Let me also get your sense, the news, the breaking news we're following right now. The Justice Department has confirmed that the FBI has accessed the data on the San Bernardino shooter's phone. As you know, they weren't able to do that. They have got that, that they were able to do so. They have withdrawn the prosecution, if you will, going forward as a result of that.
[18:10:10]
They no longer need Apple's help. What have you been told about this?
BURR: Well, let me just say this, that the forensics of that phone is absolutely crucial to the completion of the San Bernardino investigation. And the FBI needed that phone to really conclude their thoughts and where their concerns are.
I hope that what they have been able to access provides them enough to draw the conclusions they need to. But this is just one example of what I fear we will face in the future many, many times, not only in terrorism, but in regular criminal prosecution, where we have got to get into electronic devices.
Prosecutors with court orders need access to that, or we won't be able to make the cases in court. So, terrorism is a small part of it, Wolf, but criminal investigations and criminal prosecutions are going to make up probably over 90 percent of the cases in the future.
BLITZER: Have you already been briefed on what data was retrieved from that phone, how significant it may or may not be?
BURR: I have not been briefed on what they found. I know what they looked -- they were looking for, and there was every reason for the FBI to push as hard as they possibly could to get that information.
Remember, they are in charge of keeping America safe. And let's let them do their job, and I think, in this case, they are well on their way to doing that.
BLITZER: All right, let's talk about the terror incidents in Belgium earlier in France. The man suspected of having been that third airport bomber was released today due to a lack of evidence.
I mean, there's a lot of questions about Belgian capability right now tracking down these terrorists. First of all, what do you know about this so-called man in white?
BURR: Well, let me just say this, that I think it's still early in this investigation to start making conclusions from it.
Every good investigator is not going to necessarily put the correct information out publicly, and we will wait to see how this unfolds. But there's clearly -- there clearly was an operational cell in Belgium, in Brussels. They may know the full extent of those that were involved in it today, but maybe haven't necessarily accessed all the individuals.
Looks like it's separate from the two arrests that were made in Paris in the last 48 hours, where they weren't part of this cell. And you and I have talked many times, Wolf, about my concerns about the European continent, whether that's France, whether it's Germany, whether it's Belgium, whether it's the U.K., just simply because there seem to be so many people prepositioned in Europe with operational plans.
And we even saw in the case of the media that was released from the laptop computer that, in this case, it seemed that they upped by a few days this attack because of the fear after one was captured and that they have spilled the beans. So this shows a flexibility, not only an operational capability.
BLITZER: Because what was very worrisome to me -- and I assume you have been briefed on this, Mr. Chairman -- is Salah Abdeslam, the individual you're referring to who was arrested a few days after the Brussels Airport and subway attack, when he was questioned by local authorities, he wasn't even asked the simple question, what is in the works right now? Are you plotting more terror?
They reviewed what happened in Paris, but they didn't even get to that. That shows a certain level of incompetence, doesn't it?
BURR: Well, Wolf, let me say this.
Could we see a better level of cooperation within all of the European partners? Absolutely. Would it enhance this investigation for the U.S. to be able to be a part of it? Yes, it would, because our databases are unbelievable.
But, also, our ability to interrogate based upon names and places where people might be might enable us to get more information out of some of the potential terrorists.
But, at the end of the day, this is one that is going to be led by the Belgians. And I think you and I have talked before, major concern. They have been on a 24/7 footing for security for months. And they really don't have a force that's sized right to be able to maintain that indefinitely. But that's the case throughout Europe.
And, to some degree, it would be the case here if we had to surveil as many potential terrorists as they have in Europe.
BLITZER: Yes. There's a lot there and presumably more on the way.
All right, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, stand by. We have more information coming in.
We will resume this right after a very quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:19:13]
BLITZER: We're back with the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr. We're talking about terror in Europe, indeed around the world.
Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you agree with your counterpart in the House, Devin Nunes, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. He suspects that the U.S. was the target, Americans were the target of those terror attacks at the Brussels Airport and at that train station.
Do you have any evidence to believe that may be true?
BURR: The fact that they targeted the Delta and American counters, the fact that the metro area was close to the U.S. Embassy, in between stations, there's reason to believe.
We have to assume, Wolf, that every terrorist event from Da'esh, or ISIL, intends to -- intends to kill Americans. It just so happens that it happens on other turf right now, but the United States is still the target. There's intent. And what we have seen is a tremendous capability.
[18:20:14]
BLITZER: We know that at least four of those 35 killed were, in fact, Americans. More than a dozen Americans were injured. Those numbers could go up, though.
Yesterday, in a different terror attack, Mr. Chairman, we saw a splinter group of the Pakistani Taliban target Christians at a park, an amusement park on Easter Sunday in Lahore, Pakistan, killing more than 70 people, including a lot of kids.
This international fight against terrorism, specifically going after Christians, whether in Syria or Iraq, now in Pakistan, it's a very disturbing development. Is it just beginning?
BURR: Wolf, I think we're in the midst of a war. I have said that before on your show. And we need to take it that seriously.
I think, in the past seven days, we have had terrorist attacks in four places around the world. We leave out Turkey, and we just had Pakistan. The carnage that's created out of these -- and Pakistan, to have young children is just unbelievable.
But we have got to take it seriously, and we have got to go where the operational planning is happening. And that's in Syria. It's in Iraq, and soon to be -- as I have told you before, there are 14 countries across the globe where ISIL has a presence today. And the question is, is it an operational presence?
BLITZER: Richard Burr is the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.
BURR: Great to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Just ahead, we will move on to the race for the White House.
Donald Trump venting more anger at Ted Cruz today through tweets and a threatened lawsuit, new fireworks on this, the eve of a CNN town hall with the three remaining Republican candidates.
And can Bernie Sanders catch up to Hillary Clinton as he rides a wave of momentum after his Western Saturday sweep? Or will the delegate math simply be too much for him?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:26:54]
BLITZER: Tonight, Donald Trump once again refusing to apologize for retweeting what was widely seen as a nasty picture of Ted Cruz's wife. The two Republicans have been waging a war of words over their spouses for days now.
And now Trump has another beef with Ted Cruz involving those all- important delegates they need to win the presidential nomination.
CNN political reporter Sara Murray is covering the GOP race for us in the next battleground a week from tomorrow, Wisconsin.
Sara, what's the latest?
SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
Donald Trump has sort of prized himself on running this lean campaign. And now it looks like it's coming back to bite him, Ted Cruz managing to out-organize him in a state like Louisiana. And now Donald Trump is threatening to sue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MURRAY (voice-over): Donald Trump is getting outmaneuvered by Ted Cruz in the delegate fight.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I won Louisiana, and now I hear he's trying to steal delegates. Welcome to the Republican Party.
MURRAY: And now he's threatening to sue, tweeting: "Just to show how unfair Republican primary politics can be, I won the state of Louisiana and get less delegates than Cruz. Lawsuit coming."
Trump's latest threat comes after a "Wall Street Journal" report revealing, even though Trump narrowly won the state of Louisiana, Cruz appears poised to pick up more delegates.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm always amused when Donald doesn't know what to do, and so threatens lawsuits.
MURRAY: The Trump/Cruz feud is continuing, as Trump refuses to back off his attacks on Cruz's wife, Heidi.
TRUMP: I didn't even know it was necessarily a very bad picture of her vs. Melania.
MURRAY: Trump today speaking with conservative talk radio host Charlie Sykes.
CHARLIE SYKES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Mr. Trump, before you called in to my show, did you know that I'm a #neverTrump guy?
TRUMP: That, I didn't know.
MURRAY: Sykes repeatedly asking Trump if he would apologize to Heidi Cruz.
SYKES: Most real men, when they screw up, they will go, you know what? I was a hothead. I shouldn't have done that.
TRUMP: No, I do apologize. I believe in apologizing. Before I would think about apologizing, he owes me an apology, because what he did was wrong. He sent out a picture to people in Utah that was inappropriate.
(CROSSTALK)
SYKES: Well, actually, he didn't. He didn't. And you know that he didn't. You know that it was a super PAC.
MURRAY: Cruz also making the point that a Facebook ad featuring an old modeling photo of Melania Trump came from an anti-Trump PAC, and not his campaign.
CRUZ: The ad they put out was deplorable. And as soon as I saw it, I denounced it. MURRAY: The Republican rivals are also trading jabs over a tabloid report about the Texas senator, Cruz accusing Trump and his backers of planting the story, but offering no proof to back up his assertion.
CRUZ: These are complete, made-up lies. They're garbage. But it's indicative of just how low Donald Trump will go.
MURRAY: A claim Trump denies.
TRUMP: I had nothing to do with it. The campaign had absolutely nothing to do with it.
MURRAY: As the campaign devolves into an unsavory personal battle, John Kasich is calling for civility, blasting out a fund-raising e- mail declaring: "Families should be off-limits. Enough is enough with the mudslinging and the personal attacks."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MURRAY: Now, Donald Trump even took a break from these political attacks to delve a little bit deeper into his foreign policy strategy.
[18:30:07] He did an interview with "The New York Times" in which he laid out an "America first" strategy. He said he would use trade deals, negotiations there to sort of leverage our relationship with other countries. And he also said he would prohibit the United States from buying oil from Saudi Arabia unless they commit troops to fight ISIS, which has been raising some eyebrows. One of the people who's been very critical of Donald Trump's approach to foreign policy is John Kasich. We're going to be hearing from him, Wolf, in just a few minutes.
BLITZER: All right, Sara, thanks very much. Sara Murray reporting for us.
Ted Cruz has a campaign event in Wisconsin this hour, as well. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is on the scene for us. And Sunlen, I understand you just had a chance to speak with Senator Cruz. What did he say?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. You know, Senator Cruz really, as he was campaigning here in Wisconsin today, he really seemed to hit the reset button, or at least try to repeatedly, when he was asked about Donald Trump today. He answered, who cares? Who cares about Donald Trump.
So certainly trying to change the narrative, reclaim the narrative from what we saw between the two of them last week. And I did sit down with Senator Cruz moments ago on his campaign bus here in Wisconsin and asked him about that shift. Here's a small part of our interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SERFATY: Senator, today you seem to debut a new line saying who cares about Donald Trump? Who cares about Donald Trump? Is this a shift in tone? SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, from the
beginning our focus has been on issues and substance. When others go to the gutter, I have not responded in kind.
Donald has shown a willingness from the very beginning of this campaign to traffic in insults and personal attacks. He's directed them at everybody else. He's directed them at me. He's directed them at family members and my wife. That has no business in politics. And I think people are tired of it. These are serious times.
Abroad we have the threat of radical Islamic terrorism. Here at home, millions are hurting. They want to see jobs coming back to America. They want to see wages coming up again. Donald doesn't have the answers on any of those policies. So what he does instead is goes to the gutter and engages in personal attacks and resorts to sleaze. I think people are tired of it. They don't care.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SERFATY: And Senator Cruz also issued a big and direct attack on Donald Trump. He said he issued a challenge at tomorrow's CNN debate, which will take place here in Wisconsin. He said, "Look, we're all going to be up there. We're all going to be speaking at the -- on the same stage. Why don't we go one on one?" He wants to debate Donald Trump one on one tomorrow night here in Wisconsin, Wolf. So a big challenge coming from Senator Cruz today.
BLITZER: It's not going to be a debate tomorrow night. It's going to be a CNN town hall. Voters in Wisconsin will have the chance to ask questions of the three candidates, separate opportunities for the three candidates. Anderson Cooper will moderate.
All right, Sunlen, stand by. We'll get back to you.
I want to bring in our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash; our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; and our senior politics -- our politics senior digital correspondent, Chris Moody. Guys, thanks very much.
Gloria, first to you. On Trump's foreign policy that he outlined in that very long "New York Times" interview, he said some controversial things, but some analysts think it's actually going to help him with that Republican base.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, yes, sure. Everything he says helps him with his -- with his supporters, who get stronger and stronger.
Look, his world view, basically, is that there is a Trump doctrine -- is that we are a weak world power, and through economic bargaining, we can get stronger and make our enemies weaker. And so in that, you know, he suggested that perhaps Japan and South Korea should be able to get nuclear weapons. We ought to withdraw our troops from Asia, potentially.
And so when you try and sort of categorize him, he's not an interventionist. He's not a neocon like a lot of Republicans have become. And what he says to these reporters was "I'm an America first guy." And for his supporters, "America first" is like "make America great again."
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
BLITZER: His point being the U.S. has such a huge debt right now. Let these other countries chip in.
BORGER: Yes.
BLITZER: Start spending some more of their GDP so U.S. taxpayers can spend less on protecting them.
BASH: It really is such a difference from all of the attacks we heard from so many Republicans of President Obama about leading from behind. He's not even going there on that. And to your point exactly, it is all about making his supporters and people he wants to be his supporters understand that he gets that they look around, and they say, "Why are we spending so much money abroad? Why are we spending so much of our blood and treasure abroad? Why are we not focused on what we need to do, which is home?" It's a nationalistic idea more than anything else.
BLITZER: That's going to resonate, you agree, Chris, with voters in Wisconsin a week from tomorrow, for example?
CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's going to resonate in the primary. The question is if he is elected, if he's nominated, will it resonate in the general election?
Because I think you're going to have a debate possibility between maybe Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. And on foreign policy, that's the place where she's going to really try to show the most contrast. She's going to speak about her own history, her own experience.
[18:35:16] And, you know, for a lot of this campaign, he did not talk about specifics about his foreign policy. Now he's just really starting to do that with "The New York Times" interview, really digging in and showing that he doesn't really follow any mold at all that we've traditionally seen. So I think you're going to see foreign policy be a real wedge in the general election.
BLITZER: And I think in the town hall tomorrow night, all three of these of these Republican candidates will be asked for specifics by the voters out there in Wisconsin. As you know, Gloria, we just heard it reported, as well, Trump says he's now going to sue because he won in Louisiana. He got more votes than Ted Cruz. But Ted Cruz is going to wind up with more delegates presumably. And Trump says, "Just to show you how fair Republican politics can be, I won the state of Louisiana and get less delegates than Cruz. Lawsuit coming."
BORGER: Right. Well, I'm going to put on my nerd hat here, my delegate nerd hat. Because what Trump is talking about is kind of complicated, and every state has different rules. And I was talking to some national Republican officials who say, "Look, this is a state party issue. They pass it down to the state."
And what it is, you have in this particular state of Louisiana, you've got five delegates who are committed to Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio is nowhere. You have five uncommitted delegates. They can go anywhere. That's ten.
If those ten decide to go with Ted Cruz, that's their decision. What Cruz is doing very well and Trump is not doing as well, although they're starting to do it, is he's trying to make sure and find out where their people are and, on the second ballot, who they will be with. And if I were in the Trump campaign, I would be saying to my staff, and I'm sure they are, you better get going on this.
BASH: Oh, yes. The Cruz campaign has a war room dedicated to this and only this. To knowing -- not just where their delegates are, but to figuring out and having people in place at every meeting where the final delegates are going to be -- to be decided in each state. And they're very aggressive about it.
BLITZER: Yes. By all accounts, they have a very good ground team, if you will.
BASH: And I'm not sure lawsuit is his go-to. It's what he used successfully in business, threatening lawsuits. And he's tried it with Ted Cruz on the citizenship issue. I'm not so sure...
BORGER: Whatever happened?
BLITZER: All right, guys. Stand by. We have a lot of news happening on the Democratic side, as well. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:42:21] BLITZER: We're now back with our political team. Also tonight, Bernie Sanders is challenging Hillary Clinton to another debate before the New York primary on April 19. Sanders now feeling emboldened by his very dramatic sweeping weekend victories in three Democratic caucuses out west. The delegate math still isn't adding up in Sanders' favor, at least not yet.
Our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is joining us from Wisconsin. He's covering the Democrats for us. Jeff, Sanders says he has the momentum. He says he has the momentum right now. What's the latest?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, he does say he has the momentum, and he's trying to rely on persuading some of those super delegates, those party officials and elected -- elected leaders who help make the decision here. He's winning over a few of them, but it's hardly a ground swell. The way for that to happen, his advisors know, is for him to get a big win. And this Wisconsin primary one week from tomorrow will settle the score between Sanders' momentum and Clinton's math.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SANDERS: With your help, we're going to win right here in Wisconsin.
ZELENY (voice-over): Riding high after three big weekend wins, Bernie Sanders is trying one more time to stop Hillary Clinton. The winds of their still-hot Democratic primary fight are blowing toward Wisconsin.
Sanders says momentum is on his side after sweeping Washington state, Alaska and Hawaii. But the math remains with Clinton, who's eager to focus on the battle ahead with Republicans.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What kind of justice would a President Trump appoint? Or for that matter, what kind of attorney general? What kind of lower court judges?
ZELENY: In pledged delegates based on voting results, she holds an advantage of 237. But her biggest edge comes in super delegates, those promises from party leaders, who overwhelmingly support Clinton. The bottom line: the Clinton campaign has the overwhelming lead.
Sanders hopes a win in Wisconsin where he started planting a flag at one of his first mega rallies last summer could shake up the race. On CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," Sanders told Jake Tapper the outcome is still far from certain.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the momentum is with us. A lot of these super delegates may rethink their position with Secretary Clinton. A lot of them have not yet declared. And then you've got super delegates who are in states where we win by 40 or 50 points. I think their own constituents are going to say to them, "Hey, why don't you support the people of our state? Vote for Sanders."
ZELENY: Sanders is challenging Clinton to another debate in New York before the April 19 primary.
SANDERS: I would hope very much that as we go into New York state, Secretary Clinton's home state, that we will have a debate -- New York City, upstate, wherever -- on the important issues.
[18:45:07] ZELENY (voice-over): There's no agreement yet.
JOEL BENENSON, CHIEF STRATEGIST, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Senator Sanders doesn't get to decide when we debate, particularly when he's running a very negative campaign against us.
ZELENY: The Clinton campaign, growing increasingly annoyed, is treating Sanders with a gentle touch. They need his supporters if she wins the nomination. But the acrimony at Sanders rallies becomes clear at the mere mention of Clinton's name.
SANDERS: Secretary Clinton, who receives millions of dollars from Wall Street --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Now, those big rallies have been a hallmark of the Sanders campaign. But the Clinton campaign, not so much.
Wolf, you can see the room behind me here. It's empty now. But just a few minutes ago, Secretary Clinton was wrapping up a speech on the Supreme Court, speaking to a much more intimate audience by design.
She knows she cannot attract big crowds here, but she's making the argument that things like the Supreme Court and other matters require her leadership. That's why she gave a speech today on the Supreme Court and not on Bernie Sanders -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And she did a major speech on counterterrorism only the other day as well.
All right. Jeff, thanks very much.
Let's bring back our panel. Gloria, is it realistic to think that some of those 400-plus superdelegates that Hillary Clinton has right now could move over to Bernie Sanders? By our count, he has about 27, although his campaign insists he may have 35.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think it's realistic right now, but I was just speaking to a top Sanders adviser who said that right now in the near term, their goal is to target some of the superdelegates who are uncommitted, and they say there are about 200 of them. Then, if they keep winning, I mean, this is the grand strategy, then if they keep winning, they hope that some of the committed superdelegates will, as Jeff was pointing out, you know, maybe change their mind because Sanders has such momentum. But, first, they have to get to the uncommitted superdelegates.
BLITZER: We're going to have a big contest a week from tomorrow in Wisconsin.
He's putting a lot of pressure on her to go ahead and have this debate in New York before the April primary in New York state. She is saying, not so fast.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: She is because, you know, it sort of is come full circle. The conventional wisdom from Team Hillary Clinton at the beginning of the campaign was fewer the debates, the better because she was --
BLITZER: Front-runners always want fewer.
BASH: Right, because she was worried about tripping up and what-have- you. Then it turned out he did a lot better than anybody in Clinton world had anticipated. So, then she was OK with doing debates.
Well, now, it looks she does have the mathematical ability to pull ahead. And as you heard Jeff Zeleny report, she's already trying to pivot towards the Republicans, pivot toward issues and leave Bernie Sanders in her rear-view mirror.
So, why would she agree to do a debate? She might, but it's something she'd probably go into picking and screaming. BLITZER: And what you hear from the Clinton campaign is that Bernie
Sanders is becoming increasingly more vitriolic or whatever word they want to use, tough on Hillary Clinton. As a result, not so fast, they say.
CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: The stakes are getting higher and higher. The pressure ramped up heading east. The headlines were that Bernie won over the weekend. I don't think that's the news. The news is the margin he won. The massive victory he had.
That's going to send or should send a message to the Clinton campaign that even if she ends up winning this thing, she cannot ignore all of those Democratic voters who voted for Bernie Sanders, sent a real statement to her campaign.
Now, with the superdelegates, he needs to pull a then-Senator Barack Obama, remember, in 2008. Well, Hillary Clinton had all the superdelegates. They all said it's going to be Clinton. And Obama came along and peeled them away.
Bernie Sanders can't do that by winning state he's expected to. He needs to surprise people in states that are Hillary Clinton territory.
BLITZER: Gloria, why did she do so bad in Hawaii, Alaska and Washington? She was crushed, 70 percent, 80 percent.
BORGER: Crushed.
BLITZER: He got over there. We had been told she learned her lessons from 2008 about being more assertive in these caucuses.
BORGER: Well, we know these were states that were tailor-made for Bernie Sanders. I mean, when she wins in diverse urban settings. She wins an overwhelming majority, 70 percent, October percent 80 percent of the African-American vote. And in the states that we saw over the weekend, there wasn't that kind of electorate. So, it was tailor-made for Bernie Sanders. Young voters came out and voted for him.
If she does have an Achilles hill going into the general election, should she get the nomination, look at where her voters are and you see these young voters. Just don't -- there's a huge enthusiasm gap.
MOODY: I think a Bernie supporters would say that a place like Hawaii, certainly diverse. Also in Alaska, about 64 percent white, but fewer Latin Americans, fewer black American voters. And I think Bernie Sanders supporters have been pushing back a lot on the diversity --
(CROSSTALK)
[18:50:01] MOODY: But you're point is still --
BLITZER: I think Tulsi -- Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii probably helped him in Hawaii as well.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: All right, guys. Stand by. We have more coming up.
Just want to remind our viewers. The final three Republican presidential candidates, all will appear in a CNN town hall in Wisconsin tomorrow night, exactly one week before the primary there. Anderson Cooper will host. Be sure to watch tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.
Coming up, we've got some newly released video showing the mysterious man in white walking next to the Belgium airport bombers. Stand by for more on the investigation, the threat of new terror attacks in Europe and beyond.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:55:05] BLITZER: Investigators are now setting their sights on the mysterious man in white who is believed to be the third bomber in the attacks at the Brussels airport. A suspect they thought might be the man in the video now has been released.
Let's bring in our CNN national security commentator Mike Rogers, our CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, and our law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.
Paul, this man, the suspected third airport bomber, they're calling him "Faycal C", he was released today due to a lack of evidence. Are the Belgium authorities on the wrong track when it comes to finding the so-called "man in white"?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it appears he wasn't the man in white. The taxi driver that picked him up from the bomb factory on the morning of the attacks, according to his lawyer, misidentified him as being the man that was picked up, and that's why he was charged and brought into custody.
But it appears now that Belgium authorities do not think that that was the case, that he wasn't picked up by that taxi driver, so they're kind of back to square one, if you'd like, with finding this man. One candidate Naim al-Hamed who is somebody who came into Belgium from Syria, was picked up by Salah Abdeslam, in a refugee camp in Germany, and we've been told by a source close to the investigation that he's suspected of being operationally involved in the Brussels attack.
We've got hold of a security bulletin listing him as a suspect in this cell still at large, still considered armed and dangerous, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, they're got their work cut out for them. Mike Rogers, a horrific terror attack in Lahore, Pakistan, yesterday, targeting Christians on Eastern Sunday at an amusement park. This comes on the heels as a lot of other attacks targeting Christians whether in Syria or Lebanon. Hundreds of thousands of Christians have now been forced to flee after centuries living there.
This is going to escalate, I suspect. What are you hearing? MIKE ROGERS (R), FORMER HOUSE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: There's 2
million Christians in Pakistan. The reason this was interesting from an attack perspective is it happened in the province of Punjab. Lahore and Punjab are the economic cultural heart center of Pakistan. Lots of military officers are recruited out of there, a lot of their political elite.
So, this was a splinter group from the Taliban that pledged support to ISIS, then last year re-flirted with the Taliban, now conducted a full-scale large attack in Lahore. They were trying to send the Pakistani government a message. And, unfortunately, what you'll find is the pressure that the Pakistani military has been putting on in the tribal areas of Pakistan, of groups just like this. The Taliban, al Qaeda, LET, this particular splinter group, shows you that they're going to lash out, and they're able to lash out into deep into Pakistani territory.
BLITZER: Tom, I want to show some video, show our viewers some video as well, two of the Paris bombers, Brahim and Salah Abdeslam, only months before the suicide attack in Paris. Now, you see them, they were partying. They were smoking, presumably drinking at nightclubs, having a great time. Eight months later, they're engaged in this.
That's not all that unusual, is it? We know of the 19 9/11 terrorists, months earlier, those guys were partying and going to strip clubs in Vegas, having a good time, at least some of them as well.
FUENTES: Well, the typical hypocrisy, Wolf. They've managed to put out that, well, we're going to be, you know, martyrs for God, and do all of what we're going to do for Allah . So, yes, we're allowed a little fun in the meantime while we're preparing to die. I think it's part of the absurdity of anybody following these guys that that's what you're following.
BLITZER: What about that? And, Paul, expand that, because you've done a lot of studying, the relationship of these terror cells, and Europe's organized crime and drug networks because sometimes these terrorists are recruited from those networks.
CRUICKSHANK: Well, Wolf, the relationship is not so much with organized crime, but with unorganized crime with petty gangsters. I mean, Salah Abdeslam, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the ringleader in the Paris attacks, the Bakraoui brothers, all these people involved in robbery, some of them robberies, but it's in prison they're become radicalized. And there, they establish some connections which down the road can be helpful in acquiring weapons and they're operating clandestinely in Europe, Wolf.
So, more of a connection to unorganized crime, but certainly concern moving forward between -- synergies between criminal networks and jihadi networks for these people in their crime and also that terrorist activity. They see this as both being against the so-called Kufar West, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, it's a real worrisome development. Unfortunately, it isn't going away anytime soon.
Guys, thanks very much. That's it for me. Thanks for watching.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
