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Trump Says Biden Is "Falling Like A Rock" After Former VP Calls For Impeachment; Trump Raises Possibility Of Cooperating With Impeachment Probe If GOP Gets "A Fair Shake"; Democrats Plot "New Phase" On Impeachment As Lawmakers Prep New Subpoenas And Abandon Voluntary Interviews; Some House Democrats Push Pelosi To Hold Floor Vote On Opening Impeachment Inquiry; Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-TX) Is Interviewed About Impeachment Inquiry, Marie Yovanovitch, Whistleblower And U.S. Allies; Trump Faces Bipartisan Blowback As U.S. Refuses To Defend Longtime U.S. Allies From Turkish Offensive; ISIS Leader For Jail Break; Dennis Rodman The Answer To The Growing Scuffle Between The NBA And Chinese Government? Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 09, 2019 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news. If the rules are fair. President Trump says he'll go along with the impeachment probe if the rules are fair even as the White House is stonewalling. Democrats say the investigation is heading into a new phase with a flurry of subpoenas as lawmakers give up on voluntary interviews. And some Democrats are urging Nancy Pelosi to put the inquiry to a vote on the House floor.
Biden weighs in. Joe Biden comes out in favor of impeachment for the first time. The former vice president accusing Trump of shooting holes in the constitution and vows to defend himself and his family.
American allies attacked. Turkish forces launch a military offensive on American allies, the Kurds in Syria. Turkey says President Trump knew about the planned attack and some Republicans are blaming him for abandoning a key partner in the fight against Isis. CNN is the only American network on the front lines of this conflict.
And Rodman diplomacy. After a bizarre trip to North Korea, former NBA star Dennis Rodman is looking to reprise his role as America's basketball ambassador. Now Rodman says he can negotiate a ceasefire between the NBA and the Chinese government.
Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Brianna Keilar. You're in "The Situation Room."
We are following multiple breaking stories. House Democrats are plotting a fresh round of subpoenas as the White House plays hard ball on impeachment. But some Democrats want Speaker Nancy Pelosi to hold a full floor vote on formally opening an impeachment inquiry.
President Trump is responding with new attacks on Joe Biden who just endorsed impeachment for the first time. As the President urges Republicans to hold the line on impeachment, some of his GOP allies have come out swinging against his decision to pull U.S. troops from Northern Syria, a move that prompted Turkey to launch a military offensive against the Kurds, long-standing allies of the U.S.
I'll be speaking with Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro of the Foreign Affairs and Intelligence Committees and our correspondents and analysts have been full -- have full coverage for us of today's top stories. Let's begin with CNN Chief White House Correspondent, Jim Acosta.
And Jim, how is President Trump responding to this latest pressure from the Democrats pushing impeachment?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, President Trump just wrapped up his latest rant about being impeached. He is taking aim at Joe Biden. The former vice president is calling on Mr. Trump to be thrown out of office. House Democrats are talking tough after their demands for information from the White House in the impeachment inquiry were rejected by the administration.
The President is not cooperating in any way at this point. He's not committing to any kind of cooperation. Tonight the President has one other mounting crisis on his hands though, as Turkey's invasion of Syria which was green-lighted by Mr. Trump has begun.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): Waging war on Democrats who were out to impeach him, President Trump is sounding all too eager to escalate the constitutional conflict.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Probably ends up being a big Supreme Court case, maybe it goes a long time, I don't know.
ACOSTA: Mr. Trump is firing back at Joe Biden, who for the first time is calling on the President to be impeached over his infamous phone call with the leader of Ukraine.
JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has violated his oath of office, betrayed this nation and committed impeachable acts.
You know, to preserve our constitution, our democracy, our basic integrity, he should be impeached.
ACOSTA: No surprise, the President waited only minutes to respond tweeting, "So pathetic to see Biden calling for my impeachment and I did nothing wrong. Joe's failing campaign gave him in other choice."
TRUMP: My guess he's no longer the front-runner. But, look, I feel badly for him.
ACOSTA: Democrats are up in arms over the President's refusal to cooperate with their impeachment inquiry with some threatening to jail witnesses who don't respond to congressional subpoenas.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, (D) CALIFORNIA: When witnesses come and they simply refuse to answer questions, I think it's time to call in the sergeant-at-arms, march them off to a little jail which we do happen to have in one of the rooms of the Capitol and let them sit there and cool off for a while.
ACOSTA: The President is replying by recycling his old unproven conspiracy theory like his accusation that Barack Obama wiretapped him at Trump Tower. Mr. Trump tweeted, "So why is someone a good or great president if they needed to spy on someone else's campaign in order to win, that didn't work out so well."
The President is adding one notable name to his impeachment team, former GOP Congressman Trey Gowdy who once slammed Obama for withholding information.
REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you're the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something.
[17:05:12]
ACOSTA: But here's one more flash back during the Bill Clinton's impeachment in the late '90s then Republican Congressman Lindsey Graham said failure to comply with congressional demands was a violation straight out of Watergate.
REP. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: It is not your job to tell us what we need. It is your job to comply with the things we need to provide oversight over you. The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day that he was subject to impeachment.
ACOSTA: Graham and other Republicans are outraged over Turkey's invasion of Syria, a strike against Kurdish allies of the U.S. that got a presidential thumbs up from Mr. Trump. The President is now trying to distance himself from Turkey's actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you concerned that Erdogan will try to wipe out the Kurds?
TRUMP: I will wipe out his economy if that happens. I've already done it once.
ACOSTA: The President was also asked whether he was concerned about Isis fighters escaping as a result of the operation.
TRUMP: Well, they're going to be escaping to Europe. That's where they want to go.
ACOSTA: Long-time Trump defenders worry it's an unholy blunder.
PAT ROBERTSON, TELEVANGELIST: And I believe and I want to say this with great solemnity, the President of the United States is in danger of losing the mandate of heaven if he permits this to happen.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ACOSTA: As for whether the White House would cooperate with the impeachment inquiry the President hedge and said that depends, "If Republicans get a fair shake," the President went on to explain why his aides went to great lengths to keep his call with the Ukrainian President under wraps. The President responded that he doesn't want spies in the White House.
The President was also asked whether his abandoning the Kurds will somehow get in the way of the U.S. forming alliances in the future. The President's response to that, alliances are very easy.
Brianna, I think his predecessors would say that is not the case. Brianna.
KEILAR: They would say the opposite.
Jim Acosta, thank you.
ACOSTA: That's right.
KEILAR: Let's get more now on the new impeachment strategy that House Democrats are planning. CNN Congressional Correspondent, Sunlen Serfaty is joining us with details.
Sunlen, what are you hearing on Capitol Hill?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, tonight, Brianna, Democrats are strategizing what exactly their countering -- what exactly their pushback will be from the new pushback from the White House itself. Sources telling CNN that they are now readying to potentially issue many new subpoenas, including potentially Rudy Giuliani's business associates. Potentially the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who as of now is still scheduled to appear up here on Capitol Hill on Friday. But certainly big concerns whether she will be allowed to show up, whether she will show up given that she is still a State Department employee.
And as they do this, new questions are emerging, whether actually is the best strategy to withhold a full House floor vote on to authorize an impeachment inquiry. Of course the White House has been pushing for Democrats to hold that vote. Speaker Pelosi, though, has been adamant, she says that she does not rule it out but she does not think it's necessary under the constitution. But tonight, there are very, very small cracks emerging among Democrats who say, actually, maybe this is the best approach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARAMENDI: First, I do think it is time for us to put a vote on the floor, a resolution for the inquiry structured in such a way that it can move forward with full power of the Congress behind it. I think that's probably going to come in to next week or so. That will further strengthen Congress' hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SERFATY: And certainly those opinions among Democrats will be the thing to watch over the next few days. The Democrats will huddle on a conference call this Friday where they most certainly will discuss the next steps in the impeachment probe. They have mostly all been at home in their districts for the last two weeks in the midst of all of this unfolding on Capitol Hill, so certainly many eager to hear the strategy heading into a big week next week when they all get back to Washington, Brianna.
KEILAR: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you.
And with us is Texas Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro, who is at home in his district. He is a member of the Foreign Affairs and Intelligence Committees and he's joining us from San Antonio. Thank you, sir, for being with us.
REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): Yes, thank you for having me.
KEILAR: Your fellow Democrat, John Garamendi, as you heard says the House should take a formal vote on the impeachment inquiry. Do you think that that's something that should happen very soon, as he does?
CASTRO: Well, I mean, if the speaker said that she's not completely taking it off the table. But it's not essential, it's not required by the constitution and the investigation is well underway. Republicans in the White House have also used this as a distraction to distract from the fact that they have a President who has abused his power. Who asked the Ukrainian President for a favor so that he could benefit politically.
And the scandal has continued to grow and it grew so much so quickly that the White House got to the point where they're trying to put the brakes on it by shutting off Congress's ability to investigate what happened. And so we're going to continue to do that investigation. We may get -- we may decide to actually put it to the floor for a vote. But if Trump thinks that is going to save him, they're close to 230 members of Congress who have said that they support an impeachment inquiry. So, that vote is not going to save Donald Trump.
[17:10:23]
KEILAR: What do you say to these Democrats who are now saying they want one and they want it now?
CASTRO: We'll have a chance to discuss that on Friday. So I look forward to that discussion.
KEILAR: OK. So Democrats are planning to issue more subpoenas than we've seen. It's unlikely, of course, the administration is going to allow you access to many witnesses and documents that they have control over. Without this information, can Democrats still make a convincing case to the American people?
CASTRO: Well, we're going to do everything that we can to get people to voluntarily cooperate. This has been a fair process throughout. So we have a very fair -- a very -- in a very fair way asked people to come forward. But, look, if the White House and Donald Trump try to completely stall this investigation, try to keep it from not happening, well, then we're going to take every legal avenue that we need to to get the information that the Congress needs and that the American people deserve to see. So we'll do everything within our legal rights to do that.
KEILAR: When you don't get the response from these subpoenas or voluntary interviews especially for instance of folks at the State Department, it's clear Democrats are making this case, they can roll that into an article of impeachment for obstruction, do you worry at all that --
CASTRO: Right.
KEILAR: -- the American people are maybe numb to this idea of obstruction? It's hard to think that maybe the case but post-Mueller report it does seem like it doesn't impact people as much as it did. Are you worried they're numb?
CASTRO: Yes, I mean, look, I agree that there's a lot of political speculation that can go on around that question, but that can't distract us from doing our job for the American people and moving forward with this investigation. We have to plow forward.
And if the White House won't cooperate because they're dead set on protecting a corrupt and abusive president, then, we have to take every legal action that we can to get the information that we're entitled to that the American people are entitled to. And if we have to go to the courts and handle this, hopefully expeditiously, then I think that will happen as well, that we will move to enforce these subpoenas.
KEILAR: On Friday, you were scheduled to hear from the former ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch. She was really pushed out after being targeted by Rudy Giuliani. Do you think you're still going to hear from her?
CASTRO: I can't say for sure. I hope so. I mean, in this story that's developed it looks like she was the fall woman, so to speak, that she was cast aside, perhaps because she was more honest and had more integrity than the other cast of characters. So I hope that we're still able to hear from her. But, you know, that remains to be seen.
KEILAR: Are you getting close to the hearing from the whistleblower?
CASTRO: Yes, that's, you know, as Chairman Schiff has said, he's still negotiating and the committee staff is still negotiating that appearance. I'm confident that during the course of this investigation, that of course we'll hear from the whistleblower.
KEILAR: I want to ask you about a different subject which is our other huge story we're following today. Turkey is now bombarding the Kurds in Northern Syria. The Kurds have been allies in the American fight against Isis. The White House put out a statement today saying, "The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea." What's your reaction to that?
CASTRO: You know, President Trump has always had an erratic foreign policy. Really, you could take a high school student who could probably design a better foreign policy than this President has. But he's really taking it to a new shameful level by betraying a core ally, an ally, who on behalf of the United States fought against Isis, has detained Isis fighters, has helped restabilize Syria and to give, basically to give Turkey and Erdogan the green light to go kill the Kurds, an ally of ours, is just shameful.
And you also see two conflicts messages coming out of the White House. On the one hand they're giving the green light for Turkey to go ahead and do this killing and on the other hand you have President Trump saying that if Turkey actually does something to the Kurds that he is going to destroy Turkey's economy. I mean, it's just completely manic. It makes no sense the sentences that are coming out of President Trump's mouth at this point on this piece of foreign policy.
KEILAR: Congressman, thank you so much. Congressman Joaquin Castro joining us. We appreciate it.
CASTRO: Thank you.
KEILAR: Stay with us for more on our breaking news. Former Vice President Joe Biden finally calls for impeachment and President Trump fires back.
Plus House Democrats gear up for more subpoenas as the President raises the possibility of cooperating with their investigation after all.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:19:55]
KEILAR: We're following multiple breaking news including President Trump just now hitting back after former Vice President Joe Biden, for the first time, called for President Trump's impeachment. The President says Biden is, "falling like a rock." We have a lot to discuss with our political and national security experts.
[17:20:13]
Abby Phillip, to you first, with Biden now, for the first time, calling for the President to be impeached, let's discuss this. Let's first take a listen to some of what he said in New Hampshire today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: To preserve our constitution, our democracy, our basic integrity, he should be impeached.
We have to remember that impeachment isn't only, isn't only about what the President has done. It's about the threat the President poses to the nation if allowed to remain in office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Why is it so significant today especially as he is trailed a number of other candidates calling for this, Abby?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly right, Brianna. He's been one of the slower candidates in the Democratic field to come to this point. And I think that is been deliberate. He has not wanted to see like he was rushing to this position even though many others have been very clear that they believe that the President's conduct was impeachable.
But it also reflects Biden's desire, I think, to get ahead of this situation a little bit more to go back on the offense. He's getting hit by millions of dollars in ads from the Trump campaign on this issue of his son Hunter and Ukraine. That is not a sustainable situation. He can't just sit back and allow that to happen.
So some of this speech is about taking Trump on and it's about making it clear to other Democrats that this is not going to be the reason that he is taken out of this race. Trump is not going to -- to going to succeed in that effort. And I think that's a big deal for a lot of Democrats who are worried, frankly, that this an Achilles heel for Joe Biden no matter whether or not the allegations have any basis in truth or not.
KEILAR: Shawn Turner, you are the former director of Communications for U.S. National Intelligence, you're national security analyst here at CNN. It's so interesting to hear Biden's case here because not only does he say that this -- he says it's not only about what the President has done, it's about the threat the President poses to the nation if allowed to remain in office.
SHAWN TURNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. You know, look, I think there is an argument to be made for the idea that the President's behavior does present some unique challenges to national security. Look, you know, there are two key areas here where the President is going to have problems going forward.
You know, from henceforth and forever more whenever the President is dealing with a foreign leader, whenever he's dealing with another nation state, the President's true motivations are going to be called into question not only by those he's dealing with but certainly by, you know, every single American here in this country because we now know that he kind of deals in this kind of transactional foreign policy and transactional national security approach here. So I think that's going to be a real issue for him.
And the President is going to have trouble. If we have a situation where the President actually needs the American people to get on board with him, to deal with a national security threat, then everyone is going to kind of look at that and wonder what his true motivations are.
The other issue that he's got here is that his behavior over the past couple of years has caused the intelligence and national security agencies to alter the way that they engage with the President. I've talked to people who said that when it comes to giving the President intelligence, that these intelligence briefers and intelligence agencies have had to make adjustments to the way that they present information and make adjustments to the way the President received that information so that they can ensure that he actually consumes what's important.
So those sorts of issues that are the President's own doing certainly do make a case for the idea that he's not fully immersed in national security issues enough to be able to make the decisions that he needs to make. And from that perspective, there is a threat to our national security.
KEILAR: The President responded to Biden on Twitter. He said, "So pathetic to see sleepy Joe Biden, who with his son, Hunter, and to the detriment of the American taxpayer, has ripped off at least two countries for millions of dollars, calling for my impeachment, and I did nothing wrong. Joe's failing campaign gave him no other choice."
I know this is a tall ask, Jackie, but fact check that for us. Is there -- we know the answer of this, but tell us why there are -- there is no evidence to support these claims.
JACKIE ALEMANY, AUTHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST "POWER UP": Yes. There are -- I mean, all -- the allegations from the beginning of, you know, Hunter Biden having business -- corrupt business in Ukraine and paying off the prosecutor, we've known to be baseless but that has not stopped the President nor his allies from continuing to perpetuate these baseless allegations that are picking up some steam. "The Washington Post" just did some polling that showed that there are -- there's not a majority but a substantial amount of people who do believe that there has been -- there is some issue of corruption.
And to see voters in town halls asking their representatives. You have the daily feature to town hall with Elissa Slotkin which she had to answer repeated questions for why Joe Biden, you know, had business dealings and if he could be trusted. And repeating some of the White House's talking point that, you know, the President couldn't trust the CIA or the FBI and that's why he had to go to Rudy Giuliani to go to the Ukrainians to then investigate Joe Biden.
But I think what we see here is in line with the hundred plus tweets that we've seen over the last two weeks since the impeachment inquiry has started which is the President grasping for straws in terms of finding some sort of defense and, you know, trying to keep his head above water as public opinion is shifting towards a majority of voters wanting the President to be impeached.
[17:25:32]
KEILAR: Jim, you're a former FBI general counsel, I mean, listening to some of Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin's town hall, to hear that these talking points about you can't trust the FBI or the CIA or something that is really taking hold just as people believe there is -- that there are many -- more people are believing there is a there- there to these Hunter Biden allegations, I mean, what do you -- that must be something you take personally? JIM BAKER, FORMER FBI GENERAL COUNSEL: Absolutely, yes.
KEILAR: Tell me about that.
BAKER: You know, I take it absolutely personally. Obviously I was there and still care deeply by about the FBI and still have confidence in the FBI and in the Intelligence Community. And so, as Americans we need to figure out a way -- the American people need to have confidence in these agencies. And we need to find a way to do that. That's why I've cooperated every time that I've been asked to -- with respect to an investigation or reviews and so on, I've offered my cooperation because the American people need that.
They need to have confidence in that and so does the President. Because the right way to deal with this is not to send, you know, sort of quite frankly amateurs over to try to conduct an intelligence or law enforcement investigations, it's to refer it to the FBI. And let them do it. And let them work with the foreign government. That's what should be happening.
KEILAR: All of you stand by for me. We have so much more news ahead. We'll be back in just a moment.
[17:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:31:41]
KEILAR: We are back now with our political and our national security experts.
And Abby Phillip I want to turn to you because of some the President said today. He says he will cooperate with the impeachment probe if the rules are fair but that contradicts what we have been hearing from the administration.
PHILLIP: It does. They made it clear, the President's aides yesterday when they released the letter that there is no guarantee that if these procedural changes that they are asking for, what they are calling due process rights, the ability to cross-examine witnesses and other things are put into place and if there is a vote on articles of impeachment, if they will actually cooperate.
I mean, that is a key point from yesterday. That begged the question for a lot of people. What would it actually take for the President to cooperate with frankly the House's constitutional right to initiate impeachment proceedings.
So the President often says things like this even when, you know, it is not clear if that is the policy of the White House so it remains to be seen whether this is true. But that is a big point for the White House yesterday. They did not want to commit to any kind of cooperation whatsoever.
KEILAR: Jackie, Democrats are we are learning planning to roll out a flurry of new subpoenas and it is very clear what they are doing here. They are not expecting. They know what is happening. They are not expecting cooperation but the more they are subpoenaing, we are inviting to speak and people do not come up to the hill because it is blocked by the administration, they could see that as obstruction. They roll that into article of impeachment for obstruction.
I just asked Democrat Joaquin Castro, are people immune to this idea of obstruction after the Mueller report? He said they have to move ahead even if so. He kind of didn't really address that so much.
ALEMANY: Yes. And I think that is a top priority of Pelosi and her lieutenants to get this going as quick as possible which means not having the time to wait for courts to litigate these subpoenas.
That being said, I think the White House's decision to halt all cooperation with Congress is a risky bet. And it makes a bet on Trump's odds of impeachment are based on winning the court of public opinion and the control -- the GOP-controlled Senate.
But, you know, because at the end of the day, that eight-page letter which was a political statement more than anything holds no legal muster. There is potentially, you know, no more clear article than article one that said that the House of Representatives, Congress, has the sole power of impeachment.
There is no way to appeal impeachment. And so if eventually the White House just continues to stop cooperating, the public is going to start wondering what are they hiding here. But the next test we will see is ambassador Yovanovitch coming in on Friday. We will see if she is going to testify or not. She is still part of the state department
KEILAR: Jim, what does it tell you that the calculus of the White House is we are better off obstructing here, not complying, than we are letting the truth come out.
BAKER: Well, they are playing -- I think they are playing the game with respect to the Senate. They may have calculated that they are lose in the House already. And they are playing toward the Senate which will be driven at the end of the day by political considerations by the senators with respect to what they think is their constitutional obligation but also what the people want.
And the senators will be the jurors. If the house, in fact, impeaches him, then the senators will be the jurors. The senators will have to make up their minds. So I think he is playing to the true audience which is the people and then trying to affect the senators where they do have a -- a GOP obviously has a majority and that will be significant as they decide his fate in that forum.
[17:35:23] KEILAR: Shawn, do you think obstruction is something that motivates people or do you think that they have been numbed to actually how big of a deal obstruction is?
TURNER: Yes. You know, I think that I would lean toward the idea that people are numb to obstruction. You know, as I talk to people outside of the beltway, now that I'm here in Michigan, you know, one of the things that I continuously hear people say is, OK, I understand people saying that what the President did was inappropriate and that it was wrong, it was unpatriotic but did he break the law? Is it against the law?
And I think that one of the real struggles the Democrats are going to have is they are going to have to lay out for people in really plain language and plane details that there were violations of law. And people are going to have to be able to see those and objectively say that they are -- that they were wrong.
And I would just add that one thing I think here is, you know, the President is going to have to look at this issue with Turkey in relation to how that is gong to play as well because I think that he may lose some of the support he has on impeachment with his Turkey issue.
KEILAR: All right. Thank you all so much. We do appreciate the perspective.
And we have a quick reminder that CNN, partners with the human rights campaign to present a ground-breaking CNN town hall event, Equality in America. So join the 2020 presidential candidates as they discuss issues facing the LGBTQ community in a night of back-to-back town halls. That is tomorrow night starting at 7:30 eastern.
And next, more on the breaking news in the Middle East. CNN is on the ground in northern Syria where Turkey's military offensive are targeting Kurdish forces is spreading chaos and fear among civilians. Standby for a live update.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:41:32]
KEILAR: We are tracking fast-moving developments in the Middle East where Turkey today launched a military offensive in Syria targeting Kurdish fighters who were key U.S. allies in the war against ISIS.
Asked what will happen if captured ISIS fighters are freed because of the offensive, President Trump predicted quote "they are going to escaping to Europe."
I want to bring in CNN Chief International Correspondent, Clarissa Ward, the only journalist on the ground inside of northern Syria.
Tell us what you are seeing and also just respond so what the President said and what that would mean or if it is even true, Clarissa.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well just to start out with what we are seeing. Syrian and Kurdish forces are now saying that Turkish troops are actually crossing the border into Syria. This is now looking like some kind of a ground military incursion.
Earlier on the any day we were seeing chaotic scenes. We arrived at one town called (INAUDIBLE), just after a series of Turkish strikes on that area. Thick, black smoke filled the air. We saw hundreds and hundreds of civilians pouring out of the town carrying their children, often whatever clothes they had on their back, just a couple of suitcases and mattresses. We saw one car strapped to the roof. I saw an elderly woman who was having trouble walking and picked up by a young man and hoisted over his shoulder to safety.
But what we kept hearing over and over from these people were, we are trying to get out. We are trying get to safety. But we don't know where safety is right now.
And that is the real issue here, Brianna. People don't know where is safe and whether anyone in the world is going to do anything to stop this continued Turkish operation and the potential civilian casualties that we will be looking at.
Now to answer your question about President Trump's quote, and I don't know, do you have that --
KEILAR: Yes, we do.
WARD: What he said earlier.
KEILAR: We have the sound bite, Clarissa. So let's listen to what the President said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if some of these ISIS fighters escape and pose a threat elsewhere?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, they are going to be escaping to Europe. That is where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes but Europe didn't want them for months. We could have given them to them. They could have trials. They could have done whatever they wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Clarissa, that is stunning.
WARD: I'm just taking a moment to absorb it, sorry, Brianna. It is a little hard to understand exactly what the President is trying to say here. Presumably placing the blame on Europeans because European nations have not wanted to take back returning ISIS fighters.
But the whole point here, the reason there has been years of fighting against ISIS and the reason that the U.S. has been the sort of guiding force along with their Kurdish allies on the ground is because ISIS don't play by Las Vegas rules. What happens in Syria doesn't stay in Syria. It is exported across borders. It is an ideology. It is dangerous. Not just for Europeans, not just for Syrians and Iraqis, it is dangerous for Americans as well.
And we know all too well because we saw how ISIS killed James Foley, Steven Stoloff (ph), Pete (INAUDIBLE). This isn't just Europe's problem. This is American's problem as well. And it is the Kurdish fighters on the ground who have been helping for years America to try to resolve the problem along with support from European allies.
And the question now, Brianna, is who takes that moral leadership going forward? And who ensures that we do not see a group like ISIS reconstitute and strike again?
KEILAR: And there is a call from ISIS leader for jail breaks. So if that happens, you are talking about thousands upon thousands of ISIS fighters and their associates and family members, what does that look like, Clarissa.
[17:45:020]
WARD: Well, you are talking about 10,000 ISIS fighters in prisons here. Another 2,000 foreign fighters and then somewhere in the region of 50,000 family members of those ISIS fighters. Many of them are incredibly radicalized.
They are being held in prisons that are controlled by Kurdish fighting forces. If those Kurdish fighting forces are now being called to the frontlines as they are to fight against a Turkish military operation, it stands to reason, Brianna, that that is a potentially very dangerous situation.
KEILAR: Sure is. Clarissa Ward in northern Syria. Thank you for that report.
And still ahead, new developments in the war of words between China and the NBA. Would sending Dennis Rodman there make anything better?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:50:59]
KEILAR: Tonight former NBA star Dennis Rodman is once again pitching himself as chief American basketball ambassador.
Brian Todd is following this story for us.
So why does Rodman think that he has the answer to the growing scuffle between the NBA and China government, Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, maybe when you have been throwing your own booze-filled private party with the likes of Kim Jong-un, you think all things are possible.
Dennis Rodman involvement in this has taken this PR fiasco to a new level of preposterousness. And it would be even more laughable if tens of billions of dollars weren't on the line.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): A banner promoting tomorrow's NBA exhibition game in Shanghai between the L.A. Lakers and Brooklyn Nets is taken down. A media event for the game is called off. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today's media availability has been postponed.
Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The convenient has been called off. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody cares.
TODD: An NBA official in the U.S. tells us Thursday's game is still on, but that the media event was postponed simply because of the fluidity of the situation. Fluidity is putting it mildly. President Trump has just weighed in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you OK with the NBA pressuring Hong Kong?
TRUMP: They have to work out their own situation. They know what they are doing.
TODD: Adding to the theater of the absurd tonight, an author via twitter from the uneven eccentric, self-styled NBA ambassador to North Korea ex-all star Dennis Rodman to help mediate the NBA's crisis in China.
DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA ALL-STAR PLAYER: Ambassador Adam Silver, I know a thing or two about diplomacy. Book me a ticket to Shanghai with you, Ambassador Rodman.
BEN GOLLIVER, NATIONAL NBA WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: This is really case of Dennis rodman being a skilled self-promoter, being very good on social media. I don't that think the crisis will be resolved by Dennis Rodman.
TODD: The NBA is not commenting on Rodman's offer. Analysts say it is emblematic of a public perception nightmare that' has only spiraled in the past few days.
SCOTT KENNEDY, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: I think it's gotten far bigger than anyone would have expected. You would think just a couple of words in a tweet issued from Houston wouldn't cause such a strong reaction on the other side of the planet, but the Chinese are extremely sensitive about any issues that touch on their red lines.
TODD: And Daryl Morey, general manager of the Houston Rockets didn't just touch the red line, he dove across it. Morey's weekend tweet in support of the Hong Kong protesters led Chinese state TV to pull NBA pre-season games from its air. Led Chinese retailers to pull NBA merchandise. Led NBA commissioner Adam Silver first to side with China and then to reverse course and say the NBA supports Morey's right to free speech.
Tonight the Chinese government continues to brush back against Silver accusing him and Morey of quote "ulterior motive and arrogance."
Is the NBA's labor of some-30 years building a multibillion dollar relationship with China about to come crashing down over a tweet? GOLLIVER: The size and scope of their relationship is so big that it
is mutually beneficial. I mean, clearly it's in everybody's best interest to sort out this solution. Adam Silver even back in June was saying that he hoped the NBA could be part of basketball diplomacy. This is a huge test for him as commissioner.
TODD: Tonight analysts say it looks like everyone involved botched the response to Morey's tweet including the always calculated relationship in Beijing.
KENNEDY: And the way they did it, they drew more attention to Hong Kong, maybe drew more sympathy to the protesters. That is -- will pay us more cost now. And hopefully everyone will stay in line in the future.
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TODD: Analysts say for the government in Beijing, it doesn't matter as much that more attention has been drawn to Hong Kong, at least for the moment. They say what matters to the government in China is that this incident in their minds was an affront to Chinese dignity, and in those cases, they say, Beijing feels it has to lash out and punish -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Brian Todd, thank you for that report.
Ahead, President Trump said he might go along with the impeachment probe if gets a fair shake.
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[18:00:01] KEILAR: Happening now. Breaking news, going to court. President Trump predicts his battle against impeachment investigators will likely wind up at the Supreme Court.
