Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Interview With Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL); Key Impeachment Testimony; President Trump Compares Impeachment Inquiry To Lynching; Anonymous Administration Official Releasing Anti-Trump Book; U.S. Diplomat Testifies He Was Told Trump Wanted Aid Withheld Until Ukraine Said It Would Investigate Biden; Russia Strikes Deals With Turkey To Jointly Remove Kurdish Forces In Northern Syria As Trump Withdraws U.S. Troops; Putin Strikes Deal With Turkey On Syria As Trump Withdraws U.S. Troops From Region. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 22, 2019 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: This could be a major turning point in the impeachment investigation.
Anonymous warning. After writing a blistering op-ed about the president, an unidentified Trump administration official is coming out with a tell-all book. What new White House secrets might be revealed?
Lynching backlash. After the president likens impeachment to the mob killings of African-Americans, even some Republicans are condemning the comparison. Is he making it more difficult by the day for his party to rally behind him?
And defending Trump. In an exclusive new CNN interview, the Pentagon chief speaks out about the U.S. withdrawal from Northern Syria, this as Russia is filling the void and the top Senate Republican is formally opposing the president's policy.
We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: We're following breaking news on pivotal testimony in the impeachment investigation.
The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine says he was told flat out that President Trump would freeze military aid to that country until it publicly launched investigations that could help his reelection. That included a probe of former Vice President Joe Biden.
In his opening statement obtained by CNN, Bill Taylor cuts to the heart of whether it was a quid pro quo, saying, everything, everything was dependent on those investigations being publicly announced.
Also breaking, an anonymous senior member of the Trump administration is coming out with a new book. The author is the same unidentified official who wrote a scathing "New York Times" op-ed last year, declaring themselves part of the resistance against the president.
This hour, I will talk with Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, who was in the room for today's impeachment testimony. And our correspondents and analysts are also standing by.
First, let's go to CNN Political Correspondent, Sara Murray.
Sara, Democrats are calling today's impeachment testimony disturbing and damning for the president.
SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
And it really is explosive testimony. And Bill Taylor is essentially laying out why he had every reason to believe that money for Ukraine was being withheld as part of a quid pro quo, even if President Trump didn't want to call it that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MURRAY (voice-over): Tonight, a key impeachment witness telling investigators he was told aid to Ukraine would not be released until Ukraine publicly announced the political investigations President Trump was demanding into the Biden family and the 2016 election.
The top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine, Bill Taylor, offered those details in his opening statement obtained by CNN. He explained why he suspected Trump of taking part in a quid pro quo, something the president has denied.
Taylor revealing details of a phone call he had with the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland -- quote -- "During that phone call, Ambassador Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelensky to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election," Taylor said.
"Ambassador Sondland also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukrainian officials to whom he spoke that a White House meeting with President Zelensky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations. In fact, Ambassador Sondland said everything was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance."
Ukraine's involvement in 2016 is a conspiracy that has been proven false. And Burisma is the Ukrainian energy company that hired former Vice President Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): You could hear a pin drop, literally, as the ambassador laid out in his opening statement.
MURRAY: A source familiar with Sondland's testimony said Sondland was only speculating about the political investigations.
Sondland also told Taylor the aid may have been frozen because of corruption generally or because the Europeans weren't giving enough money to Ukraine.
Taylor's testimony fills in the gaps between his text messages with other diplomats over the summer in which Taylor raised alarm over the delay in money for Ukraine.
As the new Ukrainian president was vying for an in-person meeting with President Trump, Taylor texted Sondland: "Are we now saying that security assistance and White House meeting are conditioned on investigations?"
"Call me," Sondland replied.
Taylor sounded the alarm again on September 9: "As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."
Hours later, after speaking with Trump, Sondland replied: "Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The president has been crystal clear, no quid pro quos of any kind."
Taylor's appearance behind closed doors left some Democratic lawmakers rattled.
REP. ANDY LEVIN (D-MI): This is the -- my most disturbing day in Congress so far.
MURRAY: Republicans say they're still waiting to hear from witnesses closer to the whistle-blower who set off the impeachment inquiry.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): These are the people with supposedly the firsthand knowledge who gave the whistle-blower the information that formed the basis of his complaint.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:05:04]
MURRAY: Now, the president has, of course, said publicly there was no quid pro quo.
And, Wolf, this testimony makes clear that's what the president was saying privately too, but he was also privately saying he wanted the Ukrainian president to be in a public box. He wanted him out there making public statements that he was going to pursue these investigations that would have helped Trump politically, and only then was the president willing to move forward with this meeting and with this financial assistance.
That is what is laid out in this...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: They were squeezing him to do a public interview, a TV interview.
MURRAY: Yes. BLITZER: And they mentioned in the statement CNN several times.
Thanks very much, Sara Murray, for that.
Let's go to Capitol Hill right now, where diplomat Bill Taylor has been testifying all day long.
Our Congressional Correspondent, Phil Mattingly, is on the scene for us.
Phil, were there any inconsistencies between Taylor today and previous witnesses?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, sources are saying that that's one of the things that they have picked up over the course of this eight-plus-hour testimony, still ongoing behind closed doors as we speak, is that there were differences between what Ambassador Gordon Sondland and what Bill Taylor laid out about a series of specific events.
There are two specifically that members of both parties have been pointing to in conversations in -- as this testimony is ongoing. One is a July 10 meeting between Ukrainian officials and administration officials, the details of how administration officials perceived that meeting, what Sondland's role in that meeting was, and what NSC, National Security Council, officials, including Ambassador -- then Ambassador John Bolton, took from that meeting.
Another is the crux of the issue of this entire investigation, and that is the issue of the quid pro quo. Ambassador Sondland testified that the president had repeatedly stated that there was no quid pro quo, and more or less left it at, said he tried to assuage the concerns that Ambassador Taylor had laid out in his text messages and phone calls.
What Taylor said differently today is, while he repeated that the president had told Sondland there was no quid pro quo, what the president went on to explain to Sondland, at least as Sondland relayed to Bill Taylor, is that there was, in fact, a quid pro quo, while maybe not by name, that the president did expect something in return, not just for security assistance, but as Sara laid out in her piece, pretty much everything in the U.S.-Ukraine relationship -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Very important stuff.
Phil Mattingly, thank you very much.
And now to that explosive new book that's coming out written by a senior Trump administration official.
Let's go to our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta.
Jim, impeachment investigators aren't the only ones looking to expose the president's secrets.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. And we should point out, in just the last couple of minutes, the White
House has released a statement, the press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, once again, reiterating -- this is in response to the Taylor testimony up on Capitol Hill today -- once again reiterating that, in the view of this White House, the president has done nothing wrong.
But President Trump is also playing the victim today, comparing the impeachment proceedings up on Capitol Hill to a lynching.
And while the White House insists there's nothing wrong with what the president is saying, Republicans and Democrats have been distancing themselves from that comparison.
But the president's tweets are not the only reading material that's on the minds of people around Washington this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): For a president who loathes tell-all books, this one might cause Mr. Trump to hit the roof.
The senior Trump administration official and the writer behind the anonymous op-ed in "The New York Times" last year is now coming out with a book entitled "A Warning" that promises more damaging revelations about the president.
The author's literary agent says the book has been written as an act of conscience and of duty.
Keeping behind closed doors, President Trump is lobbing another distraction from his social media bunker, tweeting: "So, someday, if a Democrat becomes president, and the Republicans win the House, even by a tiny margin, they can impeach the president without due process or fairness or any legal rights. All Republicans must remember what they are witnessing here, a lynching. But we will win."
Aids to the president defended Mr. Trump's comparison of the impeachment proceedings to a lynching, insisting he wasn't conjuring up the painful history of African-Americans being murdered by white mobs in the decades following the Civil War.
HOGAN GIDLEY, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: But the president is not comparing what has happened to him with one of our darkest moments in American history. He's just -- he's just not.
What he's explaining clearly is the way he's been treated by the media since he announced for president.
ACOSTA: Democratic presidential candidates pounced, with Senator Cory Booker tweeting: "Lynching is an act of terror used to uphold white supremacy. Try again."
While some of the president's own party were uncomfortable with the lynching tweet:
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I don't agree with that language. It's pretty simple.
ACOSTA: Others in the GOP hopped on the bandwagon.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): This is a lynching and every sense. This is un-American.
Yes, African-Americans lynched. Other people have been lynched throughout history. What does lynching mean? That a mob grabs you. They don't give you a chance to defend yourself. They don't tell you what happened to you. They just destroy you. That's exactly what's going on in the United States House of Representatives right now.
ACOSTA: The president and his defenders are complaining about the guarded impeachment process, where key witnesses, like the top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, Bill Taylor, testifying behind closed doors.
[18:10:03]
SWALWELL: We want to conduct it in a way that other witnesses don't know what witnesses are going to say, because, otherwise, they could work together and cook up alibis and tailor their testimony.
And the fact that we have been able to keep it so close has protected in some respect against that.
ACOSTA: The president's allies are telling him to accept the likelihood he will be impeached, as a new CNN poll finds 50 percent saying Mr. Trump should be thrown out of office, all part of a steady trend towards supporting impeachment.
Bipartisan outrageous is building over the president's green light for Turkey's invasion of Syria, Russia and Turkey reaching an agreement for patrolling areas of Syria abandoned by the Trump administration. The announcement featuring a meeting between Turkey's president and none other than Russia's Vladimir Putin's.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I'd like to thank them for a very businesslike and open conversation and talks. And all this, of course, has been done on the basis of a good neighborliness and mutual interests.
ACOSTA: Democrats say the president should have seen this coming.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Turkey, Russia, Iran, Syria, the Assad regime are all being empowered by this. When the president is withdrawing, all of these nations are being empowered.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Now, as for the situation in Syria, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, as well as other GOP senators have introduced a resolution opposing the president's green light to Turkey.
That may be too little, too late, as Turkey, a NATO ally, and Russia have now joined forces -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jim Acosta at the White House, thank you.
Joining us now, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. He is a Democrat, serves on both the Intelligence and the Oversight committees, two of the three panels that heard testimony, pivotal testimony today.
Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Absolutely, Wolf.
BLITZER: And, as you know, in his opening statement that has now been released, Taylor writes that Ambassador Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the E.U., told him that President Trump wanted the Ukrainian president, Zelensky, to publicly commit to investigating the Bidens and the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
How explosive -- you were in the room. How explosive was this testimony?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, a couple things, just to set the scene.
Ambassador Taylor is a 50-year career public servant. He's apolitical, and he's a veteran.
He was extremely compelling. And this testimony was extremely important. I know that this opening statement had been leaked. If he's willing to confirm that's what he said today, then it corroborates the most explosive admission to date, which was Mick Mulvaney's statement the other day that there was indeed a quid pro quo involving military assistance and aid to Ukraine with these investigations and an announcement of the investigations that would help Donald Trump politically.
BLITZER: This doesn't line up, apparently, with what you heard from Ambassador Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the E.U.
Will you be calling him back to clarify?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know. That's obviously something that Chairman Adam Schiff would have to direct.
But what we do know right now is that Mr. Taylor offered extremely detailed testimony, especially with regard to his phone calls and text messages, that really illuminate the situation, to an extent that we didn't know up to this point.
BLITZER: In his opening statement -- and it's 15 pages single-spaced -- we have all read it by now -- Taylor really goes after this policy that was being conducted, a separate policy, as opposed to the formal U.S. policy, by the president's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani.
Tell us about that.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, I mean, this is something that has been a common theme, which is that Rudy Giuliani is operating some kind of rogue shadow foreign policy. And what that means is, it's not necessarily in the best interest of
the United States, but it may be in the best interest of his personal legal clients, such as Donald Trump and maybe others.
BLITZER: How much of a game-changer was Ambassador Taylor's testimony today?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I got to tell you, he is probably one of the most credible witnesses I have ever seen.
And he really comes across as somebody who's a true patriot. He is apolitical. I want to state that repeatedly, because he doesn't have a dog in this fight politically. But he came forward, again, at risk of his career, at expense to himself.
He hired his own attorneys, and he flew here from Europe, from Ukraine, to testify today. So he had no incentive but to tell the truth. And I believe that's what he did today.
BLITZER: So, based on his testimony, can you share with us what your committee's next steps might be?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know.
I know that we will continue with the depositions and testimony of various witnesses this week and next week, and review documents as they come in.
But one thing I have to say, Wolf, is that there's just a steady stream of these career public servants who are defying the president's order not to cooperate with our inquiry. And that just goes to show you that there are a lot of good people out there that want to come forward and tell the truth and tell us about any wrongdoing that has occurred.
[18:15:17]
BLITZER: I know you got to go vote, so I'm going to let you go, Congressman Krishnamoorthi.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you so much for joining us.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you, Wolf. Thank you.
BLITZER: All right, so there's more breaking news just ahead on new testimony connecting the dots between the president's demand for a political investigation and his freeze on U.S. aid to Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:31]
BLITZER: We're following the breaking news that strikes a dagger, potentially, into the president's denial of a quid pro quo. The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine testifying today that he was told
U.S. aid to that country depended on whether Ukrainian officials launched formal investigations that could help President Trump's reelection.
Ambassador Bill Taylor revealing that and much more in a very lengthy opening statement to lawmakers obtained by CNN.
Let's bring in our correspondents and our analysts to discuss.
And, Jeffrey Toobin, let me read a portion of Taylor's opening statement.
He writes this: "Ambassador Sondland," the U.S. ambassador to the E.U., "told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelensky," the Ukraine president, "to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma" -- that's the gas and oil company that Hunter Biden was on the board of -- "and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. election."
Then Ambassador Taylor went on to say this -- and I'm quoting -- "Ambassador Sondland said everything was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance. He said that President Trump wanted President Zelensky in a public box by making a public statement about ordering such investigations."
That's clearly, Jeffrey, a quid pro quo.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It's the definition of a quid pro quo.
I mean, security assistance only comes if you give us, give the United States, give the president investigations of Burisma. I mean, it's just so vivid and direct.
And Sondland -- again, we haven't seen his full testimony, just his opening statement -- seemed remarkably clueless about what was going on. He didn't even seem to know what Rudy Giuliani was doing in Ukraine, even though it was in "The New York Times," what Rudy Giuliani was doing in New York -- in Ukraine.
So if there is a contest between Taylor and Sondland, as there appears to be, the political appointee hotel owner from Portland, Oregon, seems to be in a lot worse position than the 50-year honored civil servant and former military officer, Taylor.
BLITZER: We just got a clip, Jeffrey, of Congressman Mark Meadows, a Republican, who was also there.
He denies there was any quid pro quo. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARK MEADOWS (R-NC): I have been in there for 10 hours.
I can assure you, there was no quid pro quo. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He assures us.
TOOBIN: I mean, we all read the statement.
I mean, the statement says there's a quid pro quo. Now, you can argue that he -- that Taylor lied in the statement. But the statement says what it says.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the statement is devastating, OK? It's devastating.
It's pages and pages of recollections from his notes. And we know he was a voluminous notetaker about what occurred and when it occurred. And at the end of his statement, he says that the story is a rancorous story about whistle-blowers, Mr. Giuliani, side channels, quid pro quos, corruption, and interference in elections.
And he says, in this story, Ukraine is an object.
This comes from a career public servant whom Stephanie Grisham referred to as a radical unelected bureaucrat, which he is not. And I might also point out that he was appointed by none other than the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, that this is a person who made it very clear in his opening statement that he saw Ukraine as a matter of life and death.
And he you talked about 13,000 Ukrainians who had been killed at the hands of the Russians. In the meantime, this administration, much to the chagrin of former National Security Adviser Bolton, was playing politics with this much needed aid.
It's very clear.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Clearly, a quid pro quo. Go ahead.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
And just because, in this -- the president saying this isn't a quid pro quo doesn't make it so, that it's not a quid pro quo.
I mean, what is outlined in the statement is clearly that. And this really paints this vivid picture, this 15-page statement, of a situation where you have Rudy Giuliani going through unofficial channels with other administration officials, confusing Ukraine officials, who keep asking people like Bill Taylor, why is the aid withheld?
And he can't even give them a concise answer, because there's so much confusion about this. Bill Taylor being on the verge of resigning, and not even getting a -- he is the head person, Ukraine, the de facto ambassador. He didn't even get a readout of the transcript of the president's call with Zelensky until it was released to the public. [18:25:03]
And, to your point, what he makes clear is that he viewed the aid as a matter of life and death.
BORGER: Exactly.
BROWN: But Sondland tried to say, hey, look, Trump is a businessman, right?
I mean, he told him, according to the statement, when a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, he said: "The businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check."
TOOBIN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: What does Ukraine owe Donald Trump? Yes.
BLITZER: Yes. Go ahead, Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: Yes.
The problem is, Donald Trump is the president of the United States. He's not the owner of -- or he still is the owner of the Trump Organization, but he shouldn't be operating that way.
And the idea that the president of Ukraine owes him an investigation of Joe Biden's son is an obscene dereliction and -- of what a president's duty is supposed to be to the country.
BLITZER: It was not just the aid that was being withheld unless the public statement was made about an investigation into the Bidens. It was also a meeting between Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, and the president of the United States.
I spoke about all of this in the last hour, David, with the Republican Congressman Will Hurd, a former clandestine CIA officer.
Listen to this exchange we had.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Do you believe it would be impeachable, Congressman, impeachable conduct, to withhold $400 million in congressionally authorized and appropriated military funding for Ukraine in return for political dirt on the Bidens?
REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): I think that would reach a level that we should be considering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now, Congressman Hurd is not running for reelection, but what do you make of his response? DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN COMMENTATOR: Right.
Yes, Wolf, I sat right here in this seat either I think last week or the week before and said, I thought, if Democrats got one Republican vote, and only one Republican vote for impeachment, it would be Congressman Hurd.
He didn't go all the way and say it there, but he is sort of laying the groundwork, laying the bread crumbs out there, I think, so that people are prepared if he later decides to vote that way.
Can I just underscore two things Pamela said, Wolf? One, yes, exactly, there is no world in which a president would say on the phone, here's the quid pro quo I want you to do, and then describe it. And yet that's what people like Congressman Meadows want us to believe.
And the second point I just wanted to follow up on Pamela was, look, this idea that the president is a businessman, and therefore everything else that follows, the administration has worn that excuse so thin over the last two-and-a-half years, that you can do anything that a president shouldn't do just because you're a wheeling, dealing businessman.
It's preposterous.
BORGER: Yes, the president believes he can do anything.
And, as Taylor points out in his statement, there were two channels -- and you were referring to this -- the regular and the irregular channel.
The irregular channel happened to have been led by Rudy Giuliani, who was whispering in the president's ear. And the president decided, well, I can do whatever I want, even though -- and let's not forget this -- Congress had appropriated the money.
SWERDLICK: Right.
BORGER: It wasn't the president's money, like in a real estate deal, like in a business deal. This is taxpayer money that had already been appropriated by the Congress.
And the president said, well, I'm going to withhold it unless you -- can you do me a favor, though, as he said in that phone call.
BLITZER: Well, dirt on the Bidens, and then you will get the meeting, you will get the aid, and all of that.
Everybody, stick around.
There's a lot more on all the breaking news right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00] BLITZER: All right. We're back with our experts.
And, Jeffrey Toobin, let me read another sentence from Taylor's opening statement to the committees today.
Ambassador Sondland, that's the U.S. ambassador to the E.U., told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelensky to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and allege Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. election.
Clearly, if you read the entire statement from Ambassador Taylor, it makes it clear that Giuliani and the president were obsessed in getting this kind of quid pro quo, this kind of linkage.
TOOBIN: Obsessed, and it wasn't just one time. I mean, it was repeatedly. And, you know, the story of this opening statement is, is Taylor sort of, you know, wandering around in the dark. He's like, what's going on here? Why can't we get this aid through? Why are they so obsessed this corruption stuff? I mean, it is not a -- it's not like among the people who were involved a secret.
The president and Rudolph Giuliani and Sondland, they wanted this dirt on Joe Biden. That's the only thing they cared about from Ukraine. They didn't care about the Ukrainian people. They didn't care the Ukrainian soldiers who were dying. They didn't care about the strategic interests of the United States. All they wanted was dirt on Joe Biden.
BORGER: And you see this story as it's sort of unraveling before your very eyes in the statement. Taylor took this job reluctantly. He only took this job because he wanted to help Ukraine and he asked Pompeo directly if that was American foreign policy that we wanted to aid Ukraine in its fight against Russia and he was reassured by the secretary of state, yes, it is.
And then as you see this unraveling, there's a piece of his testimony where he talks with Tim Morrison, who was in the White House in the national security arena.
[18:35:01]
And he said, so, basically, what is going on here, has there been a change in policy, and to which Morrison responded, quote, remains to be seen. And that he said during the call that, quote, the president doesn't want to provide any assistance at all.
Now, again, let me reiterate that this assistance had been approved by the Congress.
BLITZER: I suspect that the former national security adviser's testimony, if, in fact, Bolton appears before this committee, that could be a bombshell as well.
BROWN: It could be explosive. I mean, we know from this statement from Fiona Hill's testimony, that he viewed all of this as very bad, saying this is a drug deal, didn't want to be a part of it, he was really angry by it. And it also -- you know, we were just talking about raises sort of the issue of the president having leaving -- having officials leave his administration on bad terms as was the case with Bolton, because now someone like Bolton could resurface and offer testimony that could be very damaging.
Now, we don't know about, you know, efforts to reach out to him, but if he did provide testimony, it could be very hurtful (ph).
BLITZER: The president is getting a lot of grief early this morning. He tweeted this line in one of his tweets about the investigation. All Republicans must remember what they were witnessing here, a lynching.
SWERDLICK: It's an absurd statement, Wolf. Look, a lynching doesn't always involve race, but the common understanding of lynching in the American lexicon is an unjust, extrajudicial murder based on racial hatred. For the president to bring it into that tweet to defend himself against a process that is proceeding legally and according to the Constitution is race-baiting and a fundamental misunderstanding of the process all wrapped into one.
It's really a shame that he makes this -- shame is too weak of a word, but also that Republican senators in the main have not jumped to condemn this. The majority leader did, Senator McConnell. But you have the only -- even the only African-American Republican in the senate, Senator Scott, did basically ratify the president's statement, said, I see what he's saying even though I wouldn't have used that word. It's really kind of a disgrace.
BLITZER: What do you think, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: It's a total disgrace. They all should go to Montgomery, Alabama to where the Equal Justice Initiative has just created the first national memorial to the victims of lynching, thousands of people, almost all of them African-Americans. And, you know, this was an organized, racist, extrajudicial attempt, successful attempt to kill people, to kill people without trials, and it happened all over the country, especially in the south.
And the idea that Donald Trump, this rich white man who was inconvenienced by an impeachment investigation, is analogizing his fate to that of people who died at the hands of these vigilante mobs is disgusting.
BLITZER: In the last hour, I spoke with the only Republican member of the House of Representatives, Congressman Will Hurd, who did say this was -- he's the only African-American Republican in the House of Representatives who did say that this was something that should not have been said. It was inappropriate by the president of the United States, and he complained about that.
BORGER: Well, this is the president again though, he is the victim everywhere, every time. And I agree with everything that has been said about how inappropriate this is. But Donald Trump has to portray himself as the victim in all circumstances. BLITZER: Everybody stick around. There is more breaking news we're following. Russia expanding its presence in Syria right now as the United States pulls out. Defense Secretary Mark Esper talks about that and more in an exclusive interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
BLITZER: Breaking news tonight. Russia strikes a deal with Turkey to help remove Kurdish fighters from Northern Syria as a U.S.-brokered pause in the fighting ends. Vladimir Putin strengthening his influence as President Trump withdraws American troops from the region, and it's raising more red flags for critics of President Trump's decision who fear Putin would be emboldened and the U.S.- allied Kurds would be slaughtered.
Defense Secretary Mark Esper is addressing some of those concerns tonight in an exclusive new interview with CNN's Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL HOST: We see an army captain who's talked to The New York Times and, basically, he said I joined the army to prevent genocide, not to pave the way for it.
We've even seen the head of the Senate Republicans, the Senate majority, that Mitch McConnell write a very, very pointed op-ed in which he said, the combination of the U.S. pullback in the escalating Turkish-Kurdish hostilities is creating a strategic nightmare for our country. Even the five-day ceasefire announced Thursday holds, if it does, events of the past week have set back the United States campaign against the Islamic State and other terrorists.
Unless halted, our retreat, he calls it a retreat, will invite the brutal Assad regime in Syria and its Iran-backers to expand their influence. And we're ignoring Russia's efforts to leverage its increasing dominant position in Syria to amass power and influence throughout Middle East and beyond.
As secretary of defense of the United States, how do you respond to that?
MARK ESPER, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Look, I understand the sentiments of the soldiers on the ground who have fought side by side with the Kurds. The Kurds had been our good partners in defeating ISIS. There's a certain bond that happens in combat when you're with fellow soldiers of any country. As you said, I experienced it during my time here in the Gulf War. I understand that.
But at the end of the day, when you get back up to the 35,000-foot level, the strategic level, we've got to ask ourselves, at the time that President Erdogan decided to cross that border very clearly, that he was going to make that move, I had a responsibility to make sure that our soldiers weren't put in harm's way, trapped between a 1,500- man plus army and SDF forces from the south, and eventually Russians and Syrians.
So I took with the recommendation of the chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, we recommended those troops be withdrawn and, eventually, the rest of the force would be withdrawn.
I think the broader strategic context is this.
[18:45:00]
Look, it's no surprise that President Trump said coming into office as he campaigned that he wanted to bring American soldiers, service members home, as much he can and to end the endless wars, in his words. And so, this is part and parcel of that and it should come at no surprise to anybody.
AMANPOUR: Can I just ask you a personal question, well, a professional question? Were you on the phone call that President Trump had with President Erdogan? Did you know what was being discussed between the two presidents in the hours before the Turks launched their offensive into Syria?
ESPER: Sure, and I listened into the phone call, of course. But my experience with that --
AMANPOUR: So you knew --
ESPER: Well, I --
AMANPOUR: -- what was being discussed?
ESPER: Yes, absolutely. But my experience goes back to when I first came into office in late July. So, two months or so into it. Probably the one issue that dominated my time more than anything else was working with my counterpart, the defense minister of Turkey, trying to build this safe zone, this security mechanism by which we would do joint patrolling with the Turks to keep a buffer zone between Turkey and the SDF.
And we thought it was going well. We established a joint operation center in southern Turkey, doing ground patrols and air patrols. We got the SDF to agree to back up a little bit, and I guess at some point --
AMANPOUR: Right.
ESPER: -- the Turks decided it wasn't moving fast enough, it's not comprehensive enough, whatever (ph) the case may be. But we saw the pressure building despite our efforts and the --
AMANPOUR: The pressure from the Turks?
ESPER: From the Turks, and it was just days before when President Erdogan called President Trump that the minister told me, look, we're going to be coming across. We'll give you a heads up and when Erdogan spoke to President Trump, he confirmed it and notified us that was his intent.
AMANPOUR: So, Mitt Romney, as you know, senator from Utah, what we have done to the Kurds will stand as a bloodstain on the annals of American history. Was there no chance for diplomacy, he asks. Are we so weak and inept diplomatically that Turkey forced the hand o the United States of America? Turkey, he said, and you just said pretty much that that's exactly what happened.
ESPER: Well, look, Turkey is a long standing NATO ally. We're not going to go to war against a NATO ally and certainly not over a cross a -- with regard to a border that we didn't sign up to defend in the first place.
You got to go back to our primary mission, defeat ISIS.
AMANPOUR: Right.
So you had just said that you were doing a good job, and most people thought you were doing a good job.
ESPER: Everybody except the Turks thought we were doing a good job.
AMANPOUR: Right, bizarrely, because you were keeping ISIS down and you were a buffer force there, correct?
ESPER: Right. Well, no, I meant in the context of the Turkish government did not feel --
AMANPOUR: I understand.
ESPER: -- we were doing a good enough or fast enough job with regard of building the safe zone.
AMANPOUR: Right. OK, but strategically, in terms of defeating ISIS, that was a successful buffer zone that had taken, you know, a good five to six years.
ESPER: But, again, that buffer zone is not related to the defeat of ISIS.
AMANPOUR: All right. Fine. They were buffer forces would you say?
ESPER: It was -- it was -- we were trying to build a safe zone between the Turks and the SDF.
AMANPOUR: I understand.
ESPER: OK.
AMANPOUR: But to keep down ISIS, you were doing quite a good job there.
ESPER: Yes, that's right.
AMANPOUR: Fine. The president has said and, of course, within his right and the right
of any president to want to end, quote, endless wars and bring troops home.
ESPER: Sure.
AMANPOUR: But you know again much better than I do that America is full of buffer troops in many parts of the world where wars have ended in order to prevent a reemergence of hostilities.
ESPER: Right.
AMANPOUR: Whether it's between North and South Korea, whether it's in Europe, and now with the revanchist Russia, whether it's elsewhere in the Middle East.
ESPER: And that's one of o the challenges I face as secretary of defense trying to implement our new national defense strategy is how do I reposition our forces to deal with the threats of the coming decades, which is China, number one and Russia, number two.
As I look around the globe, I see our forces tied down in multiple locations. If you step back, you'd see American forces easily in 80, 90 countries around the world. You see we have legal obligations to help defend dozens of countries and we will honor those.
But what I have to do is think about how do I reallocate, reposition my forces and in some cases, substitute them with other countries so that I can free 'em up to deal with China again, our principle strategic competitor in the next few decades.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thanks to CNN's Christiane Amanpour with that interview with Mark Esper.
Just ahead, we'll go live to Russia for more on Putin expanding his clout in the Middle East.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're monitoring the situation right now along Syria's northern border. Russia is expanding its influence there after striking a deal with Turkey just as the U.S.-brokered cease-fire was ending.
Our Senior International Correspondent, Fred Pleitgen is in Sochi, Russia, for us right now. That's where the presidents of Russia and Turkey just met.
Fred, tell us about this new agreement and is it a huge win for Russia?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a massive win for Russia. There's absolutely no doubt. You know, Wolf, I was in that press conference when that deal was
announced. And I was looking at Vladimir Putin and he looked to be extremely happy with himself.
On the one hand, the area of operations, the area of influence that the Russians have in northern Syria is going to expand by a great deal and then Russia's biggest ally in that conflict, the Syrian government, they're also going to take over large part of that area and start controlling those areas as well.
Now, as far as the Turks are concerned, they're not very unhappy either because the area they started invading last week, they're going to be able to keep those and they're going to start joint patrols together with the Russians, and that's where Vladimir Putin is winning again because those joint patrols were things that the Turks used to be conducting with the United States. Now the Russians are taking over that role from a NATO ally of the United States. So, certainly the Russians are extremely happy with what they were able to deal out.
The big losers in this deal, if you look at, you can see it very clearly, are America's former allies, the Kurds. They're going to be forced out of a zone that's about 32 kilometers wide both by the Turks and the Russians, but also by the Syrian government, as well. The Russians even announcing, Wolf, that they're going to have to move more military hardware into Syria because their sphere of influence is growing so big.
They also issued a pretty clear warning to the United States that they want America out of northeastern Syria as fast as possible. And finally, Wolf, the one leader that Vladimir Putin spoke to tonight was none other than Bashar al Assad who himself also said he was extremely pleased with this agreement and thanked Vladimir Putin -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, as he should. Big win for Bashar al Assad.
All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much.
We're going to have much more news in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:59:34]
MATTHEWS: Tonight, Jimmy Carter is recovering from a pelvic fracture after falling in his Planes, Georgia, home. The representative for the 95-year-old former president says he's currently hospitalized, but is in good spirits and is looking forward to returning home.
President Carter had another fall in his home earlier this month, requiring 14 stitches above his eye, yet he was back to building houses with Habitat for Humanity a few days later. We, of course, wish the former president another full and speedy recovery.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
