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Pelosi Snaps When Asked If She Hates Trump; Interview with Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA); Pelosi Asks House Democrats To Proceed With Articles Of Impeachment; Ukrainian Lawmaker Says He Met With Giuliani In Kiev; Biden Calls Iowa Voter a "Damn Liar" After Getting Question About His Son and Ukraine; Satellite Image Shows New Activity at a Dismantled North Korean Test Site as Leaders Exchange Name-calling. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired December 05, 2019 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We're following breaking news. The House of Representatives is now on track to impeach President Trump by Christmas. Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she's directing the Judiciary Committee to draw up articles of impeachment against the President, a move Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff calls a significant milestone.
The growing tension up on Capitol Hill clearly on display as Nancy Pelosi reacted and relay to a reporter who asked her if she hates President Trump and she said don't mess with me.
Let's go straight to Capitol Hill. Our Senior Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is joining us. Manu, Pelosi's announcement truly historic and is clear now that the Democrats are moving very quickly to impeach the President by Christmas.
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Virtually no doubt, the president will get impeached by the House. Ultimately, the question is what those articles of impeachment look like, how many Democrats ultimately vote for the articles of impeachment. And what we're hearing from our sources behind the scenes and the discussions around centering on handful of articles of impeachment, that would include abuse of power also potentially bribery, that would also include obstruction of Congress for defying subpoenas, also discussion about obstruction of justice.
There are indications too today, Wolf, that Democrats maybe hooking beyond just the Ukraine scandal, the President's handling of relations with Ukraine and whether he views his office in his dealings with that country, to also include elements of the Mueller report, evidence that he may have obstructed justice in his efforts to thwarts the investigation into his campaign and into his presidency, all of which will play out in the coming days. But a signal the Democrats are moving very quickly and that they plan to make the case that the President's behavior in office does not fit his office and violates the oath that he took to office.
Now, Nancy Pelosi earlier today made that historic announcement. Said she came to that decision reluctantly, but she claims she had no choice but to go this route.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: Today, I'm asking our chairmen to proceed with articles of impeachment. I commend our committee chairs and our members for their somber approach to actions which I wish the President had not made necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So as a draft those articles of impeachment, there are some key dates coming up in the days ahead including on Friday, a deadline for the White House to respond to the House Judiciary Committee request to ask if they want to participate in the upcoming proceedings. Already that White House has said, it wouldn't participate in past hearing that happens yesterday. But the question is will this participate in the one coming on Monday.
That hearing will include the House Intelligence Committee's counsel, who will present the findings of its two month investigation into Ukraine. Also the House Judiciary Committee counsels also will present, we expect that to also include significant discussion of the Mueller report in that Monday hearing.
Now after that, later in the week, we do expect that's when the articles of impeachment will likely be voted on in the House. Judiciary Committee, once they're formally introduced, that could take over a couple of days in that panel, in the following week, the week of the 16th, that's when the vote on articles of impeachment could actually happen and that would make President Trump just the third president in history to get impeached before the Full Senate would take up a trial in January where there's unlikely enough Republican support to pull him out for office, but that could take obviously some time.
And, Wolf, in the House, there are some Democrats who are opposed to moving forward, two who voted against the moving, formalizing the impeachment inquiry proceedings are signaling. They probably are not going to be on board this time.
One of them, Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey, told me moments ago that the Democrats are going to quote rush to judgment. He said he preferred a censure vote instead. And one Republican senator or congressman who had kept open the option of voting for impeachment signaling he may not because his concern is that this was a rush to judgment, his concern that this was not something they should pursue the firsthand witnesses in court instead of going this route, Wolf. BLITZER: The speaker, Nancy Pelosi, she was publicly outraged, Manu, today, when a reporter asked her whether she hated, hated President Trump. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you hate the President, Madam Speaker?
PELOSI: I don't hate anybody. (INAUDIBLE). I don't hate anybody, not anybody in the world. So don't --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't mocked you.
PELOSI: You did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked the question.
PELOSI: you did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Representative Collins yesterday suggested that the Democrats (INAUDIBLE) because they don't like the --
PELOSI: That has nothing to do with it. Let me just say this. I think the President is a coward when it comes to helping our kids who are afraid of gun violence.
[17:05:02]
I think he is cruel when he doesn't deal with helping our Dreamers, which were we're very proud of. I think he's in denial about the constitution, the climate crisis. However, that's about election. This is about the -- take it up in the election.
This is about the constitution of the United States and the facts that lead to the President's violation of his oath of office. And as a Catholic, I resent you're using the word hate in a sentence that addresses me. I don't hate anyone. I was raised in a way that is full, a heart full of love and always pray for the president. And I still pray for the president.
I pray for the president all the time. So don't mess with me when it comes to words like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Manu, you were there, you were sitting in the front row when she had that exchange with that reporter. Tell us about the reaction, the sense of what we all saw?
RAJU: Yes, I've never seen her that angry and I've asked her some direct questions pointed at -- direct questions. She has scolded me in a number of occasions. I've gotten under her skin but never quite like that.
She was furious at that question and partly because what the Democrats don't like to suggest, and that is personal in any way, they try to make the case that they were forced essentially. The President's actions forced their hand to move forward on impeachment so the notion that it is personal irritated her very clearly.
But Republicans still believe the reason why they're going after the President because they simply don't like him close to there, very clearly irritated that suggestion.
BLITZER: Yes, certainly. All right, Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thank you. The White House meanwhile is blasting the decision to drop articles of impeachment against the President. Let's go to our White House Correspondent Boris Sanchez.
Boris, the White House has been working behind the seas to bolster his defense for the impeachment trial in the Senate. What are you learning?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, with impeachment likely a foregone conclusion in the House, the White House is turning its focus to a trial in the Senate and what that might look like. Officials at the White House have told CNN that they plan now a robust defense of the President and to use the opportunity to bash Democrats and score political points.
The President previewed some of that strategy today on Twitter. Take a look at what he wrote. Arguing that Democrats don't have a case, the President wrote, "Therefore I say if you're going to impeach me, do it now fast, so we can have a fair trial in the Senate, and so that our country can get back to business. We will have Schiff, the Bidens, Pelosi, and many more testify and will reveal for the first time how corrupt our system really is."
Wolf, the President later tweeting that it's a good thing that Republicans have never been more united. Notable considering that the president will lean on Senate Republicans to guide this process in a way that's favorable for the White House if he wants to see that roster of witnesses ultimately testify. That's part of the reason that the White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, members of his staff, members of White House communication staff, have all been meeting with Senate Republicans more and more frequently in recent week, really trying to iron out strategy, even though we've heard from sources that they have some disagreements, including what to do with that whistleblower.
Republican lawmakers are weary of having that whistleblower who launched this entire impeachment investigation with that complaint testify. The president though appears to be confident. Today, he was asked if he believes that impeachment would be a stain on his legacy. Listen to his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried, sir, about the stain impeachment might have on your legacy?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: No, not at all. No, not at all. It's a hoax. It's a hoax. It's a big, fat hoax. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: One more note, Wolf. We've heard from sources that President Trump has struggled to grasp the reality that he would be impeached though he's likely come accept it as you heard there. White House counsel Pat Cipollone has been preparing for what will likely come in January. He's hire dozens of attorneys to prepare for this, Wolf.
BLITZER: Boris Sanchez, thanks very much. An important note to our viewers, Vice President Mike Pence's Chief of Staff, Marc Short, he'll be here in "THE SITUATION ROOM," he'll be joining me live in just a few minutes.
In the meantime, let's get some more reaction right now. Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell is joining us, a member of both the Judiciary and Intelligence Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for coming in.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Of course.
BLITZER: Let me get your quick reaction to Nancy Pelosi, how angry she got to that reporter's question. You spent a lot of time with her behind the scenes, in front of the cameras, what did you think?
SWALWELL: It was an unserious question for a serious leader. And I've seen, you know, Speaker Pelosi not rush to judgment on this. In fact, she's been reluctant and recognized that we have a constitutional duty to act. I thought it was important when she pointed out on issues of, you know, climate change, gun violence, those are for the election.
And she pointed to her bracelet. I don't know if could see but she was wearing a spent shell casings that a mother who lost a son had given her to remember gun violence. So she cares about these issues.
BLITZER: But you've seen that side of her behind closed doors.
SWALWELL: Well, I don't - that reporter I think was out of line. It's out of line for Doug Collins to say that we hate the president. But her point was those are election issues.
[17:10:05]
This is an issue of urgency on impeachment and if we're going to honor our oath to the constitution, we have to act now.
BLITZER: Let's talk about what Nancy Pelosi announced. The historic moment earlier this morning what she said, he House of Representatives has no choice but to proceed with articles of impeachment. Do you already know what those will contain?
SWALWELL: Well, we know what the President's exposure is. We saw powerful uncontradicted evidence during the Intelligence Committee hearings that he used his office, our taxpayer dollars to ask a foreign government to cheat in an election. So that exposes him to abuse of power as it relates to extortion, also the enumerated offense of bribery, but also obstruction of Congress and his unwillingness to communicate any documents to Congress as well as any potentially, you know, obstruction of justice. That's I would say, you know, the exposure and now we have to figure out, you know, what's the best way to explain that to the American people.
BLITZER: There's apparently some serious disagreement among the Democrats about whether articles of impeaching strictly focusing on the Ukraine scandal or also bring in Mueller report. What say you?
SWALWELL: I think we need to keep it focus and keep it simple. Ukraine is an urgent matter and that the President invoking upcoming election. Now what he did Russia shows his pattern of conduct meaning he has priors.
He asked the foreign government in the past to involve itself in an election and he obstructed there. So it should at least inform us on how we talk to the public about what he did with Ukraine. I'll leave it to the speaker to decide if the obstruction of justice will be included.
BLITZER: So the counsels, the lawyers for the House Intelligence Committee will be testifying Monday morning before the House Judiciary Committee on their information, the Republican lawyer and the Democratic lawyer. You'll be able to ask questions, all your colleagues in the Judiciary Committee will be able to ask questions, but do you expect any new information to emerge?
SWALWELL: Well, you'll hear live testimony that, you know, summarizes what we've heard. Also, you know, there were call records that were not presented during the live testimony a few weeks back that kind of put into perspective this smear and clear scheme that the White House was running to get rid of Ambassador Yovanovitch.
BLITZER: So you think the Democratic counsel will talk about all of that?
SWALWELL: Yes.
BLITZER: So that will be relatively, but will you have additional new information you think we'll learn something that we don't know or already know from reading that long report?
SWALWELL: I don't expect us to go outside the report but we will try and bring it down to a local level that people can understand. Meaning that if your local mayor told a police chief, hey, I know you need more money to hire cops, but first I need you to investigate my local political opponent. We all know that would be wrong.
We're going to show that this is actually on a much grander scale. It's a lot of money, asking a foreign government to get involved. And so I think you'll see us trying to make every day Americans understand why this matters.
BLITZER: So the Judiciary Committee presumably will vote on articles of impeachment sometime next week. And then the following week, there will be a debate and the discussion on the floor of the House of Representatives. Do you know already how you're going to vote when it comes to articles of impeachment?
SWALWELL: You know, I'm giving the President a fair process that he would give anyone else in that even though he wants us to actually do this now. I think he should have an opportunity to participate. But, Wolf, if he has documents or witnesses that can clear him, now is the time to do it.
BLITZER: Because the committee gave him, the White House a deadline of tomorrow to let them know whether or not he's going to cooperate.
SWALWELL: And innocent people would come forward and cooperate. And if you're not innocent and you have something to hide in a procedure like this, I think we can conclude that you're not participating because, you know, that can help.
BLITZER: A final question on Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney who's now for some reason it's unclear what's going on. He's back in Kiev in Ukraine and presumably, he's work on what he sees as trying to gathering more evidence against the Bidens. What's your reaction to that?
SWALWELL: There are a lot of questions this week about are we moving too quickly on this. And what I say is no, but, you know, who is moving quickly is the President's lawyer on his behalf going back over to Ukraine to seek evidence to help a foreign government cheat for President Trump in an election and that shows the urgency on our part to act.
Sure, in a perfect world, the President would turn over documents, give us witnesses and say that he divide by court rulings. We don't have a president that's doing that. And so we have to protect and secure the upcoming elections.
BLITZER: Congressman Swalwell, thanks so much for coming in. I know these are going to be very, very busy days for you and all your colleagues.
And to our viewers, stay with us, we'll get insights on the Trump administration's plans to fight impeachment and survive a likely trial in the US Senate. Marc Short, who served in the White House, still serves in the White House. He's currently the vice president, Mike Pence's Chief of Staff. There you see him, he's standing by live. We'll discuss.
And later, Joe Biden lashes out after a question at an Iowa campaign event.
[17:14:44]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: All right, breaking news this hour. The House Speaker Nancy Pelosi asking the judiciary committee in the House to proceed withdrawing up articles of impeachment against President Trump. Joining us now Marc Short, the Chief of Staff to Vice President Mike Pence.
Marc, thanks very much for coming in.
MARC SHORT, CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Former CNN contributor as well. I just want to make sure that we let our viewers know about that.
So the Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she said today that today the Democrats in her words have no choice but to move forward with impeachment because in her words the President's actions have seriously violated the constitution. What do you say?
[17:20:06]
SHORT: Well, I heard her also say ironically that she's doing this in defensive democracy. Wolf, the reality is, if the last three years, they've been trying to overturn the will of the American people. What they're trying to do is actually take away the votes of the American people. This whole impeachment has been a sham. What they've tried to prove, there is no proof of.
The reality is that, they wouldn't allow us to provide counsel present for witnesses in the initial hearings. They wouldn't allow us to present our own witnesses. They wouldn't allow us to see evidence. And so, it's been a sham throughout. It's been a process. They've been trying to do from the very beginning. I don't think it's a surprise but I think it sets a very dangerous precedent.
BLITZER: Well, there's a deadline tomorrow as you know for the House White either, let the House Judiciary Community know yes or no whether the White House wants to participate in a serious way. What's going to be the answer?
SHORT: I think I'll leave that answer to our White House Counsel, Pat Cipollone. But the reality is that, it's almost like showing up for a verdict after they've had a sham process. So I think we look forward to being able to provide evidence where he gets if -- he gets to the time.
BLITZER: Here's what I don't understand. If the President has nothing to hide, it was a perfect phone call with the president of Ukraine and all of that, what's the problem? Why not cooperate, why not provide the documents, why not let individuals go before the committees and testify, what's the problem?
SHORT: Wolf, this whole began with a whistleblower report based upon a phone call. The President gave the transcript for all ...
BLITZER: A rough transcript.
SHORT: Wolf, it's the transcript.
BLITZER: Well, it's the memorandum it says. Memorandum of ...
SHORT: It's the transcript.
BLITZER: ... conversation.
SHORT: You have other people who serve in Intelligence Committees who will tell you that's exactly the way the transcript is always done.
BLITZER: Right. But it's not verbatim necessarily because there's no audio tape presumably.
SHORT: This transcript was provided for all the American people to read.
BLITZER: It's -- but they specially say on page one, this is not a transcript.
SHORT: It has been corroborated by multiple people, Wolf, because their transcripts are produced and they all are saying the same.
BLITZER: Let's say it's precise.
SHORT: We provided that for all the American people to read for themselves. So the notion is like, why not come forward? We provided them with the entire transcript for them to see.
BLITZER: But if there's nothing to hide, why not cooperate, why not let various officials testify and let the documents come forward, what's the big deal?
SHORT: The House Democrats in -- on any way tried to provide a fair process here, Wolf, and they've been looking to have this verdict from the very beginning. As I said, they've been trying to overturn the will of the American people from the very start. And I think it's an extremely dangerous precedent to set for future presidents.
Are you an essence going to say that if we don't like what the American people decided, we're going to have a political trial to overturn that and impeach the president.
BLITZER: In the House Intelligence Community report, the vice president has mentioned 60 times, your boss. And you've refuted some of the suggestions of his involvement. You issued a statement saying the vice president never had a conversation with Gordon Sondland about investigating the Bidens, Burisma or the conditional release of financial aid to Ukraine based upon potential investigations.
Sondland, for his part, as all of us remember, he didn't testify. There was actually a conversation. He said that Pence -- that he told Pence. He told the vice president. The aid was linked to investigations and he said Pence simply nodded.
SHORT: Right. So the show would have fraud this whole investigation has been. The reality is that, what he testified to is he said that there was a pre-briefing before the meeting. That was in a secure environment. I was a part of that. I asked everybody else who was in that and nobody remembers Sondland ever saying such a thing, which is why we believe his allegation is entirely false. But, Wolf, again, the Democrat witnesses who came forward themselves said in every conversation the vice president had, in his meetings he had, he never raised Burisma, he never raised the Bidens, he never raised specific investigations, yet ...
BLITZER: But do you think Sondland was ...
SHORT: ... yet ...
BLITZER: ... you think Sondland is lying?
SHORT: ... yet the Democrat report itself alleges that these are things the president -- the vice president was just fitting and contributed to when their own witnesses said it didn't happen.
BLITZER: Was Sondland lying to Congress?
SHORT: I'm not going to suggest he's lying. I'm saying he's mistaken.
BLITZER: With -- in his testimony?
SHORT: Yes.
BLITZER: Yes, but that -- if you're under oath, that's a serious suggestion.
SHORT: I'm telling you it didn't happen. That's what I said at the time and I still say. Everyone else who was in that meeting said it didn't happen.
BLITZER: What is Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, doing in Ukraine right now? What's up with that?
SHORT: He is the president's personal lawyer and I don't know what Rudy Giuliani does, Wolf.
BLITZER: But is that smart for him to be going over there? He's clearly digging -- trying to dig up more dirt on the Bidens.
SHORT: You know, you say he's digging up dirt. I don't know if that's what the case is. I think that there was ...
BLITZER: He'd made it very clear.
SHORT: I think ...
BLITZER: That's his main goal.
SHORT: ... I think there was a sense that, you know, for a long time, democrats did actually get foreign interference in our elections when they got the Steele dossier and they work before in governments digging up dirt on Donald Trump. When this administration looks to say, hey, you should look into what foreign interference was. All of a sudden, it's like, oh, wait, we no longer have interest on what, foreign interference in our election was. So, you know, to the extent that Rudy Giuliani is looking into that, I don't mind. But I honestly, I don't have, you know, intel as to what Rudy Giuliani (INAUDIBLE) President.
BLITZER: But what about the appearance of him showing up in Ukraine right now in the midst of all of this. Is that smart?
SHORT: Wolf, I think that the appearance that I think America will have is they're wondering, why isn't Congress doing things they should be doing, what's happening to trade deals, what's happening to drug pricing legislation, what's happening to infrastructure legislation.
[17:25:07]
They want to know why is Congress wasting its time on the sham investigation when an election is 11 months off. Why are they trying to ...
BLITZER: But it's happening. There's about to be articles of impeachment against the president. I assume you're not going to cooperate with the House of Representatives. I'm talking about the White House, not you personally. But what about when there's a Senate trial, what's the strategy?
SHORT: I think that you're going to see a very wholesome defense of the president when it gets to the Senate because he believes there will be a fair process there.
BLITZER: And when the President keeps tweeting that if there's a trial in the Senate, he wants, you know, Hunter Biden to testify Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, all these individuals. Is that realistic?
SHORT: I don't know. I mean, I look right now the current situation is, you have documents you've read about the vice president. The vice president's son is currently serving in the United States Marine Corp. When Joe Biden was vice president, I guess his son was earning $50,000 a month, $50,000 a month for a corrupt energy company in Ukraine. It doesn't seem like there's much interest investigating that.
BLITZER: We have another in Beau Biden who was serving in Iraq as well, you know, unfortunately, he passed away.
SHORT: Admirably so.
BLITZER: Yes.
SHORT: Admirably so, Wolf. But, you know, I think that there is a double standard in the way that these investigations are going.
BLITZER: You say nothing is going on. Let's talk a little bit about something that I know you personally are working on the US, Mexico, Canada the trade agreement. Some of the Democrats are now suggesting this might be passed in the House of Representatives by Christmas. What are you hearing because I know you're working hard? You're former legislative director over at the White House. SHORT: We're hopeful it gets passed, Wolf. The reality is that, you know, there's certain estimate from the International Trade Commission of the number of jobs to create. The upper end of those estimates is 500,000 jobs and up to a trillion dollars ...
BLITZER: With the US Embassy that you're talking about?
SHORT: Yes, sir. And so there's a huge opportunity for the American people. This has been -- this was negotiated over a year ago with Mexico and Canada. Congress said, every opportunity to pass before now ...
BLITZER: So what's the major stumbling block that you're hearing from the Democratic leadership right now?
SHORT: I don't think a stumbling block on policy. The reality is that Nancy Pelosi wants to hold a hostage because she wants to keep her moderate Democrats in line to vote on impeachment. So it's an essence of the way. It's her own quid pro quo to say, I need your vote on impeachment. I'll give you a vote that helps you in your district.
BLITZER: But it might pass by Christmas.
SHORT: Well, coincidentally ...
BLITZER: And Steny Hoyer, the majority leader of the House ...
SHORT: ... coincidentally ...
BLITZER: ... says that's possible really.
SHORT: Yes, sure. Well coincidentally, it sounds like there will be an impeachment vote before Christmas too. That's my point as they've been tied together. She's leveraging one against the other.
BLITZER: All right. Well, there's going to be articles of impeachment we assume by Christmas and approval of the USMCA in the House of Representatives by Christmas as well.
SHORT: Let's hope we get the trade deal done.
BLITZER: Marc, thanks for coming in.
SHORT: Sure.
BLITZER: I appreciate it.
SHORT: Thank you.
BLITZER: All right. Stay with us for more on today's historic breaking news. The House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announcing that Democrats will, in fact, move forward on articles of impeachment against the president, will they be based on the Mueller report as well as the president's dealings with Ukraine?
[17:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're counting down to tonight's CNN town hall with the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Today, she announced the House has no choice but to move forward with Articles of Impeachment against the President of the United States. Let's ask our experts and analysts to discuss.
Gloria, this is truly a historic moment.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It truly is and I think Nancy Pelosi treated it as such.
She came up to the lectern, and she was full of solemnity and reverence for the constitution and the democracy in which we live and then tried to make the point that this wasn't about politics but it was above politics. Until she got asked whether she hated Donald Trump and then said to the journalist how dare you even ask that question and went on -- and went on about that.
And she knows what a large step this is and we all know, and she knows, that she wasn't always for this process, but after the Ukraine call was released, she changed her mind. And I think she understands the political peril this may place some Democrats in but felt she had no other choice but then to do this.
BLITZER: Laura Coates, you're a legal analyst. These Articles of Impeachment, what are they going to include?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, based on what you're talking about, Gloria, and actually her -- her statements say, she seemed to be referencing things of the past as well as this 2016 election, which led me to believe that she's probably looking at the obstruction of justice aspect.
Which should be no surprise to anyone, given the fact that there has been stonewalling effort after effort right now to try to evade having Congress have a fruitful and comprehensive investigation. That and, of course, the abuse of power umbrella about having to compromise national security for one's re-election campaign.
BLITZER: You know, she had a rather nasty exchange with a reporter after her news conference earlier today. Let me play this excerpt.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES ROSEN, REPORTER, SINCLAIR BROADCAST GROUP: Do you hate the President, Madam Speaker? Because Representative Collins --
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I don't -- I don't hate anybody.
ROSEN: Representative Collins said --
PELOSI: I don't -- I was raised as a Catholic --
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: We don't hate anybody. Not anybody in the world.
I resent you're using the word "hate" in a sentence that addresses me. I don't hate anyone. I was raised in a way that is full -- a heart full of love and always pray for the President.
And I still pray for the President. I pray for the President all the time. So don't mess with me when it comes to words like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CILLIZZA: OK, a few things. One, it's interesting in that, to Gloria's point, there was clearly an attempt to be very solemn and very above politics to the extent you can be when you're announcing that they're going to move forward on Articles of Impeachment.
[17:35:09]
Two, she's usually very disciplined. She does not usually -- Donald Trump will be like, hey, anybody got any more questions, right? Whereas she, once she starts walking away from the podium, she usually just ignores it.
Three, I think that question was purposely provocative. I mean, I -- you know, I -- you don't say, do you hate the President? That's not really a seeking an honest answer question.
And then the last thing I would say is I think it speaks to -- there is an undercurrent. You saw this with Joe Biden today. There's an undercurrent. There's this frustration and anger that that's just there. It's in the public. I think it's in the politicians.
This is a very difficult, emotional process for everyone involved in it. I think it flares up in moments like this. And unfortunately, unless you like that, which I don't think any of us really do, you're going to see more of it because it's not going to get more friendly.
BLITZER: You know, you've been doing a lot of reporting, Sara, on Rudy Giuliani, the President's personal attorney. He's back now in Ukraine, trying to build some sort of counternarrative to all of what's going on.
He says this, the American people will learn that Biden and other Obama administration officials contributed to the increased level of corruption in Ukraine between 2014 to 2016. This evidence will all be released very soon.
What's going on here?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think what's going on in --
(LAUGHTER) MURRAY: -- in so much as you can ever read into what Rudy Giuliani's
doing, is he's trying clean up the original mess he made by perhaps making an even bigger mess, by going back to Ukraine and also by going to Budapest and talking to a bunch of former prosecutors who have reputations for being essentially corrupt among former officials, among current officials, among experts in that region, and now bringing back a host of information that he, again, wants the American public to trust.
These are the same people who are peddling the conspiracy theories about Joe Biden. The same people who peddled these lies about former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. The same people who are peddling the idea that, no, no, it was Ukraine who meddled in the 2016 election.
So I'm not sure why Rudy Giuliani thinks that the American public should take all of this seriously this time when the last time he got involved in all of this, you know, it put us to the point where we're at now.
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I mean, since when did America's Mayor become like the leading player in a soap opera? I tell you, this is more about fight than facts.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Yes.
MUDD: The -- if you look at facts in the world I used to live in, you might be talking about significant things like North Korea. Like, whatever happened with the Iran nuclear deal? Whatever happened with going after the Saudis for murdering somebody in Turkey? Whatever happened with talking about the wall?
Instead, we get an ongoing drama led by the leading soap opera actor that's going to lead nowhere, sort of like the impeachment process.
I think this is just a diversion because the real story is, if we -- if the Republicans and Democrats wanted to have a serious conversation, the President made a stupid mistake. Maybe we should have censured him if we had a compromise in this country. That's not going to happen, but I -- this is a soap opera that's going nowhere.
BLITZER: All right, everybody, stand by. We have an important reminder for our viewers. The House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will take questions on impeachment, the 2020 election, a lot more in a live CNN town hall moderated by Jake Tapper. That's later tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN. We'll be right back.
[17:38:21]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're back with our experts and our analysts.
And, Gloria, listen to this extraordinary moment that the former Vice President Joe Biden had out there today on the campaign trail. Listen to this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all know Trump has been messing around in the Ukraine over there, holding their foreign aid for -- for them to come up saying they're going to investigate you. We know all about that crap. And he's -- he's no backbone, we know that for that.
But you, on the other hand, sent your son over there to get a job and work for a gas company that he had no experience with gas or nothing in order to get access for the -- to -- for the President. So you're -- you're selling access to the President just like he was.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're a damn liar, man. That's not true. And no one has ever said that. No one has proved that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hell it ain't. I see it on the T.V.
BIDEN: You've seen it on the T.V.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all I got to do, is watch it.
BIDEN: No, I do you do. By the way, that's why you're -- I'm not sedentary. I don't -- I get up and -- no, let -- let -- let him go. Let him go.
Look, the reason I'm running is because I've been around a long time and I know more than most people know and I can get things done. That's why I'm running.
If you want to check my shape on, let's do push-ups together, OK? Let's do -- let's run. Let's do whatever you want to do.
(APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: No, I'm serious. No one has said my son has done anything wrong. And I did not, on any occasion, and no one has ever said it. Not once --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't say you were doing anything wrong.
BIDEN: You said I set up my son to work in an oil company. Isn't that what you said? Get your words straight, Jack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what I hear on the -- on MSNBC, on --
BIDEN: You don't hear that on MSNBC.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hell I didn't.
BIDEN: You did not hear that at all. What you heard -- look, OK, I'm not going to get in an argument with you, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don't want to either.
BIDEN: Oh, yes, you do. But, look -- look, here's the deal. Here's the deal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks -- it looks like you don't have any more backbone than Trump does.
[17:45:01]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, let the guy talk. Let him talk.
BIDEN: Any other questions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, all right. I'm not voting for you.
BIDEN: Well, I knew you weren't, man. You think I'd thought you'd stand up and vote for me? You're too old to vote for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you think?
BORGER: Well, that's a Joe Biden we don't see. Tempers are short. Joe Biden's son was attacked and Biden was attacked. He was -- he said you sent your son over there and got him a job with a Ukrainian oil company and that you sold access to the President. And all of that, as we know, is, to use Biden's word, malarkey and garbage.
But I think Biden to attack the questioner that way shows a lack of discipline that I think he needs to have. I think people, supporters of his, people who might vote for him, would rather see that anger directed toward Donald Trump than somebody in the audience. It's not a great picture.
CILLIZZA: Yes.
BORGER: But the passion is something that I think his supporters feel have been missing from his campaign. He just has to channel it somewhere else.
CILLIZZA: He takes the Hunter Biden stuff extremely personally. Understandably, it's his son, but almost too personally there. Honestly, I think the questioner gives him a little bit of an out.
The question, I think, Joe Biden's going to have to find an answer for is this: your son was on the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company. I'm not saying he did anything wrong, but he got paid $50,000 a month for that job. What were his qualification for that, other than that his last name was Biden?
MURRAY: And your son has admitted that it was poor judgment to take that job.
CILLIZZA: To do it, correct. Yes. MURRAY: Nobody has found that anyone in the Biden family did anything
illegal. But if Hunter Biden can say, I expressed poor judgment, Joe Biden should have a better answer than that.
BLITZER: Everybody, stand -- everybody, stand by. There's more breaking news coming in to THE SITUATION ROOM. New satellite image reveals activity at a previously dismantled North Korean test site.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:51:49]
BLITZER: Breaking news, a new satellite image reveals activity in a previously dismantled North Korean test site for powerful rocket engines. Also today, North Korea complained about President Trump, once again calling Kim Jong-un "Rocket Man." CNN's Brian Todd has more on the increasing tensions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korea's Supreme Leader sending signals tonight that he could be gearing up for a major move. Kim Jong-un is photographed on a white stallion galloping on the revered Mount Paektu. His wife, Ri Sol-ju, accompanies him to a snow-banked stream. They sit with comrades at a campfire.
North Korean propaganda has made dubious claims that Kim's father was born on this mountain, that his grandfather led the resistance against the Japanese there. But analysts say what is true is that Kim often goes to Mount Paektu when he's about to make an important decision.
MICHAEL MADDEN, AUTHOR AND EDITOR, NORTH KOREA LEADERSHIP WATCH: He goes up there to deliberate. There's no distractions. I mean, we could look at this as the equivalent of a president that goes up to Camp David to confer with his aides and advisors.
TODD (voice-over): Other signs of a buildup to something big? Kim's regime has scheduled a rare large-scale Workers' Party meeting in late December. His new year's state address, often an occasion for a major announcement, is right after that.
And for the past couple of months, North Korea has issued a string of threatening statements toward the U.S. and launched a series of short- range projectiles, analysts say, just to intimidate.
One threat coming this week from one of Kim's top diplomats, demanding U.S. action on nuclear weapons talks by the end of the year or else. Dismissing the talks, so far, as nothing but a foolish trick hatched to influence the U.S. elections, saying it is entirely up to the U.S. what Christmas gift it will select to get.
What sort of gift could the dictator be threatening to send?
FRANK JANNUZI, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, THE MAUREEN AND MIKE MANSFIELD FOUNDATION: They're implying that they may resort to nuclear testing and long-range missile testing again.
TODD (voice-over): President Trump has made light of the provocations.
TRUMP: You know, he likes sending rockets up, doesn't he? That's why I call him Rocket Man.
I have confidence in him. I like him, he likes me. We have a good relationship. We'll see. We'll see what happens.
TODD (voice-over): Some analysts are fed up with the recent North Korean threats and warned the President that continually brushing them off comes at a price.
JANNUZI: The United States should not put itself in the position of being blackmailed by a small power like North Korea. So I worry that President Trump, out of some feeling of desperation, might cut a bad deal with North Korea, providing sanctions relief in exchange for worthless concessions on denuclearization.
TODD (voice-over): Analysts say, at the moment, Trump may need a nuclear deal with North Korea more than Kim Jong-un does and that the dictator, who they say closely watches American newscasts, senses Trump's political vulnerabilities at home.
CHRISTOPHER STEINITZ, RESEARCH SCIENTIST, CNA: He knows that Donald Trump is going into a difficult election cycle, and he also knows that he has the power to make that more difficult for Trump.
TODD (on camera): Adding to the concern over the diplomatic tension, President Trump said South Korea is willing to pay hundreds of millions of dollars more to share the cost of defending South Korea.
[17:54:59]
A South Korean diplomat told CNN Trump's comments startled their side and reiterated that the negotiations over that cost-sharing are still going on.
Analysts say that difference in the narrative between the U.S. and South Korea is going to appeal to Kim Jong-un, who's always eager to drive a wedge between the U.S. and South Korea.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Up next, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi orders articles to be drawn up against President Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
