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The Situation Room
CDC Director Warning About Possible Second Wave Of Infections This Winter; White House Holds Coronavirus Task Force Briefing; Three Southern States Are Moving Forward Rapidly With Controversial Reopening Plans. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired April 21, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The president has asked me to work with the secretary of energy. Obviously, the energy business is very important to us. This has national security issues, but different.
And we look forward to looking at what existing capabilities we have. And that will be something we may need to go back to Congress and get additional funding for.
QUESTION: Similar to the airplane -- or airline bailout at all, or --
(CROSSTALK)
MNUCHIN: -- completely different situation.
I mean, what you have with airlines is, we had a very, very good airline industry. Because of the virus, they basically shut down. We have a situation now with the oil business, partially because of the virus, OK, for less demand, but partially also because of too much supply.
But the president is determined. We want to maintain our energy independence. And the president has asked me to look at all of our options, and we're doing that.
Obviously, it's a pretty extraordinary situation, where you saw the front month of oil futures trade negative.
QUESTION: Hi.
On the issue of the fourth stimulus bill and aid to state and local governments, any thoughts on whether that money should be proportionate to the rate of infection in states, so that harder-hit states...
MNUCHIN: Way -- way -- interesting, but way too early to consider that.
Whatever we do, we will do on a bipartisan basis. The president has listened to the governors. I have had the opportunity to be on multiple videoconference calls with the president and the vice president. We're reaching out to a lot of people.
There's a lot of states that have been impacted, but way too early to figure out that level of design.
QUESTION: You mentioned, if a large company applies for one of these loans, and they -- manipulates or works the system or works the loopholes to get it, what are some of the consequences to a -- if a large company tries to get one of these PPP loans? What can you do?
MNUCHIN: Well, you used the word manipulate. I'm going give people the benefit of the doubt.
Again, we're going put up very clear guidance, so that people understand what the certification, what it means if you're a big company. Again, there is a provision for, where there are -- are multiple affiliates, that people can access this.
But the intent was not for companies that have access to plenty of liquidity and other sources. And, again, to the extent these companies didn't understand this and they repay the loans, that will be OK. And, if not, there will be potentially other consequences.
QUESTION: Can you talk about what those consequences could be?
MNUCHIN: Again, you can look at the certifications. They're -- they're quite significant.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Do you have an estimate how many jobs have been saved with all of the money that has gone out in PPP so far?
MNUCHIN: Well, I can tell you that PPP so far is over 30 million jobs.
And, again, that doesn't account for other money that we have sent out. And, again, we're very pleased the direct deposits have gone out. We started sending out the checks. We're also going to be supplementing our capability and sending prepaid debit cards, so we can get money out quickly to people.
So, everything that the president has had us working on is providing significant stability in the economy while we're dealing with this difficult time, when, for medical reasons, we have closed down major parts of the economy.
Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
MNUCHIN: Thank you, Mr. President.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you, Steve.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, we're going to continue to monitor the White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing.
We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We're also continuing at this point to follow up on breaking news, the CDC director now warning about a possible second wave of infections this winter, telling "The Washington Post" it could be even deadlier than what we're experiencing right now, very disturbing news from Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Also breaking right now, the New York governor, Andrew Cuomo, saying he had what he calls productive talks with President Trump at the White House just a little while ago, focusing in on the coronavirus issue of testing and the need for more federal funding for his state.
Tonight, as the U.S. death toll nears 44,000, three Southern states are moving forward rapidly with controversial reopening plans, even though they don't meet the Trump administration's own guidelines for social distancing.
And a new study finds that the anti-malaria drug touted by President Trump as a coronavirus treatment is not effective for COVID-19 patients and actually was associated with a higher death rate.
Let's start our coverage this hour with our national correspondent, Erica Hill. She's in New York.
Erica, federal health officials are bracing for a possible second wave of coronavirus that potentially could be even worse than what we're going through now.
ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right.
The CDC director, Dr. Robert Redfield, telling "The Washington Post" that he fears the assault that could come in the winter, the assault -- his words -- could be even worse, that it could be even more difficult than the one we just went through.
And he said, "When I have said this to others, they kind of put their head back. They don't understand what I mean."
[18:05:00]
Obviously, that is concerning on a number of levels, that people would not understand why Dr. Redfield is concerned.
He went on to say part of that concern on his end is because he sees a second wave in the winter coinciding with the regular flu season. He also went on to talk about concerns over hospitals, supplies, a lot of the things that we have been reporting on now for weeks, actually months at this point, issues that states have been dealing with.
And these are issues that are coming up again, as we're seeing some states reopen, states which, we should point out, have not met those simple guidelines that the president put out in terms of moving into phase one. A lot of focus on Georgia, Tennessee and South Carolina.
Georgia, of course, the governor there, Brian Kemp, saying that certain businesses can reopen on Friday. They will be subject to certain rules, that they should maintain social distancing, should take the temperature of their employees.
But these are businesses, Wolf, where it is very difficult to maintain a six-foot distance. Certainly, if you're getting your hair done, your nails done, getting a massage, those are some of the businesses.
Meantime, in South Carolina, the governor there opening some retail stores, including furniture stores and some beaches, although local communities, coastal communities, have pushed back on that and said that they're not going to reopen their beaches, in some cases, to non- residents.
It's also interesting that we heard from Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who said he was comfortable with his own governor, but is concerned about Georgia, thinks they're moving a little too quickly, especially since it's the state next door -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Very interesting, indeed.
All right, Erica Hill in New York for us, thank you for that update.
I want to go to our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, right now.
Jim, the president has been eager, like all of us, for the economy to reopen, but the CDC director is now warning potentially a second deadly wave of infections may be coming this winter. What's the latest on that?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
And it's particularly alarming because, as the CDC director, Dr. Robert Redfield, is saying in this interview with "The Washington Post," the coronavirus outbreak could hit the U.S. in a second wave, and along with the normal flu and cold season that comes during the fall and winter months.
And it might pose something of a double whammy and assault the country, to use the words of the CDC director. And that is obviously going to be a very alarming news for the White House. We will see if the president takes a question on this during the Coronavirus Task Force briefing.
I will tell you, we have learned in just the last several minutes that Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the top doctors on that task force, is not going to be at the briefing this evening. Presumably, Dr. Fauci could have fielded that question, but he's not here, hasn't been at the briefing at the White House since last week.
But, Wolf, no question about it, this raises a whole host of questions. Erica Hill just talked about a number of them. And that is, what does that mean for these states that are rushing ahead with these plans to reopen their states, these governors who want to move ahead even of the administration's own guidelines to reopen their businesses? The question I think has to be asked, Wolf, what are those states going to do if we have this sort of double whammy with the coronavirus wreaking havoc, along with the cold and flu season, causing problems for hospital workers, for Americans across the country?
I will tell you, Wolf, one governor who was here just a short while ago, Governor Andrew Cuomo, he just left the White House after meeting with the president in the Oval Office. The two leaders talked about testing issues. They have clashed over that, as you know, in recent days.
They also talked about aid to the states. Governor Cuomo obviously is not going to be fully satisfied with what came out of the Hill earlier today, as the Senate passed that coronavirus relief bill, a half- trillion dollars, most of it for small businesses, hospitals, some money for testing.
But, Wolf, as you know, Governor Cuomo, other governors and mayors across the country have been saying, they have been warning the country that their states and municipalities are running out of money or have run out of money because of the response to this pandemic -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thanks for the latest, Jim Acosta, at the White House. We will get back to you shortly.
But, right now, I want to go to the Mayor of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, Brenda Bethune.
Mayor Bethune, thank you so much for joining us. I know you have got a lot going on over there.
The breaking news we're following -- and I want your reaction -- the CDC director, Robert Redfield, now saying that a second wave of the coronavirus this coming winter likely will be even more deadly than the current outbreak.
How are you bracing for that, while also fighting the current infections?
BRENDA BETHUNE, MAYOR OF MYRTLE BEACH, SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, that's exactly what we're worried about, Wolf, in Myrtle Beach, particularly, because we thrive on tourism.
It is our only industry here. And we have over 18 to 20 million visitors a year to the Grand Strand area. So, not only can we not afford to have a second wave of this, but we also cannot afford to have another peak later this summer, during that peak season.
BLITZER: Yes, it's a pretty serious situation.
And this very dire warning from the CDC director comes as your state's governor, Mayor, Henry McMaster, he's just lifted a statewide restriction on beaches.
[18:10:07] And you say your city is dependent on tourism, dependent on those beaches. How is your city going to be keeping beach access and parking closed?
You -- I understand you're not going to open up the beaches and the parking, right?
BETHUNE: Exactly.
We are not going to open up those beach accesses yet. We do think that it's too early for us.
And we respect what Governor McMaster did. I thought that he was very insightful to give the authority to the local municipalities.
And I actually had an opportunity to speak with him this past Saturday about his plans. So, we appreciate the fact that he is letting us decide for ourselves.
BLITZER: All right, Mayor, I just want to apologize. Stand by.
I want to go to the White House briefing.
Dr. Deborah Birx, the coordinator for the coronavirus response team, is speaking right now. I want to hear what she has to say.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: And, really, we do start to see improvement there. And we see improvement even now in Rhode Island and Connecticut.
The Detroit metro is doing quite well, with significant declines now. New Orleans is nearly back to their baseline of where they started for new infections. We also are seeing improvements in Chicago and Boston. And that has been a great concern for us over the last several weeks, but they appear now to be flattening, both.
Also, Philadelphia and Houston, Atlanta, Nashville, Baltimore, Indianapolis, and Saint Louis also appear to be flattening. The D.C. metro area, we don't see a decline yet. So, and, hopefully, all of you are still social distancing and doing everything that you can.
I wanted to remind everybody of two points. When we brought up and the president brought out the guidelines for opening up America again, it was very clear to use data and to really work together to mitigate against any resurgence, and also, critically, to protect the vulnerable.
And what we're seeing across rural America and in some of the smaller- population states is, we're still seeing outbreaks in long-term care facilities. And we asked everyone in phase one to make sure that they continued their social distancing in public to ensure that the vulnerable with comorbidities and other conditions and among the elderly were staying at home, and making sure we were still providing service to them. But, as individual Americans, as we begin to open up, we also made it
very clear that individual Americans need to continue all of their hygiene pieces, ensuring social distancing, washing hands, not touching their face, and making sure that they're not bringing the virus home to vulnerable individuals within the household.
And, remember, those were to continue through all three phases, and so really want to call people's attention again to the guidelines. We are continuing to see outbreaks in nursing homes and in confined spaces. And I think, as Americans, we want to stop that. And we have the ability to do that by really paying attention to the guidelines that were to be in all three phases.
And so I'm calling on the states again to note that an informed community and knowledgeable community is a protected community. So, make sure all of your states have your cases visible to the communities, so they can make decisions and understand where the virus is in their community and understand how to tackle it with their state and local governments.
This will be absolutely critical. And the surveillance that we called for to find asymptomatics before people get sick, as an early warning signal, we ask for those to be in the federal clinics, in our inner city, more vulnerable areas, among indigenous populations, and, of course, in our long-term care facilities and prisons.
We really want to support state and local governments to move forward on these critical monitoring to protect individuals that may be in the most critically vulnerable states.
We will continue to see mortality and deaths among our American citizens, particularly in the cities, as they begin to move past peak, because deaths will lag. And so we really need to continue to unite and really, really, really support our health care providers who are still on the front lines.
They have been on the front lines now for weeks and weeks and weeks. And so, no matter what city they have been in, they have not seen the relief that we have been able to talk about at the light at the end of the table because of the delay in hospitalizations and deaths.
So, to our health care providers, to our respiratory therapists, and to everyone in the labs, thank you for the work that you're doing to protect Americans and give us one of the lowest mortality rates in the entire world.
Thank you.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
[18:15:02]
DR. STEPHEN HAHN, COMMISSIONER, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: Thank you, Mr. President. And I just want to echo what Dr. Birx said.
Just a few -- few short months ago, I was one of the doctors on the front lines, and I know how terrific they're working and how well they're doing for the American people. And I shout out to them for just the wonderful that they -- that they do every day.
So, President Trump asked the FDA to remove all unnecessary barriers that were in place to help with the development of both diagnostics and therapeutics. And we have done that.
I'm here to give you an update on FDA's efforts around serologic tests, which, as you know, are antibody tests, which detect in the blood the natural immunity that someone might develop in response to an infection, in this case, COVID-19.
These aren't diagnostic tests, but these are tests that actually detect the antibody, so an indication that one has had the infection and has responded.
And I think it's important for everyone to understand that the timing of the response of the antibody to the infection isn't completely known, but we know that it takes some time to actually develop that.
And there's two types of antibody responses that can be detected. And the antibody tests are just one piece of the larger response that you have heard in the America returning to work plan that the president has -- with the task force, has developed.
And this pandemic is truly unprecedented in nature. And you will see reports around the world of different antibody tests that have been used. And I think that's a reflection of the fact that we're just learning to -- and beginning to understand what that response looks like.
And many of these tests have different characteristics that allow to detect at different points in the infection.
I do want to address one issue that we are laser-focused on at FDA. And that is, in an effort to provide laboratories and health care providers the early access to tests, we issued a policy earlier in March that allowed test developers the opportunity to quickly get their tests to market and address the needs of the nation as posed by the epidemic.
In March, we provided the ability to manufacturers. And here's what we required of them. The manufacturers had to validate their tests. We call it self-validation, similar to what many test developers in the world have done.
They had to notify FDA that they had performed that validation. And then they had to label their products appropriately in the package insert with information about the validation, as well as the fact that it's not a diagnostic test, that it's an antibody test.
And the bottom line here is that the FDA still expects manufacturers and test developers to validate their antibody tests even under this revised policy.
Now, we have done a couple of things to actually help end users, to help laboratories, providers, et cetera, states in terms of their use of these antibody tests.
One is that we're working with CDC and NCI to actually validate some of the more than some 90 manufacturers who have notified us that they have brought their tests to market, to do an independent validation. And that process is going. We expect you will hear more information this week about that. And we will provide that information in a transparent manner.
And we also want to go after anyone who is auth -- who is saying that the test has been authorized or has been approved by the FDA, but actually hasn't. And we have authorized four applications for antibody tests, and 140 test developers are pursuing applications for us as we speak.
So, it's not OK for someone to say that a test has been authorized or approved by FDA when it hasn't. And we're pursuing them, both by -- in direct contact with the manufacturers, but also at the border.
And so we have increased these interdiction efforts, and we will continue to outreach and do that with the manufacturers to make sure that we provide the most up-to-date information to the end use of these products.
And we will continue to make all of our efforts, both in the diagnostics and the therapeutics, to help America open up again.
Thank you, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
QUESTION: Dr. Hahn?
TRUMP: Please, go ahead.
QUESTION: Dr. Hahn, you're speaking of 140 different developers, more than 90 manufacturers.
How many of these tests actually work?
HAHN: So, as I mentioned, the 90 that have come forward and said they're marketing in the U.S., they are required by us to have self- validation. And they're required to label that appropriately in their package insert.
And I also said that we're -- what we're doing is, we're working with folks around the country, but here at home, the U.S. government, with the NCI and CDC, to validate some of those tests that have come forward to us.
So we're actually doing independent validation.
QUESTION: And what have you found so far? HAHN: So, we don't have those results yet. I expect to have more
results this week. But we will be transparent about those results, because we think it's very important.
And -- and your question is superb, in that, if someone wants to use a test that's come to market, really, it's important to read the information that's in the package insert, but, often, in some of those cases, it's often important for the independent labs to do the validation also.
And you may have seen reports in the press of labs around the country that have done that. We have actually reached out to them, many academics, and we will be including that information in the information that we generate as well to provide to the American people.
(CROSSTALK)
[18:20:05]
QUESTION: While we have you here, there was a study out of the VA today on hydroxychloroquine that found a higher mortality rate compared to those who got standard of care.
And I know this isn't a large-scale clinical trial, but since this drug is out there, and people are using it, can you give some takeaways from that study? Have -- did that change your thinking at all on the hydroxychloroquine?
HAHN: So, this study is a small retrospective study at the VA.
And similar to the data we talked about before with the French study, this is something that a doctor would need to consider as part of a decision in writing prescription for hydroxychloroquine.
And, as I have mentioned at this podium and in other venues before, what -- what FDA is going require is data from clinical trials, randomized clinical trials, hydroxychloroquine, placebo, to actually make a definitive decision around safety and efficacy.
But the preliminary data are helpful to providers. And doctors, I want to ask them to incorporate the data as we have it come forward. And it's not definitive data. It doesn't help us make a decision from a regulatory point of view. But doctors should incorporate that in the decision-making they make on a one-on-one basis.
QUESTION: And just the timeline on the clinical trials and when we will be getting a readout of that data?
HAHN: So, the good news is, we have over 30 clinical trials.
Now, the settings are very different. They're in the outpatient setting. They're in the inpatient setting and, also, I think, very importantly, in what we call the post-exposure prophylaxis, meaning, if you're a health care worker or front-line provider, and you have been exposed to the virus, take the drug for a period of time to see if you can prevent the development of illness related to the virus.
So, all those trials are in progress, and it will probably be early summer before we get a readout.
QUESTION: And, Mr. President, if I can pick up on that...
TRUMP: And all of these tests, I want to say, are in addition to the tests that we already have.
And we have tested more people than anybody anywhere in the world, by far, by very far.
QUESTION: Mr. President, if I can...
TRUMP: Bret, do you have a question?
QUESTION: Well, I think...
QUESTION: You wanted to follow up on the hydroxychloroquine...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Yes, the hydroxychloroquine.
I'm wondering if you're concerned. This VA study showed that, actually, more people died that used the drug that didn't. And I'm wondering if Governor Cuomo brought you back any results...
TRUMP: No, we didn't discuss it. And I don't know of the report.
Obviously, there have been some very good reports. And perhaps this one's not a good report. But we will be looking at it. We will have a comment on it at some...
QUESTION: And a panel of experts at the NIH is actually now recommending against the use of hydroxychloroquine in combination with Z-Pak, which is something you have been recommending.
TRUMP: OK. Well, we will take a look at that. I'm always willing to take a look.
Bret?
QUESTION: Another subject.
Your signing of the executive order, when do you plan to do that?
TRUMP: The executive order will be -- it's being written now, as we speak. Probably tomorrow sometime.
QUESTION: So, will it have exemptions in there for certain...
TRUMP: It will have certain exemptions, because you're going to need certain exemptions, but we will be notifying you tomorrow. We will sign it most likely tomorrow. Being drawn now and tonight.
And it's something we have to have in this country. We have to have it.
QUESTION: So, what about the people who say it doesn't track with opening up the country to shut down immigration across the board for companies, that -- and the pipeline that's already in place? What do you say to them?
TRUMP: Well, I think it really does. I think it's very strong, obviously. And it's countrywide, as opposed to specifically like China or some of the other ones that I have shut down.
We're going to see. And you will see a very accurate definition tomorrow after it's completed by the attorneys.
QUESTION: Last thing from me.
North Korea, what do you -- what can you tell us about the status of Kim Jong-un?
TRUMP: Well, these are reports that came out. And we don't know. We don't know.
I have had a very good relationship with him. I wouldn't -- I can only say this. I wish him well, because if he is in the kind of condition that the reports say, that the news is saying, that will be a -- that's a very serious condition, as you know.
But I wish him well. We have had a good relationship. I have said it. And I have said it many times. If somebody else were in this position, we would have been right now at war with North Korea. And we're not at war, and we're nowhere close to war with North Korea.
So, I just have to say to Kim Jong-un, I wish him very -- you know, good luck. Good luck. I mean, they came out with very, very serious medical reports. Nobody's confirmed that. It's -- it was CNN that came out. So, when CNN comes out with a report, I don't place too much credence in it.
QUESTION: Your meeting with Governor Cuomo, did he convince you of a need for expanded testing or...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, we had a great talk on testing.
And we have an agreement. We have an understanding on testing. They have labs, tremendous labs, as you know, in New York, especially in the Manhattan area, but all over the state, and great, great medical schools and federal labs.
So, we have a very good understanding. We're going to do very significant testing. You know, not everybody wants to do such significant testing. Testing is good in some cases. And, in some cases, it's not.
[18:25:01] You have governors that don't want to go all out on the testing, because they think they can do it in a different manner and do it better.
But we had a very good meeting today. The governor and I had a very good meeting.
QUESTION: Sir, do you want federal aid that can be used to help governors who want to expand testing?
Because we keep hearing --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes, we have -- we have $25 billion. And that's a tremendous amount of money.
That's -- that's far more money than -- in my opinion, than we will need. And, again, already, we're testing more, by far, than any country. I think I read yesterday a report that we have done more than everybody else, every other country combined.
And I think our people should be getting a lot of credit for that. We have done a lot, more than everybody else combined. And you never hear that in the news. It's unfortunate.
Yes, please.
QUESTION: Mr. President, just back on the executive order for a second.
You mentioned the -- that there are going to be some exemptions. We're reporting right now that it only applies to employment, in green -- green cards for employment, but not for those for immediate family...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, it is green cards. But we're going to be reporting on that later on. It might be tonight or tomorrow. We will give you an exact report.
QUESTION: Is there anything you can say to people who may be worried about the ability to bring immediate family members into this country?
TRUMP: No, I think it's been covered pretty accurately in this case. I think most people know what it is. And some people will be able to get in.
We have to do that, obviously, even from a humane standpoint. But there will be -- there will be some people coming in. But it's a -- it's a strong order. It's a strong order. It involves a big -- a big circle, as you know.
Please.
QUESTION: Are immigrants who are already in the country, are they at greater risk of deportation based on this order?
TRUMP: I don't think -- no, I don't think so. They're not supposed to be here. You're saying they're here illegally? Is that what you're saying?
QUESTION: Well, for example, if an immigrant is here for a court order, right, are they at risk of deportation based on this?
TRUMP: Well, if a court order, then you have to court. So, then the judge would make a determination as to whether or not they're going to be staying.
But if they have a court order, they won't have to leave until they go through that process. So, we will see what happens.
But with the court -- and there are some with court orders. That means they have a trial coming up.
Please.
QUESTION: Yes.
So, obviously, on the immigration executive order, you have raised concern for a long time, even in good economic times, about immigrants taking Americans' jobs. So, under what conditions would you consider lifting this halt on immigration?
TRUMP: Well, we're going doing it -- yes.
QUESTION: Or is this sort of an opportunity to address what you have seen as a problem for a long time?
TRUMP: Well, I think, look, right now, obviously, there's never been -- we had the greatest economy in the world. And then, one day, we had to shut it down. They said, you have to shut it down. We did the right thing, because I think we would have had a million or maybe even two million and maybe more than that deaths.
So, we did the right thing. But, certainly, this would pertain. I mean, when you look at it, right now, the last thing we want to do is take American workers' jobs. It's one thing when we were essentially -- they used to call it full employment.
And it's another thing right now. Right now, we have people that have lost their jobs, and we hope they're going to come back, and come back fast, and then we can have an even deeper discussion. But, right now, we have jobs for Americans.
QUESTION: But do you have any sense of, like, if unemployment gets to 4 percent or five percent, you know, people --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, we will have to see. I mean, I hope we're in that position to have that debate. Right now, we're not in that position. Right now, we closed down a -- the largest economy, the greatest
economy in the history of the world. It's the most successful economy. When you look at the stock market, it was breaking records virtually every week, sometimes every day. And the stock market is still not doing badly, considering what this country has been through, which really tells you how strong it was in the first place.
But, no, I hope we're going to be able to have that discussion, and I hope we're in a position. That's, like, a good discussion to have.
But that will be a little bit later.
Bret?
QUESTION: So, I have a question for Dr. Birx about, the CDC director said in an interview that perhaps this second wave of coronavirus in the fall could be worse because it is timed with the seasonal flu.
I'm just wondering if you could talk about that, in context of as you're opening up the country and these guidelines that you have laid out.
BIRX: Yes, so we were very clear in the guidelines that we believe we can monitor, again, monitor communities at the community level by using the influenza-like illness, and the syndromic respiratory and gastrointestinal components of this -- of this particular virus.
Obviously, when we have flu, we're going to -- and we're working on an algorithm that, you test for flu, and then you test for COVID, and making sure that we are building the testing capacity to be able to do that, because I think it's very important that you're going to be able -- I -- on the surface, a patient, when they come in with early flu and early COVID, can look very close to identical.
So, we need to have testing in place to be able to separate and ensure those patients receive the best treatment.
We're also hoping, by that time, that we have additional treatment options for people with COVID-19, so that there will be additional treatment available in the fall for this...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: But your -- your message would be to prepare for that time, thinking that it will come back together?
[18:30:03]
BIRX: The president has made it clear that we have the emergency, which we have been working on, the opening up guidelines and and just like he talks about phase four, he has us very much working on the next 60, 90 and for all on with fall. And that's why he's not stopped any of the ventilator orders.
It's very important that we have a completely refreshed and a comprehensive stockpile going into the fall. And I think that is why we continue to bring in those shipments and work on the ventilators so that those would be available not only for the United States but certainly if other partner countries have this level of tragedy.
REPORTER: Follow-up on that. So you agree this could come back, actually worse in the fall?
BIRX: I don't know if it will be worse. I think this has been pretty bad. When you see what has happened in New York, that was very bad. I believe that we'll have early warning signals both from the surveillance that we talk about on the vulnerable populations.
We're going to continue that surveillance from now all the way through the fall to be able to give us that early warning signal. I think what we've learned is how good Americans are about immediately reverting to all of those issues that they need to do in order to ensure that they are protected and their families.
REPORTER: And, Mr. President, what do you say of the concerns like Georgia is opening up barbershops and balling alleys and the like, and you saw Lindsay Graham is saying he's concerned that Georgia may be going too far, too fast and it could affect people in South Carolina? Obviously, people travel back and forth between states. How do you protect the people of South Carolina, for example, from a potentially bad decision by a governor in Georgia?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So he is a very capable man. He knows what he's doing. He's done a very good job as governor of Georgia and, by the way, in South Carolina, Governor McMaster also. So you have two very capable people. We're going to find out. And, in fact, I'm scheduled to speak to the governor of Georgia in a little while. But we'll find out.
REPORTER: Well, Lindsey Graham is concerned that what happens in Georgia can affect to --
TRUMP: I have a concern about what happens everywhere. I mean, we've got those concerns. And as far as coming back, if they do come back, and they could come back together, with heavy on the flu and much lighter on -- because I already believe we will be able to put out the fires.
You know, it's like fires. And we've learned a lot. We've become very good at this. When you look at what's happening, when you look at the numbers coming down, a lot of states are in really great shapes. You're going to see a lot of openings. But I will be speaking to the governor of Georgia in a while, okay?
REPORTER: Mr. President, will the American people need to be prepared for going back to social distancing even if things relax over the summer come to fall if (INAUDIBLE) --
TRUMP: Well, I could see them, and I'll speak for the doctor, and if you would like either of you to say, it. But I would say that you keep away until this thing is gone. It's going to be gone at some point. It's going to be gone, gone. And I would say you keep away and you do the social distancing until such time as you know it's gone, We'll know when that time is.
REPORTER: Your executive order is going to last for 60 days. How will you decide whether to extend it?
TRUMP: Well, we'll look at the economy. We'll see where we are with the economy, basically, and I think I'll have a very easy decision to make. I hope that the economy is going to be great by that time, but we'll see. But right now, in light of the fact that Americans are out of jobs, I can't be taking in.
REPORTER: Would you roll it for another 60 days or --
TRUMP: Well, I could, or I could roll it for 30 days, or I could roll it for much more than 60 days. We'll have to take and look at the time. But we'll be looking at 60 days and we'll see what it is. Yes, at your back.
REPORTER: Under immigration --
TRUMP: I'm sorry. You go -- why don't you go and then you.
REPORTER: Okay, on immigration order, we'll continue with that. There is reporting that you may actually signed a second order to even limit more the successions that you were just talking about. Can you confirm that you --
TRUMP: It can happen if I want. But I won't be doing it tomorrow. I will be signing the primary order and then we have the secondary order that if I want to do that, we'll make that determination. We can do that at a little different time, if we want.
REPORTER: But that is under consideration at the second order?
TRUMP: Yes, the secondary orders, yes. Please.
REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President. I have two questions. One from me and one from a reporter who couldn't be in the room because of social distancing.
TRUMP: Go ahead, one from you, one from her.
REPORTER: So my first question is about your immigration order. You campaigned on reducing legal immigration. I remember your speech in Phoenix in 2016 on reducing legal immigration.
TRUMP: I campaigned on legal and illegal, but, no, I have always said you have to come into the country legally, so not legal. What I campaigned on was people just flooding our border and stopping. And, by the way, speaking of that, we have 170 miles, almost 170 miles of very powerful border wall up.
And it's moving rapidly. Very quickly and it's having a tremendous impact and it's making our job a lot easier. Plus, Mexico has 27,000 soldiers right now on our southern boarder that we share with them.
[18:35:04] And Mexico has been terrific. They've really helped.
REPORTER: You also campaigned on reducing legal immigration, and I'm wondering if some critics are saying you are using the virus now in the crisis to follow through on that promise to reduce illegal immigration.
TRUMP: No. Well, I want people that are in this country, I want our citizens to get jobs. I don't want them to have competition. We have a very unusual situation where something came in that nobody has seen for many, many decades. Probably 1917 would be the closest analogy, if you look at, and when you look at the contagion, the kind of contagion we're talking about.
So, I'm not doing that at all. I want the American worker and the American -- our American citizens to be able to get jobs. I don't want them to compete right now. There is a big difference when we have a full economy and frankly where some of the companies -- we have many companies moving in, what they need actually, they need workers. That's a big difference between that and where all of a sudden a lot of people lose jobs.
REPORTER: As you know, a lot of farmers rely on seasonable migrant workers and --
TRUMP: The farmers will not be, that's an important point. The farmers will not be affected. Yes, that's a very important point. I mean, it's a great point actually. I'm glad you brought it up. No, the farmers will not be affected.
REPORTER: Your --
TRUMP: They've had cases where they stopped everybody from coming in, and all the farmers went out of business. They were literally out of business, you remember that, Brad. It was no long ago. But they -- it's easy, you know, it's easier to stop everything called than it is to plan it so that the farmers have the people that have been working in those farms for many years.
And that's what we're doing. No, the farmers will not be affected by this at all. If anything, we are going to make it easier and we are doing a process that will make it better for the workers to come in to go to the farm where they have been for a long time.
REPORTER: Now for a question from a reporter that out of the room is from The Washington Times, Tom Howell. Why hasn't the CDC or federal governments, may disease fighting agency, had a more public-facing role amid the pandemic? It was holding regular media calls early on but has not held one since early to mid-March.
TRUMP: Well, I can't tell that. The CDC has been terrific. We have worked with them very closely. They were very much involved even in the border decision that I made last night. And the directors -- the directors are doing a good job. We have always -- whether it's Tony or Deborah or Steve, we have always a lot of people up, and certainly as you have seen, the director has been here a lot, right? He has been here. He's been sitting here. He's been speaking a lot. No, no, CDC is very much involved in everything we have done.
Yes, please.
REPORTER: The director of the CDC's said the protests against stay at home orders are not helpful. You've encouraged some of these protests. What are your thoughts on the CDC director saying that these protesters --
TRUMP: Well, people, look, it's not a question at helpful or not. People want to get back to work. And I've watched some of the protests, not in great detail. But I've seen that. And they're separated. They have a lot of space in between. I mean, they're watching, believe it or not, social -- they're doing social distancing, if you can believe it. And they are. And they protesting, but they are -- the groups I have seen have been very much spread out. So I think that's good.
Look, people, they want to get back to work. They've got to make a living. They have to take care of their family. They don't want to do this. It's unfortunate, maybe one way or the other, both are unfortunate. Both are unfortunate, but you have a lot of people out there that are anxious to get back.
Yes, please?
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) is indicating that people are actually more concerned, more people are concerned about the virus spread. They don't want to go outside.
TRUMP: There are two groups. They're both a big groups, both of them.
REPORTER: So my question is what good is it for these businesses that would reopen if the customers are afraid to go outside?
TRUMP: Well, at the same time, we have to build back our country, and I'm going to make our country bigger and better and stronger, and we have to get started. There is a big difference though, because people have really been through a lot. And they understand what to do now.
Before, nobody had ever heard of a thing like this, when you say, I mean, nobody ever heard of a thing like this, distancing, social distancing, what does that mean, washing your hands every 15 minutes, what does that mean? I mean people have never seen or heard about anything like this. Now, they really -- not only have they done it but they've done a good job of it. But you have people, you can't break the country.
At some point, you have to go back. Now, hopefully, the governors are going to do it, because I want the governors, and I've always wanted that. You can call it federalism. You can call it whatever you want. But the governors, I want them to do it. If we see them doing something we don't like, we'll stop it very quickly. But they are doing a good job. They are being careful.
Some of the governors, frankly, they're in a position where they can do it sooner or they can do it a little bit later and that's okay. But people -- they don't want -- they need money.
[18:40:06]
They need help. We're going to lose -- and we can't break our country over this. We can't do it. We have to get going.
With that being said, some are going to go soon and some are not.
Yes, in the back, please?
REPORTER: If I might just -- pardon me, hair salons, nail salons, tattoo parlors. Dr. Birx, can you weigh in on this, because the people of Atlanta want to hear from you as well, as much as they want to hear from their governor and from you as well.
TRUMP: Yes, I think it's fine.
REPORTER: How do you safely have hair salons and nail salons and tattoo parlors where people were apparently --
TRUMP: Where is that?
REPORTER: This is in Georgia, where people have to inherently be close together.
BIRX: I think what I have been trying to communicate over the last several days is that it's very important that the governors and mayors communicate critical information to their communities and show clearly the data. Remember, we wanted this data and evidence-based, the data that they utilized to make decisions and the data the mayors should use in each communities, because it will have to be on a community by community opening, because there are different communities and different places, even in Georgia.
And so I believe people in Atlanta would understand that if their cases are not going down, that they need to continue to do everything we said, social distancing, washing your hands, wearing a mask in public. So if there is a way that people can social distance and do those things, then they can do those things. I don't know how. But people are very creative.
So I'm not going to prejudge, but we have told people very clearly and the president guidelines made it very clear about the expectations of phase one. And remember, phase one also included social distancing in restaurants, social distancing in every place that was entertainment and keeping your own individual social groups to less than ten. And then we've been very clear in the guidelines.
And I think it's up to the governors and mayors to ensure that they're following the best they can, each of the phases, to make sure both the public is completely protected. But the governors and mayors also need to communicate very clearly on the data that was used for decision- making and make that transparent and available to their community.
TRUMP: And also (INAUDIBLE) as an example that you just gave, are they doing testing before they go in? We have to find that out. That's why I'm speaking to the governor a little while. And I'll be asking those questions.
Please, go ahead.
REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President. I'm just trying to get a sense of what you have left in the tool box as it relates to oil. You hashed out a deal with OPEC Plus, you've ordered for purchases into the SPR. I mean, what else can be done?
TRUMP: What the biggest thing into the tool box is to get our country open. That is by far the biggest thing there is. If we can open pretty well, and I think we're going to over a period of time, piece by piece, puzzle, remember, if we can open well, I think that is your biggest part by far. That's where the engine is, more important than any other thing that we can work on.
Please, go ahead.
REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President. Two New York related questions, in your meeting with Governor Cuomo, was there talk about providing states like New York with aid in the fourth stimulus package? I wonder if you have any thoughts on whether that aid should be tied to infection rates, whether states like New York, New Jersey, that have been hardest hit should receive more money?
And I'm also wondering if you have any thoughts on Mayor Bill De Blasio saying today that he would like to host a ticker tape parade of sorts to once this is all over to honor the healthcare workers as New Yorker --
TRUMP: Frankly, that sounds like a good idea to me. When it's all over, it sounds like a great idea. They deserve it. They're warriors that done an incredible job. We mentioned briefly the state aid. We talked about that, Governor Cuomo and myself. And I agree with him on that. And I think most Republicans agree too, and Democrats. And that's part of phase four. And I think infrastructure is going to be a big part. We have to rebuild our country.
I mean, you take a look where we spend and we go over this all the time, but $8 trillion in the Middle East. We want to rebuild the country, that means our bridges, our tunnels, even schools, we're doing something with schools. We have to do our roadways that what's happened, we spend so much money on other countries that don't even -- that they don't appreciate it, okay? They don't appreciate it. We're going to spend money now on our country. And we're going to have -- it's going to be our jobs and it's going to be our equipment. It's going to be made -- much of it is going to be made here. Hopefully, at some point, all of it is going to be made here.
John?
REPORTER: Mr. President, at that podium back on March 9th, Vice President Pence said that over 1 million tests had been distributed. And he said, and this is his exact quote, before the end of this week, another 4 million tests will be distributed. As you know now, six weeks later, we're still aren't at 4 million tests. What went wrong with the testing?
[18:45:00]
TRUMP: Ready? Are you ready?
REPORTER: Yes.
TRUMP: Again, I will say it for a fifth time -- we have tested more than any country in the world and some of the countries are very big, OK? More than any country in the world, we have one of the most successful -- if you call mortality rates because one person, and I always say that for you in particular, one person is too many. But we've done very well -- our testing, if you add them all up, we've tested more.
Now, I don't know what Mike Pence said, but I'm sure he could answer that question.
REPORTER: No, no, he said 4 million tests and we're -- six weeks later, we're not at that point.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You know what, are you ready? Again, we've tested more than any country with in the world, even put together. So, that's all I can say.
As far as Mike, he'll answer your question when he's here. He'll be back tomorrow.
(CROSSTALK)
REPORTER: It's -- I just want to go back to the China deal and the phase one of this China deal.
TRUMP: Yes.
REPORTER: The flight ban is still in place. How confident are you that the Chinese are not going to use -- invoke the natural disaster clause to just wait before getting into here (ph) --
TRUMP: Well, we're going see. Look, there's nobody ever been tougher on China than me. And that means for 20 years. You go back 20 years.
I probably got elected at least partially on the fact that I've been very tough. I said China has been ripping us off for years.
I'd go into Michigan, I'd go into Pennsylvania and makes speeches, unrelated to being a politician. I'd be invited, I'd be speaking to people, which I like to do, because I love the people, I love the people of this country. And I'd make speeches.
Nobody -- I say, how did you let this happen with China? I even asked the leaders of China, how -- how did this ever happen, where our country losing tens of billions of dollars a year?
And I don't mean just tens. Take a look, $200 billion, $300 billion, $400 billion, $500 billion a year, how did they ever let a thing like this happen?
Now, if you look at this last year, the deficit went way down, and I'm talking about even before. Now, it's much different. But a lot of things are happening. Great things were happening.
Except, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, came the invisible enemy. And we think we know where it came from, and we'll be talking about that probably a lot -- but came the invisible enemy. There's been nobody tougher than me on China.
REPORTER: We have no guarantee that they are going to go ahead with this --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, but if that happens, we'll do a termination and we'll do what I can do better than anybody.
Yes, please?
REPORTER: First on China, U.S. intelligence --
BLITZER: All right, I want to go to Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical correspondent.
Sanjay, we heard something very, very intriguing from Dr. Deborah Birx who's the coronavirus response coordinator.
And what's going on where you are in Georgia right now, the governor saying that this coming Friday, they are going to open up tattoo parlors, hair salons and she said she doesn't know how they can do that, and the same time, maintain the guidelines of social distancing, which requires people to be at least six feet apart.
This sounds like Dr. Birx is totally disagreeing with the governor of Georgia.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: She was disagreeing as politely as she could, I think. She said, look, you know, she said this, I wrote this down. She said, we have put out on the guidelines. We have made it as clear to use as possible, the data. We are still seeing outbreaks.
I don't know how people can actually do these things and maintain social distance. It is the governor's choice. Maybe they'll get creative.
President Trump was then asked about the same thing regarding Georgia. And he said he's going to be talking to Governor Kemp later on. And he said, I don't know either, maybe they're going to be with doing testing in all these places. I think he is referring to hair salons and nail salons and things like before people are utilizing the services. We know that's not happening. People aren't getting tested before they go in a place of business.
So, it was very interesting to hear how they talked about this. Still saying it's up to the governors, they can decide. But we provided the guidelines. We provided the data. If they're going to do this sort of thing, open up these businesses, they're going to have to explain the rationale for doing so because it doesn't coincide with any of the guidelines we put.
Guidelines were designed to try to create a decision where it was safest to try to open up some of the businesses, knowing full well that no matter when this happens, Wolf, when these businesses start to open, there be likely be some rate of increase of infection. But right now, it's so early, we -- the numbers have not been going down and there's not the infrastructure in place.
So, I think it was a very polite and yet I think very clear sort of remark about Ambassador Birx's thoughts on reopening things here in Georgia.
BLITZER: And the other headline, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as far as Dr. Birx being polite to her colleague, head the CDC, Robert Redfield, suggesting in this "Washington Post" interview that a second wave of the coronavirus coming in the fall or winter could be even more deadly than what we're all going through right now.
[18:50:17]
And at one point, she said, I don't know how that could be more deadly, than what was going on in New York, for example. She was also polite but she seemed to disagree with his assessment.
GUPTA: Yes, she did. I caught that as well, Wolf. I think that was more sort of an effort by her to just say, look, we are still in the throes of this right now, still in the middle of this first wave. So let's not be diminishing that or minimizing that in any way.
But, you know, Dr. Redfield has sort of alluded to this in the past, and so has Dr. Fauci. This idea that if you look at how things sort of played out this time the coronavirus outbreak came in the United States as flu season was starting to trail off a bit. That may have been helpful.
The concern is if they both arrive at the same time in the fall, they start to peak at the same time, that could be, you know, very significant for hospitals in terms of how they would care for these patients. We keep talking about ventilators, for example, Wolf, and saying, hey. Maybe we didn't need the ventilators, you know. And maybe we didn't need them as much for this first wave.
But the concern is that the second wave when you're getting so many patients from both flu and coronavirus at the same time, you might, likely would need a lot of these resources again, ventilators, personal protective equipment, testing, tracing, all of the things we've been talking about for some time. Those requirements are not going to go away until we, you know, have something like a vaccine probably. So, you know, again, we've heard this a few times in different ways.
Today was perhaps the most stark representation of that the way Dr. Redfield put it. But I think this information has been out there. Maybe we have to social distance a lot longer than we realized, at least intermittently.
You remember that Harvard study, Wolf, that said maybe we'd have to do this until the year 2022. I don't think it is going to be that long by any means, but you're starting to hear the same sort of message from I think lots of different places, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, it's interesting.
Gloria Borger is with us as well.
Gloria, what also jumped out at me was the way the president once again was defending the protests that are going on right now against all the social distancing, insisting, and it is not true if you take a look at the pictures and the video, that these people are separating themselves, six feet apart, they're not very close together.
We are showing pictures right now. They're pretty close together, not wearing masks. They don't have any gloves. Some are wearing masks but not many are in the images we're showing our viewers right now. The president was basically defending their right to do so. Dr. Redfield earlier said it's not very helpful.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right. And, you know, the president said, you know, I've watched some of the protests on television. They're separated. There is space in between them. They're doing social distancing.
We've watched a lot of these protests. Maybe some of the protesters are. But I don't know what pictures he's looking at, but a lot of the video we've looked at shows that they're not doing social distancing.
And again, it is this kind of a mixed message. Don't worry. Don't pay attention to the guidelines that we have offered you from the administration.
You know, I want to add one thing to what Sanjay was saying about Dr. Birx. I understand the need to kind of be correct here and not attack people, etcetera.
But I think when people are looking for straight answers from the medical community, she was trying to be creative, right, as you put it, and I think that an answer would have been, look, if I were the governor of that state, I'm not so sure I would do this. Look at their curve. Let's see where their curve is. Our guidelines call for downward trend over two weeks.
And she shied away from doing that. And the president indicated that he is going to talk to the Georgia governor about the opening of beauty salons, etcetera. But I think in this circumstance and maybe I'm wrong, Sanjay, and maybe there is a need to kind of waffle a little bit on this, but I thought that in a way she could have been a lot stronger to these communities and say, look. We didn't put these guidelines out there for nothing. We spent a lot of time on this. We're trying to help you save lives in your communities.
BLITZER: Jim Acosta is with us as well, our chief White House correspondent.
Jim, the president using this moment with the coronavirus pandemic to announce a 60-day suspension of immigration into the United States.
[18:55:03]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. That appeared to a lot of people to be a distraction last night. It may just be a distraction at the end of the day.
The president was careful to note that farmers are not going to be affected by this. Temporary workers coming into this country to work on those farms are not going to be covered under this executive order that is going to affect people, essentially applying for green cards right now, and keep in mind, a lot of these offices are not open for green card, you know, people who want to get green cards to stay in this country as a permanent resident, legal permanent resident. So, this has come off I think as largely a distraction.
But getting back to what Gloria and Sanjay were just saying a few moments ago, I think it does have to be said at this point that the president appears to be giving the green light to these protesters who were at these demonstrations outside state houses around the country. The president was absolutely just gaslighting people there in the briefing room just a few moments ago, Wolf, when he said these protesters are practicing social distancing. They're just not.
The president, you know, said a week ago when they released the new guidelines that if he saw any governor who was doing something that he disagreed with, that he would come down hard on that governor. That is not happening with these governors who are racing ahead of the administration's guidelines and opening up quickly, like Governor Kemp is in Georgia.
And so, it appears that, you know, when the president is going to sound off on these governors, it is when they're not opening up quickly enough. And, you know, just to add to that when the president is sending out protesters to the state houses to demonstrate against social distancing, that is putting pressure on the state houses, that's putting pressure on those governments to reopen. So, you know, he is sort of attacking this from a couple different vantage points, putting pressure on the governors and really giving the green light to his own supporters to demonstrate against the state houses where they're not opening up quickly, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, our fact checker Daniel Dale is with us as well.
All right. Daniel, you were listening. What did you think?
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: There was a whole lot, Wolf. Our colleagues have covered the matter of these protests where people are very much not distancing. There was also talk about tattoo parlors, hair salons in Georgia that are being reopened and the president said -- he said as an example you just gave, are they doing testing before they go in? We have to find out.
There is no plan for widespread testing outside tattoo parlors and hair salons in Georgia. The plan is to reopen as normal so the president posed this as a question rather than a declaration. But, no, it's not happening.
Wolf, the president also talked about people being anxious to get back to work. How we can't break the country. Have to go back.
Of course, people do want to make a living, they want to go back but I think it is also worth noting that all of the polling has shown people are more worried about reopening too quickly than too slowly. We have a Pew poll this week saying 66 percent were more concerned about reopening too fast. Only 32 percent concerned about too slow.
So, when we do cover the protests, and we should, we should note that they represent a minority position. Wolf, the president also said the testing is good in some cases and in some cases it's not. It's also worth noting that it is the consensus of experts that testing is critical to safely reopen the country. Of course, some people believe it is more essential than others. There are subjective differences there. But there is no belief testing is not good in some cases. This is factually important.
BLITZER: I want to go back to Sanjay.
Sanjay, you live in Georgia and you are very close to what is going on. The CDC is headquartered in Atlanta. I haven't spoken to any medical experts who think the governor of Georgia is making the right decision by opening up these businesses.
GUPTA: I haven't either, wolf. I want to agree strongly with what Gloria said as well. Now is not the time for waffling. Now is not the time to be equivocating on this stuff. Now is the time for honesty.
It can be tough sometimes to lay out the honest facts about this, but it is that important that people hear this and they hear it in a very, very clear way.
What Ambassador Birx said when asked about Georgia is, basically, look. We've put out these guidelines. We made it as clear to use as possible. We're still seeing outbreaks. I don't know how you do it.
I think, again, as Gloria said, Ambassador Birx, who is a member of the coronavirus task force, I think probably just needs to say, look, that's a bad idea. We shouldn't be doing this. We're seriously worried that people might get infected who otherwise would not. People might get hospitalized who otherwise would not. People might even die who otherwise would not.
I don't enjoy saying this stuff, Wolf, but I think the honesty is really important here. I think even this issue of hydroxychloroquine came up and there was a study out today showing it doesn't seem to be beneficial. It was a small study. They say maybe it caused a higher death rate in people who used it.
When Dr. Hahn out of the FDA was asked about it he said, well, doctors should take that into consideration when prescribing this medication. Take this into consideration that a drug may cause increased death rates? I mean, look, I think we need to be more honest right now. It is that important, Wolf.
BLITZER: It certainly is. All right, guys. Everybody, stand by.
CNN is going to continue our special coverage right now with "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT."
