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The Situation Room

Trump Announces Emergency Use Authority for Coronavirus Treatment; Maryanne Trump Barry Blasts Trump in Secretly Recorded Audio; Interview with Governor Asa Hutchinson (R-AR) about the Upcoming Republican National Convention; New Orleans and Louisiana Bracing for Two Possible Hurricanes. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 23, 2020 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:36]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of the SITUATION ROOM.

President Trump just a little while ago making what he calls a historic announcement over at the White House. The president claiming he has directed the Food and Drug Administration to give emergency use authorization to a coronavirus therapy called convalescent plasma.

President Trump sharing the podium with the head of the FDA, the agency that just one day ago the president accused of harboring what he called a deep-state operation bent on derailing his re-election prospects.

The therapy the president is authorizing, convalescent plasma, refers to the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients with medicine made from the blood of people who have recovered from the coronavirus disease. It has already been used to treat more than 70,000 hospitalized patients, according to the Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar.

Let's get to CNN's Jeremy Diamond. He's over at the White House for us.

Jeremy, the president is saying this therapy, convalescent plasma, will, in his words, save countless lives. Clearly a familiar ring. The president has fully endorsed some other treatments and therapies that the scientific community did not necessarily sign off on.

Any concern out there right now? What are you hearing this might be a similar thing? We all hope it works, of course, but what are you hearing?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there certainly is a big question here, Wolf, of how much political pressure the president has applied to the FDA in order for them to grant this emergency use authorization. We know that it was something that the FDA certainly was already considering, but there had been concerns expressed earlier this week by top government scientists at the National Institutes of Health that the data simply wasn't there yet to authorize this emergency use authorization.

Nonetheless, Wolf, there is no question that there has been some evidence, at least, suggesting that this could be a potentially effective treatment. But even the FDA's own comments here make very clear that this is potential. That this may be effective. But not that that conclusion has been reached as of yet. But to listen to the president, this is a historic breakthrough in his own words. And listen to him as he describes this, quote-unquote, "logjam" that he says existed and that he was able to break through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that there might have been a holdup, but we broke the logjam over the last week, to be honest. I think that there are people in the FDA and actually in your larger department that can see things being held up and wouldn't mind so much, that's my opinion, a very strong opinion, and that's for political reasons. This has nothing to do with politics. This has to do with life and death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Look, there can certainly be a push and pull between what the White House wants here and what the FDA wants here. But for the president to accuse the FDA of having political motives in not approving this treatment as quickly as he would like it to be, there is no evidence to support that. The president certainly hasn't provided any evidence to back that up.

And of course, Wolf, we do have to look at this in the eye of the political calendar that we now stand in. The president tomorrow is set to begin this Republican National Convention. I've been told that he's going to speak every single night of the convention or make some kind of an appearance at least every evening.

And the president certainly has been looking for a victory here. An overwhelming majority of Americans think he has not correctly handled this coronavirus pandemic and this is certainly one attempt by the president to try and right that trajectory.

BLITZER: We're going to have a lot more on this coming up. And I want to get to a different issue right now, very sensitive issue, Jeremy. It's the eve of course of the Republican National Convention. The White House is dealing with this unexpected leaked audio, the president's older sister saying some rather unflattering things about her brother, the president of the United States. It broke last night. As we all know it has the bombshell, it clearly is a bombshell and it is echoing around the White House today, all of Washington.

Give us the latest, the fallout, the reaction you're getting from what we heard in this audiotape first reported by the "Washington Post" from the president's older sister, a retired and highly respected federal judge. DIAMOND: Well, look, the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she reacted to

this today saying that it was heartbreaking that a family member would have that view of one of their own, in this case, the president's sister having this view of her brother, that he is, quote, "cruel," that he's a liar, that he is somebody with no principles. Those are the words of the president's older sister in this candid conversation that she had with the president's niece, a conversation that she of course did not know was being recorded.

[19:05:09]

The White House chief of staff Mark Meadows for his part said that it was a sad day to hear this recording, and let's just play a snippet of that recording, Wolf, as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARYANNE TRUMP BARRY, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SISTER: This goddam tweet and the lying, oh, my God, I'm talking too freely but, you know. The change of stories, the lack of preparation, the lying, the -- holy shit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now of course it is startling to hear those words coming from any president of the United States' own sibling, a pretty damning characterization of their character, and certainly it matches with what we heard over the last week at the Democratic National Convention.

A host of speakers, prominent Democrats like the former president, Barack Obama, the former first lady, Michelle Obama, as well as some Republicans like the Ohio governor, John Kasich, former Ohio governor, all made these same indictments of the president's character, trying to suggest that character should be on the ballot and that you should compare Joe Biden to Donald Trump in terms of their fitness for office and their ability to empathize with this difficult moment of course in American history.

Now the president and his family members, at least his children, they will have an opportunity this week to rebut these characterizations of the president's character. We expect to hear from all four of the president's adult children during the Republican National Convention and we expect them, of course to try and provide a very different kind of character testimonial for their father -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jeremy, thank you very much. Jeremy Diamond at the White House for us.

Let's bring in our medical panel right now to break down today's announcement from the FDA. Our medical analyst, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, is joining us, an emergency physician, Dr. Megan Ranney is with us as well.

Dr. Walensky, the president called this emergency use authorization of this convalescent plasma, emergency use authorization, a historic breakthrough. Is that actually the case?

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good evening, Wolf. You know, I wouldn't call it a historic breakthrough. I think it is an incremental -- potential incremental benefit for what we have in our toolbox to treat this disease right now. I would say over 70,000 people, as you know, have gotten it, over 2800 hospitals have used it. Over 10,000 physicians have prescribed it.

So what's happened here with this emergency use authorization is I think we're less likely to get the data we need. That is patients are less likely to enroll in what we really need, which is the randomized clinical trial rather than a cohort data that we have in our hands right now to see if you can compare people who did get convalescent plasma with people who did not get it. Right now, all the data that we have are, this is what happens when people got it.

BLITZER: Yes, and Dr. Hahn, Stephen Hahn, the head of the FDA, the commissioner, he himself said it's not the same as approval. They're still collecting, he said, data on all of this.

Dr. Ranney, the treatment actually has been available, as we note, to thousands of Americans since March. Explain what exactly this emergency use authorization right now -- how it changes anything, if it does change anything, because 70,000 hospitalized patients have been getting this plasma.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN BROWN UNIVERSITY: Yes, so, Wolf, up until this emergency use authorization was passed, folks could only get the convalescent plasma through a special program that was really run out of Mayo Clinic based in Minnesota. With the emergency use authorization, now hospitals across the country can use convalescent plasma without having to go through that complicated process of registering and working with Mayo.

So it makes it easier to get, basically, which has benefits for patients and for physicians, but it also has drawbacks. As Dr. Walensky said, by passing this EUA, it makes it less likely potentially that patients will enroll in trials and so we may not get that gold standard evidence that we're looking for.

Convalescent plasma is not easy to get. It is not cheap. It doesn't have a ton of side effects, but it does have some. And what we would love to see is if it really works and if so for whom, if we can't run those trials, we may never know those answers. And so we may not be able to do as good of a job of taking care of our patients.

BLITZER: And Dr. Walensky, it's only being used for hospitalized coronavirus patients, right?

WALENSKY: Right. So this is one of the complexities here and we'll have to see some of the details that come out of this EUA. In theory, convalescent plasma should actually work earlier in the disease rather than later in the disease. The first 35,000 patients that were put in preprint data from the first 35,000 patients that were put in preprint online earlier this month August 12th showed what happens if we give it in severe disease. But most of the trials that are really out and starting to enroll look

at what might happen if we use it in mild disease and among inpatients or even in mild disease among outpatients.

[19:10:05]

BLITZER: You know, Dr. Ranney, it's really significant, the president accused -- and I think this is -- I haven't heard anything like this. He accused the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, of deliberately delaying COVID vaccine therapeutics for political reasons, supposedly, to wait until after the election so it wouldn't help him get elected.

I want you to listen to what the White House chief of staff said today defending the president's comments. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: He had to make sure that they he felt the heat. If they don't see the light, they need to feel the heat because the American people are suffering. This president knows it. And he's going to put it on wherever is the FDA or the NIH, or anybody else to make sure that we deliver on behalf of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And yesterday in a tweet the president specifically said that the deep state over at the FDA is making it very difficult to get these kinds of drugs approved. They are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd.

I don't remember a time when a president of the United States has so directly intervened with what the FDA is doing in improving or going forward with a specifically drug. Do you?

RANNEY: No, Wolf. I cannot remember this ever in our American history. The FDA is one of the bulwarks of our country, protecting American's health. It's thanks to the FDA that we protected Americans from exposure to thalidomide which caused birth defects in tens of thousands of babies across the world.

The FDA has been crucial in our fight to make sure that Americans get safe and effective medications. This statement on the part of Trump was frankly baloney. It hurts science, it hurts public health, and it potentially can hurt Americans' trust in the validity of all of our evidence around treatments and around vaccines. It's part of a pattern of him casting dispersions on folks that do things that he disagrees with.

And if he really wants to do the hard work to protect Americans, I would ask him to put forward a national strategy of universal masking, testing and tracing, and maintaining social distancing when and where possible. That is what we need. Not these political threats against civil servants and scientists who are doing unbelievably hard and good work.

BLITZER: Yes. These are life and death issues as we all know.

Dr. Ranney, thank you so much. Dr. Walensky, thanks to you as well.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Convention kicks off tomorrow. The RNC says Democrats fed up with their party will be showing up in support of President Trump. But how realistic is that? Will any prominent Democrat be speaking at the Republican convention?

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[19:16:57]

BLITZER: A crucial part of President Trump's election victory nearly four years ago was his ability to convert Obama voters in 2012 to Trump voters. As many as nine million people were estimated to have made that switch according to an analysis by the University of Virginia Center for Politics. In 2020 the Biden campaign is hoping to pull off something similar by converting 2016 Trump voters into Joe Biden voters.

In the past week, dozens of prominent Republicans have actually endorsed the Democratic presidential nominee and CNN has covered GOP voters in swing states like Arizona who are actually right now organizing for Biden.

I'm joined now by Arkansas' Republican Governor Asa Hutchinson.

Governor Hutchinson, as usual thanks so much for joining us. As you know, the never Trump faction proved rather ineffective in 2016. The president was elected. Do you think they're becoming a bigger factor four years later, this time around?

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R), ARKANSAS: No, it's really the same bloc of individuals. I mean, their voice is heard now, the same way it was heard four years ago. So I don't see that shifting everything. They're expressing themselves. I think it's very, very important that President Trump in this next week sets out his agenda for the future in a very optimistic way. He can't dwell upon some of those side events like that.

He can't worry about a few of the defections there. He's got to speak and energize his base, but more importantly, to really shift to the future with optimism, with hope, talking about where he wants to take America. That's what everybody is really sitting on the edge of their seat wanting to hear in what they didn't hear last week.

BLITZER: Your fellow Republican, Vermont's Republican Governor Phil Scott on Friday said he won't be voting for President Trump. Do you expect any more of your fellow GOP governors to break ranks?

HUTCHINSON: I don't know the answer to that. I think it's solid. There's a lot of support and part of the reason is the governors have really had a very good working relationship with President Trump and the vice president through this coronavirus where they've had to support us, they've had regular communications, not just from the White House but throughout his administration, and so that good relationship both actually on the Democrat and Republican side pays dividends.

I think they appreciate that, but we'll see whether there's any defections there. That could be simply reflecting the politics of their individual state.

BLITZER: What about you?

HUTCHINSON: Oh, I'm solid. You know, I look at what we saw last week and Joe Biden had a good convention. It was a straight-forward convention. They had their attacks on this administration. They've set up some of the differences and they got to know Joe Biden so that was good.

[19:20:04]

But what they really didn't focus on that much that I heard was specific plans for the future. Generally the Democrat nominee shifts more to the middle. But their platform continues to shift to the left being dominated by Senator Sanders and Senator Warren, and the left wing of the party. And I think that contrast is worrying America. And you got to capitalize that on this week's convention.

There's a big opportunity for the president, if he handles this in the right way, that he'll come out of there with an actual bump. It will be the first real bump that we've seen through virtual conventions. But he's got to be able to maneuver and show the distinctions in a positive way, which is going to be tough. That's not his style. But he needs to do that to show the hope and optimism for the future. That's the opportunity that's presented this week.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, we watched the Democratic convention all four nights, four former Democratic presidents, Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, they all spoke in support of Biden, of course. And I noticed that former president George W. Bush is not going to be appearing at the Republican convention. I don't think former vice president Dick Cheney will either. What does that say to you, if anything?

HUTCHINSON: Well, it says that we're not as united as we would like to be. That's disappointing for me. Somebody that served in the Bush administration. Obviously, there's a lot of personal history there. But, you know, this is Trump's show. We want to show a unity among the party, which with those defectors is a little bit hard to do. But at the same time the key thing and Trump cannot spend time dwelling upon that, he's got a really an all-star cast of speakers this week, from senators to state legislators, attorney generals.

And I think it's going to be a more than exciting show than what we saw last week. I think you'll have more energy there. And I think -- you know, you've got to be able to capture the audience, but then you've got to deliver the message. And with the speakers that are there talking about the foreign policy successes of this president, the fact that we have a new NAFTA, one of his big promises, that there were skeptics like me that did not think he was going to be able to pull it off and he did. And now we have the new USMCA, that's the North American trade that

everyone says is a positive step in the right direction. He pulled that off. He's got a lot to talk about, what he did, but also he's got to fill in the blank as to what he wants to do in the next four years.

BLITZER: And the White House says we will be hearing directly from the president every night, these four nights, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday from the president himself.

Governor Hutchinson, thanks so much for joining us.

HUTCHINSON: Great to be with you, Wolf, thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

With the Democratic National Convention behind us, it's the Republicans' turn to take the virtual stage. All week long, we're covering the big speeches, important moments and of course President Trump. It all starts tomorrow with our special coverage here on CNN beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right after THE SITUATION ROOM live on CNN.

Fifteen years ago this week, New Orleans was devastated by Hurricane Katrina. Now it's facing the possibility of being hit by two hurricanes this coming week. We're live in the city. We're in New Orleans when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:28:09]

BLITZER: Fifteen years ago this week, Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans and right now Louisiana is bracing for one, possibly two, hurricanes. First there's Marco which strengthened to a category 1 hurricane today, then Laura also expected to strengthen to a hurricane before making landfall along the gulf later this week.

CNN's Martin Savidge is joining us now from New Orleans.

Martin, so what are folks in New Orleans and Louisiana doing right now to prepare for the possibility of a one-two punch?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that's exactly what the governor is describing this as, a one-two punch. The likes of which even though Louisiana and New Orleans have seen many, many storms, and you pointed out Katrina, I was here for Katrina. Even though they have seen those many storms, they've never seen anything like what is shaping up this week. Not one, but two potential hurricanes following on the heels of one another, so closely that it has officials extremely worried.

You know, Wolf, individually, these two storms would be considered manageable by emergency officials, a category one, possibly category two. But when you combine them together, officials say all bets are off. They really do not know what to expect. The public is also equally concerned. In fact normally a storm like Marco would not generate a lot of excitement here, but there have been long lines of people stocking up and getting their emergency supplies in order because the governor says it may be on their own safety and their own actions for the first 72 hours. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN BEL EDWARDS (D), LOUISIANA: You need to be prepared to ride out these storms, you and your family, wherever you are at dark tonight. And that is because tropical storm force winds will be impacting coastal Louisiana before daylight tomorrow. I know that -- you've heard that frequently. But with this one-two punch, that what we're expecting.

[19:30:00]

This is a situation where you really need to be prepared, as we've always told you to ride out these storms in the first 72 hours is on you.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Governor has said that there could be less than 20 hours between the effects of one storm fading, and the next door moving in. They're worried about flooding. And if there has to be water rescues, there may not be a lot of time to conduct the rescues before Hurricane Laura begins to make his presence known -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: All right, Martin, thank you very much. Martin Savidge reporting from New Orleans. Let's hope everything works out over there. Thank you very much.

Coming up, why millions of Americans could soon be at risk of losing their homes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just got into our apartment. We've been there for a year or -- so I'm like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:04]

BLITZER: Some months in into the coronavirus pandemic, millions of Americans are out of work, too many struggling to simply pay the bills, struggling to feed their families and with eviction moratoriums set to expire soon all over the country, many are now so deeply worried about simply losing their homes.

CNN's Kyung Lah reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A number of people in a household -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not the only parent out here that's

struggling. I can't imagine how many other parents are sitting here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Here at the Los Angeles Food Bank.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put it in park, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my first time coming up and grabbing food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Today is the first day of virtual school for Juana Moore two children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUANA MOORE, VISITING THE FOOD BANK FOR THE FIRST TIME: My kids are in there right now, like we don't have anything to eat. I'm like, I know. Let me go see what I can do.

We were homeless, and then we just got into our apartment. We've been there for a year. We just got the car in November, so everything has been like a stair step for me, and now the stair steps are going back down. So I'm like, I don't -- I don't know what to do. I don't know. I don't know what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): The single mother is thousands behind in rent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two family?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Unable to work while also homeschooling her kids. The $600.00 a week Federal stimulus -- that's gone as Congress fights over a new deal, just as eviction moratoriums expire in nearly half of the states in the U.S., leaving an estimated 20 million Americans at risk of eviction by September 30th like Ty Chen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY CHEN, AT RISK OF EVICTION: I'm paying around $1,100.00 a month and obviously I don't have that amount of income at all anymore. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Before the pandemic, Chen was a photographer, restaurant surfer and actor with small roles on hit shows like "Grey's Anatomy," he was able to pay partial rent with the stimulus money, but now --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: I was actually only approved for $117.00 per week on state unemployment.

LAH (on camera): What does that get you?

CHEN: Like there's kind of a running clock of, you know, a ticking time bomb of when things are going to happen. I think my best bet is to stay here until they try to evict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): What we keep hearing from Americans in all sectors of the economy -- frustration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS FAHEY, OUT OF WORK PRODUCTION MANAGER: I don't want your unemployment. I don't want the $600.00 extra, I want to work. I want to work at what I do and I want to utilize my 30 years of experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): For three decades, Chris Fahey has been a live production manager, making six figures last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAHEY: Hey, Miles. Come here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (voice over): Great money, this single father says for him and his two kids, but his entire industry is shut down. Live entertainment likely won't come back in full until sometime next year. Thousands are out of work with no options.

Fahey is left choosing what bills to pay and how much rent can fall behind on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAHEY: There's no direction. No answer. No plan. There's no hope. It's like there's no -- there's no outcome that is going to be financially viable for anyone at the moment.

Love you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Kyung Lah reporting. Heartbreaking indeed.

Meanwhile, the White House already threatening to veto the $25 billion in additional funding for the U.S. Postal Service approved by the House of Representatives if it were to also pass the Senate, it doesn't even look like it's going to be taken up by the Republican majority in the Senate.

Meanwhile, President Trump is saying he is willing to negotiate more funds for the Postal Service if he gets what he wants on other corona relief packages.

This comes after nearly half of the House Democrats signed a letter this week calling on the Speaker Nancy Pelosi to pass a standalone unemployment bill and restart talks with the White House.

CNN's economics commentator, Kevin Hassett is joining us. He is the former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Trump.

Kevin, thanks for joining us. Good to have you back here on the CNN team.

KEVIN HASSETT, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Wolf. Great to be back.

BLITZER: As you know, we're seeing record unemployment -- what -- more than 50 million Americans over these past few months have applied for unemployment, more than a million last week alone, 1.1 million, about 30 million are still receiving some sort of unemployment.

People are struggling to get by, people are hurting, as we just saw. Why can't both sides simply get together and get a new, an additional relief bill passed?

HASSETT: Well, I still think that's going to happen, Wolf, and you know, the one thing that I have to say and it was really a heart wrenching piece that you just showed us is that even if they don't come together, which we hope they do, then there is some relief coming their way.

There's an extra $300.00 in emergency relief funds that the President with an executive order has given people who are unemployed, and the payroll tax cut, which is in effect through the end of December is something that is going to take effect for people who are employed.

And so there is some relief coming if there is no bill, but there should be a bill and from what I've been hearing from my friends back at the White House that there are still ongoing talks, and that people are actually moving forward quite rapidly right now, and that the odds of a bill have gone up quite a bit in the last week.

And I think if that's true, I think one reason is that people of both parties look at stories like the one you just showed, and they recognize that we need to do more. We've not done enough [19:40:26]

BLITZER: With the economy where it is right now and the economy is in an awful condition. It was in great addition until the coronavirus pandemic, now it's in terrible condition.

Americans will be closely watching this week to see if the President comes to the Republican National Convention stage with a real plan in place. What do you want to hear from the President?

HASSETT: Well, I think that again, if the January economy had carried through to today, then an economists would very easily be able to write the President's speech at the convention because there was so much as you remember to brag about -- the lowest unemployment rate ever for just about every group, income inequality declining and so on.

But the fact is that we shut the economy down for good reasons. So the public health officials told us to do it, and that kind of shut down is something that we've never seen before.

We've had the biggest negative shock to an economy that I've ever as an economist seen. And so really, I think the first thing is that there's not a lot of economic discussion to be had at the convention this week, I think that there's a heck of a lot -- people are still very much concerned about what the path forward is with corona.

You know, the piece that you just played, the person mentioned that they have to stay home and watch the kids because the schools aren't open. There are so many issues that are a little bit more important right now than the economy.

But if we get to the economy, I think that what the President is going to do is remind people that he worked with Congress to pass three phases of stimulus very effectively, and that he hopes that he could get another one passed. I think that that's the near term thing.

In the long run, though, I think that there's a great risk that we still head into a deep and protracted recession. I think most economists think that's possible, because we've never seen a negative shock quite this big.

So I want to know, what are you going to do next year to make sure we have economic growth? And that's where I think he can draw a distinction between himself and say, Vice President Biden, who I thought had a great convention last week, but still hasn't really shown me a lot of things that are going to make the economy rev up next year if we get rid of COVID.

So for example, if we have a big tax hike, that's probably a negative, not a positive and I think that that kind of distinction is something the President might draw, but he should do so delicately because I think that there are many more important issues than next year's economy right now.

BLITZER: And very quickly, how long is this recession going to continue?

HASSETT: Well, the third quarter is going to be one of the biggest positive numbers ever, and then the question is what happens next? And I think that if we have a President with a growth agenda, then we can turn this around and the recession will be over in the third quarter.

BLITZER: In the third quarter of what? This year?

HASSETT: This year. Yes, that's right, because we're going to have a third quarter that's 30 percent growth. And so if the fourth quarter is positive, then I think that people will say that sometime between the second and third quarter the recession ended.

And so I think it's quite possible that that could happen. But again, it's not certain and if COVID gets, you know, rears up again and people have to shut down again. Then this thing can go on for a really good long time.

BLITZER: Kevin Hassett, thanks so much for joining us.

HASSETT: Thanks, Wolf. Great to be back.

BLITZER: Good to have you back.

The President's former chief strategist, Steve Bannon, arrested on felony fraud charges and now apparently a member of the President's I- barely-even-knew-him club, how official say he ripped off millions from a fund to build the wall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:58]

BLITZER: Steve Bannon accused Federal prosecutors of launching quote, "a political hit job" after he was arrested with three others and charged with fraud. That fraud prosecutors allege was to divert hundreds of thousands of dollars raised by a private group called We Build The Wall that was intended to pay for a section of the border wall with Mexico. CNN's Drew Griffin reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): he president seemed to have amnesia over his once close relationship to Steve Bannon and the president's own support for the project called We Build the Wall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know nothing about the project, other than I didn't like when I read about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): That doesn't seem to line up with what others recall Trump saying about the project, like Kris Kobach, former Kansas Secretary of State and advisory board member of the We Build the Wall organization, who's repeatedly said not only did the President know about the project that raised $25 million in donations, but supported it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRIS KOBACH, WE BUILD THE WALL ADVISORY BOARD: I've spoken to the President about this project on three occasions now.

Trump expressed clear enthusiasm for it. He wants it known that he stands behind this.

And he went further and he said I want the media to know that this project has my blessing. He was really making a point that he was behind this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): A point echoed by the Chief Financial Officer of We Build the Wall, Amanda Shea.

She's married to one of the men indicted and posted this photo of her and President Trump, last summer, saying she talked with "President Trump, who had a lot of questions about the wall, we, the people built through We Build the Wall. He was impressed," she said.

Donald Trump's son, Don Jr., was apparently impressed, too. The Facebook account of the group's Founder, Brian Kolfage, shows him with the President's son taking a private jet to an event last year, where Don Jr. praised the private wall effort.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: This is private enterprise, at its finest, doing it better, faster, cheaper than anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Kolfage, Andrew Badolato, Timothy Shea and Steve Bannon, according to prosecutors, worked together to misappropriate hundreds of thousands of dollars of those funds for their own personal benefit, payments allegedly went toward a boat, a luxury SUV, a golf cart, jewelry, cosmetic surgery.

That boat is one Kolfage used in a Florida pro-Trump boat parade. When reports accused Kolfage of misspending funds, last summer, he and Steve Bannon joked about it in a video from the border project site.

[19:50:27]

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Welcome back. This is Stephen K. Bannon. We're off the coast of Saint-Tropez in Southern France in the Mediterranean. We're on the million-dollar yacht of Brian Kolfage. And Brian Kolfage, he took all that money from Build the Wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The joke, not so funny now. Kolfage, a triple amputee Air Force veteran, repeatedly claimed he wouldn't take a single penny for running the operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN KOLFAGE, WE BUILD THE WALL FOUNDER: One hundred percent of your money goes towards the wall. It's not going to line someone's pocket. I'm taking $0 as a salary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Reached by e-mail, Friday, Kolfage told CNN, prosecutors "Lumped every purchase I've made, in the past two years, into the indictment, even before We Build the Wall, not taking into account the fact I have other sources of income to pay for things. Like Bannon said," Kolfage wrote, "It's a fiasco."

According to the indictment, the co-defendants conspired to pay Kolfage's salary with donors' money by using a second non-profit and hidden payments. Philanthropy expert Doug White says it's the type of alleged fraud that hurts all charities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG WHITE, NONPROFIT EXPERT AND AUTHOR: And that's what really breaks my heart. Here's an example.

If the allegations are true, of fraud, at its worst and they were defrauded out of maybe checks of $10.00 or $50.00, some many, many more dollars, but none of that should take place under the guise of having someone then take that money, or part of it to go live a lavish lifestyle. It absolutely has to be stopped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The others indicted, Andrew Badolato, a 56- year-old Florida-based investor, who's been close to Bannon for more than 20 years.

In the early 2000s, Badolato and Bannon were also directors of a nasal spray company, called SinoFresh Healthcare. Executives there pushed to remove Bannon from the Board for not investigating improprieties allegedly tied to Badolato.

Badolato went on to write for Bannon's Breitbart news site and has repeatedly filed for bankruptcy, has faced more than a dozen state and federal tax liens.

The third conspirator, Timothy Shea, is accused of secretly filtering donations to himself and Kolfage, payments described as social media charges. The Denver real estate agent sells a pro-Trump energy drink that comes in a can with a picture of Trump in a superhero costume.

GRIFFIN (on camera): The charges against the men, one count each of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering are serious, with maximum sentences up to 20 years each.

Steve Bannon has not pleaded guilty to his charge. The other three men were arrested, posted bail and will be arraigned later.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Very strong report, Drew. Thank you very much. Before President Trump makes his bid for four more years, join Anderson Cooper with your guide to four unconventional days coming up, the Anderson Cooper 360 R.N.C. preview just minutes away coming up live tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right after THE SITUATION ROOM. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:58:10]

BLITZER: Tonight, W. Kamau Bell is back with an all-new episode of "United Shades of America." This week, Kamau visits Miami for a look at life for Venezuelan Americans. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST, UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA: How long have you been driving?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For over -- about four years.

BELL: And what did you do for work in Venezuela?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lawyer. I was a lawyer there. And since then, I've been here battling my case of asylum, but I mean, last year, they got me detained.

BELL: You were in detention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. For a month.

BELL: What was that like?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was -- It was bad. I mean, it was really a kind of experience. I had never been in a jail in my life before. It changed my life the way I see things. Now, I mean, that was during Christmas and New Year.

I mean, that was -- it was really, really bad. You know, mentally they destroy you there. I never want to go there again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A brand new episode of "United Shades of America" premieres later tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. I'll be back in THE SITUATION ROOM tomorrow, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

But before I go, I want to take a moment to remember some of the great people we've lost to coronavirus.

Memphis police officer Bobby Montgomery was a father of three. His commanding officer said Montgomery was seen as a gentle giant, bringing a smile with him on duty. When he passed away from complications of COVID-19, he had just turned 45 years old.

Bryant Anderson was a Fire Captain in Converse, Texas. He had been in the hospital for nearly a month fighting the virus and lost his battle on Tuesday. Captain Anderson received an honor escort from the Fire Department draped in a U.S. flag. He was 45 years old.

Ted Towe had been battling coronavirus since early July, the South Carolina father spent weeks on a ventilator. His wife and three children said they prayed for a miracle until the very end. He was 51 years old.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

[20:00:14]