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The Situation Room
Biden Blasts Trump Over Unrest In America; President Trump Holds White House Press Briefing; Trump To Visit Kenosha Tomorrow Despite Pleas From Officials, Not Planning To Meet Jacob Blake's Family; AstraZeneca Begins Phase 3 Coronavirus Vaccine Trial In U.S.; Interview With Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA). Aired 6-7p ET
Aired August 31, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: The breaking news this hour: We're standing by to see if President Trump takes questions from reporters at a White House news conference, as officials in Wisconsin urged him to cancel his trip to Kenosha.
The mayor there warning that the timing is wrong for a presidential visit, and extending a curfew for the rest of the week. The president is also expected to sound off on a searing speech from Joe Biden, who accused him of rooting for chaos and violence and trying to scare America.
The White House claims the president wasn't trying to incite clashes in Portland when he tweeted praise for his supporters in what later became a deadly confrontation.
Also breaking on the coronavirus pandemic, the United States has now surpassed confirmed six million confirmed cases. More than 183,000 Americans have died from the virus.
Let's get right to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House.
Jeremy, what's the latest?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jim, just hours after we with saw former Vice President Joe Biden specifically condemn the rioting, the looting, some of the violence that we have seen that has sprung out of largely peaceful protests, we an alternate version of reality from President Trump, one in which Joe Biden has not done any of those things.
In fact, the president made his most explicit attempt yet, it seems, to try and tie Joe Biden to these protests and to some of the outbursts of violence that have happened in these cities, saying that it is happening not just in Democratic cities, but in cities run by the Joe Biden party.
Listen to a bit of what the president was saying.
And, Jim, let me just tell you, beyond that, of course, we heard those attacks from the president, but Joe Biden, for his part, he was very clear today in denouncing these attacks. And the president suggested that Joe Biden was instead focused on police and on condemning and on attacking the police.
That is not at all what we heard from Joe Biden. What we did hear from Joe Biden, though, was putting some of this violence at least on the president, saying that it is the president who has fueled this fire.
Listen to Joe Biden earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The fires are burning, and we have a president who fans of the flames, rather than fighting the flames.
But we must not burn. We have to build. This president long ago forfeited any moral leadership in this country. He can't stop the violence, because, for years, he's fomented it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: And, of course, Jim, the irony of all of this is that President Trump and his allies have repeatedly tried to make the case that the images that you're seeing on TV are images of what you would see under a Joe Biden presidency.
But the point that Joe Biden was making today, he was very much flipping the script on the president and pointing out that all of this is happening under Trump's watch, and not just that it is happening under the president's watch, but that the president and his rhetoric, his divisive rhetoric, is at least in part responsible for the violence that we are seeing today -- Jim.
ACOSTA: And we know the president is taking aim at Joe Biden right now. We're going to be monitoring this just to see if the president takes a few questions here in a few moments.
Jeremy Diamond, we know you will stay on top of that. Thanks very much for that.
Let's take a closer look at some of the disturbing and violent clashes between protesters and supporters of President Trump.
CNN's Brian Todd is working that side of the story for us.
Brian, what's the latest?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jim.
Just moments ago, Portland police gave an update on this case. They identified the shooting victim from the shooting on Saturday night in Portland, that victim now identified as 39 year old Aaron Danielson of Portland.
According to the police, citing the medical examiner's office, Danielson died of a gunshot wound to the chest. This incident comes as the tension in Portland and in Kenosha, Wisconsin, very palpable tonight.
In Portland, police really looking for answers and looking for a suspect in that shooting, which came when a group of Trump supporters in a caravan clashed with other protesters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUSTIN DUNLAP, WITNESS: I don't want to hear revving engines. Really, it kind of scares me.
TODD (voice-over): Shooting witness Justin Dunlap seemed to have a sense that trouble was moments away. Seconds later, he was proven right.
(GUNSHOTS)
TODD: Tonight, police are looking for us suspect in this shooting, which occurred Saturday evening in Portland.
The victim who was killed, according to "The New York Times," was wearing a hat with the insignia of a far right group called Patriot Prayer. That group's leader mourned the man's loss in a Facebook posting.
Portland police have now identified the victim as 39-year-old Aaron Danielson. The shooting came during a series of confrontations in downtown Portland on Saturday, which occurred when a group of Trump supporters drove into the city in a large convoy.
Videos posted online showed fights breaking out between people in the pro-Trump convoy and other demonstrators. And the Trump supporters are seen firing paintball pellets and spraying mace from the backs of their vehicles.
Justin Dunlap, the witness who videotaped the shooting, was asked by CNN today what the victim was doing just before being shot.
DUNLAP: He raised his hand, and the mace came forward. I don't know what he had in his hand, if it was McEnany, if it was something else. But that's the direction the mace came from was him. And it was a huge cloud, like 20 feet long, and then the cloud just exploded. And the shots rang out.
[18:05:11]
TODD: Then, Dunlap says, the victim took four steps and fell face down, and two other men, he says, ran in another direction.
Portland's police chief said his force had a strong presence on the streets on Saturday night, but still couldn't get its arms around those confrontations.
CHUCK LOVELL, PORTLAND, OREGON, POLICE CHIEF: We had folks stationed at different areas, but it's very difficult, when you have small groups of people spread throughout the city to sometimes engage in violent acts with each other. We only have limited resources, so we can't be everywhere at the same time.
TODD: President Trump tweeted, "Rest in peace," referring to the Portland shooting victim, but the president so far has said only this about the shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, referring to video of the Blake shooting.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm looking into it very strongly. I will be getting reports. And I will certainly let you know pretty soon. But I will be -- it was not a good sight. I didn't like the sight of it, certainly.
TODD: The Wisconsin Department of Justice and federal officials are investigating the Blake shooting, as protests there have continued.
Seventy-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse faces homicide charges for the shooting deaths of two protesters in Kenosha last week. Tonight, as a curfew again goes into effect in Kenosha County, the sheriff says more than 200 protesters have been arrested there since the Blake shooting, more than half those people, he says, from outside Kenosha.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are people from outside Kenosha.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: President Trump is now taking questions.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
QUESTION: ... not to come to Kenosha tomorrow?
TRUMP: No, because Kenosha was something we did a good job on. The governor didn't want us there. He didn't want the National Guard, as you know. He was very reluctant. But I give him credit because, ultimately, he said yes. And as soon as he said yes, the problem ended.
But I have to see the people that did such a good job for me. And we're meeting with numerous people. And we have tremendous support in the state of Wisconsin. So I promised them, when it all gets taken care of, we'll go.
QUESTION: They expressed concerns though that it could exacerbate tensions and increase violence. Do you give any consideration to that?
D. TRUMP: Well, it could also increase enthusiasm and it could increase love and respect for our country. And that's why I'm going, because they did a fantastic job. As soon as I called and told them, Let's go, the whole problem stopped. That was -- what? -- six days ago.
Yeah, Jeff.
QUESTION: Mr. President, why are you not meeting with the family of Jacob Blake while you're there?
D. TRUMP: Well, I spoke with the pastor. A wonderful man -- the family's pastor. And I thought it would be better not to do anything where there are lawyers involved. They wanted me to speak, but they wanted to have lawyers involved, and I thought that was inappropriate, so I didn't do that. But I did speak with the pastor of the family, who is a fine man, a wonderful man. And I think we had a great talk.
And I may, at some point do that. But they -- they did have a lawyer that wanted to be on the phone, and I said, No, that's inappropriate, but I just gave my best regards. But, again, I spoke with the pastor.
Yeah, please.
QUESTION: I have a question about coronavirus. But first, you were just criticizing Joe Biden, saying he didn't mention the far left or Antifa during his speech today. You said you wanted to talk about left-wing political violence.
D. TRUMP: Yeah.
QUESTION: But I notice you did not mention that your supporters were also in Portland this weekend, firing paintball guns at people, some form of pepper spray. So do you want to also take this chance to condemn what your supporters did in Portland?
D. TRUMP: Well, I understand they had large numbers of people that were supporters, but that was a peaceful protest. And paint is not -- and paint is a defensive mechanism; paint is not bullets.
QUESTION: It's a paintball gun. It's a bullet.
D. TRUMP: Your supporters -- your supporters -- and they are your supporters, indeed -- shot a young gentleman who -- and killed him -- not with paint, but with a bullet. And I think it's disgraceful.
These people, they protested peacefully. They went in very peacefully. And I will tell you what they're protesting: They're protesting, when they turn on television, or read whatever they may be reading, and they see a city like Chicago, where 78 people were shot and 13 died; or a city like New York, where the crime rate has gone through the roof; or a city like Portland, where the entire city is ablaze all the time, and a mayor says, We don't want any help from the federal government.
When these people turn that on and they see that, they say, This is not our country. This is not our country. That was a peaceful protest, totally.
QUESTION: But it was a supporter of yours, Mr. President...
D. TRUMP: OK, go ahead, please.
QUESTION: It was a supporter...
D. TRUMP: Yeah, go ahead, please.
QUESTION: Mr. President...
QUESTION: It was a supporter of yours, Mr. President...
D. TRUMP: Go ahead, please.
QUESTION: Are you going to condemn the...
QUESTION: No, no, it was a supporter of yours, Mr. President...
D. TRUMP: Excuse me?
QUESTION: ... who killed someone, who is accused of killing two people.
D. TRUMP: Excuse me?
QUESTION: It was a supporter of yours. No...
QUESTION: To follow up on what Kaitlan was saying, are you going to condemn the actions of vigilantes like Kyle Rittenhouse?
D. TRUMP: We're looking at all of it. And that was an interesting situation. You saw the same tape as I saw. And he was trying to get away from them, I guess; it looks like. And he fell, and then they very violently attacked him. And it was something that we're looking at right now and it's under investigation.
[18:10:17]
But I guess he was in very big trouble. He would have been -- I -- he probably would have been killed.
QUESTION: But do you think...
D. TRUMP: It's under -- it's under investigation.
QUESTION: Do you think private citizens should be taking guns (inaudible)?
D. TRUMP: I'd like to see law enforcement take care of everything. I think everything should be taken care of -- law enforcement.
But again, we have to give our cops back, our police back their dignity, their respect. They're very talented people. They're strong. They're tough. They can do the job, but we've taken it away. We don't want to have -- when somebody makes a mistake, he chokes, or -- in some cases, you have bad cops, and we have to take care of that.
In other cases, they choke. They're under -- they have a quarter of a second -- a quarter of a second to make a decision, and sometimes they make the wrong decision. If they make the wrong decision -- you know, if they make the wrong decision in the other direction, they're probably dead. So they choke sometimes, and that goes on the evening news for weeks.
And the thousands and tens of thousands of great things they do, nobody covers that. Nobody writes about that. But if they make a mistake... And again, the bad cops -- everybody agrees they have to be very tough on bad cops. But sometimes you have a cop or a police person who is a good -- a good police person, right? Good. But they choke. You know, the timing -- and they go through this, and they study this, and they work on it all the time. They literally have a quarter of a second to make some of these decisions. And they make a wrong decision, and it's very devastating.
But I will say this: I honor law enforcement. We wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for law enforcement. We have to stop this horrible, left-wing ideology that seems to be permeating our country. And basically, it's weakness. It's weakness on behalf of Democrat politicians.
The Republicans, we don't have problems. You take a look at our cities; our cities are doing very well. They're safe. They're secure. I spent a lot of time in Texas, as you know, just a couple of days ago. And I was with the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott. He was explaining they wouldn't put up with it for a minute.
They just don't have the kind of problems that other people have.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
ACOSTA: There you have it.
The president taking just a few questions from reporters, this time taking questions from mainstream reporters, including our Kaitlan Collins, the president there saying, when he makes this visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin, tomorrow, that he's not expected to meet with the family.
He was asked whether or not he's spoken with the family, and he said that the Jacob Blake family wanted to have lawyers involved. WE will have a chance to ask the family about that.
And was also so talking about the situation in Portland over the weekend where some of his supporters, self-proclaimed Trump supporters, were shooting paintballs at people during that volatile situation there in Portland. And he also did not condemn Kyle Rittenhouse, the suspect who is accused of shooting people and killing them following the unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, the president calling that an interesting situation.
And, at one point, he seemed to say that there were people violently attacking Kyle Rittenhouse and that was the reason why Kyle Rittenhouse acted in the way he did, but the president going on to say, it's under investigation.
The other thing that the president talked about was that, in some cases, there are good police officers who choke. Obviously, we will have a chance to dissect all of that.
Want to bring in some of our analysts and experts to talk about some of this.
Nia-Malika Henderson, let me go to you first.
What did you make of the president's comments there about Kyle Rittenhouse? He really got very close to the edge of justifying -- I mean, it sounded like he was justifying what Kyle Rittenhouse did, even though he acknowledged that the matter is still under investigation.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, he did justify what Kyle Rittenhouse did there. He, of course, has been charged with first-degree homicide.
And the president there made it sound like it was all self-defense. This is also kind of a narrative that is floating around in the conservative Twittersphere and conservative talk shows and radio shows as well. Kyle Rittenhouse has become something of a folk hero to conservatives.
And so you see there Donald Trump kind of embracing this same theory of this 17-year-old, who's now accused of murdering two people and an attempted murder on a third. And so, as always, it's not surprising, the president over and over again, if someone is one of his followers, if someone expresses some sort of liking of President Trump, he tends to like them back, whether it's conspiracy theories, anti-semitic conspiracy theories in the sort of QAnon world.
[18:15:10]
He seems to like those people. So, again, this president did what I think people thought he would do. It still is shocking for the president of the United States to get up there and essentially make excuses for someone who has been accused of such a horrendous crime.
It's one thing to sort of say, he doesn't want to comment on it at all. It is a court proceeding. It's an individual who is innocent before proven guilty. And so -- but that is not what he did. He essentially sort of defended him and said that this young man was acting in self-defense.
ACOSTA: David Axelrod, what did you think?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think what was noteworthy, in addition to what the president said in his press briefing, was that this press briefing was ostensibly scheduled around the issue of COVID.
He spent two minutes on COVID, which has killed 183,000 people in this country, and then ripped into a tirade about Joe Biden and the left- wing mobs and Biden being a tool of the left-wing mobs.
And I think it really reflects his strategy in this campaign. He is in a bad position. And he is in a bad position because he is widely perceived as having mishandled this virus, which is an epic tragedy for this country.
The economy is in a hole. He wanted to run on it. It's in a hole right now. He has to change the subject. And this is how he's chosen to change the subject.
I thought Joe Biden did a good job today turning it back on the president. And one of the things he said was, he is not strong enough to challenge his own supporters. Biden said, there's no place for rioting, looting, arson. That is not the way to change.
We did not hear one word today from the president condemning his supporters. He portrayed them as wholesome people expressing themselves. There were a caravan -- there was a caravan a mile long that went into the city of Portland with the intent purpose of creating trouble, and trouble came.
Kyle Rittenhouse went to Kenosha with a semiautomatic weapon. What did people think was going to happen? So, the president of the United States is, in fact, fomenting problems here, which is why the mayor, the governor and the police chief of Kenosha asked him not to come tomorrow.
But he sees this as an event in his political project here, and so he's going to come.
ACOSTA: But, David, is it advantageous for the president to have this conversation sort of on his terms, in his wheelhouse, where he can inflame things in this fashion, as opposed to, as you were just saying a few moments ago, talking about the coronavirus, taking questions on the coronavirus?
He obviously would rather have these press conferences morph into an hour of his grievances and conspiracy theories.
AXELROD: Yes, he would. And the question is how they're received by the American people.
I have no doubt that there's a segment of the Trump base that will, as he said -- going to Kenosha will create enthusiasm, he said, which I thought was an odd choice of words. He thinks there's political advantage in that.
The question is whether the American people see an American president, really, as I said, fomenting problems because he sees political advantage in it -- and it's very transparent -- whether that works to his advantage.
I have been around the politics of race all my life, Jim. I covered it as a reporter. I have seen it as a strategist. I understand that there is potential galvanizing force here behind that message, because race is always right there in American society.
But I also think people want the president of the United States to be a force for calm. The fact of the matter is, this stuff is happening in Donald Trump's America, and he is an irritant, not a cause for peaceful resolution of these problems.
That is a problem for him. And Joe -- what Joe Biden did today in his speech was used a little jujitsu and took the president's negative force and turned it on him. And if he keeps doing that, what the president sees as a potential plus for him could be a big minus.
ACOSTA: And, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, we have to talk about the fact that these coronavirus briefings -- I guess you can't really call them -- it's a misnomer to call them a coronas coronavirus briefing anymore, because the president has turned this into something completely different.
They're just press conferences where he can call on people, and then twist things into an opportunity to deliver his talking points. How much of a disservice is that for people at home who thought the president would be coming out and talking about what is happening in this battle against this deadly virus?
[18:20:01]
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there's already a significant segment, percentage of the population who think we're sort of through this, that the worst of this virus is behind us.
And, in some places, that's the case. But we're still very much needing to take this seriously, not minimizing the testing. There was these reports that came out today that were false saying that only 6 percent of the deaths were actually -- that have been counted were from coronavirus.
They were -- they were sort of conflating these two things. A lot of people who die from coronavirus do have other preexisting conditions, but coronavirus was still the cause of death. Close to 45 percent of the country has preexisting conditions. There are some 200,000 excess deaths this year as compared to last year.
Preexisting conditions were pretty much the same in the population last year as they are this year, so what accounts for the 200,000 excess deaths this year? It's mostly coronavirus.
So, I think there's always the sense that we're trying to minimize this problem. Let's not test. Let's not talk about it. Let's put out information that is factually incorrect about 6 percent, that sort of stuff.
So it's frustrating, because, again, we're still very much in the middle of this, Jim.
ACOSTA: And Kaitlan Collins, I know you're there. You were just in that press conference.
It sounded as though you were trying to ask the president a follow-up question. What happened there?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, I couldn't even really ask him a fully formed question, because, basically, what you saw was, the president came out here and he criticized Joe Biden for his speech earlier, saying that he did not name Antifa, he did not name the far left when he was condemning violence. But then I gave the president the opportunity to condemn his
supporters who were in Portland, the ones, not all of them, of course, but the ones who were firing paintball guns, some kind of pepper spray at people in the streets, as we saw in videos that the president himself retweeted, because, while he was talking about Joe Biden, Jim, he had just said, if you don't name the problem, then you can't solve the problem.
The president refused to condemn his own supporters who were there in Portland firing those paintball guns at people. He said, paint is not the same as killing someone. Obviously, a paintball gun is not going to kill someone. I have fired a paintball gun before, from Alabama.
But saying that that is the excuse, that just because it is not something that is as deadly as what we have seen in other instances, including where someone who is believed to be a Trump supporter was killed, is not saying that you just can't condemn it, and that it's not violence, because that is not a peaceful protest for those Trump supporters to be in a bed of a truck firing that at people while they're driving down the streets of Portland, as we saw in multiple videos by "New York Times" reporters and other reporters who were on the ground this weekend.
And so, of course, that turns the conversation to the person who is a Trump supporter, who is accused of killing two people in other protests last week, and who is now awaiting a court date. And the president did not take the opportunity there.
Instead, he seemed to say that he was arguing that Kyle Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. That's the 17-year-old who has been arrested. And the president, after just criticizing Joe Biden for not calling out the far left, would not condemn his supporters who have also taken violent actions during these escalating tensions that we have seen play out in cities across America.
And, of course, I also had a question about coronavirus, but the president declined to take that, and then left the room after just a few questions.
ACOSTA: Shocker that he didn't take a question the coronavirus.
Daniel Dale, let me ask you.
He took a limited number of questions, so perhaps there's a limited number of fact-checks that you need to do. But, I mean, my sense of it is when he tries to minimize the use of people spraying paintballs at a crowd of protesters, and trying to say that that's a defensive -- I think he used the word defensive at one point -- defensive action the part of his supporters, that doesn't really hold up.
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: That doesn't hold up.
I mean, we saw people in pickup trucks, other vehicles, on video driving along and spraying passerby, people standing there on the sidewalk or on the street. That doesn't seem like peaceful protest. And there was some other stuff too, Jim. I mean, he said the entire city of Portland is ablaze all the time. I'm sure our viewers who are watching in Portland were shouting at their screen saying, that's not true. Of course, there have been fires set in Portland. There has been some violence in protests, but it has tended to be confined to a specific area of a city.
Most Portland residents are simply going about their lives. He also accused Biden of telling what he called a monstrous lie that rioters are peaceful protesters. Biden has condemned rioters and simply correctly pointed out that many of the protests that we have seen, most of the protests that we have seen since the death of George Floyd have been peaceful. So he's made a distinction.
He also said that Biden's speech today was strange, and he specifically criticized him for not naming Antifa. It's true that Biden didn't mention Antifa, this loose collection of anti-fascists.
But Biden issued a broad condemnation of violence, rioting, looting of all kinds. So, yes, he didn't say that word, but it's not like he carved out some sort of exemption for Antifa. This was a broad-based combination of Antifa-like tactics.
[18:25:01]
ACOSTA: That's right. He certainly did. Throughout that speech, we heard the vice president, the former vice president condemn the rioting and looting that we're seeing out on the streets in some of these protests.
All right, all of you, thank you so much for that.
Just ahead, Jacob Blake's father and family attorney will join me here in THE SITUATION ROOM in just a few moments. I will get reaction to what we just heard from the president.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: President Trump is forging ahead with a scheduled visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin tomorrow, despite pleas from the mayor and the governor to stay away.
The president is not expected to visit with the family of Jacob Blake, an unarmed black man whose shooting by police sparked protests across the country.
Let's continue the discussion now with Jacob Blake Sr. and Ben Crump, an attorney for the Blake family.
[18:30:00]
Mr. Blake, I just want to start with you first. How is your son doing? Have you seen him recently? What can you tell us about the progress he is making?
JACOB BLAKE SR. JACOB BLAKE'S FATHER: I saw Jacob yesterday. Let's say progress is limited and highly sedated, but his breathing and his function above the waist seemed to be tapering off and he's holding on for dear life. That's what he's basically doing. He's holding on for dear life.
ACOSTA: Is he getting worse?
BLAKE: No, no. That's the thing that keeps all our hopes alive, is that he's actually from the waist up moving into a better situation. But because of all of the pain and the amount of bullets that moved through him, you know, he's suffering from a lot of the soft tissue, of course, the pain.
ACOSTA: That's just heartbreaking. And I'm sure you heard the president there just a few minutes ago. He says the reason why he hasn't spoken with your family is because that you wanted to have your lawyers involved, I'm assuming that means Mr. Crump, who is also with us, and that the president said that was inappropriate. Let's play that and let me get your reaction to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, why are you not meeting with the family of Jacob Blake while you're there?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I spoke with the pastor, wonderful man, the family's pastor, and I thought it would be better not to do anything where there are lawyers involved. They wanted me to speak but they wanted to have lawyers involved. And I thought that was inappropriate, so I didn't do that.
But I did speak with the pastor of the family, who is a fine main, a wonderful man. And I think we had a great talk. And I may, at some point, you know, do that but they did have a lawyer that wanted to be on the phone. And I said, no, that's inappropriate. But I just gave my best regards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Mr. Blake, what is your reaction to that, the president saying he doesn't want to speak with you because your lawyer has to be on?
BLAKE: First of all, I'm not going to play politics. This is my son's life we're talking about. Second of all, we don't have a family pastor.
ACOSTA: Yes. So what is he talking about there when he says that?
BLAKE: I don't know who he talked to. Furthermore, I don't care who he talked to. If he didn't talk to Benjamin Crump, if Trump didn't talk to Crump, man, there's nothing to talk about, man. There's nothing to talk about. This is not politics. This is about the life of my son. And Benjamin Crump represents my family.
ACOSTA: And, Ben Crump, what is your response to the president? I just don't get that. How is it that the president doesn't want to speak to the family because you want to be on the line? I just don't -- maybe you can help me understand this.
BENJAMIN CRUMP, LEAD ATTORNEY OF JACOB BLAKE AND FAMILY: Yes, it's mind boggling, Jim. And as Mr. Blake said and Ms. Julia, they want our men, my legal team, Atty. Salvi and Atty. Lamarr to be involved in everything that happens, because while they're concentrating on their son's life, they want us to concentrate on the fight for justice.
And when I represented Trayvon Martin's family and President Obama had the call with them, there was not a problem with the family's attorneys being on the phone. We were not saying anything. The clients want to have assurance that their lawyers are helping guide them to this very difficult process.
When Michael Brown was called by the White House in Ferguson, we were on the call. When George Floyd talked with Vice President Biden, we were on the phone call. When Jacob Blake's family, Mr. Blake and Ms. Julia talked to Vice President Biden and Senator Kamala Harris, we were on the phone.
And last I checked, Jim, we have a Department of Justice investigation going on. So it would be most appropriate to have your counsel on the phone when you're talking to anybody involved in the government that would determine whether those individuals will be held accountable for shooting your son seven times in the back in front of your three grandchildren.
ACOSTA: And, Ben, Mr. Blake didn't seem to have any idea who the president is talking about when he talks about this pastor. Are you aware of the White House making any attempts to speak to the family, speak to you, speak to anybody associated with this family?
[18:35:04]
CRUMP: Yes. Ms. Julia Jackson, Jacob's mother, her pastor, Pastor James, and Atty. Salvi was trying to coordinate for the president to call while he was in communication with Ms. Jackson and us, and she was ready to receive the phone call. But for some reason, the call never came and we now understand why. I don't know why the president wouldn't want the family to have their lawyers on the phone. He seems to have lawyers with him when he talks to people.
ACOSTA: And, Mr. Blake, is there anything you would want to say to the president?
CRUMP: I'm not playing politics, no.
BLAKE: I'm worried about my son and we're not dealing with politics.
ACOSTA: But I'm sure you would want to talk about your son and how he's doing perhaps?
CRUMP: It's all about his son.
BLAKE: I'm not getting into politics. It's all about my son, man. It has nothing to do with a photo-op. It has to do with Jacob's operation. ACOSTA: And how are your spirits? How is your family doing? How is everybody holding up, Mr. Blake?
BLAKE: I just put my 20-year-old son in the hospital because he's suffering from depression. And it's saddening to me that people don't understand the type of pressure this family is under and what the rest of the family is dealing with.
ACOSTA: And what are you dealing with? What do you say --
BLAKE: We're dealing with an individual that a couple of months -- a couple of weeks ago was running around with the boys and talking to me on the phone and laughing to an individual that cannot move his legs.
ACOSTA: And, Ben, while we continue to wait.
BLAKE: And I received some threats, and it affected my son.
ACOSTA: You received some threats. Can you tell us about that?
BLAKE: Yes. I don't want to go in detail about it. If you ask my attorney, he'll let you know.
ACOSTA: Ben, what can you tell us? The family is receiving threats?
CRUMP: Yes. We moved hotels and we want for privacy reasons to leave it there because we don't want their identification -- I mean, their location known because we see some sick things happening in Kenosha. And the worst thing could be for this family to suffer any more physical violence with what they're dealing with, with Jacob.
So I understand Mr. Blake making it paramount to make sure his family is protected in their hotel rooms or getting calls with threats. We've got to protect against that, because that is not acceptable.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. I mean, everything has to be done to protect this family. Everything that you're going through right now is just unbelievable.
Ben, let me ask you about this, because we continue to wait for information from the police about what is going on with this investigation. We did hear some serious allegations from the Kenosha Police Association last week. Attorneys for Jacob Blake Jr. appeared on this program Friday. And while they wouldn't say these allegations are false, they seem to suggest that they're overblown. Can you tell us what you know to be true? The police association says that Jacob Blake put one of the officers in a headlock. Did he do that?
CRUMP: There is video that will clear all of this up that will be released. But the video is the key, Jim, because the video doesn't require interpretation. The video is what it is. And it shows that Jacob Blake never posed a threat to those officers. He was always trying to get away from them and you see in the video, he's not posing a threat when he's walking away from them, trying to get into the automobile to get his three little boys out of a volatile situation, and they shoot him seven times in the back. We don't need to accept this -- I don't know -- this justification to say, oh, we have to put it in context. He's going to rush to judgment. Well, when black people are accused of doing something and it was on video, they say, oh, it's on the video. Just look at the video. But when the roles are reversed and the police do something that's bad on video, they want us to not rush to judgment.
[18:40:04]
It's the tale of two justice systems in America where you see what happened to Jacob and what the young white man did when he shot three people, killing two of them, had an assault weapon around his neck, passed self-police officers, several National Guards, nobody shot him in the back, Jim, nobody killed him, and he made it home uninjured. Now, if that is not the tale of two videotapes and the two justice systems that exist in America, I don't know what is.
ACOSTA: Mr. Blake, you wanted to weigh in? What did you want to say, sir?
BLAKE: The two justice systems were in stark contrast of each other right there in front of your eyes. You can see that on video. That white young man got a high-five and some water. My son got seven to the back, hot ones through his back.
He's paralyzed from the waist down. That young man went home to his house in Illinois, Antioch, Illinois. He didn't go home in Kenosha or Racine. He went to another state. My son went to the state of being paralyzed.
It's a stark understanding of the two judicial systems set up in America. There's a white system and a black system. I got my turn and signal on trying to merge it to the left, trying to get over there with you white people.
ACOSTA: Jacob Blake Sr. --
BLAKE: And I know it sounds -- it might sound harsh, but that's -- it's not set up for us.
ACOSTA: Well, I have to tell you, I think what you're saying is extremely important, extremely powerful, and I hope everybody who is watching right now will take some time tonight to think about that.
We do, in fact, appear to have two systems of justice in this country. Why else would this keep happening over and over and over again, as Ben Crump has been on the scene of too many of these situations over the years?
And Mr. Blake, all of our thoughts are with your son and with your family. And I hope for recovery as much as you can. And we hope that those threats stop and we hope you get some peace in your hearts in these coming days. And, Ben Crump, we thank you for your time as well. Thank you, both of you, for joining us. We appreciate it.
CRUMP: Thank you. BLAKE: Thank you.
ACOSTA: All right, thanks.
Just ahead, the FDA commissioner says a coronavirus vaccine might be approved before phase three trials are even finished. Is politics playing a role?
And the nation's top intelligence official now says he won't brief Congress in person on election security. I'll get reaction from a key Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:47:37]
ACOSTA: And breaking news: phase three trials for a new coronavirus vaccine candidate are now under way.
CNN's Dianne Gallagher has the latest.
Dianne, what are you learning?
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim, yet another drugmaker going into the phase three trials for the coronavirus vaccine here in the U.S. AstraZeneca making the announcement this afternoon, saying they're now searching for 30,000 adults to participate. But, look, this comes as more medical professionals fear that the Trump administration may approve a vaccine before it's actually ready.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER (voice-over): There is growing concern political pressure could be rushing the COVID-19 vaccine process after FDA commissioner, Dr. Stephen Hahn, said the agency might consider emergency use authorization or approve even if a vaccine developer applies before phase three trials are complete.
DR. SEEMA YASMIN, FORMER CDC DISEASE DETECTIVE: The problem here is the credibility of the FDA is crumbling before our eyes.
GALLAGHER: Hahn dismissed concerns, telling "The Financial Times," quote: We have a convergence of the COVID-19 pandemic with the political season and we're just going to have to get through that and stick to our core principles.
Over the past two weeks, on average, daily new cases are down about 18 percent and new deaths per day by roughly 11 percent.
That's even as the United States did surpass 6 million confirmed coronavirus cases today.
White House task force member, Dr. Deborah Birx, is urging people to take precautions now, before there's a vaccine. DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Do the
right thing today, because if we do the right thing today, we go into the fall with much fewer cases.
GALLAGHER: And yet, "The Washington Post" reports sources say President Trump's new pandemic adviser, Dr. Scott Atlas, is pushing for the country to drop a herd immunity approach, similar to the strategy used in Sweden, which has one of the highest per capita infection and death rates in the world. Now some on the White House's own task force said this approach would likely cause a massive death toll.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If everyone got infected, the death toll would be enormous and totally unacceptable.
GALLAGHER: Today in Florida, Atlas denied those claims.
DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS ADVISER: The president does not have a strategy like that. I've never advocated that strategy.
GALLAGHER: But President Trump did retweet a false tweet from a QAnon supporter that misrepresented CDC data to claim the death toll was 9,000 instead of the more than 180,000 people that have actually died. That's simply not what the data says at all, so Twitter took down the tweet.
[18:50:01]
REPORTER: Is he trying to downplay the death toll?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No. He was -- he was highlighting new CDC information that came out that was worth noting.
GALLAGHER: College campuses are becoming an example of just how quickly the virus can spread. Cases at colleges and universities have now been reported in at least 36 states.
At SUNY Oneonta, a lesson in exponential spread.
JIM MALATRAS, CHANCELLOR, STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK: We noticed that there was a large party early last week that resulted in several COVID cases. Twenty COVID cases became 105 cases. We stepped in immediately.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER: And in a snippet of an interview with Fox News, President Trump was asked whether he could do it all over again if he would put Dr. Anthony Fauci front and center on the coronavirus task force.
The president noted that he inherited Fauci, that he was already here, and then said that he gets along with him even though they disagree a lot and said every once in a while he comes up with one and I have to say, what in the world are you thinking? And, Jim, of course, from what we know of the inner workings of the coronavirus task force I imagine Dr. Fauci could probably say the same.
ACOSTA: I imagine so.
All right. CNN's Dianne Gallagher, thank you very much for that.
Let's get some expert analysis from the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, Dr. Ashish Jha.
Doctor, thanks so much for doing this.
Let's talk about the British drug maker AstraZeneca saying it has started phase three trials of its coronavirus vaccine in the U.S. That is good news. This is the third vaccine to enter these large scale trials. How significant is that development?
DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: I think it is really significant, Jim. I -- first of all, the more that we have entering these trials and conducting these trials, I think the greater the chances that we are going to have a vaccine that's safe and effective. There has been some talk of using data from other countries.
In general, the tradition has been for the FDA to see data from our own nation. So I'm pleased that this is the direction in which it's moving.
ACOSTA: And the FDA commissioner, I'm sure you've seen this, Dr. Jha, Dr. Steven Hahn, says the FDA could consider authorization for a coronavirus vaccine before phase three trials are over. Is that a good idea?
JHA: Yeah. So, you know, a big part of having people take the vaccine, remember the vaccine, itself, isn't going to save lives. It is vaccinations. It's people feeling comfortable. It's making sure we have enough data to feel comfortable both on the effectiveness and on the safety.
And so, in general, I have been in favor of completing the phase three trials and doing a very expedited review. Obviously, if the data are overwhelming earlier, one could make a case for maybe certain sub groups getting it, but I think it's incredibly important that we finish phase 3 trials and look at the full set of data before we make any determination.
ACOSTA: And Dr. Hahn said the vaccine decision would be based on data not politics. But I'm sure you've seen this. We've seen the influence of politics throughout this pandemic, how the administration has responded to it, pressure put on public health experts, and the administration, and so on.
How can we ensure we're getting quality, science-based information if there is this sense out there that there is being -- you know, there's pressure being placed on decision makers like Dr. Hahn?
JHA: Yeah, so, the good news is that the great scientists of the FDA are still there. And my take has been that we need to hear from them directly and we need to see all of the data that they make their decisions on openly and transparently.
Unfortunately, both in the hydroxychloroquine decision and in the convalescent plasma decision, there was no doubt that political pressure overrode scientific principles. And I think Dr. Hahn may want to recuse himself from the next decision and turn it over to the scientists or certainly be much more transparent and resist pressure from political leaders. This has to ultimately be based on science, and can't be based on political timelines.
ACOSTA: And I'm sure you've seen this, Dr. Scott Atlas, the new White House pandemic adviser, he's distancing himself from these reports that he is a proponent of herd immunity.
How troubling though is it to hear these reports of somebody advising the president floating this kind of idea?
JHA: Yeah, you know, this idea of herd immunity gets thrown around by a lot of people who don't understand infectious disease, don't understand pandemics. In order for us to have herd immunity in our country with -- from this virus, we're probably talking about hundreds of thousands more Americans dying, millions more getting infected.
It's an unacceptable outcome and an unnecessary one. So, to me, it's really troubling. It's not the strategy we've used with almost any infectious disease. I don't think it would work here but it would cause enormous suffering and death.
ACOSTA: Sounds like we need herd intelligence on all of this.
Dr. Ashish Jha, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
President Trump is supporting the decision by his director of national intelligence to end in-person briefings for Congress on foreign interference in the U.S. election, promising written reports instead.
[18:55:09]
Let's -- let's go quickly to Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. He serves on the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees.
Congressman Swalwell, what are the disadvantages of a written briefing? The White House says, hey, why can't we just give you a written briefing? Why does not work for you?
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): The president is depriving the American people of the Russians who are trying to again take their vote, take their voice. The president, Jim, cannot win without Russian help. He is not going to run on the work he's done to stop COVID with the 180,000 dead. He is not going to run with bringing this country together with people dying every day in the streets from violence that he's inspired. He is not going to run on the jobs he has brought back since COVID has struck.
And so, he has to send green lights to Vladimir Putin to interfere in our elections. And so, what we must do with the majority in the House is continue to press for the public to know what's going on. ACOSTA: And the Trump administration, I'm sure you saw this,
Congressman Swalwell, so we'll get your reaction, they are blaming what they're saying are leaks from previous briefings and that this is the reason why they have to clamp down on these briefings. What do you say to that?
SWALWELL: Well, I don't support any leaks but I haven't seen any leak beyond what the DNI, director of national intelligence put out two weeks ago, which is that Russia is the only country in the whole world that has a preference for Donald Trump and is trying to help him, is trying to take down Joe Biden, and, by the way, as you know, Jim, has a prior.
And so, look, the president can welcome foreign interference, sabotage the mail, conveying misinformation, and continue to inspire violence in the streets, but the American people know who is responsible for the mismanagement of COVID and the economy, and I don't think this is going to get in the way. But we, again, have to make sure our intelligence community is able to stop what Russia is doing despite having no leadership or directives from the president.
ACOSTA: And a federal appeals court today, this was a significant development, they ruled today that the House Judiciary Committee, the committee that you sit on, cannot force the former White House counsel Don McGahn to testify about President Trump.
It seems as though you've been chasing Don McGahn for sometime now. It may feel like longer than the president has been in office.
What's your response to that decision?
SWALWELL: And just so your viewers know, Don McGahn told Bob Mueller that the president asked him to lie about what happened with, you know, the Russia investigation.
Jim, this same court a couple weeks ago also ruled that we are not able to get FBI materials relating to the Mueller investigation. They were later overruled by the full circuit court of appeals. We believe the same is going to happen here.
ACOSTA: And so, do you think at some point you might ultimately get Don McGahn to testify? And what would you want to ask him if you were to get him in front of a committee?
SWALWELL: We do, but it'll probably be when Donald Trump is an ex- president. But there's still a lot to learn about how this president has taken a wrecking ball to the rule of law.
And the best thing we can do under the leadership of Chairman Schiff who is already starting to think about issues like this is to put forward a package of post-Watergate like reforms so that no president can be above the law. And that would be largely some of the work we'd do early in the next Congress.
ACOSTA: And could a positive ruling on the McGahn matter lead to other witnesses that you'd like to bring in? I mean, is it just Don McGahn that you want to have testify? Do you still want to go back and talk to people who are involved in some of these scandals that plague this administration?
SWALWELL: You know, Jim, right now, it's really about doing what we can to inspire, you know, to turn out and vote out a corrupt president. We don't imagine we'd get a decision before the presidency ends.
But the country will be owed I believe a presidential crimes commission to look at the crimes committed by this administration and a Congress in a bipartisan way that will put back together so much that has been exposed by this president so that no commander-in-chief ever again is able to act in such a lawless way.
ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it.
SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: We want to take a moment to remember some of the lives lost during the coronavirus pandemic.
Cesar Morales of New York was 89 years old. Born in the Dominican Republic, Cesar moved to the United States in 1967. His family tells us he was a proud patriarch who will be deeply missed by his children, grandchildren, and great children.
Bettie Mae Lassiter of Maryland was 84 years old. She was a short order cook who loved making her customers laugh and smile. Bettie's daughter tells us she was an awesome mom who worked hard to raise seven children. And may they rest in peace and all of the people who have succumbed to this terrible virus, may they rest in peace as well.
I'm Jim Acosta. Thank you very much for watching.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
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