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The Situation Room
Awaiting Trump Q-and-A at WH Briefing as he Angrily Denies Calling U.S. War Dead "Losers" and "Suckers"; Trump Mocks Biden for Wearing a Mask; New Trump Adviser: Measuring U.S. Virus Deaths against other Countries "Not A Valid Comparison."; Jacob Blake Appears From Hospital Bed For The First Court Appearance; Wisconsin Attorney General On Jacob Blake Shooting Investigation; Multiple Potential Vaccines In Critical Phase 3 Trial. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 04, 2020 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:15]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Jim Acosta.
This is a SITUATION ROOM Special Report. And we're following breaking news. We're standing by to see if President Trump takes questions at a White House briefing that's about to begin.
It comes as the president is doing some damage control after a bombshell report in "The Atlantic" which says Mr. Trump has made repeated disparaging remarks about service members who were wounded or killed including calling those who died in battle "losers" and "suckers."
Joe Biden whose late son served in the military just responded to the report. The Democratic presidential nominee says if it's true, the president needs to humbly apologize to every Gold Star mother and father.
We're also following breaking pandemic news. The U.S. death toll has surpassed 187,000 people. But an influential University of Washington model is now forecasting that number will more than double to 410,000 dead by January 1st.
Let's begin at the White House with CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, these alleged remarks by the president are just one of the bombshells in this reporting by "The Atlantic."
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, Jim, the president is furious over that report. And it's obvious in the way that you've seen the number of current former -- current and former White House aides come forward to deny that the president made these comments or that he holds these sentiments about the military. But what's also notable as you're seeing who is coming forward is who isn't. The number of senior military leaders we have not heard comment on this article since it was released last night and even the staff who served the president at the time who have not said a word either, including the former Chief of Staff John Kelly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS (voice-over): Tonight, President Trump is forcefully denying a report that he referred to fallen soldiers as "losers" and "suckers" and questioned why anyone would volunteer to serve in the military.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was a totally fake story. And that was confirmed by many people who were actually there.
COLLINS (voice-over): His defense in the Oval Office today comes after he angrily denied the report last night while shouting over the engines of Air Force One.
TRUMP: For somebody to say the things that they say I said is a total lie. It's fake news. It's a disgrace.
COLLINS (voice-over): Citing four unnamed sources, "The Atlantic" claims that Trump canceled a planned visit to a Paris cemetery where American soldiers killed in World War I are buried because he didn't care about honoring the war dead, asking senior staff why should I go to that cemetery, it's filled with losers. Trump insisted the trip was scrapped because of weather.
TRUMP: The helicopter could not fly. The reason it couldn't fly because it was raining about as hard as I've ever seen. And on top of that it was very, very foggy.
COLLINS (voice-over): The president said he called his wife Melania to express his displeasure about not being able to attend. Though the first lady was on the trip with him. The article also claims that when John McCain died, Trump said, quote, "We're not going to support that loser's funeral," and demanded to know why they had lowered the flags for an effing loser.
Trump denied that claim, Thursday night.
TRUMP: I disagreed with John McCain but I still respected him. And I had to approve his funeral as president.
COLLINS (voice-over): But the president did not acknowledge that it took him two days to lower the flags after McCain died or how he attacked him publicly for years.
TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. OK?
COLLINS (voice-over): "The Atlantic" report also claims Trump asked staff not to include wounded veterans at an event because he feared people would feel uncomfortable. Reportedly saying, quote, "nobody wants to see that."
The pushback from Trump's allies has been sharp and several aides who traveled with him to Paris said it isn't true, including his former press secretary and other top staffers.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It is absolutely damnable. It is a disgrace. COLLINS (voice-over): Earlier today, an angry Joe Biden denounced President Trump over the reported comments.
BIDEN: If these statements aren't true, the president should humbly apologize to every Gold Star mother and father and every Blue Star family that he's denigrated and insulted. Who the heck does he think he is?
COLLINS (voice-over): Biden's son Beau served in Iraq.
BIDEN: -- won the Bronze Star and other commendations. He wasn't a sucker.
COLLINS (voice-over): And at times today he became emotional.
BIDEN: If it's true, based on all things he said, I believe the article is true. I'd ask you all the rhetorical question. How do you feel? How would you feel if you had a kid in Afghanistan right now?
COLLINS (voice-over): During a rally at an airport hangar in Pennsylvania last night, the president mocked Biden for wearing a mask so often.
[17:05:01]
TRUMP: Did you ever see a man that likes the mask as much as him?
COLLINS (voice-over): Biden responded today.
BIDEN: It's hard to respond to something so idiotic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Now, Jim, there is one person at the Pentagon that we have heard from today. And that's the Defense Secretary Mark Esper who didn't offer a denial of the story but did offer a defense of President Trump, saying in a statement that the president "has the highest respect and admiration for our nation's military members, veterans and families. That is why he has fought for greater pay and more funding for our armed forces."
Esper was on that trip in November 2018 in Paris in a different role. And one person we haven't heard from is the defense secretary at the time, Jim Mattis, who of course later resigned in protest. Jim?
ACOSTA: All right, CNN's Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much.
Now more on the breaking pandemic news. CNN's Nick Watt has the latest from Los Angeles.
Nick, the model often cited by the White House projects 223,000 more American COVID deaths by the end of the year. Just stunning.
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is, Jim. And on that subject, Dr. Scott Atlas, who is one of the president's newest coronavirus advisers, he's been speaking with the BBC and he says that it is unfair to compare the death toll in this country with other countries. He says, you've really got to look at something called excess mortality. And by that metric he claims the U.S. is doing much better than Europe.
I'm just going to give you one fact and you can slice it whichever way you please. The U.S. is home to just over 4 percent of the world's population. But just over 23 percent of the world's confirmed COVID-19 deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WATT (voice-over): There is COVID fatigue across the country including Pennsylvania avenue.
TRUMP: We're rounding the curve.
WATT (voice-over): But the worst could still be to come. Another 220,000 plus Americans could be killed by this virus by January 1st according to one well known model, which ominously has underestimated death tolls in the past. They now say 410,000 total by the end of the year.
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, EPIDEMIOLOGIST: They also tell us that from that 410,000 number, if we were to ease our behaviors, that number goes up to nearly 620,000 deaths.
WATT (voice-over): But if masks were mandated across the country, they say we would save more than 120,000 lives. Yet, the president mocks Joe Biden for wearing one.
TRUMP: It gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist.
(LAUGHTER)
Right?
WATT (voice-over): He won't mandate them. Neither will Georgia's governor.
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): I personally don't believe a statewide mask mandate is the way to go.
WATT (voice-over): Or Missouri's governor.
HEIDI LUCAS, STATE DIRECTOR, MISSOURI NURSES ASSOCIATION: We implore him to listen to the healthcare workers in the state of Missouri and order a statewide mask mandate. We're the show me state, but we're really what would be a better name for us is the make me state.
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Imagine if there's a vaccine that's available today that can reduce your risk of getting coronavirus by five times. That can save 100,000 lives by the end of the year. We would all want that.
WATT (voice-over): Early results from a potential Russian vaccine show it did trigger an immune response and only mild side effects. But scientists say more trials are needed. Meanwhile, the president says he just spoke to drug maker Pfizer. And?
TRUMP: I think the vaccines are going to be announced very soon.
WATT (voice-over): He is hinting at a pre-election October surprise. But here's his own vaccine chief.
MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: There is a very, very low chance that the trials that are running as we speak could read before the end of October.
WATT (voice-over): He just told Science Magazine I would immediately resign if there is undue interference in this process.
Now, our immediate hurdle, the long Labor Day weekend. The stay safe message targeted at the young.
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): All of us when we were your age thought we were invincible. You can't pass this on.
WATT (voice-over): And you can get very sick. 31-year-old Jenny Ruelas caught COVID, lost her father to the virus.
JENNY RUELAS, CORONAVIRUS SURVIVOR: He was in a lot of pain. And that's the face I'll never forget.
WATT (voice-over): She no longer tests positive, but still struggles to breathe.
RUELAS: I have to walk around with an oxygen can.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT (voice-over): Now, remember back in July when the My Pillow guy was touting oleandrin, this plant exact as a COVID cure? He's close with the president. They met, they talked about it. This -- Mike Lindell claims the president was, quote, "enthusiastic."
Well, Jim, the FDA has just rejected the application to use oleandrin as a dietary supplement. They say that they had significant concerns surrounding its safety. Jim?
ACOSTA: All right, good to know that. CNN's Nick Watt, thank you very much for that.
Let's get more on the bombshell report the president is furious about.
[17:10:02]
Joining us now is a former Defense Secretary William Cohen. Secretary Cohen, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it. What is your reaction to this report from "The Atlantic" that among other things the president called fallen U.S. soldiers "losers" and "suckers?" I suppose your time at the Pentagon you never heard anything like this.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: No. And I never heard language coming out of the president of the United States that I've heard from this president. I thought it was really curious today where he would like to have his psychiatrist examine Joe Biden for why he wants to wear a mask. I would say, Mr. President, you first.
Let's have a psychiatrist examine you as to why you won't. And I think that we'll go from there. The problem is that what Joe Biden is trying to do is to save lives by wearing a mask. It's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. It's a sign of confidence. And the notion that you wouldn't wear a mask because you therefore are projecting that you are a man and manly, I think is preposterous that people are going to die as a result of that kind of symbolism. And, in fact, he has said I'm a wartime president. If that's the case and you've got 180,000 plus people who have died on your watch, it doesn't make you a very successful commander in chief.
But getting back to your point about what I think about it. What I know, I can't say that I know the truth of what is alleged in that article. What I believe is that it is because I've seen the kind of language he has used in the past. He tends to mock many people. He's mocking Joe Biden for wearing a mask. He mocked a disabled reporter because of a disability, and he mocked him publicly at one of his demonstrations. So, the notion that he would privately say something that was critical of our men and women in military doesn't surprise me at all.
And when he undercuts our U.S. Intelligence Community, that affects our military. That affects our security. And so, the notion that he would take a knee. He's criticizing Colin Kaepernick all these past couple years for taking a knee for equal justice. And then he goes over and takes a knee in Helsinki with President Putin.
And then he undercuts our Intelligence Community by saying don't bring me any bad news, don't bring me any news that is critical of President Putin. So, I would say I don't know the truth of the allegations. They are completely consistent with his past behavior.
And in the book "A Very Stable Genius" is another example where he went to the tank over at the Pentagon, a secure room where the joint chiefs meet, and he walked in and basically it's reported that he said that they're a bunch of babies or sissies, or he wouldn't go to war with them. I was astonished to read that. And I think if that is true, let's call the people who are in that room and ask his crew, and ask the president to say what he would say under oath if he never made those comments.
ACOSTA: And Secretary -
COHEN: We can get the truth perhaps.
ACOSTA: Secretary Cohen, the president is about to have a press conference. What should he say?
COHEN: Well, he should say let's talk about the truth. I may have said these things. If I did, I don't remember them, which would be a lie, in my opinion, but he at least would say I apologize to anybody who believes that I would say something like that. But I don't expect that. I think he'll come out and blast the report, say it's all untrue. Once again say it's fake or a hoax as he did about the coronavirus. So, I don't expect much.
What I want is a president who will project make America honorable again. Make it honest again. Make it admired again. And make it support its military and all aspects of our national security and community. That's what I would ask the president to say going forward today, tomorrow, and into the election.
ACOSTA: And Secretary Cohen, the president, as you know, is forcefully denying these comments. As you said, he may do that again here in a couple of minutes. But we know he has publicly referred to the at least one American war hero as a loser in the past. And that was the late Senator John McCain. I know you were very close to Senator McCain both professionally and personally. You were even in his wedding. This type of criticism is not unheard of from this president.
COHEN: It's one of the reasons why I felt I could never vote for President Trump or Trump as president because of what he said about John McCain, he's not a hero because he was shot down, he was captured? What message does that say to all of the young brave men and women who go and their families who go into the service for our country and willing to shed blood, leave their bodies on the battlefield and say if you get caught, you're really not much of a hero. If you get shot, well, you know you're pretty incompetent.
John McCain suffered for five and a half years. He was tortured almost daily. And when the time came they tried to make a deal with him because they were getting bombarded by the fleet that was commanded by his father. McCain said I don't make those kinds of deal. So, I don't make a deal just to say I have a deal and walk out of here ahead of my time.
[17:15:02]
And so, he stayed longer, took more punishment, took more beatings so he could walk out with his head held high that he didn't compromise his fellow POWs. And by the way, with John McCain's leadership, he helped keep some of those POWs alive. His fellow colleagues who were locked in there, they stayed alive because of his spirit and the way he lifted their morale and said we're going to get through this.
So, yes, I look at that and say that's not a commander in chief that I respect. He's not a commander in chief who believes in truthfulness, who believes in openness, who believes in shedding light on a particular subject but simply what he does is he pardons his friends and he punishes his enemies.
And I want a president who again stands for honesty and honor for truthfulness and for the integrity this country really represents to the world. And when I travel around the world, I find many people, many leaders looking to me saying what has happened to your country? How did you ever descend from where you've been to where you are now in terms of having a leader who represents all of the characteristics that we like to see in the president of the most powerful nation in the world?
And so, they are astonished. They are no longer in awe of us. They no longer admire us to the same degree. And they are hoping that there will be a change in the future, as am I.
ACOSTA: All right. Former Defense Secretary William Cohen, I don't know if I've ever seen you this passionate on a subject before. This obviously struck a chord within a lot of people in the military community. Thank you for joining us this evening. Secretary Cohen, we appreciate it. Good talking to you, sir.
And the breaking news continues. Next, we'll get more on the dire new forecast of 410,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths by year's end. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is standing by. We'll also be joined by Dr. Anthony Fauci to talk about all of the breaking pandemic news as our CNN SITUATION ROOM Special Report continues. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:21:19]
ACOSTA: We're getting details of remarks just made by the newest adviser to the White House Coronavirus Task Force. Let's dig deeper with CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, I want to ask you about these questions from one of the new task force members, Dr. Scott Atlas. He's been somewhat controversial so far. He says it's not valid to compare the death toll here in the U.S. to Europe. Clearly, there are differences between countries. But is it fair to make the comparison?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, I think it's fair to make the comparison. I heard these comments, Jim, by Dr. Atlas. I wasn't entirely sure what he was driving at. He seemed to say, look, excess mortality in the United States is comparable or even higher than in Europe.
Excess mortality is a metric sort of used to compare this year compared to last year. For example, in the United States they say it's 200,000 excess deaths. Roughly, I mean, the number varies a little bit. But many of those are attributable to COVID. That's the big change in the population between this year and last year's COVID. So that's where those excess deaths come from.
But let me show you a couple graphs, Jim, because he brought it up comparing the United States and Europe. You can sort of see the trajectory of how things have sort of changed over the you know since really the beginning of this pandemic. And you know for a while, this hit the United States a little later than Europe. But I think these graphs tell a story. That's why we put them up there. That is the overall number of people who have been confirmed to have the infection.
We also can show you here the sort of the number of people who died per million and how that's changed over time. Again, going back to April is pretty similar and perhaps that's what Dr. Atlas was referring to. But clearly, we have not had the same sort of rebound as they have. They've really brought those numbers down, Jim.
ACOSTA: And Dr. Atlas also criticized experts who warn of a second wave saying no one knows if there will be a second wave. We have been in the middle of a resurgence of the first wave for weeks now. What do you make of his comments on that?
GUPTA: Well, you know, the idea of that second wave I think the terminology is something that sort of comes from 100 years ago -- 102 years ago with the 1918 flu. Because at that point if you looked at the overall pandemic, you saw these distinct waves in the United States and other places around the world.
We're not seeing that here, I guess, to your point, Jim. I think part of the reason, there's not really been a second wave is that we haven't gotten out of the first wave. And I got to tell you, even now it really seems like we've sort of plateaued at around 40,000 new infections per day and about you know average about a thousand deaths per day.
So, I think that that's what they're sort of referring to. But you know we - this - we may be looking at a very small part of the overall slope. We may be going like this and still is an upward trajectory or it may be coming down overall. We don't know. But right now, things have sort of leveled out at a very high number. 40,000 infections per day is not where anybody would want to be.
ACOSTA: Right. And a new university of Washington model we've been talking about this throughout the day, projects the death toll could tip past 400,000 by January 2021. That is a scary number, Sanjay. We know that these projections have fluctuated from time to time. But that number, I mean, it would almost accelerate, I would think, you know after where we are right now to get to that kind of number. That's incredible.
GUPTA: Yes. It's really sobering, Jim. I saw that about 4:00 this morning. And boy, what a wake-up call you know that was to see those projections. But you're right, it would accelerate, right, because you see by December that's a model that projects that 3,000 people would be dying per day in December.
And you know if you dig into the model and try to understand it, really, they're basing it on a few things. They think mask usage sort of reached this peak in early August and they think it's coming down.
[17:25:06]
Many places around the country think, hey, COVID is over. That's in the rear-view mirror, it's not. And as a result, you know there's a lot of fatigue out there around this. And in addition to that, schools are starting that going in the fall and early winter you are going to see people starting to go back home. And that could be accounting for these numbers.
Jim, I want to show you this graph really quick just to give you an idea of how accurate or not, the model has been - all models are - are wrong usually, but some are useful as is this one.
Back in July, you can tell how many projected deaths there were according to the model. And you can see that they were far more actually at that point. As we've gotten here to October, they projected 180,000 deaths by October. And, Jim, as you know, we're still in early September and there's already 187,000 people sadly who have died. So, these models, as sobering as they are, may be underestimating a little bit of this which --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Right. We keep surpassing these models.
GUPTA: -- saying out loud. Yes, we keep surpassing these models. And you know and I think people look at the model and they say that's awful. I can't believe we're going to get to that point. I remember talking to you. I don't know if you remember back in March. At that point, that same model projected 60,000 deaths by August 4th. There's 155,000 people who had died by that point.
So, you know we'll see. I am hoping that the new advances in testing, perhaps some new therapeutics and obviously everyone's talking about the vaccine. I hope things like that make a difference. But Jim, it is within our power still, our own individual behavior to bring that -- those numbers down. Mask wearing, physical distancing, still important.
ACOSTA: All right. And I remember that conversation well and share your hope that we can get a handle on this. It hasn't happened yet, but Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much for running through the numbers for us.
Coming up, as the investigation of the police shooting of Jacob Blake continues, Blake appears at a court hearing via live stream from his hospital bed. We'll ask Wisconsin's attorney general about the investigation later.
We go one on one with Dr. Anthony Fauci. This is a CNN SITUATION ROOM Special Report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:32:04]
ACOSTA: We're waiting new details about the investigation into the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Let's go to CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, Jacob Blake remains hospitalized. He's paralyzed in the hospital right now. But today he had a court appearance, what are you learning?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and it was the first time that we got to see Jacob Blake since we saw that video of him being shot by the officer. He had a court appearance for a previous domestic case. This is the case where Jacob Blake was -- is the reason why that Jacob Blake was shackled to his hospital bed. You'll recall that there was a warrant for his arrest regarding this case. And, of course, he was shackled to the bed.
And then just in the last week, the sheriff's office removed those shackles. So it is for that case that he was in court today. He did it from his hospital bed. We can see he was wearing a blue shirt, a tie. The case is going to continue and he'll be appearing again in September and of course he did this from the hospital bed.
This is all behind -- you know, as we are waiting to learn more information from investigators here on the shooting, the Attorney General, as you recall, told Wolf Blitzer, the Attorney General of the United States, William Barr, told Wolf Blitzer seemed to indicate that perhaps there was justification here for the reasons -- for the officers in shooting Mr. Blake saying that Blake was armed and that he was in the midst of committing a felony. We have yet to learn from the state Attorney General of their findings on the investigation.
The key question here, obviously, is the knife. Was it used in any threatening way? The family disputes that, Blake's family disputes that. They say that the Attorney General Bill Barr was misinformed. And so we wait, we wait for more information as we're approaching two weeks. Sunday will be two weeks since this happened. And as we await for that the Attorney General here in the state has up to 30 days to issue his report, Jim.
ACOSTA: Seems to be a long wait. All right, Shimon Prokupecz, we know you'll stay on top of it. Thanks for that.
With us now is the Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul. He's handling the investigation into the Blake shooting and before taking office, his primary practice was election law. And perhaps we'll get into some of that as well. First of all, Mr. Attorney General, can you give us an update on where this investigation stands? There is a sense and, perhaps, it's a misnomer, but there's a sense that it's taking a while to get to the bottom of this.
JOSH KAUL (D), WISCONSIN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, first, Jim, thanks for having me. What I can tell you is that this investigation is moving along very quickly. Our office, the Wisconsin Department of Justice comes in in some cases where there's an officer involved shooting to be an independent agency conducting an independent review of the facts so that the agency for which the officer who use their service weapon works is not part of the investigation.
[17:35:02]
That's what we're doing here. There have been over 80 witness interviews conducted, over 100 pieces of evidence collected. And we're going to continue moving quickly with this investigation, but we're only going to do so to the extent that that's consistent with making sure that we have a full accounting of the facts of our investigation.
ACOSTA: And I understand you're reviewing dozens of videos. The Blake family attorney Benjamin Crump says there is video evidence that will clear all of these up, in his words. Have you seen video evidence that clearly shows how this incident unfolded?
KAUL: You know, like everybody, I have seen the video that went viral. There were over 20 videos that were collected, but a lot of those are dashcam videos. And the fact that a video was collected doesn't mean that it contains relevant evidence, but it does mean that our investigators need to collect it and review it to see if there's relevant evidence. So that process is still ongoing and our goal ultimately is to get its clearer picture of the facts here as we can and present that to the prosecutor so that a decision can be made. So that if charges are not brought, it's as clear as possible to the public why that's the case. And if charges are brought, the case is as strong as possible for the prosecution to proceed.
ACOSTA: And the Attorney General Bill Barr told our colleague Wolf Blitzer earlier this week on this program, that Blake was armed and in the middle of committing a felony when he was shot by police, Blake's attorneys dispute that. But the Attorney General's comments obviously caught all of us by -- surprise them what was Blake armed when he was shot in the back by police?
KAUL: There have been a variety of comments made. As you mentioned, the Attorney General as well as Mr. Crump have made statements about the fact of the case. We are going to be disclosing facts as we think is appropriate to protect the integrity of the investigation. This isn't a case that we are getting involved with to litigate in the media. We are working on establishing the facts so that when the prosecutor reviews the evidence, the prosecutor has as much evidence as possible for that decision. And so if this case goes before a jury, the jury makes the key fact findings in this case.
ACOSTA: I understand that but you understand that a lot is being said in the press right now. For example, have you seen any evidence to support the Kenosha police union claim that Blake was holding a knife?
KAUL: Well, again, our role is not going to be to get into a public dispute between various parties about what the facts of this case are. Our goal is to investigate this case as fully and thoroughly as possible, and to do everything and to seek adjust outcome in this case. That's what we're going to stick for this --
ACOSTA: Would it jeopardize the case, though, to say one way or the other, whether or not he was holding a knife?
KAUL: There are a couple of things that impact what we can release to the public. One is, to the extent that there are facts that may be disputed. It's not our role of the investigators to try to publicly resolve those disputes. That's the type of dispute that should be assessed by the prosecutor when the charging decision is made. And then secondly, by a jury if a case does go forward.
The other thing, and this has impacted some of the timing of the information we've released, is that if there are certain witnesses who need to be interviewed, we don't want to put information out there that might impact the statements that those witnesses are going to be making to law enforcement.
ACOSTA: And does the Attorney General's claims, you know, in his comments, do they jeopardize this case? Do they make this investigation more difficult? Did he make your job tougher this week?
KAUL: I think people should just ignore those comments. We're going to be releasing information as it's appropriate to do so consistently protecting the integrity of the investigation, regardless of what the Attorney General or anybody else says about the facts of the case.
ACOSTA: All right, Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul, thank you so much for that. We appreciate it. Great talking to you, sir. Have a good weekend.
KAUL: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: Coming up, Russia's controversial claim that they have a successful coronavirus vaccine, get some backup in a major medical journal. I'll talk about all of that. And all the breaking pandemic news with Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's joining us live in about half an hour from now. He's standing by and we'll talk to him soon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:43:50]
ACOSTA: There are now multiple potential coronavirus vaccines that have entered the critical phase 3 trial. CNN's Brian Todd joins us with a closer look at what that means. Brian, this involves tens of thousands volunteers.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim, it does involve that many people. And as we've been reporting, there's a lot of political pressure to bear on those conducting the vaccine trials and those approving them. So we decided to take a deeper dive into what phase 3 is really like.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAWN BAKER, WTOC ANCHOR: -- I'm Dawn Baker, we have breaking news --
TODD (voice-over): Dawn Baker, a TV news anchor in Savannah, Georgia could be the Neil Armstrong of the coronavirus vaccine. This summer, Baker became the first person in the U.S. to take part in a phase 3 clinical trial for a vaccine against COVID-19. She was asked by CNN's Elizabeth Cohen, how it felt.
BAKER: Is very exciting. I'm very anxious about it. I just hope that they're really, really good results. I know a lot of people are doing a lot of different vaccine trials and things are going on but I feel so proud.
TODD (voice-over): Baker is participating in the phase 3 trial for the vaccine being developed by a company called Moderna and the National Institutes of Health. Two other companies, AstraZeneca and Pfizer, BioNTech are also in phase 3, along with a few other companies worldwide.
[17:45:05]
DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER: Phase 3 is clearly the most important trial. It's the only way you can tell whether or not a vaccine is effective. And it's really the only way you can tell whether it's safe in tens of thousands of people. TODD (voice-over): Phase 1 involves a small group of people, usually less than 100. Its purpose is to evaluate a vaccines safety and identify side effects. Phase 2 tested in a larger group, usually between 100 and several hundred. Its purpose is to determine the vaccines basic effectiveness and dosage. Phase 3 is even more critical, experts say, because it tests an even larger group, often between 10,000 and 60,000 and observes how people respond to it in real life conditions.
OFFIT Let's say you give 20,000 people to vaccine and then 10,000 people with placebo like salt water, then you wait to see what happens, and people start to get sick. So now let's say that 150 people have gotten COVID-19 in the placebo group, but only five have gotten COVID-19 in the vaccine group that. That's a statistically significant robust observation that the vaccine works to protect against COVID-19.
TODD (voice-over): As for what vaccine volunteers go through, experts say in a phase 3 trial, they're tested before they get their first dose of the vaccine to see if they've got the virus or antibodies of the virus, then they're given their first dose. They get their second dose about a month later and are constantly monitored the whole time with blood tests, nasal swabs and other means. Experts say they can get side effects during the process as occurred during phases 1 and 2 of the coronavirus vaccine trials.
OFFIT: People can get fever and they can get symptoms associated with fever like headaches, muscle aches, chills.
TODD (voice-over): But Dr. Paul Offit says, so far no serious side effects have been observed with the coronavirus vaccines up to this point in phase 3. One problem that has cropped up with phase 3, according to a trade group representing the companies conducting it, they haven't been able to recruit enough members of minority communities who've been hit especially hard by the virus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that some communities have some resistance and some lack of trust to biomedical research. But if we really want to see a future that doesn't have the health disparities that we witness today, then we all have to make sure that all of our communities are involved in the research process.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Now, experts say it is important that people do trust this vaccine when it's deployed on a wide scale, but that they don't get the idea that this is some kind of magic bullet. Dr. Paul Offit says even when the deployment -- when the vaccine is deployed on a wide scale, we're still going to have to take hygienic measures like mask wearing and hand washing and social distancing. Maybe for a year, a year and a half, even after the vaccine is deployed. Jim?
ACOSTA: Important information. All right, CNN's Brian Todd, thank you for that.
Coming up, a major medical journal backs up Russia's controversial claim of a successful coronavirus vaccine. I'll ask Dr. Anthony Fauci about all of today's breaking pandemic news. He's standing by to join us live. Stay with us.
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ACOSTA: -- is taking questions now, let's tune in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- for stimulus checks.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, what about it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that correct? You're waiting for Congress?
TRUMP: Well, I am. You know, there's a theory that I can do it without the approval, but I'd rather get the approval so that we have it. But there's a theory I could take the 300 billion, it's money that we have, money that we built up, and money that we haven't spent, and I would love to give it to the American people as a very powerful stimulus. So, yes.
I think there is a theory that I could do it without having to go back, but I think it would be appropriate to go back and I would ask Congress to approve it. It's a very simple approval. It's -- literally, it's a one sentence approval, and the Democrats should do that, the Republicans will do that, they'd be glad to do that. So, we'll see whether or not they do it, OK? Please, in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Mr. President, our editor in chief, John Solomon, had an exclusive interview with the head of the Delaware Fraternal Order of Police chapter, he said that they were going to endorse you instead of their native son, Joe Biden. I'd like your response, as well as the national organization of Fraternal Order of Police is endorsing you as well.
[17:50:14]
TRUMP: Well, I'm honored that Delaware -- because I don't see Biden anywhere but Delaware, he's -- and I like Delaware too, but to have the law enforcement in Delaware give their endorsement to me is really a great honor. It's really -- it just shows you how pathetic the Democrats are when it comes to crime, when it comes to law and order.
So, would you please extend my very great thanks? It's a great honor to get it from Delaware law enforcement. We've gotten it from almost all law enforcement, but that's -- because every time I see Biden speak, it says Delaware, Delaware, Delaware. He never leaves. I'm all over the country, I'm all over the place.
Yes, please. Go ahead. Did you have -- yes, go ahead. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Mr. President. Germany has said that Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader, was poisoned. What do you think should be done to Russia about that? What is your message to Russia about that? And how should the international community and United States respond? TRUMP: Well, I think we have to look at it very seriously if that's the case, and I think we will. There's nobody been tougher on Russia than I have. We get along -- I get along with almost all countries. I get along with North Korea. Remember, we're supposed to be going to war with North Korea. If Hillary got elected, you'd be at war right now with North Korea. That would be a very messy war, a very bad war, many millions of people would be killed.
In the meantime, we've got along with them, we didn't get to war. Everyone said that if I was elected, I'd be at war in one week, it's been just the opposite. We're doing very well in Afghanistan, bringing the troops down very low level, and other things are happening very interestingly.
We have a great peace deal going on in the Middle East actually with UAE and Israel and that's been received like probably very few things that many people have done, it's been very well-received. And we'll be having other countries announcing soon they're joining that, and you're going to have a lot of countries in that. A lot of countries are saying, hey, why didn't you bring us in right from the beginning? They would have loved to have been there, but they want to be in.
So, we're doing a lot of things. I think that I was the one that alerted the United States and the world, Nord Stream 2, I said, why is Germany spending billions and billions of dollars to Russia to get their energy from Russia. And then we're supposed to protect Germany from Russia. What's that all about? And the sanctions and everything else.
At the same time, with Russia, we're right now negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation treaty, which is very important. It's a very important thing. To me, it's the most important thing. Some people say global warming. I don't. I say this is far more important. And we are the biggest, they are the second, biggest nuclear-wise.
China is third. They're actually a distant third, but they're building pretty rapidly. And, at some point, we'll include China into those talks, but we're doing very well with Russia on nuclear non- proliferation. So I don't know exactly what happened. I think it's tragic. It's terrible, it shouldn't happen. We haven't had any proof yet, but I will take a look.
It is interesting that everybody's always mentioning Russia. And I don't mind you mentioning Russia, but I think probably China, at this point, is a nation that you should be talking about much more so than Russia. Because the things that China is doing are far worse if you take a look at what's happening with the world. Look at what happened with the China virus. Look at what they did by not keeping that within the confines of China. They should've kept it in the confines of China.
Look what they've done to 188 countries all over the world. But you never ask about China. You're always asking about Russia. So I would be very angry if that's the case. So we'll take a look at the numbers and the documents, because we're going to be sent a lot of documents over the next few days. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President?
TRUMP: Please, in the back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President. During the conventions -- thank you. During the conventions, Kimberly and Don Jr. had the outreach to the Indian Americans community with a video called for more years for you, which has gone viral among the Indian Americans in the battleground states. So my question is, would Kimberly, Don Jr., and Ivanka Trump, who are very popular among Indian Americans, would be campaigning on your behalf your behalf among the Indian Americans interview (INAUDIBLE) relationship?
TRUMP: Well, I didn't understand everything you said. I know India, and I understood those young people that you mentioned. They're very good young people.
[17:55:00]
And I know their relationship to India is very good, and so is mine. And Prime Minister Modi is a friend of mine and he's doing a very good job. Nothing easy, nothing easy, but he's doing a very good job. We're talking -- I mean, while we're at it, we're talking about China and India, pretty going at it pretty good on the border as you know. It's been very nasty. It's been a very nasty situation.
And we stand ready to help with respect to China and India. If we can do anything, we would love to get involved and help. And we are talking to both countries about that. But I appreciate your nice sentiments. They think a lot of India, and so do I, and I think a lot of your prime minister. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, my question was about Indian Americans. Do you think they are voting for you? Are they supporting you --
TRUMP: I do. We had an event in Houston as you know, and it was a fantastic event. I was invited by Prime Minister Modi, and this was a massive -- this was at the -- where they play football, the Houston football team. And it was incredible. It was actually incredible. And the prime minister could not have been more generous.
We have great support from India. We have great support from Prime Minister Modi, and I would think that the people -- Indian people would be voting for Trump. I also, as you know, went to India just prior to the pandemic setting in, because India has been hit very hard. Left, really, about a week before that. And we had an incredible time.
What we saw -- the people are so incredible. It's really an incredible place and incredible country, and it's definitely big. It's definitely big. But you've got a great leader and he's a great person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Do you think China is bullying India? TRUMP: I hope not. I hope not, but they're certainly going at it. They're going at it much more strongly than a lot of people even understand. Yes, please go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir.
TRUMP: Go ahead, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Just to follow up on Alexie Navalny. You just said you haven't had any proof yet. Do you have any reasons to doubt the results from Germany?
TRUMP: No, I don't. I mean, I don't. I hear Germany has made of, was it definitive, or almost definitive, but we have not seen it ourselves, no. But we have not seen it ourselves, but I would certainly be OK with that. They want to do something. They want to take action.
Shouldn't happen, shouldn't happen, but, again, we are working very closely with a lot of countries and a lot of different things. We've taken stronger action against Russia than any other country in the world, as you know. I'll tell you, President Putin would tell you that right now. But the fact that I get along with Russia and that I get along, frankly, with everybody right now -- I'm not getting along with China, but that's my choice. I don't like what happened with respect to the pandemic, with respect to the China virus, I don't like it at all.
What they've done to this world and this country and Europe and every place else is terrible. But I do get along with President Putin, but I've been tougher on Russia than anybody else by far. If you look at the Obama administration, they were weak. Look at the land they gave up. Look at what happened with respect to Ukraine. Such a big part of Ukraine given up during the Obama administration. And I don't think they would have done that with me. I don't think they would've done that with me at all.
We gave tank busters and they gave pillows. Do you ever hear that expression? They sent pillows and we sent tank busters to Ukraine. So -- But with that being said, if we can do a nuclear non-proliferation agreement, that would be a great thing. No, but I would not be at all happy if that were the case. And it looks like it might very well be the case. I mean, based on what Germany is saying, that seems to be the case. John?
JOHN: Mr. President, I just want to ask you about something you said a while back that's been talked about many, many times. Back in 2015, you said that you didn't think John McCain was a hero, that you prefer people who don't get captured. But in light of all that's happened since then and all you've learned, do you regret saying that? Is that something you wish you had not said?
TRUMP: I say what I say, and I never got along with John McCain. I disagreed with John McCain. You know that better than anybody, frankly. I wasn't a fan. I disagreed with many of his views. I disagreed with his views on these ridiculous, endless wars. I disagreed with the way he handled the vets, the V.A. The V.A. is running much better now, and we did with the MISSION Act and the accountability and all the things we've done for the V.A. He was not able to do that.
But I disagreed with John McCain on a lot of things. That doesn't mean I don't respect him. I respected him, but I really disagreed with him on a lot of things, and I think I was right.
